[04:56] <bmg505> good morning
[04:56] <bmg505> what meeting?
[04:59] <roryy> morning
[04:59] <roryy> i think Kilos wanted to have a monthly meeting of some sort
[04:59] <roryy> i guess ubuntu-za loco meeting? no idea
[05:01] <bmg505> looks like it
[06:03] <inetpro> hmm... 
[06:04]  * inetpro missed another meeting
[06:06] <inetpro> good morning everyone
[06:09] <Kilos> morning guys
[06:09] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[06:09]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[06:12] <inetpro> morning Kilos 
[06:12] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[06:12] <Maaz> inetpro: Okay
[06:12] <Kilos> hiya inetpro 
[06:12] <inetpro> hoe gaan dinge vanmore
[06:13] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and inetpro!
[06:13] <inetpro> Maaz: baie dankie
[06:13] <Maaz> Plesier inetpro
[06:13] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[06:13] <Maaz> Enjoy Kilos
[06:31] <Kilos> als reg dankie behalwe kop wat klap. hoe gaan dinge met jou
[07:03] <superfly> morning everyone
[07:37] <inetpro> morning superfly
[07:37] <inetpro> Kilos: geen klagtes nie
[07:37] <Kilos> mooi man
[07:39] <Kilos> hiya superfly 
[07:51] <Kilos> bbl
[07:51] <Kilos> have a good day guys
[13:17] <nuvolari> o/
[13:17] <nuvolari> everyone still alive and kicking?
[13:18] <superfly> nuvolari: very much so
[14:39] <zeref> ummmm
[15:37] <zeref> mysql: Y U NO sort column
[16:57] <zeref> hurrrmmm
[17:10] <zeref> any mysql fundie here?
[17:13] <Mezenir> #mysql :)
[17:14] <superfly> zeref: I know it a little
[17:15] <zeref> oh, sorted. was try to clear data off a table and reset the primary key
[17:21] <stevegza> hi all - is there an ubuntu-za monthly meeting scheduled for today, if so, what time? TX
[17:22] <zeref> o0
[17:22] <zeref> 24hrs late :-)
[17:28] <Mezenir> this irc server isnt advertised enough
[17:28] <Mezenir> i stumbled upon it by accident
[17:29] <Mezenir> everything is here
[17:29] <Mezenir> gnu
[17:29] <Mezenir> fsf
[17:29] <Mezenir> ok i may have contradicted myself
[17:29] <Mezenir> but still
[17:29] <Mezenir> never realised everything was on the same server
[17:32] <superfly> stevegza: sorry, we had an impromptu meeting last night
[17:32] <superfly> stevegza: the next one should be around the 16th of January
[17:33] <stevegza> cool - no probs. thanks for the update. I'll look out for the next meet
[17:35] <superfly> stevegza: we usually try to post it on the mailing list
[17:45] <Mezenir> so where are those meetings usually held ?
[17:49] <Squirm> evening
[17:55] <superfly> Mezenir: in here
[17:55] <superfly> hi Squirm
[18:01] <rossouwap> hello, does anyone here dabble with python?
[18:02] <rossouwap> I'm getting started and looking for an IDE - or recommendations on how to use existing Ubuntu applications for python
[18:03] <rossouwap> people have recommended eclipse - but that looks a little big for me at the moment
[18:04] <superfly> rossouwap: I do
[18:05] <superfly> rossouwap: you can always use VIM or gedit
[18:05] <superfly> (I don't use Gnome, so I'm not too sure if gedit has plugins or what)
[18:05] <rossouwap> thanks superfly - i'm using gedit at the moment with a few plugins - also Wing IDE (the book i'm working through has some examples that use it)
[18:06] <superfly> rossouwap: I use Eric, but that's a PyQt4 app so it'll load in Qt4, and it takes a little getting used to
[18:07] <rossouwap> superfly, may I ask why you chose Eric? Perhaps your reasoning may help a noob like me ;)
[18:08] <superfly> rossouwap: cause I'm developing a PyQt4 app :-)
[18:08] <superfly> it does have some cool features, but it doesn't have advanced autocompletion like Eclipse
[18:08] <superfly> you can enhance it though
[18:08] <rossouwap> ok
[18:09] <Mezenir> so superfly did you receive official tersiary education relating to open source softare
[18:09] <Mezenir> ware
[18:09] <Mezenir> or are you just learning as you go
[18:09] <rossouwap> I'm presuming you've had experience with eclipse then?
[18:10] <inetpro> Mezenir: welcome to #ubuntu-za
[18:11] <inetpro> good evening everyone
[18:11] <Mezenir> rossouowap: might as well learn eclipse, its good for many languages ... i use it for java at work, dont think youll regret it
[18:11] <Mezenir> and you dont need to use all the features on day 1
[18:11] <Mezenir> het inetpro
[18:11] <Mezenir> thanks
[18:11] <Mezenir> hey*
[18:11] <rossouwap> ok, thanks Mezenir :)
[18:12] <inetpro> Mezenir: and where are from if I may ask?
[18:12] <Mezenir> i stay in cape town
[18:12] <Mezenir> working as a java programmer
[18:12] <inetpro> hmm... another Capetonian
[18:12] <Mezenir> but im also a linux fan
[18:12] <Mezenir> learning oss as i go
[18:13] <inetpro> plenty of them around here
[18:13] <Mezenir> how about you ?
[18:13]  * inetpro is from Pretoria
[18:13] <Mezenir> i was born in pretoria, for what its worth
[18:13] <Mezenir> parents moved here when i was 10
[18:14] <Mezenir> so what do you do
[18:14] <inetpro> sysadmin, jack of all trades
[18:14] <inetpro> anything *nix
[18:14] <Mezenir> cool
[18:15] <Mezenir> you ever dabble with forensics ?
[18:15] <Mezenir> in the computer sense ?
[18:15] <Mezenir> seems like an interesting career
[18:15] <superfly> Mezenir: nope, my tertiary education was all microsoft
[18:15] <Mezenir> if a bit stressful
[18:15] <rossouwap> got me thinking of csi there for a moment
[18:15] <superfly> Mezenir: I taught myself python
[18:16] <rossouwap> superfly, that's interesting
[18:16] <Mezenir> cool
[18:16] <superfly> rossouwap: I've used Eclipse a little, it's not bad
[18:16] <rossouwap> i went to the local university for some guidance, and all they wanted to teach me was .net
[18:16] <Mezenir> so are you still a microsoft fan superfly ?
[18:16] <inetpro> eish
[18:16] <superfly> I went to university before .NET existed ;-)
[18:16] <rossouwap> lol :)
[18:17] <superfly> Mezenir: I don't have a single Microsoft application running in my household - that should tell you
[18:17] <rossouwap> funny how that turns out in the end...
[18:17] <Mezenir> haha
[18:17] <Mezenir> bad course then ? ;)
[18:17] <rossouwap> I've got a bucket load of Microsoft certificates and I'm trying my hardest not to touch it :)
[18:17] <Mezenir> bad lecturers maybe
[18:18] <Mezenir> thats the thing
[18:18] <rossouwap> think a combo of both - and what the local market says they want
[18:18] <superfly> Mezenir: no, it was good, taught folks a lot about programming (though I had been programming for years already)
[18:18] <Mezenir> microsoft changes its mind every few years
[18:18] <inetpro> Mezenir: we don't talk about that thing in here
[18:18] <Mezenir> had a colleague at my previous job
[18:18] <Mezenir> he was a vb6 developer
[18:18] <Mezenir> and now his skills are obsolete
[18:19]  * inetpro wonders where kilos is hiding this evening
[18:19] <Mezenir> on the other hand
[18:19] <Mezenir> as a programmer you need to keep up
[18:19] <rossouwap> Mezenir - try being in the hardware infrastructure business
[18:20] <rossouwap> we just did a stock take and clear out of equipment at the office
[18:20] <rossouwap> about two skips full of horrible old hardware - that I'm totally certified to work on :D
[18:20] <rossouwap> just a pity nobody wants it anymore :(
[18:20] <Mezenir> what do you do on the hardware ?
[18:21] <Mezenir> embedded programming ?
[18:21] <rossouwap> nah - nothing as glamorous as that
[18:21] <Mezenir> yeah thats why i picked java seemed a safe microsoft alternative
[18:21] <Mezenir> thou im teaching myself a little c++ when i have time to spare
[18:21] <Mezenir> and im not watching supernatural :)
[18:21] <rossouwap> spend my life installing and maintaining vmware and the hardware it sits on
[18:22] <Mezenir> mm
[18:22] <Mezenir> for web servers ?
[18:23] <rossouwap> for everything
[18:23] <rossouwap> full infrastructure
[18:23] <Mezenir> how come you use vmware ?
[18:23] <Mezenir> im just curious about the thinking process
[18:23] <rossouwap> cause it was the first virtualisation platform that was stable (according to the company ;) )
[18:23] <Mezenir> haha ok
[18:23] <Mezenir> isnt vmware a microsoft thing ?
[18:24] <rossouwap> nope
[18:24] <rossouwap> vmware is a vmware thing :)
[18:24] <Mezenir> at least the server edition
[18:24] <rossouwap> owned by emc now
[18:24] <Mezenir> ok
[18:24] <Mezenir> i use virtualbox
[18:24] <Mezenir> for testing
[18:24] <rossouwap> that company we're not allowed to talk about has something else
[18:24] <rossouwap> ya, virtualbox runs
[18:24] <inetpro> hmm...  
[18:24] <rossouwap> lol, rocks
[18:24]  * inetpro just the following SMS: "MR FOUCHE Your arrear Lewis acc ###-####-# (R13436.97) now @ Oppermans for summons. Phone Vivienne 021-####### to avoid legal steps. Quote ref:S#####"
[18:25] <Mezenir> you need to use gnucash then
[18:25] <Mezenir> :>
[18:25] <inetpro> just got *
[18:25] <superfly> Mezenir: inetpro is not Mr Fouche
[18:26] <rossouwap> think someone made a typo with a cellphone number ;)
[18:26] <inetpro> a very bad typo that is
[18:26] <rossouwap> indeed
[18:27] <inetpro> wish I had so much money to spend at Lewis
[18:27] <inetpro> but I guess mr fouche doesn't have it either
[18:28] <Mezenir> it went into that very nice leather couch that ive been eyeing
[18:28] <Mezenir> rofl
[18:28] <Mezenir> nice
[18:29]  * inetpro needs a new 3G wireless modem
[18:30] <Mezenir> no man
[18:30] <Mezenir> adsl
[18:30] <Mezenir> axxess is a good isp
[18:30] <inetpro> no more Telkom lines here, all stolen
[18:30] <Mezenir> been using them for 8 months no
[18:30] <Mezenir> now
[18:30] <Mezenir> rofl
[18:30] <Mezenir> yes they should replace them with fibre optics :)
[18:30] <Mezenir> win win
[18:30] <Mezenir> you get super speed
[18:31] <Mezenir> and its not worth stealing
[18:31] <inetpro> my nice modem just packed up the other day
[18:31] <inetpro> doesn't seem to connect any more
[18:31] <inetpro> I tried with Vodacom, MTN and 8ta
[18:32] <inetpro> and Vodacom is still connecting with my K3570-Z
[18:32] <inetpro> lucky that I still have that
[18:33] <Mezenir> lol
[18:33] <inetpro> fibre optics would be super nice
[18:33] <Mezenir> cellc has those speed sticks
[18:33] <Mezenir> 5 gig a month
[18:33] <Mezenir> yeah fibre optics is the bomb
[18:33] <Mezenir> i hear australia is laying fibre optics to every household
[18:33] <inetpro> Mezenir: the cellc stick is useless in my area
[18:33] <Mezenir> lucky bastards
[18:33] <Mezenir> not sure what theyre going to do with it though
[18:33] <tumbleweed> telkom's 3g is even cheaper, if you have a telkom tower locally
[18:33] <Mezenir> really ?
[18:34] <Mezenir> in pta ?
[18:34] <inetpro> tumbleweed: you mean 8ta?
[18:34] <Mezenir> id expect cellphone service to be top notch there
[18:34] <tumbleweed> telkom is laying fibre, but to the kerbside distribution boxes, not to the home
[18:34] <tumbleweed> inetpro: yeah
[18:34] <inetpro> 8ta is also useless here
[18:35] <tumbleweed> 3g is getting cheap, but no way I'm leaving ADSL for it
[18:35] <Mezenir> turn off your radio jammer :P
[18:35] <inetpro> Vodacom is also bad but I can work with it, better than the others
[18:36] <inetpro> tumbleweed: enjoy it while you can
[18:36] <Mezenir> inetpro how come you dont have adsl lines
[18:36]  * inetpro hates the inconsistency of 3g
[18:36] <tumbleweed> inetpro: tie the modem to a very long pole :)
[18:36] <Mezenir> do you guys also have a wireless user group up there ? like ctwug
[18:37] <inetpro> tumbleweed: I guess I should do that
[18:37] <inetpro> Mezenir: yes ptawug but they are also far away from my home
[18:37] <Mezenir> geez man
[18:37] <Mezenir> where in pta do you stay
[18:37] <inetpro> and they don't allow internet 
[18:38] <inetpro> Mezenir: in the north
[18:38] <Mezenir> well you dont need as much internet if you have wug ;)
[18:38]  * inetpro live on the net
[18:38] <inetpro> lives*
[18:38] <Mezenir> browsing ?\
[18:38] <Mezenir> probably more browsing than downloading
[18:38]  * tumbleweed needs a lot of internet
[18:39] <inetpro> Mezenir: yep and chatting to you :-)
[18:39] <Mezenir> yeah
[18:39] <tumbleweed> I've always meant to connect to ctwug, though...
[18:39] <Mezenir> thats not a lot of bandwidth thou
[18:39] <Mezenir> i dont have line of sight to ctwug :(
[18:39] <Mezenir> thou im surrounded by high sites
[18:39] <Mezenir> lol
[18:41] <inetpro> Mezenir: Telkom refused to install cables after they were stolen more than once
[18:41] <Mezenir> haha
[18:41] <Mezenir> thats harsh
[18:41] <inetpro> serious
[18:42] <Mezenir> i believe you
[18:42] <Mezenir> its ridiculous
[18:42] <Mezenir> but you cant stop it
[18:42] <Mezenir> without fibre optics :)
[18:42] <inetpro> they even stole my power lines and my water meter
[18:42] <Mezenir> fibre optics isnt worth much melted down
[18:43] <Mezenir> wow
[18:43] <Mezenir> thats audacity
[18:43] <Mezenir> how do you steal a power line
[18:43] <inetpro> these guys are very desparate for copper
[18:43] <Mezenir> you live on a farm or something ?
[18:43] <inetpro> a plot
[18:43] <Mezenir> mmm
[18:44] <Mezenir> do you farm ?
[18:44] <inetpro> Mezenir: I wish I had more time for that 
[18:44] <Mezenir> i duno hey
[18:44] <Mezenir> its a bit isolated for my taste
[18:44] <inetpro> but my place is just to small for that anyway
[18:45] <Mezenir> why not live in the city ?
[18:45] <inetpro> eish... VC lagging badly again
[18:46]  * inetpro enjoys living on the plot
[18:46] <inetpro> grew up on the farm in KZN
[18:46] <Mezenir> thats a good reason i guess
[18:46] <inetpro> have my chickens and a nice garden
[18:46] <Mezenir> im surprised you care about the internet then
[18:46] <inetpro> and some bees that I'm neglecting
[18:47] <inetpro> heh
[18:52] <inetpro> I wish my place was big enough for a horse or three
[18:52]  * inetpro just remembered the days on the farm
[18:52] <inetpro> many years ago
[18:53] <inetpro> I once had 30 wild horses running around my dads big farm
[18:53] <roryy> evening all
[18:53] <inetpro> good evening roryy
[18:53] <inetpro> welcome to #ubuntu-za
[18:56] <roryy> thanks
[18:57] <inetpro> roryy: is it your first time here?
[18:58] <roryy> nope :)
[18:58] <inetpro> or was I being ignorant again
[18:58] <inetpro> :-)
[18:58] <roryy> but i haven't been around for a year or so
[18:58] <inetpro> ahh
[18:59] <inetpro> wb
[18:59] <roryy> ty
[19:00] <inetpro> Mezenir: why so quiet now?
[19:00] <inetpro> you guys should come back more often anyway
[19:01] <inetpro> it's time for this place to come alive again
[19:01] <inetpro> kilos will be so happy
[19:02] <Mezenir> sorry
[19:02] <Mezenir> been chatting in fsf
[19:03] <inetpro> superfly: BTW, you won't believe it but I'm still running Ubuntu Oneiric with Unity
[19:03] <inetpro> Mezenir: ahh
[19:03]  * rossouwap goes to get some coffee
[19:03] <Mezenir> this irc server rocks
[19:04] <inetpro> Mezenir: you mean this network
[19:04] <inetpro> freenode
[19:04] <Mezenir> yes
[19:04] <inetpro> freenode is massive
[19:04] <Mezenir> collection of servers
[19:04] <Mezenir> i suppose
[19:05] <inetpro> this is the place for all serious FLOSS related stuffs
[19:05] <Mezenir> how do you relate to that ?
[19:06] <inetpro> Mezenir: what do you mean by that?
[19:06] <Mezenir> what is your job
[19:06] <Mezenir> how do you relate to FLOSS
[19:06]  * inetpro uses Ubuntu since the first beta
[19:06] <Mezenir> interesting
[19:07] <Mezenir> i only started using linux about 3 years ago
[19:07]  * inetpro looks after multiple *nix servers
[19:07] <Mezenir> cool
[19:08] <inetpro> FreeBSD, Solaris, Ubuntu, even RedHat
[19:08] <Mezenir> howd you get into that
[19:08] <Mezenir> if you dont mind my asking
[19:08] <rossouwap> AIX?
[19:08] <inetpro> hmm... time
[19:08] <inetpro> rossouwap: nope
[19:09] <rossouwap> inetpro: :) we got some legends at the office who used to do aix and solaris
[19:09] <Mezenir> time
[19:09]  * inetpro tries to limit it to just a few of them
[19:09] <rossouwap> man i wish i could suck information from their brains
[19:09] <Mezenir> well time can take you many places
[19:09] <Mezenir> open source isnt always one of theme
[19:10] <inetpro> Mezenir: you start by putting your web server software on something more stable
[19:11] <Kilos> hi superfly and others
[19:11] <Kilos> hi Mezenir 
[19:11] <inetpro> and then you expand with mail gateways, dns, proxy, etc
[19:11] <superfly> hi Kilos
[19:11] <Mezenir> hey kilos
[19:11] <Kilos> lo pro
[19:11] <Mezenir> yeah
[19:11] <inetpro> Kilos: wb
[19:11] <Mezenir> rome wasnt built in a day
[19:11] <Kilos> ty
[19:11] <inetpro> Mezenir: for sure
[19:12] <inetpro> Kilos: say hi to our new members
[19:12] <Kilos> i have said hi to Mezenir 
[19:12] <Kilos> dont see any other new guys
[19:12] <inetpro> oops, sorry
[19:13] <Kilos> members or visitors??
[19:13] <Kilos> wakey wakey
[19:13] <inetpro> hmm... I guess Mezenir is enjoying this and will stick around
[19:13] <Mezenir> good guess
[19:13] <inetpro> and then roryy seems to have come back after some absence
[19:14] <Kilos> my offline time has allowed me to work out how to overclock my 1.7g cpu to just over 2g
[19:14] <inetpro> :-)
[19:14] <Mezenir> thou ill prolly disappear between christmas and new years ;)
[19:14] <Kilos> as long as you come back in the new year thats great Mezenir 
[19:14] <inetpro> Mezenir: are you running on Ubuntu yet?
[19:15] <Mezenir> i dual boot windoze for games and kubuntu 10.4
[19:15] <Mezenir> havent upgraded to 10.10 yet
[19:15] <Mezenir> 11.4
[19:15] <Mezenir> my bad
[19:15] <inetpro> ahh, another KDE dude, that's cool
[19:15] <rossouwap> rofl
[19:15] <Mezenir> i lose years sometime :P
[19:15] <Kilos> 11.10
[19:15] <Kerbero> lol
[19:16] <rossouwap> everyone (other than the kde fella's) running Unity?
[19:16] <Kilos> 12.04 out in 4 months and a bit
[19:16] <Kilos> lo Kerbero 
[19:16] <roryy> i'm on 10.04 still
[19:16] <Kerbero> lo kilos
[19:16] <Kilos> no
[19:16] <Kilos> gnome here
[19:16] <roryy> upgrading is always a huge pita
[19:16] <Mezenir> how do you like unity ?
[19:16] <Kilos> maverick here
[19:16] <Kerbero> upgrading from 11.04 to 11.10 always fails
[19:16] <rossouwap> roryy: indeed
[19:16] <Mezenir> i briefly used it on my laptop once
[19:17] <Mezenir> Kerbero: yes i read that
[19:17] <rossouwap> i've become more of a fan of the shell
[19:17] <Mezenir> and im not in the mood for a clean install
[19:17] <inetpro> rossouwap: I must say I'm quite impressed with the latest Unity although I will probably return to Kubuntu
[19:18] <rossouwap> last time i tried KDE was back on 8.04 :S
[19:18] <Mezenir> i guess theres not much chance ubuntu will convert to a rolling release
[19:19] <inetpro> Mezenir: a rolling release, why?
[19:19] <Mezenir> so i dont need to reinstall every 6 months
[19:19] <inetpro> things are already changing way to fast for me
[19:19] <Mezenir> ive had issues with upgrading
[19:20] <superfly> Mezenir: I've never encountered issues that were unfixable when upgrading
[19:20] <Mezenir> so i prefer a clean install
[19:20] <Mezenir> mebe
[19:20]  * inetpro just keeps data separated from system to make life easier
[19:20] <superfly> even a guy who rebooted his machine halfway through the process, and ended up with a borked kernel
[19:20] <Mezenir> do you guys use the encrypted home partition ?
[19:21] <Kerbero> nope
[19:21] <inetpro> Mezenir: I tried that once but basically gave up
[19:21] <Mezenir> i found mounting other partitions under my home directory with that didnt fly so well
[19:21] <Kilos> nope
[19:21] <inetpro> makes things to complicated
[19:21] <Mezenir> so i mounted them under /mnt instead
[19:21] <inetpro> the idea is good though
[19:22] <rossouwap> i keep /home on a separate partition too
[19:22] <Mezenir> yes separate partitions are good
[19:22] <Mezenir> i have 2 oses
[19:22] <Mezenir> sharing a data partition
[19:22] <rossouwap> just before re-install I run dpkg --get-selections | grep -v deinstall
[19:22] <Mezenir> but each os has its own home
[19:22] <rossouwap> and rename my username folder
[19:23] <rossouwap> re-install, put applications back, and move my homedir back to where it belongs
[19:23] <Kilos> rossouwap, what does that command do?
[19:23] <rossouwap> Kilos: lists all the installed applications
[19:23] <inetpro> rossouwap: nice idea
[19:23] <Kilos> ah ty i will save it
[19:24] <rossouwap> usually pipe it to a text file
[19:24] <Mezenir> cool
[19:24] <rossouwap> interesting, had a customer who did the right thing and kept /boot / /home and /var separate
[19:25] <rossouwap> to forget to move his mysql data files from /var
[19:25] <inetpro> eish
[19:25] <rossouwap> now he's got a massive /home and 99% utilisation on /var
[19:25] <inetpro> easy to fix that
[19:26] <rossouwap> indeed - when i can get some downtime ;)
[19:26] <inetpro> with soft links
[19:27] <Kilos> what does it matter if you put / or /boot first
[19:27] <Kilos> in gparted it has / first
[19:27] <Kilos> so thats how i did it
[19:28] <Kilos> does it matter
[19:28] <rossouwap> you want a theoretical answer?
[19:28] <inetpro> Kilos: it doesn't matter as long as you have a / somewhere
[19:28] <Mezenir> i dont think it does
[19:28] <Mezenir> if youre worried about it confusing partitions
[19:28] <Mezenir> use uuids in fstab
[19:28] <Kilos> i just follow the partition tool
[19:28] <Mezenir> thou i think thats the default
[19:28] <Mezenir> in newer ubuntus
[19:28] <rossouwap> depending on the disk speed and IO - it does matter where the partitions sit, whether on the inside or outside
[19:29] <rossouwap> but for home machines - np
[19:29] <inetpro> Kilos: ^^ that
[19:29] <Kilos> and /swap right after / and /boot
[19:30]  * Kilos thinks it a bit quicker with /swap near start of drive
[19:30] <inetpro> I think the difference will be insignificant
[19:30] <inetpro> but perhaps I'm wrong
[19:30] <Kilos> you have a fast pc inetpro 
[19:30] <rossouwap> with modern home systems, it's negligible
[19:30] <inetpro> Kilos: ahh, right
[19:30] <Kilos> with lotsa ram
[19:31] <Mezenir> rossouwap: please explain why it makes a difference ?
[19:31] <inetpro> hmm... time to go dig into the old documentation
[19:31] <rossouwap> all comes down to seek time, and how much the disk needs to work to get the data
[19:31] <Mezenir> im not sure myself
[19:32] <rossouwap> if you doing lots IO, you want to minimise the seek time
[19:32] <inetpro> perhaps this doc explains it? http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Partition/
[19:32] <Mezenir> interesting
[19:32] <Kilos> inetpro, is that wget able
[19:32] <rossouwap> often system bottlenecks are on the disk
[19:32] <inetpro> Kilos: it should be
[19:32] <Kilos> i try
[19:33] <Kilos> ty
[19:33] <inetpro> but hang on
[19:33] <rossouwap> had another customer with a production db on a mirrored SATA set
[19:33] <Mezenir> why wget able ?
[19:33] <rossouwap> ...was fun seeing the performance difference after moving to fibre connected SAS
[19:33] <Kilos> lol data saver
[19:33] <Mezenir> i recently read an article on richard stallman
[19:33] <Mezenir> he also prefers wget
[19:34] <Mezenir> as opposed to direct browsing
[19:34] <Mezenir> though im not sure why
[19:34] <Kilos> going to sites eats data
[19:34] <Mezenir> mmm
[19:34] <Mezenir> i think he was trying to avoid sites with like buttons
[19:34] <Mezenir> for facebook
[19:35] <Kilos> facebook eats 10m data here before i even say hello to anyone
[19:35] <Mezenir> im guessing youre also on wireless kilos ?
[19:35] <Kilos> yeah
[19:35] <Mezenir> makes sense
[19:35] <Kilos> nobroadband
[19:35] <Mezenir> leme guess
[19:36] <Mezenir> you live on a plot ? :)
[19:36] <Kilos> yeah
[19:36] <Kilos> you been there done that?
[19:36] <Mezenir> haha
[19:36] <Kilos> lol
[19:36] <Mezenir> no
[19:36] <Mezenir> ive just spoken to inetpro
[19:36] <Mezenir> lol
[19:36] <Mezenir> you guys live together ?
[19:37] <inetpro> Mezenir: nope
[19:37] <Kilos> before we could get adsl over head wires were stolen every 2 weeks or so till telcom refused to replace them'
[19:37] <inetpro> Mezenir: Pretoria has many plots
[19:37] <Kilos> i at least get a better signal than inetpro 
[19:38] <Kilos> can see my tower from bedroom window
[19:38] <Kilos> he battles even when standing on his roof
[19:38] <Kilos> we must be 30ks apart or more
[19:38] <Mezenir> haha
[19:38] <inetpro> Kilos: I'm trying to find a single file for that but struggling
[19:38] <rossouwap> firefox + noscript + adblock = happy :)
[19:38] <Mezenir> just thought it was a coincidence
[19:39] <Kilos> for what inetpro ?
[19:39] <inetpro> Kilos: that document has many HTML files
[19:39] <Kilos> oh
[19:39] <Kilos> dont worry man
[19:39] <Kilos> i seem to have mastered partitioning with clean installs
[19:40] <Kilos> and rsync has been a good friend
[19:40] <inetpro> but I guess you could wget it with the mirroring option 
[19:40] <Kilos> whats that?
[19:40] <Mezenir> yeah rossouwap i agree
[19:40] <Mezenir> but im worried about firefox's future funding
[19:40] <inetpro> Kilos: wget is very clever
[19:40] <Mezenir> since 80 % came from google
[19:40] <inetpro> can spider through a site and get all files
[19:41] <Mezenir> and google has its own browser now
[19:41] <Kilos> i like it and only uses a few kB everytime
[19:41] <inetpro> but it's not something I would recommend to the uninitiated
[19:41] <rossouwap> Mezenir - too many people have invested in firefox to see it go
[19:41] <rossouwap> all of the HP install tools have firefox underneath
[19:41] <rossouwap> as an example
[19:41]  * Kilos uses epiphany
[19:42] <Kilos> much faster than ff
[19:42] <rossouwap> Kilos - i do agree
[19:42] <rossouwap> but no noscript :(
[19:42] <inetpro> Mezenir: Firefox is here to stay
[19:43] <Kilos> yeah
[19:43] <Mezenir> well inetpro theres only one way to become initiated in wget :>
[19:43] <Mezenir> man pages are fun
[19:43] <Kilos> also epiphany likes opening a new window everytime
[19:43] <inetpro> Mozilla is a very stable and well run non-profi organisation
[19:43] <inetpro> non-profit*
[19:43] <rossouwap> Kilo's, have you played with the epiphany app tab yet?
[19:44] <inetpro> Mezenir: I agree
[19:44] <rossouwap> (don't know which version you have installed)
[19:44] <Kilos> where is the app tab?
[19:45] <Mezenir> im by no means an expert in wget
[19:45] <Kilos> whatever comes with maverick
[19:45] <Mezenir> but ive found the -c flag very useful
[19:45] <Mezenir> for large files
[19:45] <Kilos> wget rocks if you just want the text and quickly
[19:45] <Mezenir> where firefox would sometimes say download complete on a poor connection
[19:45] <Mezenir> even though that was not the case
[19:46] <Mezenir> have any of you experienced that ?
[19:47]  * inetpro is very happy with firefox + noscript + adblock 
[19:47] <inetpro> but Mezenir I don't count every byte as much as Kilos
[19:48] <inetpro> as a retired citizen he has no income like you and me
[19:48] <superfly> Mezenir: -i
[19:48] <rossouwap> sorry Kilos, stepped away for a moment
[19:49] <Mezenir> lol
[19:49] <Mezenir> -i ?
[19:49] <rossouwap> latest builds have the app tab
[19:49] <Mezenir> oh
[19:49] <Kilos> np
[19:49] <superfly> Mezenir: download all the links in the file
[19:49] <Mezenir> input file
[19:49] <Kilos> my tab shows nothing , most likely because of blank page
[19:49] <Mezenir> i see
[19:50] <inetpro> Kilos: with all the chit-chat of this evening I guess you will have to watch your data
[19:50] <Kilos> lol
[19:50] <Kilos> was just thinking of going to bath and bed inetpro 
[19:50] <Mezenir> kilos are you retired ?
[19:51] <Kilos> i've been very good, kept to 1m a day
[19:51] <Kilos> yeah
[19:51] <inetpro> wow
[19:51] <Kilos> inna way
[19:51] <Kilos> disabled retired
[19:51] <Kilos> but then you see i am ofline most of the time
[19:52] <inetpro> which reminds me, I need to setup my vnstat again
[19:52] <Kilos> try come say morning and night
[19:52] <Mezenir> sorry to hear that
[19:52] <Kilos> np
[19:53] <Kilos> anway guys thanks for a good evening
[19:53] <Mezenir> what line of work were you in
[19:53] <Kilos> oh
[19:53] <Kilos> diesel mechanic and farmer
[19:53] <superfly> Mezenir: Kilos had an accident and the government has refused to pay him disability compensation
[19:53] <Mezenir> sjo
[19:53] <Kilos> ty superfly 
[19:53] <superfly> Kilos: :-)
[19:54] <inetpro> Mezenir: but it is a long and interesting story
[19:54] <roryy> night all
[19:54] <inetpro> for another day
[19:54] <Mezenir> ok
[19:54] <inetpro> roryy: good night
[19:54] <Kilos> night roryy 
[19:54] <Mezenir> see you around kilos
[19:54] <Kilos> night guys sleep tight
[19:54] <inetpro> Kilos: good night
[19:58] <Mezenir> 3 more days till holiday
[19:58] <Mezenir> longest week ever :)
[20:04] <rossouwap> 3 days to 3 weeks holiday \0/
[20:10] <inetpro> for me the time flies way to quickly
[20:10] <inetpro> time for me to say good night
[20:11] <superfly> hrm, time for me to pack up too
[20:12] <Kerbero> hmm
[20:13] <Kerbero> maar dis nog vroeg
[20:13] <Kerbero> 21:13
[20:14] <inetpro> Kerbero: 22:13
[20:14] <Mezenir> hehe
[20:14] <Mezenir> 3 weeks
[20:14] <Mezenir> lucky you
[20:14] <Mezenir> i dont have that much in total :(
[20:14] <Mezenir> but i prefer to have one long weekend each month
[20:14] <Mezenir> so thats probably why :)
[20:14] <rossouwap> try working at the same place for 8+ years
[20:15] <rossouwap> after a while you have more days owed to you than you know what to do with
[20:15] <rossouwap> i have to take days every month or I lose them, and throw in a week every few months
[20:20]  * rossouwap calls it a night
[20:20] <rossouwap> cheers
[20:20] <Mezenir> cheerio
[20:20] <Mezenir> enjoy
[21:22] <kierend> anyone interested in the shuttleworth lab, a bunch of us are installing new hardware on thursday evening.  attack me for details, or just rock up at 6 to help if you feel like being nice
[21:56] <Barco> I have a weird 3G problem, My adsl is down unexpectantly. Was able to connect via 3g some months ago. Now it seems although it connects dns does not resolve i.e. no internet available on the browser. 
[21:56] <Barco> Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
[22:03] <tumbleweed> Barco: try leaving the dongle plugged in a while before connecting (a minute or two)
[22:04] <tumbleweed> lots of them are buggy and give bogus DNS to the machine, if they don't know what the DNS servers are, yet
[22:07] <Barco> I've tried quite a few things. By now I have 3x dongles here. None Connect. Have tried to edit resolv.conf for the ppp connection in \etc as well as the general resolv.conf which points to my adsl router. 
[22:08] <Barco> Problem is that I'm locked out of the main resolv.conf even if I try and edit via sudo
[22:09] <tumbleweed> Barco: why does it point at your ADSL router? are you also plugged into the LAN?
[22:10] <tumbleweed> you should be able to edit it as root, don't know why you are having trouble doing so
[22:10] <tumbleweed> ifyou're seeing your adsl router in resolv.conf, that's not the issue I was describing
[22:10] <Barco> Usually yes, but I have unplugged the machine from the network. 
[22:11] <Barco> I've even logged into the file manager as root in addition to editing via sudo in cmd line. File is locked and I am not permitted to edit it's permissions with root password.
[22:12] <Barco> I've used Chmod & Chown cmds and Gui after loggin into file man as root. 
[22:12] <tumbleweed> don't chown it, it should belong to root
[22:13] <tumbleweed> and it usually has 644 as the permission bits
[22:13] <Barco> Right now I'd nuke it to get connected to the net. ;)
[22:14] <tumbleweed> what are the current permissions on it?
[22:14] <tumbleweed> ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
[22:15] <Barco> One moment...
[22:15] <Barco> -rw -r -r-- 1 root root 56
[22:15] <tumbleweed> that looks right
[22:16] <tumbleweed> lsattr /etc/resolv.conf
[22:16] <Barco> I used sudo gedit /etc/resolv.conf to edit - is that right?
[22:16] <tumbleweed> that should work
[22:17] <Barco> -------------i------------------------------e-
[22:17] <Barco> opens the file read only
[22:17] <Barco> which is wrong according to my experience
[22:19] <Barco> have you ever seen something like this?
[22:19] <tumbleweed> there you go, it's immutable
[22:19] <tumbleweed> chattr -i /etc/resolv.conf
[22:26] <Barco> chatter? never seen that before. But it unlocked the file! Thank you!!!
[22:30] <Barco> IT Works!!! Thanks a million Tumbleweed. Will look up Chattr.
[22:32] <tumbleweed> np