| marcoceppi | in the phpmyadmin charm? there is no line 3 | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| m_3 | yeah, so I deployed it naming the phpmyadmin service "myphp" | 00:01 |
| marcoceppi | 6 | 00:01 |
| m_3 | sorry, not config-changed, but db-admin-relation-changed | 00:01 |
| m_3 | it creates a database "phpmyadmin", but operates on the (nonexistent) "myphp" database | 00:02 |
| marcoceppi | Ah, it's left over from when mysql charm created the db | 00:02 |
| m_3 | meta/192.168.122.243 contains "server_db=myphp" | 00:02 |
| marcoceppi | I'll fix that in the charm. I also found another bug | 00:02 |
| m_3 | ok, I'll note it in the review... thanks, just didn't know which of those behaviors you wanted to happen | 00:03 |
| marcoceppi | Yeah, if you join multiple mysql services, it'll always use the last one as it's database server, needs to just use the first one and not create a phpmyadmin control db on each server | 00:04 |
| marcoceppi | actually, no that's right | 00:05 |
| marcoceppi | but the item you pointed out is correct, I'll throw that up in a min | 00:05 |
| m_3 | yeah, it's ok to marry one phpmyadmin instance to one mysql instance... just note it in the docs | 00:06 |
| m_3 | lots of charms have a similar limitation | 00:06 |
| SpamapS | indeed, haproxy suffers from this too | 00:07 |
| SpamapS | you can't load balance two services behind one haproxy without knowing the hostnames they need to be known by externally | 00:07 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: What do you mean "it's okay to marry one..." | 00:08 |
| SpamapS | m_3 is saying that some services shun paligamy | 00:11 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: if you have two mysql services around... wiki1db and wiki2db | 00:11 |
| m_3 | it's ok to have a wiki1webdb and wiki2webdb | 00:11 |
| m_3 | 1 for 1, no need to have a single wikiwebdb that connects to both mysql instances | 00:12 |
| marcoceppi | Sure, it is. But you could also have one that connects to both, right? | 00:12 |
| m_3 | don't actually know if phpmyadmin supports that, but if it did yes | 00:13 |
| marcoceppi | It does, and the charm does as well | 00:13 |
| m_3 | just saying it's extra work to make the charm handle that | 00:13 |
| m_3 | it's ok if it doesn't | 00:13 |
| marcoceppi | but it already does :) | 00:13 |
| m_3 | oh, meta/ip-address has the instance-specific data | 00:13 |
| m_3 | gotcha | 00:13 |
| marcoceppi | which actually reminds me, is there a way to get the name of the service from the db-admin-relation-joined? | 00:14 |
| marcoceppi | Like if I join phpmyadmin service with dbwiki1 - can I get the name "dbwiki1" from a magic command? | 00:14 |
| m_3 | which service? local is ${JUJU_UNIT_NAME//\/*} | 00:14 |
| marcoceppi | The remote service | 00:14 |
| m_3 | remote is ${JUJU_REMOTE_NAME//\/*} iirc | 00:14 |
| SpamapS | JUJU_REMOTE_UNIT | 00:14 |
| * m_3 checking | 00:14 | |
| m_3 | SpamapS: thanks | 00:15 |
| m_3 | so ${JUJU_REMOTE_UNIT//\/*} | 00:15 |
| marcoceppi | Fantastic! Does //\/* work in dash? | 00:15 |
| m_3 | had problems with that before, but haven't looked into what the deal is... it's posix and it should support it | 00:16 |
| m_3 | typically use bash as a consequence | 00:16 |
| SpamapS | m_3: // is not posix IIRC | 00:17 |
| SpamapS | ## and %%, but not // | 00:17 |
| m_3 | ${JUJU_REMOTE_UNIT%%/*} works in dash | 00:17 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: next charm will probably be bash if not in php | 00:18 |
| SpamapS | m_3: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html .. no // | 00:18 |
| m_3 | I sit corrected :) | 00:19 |
| SpamapS | You guys can overrule my shell code edict. I feel like charm-helpers should be posix only just so that if somebody has a mountain of ksh or csh stuff, they won't have to fight with charm helpers. | 00:19 |
| marcoceppi | Cool, %% works | 00:19 |
| marcoceppi | SpamapS: I agree on that level :) | 00:20 |
| m_3 | no, I'm fine... happy with %% | 00:20 |
| SpamapS | I do only think we have to care about shell *in charm helpers*. Write your hooks in bash or scala for all I care. :) | 00:22 |
| * SpamapS ponders running the test suite with all the other shells just to see if it works | 00:22 | |
| * SpamapS is still not sure how comfortable he is writing enough shell code to need a test suite. ;) | 00:23 | |
| m_3 | wow, yeah, I know what you mean | 00:23 |
| SpamapS | still its kind of cool that we have one. | 00:23 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: Did switching "upstream" work in your tests? | 00:24 |
| * m_3 flashbacks to manual rsnapshot before rsnapshot but after dump was no longer useful | 00:24 | |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: still running... had to wipe my env a little bit ago | 00:25 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: beautifully | 00:30 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: Do you have any opinions how templating might work? I wrote a templating engine using bash that I put in file.sh however, I was thwarted when I found out bash/dash can't handle assoc arrays and passing them to functions as parameters | 00:30 |
| marcoceppi | I guess you would pass two arrays to the function, one with keys and one with their respective replacement values. Though I'm not sure if bash/dash maintains insert orders in arrays | 00:31 |
| m_3 | I really think cheetah from the command-line is a great option... it really was simple to do: https://gist.github.com/1402941 | 00:32 |
| m_3 | my only concern is how sensitive it is to general markup being interpreted as special, but it would be dead-simple to manage from a charm-helper wrapper | 00:34 |
| marcoceppi | But, how do we build that into a charm-helper-sh function | 00:34 |
| marcoceppi | You'd still need to pass key/value pairs. Unless you did it one at a time? | 00:34 |
| m_3 | nope, just have it use the current shell's env | 00:35 |
| m_3 | set vars | 00:35 |
| marcoceppi | You mean, just call it globally? | 00:35 |
| m_3 | then call ch-template(template_file) | 00:35 |
| marcoceppi | Ugh, I could have done that with the bash function as well | 00:35 |
| marcoceppi | I think I deleted that code too. | 00:35 |
| m_3 | that's what a heredoc does in shell | 00:35 |
| m_3 | it'd be really equiv, just easier to manage the template part in the files | 00:36 |
| marcoceppi | right | 00:36 |
| m_3 | more powerful too... looping constructs, etc in the template itself | 00:36 |
| marcoceppi | I <3 tpl files | 00:36 |
| marcoceppi | I'll look into starting file.sh with this | 00:36 |
| marcoceppi | Suppose charm-helper-sh will just need to depend on cheetah as well | 00:37 |
| marcoceppi | Is this channel logged anywhere? | 00:37 |
| m_3 | yup | 00:37 |
| m_3 | dunno where | 00:37 |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: why not just pass the resolved heredoc to the templating function? | 00:38 |
| m_3 | but I've seen people pull logs of it | 00:38 |
| m_3 | heredocs are hard to assign | 00:38 |
| SpamapS | ch_replace_file /etc/foo.conf <<EOF ..... EOF | 00:38 |
| m_3 | there's an exec trick to do it but it's ugly | 00:38 |
| SpamapS | I don't actually know if shell functions can have different stdin's tho | 00:39 |
| marcoceppi | I think I must not be understanding heredocs | 00:39 |
| SpamapS | exec is fine | 00:39 |
| SpamapS | we are not working on sub-second charm hooks as a goal ;) | 00:39 |
| m_3 | 'ch_replace_file file <<EOF ..... EOF' is absolutely the goal | 00:39 |
| m_3 | yeah, exec is fine in the ch method | 00:40 |
| m_3 | but having to exec a heredoc to assign it to a variable to pass to the ch func is ugly | 00:40 |
| m_3 | we can figure it out | 00:40 |
| m_3 | just putting another tool like cheetah out as a first choice | 00:41 |
| m_3 | for more powerful templates | 00:41 |
| SpamapS | cheetah has enough power, it doesn't need a helper | 00:41 |
| m_3 | then we're not gluing heredocs and snippets "pre-this and post-that" together for one config file | 00:41 |
| SpamapS | if you have a cheetah template sitting in your charm, the cheetah executable can take all the inputs as a heredoc, and the output file, and will do an atomic replace for it | 00:42 |
| SpamapS | m_3: ch_append_file file <<EOF ;-) | 00:42 |
| m_3 | ok, I'd be fine with just using straight cheetah in charms w/o a helper | 00:42 |
| SpamapS | appending works for looping too | 00:42 |
| SpamapS | I actually find pre/loop/post to be just fine. | 00:42 |
| m_3 | appending works, it's just ugly to manage the config in its entirety | 00:43 |
| m_3 | I like loops in templates :) | 00:43 |
| SpamapS | its a style thing | 00:43 |
| m_3 | yup | 00:43 |
| SpamapS | do what makes you happy, I say | 00:43 |
| SpamapS | the goal of charm helpers is to help people get back to what they enjoy | 00:43 |
| SpamapS | not to keep them away from what they want to do | 00:43 |
| m_3 | yeah, I wouldn't oppose any particular approach in charm-helpers... just putting ideas out there | 00:44 |
| * SpamapS dons cheesy voice and powder blue knit sweater | 00:44 | |
| m_3 | nice | 00:44 |
| SpamapS | Because you're good enough to find your passion and your fire | 00:44 |
| m_3 | it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood | 00:44 |
| * SpamapS lights sweater on fire | 00:44 | |
| marcoceppi | I thought the goal of charm helpers was world domination | 00:45 |
| m_3 | ha | 00:45 |
| m_3 | I really like phpmyadmin as part of a demo | 00:46 |
| m_3 | spin up a decently-mature stack around mysql | 00:47 |
| m_3 | then add that on in conversation as an afterthought | 00:47 |
| m_3 | it gives a great feeling of power | 00:47 |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: no that is the goal of SpamapS... it just so happens that charmers is one of SpamapS's tools | 00:47 |
| m_3 | and the speed with which this can be done is a _real_ distinguisher | 00:47 |
| m_3 | jcastro: note for blogging about it ^^ | 00:48 |
| SpamapS | m_3: yeah, its pretty cool. We should try to get phppgadmin charmed up too | 00:48 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: I liked the 'minions' MP approval note :) | 00:48 |
| SpamapS | m_3: and then maybe get a few of the things that can optionally use mysql | postgresql working that way so we can show how easy *that* is to switch out. | 00:48 |
| SpamapS | m_3: hahaha. :) | 00:48 |
| m_3 | yeah, I did that with rails when I was putting together the basic pgsql charm | 00:49 |
| * SpamapS was distraught that he mispelled it minons .. glad somebody noticed it | 00:49 | |
| m_3 | swapped them out | 00:49 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: I'm looking over the review, what's wrong with the env/xxx files? They're just variables - I wasn't sure how else to switch between variables for each of the functions in common.sh | 00:49 |
| m_3 | is it minons? not minions? | 00:49 |
| SpamapS | m_3: the real kicker would be to also have a "mysql2pg" charm that does a migration for you | 00:49 |
| m_3 | ha! | 00:49 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: it's no biggie at all.. just a mention that there are a lot of moving parts in the current setup | 00:50 |
| m_3 | those files are sourced only from common.sh | 00:50 |
| m_3 | so they could easily be functions inside of common.sh | 00:50 |
| marcoceppi | So, if I put them in a fucntion, like source_upstream, and they weren't local, would they overwrite the global scope? | 00:50 |
| m_3 | yes | 00:50 |
| m_3 | shell's global | 00:50 |
| SpamapS | 1 → 75 of 43799 results | 00:51 |
| marcoceppi | scoping in shell rubs me backwards | 00:51 |
| SpamapS | Hmm.. how long will it take me to triage all of these bugs.. :) | 00:51 |
| m_3 | scoping in shell was an afterthought at best | 00:51 |
| m_3 | it's biggest criticism in general | 00:51 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: Thanks, I'll just throw them in functions, it'll look nicer since functions names are easier on the eyes than . env/upstream | 00:51 |
| SpamapS | heh.. and really.. scoping.. shell.. get a real language people :) | 00:52 |
| m_3 | don't have to at all... just a style note | 00:52 |
| marcoceppi | oosh? Object Oriented SHell? | 00:52 |
| marcoceppi | _One day_ | 00:52 |
| SpamapS | oosh | 00:52 |
| SpamapS | and the windows version, woosh | 00:52 |
| m_3 | now you're stepping into religion | 00:52 |
| SpamapS | and the darwin version.. oh | 00:52 |
| m_3 | woosh... sounds like a commode flushing :) | 00:53 |
| m_3 | rofl | 00:53 |
| * SpamapS wants to see a shebang, #!/bin/doosh | 00:53 | |
| m_3 | totally | 00:53 |
| * m_3 crying now | 00:53 | |
| marcoceppi | Doosh, Doing Object Orientation in SHell | 01:00 |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: all it needs is an editor, and you can self-publish on Kindle and Nook. ;) | 01:02 |
| SpamapS | ooo, cacti would be an interesting charm.. and would get even more interesting as subordinate charms were added for things like snmpd | 01:20 |
| SpamapS | wow cacti is like.. dead.. :( | 01:21 |
| m_3 | dumping snow! | 01:59 |
| m_3 | haven't played with cacti in a while... usually just been nagios and ganglia... eager to try sensu | 02:00 |
| marcoceppi | Another good sub-ordinate would be Splunk | 02:05 |
| poolie | is anyone writing docs for the lxc provider? | 05:22 |
| poolie | ah some in https://code.launchpad.net/~bcsaller/juju/local-troubleshooting/+merge/79193 | 05:23 |
| SpamapS | poolie: the main docs are at https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html | 06:08 |
| poolie | got it thanks | 06:08 |
| SpamapS | poolie: of course, patches accepted. :) that is generated from lp:juju/docs | 06:09 |
| poolie | so it's now apparently stuck with just 'lxc-wait -n mbp-local-udd-0 -s RUNNING' waiting for something | 06:09 |
| SpamapS | poolie: that shouldn't need to wait too long | 06:09 |
| SpamapS | poolie: there are copious amounts of logs in the directory you've specified with 'data-dir' | 06:10 |
| poolie | https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/juju/mbp-doc/+merge/86651 | 06:10 |
| poolie | :) | 06:10 |
| SpamapS | poolie: I think you want container.log or master-customize.log | 06:10 |
| SpamapS | The review queue is pretty long at the moment | 06:11 |
| * SpamapS takes a gander | 06:11 | |
| poolie | i see | 06:11 |
| poolie | it's ok | 06:11 |
| poolie | hm so it just has "Starting container" as the last message... | 06:11 |
| poolie | there's no rush on the mp | 06:11 |
| SpamapS | poolie: has the container "booted" already? | 06:13 |
| poolie | in what sense? | 06:14 |
| SpamapS | poolie: like, does it have an 'init' and subprocesses like getty and such? | 06:14 |
| SpamapS | lxc-start's only child would be init | 06:14 |
| poolie | hm, lxc-ps --name mbp-local-udd-0 shows nothing | 06:18 |
| SpamapS | do you see any children of lxc-start at all? | 06:19 |
| poolie | there is no lxc-start (any more) | 06:19 |
| poolie | maybe i'll try running it again | 06:19 |
| SpamapS | poolie: interesting | 06:20 |
| SpamapS | poolie: is there an lxc-create running? | 06:20 |
| SpamapS | poolie: or lxc-clone ? | 06:20 |
| poolie | just lxc-wait | 06:21 |
| poolie | poor thing | 06:21 |
| SpamapS | stood up | 06:21 |
| SpamapS | just sitting there, nibbling on bread, with high hopes | 06:21 |
| SpamapS | poolie: usually the error will be found in container.log or master-customize.log | 06:24 |
| poolie | hm, run by hand i can see an error | 06:24 |
| poolie | not a very useful one | 06:24 |
| poolie | ah, container.log does have it | 06:25 |
| poolie | lxc_start - failed to spawn 'mbp-local-udd-0' | 06:26 |
| poolie | thanks | 06:26 |
| SpamapS | poolie: multiple users have reported odd issues where something bad happens to the lxc cache, which makes it fail to start all containers.. the resolution is to clear out /var/cache/lxc entirely.. though that does mean re-building all the master containers with debootstrap | 06:27 |
| SpamapS | I fear we haven't really spent enough time triaging that problem. | 06:28 |
| poolie | ok, i can do that | 06:28 |
| poolie | maybe there should at least be an error or if lxc-start exits | 06:30 |
| SpamapS | poolie: I think thats actually half the problem.. that lxc-start's errors aren't reported. | 06:31 |
| SpamapS | poolie: the other half is that lxc-start gets broken somehow | 06:31 |
| poolie | yeah; that may be out of scope for juju propery | 06:31 |
| poolie | *proper | 06:31 |
| poolie | but perhaps the docs can give a tip about it | 06:31 |
| poolie | shall i file a bug? | 06:31 |
| SpamapS | yes, give a look at the current bugs.. I *think* there may already been a report that just needs some more priority | 06:34 |
| SpamapS | poolie: and thanks for playing. :) | 06:34 |
| poolie | np | 06:34 |
| poolie | k https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/907655 | 06:36 |
| _mup_ | Bug #907655: hangs when lxc fails to start <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/907655 > | 06:36 |
| _mup_ | Bug #907655 was filed: hangs when lxc fails to start <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/907655 > | 06:37 |
| poolie | i love 'destroy-environment' as a command name | 06:38 |
| SpamapS | it is juju's homage to the industrial revolution | 06:39 |
| poolie | juju hate-freedom | 06:39 |
| SpamapS | the go version will have juju club-baby-seals | 06:40 |
| poolie_ | SpamapS, so i guess 'ssh' to lxc won't work? | 07:00 |
| poolie_ | failed to spawn again, even after blowing away the cache | 07:03 |
| SpamapS | yes ssh'ing to them should work fine | 07:04 |
| SpamapS | poolie_: something else must be wrong | 07:05 |
| poolie_ | time for strace | 07:05 |
| SpamapS | poolie_: even the console of the container is logged, so I'd be surprised if strace helps more than that. | 07:07 |
| SpamapS | poolie_: but ultimately, you should be able to 'lxc-start -n mbp-juju-local-0' and see what happens | 07:08 |
| poolie_ | that's what i'm tracing | 07:08 |
| poolie_ | it also fails | 07:08 |
| poolie_ | it's not obvious to me why | 07:08 |
| poolie_ | i need to go in a sec | 07:08 |
| SpamapS | poolie_: me too.. hopefully we can figure it when you pick it back up. :-P | 07:10 |
| poolie_ | 'no distribution series: lucid' pushing a charm? | 07:14 |
| SpamapS | poolie_: the juju agents have some problems w/ python 2.6 | 07:23 |
| SpamapS | poolie_: oneiric is the first series that I *know* works.. natty also should probably work. | 07:24 |
| poolie_ | ok | 07:24 |
| SpamapS | and at some point in the very near future, I'll be officially opening up the "precise" series. :) | 07:34 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: heh, FTBFS .. oops, I forgot that you did that apt-get in the tests.. thats going to have to go away | 08:33 |
| * SpamapS fixes the build | 08:33 | |
| nijaba | SpamapS: ah, didn't think of that. easy to fix though, I just used pwgen to generate random files, I'll just grab bytes from /dev/urandom | 08:57 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: there are other things broken when running these tests in buildds | 08:58 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: $HOME is not always available | 08:58 |
| nijaba | really? | 08:58 |
| SpamapS | indeed | 08:58 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: what should I use? | 08:58 |
| SpamapS | I'm not sure thats the problem | 08:58 |
| nijaba | :/ | 08:58 |
| SpamapS | there's some really really confusing double-negative logic that I can't tell is failing or not | 08:59 |
| SpamapS | [ ! something ] && something else && another | 08:59 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: in my test result analysis? | 08:59 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: yeah, the tests fail after the pwgen thing.. but I can't tell why | 09:01 |
| SpamapS | (which may suggest that the error reporting on the code is poor) | 09:01 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: log? | 09:01 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: standby | 09:02 |
| SpamapS | http://paste.ubuntu.com/778398/ | 09:03 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: thats after patching to do a mkdir -p $HOME/.ssh | 09:03 |
| SpamapS | + cat /tmp//tmp/juju-helpers-tmp.yTZqTrA/result | 09:03 |
| SpamapS | that looks odd | 09:03 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: the failure is in the function, you do not get to the test of the results | 09:04 |
| SpamapS | heh.. mktemp -d alreayd has a /tmp prefix ;) | 09:04 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: ah, so the function isn't printing its errors? | 09:04 |
| SpamapS | ch_peer_scp -r -p $CH_portnum -o "-q" "$CH_TEMPDIR/sourcedir/*" "$CH_TEMPDIR/destdir/" > $CH_TEMPDIR/result 2> /dev/null | 09:06 |
| SpamapS | no, you're just redirecting them to dev null!! | 09:06 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: that was just to keep the output "pretty" | 09:07 |
| SpamapS | lost connection | 09:07 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: the output should be pretty already, shouldn't it? | 09:07 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: please see pm | 09:11 |
| fwereade | hey everyone, actually off on my holidays now; have good ones one and all | 11:12 |
| * nijaba loves launchpad estimates: "6 minutes ago (estimated)" | 11:13 | |
| nijaba | Would anyone know why I get a make error 255 on a line that invokes sshd, while I can see in my build log that openssh-server has been installed? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/88141044/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.charm-tools_0.2%2Bbzr102-4~precise1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz | 11:56 |
| nijaba | jcastro: around? | 14:08 |
| hazmat | jcastro, ping | 14:55 |
| SpamapS | hazmat: CONGRATS btw! | 15:22 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: reading your FTBFS .. are you still redirecting stdin/stdout to /dev/null? | 15:22 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: nope. see my buildd-fixes branch | 15:23 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: but I am stuck on this issue | 15:23 |
| nijaba | which occurs before doing any tests | 15:24 |
| nijaba | basically error 255 means "command not found" which is illogical since I added openss-server to the build deps and I can see in the log that it installs | 15:24 |
| mchenetz | off topic: Anybody have a preference of a hosting provider for hosting some Django code? | 15:25 |
| nijaba | mchenetz: AWS? | 15:25 |
| mchenetz | hehe… It's too expensive for me | 15:26 |
| SpamapS | Or appengine | 15:26 |
| mchenetz | Any cloud based engine seems too expensive for me… My sites get about 6000 hits a day | 15:26 |
| SpamapS | mchenetz: appengine is free for quite a few more hits than that IIRC | 15:27 |
| mchenetz | hmmm… I thought i looked at that | 15:27 |
| mchenetz | LEtm e take another look | 15:28 |
| SpamapS | 5GB of bandwidth, 657,000 blob store API calls / day, 3,000/minute... | 15:29 |
| SpamapS | http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/quotas.html | 15:29 |
| SpamapS | 1GB of free data | 15:29 |
| mchenetz | you know what… I was thinkinging of Engine yard… I never looked at app engine | 15:29 |
| mchenetz | My fear about cloud services is that i am ring to get some hugh spike one month and owe a fortune. It may not be a valid fear, but i just don't know. | 15:31 |
| SpamapS | mchenetz: the free tier on appengine will just stop working before it charges you | 15:31 |
| mchenetz | Spamaps: even better… I will definitely try it out. :-) | 15:32 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: I removed the need for pwgen in the test script btw | 15:32 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: ok | 15:32 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: the 255 may be sshd's exit code, not the shell's btw | 15:32 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: hmm, did not think of that. But why? | 15:33 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: not sure.. but its a possibility | 15:34 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: I wonder if they did not block the possibility to run sshd on buildds for security reasons | 15:35 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: regarding your option to (keep|remove) the ssh keys, how would you see that? An additional explicit param to the copy functions? | 15:37 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: no just an additional step in the relation where it would be removed from authorized_keys after the copy | 15:40 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: yes, but if I want to keep them, how do I say I do | 15:41 |
| SpamapS | oh, yeah another arg | 15:41 |
| SpamapS | or, more useful probably is to split the key exchange into its own set of functions | 15:41 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: because without the keys, no possibility to issue a ch_peer_rsync/scp in a config-changed | 15:42 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: again, I won't be able to do the key exchange outside of a peer-relation | 15:42 |
| nijaba | so it is either you keep them, and you can do a copy in config-changed event, or you don't | 15:43 |
| SpamapS | You can though, in config-changed | 15:44 |
| SpamapS | You can just move the key into some other holding area | 15:44 |
| SpamapS | and only when the "copy stuff freely" config parameter is on, do you enable the key | 15:44 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: how? every units receives the config-change event at once. you would then need to issue to set configs to do one copy | 15:45 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: if they're slaves, they move the key into authorized_keys. If they're masters, they try to do the copy over and over until it works. | 15:46 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: hmmm... can try this. | 15:46 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: lets not try to solve all the world's problems right now though. :) | 15:47 |
| nijaba | hehe | 15:47 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: do you have sbuild setup where you can try your build locally? | 15:48 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: nope | 15:49 |
| nijaba | pointers? | 15:49 |
| hazmat | SpamapS, thanks :-) | 15:52 |
| hazmat | mchenetz, heroku seems to be getting more popular, and works for django/python apps | 15:54 |
| mchenetz | hazmat: Very expensive when you scale workers and such | 15:59 |
| hazmat | mchenetz for vms, linode and rackspace cloud are also competitive | 16:00 |
| hazmat | about 20usd/month | 16:00 |
| mchenetz | hazmat: i had my credit card out for linode… I am still debating on it… I like that they are about 40 minutes from me | 16:00 |
| hazmat | appengine is very nice if you don't mind platform tie in | 16:01 |
| mchenetz | hzamat: i am definitely considering app engine for my django stuff… I know you guys are ubuntu, but red hats open shift looks nice and give you a lot too... | 16:02 |
| hazmat | with django-nonrel going out of style (not developed anymore), long term it probably makes sense to use the appengine sql support, though it also prices out a bit more. | 16:02 |
| mchenetz | I am surprised ubuntu doesn't have their own cloud based services yet | 16:03 |
| hazmat | mchenetz, we do.. ubuntu is one of the most widely deployed operating systems in the cloud | 16:04 |
| mchenetz | yeah i know, but no infrastructure to sign up for as a service | 16:04 |
| hazmat | mchenetz, you mean your surprised ubuntu doesn't have a free cloud hosting offering ? | 16:04 |
| mchenetz | yes | 16:04 |
| hazmat | redhat and openshift are late to the game, their trying to catch up by offering free PAAS hosting | 16:05 |
| hazmat | both appengine and heroku have a free tier | 16:05 |
| mchenetz | i agree | 16:05 |
| hazmat | and AWS as well for new customers | 16:05 |
| mchenetz | I like the way you deploy to Heroku… I use Heroku fro my rails stuff | 16:06 |
| mchenetz | AWS is too slow with their micro nodes (Free tiers) | 16:07 |
| mchenetz | I think i am going to try app engine for my Django stuff and maybe Linode for all of my other traditional sites | 16:10 |
| mchenetz | I appreciate the comments and opinions. Thanks... | 16:10 |
| mchenetz | alternative to django-nonrel: http://django-mongodb.org/ ??? | 16:15 |
| robbiew | lynxman: nijaba: either one of you planning to go to FOSDEM? Wondering if we can get a juju demo done in the “Open Source Virtualization and Cloud” (OSVC2012) devroom -> http://osvc.v2.cs.unibo.it/index.php/Main_Page#Call_for_Presentations_and_Workshops | 16:38 |
| robbiew | of course the cfp deadline is...today :) | 16:40 |
| robbiew | no..tomorrow | 16:40 |
| robbiew | plenty of time! | 16:40 |
| nijaba | robbiew: looked into it but can't go, I have my kis that we | 16:40 |
| robbiew | they can come too! | 16:40 |
| robbiew | lol | 16:40 |
| robbiew | no worries | 16:40 |
| * robbiew will try to guilt lynxman into repaying the favor for LISA BoF ;) | 16:42 | |
| jcastro | hazmat: is there a weekly G+ this week? | 17:35 |
| * SpamapS is going to guess "no" | 17:52 | |
| robbiew | jcastro: no...unless you want to watch hazmat change diapers or something | 18:05 |
| robbiew | lol | 18:06 |
| jcastro | well you never know, the other guys might be doing stuff without hazmat around | 18:06 |
| jcastro | I mean, things don't stop around here when clint goes on holiday | 18:06 |
| jcastro | (or do they?) :) | 18:06 |
| robbiew | they don't? | 18:06 |
| robbiew | lol | 18:07 |
| m_3 | in retrospect, we totally should've used 'charmers' for the more open team | 18:12 |
| m_3 | charm-managers or charm-administrators is a better name for the other one | 18:13 |
| m_3 | oh well | 18:13 |
| SpamapS | m_3: its a fair point. Unfortunately, charmers is encoded into charms now with the ppa.. so.. hindsight. ;) | 18:17 |
| koolhead17 | http://www.moodlerooms.com/moodle-on-a-cloud/ | 18:24 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: around? | 18:33 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: was about to leave | 18:36 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: what's up? | 18:36 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: I think we have to break the API that you created with ch_peer_scp. echoing results is not a good plan for boolean pass/fail logic | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: and that way, we can regain the -x for debugging | 18:37 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: sure, what do you suggest? | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: if you're ok with that, I'm going to press forward with it.. I'd rather break it now and fix the tests than have to rip it out so we can get charm-tools building again. | 18:38 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: just change the 'echo $result' to 'return $result' | 18:38 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: go for it | 18:38 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: but that means all consumers of the function need to be updated if they are checking the echo'd result | 18:38 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: we also have to take out the 'exit's | 18:38 |
| SpamapS | turn those into return's | 18:38 |
| nijaba | SpamapS: for now only one consumer, and it's not released | 18:39 |
| * SpamapS should have caught all this in reviewing, but was so enthralled with a working implementation, he missed it ;) | 18:39 | |
| SpamapS | nijaba: ok cool | 18:39 |
| * nijaba leaves for dinner. back later | 18:40 | |
| _mup_ | juju/ssh-known_hosts r458 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com | 18:52 |
| _mup_ | Merged trunk | 18:52 |
| SpamapS | hmm.. we may need to build our own clean $HOME for the tests.. I think that makes sense given ch_peer_scp's desire to populate $HOME with stuff | 18:59 |
| SpamapS | I think thats the issue actually | 18:59 |
| SpamapS | hrm, or it was *my* issue... not *the* issue | 19:10 |
| SpamapS | argh, ssh commands don't seem to care what $HOME is set to | 19:25 |
| jrgifford | jcastro: was there anything about that rails charm? I don't see anything back on it yet. | 19:28 |
| jrgifford | (although my scrollback is having issues with a few other channels) | 19:28 |
| SpamapS | jrgifford: did you submit it for review? | 19:36 |
| jrgifford | SpamapS: no. i was trying to figure out what the status of the rails charm here - https://code.launchpad.net/~mark-mims/charm/oneiric/rails/trunk | 19:36 |
| SpamapS | looks pretty out of date | 19:39 |
| SpamapS | still back in "ensemble" land :) | 19:39 |
| SpamapS | jrgifford: are you interested in trying to revive it? | 19:39 |
| jrgifford | SpamapS: that is correct, i am interested in trying to revive it. | 19:39 |
| jrgifford | do you recommend that I start with that, or start over from scratch? | 19:40 |
| * jrgifford has no clue what he's doing, but knows it needs to be done. | 19:41 | |
| SpamapS | m_3: hey ^^ is that the latest rails charm you have? | 19:41 |
| SpamapS | jrgifford: it looks like a pretty decent start | 19:42 |
| SpamapS | jrgifford: charms for frameworks like that are really just scaffolding... you'll likely have to mod them up a bit to work with any real rails app | 19:42 |
| koolhead17 | nijaba: are you back | 19:42 |
| jrgifford | except for one problem... it doesn't actually install rails, it just sets everything up for rails to be installed. ;) | 19:43 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: yup, was planning on reviving it over the holidays | 19:43 |
| SpamapS | m_3: you should work w/ jrgifford | 19:44 |
| m_3 | sure | 19:44 |
| SpamapS | m_3: oh, and don't use libmysqlclient16-dev .. 'libmysqlclient-dev' will always get you the latest one. | 19:44 |
| m_3 | that charm installs rails through bundler | 19:44 |
| m_3 | then it gets the version your app depends directly on | 19:44 |
| jrgifford | ok. so it does it from a gemfile then? | 19:44 |
| m_3 | yup | 19:44 |
| jrgifford | ok. that's actually how i was going to do it. | 19:45 |
| m_3 | it installs gems, then bootstraps gems to be able to use bundler, then installs your bundle | 19:45 |
| jrgifford | so that means i'm not completely insane with that idea. | 19:45 |
| m_3 | teh only thing that's totally not done but should be is to use rvm | 19:45 |
| m_3 | well, or it's shared insanity :) | 19:45 |
| jrgifford | well... i was working on that originally. | 19:46 |
| jrgifford | (rvm) | 19:46 |
| jrgifford | was using the railsready script as a starting place to kinda hack it together. | 19:46 |
| m_3 | heck, I even have lots of rails apps that almost all use different versions of rails | 19:46 |
| m_3 | so marrying that to the gemfile makes sense | 19:46 |
| jrgifford | thats true. | 19:46 |
| m_3 | jrgifford: well you wanna work on that one together? | 19:48 |
| jrgifford | m_3: you betcha | 19:48 |
| m_3 | BTW, I was planning on switching the charm itself over to ruby | 19:49 |
| m_3 | to show juju to ruby/rails groups | 19:49 |
| jrgifford | that'd be slick. | 19:49 |
| jrgifford | appeal to the chef/puppet crowd, right? | 19:50 |
| m_3 | similar to what I've done in lp:~mark-mims/charm/oneiric/varnish/trunk | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | m_3: why should it use rvm? ;-) | 19:50 |
| m_3 | plan to extract the lib/charmtools out to charm-helpers-ruby | 19:50 |
| m_3 | or perhaps using the chef gem to do most of it | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | m_3: like, is rvm really necessary for everybody? or just for those who like to marry themselves to one version? | 19:51 |
| m_3 | rvm is really pretty common now | 19:52 |
| m_3 | during the transtion between ruby 1.8 and 1.9, it's a pretty good idea to lock it down | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | common, but why? | 19:53 |
| m_3 | perhaps less useful in another 6mos or so | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | because we'll have 1.9.3 in precise? | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | don't the vas majority of ruby users end up using 1.8 still anyway? | 19:54 |
| m_3 | just a wild-guess, but I'd think half the rails apps deployed in the wild are on each | 19:54 |
| m_3 | newer rails takes advantage of 1.9 | 19:54 |
| m_3 | there're lots of motivations (speed) to move to 1.9 | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | Ok, but why do you need rvm for that? | 19:55 |
| m_3 | you don't... rvm just makes it easier to say "my app depends on x.x.x version of ruby" | 19:55 |
| m_3 | like gemfiles do with rails versions (and gem versions in general) | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | Heh.. which, btw, turns into a wonderful messy stew of requirements. ;) | 19:56 |
| m_3 | like npm files do for node apps | 19:56 |
| m_3 | yes, true | 19:56 |
| * jcastro comes back in | 19:56 | |
| jcastro | m_3: yeah, do it in ruby | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | but yeah, rvm is the way people do things | 19:56 |
| jcastro | we need some more language diversity | 19:56 |
| m_3 | but it manages to resolve them for the most part... just have to wait for the 'bundle install' to finish | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | Indeed, and rails devs will appreciate the hooks being in ruby | 19:57 |
| jcastro | actually, let me rephrase, we need to have charms in the language that people who care about that service would be familiar with. | 19:57 |
| m_3 | right | 19:57 |
| jcastro | not just bash bash bash | 19:57 |
| m_3 | hence the rails charm in ruby | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | m_3: we should consider making it easy to build debs of any version of ruby/php/etc. | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | m_3: just so that you can deliver a binary via apt, rather than bundler which may take a bit to get thigns done | 19:58 |
| m_3 | I really liked your gem2deb | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | debigem | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | gem2deb is something else | 19:58 |
| m_3 | oh, gotcha | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | perhaps somewhat inspired by debigem ;) | 19:58 |
| m_3 | that worked really well with rails3 packages | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | yeah, gem2deb is now the standard way all ruby packages are built in Debian and Ubuntu | 19:59 |
| m_3 | only problem is it bypasses the debian upstream versions | 19:59 |
| jcastro | some people consider that a feature! | 20:00 |
| m_3 | I'd be a big fan of tools that'd let us have more choice of ruby/php versions | 20:00 |
| SpamapS | m_3: so ruby in 11.10 and later *does* let you choose which interpreter handles /usr/bin/ruby | 20:01 |
| m_3 | right... alternatives | 20:01 |
| SpamapS | Its meant to work a lot more like java.. where you just pick your jvm | 20:02 |
| m_3 | That's pretty foreign to osx peeps though? do they have anything like /etc/alternatives? | 20:02 |
| m_3 | don't know myself... still need to resurrect the tv for juju osx testing :) | 20:03 |
| jcastro | speaking of, mchenetz | 20:03 |
| jcastro | ready for wider testing? I want to tell the world! | 20:04 |
| m_3 | whoohoo! | 20:04 |
| SpamapS | m_3: no, but I think at this point OSX people are used to things working vastly different on their real servers from their dev env. :) | 20:04 |
| m_3 | yeah, good point | 20:04 |
| SpamapS | Hence vagrant and all the other ways to run VMs on OSX | 20:04 |
| m_3 | just make it really easy to manage alternatives from capistrano, vlad, et al | 20:05 |
| m_3 | good point... perhaps the charm should use version config settings and alternatives | 20:05 |
| m_3 | talked to wayne (rvm guy) about packaging rvm... he wants to help | 20:06 |
| m_3 | but that's a seeparate thing | 20:06 |
| mchenetz | jcastro: the easy_install version works pretty well… I am working on a slicker install though… I will probably have a new version over the weekend. I got a little tied up with work. Unfortunately, this isn't my full time job. :-( | 20:07 |
| jcastro | cooh cooh | 20:07 |
| jcastro | ok I'll just play it safe and not announce anything until the new year | 20:08 |
| jcastro | unless you tell me otherwise | 20:08 |
| mchenetz | jcastro: As soon as i have a great install for everyone, i will help you announce it. :-) | 20:08 |
| jcastro | \o/ | 20:08 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: love to get your input sometime on what we've learned about packaging packaging tools like pear,cpan,cran,ctan,gems,npm | 20:09 |
| m_3 | seems like it's a tough line to maintain | 20:09 |
| SpamapS | m_3: its not really.. | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | m_3: you package stuff when you want to stabilize it and support it | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | m_3: you let people use the tools when things are still in flux | 20:11 |
| marcoceppi | Can I trigger a state in a charm? | 20:11 |
| marcoceppi | Like an install error? | 20:11 |
| m_3 | heck, it's the ruby community... constant flux | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: exiting install with return code != 0 will trigger install_error | 20:11 |
| SpamapS | m_3: but there are tons of awesome ruby tools that use gems, like sup :) | 20:12 |
| marcoceppi | SpamapS: What about during a config change which is doing an install? Should I just exit > 0 and walk away as the explosion goes off in the background? | 20:12 |
| SpamapS | m_3: so there is a need to stabilize and support those tools while not hampering people using gems. Thats why gems puts stuff in /usr/local :) | 20:12 |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: that will be config_error then | 20:12 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: that'd be a good feature in general... the ability to set status... far wishlist though | 20:12 |
| marcoceppi | Okay, I'll just exit 2 or something | 20:13 |
| * m_3 likes the visual of calmly walking away from the explosion | 20:13 | |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: can you explain further what you're trying to accomplish? | 20:15 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: I see... so the process of taking a gem and stabilizing it into a package is the key | 20:16 |
| marcoceppi | SpamapS: During phpMyAdmin charm, if you switch to or from upstream it essentially reinstalls PMA and sets it up again. I want to capture an "Install Fail" | 20:16 |
| hazmat | we talked about manually poking transitions/states but backed off as it was very implementation oriented | 20:16 |
| m_3 | hazmat: gotcha | 20:17 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: http://devastatingexplosions.com/ | 20:17 |
| m_3 | favorite | 20:17 |
| m_3 | site | 20:17 |
| m_3 | ever | 20:17 |
| m_3 | blows away jono's sad trombone... literally | 20:18 |
| jcastro | how is this not hooked up to juju destroy-environment yet? | 20:19 |
| jcastro | just open the browser and do it | 20:19 |
| marcoceppi | +1 | 20:19 |
| m_3 | nice | 20:19 |
| * marcoceppi aliases command | 20:19 | |
| jcastro | so hey guys I had a new thought as I read jelmer and poolie talking about a launchpad charm | 20:23 |
| jcastro | a use case I don't think we've put alot of concious effort into so I thought I'd just put it out there. | 20:24 |
| jcastro | Charming a complicated service -> lower entry for contribution | 20:24 |
| jcastro | so like if you ever remember LP hacking in the old days, vs. what a full charm would look like | 20:24 |
| m_3 | yeah, they were talking about a pushbutton ec2 lp test env... perfect for a charm | 20:25 |
| jcastro | right, but usually with charms I am thinking "if you make a charm, users can use your service quickly." | 20:25 |
| m_3 | jcastro: oh, saw you filed the bug | 20:26 |
| jcastro | and I rarely think about using it as a way to get a project's code in contributor hands | 20:26 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: so.. the tests are destructive to $HOME/.ssh (if they fail halfway through you get weird stuff in known_hosts and authorized_keys) | 21:09 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: ssh makes it near impossible to override ~/.ssh ... so I'm going to just skip all peer tests if ~/.ssh exists. | 21:09 |
| marcoceppi | Dash experts, for dash functions, if you call $1 and there is no param passed will it go nuts? | 21:11 |
| marcoceppi | Er, nvm | 21:12 |
| marcoceppi | I'm having a hard time figuring out what this error means: lib/common.sh: 1: 1: parameter not set | 21:12 |
| SpamapS | with -u, yes | 21:12 |
| marcoceppi | OH | 21:12 |
| SpamapS | ${1:-''} | 21:13 |
| marcoceppi | pft, -u | 21:13 |
| marcoceppi | Thank you! | 21:13 |
| SpamapS | Its silly, but it forces you to think about whether or not it is optional. | 21:13 |
| marcoceppi | in this case, it is | 21:14 |
| marcoceppi | but still, good to know | 21:14 |
| marcoceppi | I've been so honed in on this issue, I forgot what I was testing originally | 21:15 |
| SpamapS | -u forces shell to be at least a *little* more like a real language | 21:15 |
| SpamapS | marcoceppi: try and test that, you're bound to get served | 21:16 |
| marcoceppi | SpamapS: it works now :) | 21:17 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: lovin... is what I got | 21:17 |
| m_3 | totally stuck in my head now, thanks | 21:18 |
| * SpamapS can play the m_3-tar like a mutha-#$@!in riot! | 21:19 | |
| m_3 | unhuh | 21:19 |
| jrgifford | m_3: rvm or rbenv? I only use rvm, apparently rbenv is "nicer" though. . . | 21:23 |
| m_3 | jrgifford: either... same here, I've heard good things about rbenv but haven't used it yet myself | 21:26 |
| SpamapS | man, I kind of want to write a charm in ruby now just because I'm tired of shell | 21:33 |
| m_3 | yeah, it's nice to have hashes, scope, and real fn args | 21:36 |
| SpamapS | https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/charm-tools/buildd-fixes-part-deux/+merge/86753 | 21:37 |
| SpamapS | Would appreciate a second pair of eyes on this | 21:37 |
| SpamapS | nijaba: ^^ changes ch_peer_scp's API | 21:37 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: Finally, phpmyadmin is done! | 21:38 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: rockin! | 21:38 |
| marcoceppi | I'd love a final look-over if you don't mind, before doing all that prog stuff | 21:38 |
| m_3 | love those commit msgs that start with "Apparently I smoke crack now..." | 21:40 |
| SpamapS | :) | 21:41 |
| * SpamapS would like to remind everybody that bzr *does* have a rebase plugin if you accidentally "drunk commit" | 21:41 | |
| jelmer | SpamapS: I thought drunk committing was the whole use case for DVCSes ? | 21:44 |
| SpamapS | jelmer: its a corner case I'd say.. though, quite a lively corner. | 21:45 |
| marcoceppi | SpamapS: It's too, non-intuitive. I like the way git handles it :) | 21:46 |
| marcoceppi | Furthermore, all of my commits are drunken. | 21:46 |
| * SpamapS has yet to find something he likes in git | 21:47 | |
| SpamapS | :-/ | 21:47 |
| SpamapS | I feel like I'm the only one. | 21:47 |
| marcoceppi | SpamapS, you're the only one :) | 21:47 |
| m_3 | +1 | 21:48 |
| m_3 | git fanboy parade | 21:48 |
| SpamapS | some day you guys can show me why it doesn't suck :P | 21:48 |
| mchenetz | git tulez! | 21:49 |
| mchenetz | rulez! | 21:49 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: so, in meta/<ip-addr>, you use "server_name" | 21:49 |
| m_3 | what you assign to it isn't a hostname though... it's the _service_ name | 21:50 |
| marcoceppi | Right, it still uses the IP | 21:51 |
| marcoceppi | I thought you could put a "nickname" for servers in PMA but you can't | 21:51 |
| marcoceppi | so it's moot to have it, for now | 21:51 |
| marcoceppi | but service name is better verbiage | 21:51 |
| m_3 | but server_name=${JUJU_REMOTE_UNIT%%/*} isn't going to be any kind of address | 21:52 |
| marcoceppi | right, it's just the service name | 21:52 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: I've renamed it to service_name | 21:55 |
| marcoceppi | Though, it still not currently used. It's just there for future ideas | 21:55 |
| m_3 | ah, ok I was digging around through phpmyadmin config to see where it was used | 21:55 |
| marcoceppi | m_3: I could have sworn you could set the "name" of a server in PMA config, but alas you can't | 21:57 |
| marcoceppi | When/if I figure out a way I'd like upgrading to be easy for people :) | 21:58 |
| marcoceppi | actually, maybe the file should be the name of the service. | 21:58 |
| negronjl | SpamapS: I approved https://code.launchpad.net/~clint-fewbar/charm-tools/buildd-fixes-part-deux/+merge/86753 | 22:03 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: cool... looks good | 22:13 |
| marcoceppi | Cool, I'm out for a drink, when I get home I'll prog it up, blog it up, and ping jcastro | 22:13 |
| jcastro | marcoceppi: I'll be in the usual places | 22:13 |
| jcastro | SpamapS: you still owe me a blog! | 22:13 |
| robbiew | jcastro crackin da whip! | 22:17 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: its in draft :) | 22:23 |
| m_3 | marcoceppi: finished... go ahead and promulgate please | 22:23 |
| m_3 | jcastro: phpmyadmin is out the gate | 22:23 |
| jcastro | \o/ | 22:25 |
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