[18:18] <MarkDude> akk, you ok with your pics from release party being included in Fedora Foundations video?
[18:19] <akk> Sure, MarkDude
[18:19] <MarkDude> I know D is ok with it, and assume you are also
[18:19] <MarkDude> :)
[18:19] <MarkDude> Cool
[18:19] <MarkDude> I had another question
[18:20] <MarkDude> WHAT would be the most helpful thing for GIMP, as far as progressing the project?
[18:20] <MarkDude> Volunteers?
[18:20] <MarkDude> I see GIMP as one of the last great needs of FOSS
[18:20] <akk> It needs volunteers -- but volunteering is tricky. As with a lot of projects, there are lots of rules about what can/can't be done
[18:20] <akk> and who can get involved where
[18:21] <akk> (much like ubuntu or any big project).
[18:21] <MarkDude> IS there any effort from say Ubuntu and Fedora and others?
[18:21] <akk> effort from the distros to contribute to gimp? No.
[18:21] <MarkDude> I mean, most Distros should see GIMP as needed to be helped
[18:22] <MarkDude> Not to be evil, but I have been using CS5
[18:22] <akk> I get the impression ubuntu sees gimp as sort of an annoyance (dropping it from the release). Not sure about fedora.
[18:22] <MarkDude> The program is great (and evil)
[18:22] <MarkDude> Well Fedora could get behind it more
[18:23] <pleia2> it's a huge annoyance to new uses who go to support forums to complain about how hard it is to use
[18:23] <MarkDude> I figure Ubuntu could get into an easier to use, more streamlined version
[18:23] <pleia2> s/uses/users
[18:23] <pleia2> "normal" people want MS Paint, not Photoshop :\
[18:23] <akk> Unfortunately, anything that involves changing the UI in any way is a huge pile of worms and it's not likely someone new to the project would change anything.
[18:24] <akk> True enough, pleia2 -- gimp (and PS too) are advanced tools, and very hard for a beginner to use.
[18:25] <akk> MarkDude: This would actually be a relatively good time for new developers to get involved with gimp.
[18:25] <akk> MarkDude: For a long time the project was kind of hostile, but most of that element has moved on.
[18:26] <akk> (It's still intimidating and full of rules, not something I'd recommend to a newbie, but an experienced dev could get involved without getting insulted or abused much.)
[18:29] <MarkDude> Cool
[18:30]  * MarkDude sees this as sumthin' that goes beyond any one Distro
[18:30] <MarkDude> pleia2, normal folks want sumthin like maint.net
[18:30] <MarkDude> MS paint is horrible
[18:31] <MarkDude> I think they allow jpgs now, but defaults to bmp
[18:31] <MarkDude> paint.net
[18:31] <akk> I've been hearing a lot about mypaint, keep meaning to try it.
[18:31] <akk> It's apparently pretty easy to get started with.
[18:31] <MarkDude> the underlying structure and parts of GIMP could be used for sumthin slightly powerful
[18:32] <MarkDude> People could get into simple *actions* onb GIMP
[18:32] <MarkDude> if they had them
[18:32] <MarkDude> Filters where you hit PLAY, and then fine tune
[18:33] <akk> That will supposedly become easier as gegl becomes more integrated
[18:33] <akk> though someone already made a plug-in even without gegl that does that
[18:33] <akk> but apparently it requires a lot of maintenance, because its list of actions isn't automatically generated from the gimp src.
[18:34] <akk> That's another thing I've been wanting to look into.
[18:34] <MarkDude> Ok, thats why I asked you
[18:35] <akk> You can already write scripts (and could easily make a gui for it) to play gegl actions ... but mentally mapping gimp operations to gegl actions isn't something people quite grok yet (including me, must remedy that soon).
[18:35] <akk> I expect I'll be learning a lot more about that over the next 6 months (3rd edition probably actually happening!)
[18:35] <akk> and giving talks on gegl scripting next year.
[18:39] <MarkDude> Ok, so high on the list would be mapping *or creating represntation * of gegl?
[18:39] <MarkDude> To help see it, then the loose ends would more likely be able to be addressed
[18:40] <philipballew> pleia2, pm for a quick question?
[18:40] <akk> MarkDude: Actually, yes, that would probably be a good place for someone to get involved.
[18:41] <akk> MarkDude: It could be done at least mostly as a plug-in, so it wouldn't need a lot of buy-in from the gimp core planners.
[18:41] <MarkDude> So GIMP forums would be the place to go?
[18:41] <akk> MarkDude: And the gegl dev (pippin) is in favor of tools like that.
[18:41] <akk> MarkDude: yes, #gimp and/or #gegl on gimpnet -- probably start with #gimp.
[18:41] <akk> During European hours.
[18:41] <MarkDude> Ah, makes sense
[18:42]  * MarkDude just sees there are so many great parts and pieces with GIMP
[18:42] <MarkDude> and it still does some really cool stuff that even CS5 does not
[18:43] <MarkDude> I had a friend tell me I would burn in hell for using CS5
[18:43] <MarkDude> :D
[18:43] <MarkDude> They are maybe correct. At least my using Win 7 could do that
[18:44] <akk> That might be a little extreme. :)
[18:50] <MarkDude> lol
[18:50] <MarkDude> Take a look at some of the zombie pics later, if you could
[18:50] <MarkDude> I am getting mixed reviews
[18:51] <MarkDude> hmmm, I did not have you on comic list on FB, added you. I can remove you if you like
[18:52] <MarkDude> pleia2, opted out of that list. UW folks are interested about 50% of the time
[18:57] <pleia2> philipballew: sure
[18:59] <akk> I never see FB lists anyway ... never figured out how those work.
[18:59] <MarkDude> akk, they are awesome
[18:59] <akk> I stopped having time to check FB and G+ when I started the ML class
[18:59]  * MarkDude realized only a few people cared about Jono and his metal
[18:59] <akk> and now it's over but I have tons of other stuff to do (fun hacking projects)
[19:00] <MarkDude> So I created a rock list
[19:00] <MarkDude> and post loud music to that
[19:00] <MarkDude> I have a comic list, since go figure, some folks dont want to see zombie stuff
[19:01] <MarkDude> I also have a short list of people that I care most about their updates
[19:01] <MarkDude> A list like that for you would be good
[19:01]  * akk needs to get her head out of this interesting HTML simplification project and back to work on my cool SCALE demo
[19:01] <MarkDude> We care most about just a few people
[19:01] <akk> These FB lists basically just control who sees your updates, and then people see them if they're regularly checking their FB streams?
[19:02] <MarkDude> making HTML simple? Whats your demo
[19:02] <MarkDude> well lists are two fold
[19:02] <MarkDude> I use it mostly to publish to specific people
[19:02]  * MarkDude overshares, and people complained
[19:02] <akk> MarkDude: My demo involves a cool robot project controlled from my laptop, and I don't want to go into too much detail ahead of time
[19:03] <MarkDude> I do have 2-3 lists of people that are most interesting
[19:03] <akk> I hope to demo it live at my SCALE talk (Sunday afternoon) assuming I can get it working reliably enough.
[19:03] <MarkDude> a tech list
[19:03] <MarkDude> just my tech friends
[19:03] <MarkDude> They usually dont have crapville requests
[19:03] <MarkDude> Which, by blocking most apps, my feede is now sorta useful
[19:06] <akk> I always blocked apps. But it's still a hassle to have to go there several times a day, and try to remember which updates I've seen before and which I haven't.
[19:06] <akk> It's a very inefficient model for keeping up with anyone, and I found it took too much time.
[19:07] <MarkDude> true
[19:07] <MarkDude> if you had a tech list, close friend list, and maybe one more
[19:07] <MarkDude> for family
[19:07] <MarkDude> Just dont have people on two or more lists
[19:08] <MarkDude> You dont see the same stuff
[19:08] <akk> Maybe they've finally changed that. They used to show things out of order, so every time I checked, there would be some new stuff and some old stuff.
[19:08] <MarkDude> I check my family list every so often, and dont miss stuff, and dont see the same stuff again
[19:08] <akk> They'd try to bubble "popular" things and things that had recent replies up higher in the list.
[19:08] <MarkDude> with good lists
[19:09] <MarkDude> Yes, it places us FB whores on top of feed
[19:09] <akk> If I checked once a day on every web forum (incl. FB and G+) that interests me, I'd do nothing else but check websites.
[19:09] <MarkDude> Not so good, just because all sorts of idiots wrote about it- does NOT make it interesting
[19:09] <akk> I wish it had a push model, where it would just send me the new stuff since the last update.
[19:09] <akk> You know, like email. :)
[19:09] <MarkDude> When you have recent 1st checked
[19:10] <MarkDude> you can do that, I can check the interersting stuff in a few minutes, with lists
[19:11]  * MarkDude will wroite a post on this, FB is more useful for me now
[19:11] <akk> I'd like to read your post (please announce it somewhere other than FB, so people who need to read it will see it :)
[19:12] <MarkDude> lol
[19:12] <MarkDude> I can do that
[19:12] <MarkDude> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150472335118805&set=a.10150389370018805.376793.717333804&type=3&theater
[19:13] <MarkDude> Zombies
[19:13] <akk> will try to remember to look later ... not sure I even have my FB profile set up on this machine
[19:13] <MarkDude> And not gross ones either, I had a few folks complain, mine are old skool mind control zombies, like with voodoo
[19:13] <akk> and that's members only, can't see it w/o a FB account
[19:13] <MarkDude> Yep, well some folks prefer to not see them.
[19:14] <MarkDude> I am putting some on picasa to make it easier
[19:15] <MarkDude> oh, before I go, I salute your soon-to-be supybot overlord you are making
[19:15] <MarkDude> :D
[20:06] <MarkDude> akk,  did any of your berries get killed by frost?
[20:07] <MarkDude> One of my plants did, the rest are fine
[20:07] <MarkDude> One had the tips die
[20:07] <akk> Not sure yet -- it was okay (a little brown) when I left.
[20:08] <akk> I gave it a lot of water beforehand, hoping that helps (supposedly it does).
[20:16] <MarkDude> Yep , I think the one that died lacked water before
[20:16] <MarkDude> So it was not happy