[00:00] <paln> yea got really old Debian CDs (woody I think) and some Suse shit with a DVD that has fedora red hat and Ubuntu hardy on it
[00:03] <paln> zleap: how old are you?
[00:03] <paln> I'm only 14
[00:03] <zleap> 36
[00:04] <paln> got interested in computers from the age of like 8
[00:04] <zleap> same here
[00:04] <paln> well, interested in the workings anyway
[00:04] <paln> I was always addicted to oca
[00:04] <paln> PCs
[00:04] <zleap> well 10 i guess but i was using games consoles before that
[00:04] <paln> typo
[00:04] <paln> tht pc I was discussing with AlanBell
[00:06] <zleap> wood is debian 3 iirc
[00:06] <zleap> woody
[00:07] <zleap> right i have posted an e-mail to the list with the whole out put listed,
[00:07] <zleap> see if I get any help from that
[00:08] <zleap> paln you seen this www.raspberrypi.org
[00:08] <zleap> arm based mini computer
[00:10] <directhex> armv6 :/
[00:11] <zleap> yeah
[00:11] <directhex> so it can't boot ubuntu :)
[00:11] <paln> zleap: yea I have
[00:11] <paln> on omg Ubuntu
[00:11] <zleap> looks pretty good i think
[00:12] <zleap> i just wondered what theywill put in any IT programming related curriculum though
[00:12] <paln> true
[00:12] <directhex> IT has always been secretary training, and always will be
[00:12] <zleap> yeah
[00:12] <paln> I'm doing a BTEC IT course right now
[00:12] <directhex> programming has no place in secretarial classes
[00:12] <zleap> even programming will be business related
[00:13] <paln> all it is is working with MS Access ATM
[00:13] <zleap> e;g wirite a program to connect to a data base containing business data
[00:13] <directhex> word training, excel training, powerpoint training. that's IT.
[00:13] <zleap> rather than what would work with students at school write a game with a database back end
[00:13] <paln> directhex: I know exactly what u mean
[00:13] <zleap> I think they want Computing and IT
[00:14] <zleap> computing being programming etc, thing is during the 80;s we just got on with it at home and did far better teaching ourselves than any teacher could in most cases
[00:14] <paln> but programming is a different story
[00:14] <directhex> i never did IT at GCSE or higher level. i already knew how to drive excel
[00:14] <directhex> computer science a-level though
[00:14] <directhex> VERY rare to be available
[00:14] <paln> I know this great site wibit.net for programming tutorials
[00:15] <zleap> you heard of  snake wrangling for kids (python book)
[00:15] <directhex> during the 80's kids were trained to be programmers, courtesy of the BBC
[00:15] <paln> zleap: nope
[00:15] <directhex> and shock horror, in the 90s the UK was the global powerhouse in games development
[00:15] <zleap> and sinclair, commodore etc
[00:15] <directhex> totally unrelated, i'm sure
[00:15] <zleap> this is the aim of the raspberryPI
[00:15] <paln> directhex: never knew that
[00:15] <zleap> only programmikng needs t be fun
[00:16] <paln> take a look at some of the programming in C vids on wibit.net
[00:16] <paln> there pretty funny at times
[00:17] <directhex> we've had successions of political leaders who view subjects like computing as a joke, so go out of their way to sideline them in favour of stuff they perceive as more important
[00:17] <directhex> for the UK to be #1, every child should be taught to code just as much as they're taught chemistry or physics
[00:17] <paln> directhex: very true
[00:17] <paln> directhex: but I don't agree with you there
[00:17] <zleap> surely its about thinking skills too
[00:18] <zleap> if people want to do programming they should be encouraged, helped, etc
[00:18] <paln> directhex: students should have a passion for the subject
[00:18] <zleap> paln,  i agree there
[00:18] <directhex> paln, yes, but how do you provide sufficient exposure to *everyone* for a passion to form in kids who aren't naturally predisposed?
[00:19] <zleap> also if u did gcse computing its exam based, whenin the real world is a development task like an exam, in the real world you collaborate on projects
[00:19] <paln> however technology is becoming a larger part of our lives, and always has been
[00:19] <directhex> if you make comsci elective, the only ones who try it will be white males with glasses and at least one PC at home
[00:19] <directhex> there's a reason they force-feed a bunch of subjects to everyone
[00:19] <zleap> if you look at the gold and platinum ingots to pass you HAVE to do X hours of real world project work in OSS
[00:20] <zleap> so help with a project in someway,  not just programming but say writing docs etc
[00:20] <directhex> not everyone takes those on to a-level or degree, but everyone gets a grounding
[00:20] <paln> u both have points, but even if the governments wanted to implement a scheme like this, t would take at least a decade to become mainstream in schools nationwide
[00:20] <zleap> plus you need the teachers to teach it,  to me that should be Ex industry people
[00:20] <zleap> so people who have been there, done programming etc,
[00:21] <paln> zleap: obviously necessary
[00:21] <zleap> but how many teachers come from school to uni, to teaching
[00:21] <paln> teachers without real world experience would just be plain useless
[00:21] <directhex> paln, i suggest you look into the history of the BBC Computer Literacy Project
[00:21] <paln> unless its theory
[00:22] <paln> directhex: will do , sit
[00:22] <paln> *sir
[00:22] <zleap> even in other topics such as enginnering a good teacher who has done a job can share experiencs and stories to make lessons far more interesting and dynamic and they inspire people
[00:22] <paln> or does Jo Shields imply you're a woman?
[00:22] <paln> sorry.. :/
[00:22] <gordonjcp> paln: have you ever met any teachers?
[00:22] <directhex> paln, plus there's the BBC dramatization Micro Men, which is fun to watch
[00:23] <gordonjcp> when I moved down to Glasgow about a decade ago my then-gf was sharing a flat with two primary school teachers
[00:23] <paln> I'm 14, so I've only ever encountered teachers for IT when I have my IT classes
[00:23] <gordonjcp> they were interested in almost *nothing*
[00:24] <paln> and so I only know teachers on a school basis
[00:24] <gordonjcp> they'd come in, Jen would maybe go to rugby practice (okay, she was a keen rugby player on the Strathclyde Uni women's team)
[00:24] <zleap> most teachers I have experience with  can use a computer for what they need,  asking them to teach IT may not work
[00:24] <gordonjcp> and then it would be a fun-filled night of the Friends box set and bacardi and coke
[00:24] <gordonjcp> and occasionally, bacardi and coke and coca-cola
[00:24] <paln> gordonjcp: lol
[00:25] <gordonjcp> the two of them got through a frankly astounding amount of prang
[00:25] <paln> brb
[00:25] <zleap> k
[00:25] <gordonjcp> paln: just wait until you meet your teachers socially after you've left school
[00:26] <zleap> i would much rather see people join the ubuntu or OSS comminity with a willingness to learn
[00:26] <gordonjcp> think the most embarrassing "meeting teachers in a social setting" was when I was in sixth year and a couple of friends and I bumped into three of our teachers in the pub
[00:26] <gordonjcp> when we'd gone off a bit early for a wee pub lunch
[00:26] <gordonjcp> ... and they'd done the same thing
[00:26] <zleap> oops
[00:26] <zleap> i takeit you mean sixth form
[00:26] <gordonjcp> we just kind of nodded in mutual recognition and never spoke of it
[00:26] <gordonjcp> yes
[00:26] <zleap> as to me sixth year is like last year at primary
[00:27] <gordonjcp> ah, no, in Scotland that's the same as sixth form
[00:27] <gordonjcp> ie. 17-18
[00:27] <zleap> ah
[00:27] <hamitron> zleap, and 6th form?
[00:27] <zleap> ok i get it
[00:27] <hamitron> I just wondered if it is still called 6th form
[00:27] <hamitron> :)
[00:28]  * gordonjcp doesn't know
[00:28] <zleap> yes
[00:28] <gordonjcp> it was 20 years ago now...
[00:28] <zleap> also key stage 5 i think
[00:28] <hamitron> key stage?
[00:28] <zleap> national curriculim
[00:28] <hamitron> where they learn how to pick locks of level 5
[00:28] <hamitron> :/
[00:29] <zleap> so reception KS 1/2 = primary 3 secondary >14 14 - 16 = ks 4 and ks5 is As and A level
[00:30] <hamitron> I guess numbering things in order is to help the younger generation to count ;)
[00:31] <hamitron> unfortunately, I never reaped the benefits of such a system
[00:31] <hamitron> \o/
[00:31] <hamitron> 3 of my friends became teachers
[00:32] <hamitron> but they only did it because they sort of failed at uni
[00:32] <hamitron> :/
[00:32]  * hamitron does wonder if they are the right people for such a task
[00:34] <paln> haha
[00:34] <zleap> those who can, do those who can't, teach
[00:35] <zleap> apply that to programming and all the top programmers will do that job,  those that fail will end up teaching if you apply that statement
[00:35] <paln> zleap: nice analogy
[00:35] <zleap> thanks
[00:35] <hamitron> tbh, listening to the nice wages teachers get, I've been tempted
[00:35] <hamitron> :)
[00:35] <paln> anyways, night guys, i just realised ts half past tomorrow
[00:36] <zleap> ok nite
[00:36] <paln> well now it's today
[00:36] <paln> but whatever
[00:36] <zleap> 3 days till xmas too
[00:36] <paln> bye!!!
[00:36] <zleap> bye
[00:36] <paln> zleap: yep
[00:36] <hamitron> I need someone to write my xmas cards :/
[00:36] <zleap> oh well back to re-installing windows tomorrow so i can print
[00:46] <zleap> what has happened to the search routine
[00:52] <zleap> why does locate say a file exists when it does not even exist
[00:54] <Nafallo> because it got removed between cron.daily and now?
[00:54] <Nafallo> if you want live results, use find.
[00:58] <directhex> evening Nafallo
[01:00] <Nafallo> night rather :-P. hi there directhex
[01:01] <zleap> ok
[07:22] <paln> !seen AlanBell
[07:25] <paln> hey
[07:29] <paln> hey
[07:34] <paln> hey mardi
[07:44] <paln> AlanBell: You there?
[07:47] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:49] <gordonjcp> morning
[08:43] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:53] <danfish> did czajkowski get home yesterday?
[08:53] <MooDoo> danfish: as far as i remember she did!
[08:53] <danfish> MooDoo: a christmas miracle ;)
[08:53] <czajkowski> danfish: I did indeed
[08:54] <paln> list
[08:54] <czajkowski> with only an hr delayed in total so not too bad
[08:55] <danfish> yeah! Is the emerald isle a christmas wonderland this year?
[08:55]  * danfish did the xmas food shopping at 0600 this am. No queues :)
[08:57] <czajkowski> danfish: no it's really mild and long may it stay that way
[09:00] <BigRedS> yeah, I do not understand this desire for christmas to be bitterly cold
[09:14] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:14] <MooDoo> morning
[09:14] <AlanBell> o/ paln
[09:21] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: cheeky ! :)
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Surprised?
[09:25] <czajkowski> nope not really
[09:25] <czajkowski> its very you :)
[09:25] <czajkowski> *it's
[09:25] <paln> hey guys
[09:26] <paln> what we talking about?
[09:26] <BigRedS> The word "awesome"
[09:27] <MooDoo> making sure czajkowski got home safe and she did
[09:27] <paln> really?
[09:27] <MooDoo> BigRedS: awsome,
[09:27] <BigRedS> MooDoo: really? Awesome!
[09:27] <paln> BigRedS: lol
[09:27] <paln> who's  czajkowski
[09:27] <MooDoo> paln: it's her ----------->
[09:28] <MooDoo> paln: https://launchpad.net/~czajkowski
[09:28] <paln> what are you pointing to MooDoo
[09:28] <MooDoo> paln: i'm pointing to laura :D
[09:29] <AlanBell> so what is everyone up to for Christmas?
[09:29] <paln> is  czajkowski Laura then I presume?
[09:29] <czajkowski> I am
[09:29] <MooDoo> paln: maybe a better link - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski
[09:29] <paln> AlanBell: yay it's you again! :P
[09:29] <AlanBell> yus
[09:29] <MooDoo> paln: a very active member of the ubuntu community and part of the loco coucil and various others....
[09:30] <paln> MooDoo: cool
[09:30] <MooDoo> AlanBell: working boxing day, other than that, spending time with family
[09:30] <MooDoo> and playing with my new camera :D
[09:30] <paln> I need to use XChat -- I'm on an iPhone ATM
[09:31] <AlanBell> snowman looked a bit lonely without some snowflakes
[09:31] <MooDoo> looks like AlanBell is being a smarty pants :)
[09:31] <paln> AlanBell: say, if I order a CD and take that pesky RAM off your hands, how muh do you think p+p would be?
[09:32] <paln> AlanBell: lol at the snowflakes
[09:32]  * paln smiles gleefully
[09:32] <AlanBell> paln: second class large stamp on the inside and outside of the stamped addressed envelope
[09:33] <paln> so basically you're gonna know my address
[09:33] <paln> oh no...
[09:33] <AlanBell> shock horror!
[09:33] <paln> STALKER!!
[09:33] <AlanBell> and you will know mine first
[09:33] <paln> I know, I just realised
[09:33] <AlanBell> STALKER!!
[09:33] <paln> AlanBell: copied and pasted
[09:34] <paln> alright then , I might do that ;)
[09:35] <paln> I got a duck for Christmas yay!
[09:35] <paln> they only had while turkeys and nobody's coming round for Xmas dinner
[09:35] <paln> * whole
[09:37] <paln> no! you've all left me to die on IRC!
[09:38] <paln> seriously though, where've you guys gone?
[09:38] <AlanBell> everyone is here
[09:38] <AlanBell> but mostly at work and stuff
[09:39] <paln> ah...
[09:39]  * BigRedS admits to doing some work for a change
[09:39] <paln> well I don't understand "work", being a teen
[09:39] <popey> Morning all
[09:39] <paln> popey: I remember you!
[09:39] <popey> Ruh Roh
[09:39] <BigRedS> actually, no, I got distracted writing an awesome one-liner that doesn't really save any time
[09:39] <paln> from sometime last year
[09:39] <popey> is that good or bad?
[09:40] <paln> AlanBell: I asked popey the same question I asked you
[09:40] <paln> alas, Lubuntu was kinda crap back then
[09:40] <paln> popey: yes...why wouldn't it be?
[09:40] <popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/15/%23ubuntu-uk.html#t18:52
[09:40] <popey> ^^^ when you were here in 2010 ☺
[09:42] <daubers> Morning
[09:45] <kvarley> Is there a way in an SSH session that I can open a file on the SSH server for editing with a local text editor on the client system? (gedit, for example)
[09:46] <paln> popey: I just read through
[09:46] <popey> kvarley: yes
[09:46] <popey> kvarley: sshfs
[09:47] <AlanBell> kvarley: in nautilus file-connect to server then choose ssh
[09:47] <AlanBell> it is then accessible in gedit and most gnome applications
[09:47] <paln> popey: how did you find that log so quickly?
[09:47] <popey> I am awesome with google skills
[09:48] <paln> popey: google? irc chat logs are indexed by google? I did not know that.
[09:48] <kvarley> AlanBell: Thank you, I forgot to mention though that I'm on lubuntu not straight ubuntu. So I only have access to PCManFM
[09:48] <popey> yes
[09:48] <popey> paln uk site:irclogs.ubuntu.com
[09:48] <AlanBell> kvarley: in that case sshfs all the way as popey said
[09:48] <popey> is what I searched for
[09:49] <kvarley> popey: sshfs is brilliant!
[09:50] <AlanBell> sshfs works with everything too
[09:50] <kvarley> popey: Next question is...How do I end the session and unmount the fs from the directory I mounted it too?
[09:50] <paln> popey: I know I've been using t a lot
[09:50] <popey> kvarley: umount
[09:50] <paln> I just didn't know google indexed that site
[09:50] <kvarley> popey: Ah ok, that will close the session tidily?
[09:50] <popey> kvarley: assuming files are closed, ya
[09:51] <kvarley> popey: Ok, thanks for the help...Again =D
[09:51] <ali1234> X11 forwarding gedit fromt he remote machine is a lot less hassle
[09:51] <BigRedS> paln: google indexes everything
[09:51] <kvarley> ali1234: sshfs is rediculously simple too
[09:51] <paln> BigRedS: not everything
[09:52] <paln> just about 99.999 recurring % of things
[09:52] <BigRedS> well, everything you don't specifically ask it to not
[09:53] <paln> BigRedS: yeah...
[09:55] <paln> AlanBell: could you hand me a link to the instructions for getting a free cd? or just write them here or something?
[09:55] <AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[09:59] <HazRPG> heyo \o
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yo yo yo!
[10:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sup dude ^_^
[10:00] <HazRPG> strangely enough, I'm looking forward to going to Egypt
[10:01] <HazRPG> I will be there before new years :) (just in time for my mum's birthday)
[10:02] <HazRPG> is there a way to stop unity for having my mod4+T as my bin shortcut... because I prefer using that for terminal
[10:03] <kvarley> popey: How can I mount the sshfs in /media without manually creating a directory there. Like with my hard drive partitions, they are automatically mounted there with the drive ID or label.
[10:03] <popey> pass
[10:03] <ali1234> you can't
[10:04] <kvarley> lol
[10:04] <kvarley> ok
[10:04] <kvarley> thanks anyway
[10:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: Can't it be scripted?
[10:04] <kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Yes, I was just wondering if there way a magic way lol
[10:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.debuntu.org/2006/04/27/39-mounting-a-fuse-filesystem-form-etcfstab
[10:04] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> sshfs#my-remote-user@my-remote-host:/home/my-remote-user /my-local-filesystem/remotefs fuse defaults 0 0
[10:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> An line for fstab
[10:12] <paln> do you think I could get SDR ram higher than 512mb
[10:12] <kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Thanks =]
[10:13] <paln> HazRPG: lol same
[10:13] <paln> as me
[10:13] <HazRPG> paln: the bin shortcut?
[10:13] <HazRPG> oh the mod4+t shortcut ^_^
[10:14] <HazRPG> yeah its currently irritating me that it opens the bin instead of respecting my keyboard shortcuts :(
[10:14] <paln> HazRPG: haha yea I used Win+T up to natty when they switched to Unity
[10:14] <paln> I prefer unity, but that shortcut pissed me off at first
[10:14] <paln> I've got used to Ctrl-Alt-T since
[10:15] <HazRPG> ctrl+alt+t does nothing on mine :P
[10:15] <HazRPG> I think its cos I have it configured to win+t
[10:15] <paln> HazRPG: hehe I also use Ctrl-Shift-Esc to open gnome-system-monitor
[10:16] <monsterwizard> computer systems <3
[10:16] <paln> like task manager in XP and above
[10:16] <paln> monsterwizard: i guess machines do have feelings
[10:16] <HazRPG> paln: heh, I never use gnome-system-monitor, I find its too much of a resource hog >_<, so I use htop (much thanks to AlanBell who recommended me it about a year ago :))
[10:16] <monsterwizard> towards me ?
[10:17] <paln> they want to stuff you in the trash rather than open a console
[10:17] <HazRPG> paln: htop is a terminal tool though, but I find its more effective :)
[10:17] <paln> HazRPG: I only ever use it to kill processes
[10:17] <paln> that or kill all in the terminal
[10:18] <paln> * killall
[10:18] <HazRPG> hehe
[10:18] <paln> ive really got nothing to do at the moment , so I'm watching iCarly on nickelodeon :P
[10:19] <HazRPG> heh
[10:19] <paln> but it's my sisters friends sons birthday today so I'm going to the party and some play area
[10:19] <paln> he's 3
[10:20] <paln> and my sisters friend is also my friends cousin
[10:20] <paln> small world
[10:20] <popey> gord: did you see HazRPG's question? are the shortcuts used by unity hard-wired? like Win+T for Trash (Rubbish bin!)
[10:21] <bigcalm> Waste Basket
[10:21] <bigcalm> Using xubuntu-desktop I get to see all 3 versions!
[10:21] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/mbp-oneiric-20111222-1.png
[10:21] <paln> popey: I hate how Ubuntu uses American English
[10:21] <HazRPG> popey: thanks dude :)
[10:21] <popey> hmmmmmmm
[10:21] <popey> paln: where does it use american english?
[10:21] <paln> but it's trash on the unity launcher and wastebasket in nautilus
[10:22] <popey> blame GNOME
[10:22] <popey> I keep trying to get that fixed
[10:22] <ali1234> it says rubbish bin on mine
[10:22] <paln> popey: quite often, actually
[10:22] <popey> its rubbish bin on mine too
[10:22] <AlanBell> rubbish bin on the unity launcher and rubbish bin in nautilus for me
[10:22] <paln> popey: yea, I might as well
[10:22] <paln> but I use unity, so that's really plausible(!)
[10:23] <popey> so any suggestions for speeding up boot of my laptop ^^^
[10:23] <ali1234> install gentoo
[10:23] <paln> popey: get a chrome book and stick Linux on it
[10:23] <paln> that's all I got
[10:23] <bigcalm> paln: is everything set to use en_gb?
[10:24] <HazRPG> I just upgraded to 11.04 yesterday, but I can also confirm it says rubbish bin on both - however! In the "location bar" it shows "trash:///"
[10:24] <paln> popey: oh you could change the GDP mode of GRUB2 or whatever you're using to 800x600
[10:24] <paln> bigcalm: yep, I always run through the settings when I install something
[10:24] <HazRPG> paln: technically a chrome book /is/ has a linux O/S on it
[10:24] <paln> I have OCD like that :D
[10:25] <paln> HazRPG: even better, means that it won't be slower at all ! :P
[10:25] <bigcalm> paln: OCD? Don't start playing minecraft then :P
[10:25] <paln> * GDP is sposed to be GFX
[10:26]  * popey removes landscape-client
[10:26] <paln> bigcalm: I'm not a big fan of FPS games
[10:26] <popey> hehe
[10:26] <popey> it's not so much a FPS, as an FPC game
[10:26] <paln> fpc?
[10:26] <popey> creation
[10:26] <paln> ah
[10:26] <popey> construction
[10:27] <popey> whatever ☺
[10:27] <popey> not shooter
[10:27] <BigRedS> First Person CAD
[10:27] <paln> plus, I only have a wii a pap and a ds lite
[10:27] <popey> unless you like firing arrows from a bow at skellingtons
[10:27] <popey> haha
[10:27] <paln> BigRedS: lol google sketch up for Xbox
[10:27] <HazRPG> popey: oh, heh... speeding up the boot of your system, get an SSD ;D
[10:28] <paln> *pap is psp
[10:28] <paln> I'm beginning to despise autocorrect
[10:28] <paln> but it's great most of the time
[10:28] <popey> HazRPG: my desktop with ssd.. http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/wopr-precise-20111222-1.png
[10:28] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:28] <popey> HazRPG: i removed the ssd because i need the space in my laptop
[10:28] <paln> HazRPG: yea, that's cheap enough(!)
[10:29] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/mbp-oneiric-20111222-2.png gah, worse
[10:29] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ahhhh, good morning squire ^_^
[10:30] <HazRPG> popey: ah!
[10:30] <HazRPG> paln: I plan to get an SSD for ubuntu :)
[10:30] <brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, long time no speak.
[10:30] <HazRPG> paln: media (music, etc) will be placed on normal mediums... since you don't really get much benefit from stuff like that
[10:31] <HazRPG> brobostigon: indeed, indeed!
[10:31] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[10:31] <paln> irc for iPhone just crashed
[10:32] <HazRPG> brobostigon: how's things?
[10:32] <HazRPG> paln: ouch
[10:32] <paln> stupid overflow of memory
[10:32] <brobostigon> HazRPG: not bad, could be better, my eczema is having another bad time,and i feel alittle ill, dry throat, headache etc. and you ?
[10:33] <HazRPG> popey: I just realised, that png you linked, that says your on kernel 3.2... is that what comes with 11.10? (my next upgrade later today)
[10:33] <paln> brobostigon: I have the sniffles :P
[10:33] <popey> HazRPG: which png?
[10:33] <HazRPG> popey: http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/wopr-precise-20111222-1.png
[10:33] <popey> HazRPG: look at the url
[10:33] <popey> precise ☺
[10:33] <popey> 12.04
[10:33] <brobostigon> paln: hope you feel better soon.
[10:34] <paln> brobostigon: just mild sneezing every so often
[10:34] <HazRPG> popey: oh, heh, yeah... keep forgetting that's what 12.04 is going to be called
[10:34] <paln> I had worse last week
[10:34] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch dude, hope things ya feel better soon
[10:34] <paln> Precise Pangolin
[10:34] <paln> what's a pangolin?
[10:34] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm alright, been away for a while because I've been sorting out my move to Egypt
[10:34] <paln> thy should have called it Pesky Python
[10:35] <paln> HazRPG: but that'll mean you won't be in the uk anymore!
[10:35] <HazRPG> s/things//*
[10:35] <paln> well have to be ban you from this channel
[10:35] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope so aswell. ah, yes, i did see something on the mailing list, you mentionaing it.
[10:36] <HazRPG> paln: heh, nah... you'd be surprised the number of people on here that aren't actually in the UK :P
[10:36]  * brobostigon is in his own country, called taylorworld :)
[10:36] <paln> so anyway, I downloaded Damn Small, does anyone recommend it?
[10:36] <HazRPG> paln: at the end of the day, I'm still a brit... and I still use the en-gb versions of stuff...
[10:36] <paln> over Lubuntu, that is
[10:37] <paln> HazRPG: fair say
[10:37] <paln> I'm an Indian
[10:37] <paln> well British citizen
[10:37] <AlanBell> popey: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/alanlaptop-oneiric-20111220-2.png :(
[10:37] <HazRPG> paln: there ya go... still a brit at the end of the day :P
[10:37] <paln> so is my mother, but my dad had moved here
[10:37] <AlanBell> why is my bootchart so unhappy?
[10:37] <paln> my mothers parents were Indian though
[10:37] <paln> AlanBell: boot chart?
[10:38] <HazRPG> brobostigon: can't remember if I mentioned it on the mailing list, but defo on here
[10:38] <HazRPG> paln: mine is the other way round, mother is egyptian, dad is english
[10:39] <popey> AlanBell: you have a lot of crap on that
[10:39] <popey> AlanBell: snort, webcamstudio, there's something getting compiled there...
[10:39] <HazRPG> paln: mine is the other way round, mother is egyptian, dad is english
[10:39] <paln>  irc crashed again when I clicked that link you gave AlanBell
[10:39] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope it goes well, moving is very stressful and pressured, and a total nightmare.
[10:39] <AlanBell> I did just remove snort
[10:39] <HazRPG> brobostigon: it is :(
[10:39] <AlanBell> didn't know I had webcamstudio
[10:40] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I leave just before new year
[10:40] <popey> right, thats it, I'm upgrading to 12.04 on my laptop
[10:40] <AlanBell> removed it now
[10:40] <paln> popey: what for?
[10:40] <brobostigon> HazRPG: pretty soon, good luck.
[10:40] <paln> it may be an lts, but it's still in alpha
[10:40] <HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
[10:40] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[10:41] <popey> AlanBell: you may find next boot faster as it wont do ureadahead
[10:41] <popey> paln: because I can
[10:41] <paln> popey: alrighty then
[10:42]  * PalN wants to know more IRC commands!
[10:42] <HazRPG> PalN: depends on your client dude
[10:43] <PalN> really?
[10:43] <PalN> I use XChat but ATM I'm using LimeChat for iPhone
[10:44] <jutnux> IRSSI is for #winners ;-)
[10:44] <HazRPG> popey: I have a feeling the bin shortcut might actually be hard coded... :(
[10:44] <PalN> jutnux: then why have I never heard of it :P
[10:45] <HazRPG> PalN: apt-get install irssi ;D
[10:46] <brobostigon> PalN: it is a cli/terminal irc client.
[10:46] <PalN> I could have figured that out, just I've never heard of IRSSI :D
[10:46] <PalN> ah
[10:48] <PalN> popey: I've always wondered what ureadahead was as I've seen it pop up during booting jolicloud a few times
[10:49] <jutnux> PalN: It's a bit of a pain to configure.
[10:49] <PalN> jutnux: but in essence, what is it?
[10:49] <bigcalm> There are no short cut key combos in xfce :(
[10:50] <bigcalm> My super key is less than super
[10:50]  * paln prefers lowercase nickname
[10:50] <paln> bigcalm: lol
[10:51] <paln> what happened to the front key?
[10:51] <paln> why is it not in use anymore?
[10:51] <paln> and fourth level too
[10:52] <paln>  
[10:53] <paln> bigcalm: and I thought there were key combos in xfce
[10:55] <bigcalm> There possibly are, but I haven't found them yet
[10:55] <bigcalm> Or the xubuntu-desktop installation of xfce has stripped them out
[10:55] <bigcalm> *shrug*
[10:56] <paln> did you guys hear about the girl who hated Ubuntu?
[10:56] <paln> it was on the news in 2007 in the us and posted on omg Ubuntu sometime last year
[10:57] <paln> pretty funny story
[10:57] <jutnux> PalN: Sorry about the late reply, it's a cli irc client and it's extremely powerful and doesn't use much ram.
[10:58] <paln> jutnux: I got an answer from  HazRPG earlier ;)
[10:58] <popey> aquarius: hows your U300 getting on?
[10:58] <aquarius> it is loveliness
[10:58] <HazRPG> paln: oh?
[10:58] <popey> ☺
[10:59] <bigcalm> aquarius: oh, you finally bit the bullet and bought a laptop?
[10:59] <popey> aquarius: that guy who had issues booting USB sticks was down to the fedora live cd to usb stick script he used ☺
[10:59] <paln> I meant brobostigon
[10:59] <aquarius> bigcalm, I did indeed
[10:59] <aquarius> popey, ha!
[10:59] <popey> my local pcworld doesnt have them in stock ☹
[11:00] <bigcalm> aquarius: shame, I was enjoying the hardware ranty tweets ;)
[11:00] <aquarius> popey, denied!
[11:00] <popey> aquarius: you are obliged to write a blog post with pictures and hardware details about how great it is, just to annoy me
[11:00] <aquarius> popey, I did that on g+
[11:00] <aquarius> although no pictures
[11:00] <AlanBell> is there any confirmation that Ubuntu will run on the ausus transformer prime yet?
[11:00] <aquarius> I need to do something on the blog as well
[11:01] <paln> I want google+
[11:01] <popey> AlanBell: we haven't got one yet
[11:01] <jutnux> Google+ \o/
[11:01] <popey> people in the community might have tried
[11:01] <paln> stupid age restriction
[11:01] <bigcalm> The minimum age isn't 13?
[11:01] <popey> I have a transformer, not a prime, but not got ubuntu on it
[11:02] <paln> transformer prime. reminds me of a big red truck that turns into a robot
[11:02] <bigcalm> popey: know if you'll get ics on it?
[11:02] <popey> pass
[11:02] <popey> transformer is a dumb name for a tablet
[11:02] <popey> utterly ungoogleable
[11:02] <paln> bigcalm: no 18, google needs to sort out the legal
[11:03] <paln> popey: lol :D
[11:03] <paln> and transformer prime would bring up what I described a minute ago
[11:04] <paln> otherwise known as...
[11:04] <bigcalm> Optimus
[11:04] <paln> Optimus Prime, archenemy of Megatron, scourge of the Universe
[11:04] <bigcalm> Or Optimus to his friends
[11:04] <paln> bigcalm: whyd you have to beat me to it?
[11:04] <paln> bigcalm: yea ok
[11:05] <bigcalm> :P
[11:05] <bigcalm> Why? I thought it was a question
[11:05] <bigcalm> I grew up with the Transformers cartoons
[11:05] <paln> I needed time to finish my statement
[11:06]  * popey notes this isnt court
[11:06] <paln> brb
[11:07] <jutnux> The latest transformer film was amazinggggg
[11:08]  * bigcalm feels old now
[11:08]  * TheOpenSourcerer is old now
[11:08] <paln> • popey: teehee
[11:09] <paln> jutnux: I didn't see it
[11:09] <bigcalm> Aww, the snow flakes have been removed from flicker.com
[11:09] <jutnux> paln: It was definitely good.
[11:10]  * daubers considers an extravagant lunch
[11:10] <paln> jutnux: I'll watch it on zmovie.eu
[11:10] <bigcalm> Sushi!
[11:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Ubuntu 11.10  Windows lose titlebar - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/ubuntu-11-10-windows-lose-titlebar/
[11:12] <paln> ubuntuuk-planet: I don't get what it does
[11:12] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: happy birthday? :)
[11:12] <paln> cos your titular becomes the top panel
[11:13] <paln> an you can't "lose" the top panel
[11:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> christel: Huh?
[11:13] <christel> oh, i assumed it was your birthday since you were old now
[11:13] <christel> haha
[11:13] <paln> *titular = top panel
[11:13] <christel> i am so slow!
[11:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> No - I've been old for ages ;-)
[11:13] <christel> hehe
[11:14] <paln> TheOpenSourcerer: that's cos ur ages old
[11:14] <paln>  :D I made a funny
[11:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> paln: Don't give up your day job for the stage just yet though
[11:14] <s-fox> Hello.
[11:15] <paln> TheOpenSourcerer: lol much appreciated advice
[11:16] <paln> anyways gotta go now :/
[11:17] <christel> welcome back...
[11:17] <s-fox> How are we all?
[11:18] <jutnux> Happy
[11:18] <s-fox> Why?
[11:19] <andylockran> yay!
[11:21] <jutnux> Because I have the house to myself
[12:14] <BigRedS> Anyone got any recomendations of a book on PHP's internals?
[12:14] <BigRedS> I've no desire to write PHP, but several of the servers I run do, and it'd help if I understood better what it is that I'm configuring
[12:21] <Seeker`> you run servers that have a desire to write PHP?! :P
[12:21] <Seeker`> (Sorry, no idea about PHP internals myself)
[12:22] <BigRedS> haha
[13:54] <smittix> Afternoon
[13:54] <smittix> Stocktake time of year :/
[13:57] <kvarley> Does anybody know of an application that would let me have window snapping when using OpenBox?
[15:08] <Seeker`> wow, I'm doing the wrong job
[15:09] <Seeker`> Tube drivers are striking because they don't get 3x pay + an extra day off if they work bank holidays
[15:16] <popey> common in public sector apparently
[15:16] <KrimZon> what's the command for gnome 2's screen resolution dialog?
[15:16] <Seeker`> and 43 days holiday too. Wow.
[15:16] <popey> gnome-control-panel
[15:16] <popey> gnome-control-center rather
[15:17] <popey> or something ☺
[15:18] <KrimZon> ahh
[15:18] <KrimZon> I ran morrowind in wine and it broke my graphics card somehow
[15:19] <KrimZon> x complains on startup about something or other, then the nvidia control panel says it's not using the nvidia driver
[15:35] <Azelphur> I was up till like 3am last night decoding someones storage method on a plugin, they've stored 137 (~1.3KB) of individual data values inside a single column in an SQL database
[15:35]  * Azelphur cries
[15:36] <BigRedS> haha
[15:37] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/CTPSfqaS this, all in a single column.
[15:43] <KrimZon_2> it brokened :(
[16:13]  * daubers has gained a couple of nerf related injuries
[16:15] <MooDoo> *snigger*
[16:17] <daubers> managed to graze my elbows when I dove behind the sofa to avoid the barrage from my boss
[16:17] <daubers> It's a humongously productive day in the office today.........
[16:17] <Azelphur> daubers: have you seen carpet skates?
[16:18] <daubers> Azelphur: No......
[16:18] <Azelphur> daubers: they are awesome :o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHOzX1w3zZo
[16:18] <Azelphur> I WANTS THEM.
[19:06] <HazRPG> hurray \o/
[19:07] <HazRPG> I'm 11.10 now
[19:07] <brobostigon> HazRPG: since the summer, i have been on debian sid+experimental.
[19:08] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah cool
[19:08] <brobostigon> HazRPG: so i get to see everything early.
[19:08] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm only upgrading because I've been having issues with my sound... an update broke it, and I can't figure out how to fix it anymore :/
[19:09] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see.
[19:09] <HazRPG> I even reverted to previous versions of things to try and get things running again, with no joy :( so upgraded to see what happens (cos apparently 10.10 had lots of sound issues?)
[19:09] <brobostigon> hmmm.
[19:11] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I found out that jackd2 was on for some reason too
[19:11] <HazRPG> so I've since removed that
[19:12] <brobostigon> ok.
[19:12] <HazRPG> (only found out during upgrade, so I must have installed something that required it at one point - thus causing the issues)
[19:12] <brobostigon> maybe, yes.
[19:12] <HazRPG> however, in 10.10, 11.04... I could get sound working by simply doing "killall pulseaudio" then "sudo alsa force-reload"
[19:13] <HazRPG> now... I can't get audio to work at all in 11.10 :/
[19:13] <HazRPG> slightly frustrated
[19:13] <brobostigon> HazRPG: so your sound devices dont show anywhere?
[19:13] <HazRPG> been messing around with this for about a week
[19:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: no, sound devices show up in several places... pulseaudio just seems to refuse connections (almost as if it doesn't have control over the audio at all)
[19:14] <brobostigon> HazRPG: what happened if you played firectly to alsa, and not pulseaudio?
[19:14] <HazRPG> again, me thinking it jackd2 was taking control over it... but seems something else must be... but I have no way of figuring out what
[19:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: sound works
[19:15] <HazRPG> brobostigon: although I can't get it to force alsa anymore in 11.10 :(
[19:15] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, that explains it then.
[19:17] <HazRPG> brobostigon: think you could help me figure this out?
[19:18] <brobostigon> HazRPG: if i can, yes.
[19:21] <HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
[19:21] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope i can help.
[19:29] <HazRPG> brobostigon: don't know where to start
[19:30] <daubers> evening
[19:30] <brobostigon> HazRPG: best place to start is with least in the equation, so simplest possible.
[19:33] <HazRPG> brobostigon: well I just tried "ubuntu-bug audio" and so far its doing nothing...
[19:34] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ubuntu-bug is that autmated tool to file things to launchpad isnt it, if memory serves?
[19:34] <HazRPG> brobostigon: yup
[19:34] <brobostigon> HazRPG: you mentioned you could playback dirctly to alsa but not via pulseaudio to alsa, yes?
[19:35] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ever site I've seen mentions if your having trouble with audio then you should run that command first because it attempts to see what's going wrong first and possible fixes... otherwise it just asks if you want to file a bug instead
[19:35] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I could... not anymore, not since the upgrade to 11.10
[19:36] <HazRPG> or at least I haven't figure out how to do it
[19:36] <brobostigon> HazRPG: even if you kill pulseaudio?
[19:36] <HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah
[19:36] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i believe they changes control from init.d to a prog called service/s, to control that stuff, that might be worth looking at.
[19:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, upstart?
[19:37] <brobostigon> HazRPG: not sure.
[19:38] <brobostigon> HazRPG: also, i wonder where pulseaudio logs to, to see what it is doing.
[19:40] <directhex> moo.
[19:40] <brobostigon> baa
[19:40] <directhex> pulse doesn't log by default, you need to enable it in a conf file iirc
[19:40] <brobostigon> thank you directhex
[19:40] <HazRPG> directhex: ah, thanks for the info
[19:45] <HazRPG> hmm, "killall pulseaudio" now gives "pulseaudio(2109): Operation not permitted"
[19:46] <HazRPG> 3 times total
[19:46] <HazRPG> with 2109, 2113, 2114 (I'm guessing these are the process id's)
[19:46] <zleap> what does killall -9 pulseaudio do ?
[19:46] <zleap> thast should kill all processes with that name
[19:46] <HazRPG> same result
[19:47] <zleap> what if you put sudo first
[19:47] <zleap> so you do it as root
[19:47] <HazRPG> zleap: hmm... returns nothing, so I'm guessing that was successful
[19:47] <zleap> ok
[19:48] <zleap> you should be able to check with top
[19:48] <HazRPG> zleap: ah I always forget about that
[19:48] <zleap> np
[19:49] <HazRPG> zleap: apparently not... "lighttdm" still has it running
[19:49] <zleap> hmm
[19:49] <zleap> ok we need a bit more help here then
[19:53] <HazRPG> zleap: oh... thanks for the help though
[19:54] <brobostigon> brb
[19:54] <HazRPG> ah, I think I've killed it
[19:55] <HazRPG> and sudo alsa force-reload, I have sound running through alsa now
[19:55] <HazRPG> (or at least on chrome so far)
[19:55] <zleap> ok
[19:55] <HazRPG> brobostigon: no worries
[19:56] <zleap> how are you going to stop pulseaudio starting upagain if you reboot ?
[19:56] <gordonjcp> zleap: sudo rm /usr/bin/pulseaudio works for me
[19:56] <HazRPG> ideally, I would like pulseaudio to work... so that I can manage the volumes of my applications...
[19:57] <zleap> ok
[19:57] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: heh, guessing you don't use pulse
[19:57] <gordonjcp> HazRPG: not if I can avoid it
[19:57] <gordonjcp> annoyingly though it means I don't have a volume control in Ubuntu
[19:57] <gordonjcp> pulse breaks my audio
[19:57] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: yeah ya do!
[19:57] <gordonjcp> well, alsamixer
[19:58] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: hit up ... heh yeah that
[19:58] <gordonjcp> it's annoying that the whole audio system in Ubuntu is completely tied to pulse
[19:58] <gordonjcp> I don't even see what the point of pulseaudio is
[19:59]  * brobostigon returns with a packet of crisps and beer topup.
[19:59] <brobostigon> yay, new big bang theory, e4, :)
[19:59] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: it was originally it was created because of issues in alsa when several applications are tring to play sound at the same time iirc

[20:00] <gordonjcp> only one app should play audio at a time
[20:00] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: how about, normal system sounds, and then playing music or a dvd. both should work at the same time.
[20:00] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: system notifications while listening to music is the best I can think of, whereby several applications are playing sound at the same time
[20:00] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: I never use system sounds
[20:01] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: ok, doesnt matter, just using that as an example.
[20:01] <gordonjcp> I always delete them and set /usr/share/sounds immutable
[20:01] <HazRPG> heh
[20:01] <gordonjcp> any app that is not expressly supposed to play back audio making any sort of noise is an unacceptable defect
[20:02] <AlanBell> when I was copying a bunch of CDs into banshee a few weeks ago I was listening to two things at once, it was quite good
[20:02] <HazRPG> AlanBell: oh?
[20:03] <AlanBell> I don't normally listen to music and stuff, but I wanted to try and do so because it seems like listening to music is something Ubuntu is a bit optimised for
[20:04] <AlanBell> so I dug out a heap of old CDs and put them in on a couple of computers in my office, and played them back as they were going in
[20:04] <gordonjcp> it's no good for actually making music though
[20:04] <HazRPG> ah
[20:04] <gordonjcp> it's impossible to use any audio apps
[20:04] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: ubuntu studio?
[20:04] <AlanBell> kind of made more sense to me to listen to songs two or three at a time, they are too slow and repetitive otherwise, but I wanted to turn the instruments down a bit
[20:05] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: it uses jackd instead of pulse or alsa
[20:05] <gordonjcp> HazRPG: shite, obsolete and hideous theme
[20:05] <gordonjcp> also the maintainer is an arse
[20:05] <AlanBell> then I figured I probably hadn't quite got the hang of listening to music properly yet so gave up. I will try again at some point
[20:06] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: agreed, however still proves that you can use ubuntu for music making
[20:06] <HazRPG> gordonjcp: I know several people that do
[20:06] <HazRPG> everyone's needs are going to be different though, obviously
[20:07] <HazRPG> AlanBell: heh, mix-master alan on teh ... computays
[20:08]  * AlanBell sits in silence and is quite happy with that
[20:08] <HazRPG> I'm sure everyone here can appreciate the music stylings of this man here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXqPYte8tvc
[20:10] <HazRPG> right, going to the shop... I guess fixing my audio will have to wait until I go to Egypt now (computer is being shipped away tomorrow morning)
[20:10] <HazRPG> ... I shall return, with boxes! (and while I'm there... crisps or something)
[20:26] <HazRPG> doh... only had one
[20:27] <HazRPG> guess I'm just going to have to use all the small ones I have
[20:47] <HazRPG> I think I may have cracked the reason pulse is being funny... but we'll soon find out after a restart
[20:47] <brobostigon> :)
[20:57]  * AlanBell does a tour of the FIXME (gord) lines in unity
[21:05] <HazRPG> hmm, well that didn't work either
[21:05] <brobostigon> :(
[21:06] <HazRPG> thought it might have been because my user was in the "pulse" group
[21:06] <HazRPG> and was also in the "audio" group
[21:06] <HazRPG> according to the wiki it should only be in the "pulse-access" and "pulse-rt" groups
[21:06] <swat_> evening
[21:06] <HazRPG> swat_: evening dude
[21:07] <swat_> anyone running pangolin?
[21:07] <AlanBell> swat_: yup, it is fab
[21:10]  * paln is back on IRC
[21:10] <paln> woohoo! :P
[21:10] <swat_> AlanBell: i'm contemplating upgrading my 11.10 to it
[21:10] <jacobw> welcome back
[21:11] <paln> jacobw: thanks ;)
[21:11] <paln> soo, what's being said round here?
[21:11] <swat_> AlanBell: obviously, aware of the dangers - but the reports i'm getting would appear to out weigh the risk
[21:11] <AlanBell> yeah
[21:12] <AlanBell> if you don't mind an update at some point meaning you lose your boot sector or X doesn't start or networking is broken (quite possible, has happened before in developent releases)
[21:13] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: any really noticeable differences between pangolin and ocelot?
[21:13] <AlanBell> so if you are cool with that possibility (and they are trying not to do that) then go for it
[21:13] <gordonjcp> apart from the explodeyness
[21:13] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: is is less explodey on a day to day basis
[21:15] <AlanBell> I am struggling to name a killer new feature to be honest
[21:15] <swat_> AlanBell: 11.10 just runs like a dog on my netbook - can't put a finger on why
[21:15] <AlanBell> apart from de-bansheefication
[21:15] <paln> swat_: whaddya mean by that?
[21:16] <swat_> paln: previously, i've always found ubuntu nice and snappy on it - something in 11.10 just seems 'wrong'
[21:16] <paln> AlanBell: are they removing Banshee from pangolin?
[21:17] <Laney> no
[21:17] <paln> swat_: hmph, i've never noticed any sluggishness on my laptop
[21:17] <paln> maybe it's your hardware
[21:18] <AlanBell> paln: banshee remains in pangolin, just possibly not on the CD
[21:18] <paln> Laney: phew -- i always liked Banshee
[21:18] <swat_> paln: hmmm, i guess - it just seems overly laggy - hard to explain
[21:18] <Laney> it continues undeterred
[21:18] <paln> AlanBell: sure, you can install it from the repos, but it's nice to know Ubuntu prefer it over whatever else is out there :D
[21:18] <paln> RhythmBox was fine, but Banshee just seems to have that extra something
[21:19] <AlanBell> that extra 30 seconds startup time
[21:19] <jacobw> in my experience banshee has been buggy and slow since version 0.12
[21:19] <Laney> oh, look, trolling begins
[21:19]  * Laney steps away
[21:19] <zleap> i have updated the dclug page on my local commuity website and tried to push this ubuntu group for people too http://www.torcom.org.uk/groups/devon-and-cornwall-gnu-linux-user-group
[21:19] <AlanBell> banshee has improved over time like all things
[21:19] <paln> jacobw: really? looks like its been getting better from what i can see :P
[21:19] <paln> AlanBell: not like ALL things
[21:20] <paln> life gets worse day by day :D
[21:20] <AlanBell> just the file associations of audio files with banshee is frustrating, I just want ogg files to play in the simplist player possible
[21:20] <paln> and satellite TV
[21:20] <paln> namely Sky
[21:20] <paln> AlanBell: i play oggs in Google Chrome
[21:20] <AlanBell> and they did fix the problem with banshee consuming 100% of all processor cores, which was caused by gconf or something
[21:21] <paln> who the heck managed to make it use everything from your processors?
[21:21] <paln> that's just bad engineering
[21:21] <AlanBell> just a bug
[21:21] <zleap> ohj andi have included april 26 as the release date for 12.04 as an event
[21:23] <AlanBell> but it happened quite a lot when oneiric was released, so I would click on a downloaded podcast ogg file or something, it would take 40 seconds or so to load banshee, then lock up all cores of the processor, then the ACPI stuff would throw the computer into immediate thermal shutdown
[21:23] <AlanBell> so, just a bug, and it got fixed after a while, but I kind of went off banshee
[21:27] <jutnux> AlanBell, popey, whoever else: Nice job on the final Ubuntu-UK podcast of this year :-D
[21:27] <paln> AlanBell: regarding the ram and cd, i should be emailing you later
[21:27] <AlanBell> wasn't me, popey tonytiger lauracowen and Marxjohnson get all the credit for that
[21:27] <zleap> wb paln
[21:27] <jutnux> Sorry for the false Sorry AlanBell haha
[21:27] <paln> you guys do podcasts?
[21:27] <jutnux> Good god why did it paste that.
[21:28] <jutnux> paln: podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
[21:28] <AlanBell> !podcase
[21:28] <AlanBell> !podcast
[21:28]  * paln never knew Alan Bell did podcasts
[21:28] <AlanBell> I don't!
[21:28] <HazRPG> xD
[21:28] <jutnux> He doesn't, I thought he did haha
[21:28] <AlanBell> I am thinking of doing one next year
[21:28] <HazRPG> AlanBell: \o/
[21:28] <jutnux> I have them running in the background pretty much all the time.
[21:29] <paln> AlanBell: oh right, didnt realise the message above
[21:29] <paln> :D
[21:31] <HazRPG> hmm, for some reason I can't do "Mod4+L" for lock screen anymore :(
[21:32] <paln> HazRPG: check your keyboard shortcuts
[21:32] <zleap> what do i put in to banshee to download podcasts
[21:32] <HazRPG> paln: I did
[21:32] <paln> HazRPG: then i have nothing useful for you
[21:32] <HazRPG> paln: I'm there... it shows clearly that I've assigned lock screen to "Mod4+L" but it doesn't do anything :(
[21:32] <HazRPG> paln: wouldn't worry, thanks though
[21:33] <paln> !podcast
[21:34] <AlanBell> zleap: a subscribe link, generally an RSS feed
[21:34] <zleap> ok
[21:34] <zleap> i had it auto download before into banshee
[21:35]  * zleap is listening to the latest one now
[21:35] <zleap> and have subscribed to live bookmarks
[21:36] <paln> zleap: also listening now
[21:37] <swat_> AlanBell: upgrade in progress :-)
[21:37] <paln> AlanBell: IS there an RSS feed for the podcasts? I cant seem to find one
[21:37] <exobuzz> has there been a time in the last weeks when there hasnt been a massive queue on launchpad ppas :( 2 days build queue currently for i386. ouch.
[21:38] <zleap> ok got it
[21:40] <AlanBell> paln: loads of subscribe buttons on the left http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high?format=xml that is one of them
[21:41] <zleap> paln, http://www.getmiro.com/give/?a=m is this helpful,  you can subscribe to the podcast andothers fromthere
[21:41] <paln> AlanBell: so the link itself is the RSS feed? cos i dont see a subscribe button for pages
[21:41] <zleap> i think your bookmarks are auto updated when a new podcast is available
[21:41] <paln> theyre on the left, found them :D
[21:41] <paln> i meant right
[21:42] <paln> they're on the right :S
[21:43] <exobuzz> aah i misread. builders are ok
[21:43] <paln> i've noticed...why does Ubuntu try so hard to look similar to a mac?
[21:44] <zleap> not sure
[21:44] <zleap> mac osx does look nice
[21:44] <swat_> paln: is it really that similar?
[21:44] <paln> swat_: quite
[21:44] <zleap> with docky yes
[21:45] <zleap> the menus or the way they appear on the top bar depending on app is very mac like
[21:45] <paln> zleap: i installed cairo-dock (now glx-dock) a week ago
[21:45] <zleap> ah
[21:45] <paln> for reasons i can't remember
[21:45] <paln> zleap: but thats not why its similar
[21:45] <paln> the actual default interface
[21:46] <paln> THAT'S what kinda creeps me out
[21:46] <paln> that it's so similar to OS X
[21:47] <swat_> paln: the default unity desktop isn't that similar though
[21:47] <paln> swat_: to me it is
[21:47] <paln> oh, well, just my opinion
[21:48] <zleap> i guess things can look similar without upsetting apple too much
[21:48] <swat_> paln: i can see your point, but i think compared to most other 'desktops' it's not so similar in a copycat way
[21:48] <swat_> just in a... this is the current desktop trend way
[21:48] <paln> tries to be innovative, but everything is similar to something
[21:49] <paln> the only completely revolutionary desktop i've ever known would be twm
[21:49] <paln> Origianlly Tom's Windows Manager
[21:51] <zleap> i guess there are only a limited number of ways to do stuff,  you still use windows, icons,  mouse and pointers hence its a WIMP environment  but the way you do it has to be familar to people to so its easy to use
[21:52] <paln> is there any way to change the default program for specific file types in Ubuntu?
[21:52] <paln> im using 11.10
[21:52] <paln> specifcally, i want .deb files to open in gdebi-gtk rather than the software center
[21:53] <zleap> i think you can right click on something, to open click other,  chooose what you want thereis a tick box to remember what you have selected (11.04)
[21:56]  * popey wonders why the screen doesnt update on his machine properly anymore
[21:56]  * popey blames nvidia without knowing who is the right person to blame
[21:57] <jacobw> paln: dpkg -i foo.deb
[21:57] <HazRPG> interesting
[21:58] <paln> zleap: tried that earlier -- the checkbox was removed in ocelot :(
[21:58] <paln> which is why i ask
[21:58] <HazRPG> the error message for "disk x is running low on space" it says something like "please check your wastebasket" instead of "rubbish bin"
[21:58]  * popey tickles tsimpson in the packets
[22:01] <zleap>  ubuntu podcast doing a version of scrooge
[22:03] <paln> zleap: yep, listeningg right now
[22:03] <paln> pretty funny
[22:04] <paln> OPEN SOURCE?!?!
[22:05] <paln> zleap: guess the guy with the 50mb hdd is Linus Torvalds
[22:05] <zleap> yeah
[22:06] <paln> cleverly avoiding the fact that Mark Shuttleworth is yet another successful open-source code contributor
[22:07] <paln> boy, that's a mouthful
[22:08] <zleap> yeah
[22:08] <zleap> your about 3 mins behind me i think on the podcast
[22:10] <paln> scrooge in a wheelie bin
[22:11] <paln> "im not in a wheelie bin!"
[22:11] <jutnux> Hahhahaha
[22:11] <paln> jutnux: the voices are funnier
[22:12] <paln> i send them a christmas turkey...and some leeks...and some cheese!
[22:12] <paln> "Is you on drugs?"
[22:12] <paln> i should listen to these more often
[22:12] <jutnux> They're brilliant.
[22:12]  * paln is laughing his arse off
[22:12] <paln> jutnux: too right
[22:13] <paln> and the weird Chaplin-themed music
[22:14] <jutnux> http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/cheezburgers-ben-huh-if-godaddy-supports-sopa-were-taking-our-1000-domains-elsewhere/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
[22:14] <jutnux> Eat that, SOPA.
[22:14] <paln> so the SOPA act is dead? Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
[22:14] <paln> ...ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
[22:14] <jutnux> Not yet.
[22:15] <paln> ...ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
[22:15] <paln> ...ray?
[22:15] <paln> Wait, what?
[22:15] <paln> oh...
[22:15] <paln> i'll have to read
[22:15] <zleap> is it
[22:16] <paln> Ben Huh
[22:16] <paln> pronounced hoo or ha?
[22:16] <paln> seriously though, im not too sure :/
[22:16] <jutnux> I think it's hoo
[22:16] <brobostigon> ben hur*
[22:16] <paln> i assumed that too
[22:17] <paln> if it was ha, i can imagine something like this happening...:
[22:17] <zleap> no the article was about moving from @godaddy unless they drop their support for SOPA
[22:17] <paln> "Do you know Ben Huh?"
[22:17] <paln> -"Ben who?"
[22:17] <zleap> thing are there enough people who understand this enough to be able to do that
[22:17] <paln> -"Ben Huh!"
[22:17] <paln> -"Huh?"
[22:18] <smittix> Howdy all
[22:18] <paln> -"Ben Huh..."
[22:18] <jutnux> \o smittix
[22:18] <zleap> paln, it was a film before our time I think
[22:18] <paln> -"Who?"
[22:18] <smittix> Can anyone reccommend me a online backup solution? pref hosted in the uk
[22:18] <paln> -"Ben...oh, forget it"
[22:18] <paln> zleap, what was?
[22:18] <zleap> Ben Hur was a title of a film
[22:18] <paln> zleap: oh right
[22:18] <paln> smittix: online?
[22:18] <zleap> > ben hur*
[22:19] <zleap> quote from brobostigon
[22:19] <paln> hmmm... Déja Dùp along with Ubuntu One works nicely
[22:19] <smittix> paln: Yeah.
[22:19] <paln> smittix: why do you want it hosted locally?
[22:19] <smittix> Was looking at things like carbonite.
[22:19] <zleap> paln,  how many young people do you know that use Linux / ubuntu ?
[22:19] <paln> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur:_A_Tale_of_the_Christ
[22:20] <paln> it's a novel, that had...
[22:20] <smittix> I suppose I could host it abroad.
[22:20] <paln> ...four, four films based on it
[22:20] <jutnux> I'm young and I use Linux, yay.
[22:20] <mgdm> smittix: rsync.net?
[22:20] <paln> and there was a miniseries and play, along with a museum dedicated to it
[22:20] <paln> All for a book called Ben-Hur
[22:21] <paln> jutnux: same! how old are you?
[22:21] <zleap> AlanBell, ref podcast the new open document foundation seems to be called http://www.oasis-open.org/
[22:21] <jutnux> paln: 15, you?
[22:22] <paln> 14
[22:22] <jutnux> Sahweet.
[22:22] <paln> zleap: i am behind you on the podcast
[22:22] <zleap> yeah
[22:22] <paln> "we'll have a foundation foundation foundation podcast"
[22:22] <jutnux> Listened to it already heheheh
[22:23] <paln> and there's that cheesy music again
[22:23] <jutnux> I love that music hhahhahaaha.
[22:23] <paln> jutnux: /me always giggles when the music arrives
[22:23] <paln> FAIL
[22:24] <jutnux> You fool.
[22:24] <jutnux> Do you run Ubuntu then paln?
[22:24] <paln> yep, 11.10 atm
[22:24] <paln> started using Linux in June 2010
[22:24] <jutnux> Sweet.
[22:24] <paln> with 10.04 LTS
[22:24] <jutnux> I started using it properly around that time too
[22:24] <paln> was just getting into what Linux was
[22:25] <jutnux> Been using arch lately.
[22:25] <paln> i had heard of it here and there, and so decided to try it out
[22:25]  * smittix feels old. Started using Ubuntu in 2004.
[22:25] <paln> Google'd "linux download" and the top result was, of course...
[22:25] <zleap> hopefully more young people will do the same
[22:25] <jutnux> zleap: Not going to happen. Have you seen IT in schools?
[22:25] <paln> jutnux: we discussed this last night
[22:25] <jutnux> I'm a web dev and programmer and IT is an abomination.
[22:26] <paln> haha :D
[22:26] <jutnux> Let's discuss it again
[22:26] <jutnux> At the minute
[22:26] <jutnux> I am making (in class) an e-brochure
[22:26] <jutnux> In powerpoint.
[22:26] <zleap> i think if people want to use it they will,  don't reply on schools
[22:26] <paln> fair enough, but look at the chat logs for 21/12/2011
[22:26] <jutnux> zleap: Not just that, but everything is terrible.
[22:26] <paln> zleap: you mean rely?
[22:26] <paln> just to clarify
[22:26] <zleap> yes
[22:26] <zleap> sorry
[22:27] <jutnux> I doubt I'll ever go back to Ubuntu after Arch.
[22:27] <zleap> i remember a few years ago, helping in a school, the year 6 students were just copy / pasting in to word
[22:27] <jutnux> But both are awesome either way.
[22:27] <paln> zleap: i love that
[22:27] <zleap> rather then say printing out, going through, making notes and then writing stuff up in their own words
[22:27] <paln> do you guys know Freddie Wong?
[22:27] <jutnux> YES
[22:27] <paln> freddiew on youTube
[22:27] <zleap> no
[22:27] <paln> jutnux: woohoo
[22:27] <jutnux> His videos are amazinggggg
[22:28] <paln> zleap: he's an awesome Special effects dude
[22:28]  * paln eagerly awaits VGHS
[22:28] <zleap> cool
[22:28] <paln> http://www.youtube.com/freddiew
[22:28] <paln> ^^^ there ya go
[22:28] <zleap> thanks
[22:28] <jutnux> paln: have you ever tried arch?
[22:29] <zleap> will look later as it has sound and am listing to podcast
[22:29] <zleap> i think in schools it will be young people talking to friends about it,  and getting them interested that way,
[22:30] <jutnux> zleap: My friends barely know how to use Windows
[22:31] <paln> anyway, on his behind the scenes channel, the guy with the glasses (i can NEVER remember his name) states that in "third grade" ICT he had to write a piece of text three times out...thinking there must be an easier way, he searched the documentation and found copy-paste
[22:31] <paln> jutnux: yea, twice
[22:31] <jutnux> Do you not like it?
[22:31] <paln> zleap: that's how i got my mates in primary school engaged in IT
[22:31] <paln> i remember trying to "hack" the school network via the command prompt
[22:31] <jutnux> paln: been there done that
[22:31] <jutnux> got banned for 2 weeks
[22:31] <zleap> same thing happened in the 80';s really those of us who wanted to wrote programs in basic
[22:32] <paln> seeing as most people just assume a black screen with text to be a form of hacking
[22:32] <zleap> wrote = write
[22:32] <paln> i just opened 'cmd' and they all gasped :D
[22:32] <paln> moments like that are absolutely hilarious
[22:32] <zleap> well hacking in the true sense of programming is OK
[22:32] <paln> jutnux: i didnt actually do any hacking
[22:32] <jutnux> paln: I got my first computer when I was 4 \o/
[22:32] <zleap> i did IBT 2 years ago, was bored so sent my tutor a message via netware
[22:33] <paln> jutnux: my first computer is the laptop im using now
[22:33] <paln> but ive been using a computer since 3
[22:33] <paln> playing Rayman 2 for hours on end
[22:33] <paln> one of my favourite past-times
[22:33] <paln> and when i hit 6, Rayman 3
[22:33] <paln> lol :D
[22:33] <jutnux> RAYMAN <3
[22:33] <directhex> i only played rayman 1, tbh
[22:33] <jutnux> The new one is absolutely terrible.
[22:33] <paln> jutnux: i'm getting Rayman Origins soon
[22:33] <directhex> FROM THE ERA OF GREAT FRENCHNESS
[22:33] <paln> (yes!)
[22:34] <paln> the only decent Rayman game there has been for 7 years
[22:34] <jutnux> When you smacked them little monster things off of the rocks
[22:34] <paln> jutnux: huh?
[22:34] <jutnux> When Rayman like wound up his punch
[22:34] <jutnux> ?
[22:34] <jutnux> no??
[22:34] <directhex> FACT FOR THE DAY! the creator of rayman was knighted
[22:34] <jutnux> He deserves it
[22:34] <paln> Michel Ancel was knighted!?!?!?!
[22:35] <paln> cool
[22:35] <directhex> paln: yeah. order of arts & literature
[22:35] <paln> never knew that
[22:35] <jutnux> What do you plan on doing at college paln?
[22:35] <paln> jutnux: not college
[22:35] <HazRPG> urgh this sound issue is really frustrating me
[22:35] <paln> going to 6th form, then Uni hopefully
[22:35] <jutnux> sixth form, whatever.
[22:35] <jutnux> I'm torn between going to Uni, or not.
[22:35] <zleap> i think if you can find the time to really contribute to Ubuntu and get a really good karma on launch pad with respect from others ,  that could be worth a lot one day
[22:35] <paln> HazRPG; what issue exactly?
[22:36] <paln> have you guys heard of Bilal Akhtar?
[22:36] <jutnux> Yes
[22:36] <directhex> paln: in 2006 three game developers were knighted by the french govt
[22:36] <HazRPG> paln: pulseaudio seems to refuse to play sounds
[22:36] <jutnux> Follow him on Twitter and on his blog.
[22:36] <paln> I kinda think I want to take after him
[22:36] <jutnux> 15 year old packager, right?
[22:36] <paln> jutnux: i thinl
[22:36] <HazRPG> paln: and alsa is a "hit and miss" as to whether it will work or not
[22:36] <paln> *think
[22:36] <zleap> nice
[22:36] <paln> HazRPG: never use pulse
[22:36] <jutnux> I'm going to work at canonical one day.;
[22:36] <jutnux> Fact.
[22:37] <paln> it will save you time
[22:37] <directhex> paln: michel ancel (rayman), frederick raynal (little big adventure), and shigeru miyamoto (er... no idea, never heard of this one)
[22:37] <HazRPG> paln: pulse is kinda an integral part of ubuntu, most of it is built around it
[22:37] <paln> directhex: haha very funny(!) *slow dull applause*
[22:38] <paln> Mario you dumpkopf
[22:38] <zleap> jutnux, well hang around here enough and really help people and people will know you,  a good Plus with job hunting
[22:38] <zleap> at least then people know you can do the job
[22:38] <directhex> i am possibly being facetious. http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/zelda3.jpg
[22:38]  * paln is wailing, due to the Ubuntu UK podcast having ended. :/
[22:38] <AlanBell> a signed cartridge, nice!
[22:39] <paln> whoa
[22:39] <AlanBell> paln: you have years of back episodes to catch up on :)
[22:39] <paln> AlanBell: Oh yeah...
[22:39]  * paln is happy once again
[22:39] <directhex> AlanBell: i had to camp out in front of HMV overnight to score that
[22:39] <jutnux> paln: I'm going to listen to episode 1 tonight :-)
[22:40] <swat_> AlanBell: i see from popey's google+ you use unity 3d on an atom 330 - same as me!
[22:40] <paln> dircethex: lol :D
[22:40] <swat_> AlanBell: i'm hoping precise will see performance improvements on this
[22:40] <paln> i was reconsidering whether it was yours or not for a second
[22:40] <paln> this being the internet
[22:40] <jutnux> You know
[22:40] <jutnux> in 40 years
[22:40] <directhex> S03E12 is the best episode of UUPC. i wouldn't bother with the rest tbh
[22:40] <paln> i still own a working SNEs
[22:40] <paln> *SNES
[22:40] <jutnux> the bigges tproblem is going to be finding a unique username
[22:40] <popey> haha directhex
[22:40] <AlanBell> swat_: working fine on precise now
[22:41] <paln> directhex: will check that out
[22:41] <directhex> paln: my NES is hooked up to my 40" HDTV. got it in 1989 \o/
[22:41] <paln> NES or SNES?
[22:41] <directhex> paln: NES. the SNES wasn't until, like, 1994 or something
[22:41] <directhex> well, when we got one
[22:42] <paln> my sister got a SNES in 1998
[22:42] <jutnux> I wish I had all of these retro consoles.
[22:42] <zleap> i have a sinclair spectrum 48k+
[22:42] <swat_> i found a brand new sega megadrive in my dad's garage
[22:42] <zleap> we did have a sega megadrive at the after school clubi work at,  i think it got thrown away along with loads of games
[22:43] <jutnux> Best thing about Sega was the startup tune
[22:43] <jutnux> SEEEEEEEGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[22:43] <zleap> yeah some of the old games were really good, fun and playable
[22:43] <directhex> jutnux: almost every game had a different sega jingle. everyone remembers the sonic 1 one though
[22:43] <jutnux> Sonic \o/
[22:43] <jutnux> I spent literally all of my time on that
[22:43] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8aIge9H5OQ
[22:44] <zleap> i used to play chaos : battle of wizards for hours on the spectrum
[22:46] <jutnux> I used to play games but then I took an arrow through the knee.
[22:46] <jutnux> But in all seriousness, I rarely play games now.
[22:46] <jutnux> IS anyone going to get a Raspberry PI?
[22:47] <jacobw> almost certainly
[22:48] <directhex> not much point. i already have an ARM box, and it can actually run ubuntu
[22:48] <zleap> jutnux, yeah hopefully
[22:49] <jutnux> I'm going to get one just ot mess around with it
[22:49] <directhex> my spare time goes on videogames. no time to mess around with tech
[22:49] <AlanBell> I might get one, even though it won't run Ubuntu
[22:49] <zleap> fedora i think
[22:50] <zleap> AlanBell,  could make a interesting podcast article
[22:50] <Nafallo> hmm. I haz question.
[22:50] <jutnux> Shoot.
[22:50] <AlanBell> we haz answers
[22:50] <Nafallo> have anyone that has recently ran around in stores seen any Lenovo x121es in he wild? if so, where? :-)
[22:50] <AlanBell> 42 <- there is one
[22:50] <Nafallo> s/he/the/
[22:50] <HazRPG> I iz a haz!
[22:51] <paln> What happened to Wii Remote interfaces being implemented into Kernel 3-point-something
[22:51] <HazRPG> paln: I suspect a spanner in the works... I'm sure it'll get added at some point... maybe...
[22:51] <AlanBell> !info wminput
[22:52] <jutnux> Why would you use a Wii remote
[22:52] <AlanBell> wiimote works fine already, did for ages
[22:52] <AlanBell> jutnux: you can make an interactive whiteboard with one if you have an IR pen and projector (which I have)
[22:53] <HazRPG> what do wiimotes use for their frequencies? Is it literally just bluetooth? Or other?
[22:53] <AlanBell> bluetooth
[22:53] <jutnux> AlanBell: I saw that video on YouTube.
[22:53] <directhex> far more useful than for playing games. bloody wii
[22:53] <paln> i've used wminput in the psat
[22:53] <paln> *past
[22:53] <paln> but it's a bit fiddly
[22:53] <paln> really cool once you set it up though
[22:53] <paln> but having drivers in the kernel would be awesome
[22:54] <paln> such less hassle!
[22:54] <AlanBell> why would you care if they are kernel drivers?
[22:54] <jutnux> I really want a job :-(
[22:54] <HazRPG> jutnux: you and me both
[22:54] <paln> AlanBell: i still a usually off-on switch to make one
[22:54] <paln> *still nedd
[22:54] <paln> *still need
[22:55] <HazRPG> paln: I keep saying that about ps3 controllers... but heh, it won't happen, so I'll stick with QtSixad
[22:55] <paln> HazRPG: i know PS3 controllers work with Windows over USB, but Linux?
[22:55] <paln> never raelised
[22:55] <paln> *realised
[22:55] <HazRPG> paln: not sure about over USB... I meant using it via bluetooth
[22:55] <jutnux> Linux replaced Windows nearly 2 years ago for me I think haha.
[22:55] <paln> ah...that would be easier
[22:56] <paln> but yeah, you can use them over USB in Windows
[22:56] <paln> i tried it in Vista, worked absolutely fine
[22:56] <HazRPG> paln: yeah I know, but who uses that xD
[22:56] <Nafallo> Linux replaced Windows for me... ehrm... 10 years ago?
[22:56] <paln> you just have to download the open-source drivers
[22:56] <paln> nafallo:
[22:56] <paln> Nafallo: completely?
[22:56] <jutnux> Nafallo: orly
[22:56] <paln> i cant' imagine completely giving up Windows
[22:56] <HazRPG> Nafallo: *internet-high-five*
[22:56] <Nafallo> paln: yeah. haven't ran it since then :-)
[22:56]  * jutnux shoots paln
[22:57] <Nafallo> :-)
[22:57] <HazRPG> paln: bah, you need to remove the ties my friend :P
[22:57]  * paln falls to the floor, only to be raised by Bill Gates
[22:57] <paln> jk, jk
[22:57] <Nafallo> unless you count work/military duty, but I don't.
[22:57] <Nafallo> personal computers.
[22:57]  * hamitron switched at kernel 2.4.18, if that means anything
[22:57] <zleap> paln, apart from games and at the moment printing, i hardly use windows
[22:57] <jutnux> Do y'all prefer GUI text editors or Command line ones like Vim?
[22:57] <paln> the only reason i use Windows is for programs that don't work in wine
[22:58] <HazRPG> hamitron: means a heck of a long time ago :P
[22:58] <paln> mianly iTunes
[22:58] <jutnux> paln: Use a Virtual Box then
[22:58] <paln> *mainly
[22:58] <paln> jutnux: been there, done that
[22:58] <Nafallo> jutnux: my GUI one is gvim, and that's because pentadactyl uses it ;-)
[22:58] <HazRPG> zleap: CUP + SAMBA \o/
[22:58] <HazRPG> CUPS*
[22:58] <hamitron> HazRPG, not old enough for that ;)
[22:58] <jutnux> Nafallo: Vim \o/
[22:58] <zleap> yeah i need to sort it out,   maybe help package it properly
[22:58] <paln> jutnux: i use nano on the command line, gedit Gui-wise
[22:58] <paln> but i dont mind
[22:58] <zleap> right now there is no filter for my printer, i am guessing its in the wrong place on my system
[22:59] <jutnux> paln: Try Vim, it's amazing.
[22:59] <paln> i prefer to use gedit for code due to the highlighting
[22:59] <HazRPG> hamitron: true, but 2.4 is still a good few years ago
[22:59] <paln> say, does anyone know of a Notepad++ for Linux?
[22:59] <zleap> kernel 2.4 is still used in some places
[22:59] <jutnux> paln: GMate, Scribes
[22:59] <paln> at least, something with most of the functionality,
[22:59] <jutnux> Gmate = gedit with gmate plugins
[22:59] <jacobw> paln: emacs
[22:59] <hamitron> sadly, I am more likely to move to windows again atm :/
[22:59] <jutnux> emacs booooo
[23:00] <HazRPG> paln: errr... gedit ^_^
[23:00] <paln> the main feature I'm missing is collapsable code blocks
[23:00] <jacobw> paln: vim
[23:00] <jutnux> Emacs is a good OS but lacks a decent editor :-)
[23:00] <zleap> lol
[23:00] <paln> i like that feature
[23:00] <HazRPG> zleap: yeah I know, but 2.4 was released in 04 (ish?)
[23:00] <paln> HazRPG: haha i'd have never thought of that :D
[23:01] <HazRPG> paln: I use aptana for coding (aka eclipse)
[23:01] <jutnux> I hate big IDEs :-(
[23:01] <zleap> i use bluefish but that is for my website
[23:01] <paln> jutnux: why would you bother with an IDE?
[23:01] <paln> very simplistic setup
[23:01] <paln> nano and gcc
[23:01] <paln> :D
[23:01] <HazRPG> just because it integrates a shell nicely, along with ftp/sftp stuff
[23:02] <paln> HazRPG: fair play, but I prefer simplicity in nature than appearance
[23:02] <jacobw> i said emacs because its more like notepad++ in that can present a GUI with extensive menus
[23:02] <jutnux> paln: Vim \o/
[23:02] <zleap> its about the best tool for the job,  so you can use which ever fits your needs i guess
[23:02] <paln> It's..."The Arch Way"
[23:02] <hamitron> paln, gmake is nice though :/
[23:02] <HazRPG> paln: who said aptana or eclipse was nice looking xD
[23:02] <Nafallo> heh. I used vim and bzr for my current website. think I might use my sister for my next one ;-)
[23:02] <HazRPG> paln: its just useful
[23:03] <Nafallo> . o O ( but she doesn't know that yet )
[23:03] <hamitron> Nafallo, we don't talk about x-rated stuff here ;)
[23:03] <HazRPG> xD
[23:03] <Nafallo> hamitron: she works as a web designer :-)
[23:03] <hamitron> sorry, I just couldn't resist :/
[23:03] <zleap> lol
[23:03] <HazRPG> Nafallo: *double-high-fives*
[23:04] <Nafallo> her company do stuff for Nike amongst others :-)
[23:04] <hamitron> nice
[23:04] <hamitron> :)
[23:04]  * paln is laughing hysterically at the previous 10 lines
[23:04]  * jutnux is too
[23:04] <jacobw> i used vim for my last web something project, i'll try using bzr for my next web something
[23:04] <Nafallo> srsly. my website is NOT nafallo.xxx
[23:04] <jacobw> s/something/design?
[23:04] <paln> So, i'ma go now
[23:05] <jutnux> I thought bzr was a vcs?
[23:05] <paln> for about half an hour
[23:05] <HazRPG> lulz for anyone who tried to hit that
[23:05] <zleap> ok
[23:05] <Nafallo> (because it's too bloody expensive, but yeah... that's not why.)
[23:05] <paln> to try out Damn Small Linux ;)
[23:05] <paln> see ya!
[23:05] <jutnux> Bye \o
[23:05] <zleap> ah thats good btw paln
[23:05] <Nafallo> jutnux: it is.
[23:05] <zleap> cya
[23:05] <HazRPG> later
[23:05] <jutnux> I like Mercurial :-)
[23:05] <zleap> i am gonna head off for a while too, play with some windows stuff
[23:05] <jutnux> Might start using bzr as it's on launchpad.
[23:05] <HazRPG> jutnux: bzr ~ git ~ mercurial, etc
[23:06] <zleap> i think you need bzr to upload stuff right
[23:06] <paln> zleap: what's that sposed to mean?
[23:06] <paln> good im trying out dsl, or good im leaving for a while?
[23:06] <zleap> dsl is good
[23:06] <zleap> sorry
[23:06] <paln> lol :D
[23:06] <jutnux> Good you're leaving ;-)
[23:06] <paln> its' aight
[23:06] <Nafallo> hmm
[23:07]  * paln throws his fist at jutnux 
[23:07]  * zleap hides
[23:07] <Nafallo> my small linux of choice was LEKA back in the day :-)
[23:07]  * paln finally leaves, saying "I'll Bee Baak"
[23:07] <Nafallo> or maybe it's actually leka
[23:07] <HazRPG> I just had a vision of your fist physically leaving your hand with fire blazing out of it as it flies in the air
[23:07] <HazRPG> ah, he's gone
[23:08] <HazRPG> nvm
[23:08] <jutnux> I'll probably go back to Xchat.
[23:08] <HazRPG> I'm going to continue (technically start) packing
[23:08]  * zleap is using xchat
[23:08] <zleap> wb that was quick
[23:08] <HazRPG> shippers are coming in the morning to pick them up... o.O
[23:08] <Nafallo> that was quick
[23:08] <Nafallo> snap!
[23:08] <zleap> yeag
[23:08] <zleap> yeah
[23:09] <paln> proves how fast Damn Small is :D
[23:09] <HazRPG> heh
[23:09] <jutnux> Or how terrible it is
[23:09] <paln> nah I'm on my iPhone now
[23:09] <Nafallo> woha!
[23:09] <jutnux> Apple (n)
[23:09] <paln> jutnux: hehe too true (!)
[23:09] <HazRPG> paln: I knew you were going to say that ^_^
[23:09] <Nafallo> you put DSL on your iPhone?
[23:09] <zleap> you could run it in virtual box,  that way you don't need to leave :)
[23:09] <paln> jutnux: dw, I'm not a fanboy
[23:09] <swat_> i might be getting an iphone next
[23:09] <paln> well, not tht much
[23:09] <swat_> though i do like my blackberry
[23:09] <jutnux> Android (y)
[23:10] <paln> swat_: +1 to you sir, +1 to you
[23:10] <paln> jutnux: can't disagree there though
[23:10] <zleap> i take it you guys are on google+ (+1 comments)
[23:10] <swat_> paln: for the iphone, or the blackberry? :)
[23:10]  * Nafallo upgraded from Sybian to Android earlier this year, and is not disappointed.
[23:10] <Nafallo> s/Sy/&m/
[23:10] <HazRPG> zleap: I use to use the phrase "+1" before google made it into an app
[23:10] <zleap> ah
[23:10] <paln> swat_: when will people learn that BBs are the shittiest phones EVA!!!
[23:11] <zleap> chat later guys
[23:11]  * paln wants to throw swat_'s BlackBerry at him
[23:11] <swat_> they have their good points
[23:11] <paln> swat_: yes, that they can be used as a brick to throw at your enemy's tht have better phones than you
[23:11] <paln> pwned!!!!!
[23:11] <HazRPG> my vision of BB's is that they're viral - in the sense that ... to be very social on one, you have to get your friends to get one
[23:11] <swat_> hehe
[23:12]  * Nafallo tries to think of even one good point with blackberries, and is failing
[23:12] <paln> HazRPG: that IS why they're popular
[23:12] <paln> because everyone in my school has BB messenger
[23:12] <swat_> the main selling point for me was the keyboard :)
[23:12] <paln> and that's just as
[23:12] <paln> *sad
[23:12] <swat_> i'm not a big fan of touch screen stuff
[23:12] <HazRPG> paln: I know only one person who has one... and even then he's constantly trying to get them to convert... but ain't working
[23:12] <paln> ever heard of Facebook Chat?
[23:12] <swat_> but i think i might have to adapt
[23:12] <Nafallo> you have keyboards on other phones too.
[23:12] <paln> oh yeah, hey have, and they're on that constantly as well!
[23:13] <Nafallo> nokia comes ton mind.
[23:13] <paln> *they
[23:13] <Nafallo> s/on/o/
[23:13] <HazRPG> paln: android just dominated over here, and that's without even telling people "oh its awesome" it just sort of happened
[23:13] <webpigeon> It's odd that people treat a messenger which you pay monthly for on a phone is a 'feature'
[23:13] <HazRPG> paln: sadly, yes... and no I don't really use it...
[23:13] <paln> webpigeon: I know
[23:13] <swat_> Nafallo: i haven't found anything that compares to the blackberry keyboard though
[23:14] <paln> my sister, being opposite me in level of intellect, thought B was free texts
[23:14] <paln> *BBM
[23:14] <HazRPG> xD
[23:15] <paln> why kernel does Damn Small use?
[23:15] <paln> version 4 of DSL, that is
[23:15] <webpigeon> paln: Linux 2.4.x i think
[23:15] <HazRPG> anyone remember genie sms website that let you send free text's online?
[23:16] <HazRPG> before o2 bought them out and incorporated it into their site
[23:16] <webpigeon> I think they decided 2.6.x was too big (a while ago)
[23:16] <HazRPG> yeah... I used that...
[23:16] <HazRPG> easiest way to 300 free texts a month (or was...)
[23:16] <webpigeon> Typing your mobile (or a friends mobile) number into a random webpage is a sure fire way to get a headake.
[23:17] <paln> OK, cos virtual box need to know which of  2.{2,4,6} is the kernel
[23:17] <HazRPG> webpigeon: back then I had a nokia, and used windows... so all my contacts were backup up on the PC using their contacts tool
[23:17] <paln> webpigeon: lol duh
[23:17] <jutnux> My Dad keeps getting texts from a chruch
[23:17] <jutnux> church
[23:18] <paln> HazRPG: I Remeber Genie chips from O2 as my sister had one
[23:18] <webpigeon> paln: I *think* it's 2.4, but it's just to allocate ram and for a pretty icon i belive
[23:18] <HazRPG> webpigeon: baring in mind I was also about 13 at the time
[23:18] <HazRPG> paln: I think that was after genie was bought out
[23:19] <HazRPG> I use to do all sorts of stupid hacks back in the day
[23:20] <HazRPG> I think I was the only kid at school that actually owned a direct-link cable for my phone
[23:20] <Nafallo> hmmm
[23:20] <HazRPG> as in the 6 pronged thing that you had to hook up to the back of the phone (you took out the battery first, and place it in)
[23:20] <Nafallo> pretty sure my first phone didn't have such an connectivity option.
[23:21] <HazRPG> Nafallo: most did, it was the cable that was impossible to find
[23:21] <HazRPG> Nafallo: the connection was used for debugging (or designed for that job) along with resetting stuff on the phone - shops mainly used them to "unlock" the phones
[23:21] <Nafallo> ehrm. are we talking the kind of phones that you couldn't fit in a jeanspocket?
[23:21] <HazRPG> Nafallo: nokia 3310
[23:22] <HazRPG> Nafallo: so no lol
[23:22] <HazRPG> my first phone was awful
[23:22] <HazRPG> antenna, etc
[23:22] <Nafallo> that was YEARS after my first phone :-)
[23:23] <HazRPG> Nafallo: nokia 3310 wasn't my first phone :P
[23:24] <HazRPG> but it /was/ the phone (which I still own, and still has perfect battery life and serves as my backup) that I had the longest
[23:24] <HazRPG> -I*
[23:24] <HazRPG> actually no I was right first time
[23:25] <Nafallo> I sometimes miss my third phones (I believe it was)
[23:25] <Nafallo> s/phones/-s/
[23:25] <HazRPG> heh
[23:25] <HazRPG> nokia 3310 all the way
[23:25] <Nafallo> Nokia 7110 :-)
[23:25] <HazRPG> you could nuke it, and it'll still work
[23:25] <Nafallo> had it for 6 years.
[23:26] <HazRPG> Nafallo: I still have my 3310!
[23:26] <Nafallo> but not as primary/only phone :-)
[23:26] <HazRPG> well no...
[23:27] <HazRPG> woah, I just dug up my first "polyphonic" phone
[23:27] <HazRPG> thought I threw this out
[23:28] <HazRPG> I still think they should have been called midi tones
[23:28] <HazRPG> that's all they were
[23:29] <HazRPG> (I'm currently packing because I'm moving, and I'm finding all kinds of old stuff)
[23:29] <jutnux> Ubuntu servers, y u no hurry up and find mai key
[23:30] <HazRPG> jutnux: probably your wireless cable messing with things ;D
[23:31] <jutnux> Finally, it's found it.
[23:32] <HazRPG> check top, sounds like something is hogging your cpu
[23:33] <jutnux> Nah it's okay
[23:34]  * swat_ is excited, upgrade nearly complete
[23:35] <HazRPG> swat_: 12.04?
[23:35] <swat_> HazRPG: aye
[23:36] <HazRPG> swat_: \o/
[23:37] <swat_> reboot time :D
[23:41] <swat_> right, i'm there
[23:41] <swat_> now to find out what's different/better/cooler
[23:43] <webpigeon> Changelog?
[23:51] <paln> you guys still here?
[23:51] <jutnux> Sorry
[23:51]  * paln feels lonely
[23:51] <jutnux> was importing my pgp key
[23:51] <paln> oh good
[23:52] <paln> :D
[23:52] <paln> I meant everyone else
[23:52] <paln> I realised you were busy with some server
[23:52] <paln> webpigeon just disappeared!
[23:52] <jutnux> It's all cool now
[23:53] <paln> anyways jutnux how long you been using Linux as a whole
[23:53] <jutnux> Well
[23:53] <jutnux> 2 years properly
[23:53] <jutnux> and before that I kept hopping from Ubuntu to Windows
[23:54] <paln> I've been using it 2 years whatsoever
[23:54] <paln> what dyou mean "properly")
[23:54] <paln> *?
[23:54] <paln> I still dual boot
[23:54] <paln> but only for Windows Applications
[23:54] <paln> like iTunes mainly
[23:54] <webpigeon> paln: not disappeared, playing with arch in a VM :)
[23:54] <paln> cos of my iPhone
[23:55] <jutnux> Just use banshee you silly fool.
[23:55] <paln> it doesn't really do justice in WinE
[23:55] <paln> webpigeon: ah cool
[23:55] <paln> webpigeon: the reason I used arch was to see if plain old lxde would suit my needs
[23:56] <jutnux> I like Unity.
[23:56] <webpigeon> I just like playing with new things :)
[23:56] <paln> or rather, my shitty ten year old pcs needs
[23:56]  * jutnux awaits sh**storm
[23:56] <paln> dal
[23:56] <paln> btw, dsl confuses me
[23:56] <paln> the documentation start page is wrong
[23:57] <paln> it says JWM should have a "Start" button ( you know, like Puppy ) but there is nothing!
[23:58] <webpigeon> paln: right click?
[23:58] <paln> yes I switched WMs to make sure :/
[23:58] <paln> anyways, can't go back to the PC ATM so will have to try tomorrow
[23:58] <webpigeon> Haven't used it in ages
[23:59] <paln> webpigeon: yea tht works but it doesn't make sense as to why either te documentation feels like lying to me or the OS wants to tease me by hiding the task bar
[23:59] <paln> alright guys night
[23:59] <paln> I'm gonna watch some Misfits on 4oD