[07:18] hey i have a question if i want to become an ubuntu member i need to put my self on the wiki and wait for next month? [07:32] TiMiDo, they have meeting regularly. There is a link that says it all, however you need a wiki. do you already have one? [07:33] also, I'd say this channel is not really gonna give you many quick answers here. its a official channel for meetings. [07:33] i already have one [07:33] this is my wiki [07:33] pm it to me [07:33] ill look at it for you [07:35] ok thank you === doko_ is now known as doko === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === yofel_ is now known as yofel === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [16:57] hello [17:00] hiyas alourie :) [17:00] hi phillw [17:01] washat the meeting is happening as planned [17:01] hi [17:01] I am ready [17:02] #startmeeting QA Meeting [17:02] Meeting started Wed Dec 21 17:02:01 2011 UTC. The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [17:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: [17:02] who is with us today? [17:02] o/ [17:02] I am [17:02] o/ [17:02] I'll try to ping roignac [17:02] ok, it sounds like we have many people already on holidays [17:03] let's get started then [17:03] #topic Previous Actions === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Previous Actions [17:03] we had an action on patrick but he is not available today, so I will postpone it again! [17:04] #action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins [17:04] ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins [17:04] ACTION: gema to talk to hggdh about some jenkins training for the community [17:04] I spoke to hggdh and he has organised a training session in one developer event that is happening past mid January [17:04] I have asked him to send an email to the list but he was going on holidays, so I guess that'll happen next year [17:05] ACTION: gema to move the standard sru testing blueprint to the end [17:05] yea!! [17:05] I did that on the agenda [17:05] anything I am missing, anyone? [17:06] if we could contribute to anything jenkins oriented, would be great [17:06] yep, let me get to that later [17:06] k [17:06] #topic Blueprints Update Precise === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Blueprints Update Precise [17:06] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-builds-smoke-testing [17:06] I have started reviewing the code of our ISO smoke tests and will have some feedback early in January. [17:07] I am not sure who to send the feedback to, but will figure it out [17:07] o/ [17:07] alourie: go ahead [17:07] I think that generic stuff like that should go to the list anyway [17:08] s/list/maillist [17:08] yes, I can copy the list about it, but I don't know who is responsible to fix it [17:08] and then other channels if necessary [17:08] .. [17:08] ah [17:08] ok [17:08] I will definitely copy ubuntu-qa whenever I send it [17:08] great [17:08] thank you [17:08] no problem [17:09] o/ [17:09] roignac: go ahead [17:09] you should also include ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev@lists.launchpad.net [17:09] this is a maillist of Ubuntu Server Iso Testing Developers [17:09] ahh, so those are the people responsible for it, you reckon? [17:09] ok [17:09] thanks roignac [17:10] i guess so, please include other drivers/maintainers of automated test project (based on info from patrickw) [17:10] s/patrickw/patrickmw/ [17:10] yes, will do [17:10] I am also thinking that they may tell me to fix it myself, I am not sure how these things work [17:11] but I guess we'll find out [17:11] we are also looking into modifying the jenkins plugin we installed for the ISO testing dashboard [17:11] so that it shows the build we are testing, aggregates results, etc [17:12] we'll let you know if we go ahead with the enhancements, the plan would be to contribute those upstream [17:12] #subtopic #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing [17:12] too many subtopics, let me try again [17:13] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing [17:13] patrickmw is not here, nuclearbob do you have any update on this? [17:13] yeah, we're working on adding architecture to the results now [17:13] as part of that we're redoing the directory structure [17:14] and we'll be adding some information about deltas on a given day and between days [17:14] that's all I've got for now [17:14] cool, thanks [17:14] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-kernel-sru [17:14] sconklin is not here either [17:14] moving on [17:14] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-test-case-management-tool [17:15] the Mozilla team plan to have the new version of Case Conductor ready for mid January [17:15] o/ [17:15] they answered yesterday night to my email and are happy to discuss our requests at some point in January [17:15] yes, roignac ? [17:16] could you please ask them whether we could use cc.oddsites.net and cc-dev.oddsotes.net freely? [17:16] As I've taken liberty to create a Ubiquity product [17:16] I did, they are happy for us to perform our tasks there [17:16] as long as we don't destroy their testing envs [17:16] since they are also using it [17:16] and later realised that this could break some of their automated tests [17:16] oh, ok. No destruction anyway [17:16] no, I think they run their automated tests in other place [17:16] cool [17:17] By the way [17:17] o/ [17:17] I'd like someone to try review feature in CC [17:17] roignac: which feature? [17:17] alourie, you can speak freely [17:17] ok [17:17] Case Conductor allows us to review testcases - though I haven't figured how for now [17:18] So we could review new testcases there, how about that? [17:18] roignac: I don't think it does, we asked for them to add the under review state [17:18] From what I've seen , CC also offers flow of testing. [17:18] roignac: that is a test environment, we shouldn't be using it to store data [17:18] it can be teared apart any moment [17:18] we use ISO tracker for that (well, in context of testing ISO images, at least) [17:19] so what is our purpose with CC? Is it only for storing test cases? [17:19] alourie: storing test cases and results, I would say [17:19] if it shows them in a meaningful way [17:19] alourie, it has some reports too [17:19] so, I would use it for reporting as well? [17:19] I think so [17:19] instead of ISO tracker? [17:19] eventually [17:19] Ah... [17:19] but that's not going to happen any time soon [17:19] it's going to take us a while to get there [17:19] hm, ok [17:20] and if it is not better than the iso tracker, then we won't use it for that [17:20] got ya [17:20] so it could only be used for storing test cases [17:20] to start with, yes [17:20] and if it does good job with it, we can only use it for storing :-) [17:20] and for community testing to report results [17:20] and defects [17:21] we just need to find a way to connect it to the tracker database [17:21] gema: but that's what ISO tracker is for! [17:21] hm [17:21] which doesn't seem very difficult [17:21] hello everyone -- late, but thought I would lurk [17:21] balloons: welcome! [17:21] gema: ok, I'm not clear on this, but let's just waut [17:21] alourie: there are two functionalities on the tracker, one is to report results, the other one is to display them [17:22] alourie: on a first step we are trying to replace the wiki [17:22] sure [17:22] which is horrible to store test cases [17:22] +1 [17:22] after that, we'll see if we use the tracker fully, or just partially [17:22] depending on how CC integrates with our workflow [17:22] but this is not going to happen overnight in any case [17:22] I think that test content should show on the flow, either tracker or CC [17:23] we'll see how CC progresses, and make our minds later. [17:23] and we don't want to screw up any release so we will do a gradual move to CC [17:23] alourie: agreed [17:23] hey, if they can handle 'test case management', this is already an improvement [17:23] yes [17:23] even without flows [17:23] it'll flow, just give it time [17:23] sure it will :-) [17:24] and this will probably free some of our good devs to do some more interesting stuff [17:24] ok, the other thing I wanted to say on this topic [17:24] roignac: if you find that review option, ping me and we'll schedule something [17:24] I have been thinking about how to classify the test cases and how to structure the testing, I am not sure whether we should be testing images or whether our [17:24] test cases should start targetting packages themselves. [17:24] o/ [17:25] alourie: go ahead [17:25] I think these are different kinds of testing [17:25] you test images for being a complete product [17:25] that's the thing, alourie they are not [17:25] but you test packages for verifying that they work [17:25] gema: why not? [17:26] alourie: because two different people choose two different options at install time and end up with two different set of packages installed [17:26] so there is no one product in an image [17:26] there is virtually infite products in it [17:26] hm [17:27] so what would be purpose of ISO testing? [17:27] so I guess the question is whether we are testing the end product or an artificial construct we call default image [17:27] testing as many flavors of the ISO as we can [17:27] taking them into account [17:27] gema: would it be too inaccurate to assume that most people install the default image? [17:27] unlike now [17:28] alourie: I believe so [17:28] so testing the default flow makes sense [17:28] yes, and testing others makes equal sense [17:28] The question I'd ask is "what are you testing". [17:29] Generally for ISO testing you're testing the image and the installer. [17:29] You aren't really testing all the applications. [17:29] so, we are actually questioning ourselves with "what purpose does ISO testing have?" [17:29] That can allow you to narrow your test focus. [17:29] I'd agree with ScottK on this [17:30] People who are running the development release need to test does the stuff work after it's installed and running. [17:30] indeed, getting it installed and running is an important part [17:31] agreed, so what would you propose we do, ScottK ? [17:32] I think the test cases we've had are appropriately focused on what ISO testing needs to accomplish. [17:32] That doesn't mean they can't be improved, but they are at least in the ballpark. [17:32] What I've seen though is that as the installer evolves, the test cases don't keep up. [17:33] that's the thing, I don't think they are appropriate [17:33] because they are mainly installer tests, not ISO tests [17:33] ScottK: sounds like the classic issue of adding a feature (code-wise), but not docs or tests, etc [17:33] they don't tend to verify much of what's actually installed works [17:34] gema: so do we touch here definition of "ISO" as the complete system? [17:34] so, by "ISO testing" we imply testing that EVERYTHING works... [17:34] I would have thought so [17:34] or, rather, "tested" [17:34] hm [17:34] Then you better set aside a month or two for testing in the release cycle. [17:35] that "EVERYTHING" bit worries me a little [17:35] ScottK: or get more people collaborating and get as much as you can automated [17:35] yikes, test every default app that the standard iso holds? [17:35] We're an integrator and have to, to some extent, rely on upstreams to deliver working code. [17:35] phillw: yes [17:35] wow [17:35] this would take some time! [17:35] ScottK: we are an integrator and have to verify things integrate properly [17:35] I could see a problem here :-) [17:36] gema: True, but not all of that verification needs to be done in the context of ISO testing. [17:36] well, this is a bigger problem than this meeting, just wanted to let you know I have started to think about it [17:36] is it even viable? [17:36] ScottK: agreed [17:36] ScottK: but it needs to be done by ISO release time [17:36] alourie: it is [17:36] gema: so here's an idea [17:36] It needs to be done. [17:37] ok [17:37] what if we split this into 2: [17:37] 1. ISO testing part 1, which includes installer and image [17:37] 2. ISO testing part 2, which includes testing that apps work [17:37] .. [17:37] in general, they could be done in parallel/separately [17:37] alourie: the apps part we need to automate, I don't think running it manually unless it is necessary due to the nature of the test case works [17:38] alourie: I don't see how you can test that the apps work without the installer working properly [17:38] cos you don't have the system under test installed in that case [17:38] anyway, we can keep discussing this on the list [17:38] ok, let's take it offline [17:38] it was just a thought that occurred to me whilst trying to figure out how to populate CC [17:39] gema: ok [17:39] gema: I can also tell you about my secret idea then [17:39] :-) [17:39] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-backlog [17:39] alourie: cool :D [17:39] any backlog info to share today? [17:39] are community tasks separate item nowdays? [17:40] they are in case something got lost [17:40] but we can discuss here too [17:40] ok [17:40] so I can go with wiki updates [17:40] I haven't added the tasks to the blueprints yet because I didn't find the time [17:40] but you can go ahead, yes [17:40] ok, so I didn't have much time to work on wiki this week, but I did make some progress [17:41] I will also make a hierarchy of the thing I want to update, and work on them too [17:41] so, I hope that I'll have something to update with soon [17:41] and then I'll send it to the list for review [17:41] .. [17:41] alourie: excellent, thanks a lot [17:42] anything else anyone [17:42] ? [17:42] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing [17:42] nuclearbob: ? [17:42] I've got autotest packaged now, autotest-server and autotest-client are in my ppa [17:43] could you post the launchpad link to it? [17:43] I've been using those to run tests on the most recent images available in our openstack cluster [17:43] yeah [17:43] https://launchpad.net/~nuclearbob/+archive/ppa [17:43] thanks [17:43] ok, thanks a lot nuclearbob [17:44] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions [17:44] some of the tests are failing on the precise dailies, so I'm doing more investigation to determine whether the failures are actual problems or whether the test code needs to be updated [17:44] looks like some of both [17:44] ups, sorry [17:44] that's all from me [17:44] ok, sounds good, thanks [17:44] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-automated-test-submissions [17:45] no progress on this task this week, so nothing to report [17:45] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-metrics [17:45] no progress on this one either [17:45] #subtopic https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-standard-sru-testing [17:45] we don't have jibel around, so no progress on this one either [17:45] #subtopic Community Tasks - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TasksPrecise [17:45] have we missed any community task ? [17:46] that we have people here to discuss, I mean [17:46] I don't think so [17:46] ok, so moving on [17:46] #topic Update Lubuntu === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Update Lubuntu [17:46] phillw: ? [17:46] all is peaceful, no horrible show-stopping bugs reported. [17:47] good [17:47] anything else, phillw ? [17:47] at the meeting tonight they are looking to form some teams... I'm hoping for a QA / testing team :) [17:47] that'd be good, yes :D [17:48] phillw, gema: would you elaborate a bit? [17:48] a, the Lubuntu ;-) [17:48] I guess phillw is getting himself a QA Team for Lubuntu, yes [17:49] gema, phillw: this reminds me [17:49] alourie: currently everything lubuntu is on one mailing list, we are looking to start to split groups so, for example, normal users do not get the chatter from the devs about what they're working on [17:49] phillw: sure, [17:49] currently, when we list different QA subgroups on wiki, we list Kubuntu QA [17:50] so, I think we need to list all the QA that we have in -buntu universe there [17:50] alourie: that would be correct, as I'm the only person on the Lubuntu QA team (and I get lonely :P ) [17:50] :-) [17:50] good, alourie will you take care of that? [17:50] we are running out of time [17:50] gema: of course [17:51] cool, thanks [17:51] #topic Update Xubuntu === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Update Xubuntu [17:51] charlie doesn't seem to be around [17:51] so we are moving on [17:51] #topic Update Ubuntu === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Update Ubuntu [17:52] I don't think we have any updates for Ubuntu either, besides what we've already discussed [17:52] #topic Other Topics === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Other Topics [17:52] I'd like to mention that we are not having our weekly meeting next week [17:52] due to holidays and festivities [17:52] are we all happy with that? [17:52] or do you guys want to have it? [17:52] sure [17:52] okay with me. [17:52] ok here [17:53] ok, so our next meeting will be the 4th of January [17:53] if anyone wants to chair it, let me know, otherwise I will do it :) [17:53] any other topic ? [17:53] gema: what was that bit about "participating in jenkins" stuff, that you wanted to mention later? [17:54] ahh, we'll start with the training that hggdh is going to give [17:54] and then we could have ubuntu-qa triaging issues [17:54] or at least, trying to learn how to do it [17:54] triaging issues? [17:54] as in, when a test fails, determine why and raise a defect if required [17:54] aha [17:54] or try to reproduce on your environment to make sure it happens [17:54] ok [17:54] that sort of thing [17:55] sure [17:55] but we need some training for that [17:55] nod [17:55] * alourie loves this stuff [17:55] does the bugsquad have anything for it now? [17:55] no, bugsquad are doing different things [17:55] afaik [17:56] we are doing it within canonical QA [17:56] but there is no reason why the community contributors cannot do it if they like to [17:56] right right.. [17:56] so that'd be it, any further qustions, please send to the list! :D [17:56] balloons: we split qa and bugsquad to 2 teams [17:57] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [17:57] Meeting ended Wed Dec 21 17:57:08 2011 UTC. [17:57] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-21-17.02.moin.txt [17:57] yea! [17:57] thanks all [17:57] thanks guys [17:57] as ever gema thanks for chairing! [17:57] balloons: the bugsquad meeting happens next if you want to sit through it :) [17:57] indeed, gema rocks! [17:57] thank you all for your time [17:57] gema: thanks, sure will [17:57] and have a very Merry Christmas :) [17:57] +1 [17:57] +1 [17:57] alourie: yes, I'll have to catch up on how they interact [17:58] and other holidays, if you have them [17:58] +1 [17:58] alourie: +1 [17:59] awesome [18:01] * bdmurray looks around [18:01] o/ [18:01] hi [18:01] lets get started [18:01] #startmeeting [18:01] Meeting started Wed Dec 21 18:01:44 2011 UTC. The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [18:01] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [18:01] #topic Previous Actions === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions [18:02] ACTION: bdmurray to investigate what happened to the rhythmbox package hook [18:02] I filed and fixed bug 904527 regarding this [18:02] Launchpad bug 904527 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "apport package hook no longer installed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904527 [18:03] pedro_: do you think that is worth SRU'ing to oneiric? [18:03] would be nice to have it there, yes [18:03] okay, I can do that [18:03] #action bdmurray to prepare Oneiric SRU for bug 904527 [18:03] ACTION: bdmurray to prepare Oneiric SRU for bug 904527 [18:03] Launchpad bug 904527 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "apport package hook no longer installed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904527 [18:03] cool ,thanks bdmurray [18:04] pedro_: no problem [18:04] that's that for previous actions [18:04] #topic Engineering Team Bug Status === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status [18:04] pedro_: do you have anything? [18:06] not much to share, just something that might be interesting to the triagers using bugzilla to file bugs at the upstream projects: http://paulrouget.com/e/learnbugzilla/ [18:06] .. [18:07] pedro_: that looks really neat - thanks! [18:07] jsalisbury: any news from you? [18:07] One bug I'd like to mention is bug 904569 It appears to be a regression in and Oneiric kernel update. [18:07] Launchpad bug 904569 in linux (Ubuntu) "Linux 3.0.0-15-generic-pae causes laptops to fail to resume from suspend (Dell XPS 1645, Sony Vaio VPCF1390)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904569 [18:08] Lot's of new bugs coming in for this. I'm working on bisecting, but the SRU team is out until the new year. [18:08] .. [18:09] jsalisbury: what's the resume-trace procedure mentioned in comment #3? I haven't seen that before [18:11] bdmurray, It's a procedure to try and track down suspend issues. I personally haven't gone through it, yet. [18:12] jsalisbury: oh, I see now it just has a fancy name ;-) [18:12] right [18:12] thanks for bringing that bug up [18:12] np, figured it's something to keep an eye out for [18:14] I spent some time reading about libata error messages this week [18:14] https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/articles/l/i/b/Libata_error_messages.html [18:14] and come to find out we were receiving some more bug reports about ubiquity and package installation failures that were really hardware related [18:15] so I've taken care of that in the general ubuntu apport hook and also in my bug bot (which will catch these from previous releases) [18:15] and I cleaned up some existing bug reports [18:16] I also updated the ubiquity apport package hook to tag ubiquity bugs ubiquity-upgrade if people choose to reinstall Ubuntu using ubiquity [18:17] It also looks like the call for help with update-manager-core bug reports worked as there are now 0. ;-) [18:18] So thanks for helping with those. [18:18] #topic Bug Escalations === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations [18:18] Are there any High or Critical bugs that we should be aware of or are being neglected? [18:21] okay then [18:21] #topic Other Topics === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics [18:21] Is there anything else to discuss? [18:22]