[00:00] <Martyn> Oakland.
[00:00] <Martyn> Frigging -Oakland-
[00:00] <Martyn> Not even Berkeley ... or Monterrey or something ...
[00:00] <Martyn> ---Oakland---
[00:00] <Martyn> *groan*
[00:06] <JanC> what's wrong with Oakland?
[00:06]  * JanC is clueless
[01:59] <nigelb> Martyn: lol
[02:04] <Martyn> JanC : Well, lets start with ... if the Bay Area needed an enema, it likely might be inserted in Oakland?
[02:04] <Martyn> It's not a very nice city, and in some ways it's a dangerous one (depending where you are)
[02:05] <Martyn> It has the highest crime rate of any city in the Bay Area, and a police force to match
[02:05] <Martyn> That's why we had all that violence around Occupy Oakland
[02:06] <Martyn> There are many more beautiful places to pick in the San Francisco/Bay Area ... any one of which could have been the equal of the cities we have used for UDS in the past
[02:06] <Martyn> And there are many locations that could have handled UDS (with room to spare!)
[02:07] <Martyn> Or, put another way, we have been staying in truly lovely places .. sometimes out of the way .. but this is really an oddball choice
[02:07] <nigelb> I suspect the cost of the venue came into play.
[02:07] <Martyn> nigelb: Pfft.
[02:08] <nigelb> I hear Canonical's in a cost-saving mode for everything.
[02:08] <Martyn> nigelb : We could have chosen San Jose then
[02:08] <nigelb> Note - I have no clue about the choices in the location. I've never been there!
[02:08] <Martyn> nigelb : The Emerald Suites hotel in San Bruno could have handled us just as easily, and probably more cheaply.
[02:09] <Martyn> nigelb: I was born and raised in the Bay Area .. and we've got a number of Canonical people who, like me, are intimately familiar with the area.   I'm sure every single one of us is groaning the same way.
[02:09] <nigelb> haha
[02:09] <Martyn> Nigel, what's home for you?
[02:10] <Martyn> I think I can come up with an adequate comparison if it's somewhere I've travelled before...
[02:10] <nigelb> Bangalore, India :)
[02:11] <Martyn> Okay, easy to make a comparison then .. it would be like hosting UDS in Karachi
[02:11] <nigelb> o_O
[02:11] <Martyn> I've been to India :)
[02:12] <nigelb> okay, now I know exactly how much you're facepalming.
[02:13] <Martyn> Maybe not -quite- as bad as Karachi, but there -are- drive-by shootings in Oakland quite regularly.
[02:14] <nigelb> that's disturbingly scary.
[02:14] <Martyn> I KNIOW
[02:14] <nigelb> Its like otu of  a GTA game.
[02:15] <Martyn> We've been discussing it here in-person, and most of the guys here are worried
[02:15] <Martyn> Um, GTA game -is- based on Oakland
[02:15] <nigelb> oh joy.
[02:15] <Martyn> I think that choosing Oakland as the conference site is .. frankly .. showing a lack of forethought, and actually putting people who attend in danger
[02:16] <Martyn> It's -not- a nice city
[02:16] <Martyn> it's -not- a safe city (even though it's surrounded by very nice places .. Berkeley, and San Francisco just across the bay)
[02:17] <Martyn> It's -not- a desireable destination (for many reasons)
[02:17] <Martyn> So, yeah, *facepalm*
[02:17] <nigelb> heh
[02:21] <Martyn> This is going to take a massive amount of "spin"
[02:22] <Martyn> Although at least it's nearby for me .. heck, I live right across the bay in the quite nice city of Millbrae every other week
[02:22] <Martyn> (And Austin Texas the other weeks)
[02:22] <nigelb> you travel every week?
[02:22]  * nigelb bows
[02:22] <Martyn> Every monday, yep
[02:22] <Martyn> "Oakland, it's Not So Bad(tm)"
[02:22] <Martyn> Maybe I can print up T-Shirts that say "Shoot the Other Guy"
[02:23] <nigelb> haha
[02:23] <nigelb> that'd be epic
[02:23] <Martyn> I'm just having real nightmares, thinking about .. say .. Davie and Jono wanting to go out to a nearby "pub" and trying to get a beer at an Oakland bar
[02:24] <Martyn> Or what some of our less-than-sober attendees could get into
[02:24] <Martyn> I mean, there are parts of Oakland where you might get assaulted for wearing the wrong clothes .. much less for being the wrong color.
[02:40] <pangolin> I find it a little hard to believe that all of Oakland is "bad"
[02:40]  * pangolin has never been there though but there must be a nice area in Oakland
[02:44] <Martyn> http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g32810-d80433-r120551630-Marriott_Oakland_City_Center-Oakland_California.html
[02:45] <Martyn> pangolin : Look, there are 'nice' parts anywhere... but you don't have to believe me (someone who has lived in the Bay Area most of his life)
[02:45] <Martyn> Just do a little research into Oakland using good 'ol google
[02:45] <Martyn> There's Jack London square (nice, some nice restaurants)
[02:45] <Martyn> there's Lake Merritt
[02:46] <Martyn> but that's the "tourist view" of the place.  When it comes to places in the bay area, Oakland is -known- for being the 'bad bit'
[02:47] <Martyn> But .. when a hotel review contains a sentence like "The hotel had hired a number of uniformed and plain clothes guards to keep unwanted people out of the hotel. The large crowd marched past the hotel and one point but didn't see any issues. Unfortunately, the day after was met with a lot of graffiti on buildings in the blocks around the hotel."
[02:47] <Martyn> You .. kind of have to take it at face value and think.
[02:48] <Martyn> "Everything was renovated on the inside. The hotel however is located in downtown Oakland, CA, which is not the best area. Around the hotel was OK, there was a farmers market right behin it on Friday, but further down was so-so."
[02:49] <Martyn> I don't mean to harp on it this hard ...  I'm just utterly shocked by the choice.
[02:52] <Martyn> Another gem from the review section "i know you cant do much about Okland being so shady but one of the people in our conference group stepped outside for a minute and a hudlum walked by and snatched the phone off her hand!!! maybe this has nothing to do with the hotel but that's why i say the location is aweful. if you can afford $10/night stay on the bay. "
[03:04] <cjohnston> /23'/11
[22:47] <MrChrisDruif> Merry Christmas everyone
[22:52] <mhall119> merry christmas MrChrisDruif
[22:53] <czajkowski> Nollaig Shona Dhuit / Merry Christmas
[22:53] <MrChrisDruif> mhall119; thanks
[22:56] <doctormon> mhall119: hi
[22:59] <mhall119> doctormon: howdy
[22:59] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; are you letting your beard grow? =D
[22:59] <mhall119> doctormon: awesome conversation you started about those icons
[23:00] <AlanBell> for a bit
[23:03] <doctormon> mhall119: You've talked to others?
[23:04] <MrChrisDruif> Conversation about icons? mhall119 doctormon ?
[23:06] <doctormon> The word to test is 'set' as it's the most definitions of the most types.
[23:08] <mhall119> doctormon: referring to the comments on your blog
[23:11] <doctormon> Aye, I'm looking at Wiktionary, it has much better seperations.
[23:13] <mhall119> if there's an API I can query, I can use it
[23:21] <doctormon> It looks like there is a standard media wiki api
[23:21] <doctormon> But plenty of examples I'm looking at are scraping