[01:20] <ScottK> Riddell: I've uploaded python-qt4 4.9 with Python3 stuff packaged to Debian so someone can merge it now.
[01:21] <ScottK> (It can't be sync'ed until after fabo multi-arches qt4-x11 in Debian)
[02:33] <ScottK> yofel: ^^^ yon python-qt4 update also fixes pykde4 not building.
[03:11] <ScottK> Riddell: agateau emailed me to tell me he applied my gwenview fixes upstream.
[06:20] <ybit3> http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/marble-commits/2010-July/001279.html
[06:20] <ybit3> wondering if this installed with marble-plugins
[06:22] <ybit3> https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/marble/repository/revisions/416ce8b0ef25fd91ea90fc758cb0af33ad17a167/entry/src/plugins/runner/latlon/LatLonRunner.cpp
[06:22] <ybit3> i guess this is the better link
[07:40] <yottabit> ping anyone
[09:42] <debfx> ScottK: wouldn't it make sense to split up the python3-pyqt4 package so each qt module has an own package?
[12:09] <fabo> debfx: do you know where I can find older build log for qt4-x11?
[12:10] <Riddell> fabo: on launchpad?
[12:10] <ScottK> debfx: Perhaps.  Currently it's the same as python-qt4.
[12:11] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+publishinghistory linked to e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/qt4-x11/4:4.7.4-0ubuntu7 linked under builds
[12:12] <Riddell> debfx: I was kindae hoping ubuntu desktop would do the python-qt4 splitting since it's mostly in their advantage
[12:13] <fabo> Riddell: thanks!
[13:20] <debfx> Riddell: do they even use python-qt4?
[13:28] <Riddell> debfx: ubuntu one does
[13:28] <Riddell> or is about to
[13:28] <Riddell> and they haven't decided how it could go on the cd yet, they were still musing download on first use when I asked
[14:00] <ScottK> Half the package is in QtCore and QtGui, so not sure how much splitting will help.
[14:01] <Riddell> right enough
[14:02] <ScottK> Splitting out QtWebkit might make sense, but dunno about the rest.
[14:03] <Riddell> it also makes packaging pyqt apps more fiddly since there's no shlibs to add the necessary ones for you
[14:03] <ScottK> Yep.
[14:04] <ScottK> First I need to fix my python3 messups (Debian Bug #653567)
[14:06] <Riddell> how did you handle libpythonplugin.so ?
[14:06] <Riddell> because python-kde4 has more files like that
[14:08] <ScottK> Only built it for python, not python3
[14:09] <ScottK> Not sure how to get the stuff that's not in a versioned python directory built for both.
[14:12] <Riddell> fiddly I expect
[14:43] <debfx> ScottK: it's not just the bindings but also the the actual Qt libraries that take space
[14:43] <ScottK> Good point, but I think those will be on the Ubuntu CD anyway.
[14:44] <ScottK> It probably wouldn't be that hard to make a tool that parsed the source to figure out which PyQy4 dependencies were needed.
[14:48] <Riddell> when I first packaged something in python I read that debhelper or some pythonic part of it could do that for python modules, I've not come across it working though
[14:49] <ScottK> The various python helpers will figure what python interpreter packages you need, but not modules or extensions.  I've seen people confuse the two.
[14:50] <ScottK> dh_python2/3 can do it for packages that have a requires.txt from upstream, but that wouldn't help much if we do a distro level split.
[14:50] <ScottK> POX is probably the one with the best idea about how to go about it though.
[14:51] <debfx> we can still keep python3-pyqt4 as a metapackage that depends on all modules
[14:52] <ScottK> You'll need two things:
[14:53] <ScottK> 1. A metapackage to install everything.
[14:53] <ScottK> 2. A "common" package for the stuff every module needs.
[14:54] <ScottK> BTW, you'll need to merge python-qt4 again shortly.  The python3 packages aren't installable.  Fixing.
[15:34] <Riddell> cor there are upsteam networkmanagement releases
[15:34] <Riddell> I wonder if we should rename the source to networkmanagement
[15:34] <Riddell> bit generic
[15:49] <apachelogger> as is partitionmanager for that matter
[16:15] <debfx> better convince our upstreams (kde and debian) to rename it first
[16:37] <jjesse> Darkwing, hey i'm looking at kubuntu docs bugs and a lot that show as fixed committed are still in the precise branch, any ideas whats going on w/ that?
[16:41] <ScottK> New python-qt4 is uploaded in Debian.
[17:11] <Riddell> jjesse: well precise branch means it's fixed for normal bugs
[17:11] <jjesse> Riddell,  the last comment shows the bug was fixed in the oneric branch of kubuntu docs, but if i look at the precise kubuntu doc branch the bug still exists
[17:11] <jjesse> which is why i am confused 
[17:14] <Riddell> jjesse: ah so needs forward copying the change?
[17:18]  * ScottK looks at http://stage.catalogue.gcp.cust.bluerange.se/catalogue/200/240-260-78/Section_43_page_706.gif and wonders if he's bitten off more than he can chew.
[17:19] <Riddell> that's almost as bad as putting a brompton axle back together
[17:20] <ScottK> We own two 1991 Volvo 240s and one came up with a bad transmission.  My theory is get the dead transmission back (I bought a used one to replace it) and then rebuild it so I'll have one ready the next time one goes.
[17:23] <ScottK> Riddell: python-qt4 needs let out of New.
[17:30] <Riddell> python3-pyqt4 inconsistent name compared to python-qt4?
[17:34] <Riddell> /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/PyQt4/phonon.cpython-32mu.so gosh this dh_python3 does strange things to the filenames
[17:34] <Riddell> ScottK: main or universe?
[17:38] <ScottK> Riddell: Universe for now I'd say.
[17:38] <ScottK> Depends on if we end up with python or python3 at the end which is in Main
[18:00] <yottabit> ping anyone
[18:01] <yottabit> is _anyone_ around
[18:03] <yottabit> i want to know if i need to use kde's repos or some kubuntu development branch?
[18:06] <yofel> for what?
[18:06] <yofel> yottabit: ^
[18:06] <yottabit> yofel: I'm writing a krunner extension
[18:07] <yottabit> it will be dpending on a feature that comes in marble 1.3
[18:09] <yottabit> ..and i have time today to work on it......
[18:09] <yottabit> but i'm not sure how to get started
[18:09] <yottabit> marble 1.3 is part of kde 4.8
[18:10] <yofel> well, you could use the RC packages then if you want to make it, but if you want to send it upstream then it has to work against trunk. (which shouldn't be much of an issue for a krunner extension I think)
[18:12] <Riddell> can also use project neon for up to date packages of trunk
[18:13] <yottabit> project neon or rc packages?
[18:13] <yottabit> i don't know what the difference is atm
[18:14] <yottabit> i guess by rc, yofel, you are referring to kde stuff
[18:14] <yottabit> kde git repos
[18:14] <yottabit> Riddell: what is the trunk?
[18:15] <yofel> no, rc is 4.7.95 - i.e kde 4.8 RC1, which we have in precise and ppa for oneiric, neon would be packages from git
[18:17] <yottabit> does neon contribute back to kde itself?
[18:18] <yottabit> looks like povaddict answered my question in #kde-devel
[18:18] <yottabit> [12:10] <PovAddict> distros only have minor patches
[18:18] <yottabit> [12:11] <PovAddict> not a whole branch where they do actual development in
[18:19] <yofel> all neon does is provide daily built packages of kde from git - we don't do anything that would make sense to send to kde. 
[18:19] <yofel> right
[18:19] <yofel> yottabit: The useres of neon use it with the intention of sending their work to kde though
[18:20] <yofel> as they're essentially working on git, they just don't build everything themselves
[18:20] <yottabit> do they use apt-get source to get the stuff they want to work on?
[18:21] <yofel> well, you can get the specific neon package with apt-get source, or clone the git repos from kde - only difference is that the packages are up to 1 day older than git
[18:23] <yofel> yottabit: in case you didn't find it yet: http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Using_Project_Neon_to_contribute_to_KDE
[18:23] <yottabit> aha
[18:23] <yottabit> i didn't, thank you
[18:24] <yottabit> how would you work in neon without destabilizing your system?
[18:24] <yottabit> wondering if it's practical to have a virtualbox environment for this
[18:24] <yofel> yottabit: let's move to #project-neon
[18:55] <ScottK> Riddell: qt4-x11 4.8 is in Debian experimental.
[19:01] <Riddell> ooh
[19:02] <yofel> \o/
[20:24] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: muon will get kickoff integration?
[20:24] <apachelogger> word order fail ... "will muon.."
[20:25] <yottabit> http://pastie.org/3092101
[20:25] <yottabit> using the neon stuff
[20:26] <yottabit> ofc it failed before using the neon stuff too :)
[20:39] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: you mean the right-click uninstallation stuffs?
[20:46] <apachelogger> yottabit: because the example is crap
[20:46] <apachelogger> yottabit: go poke someone in #plasma
[20:47] <apachelogger> that init(self) is mosdef missing a : at the end
[20:47] <apachelogger> python being a silly language and all
[20:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yus
[20:47] <apachelogger> yottabit: I am reasonable certain using javascript would be better
[20:47] <apachelogger> or c++ for that matter
[20:48] <yottabit> thanks for the input
[20:48] <yottabit> just got my burrito from taco bell, going to chow for a bit
[20:48] <Riddell> bah, apachelogger is just a weird language fanboy, he's biased
[20:49] <Riddell> see how weird c++ is http://jriddell.org/const-in-cpp.html  I've never understood that page, and I wrote it!
[20:50]  * apachelogger pondered learning gaelic today
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> lol
[20:50] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I hadn't given it much thought, but it wouldn't be too hard to write a simple helper app to do that.
[20:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that is why I am asking :P
[20:52]  * apachelogger always found the concept of having to use a package manager to uninstall an *app* super bogus
[20:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: any language without words for "yes" or "no" is just as nuts as c++
[20:53] <apachelogger> lol
[20:55] <jussi> and c++ is just as nuts as apachelogger
[20:55] <jussi> wait... nah, apachelogger is more nuts than that...
[20:55] <jussi> :P
[21:09] <apachelogger> :O
[21:37] <ScottK> Riddell: The libpython that pykde4 isn't finding with python3 is /usr/lib/libpython3.2so - so it's a CMake problem, not a we need to package more PyQt4 stuff problem.
[21:37] <ScottK> For a python build it finds -- Found Python library: /usr/lib/libpython2.7.so
[21:37] <ScottK> That should be fixable.
[21:52] <Riddell> ScottK: hmm so needs Sime to look at it but he's not always responsive these days
[21:52] <Riddell> python3-pyqt4 accepted into universe
[21:52] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:56] <yottabit> apachelogger: js doesn't have good nlp libs
[21:57] <yottabit> that's why i'm using python
[21:57] <yottabit> nltk
[21:57] <yottabit> turns out others can't get this example to work
[21:57] <yottabit> verified in #kde-devel
[21:58] <yottabit> it was missing a colon at the end of function definition on line 7
[21:58] <yottabit> fixed that
[21:59] <yottabit> changed X-KDE-PluginInfo-Name=runner_msgbox to X-KDE-PluginInfo-Name=msgbox_runner
[21:59] <yottabit> removed the currently installed app
[21:59] <yottabit> reinstalled
[21:59] <yottabit> no luck
[21:59] <yottabit> http://pastie.org/3092384
[22:00] <yottabit> oh, and you can see that i put code/main.py in msgbox_runner/contents/
[22:00] <yottabit> ..which wasn't mentioned in the tutorial, but is the correct dir structure for plasma apps
[22:01] <yottabit> i also ran all this from within neon-env
[22:01] <yottabit> and verified i'm using neon apps using which
[22:01] <Riddell> yottabit: as you can tell there's not a great deal of people using python for krunners :(
[22:01] <Riddell> so the tutorial may have mistakes or it may just not work
[22:02] <yottabit> and there isn't documentation on the plasmascript class
[22:02] <yottabit> or function or method or whatever it is
[22:02] <Riddell> yottabit: you can also try on the kde-bindings mailing list but you're unlikely to get an immediate answer
[22:02] <yottabit> http://api.kde.org/pykde-4.5-api/
[22:02] <yottabit> plasma but no plasmascript
[22:20] <apachelogger> yottabit: plasma script api is documented on techbase.kde.org
[22:20] <apachelogger> also for advanced debugging of krunner you might want to fire up kdebugdialog
[22:20] <apachelogger> and activate everything
[22:20] <apachelogger> then krunner should be more verbose on the terminal
[22:20] <apachelogger> in particular about python interpreter errors
[22:21] <yottabit> apachelogger: very nice!
[22:21] <yottabit> can you point me to the documention on techbase?
[22:22] <yottabit> http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&ns0=1&redirs=1&search=plasmascript&limit=500&offset=0
[22:22] <apachelogger> oh well
[22:22] <apachelogger> maybe only javascript is documented
[22:22] <yottabit> tsk tsk
[22:22] <apachelogger> which would make sense since it is the preferred choice
[22:22] <apachelogger> anywho
[22:22] <apachelogger> yottabit: the plasma c++ api should translate to python 
[22:22] <apachelogger> there are only marginal difference
[22:23] <apachelogger> like the lack of pointers 
[22:23] <yottabit> okay
[22:30] <BarkingFish> guys, do you know if there is a specific way of connecting wirelessly to a network with the SSID hidden?
[22:30] <BarkingFish> User aaschez in #kubuntu is trying to access a wireless connection with hidden SSID, but the kde network management icon isn't doing anything.
[22:31] <Riddell> I don't use wifi these days so I don't know, upstream is lamarque in #plasma
[22:31] <yottabit> #aircrack
[22:32] <BarkingFish> Riddell: ok, cheers
[22:32] <yottabit> BarkingFish: i'm not sure if that's the recommended method
[22:32] <yottabit> probably too complicated a solution
[22:32] <yottabit> since you'll be using command line tools
[22:32] <yottabit> and i'm assuming he/she wants to use knetworkmanager
[22:33] <BarkingFish> yottabit: he just needs to get a connection - he can do it through android, but nothing else.
[22:34] <BarkingFish> The only other thing I know which connects to hidden wifi is wicd
[22:34] <yottabit> probably need to run aircrack to detect the hidden network
[22:34] <yottabit> then manually create it in knetworkmanager
[22:36] <BarkingFish> yottabit: he knows the SSID and password, just can't get onto it
[22:36] <yottabit> ah
[22:36] <BarkingFish> the SSID is his work network, which has the SSID hidden for security reasons
[22:37] <yottabit> if you click the knetworkmanager icon there's a box which says "hidden network" and after clicking it, you proceed to entering in this info
[22:37] <yottabit> no need for aircrack
[22:39] <BarkingFish> yottabit: as I said, he's tried that, and it's not working.
[22:40] <BarkingFish> It just sits there like a spare sandwich at a buffet, and does nothing at all.
[22:40] <Riddell> there's newer networkmanagement tars to be packaged which might help (or might now I don't know)
[22:43] <yottabit> network-manager-gnome
[22:43] <yottabit> apt-get install that if he can't get knetworkmanager to work
[22:44] <yottabit> then launch nm-applet
[22:44] <yottabit> at least he'll have a network connection
[22:44] <yottabit> knetworkmanager gave me a lot of problems in the past, and that's how i got around it
[22:55] <BarkingFish> Riddell: i just happened to mention that, lamarque told me a while back on a bug I filed with kde, that 2 days after we packaged plasma-nm, he released a new version with bug fixes in
[22:57] <BarkingFish> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=284304
[22:58] <BarkingFish> yottabit: right now, I've directed him to install wicd - I know that does hidden network connection, I've used it myself before I got nm-applet to work
[23:00] <Riddell> BarkingFish: we haven't got into the swing of packaging the releases yet, it doesn't help that he doesn't announce them anywhere but his blog but it'd on my todo list now
[23:00] <Riddell> attica just uploaded, new soname
[23:03] <BarkingFish> Riddell: well I'm set up now for packaging for precise, but I don't know how to package KDE stuff, just regular bits and bobs. And since my head injury, I need some revision on that too.
[23:03] <valorie> while nm-applet is being discussed, does anybody else have the wierd thing where the wireless doesn't start up automatically anymore?
[23:03] <BarkingFish> valorie: not here.  
[23:03] <valorie> every day I have to select the wireless to get it to start
[23:04] <valorie> for the last 4 months or so
[23:04] <BarkingFish> I have one wifi network set to kick in automatically as system connection, and it kicks in on boot when the station is transmitting. If it starts transmitting while I'm on, wifi fires up
[23:04] <valorie> it's set to go automatically, it just doesn't do it
[23:05] <valorie> 'tisn't the hardware, because the laptop has a little light, which turns on correctly
[23:05] <Riddell> BarkingFish: yeah I know how that feels
[23:06] <BarkingFish> Yeah, I met the corner of the trunk door of an SUV head on back in September, and most of the stuff I learned prior to that is a blank.
[23:07] <BarkingFish> It's taken me nigh on 3 months to learn to touch type again, I still see people and can't remember who the hell they are...
[23:07] <BarkingFish> and I lost my job because of it.
[23:07] <valorie> that sucks
[23:08] <valorie> head injuries are a big deal
[23:08] <Riddell> got canoe polo team members asking if I can play in february, not a chance
[23:08]  * valorie offers hugs to our wounded
[23:09] <BarkingFish> We didn't think this one was gonna be nasty, that's the thing.  I got a hole in the forehead on the Saturday, the sunday morning after, i couldn't switch my PC on.
[23:09] <BarkingFish> Couldn't remember the password.
[23:09] <valorie> I love reading about neuroscience
[23:10] <valorie> the brain is a weird and wonderful place
[23:10] <BarkingFish> Couldn't use my phone, my tv, satellite receiver, nothing.  Turned out to be concussion, combined with percussive injury & bruising to the parietal lobe
[23:10] <Riddell> BarkingFish: how did they work that out?
[23:10] <valorie> how is your eye, Riddell?
[23:11] <Riddell> I'm on a 12 week waiting list for the neurosurgery department to look at my head
[23:12] <Riddell> valorie: still squint, been told to go back to the eye pavillion in a couple of months to see if there's any improvement.  a long waiting game
[23:12] <BarkingFish> The concussion was diagnosed by my GP after a basic memory test, and then I had an MRI scan done which found the bruising and swelling on the back of the brain
[23:12] <Riddell> ah so you beat me for worse injury, my MRI scan was clear
[23:13] <BarkingFish> I get stuff done quicker when I need to - I have private cover to supplement NHS service, so if the NHS is gonna be slow on something for wait time, I go for my private cover.
[23:13] <BarkingFish> often I can get wait time cut to about a third or less of what it would be on the NHS
[23:15] <Riddell> NHS beats random tropical French hospital, they sent me home in a taxi and I left my notes in the taxi (being concussed) and they had no copy
[23:17] <BarkingFish> 0.0
[23:17] <valorie> yikes, did the taxi company find the notes for you?
[23:17] <BarkingFish> being concussed, I doubt you'd remember which firm took you, right?
[23:17] <Riddell> right BarkingFish 
[23:17] <valorie> :(
[23:18] <BarkingFish> so, who ordered the taxi? the hospital?
[23:18] <BarkingFish> Surely they'd know who they booked to take you home
[23:19] <valorie> that just seems so unprofessional, to give an injured person the ONLY copy
[23:19] <Riddell> they didn't but they offered me a second MRI, I decided I'd rather go home instead
[23:20] <BarkingFish> as a qualified paramedic, I can honestly say that only having a single copy of records sounds very suspicious...
[23:20] <valorie> I hope your holidays were pleasant in spite of your injuries
[23:20] <maco> BarkingFish: its the french *shrug*
[23:20] <valorie> both of you
[23:21] <maco> isnt that the answer to anything involving french & things that dont make sense?
[23:21] <Riddell> valorie: sure no pressure for me to buy presents :)
[23:21] <BarkingFish> if you lose them, there's no proof that you were treated there, which means if shit goes wrong, they're pretty much absolved from responsibility
[23:21] <BarkingFish> you've got no proof you were treated there, and they've got nothing to say what they did to you
[23:21] <Riddell> things in tropical France don't run quite like mainland France
[23:22] <Riddell> they's a bit more laid back
[23:22] <BarkingFish> like an Overseas french dependency, the kind of place RFO transmit to?
[23:26] <Riddell> guadeloupe is a department of france and part of the EU, even though geographically it's obviouslly neither
[23:28] <BarkingFish> Yeah, that's the kinda place I thought of. When you said "tropical france" i thought - there's 2 words which never go together
[23:28] <BarkingFish> :)
[23:33] <Riddell> hmm attica weird symbols on arm
[23:34] <valorie> the south of France is very warm, isn't it?
[23:34] <valorie> not tropical, though
[23:34] <BarkingFish> the last time I went to france, I discovered the meaning of wet.  
[23:35] <BarkingFish> 7 days and it did nothing but rain the whole time.  Day and night.  
[23:52]  * valorie has been to Paris, once
[23:52] <valorie> it was wonderful
[23:52] <valorie> the day it rained, it *really* rained
[23:52] <valorie> we still had fun walking around Paris
[23:52] <BarkingFish> Paris is nice.  I'm determined to go back and see it from more than the inside of my hotel
[23:54] <valorie> ah, I walked it with a native of Poissy
[23:54] <valorie> and saw some of Poissy as well
[23:54] <valorie> lovely week
[23:55] <BarkingFish> I think next time I head out that way, i'll probably vanish off to Belgium and go spend a few days with my friend Simon at VRT :)
[23:58] <valorie> that's the great thing about KDE - I now have friends all over Europe
[23:58] <valorie> and India
[23:58] <valorie> it's awesome
[23:58] <apachelogger> europe
[23:58] <apachelogger> it's a silly place
[23:58] <valorie> happy holidays, apachelogger
[23:58] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
[23:58] <apachelogger> and you
[23:58] <valorie> silly is good
[23:58] <valorie> better than American politics!
[23:58] <apachelogger> monty python silly even
[23:59] <valorie> the budgie is DEAD!
[23:59] <valorie> I discovered I can now watch Dr. W
[23:59] <valorie> on netflix
[23:59] <apachelogger> dw xmas special
[23:59] <apachelogger> omnomnom
[23:59] <apachelogger> watching it a third time right now
[23:59] <valorie> so I'm about to be engulfed