| Noldorin | mgz, how come? :-P | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| mgz | because it's bed time, just trying to finish livecd backup | 00:28 |
| mgz | (as you may have gathered, this does mean I am actually still awake, and mostly watching progress bars) | 00:31 |
| Noldorin | mgz, ah, though you were an American for some reason. | 00:42 |
| Noldorin | mgz, still want me to write that blog post about setting up bzr+ssh on windows? :-P | 00:42 |
| Noldorin | might get some time tomorrow | 00:42 |
| Noldorin | s/might/should | 00:42 |
| Noldorin | s/tomorrow/weekend | 00:42 |
| mgz | would be great if you could | 00:51 |
| Noldorin | ok will do :-) | 00:57 |
| Noldorin | back in the mood of blogging since recently | 00:57 |
| Noldorin | so shouldn't be too hard | 00:57 |
| * jelmer waves | 11:44 | |
| Movix | hi, is someone here speaking french ? | 13:25 |
| Movix | perhaps speaking german ? | 13:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | how does branching work with colocated branches? | 13:49 |
| AuroraBorealis | if i do 'bzr branch . "something" " | 13:49 |
| AuroraBorealis | then it creates the branch inside the owrking tree inside of the .bzr/branches folder | 13:49 |
| AuroraBorealis | anyone on irc? :> | 14:27 |
| mgz | hic | 14:40 |
| AuroraBorealis | hey | 14:41 |
| AuroraBorealis | first off: i still need to fix the stuff we were working on, couldn't really come on cause my video card on windows decided to die hehe | 14:41 |
| AuroraBorealis | second off: | 14:42 |
| AuroraBorealis | mr Movix is trying to set up a sepcific workspace flow thingy, is it possible to have a branch that has branches underneath it? | 14:42 |
| mgz | well, I'm just hanging around eating stollen, so can help out | 14:43 |
| Movix | thx, i appreciate a lot | 14:43 |
| mgz | Movix is the one with the cms/php complicated setup thing? | 14:43 |
| Movix | oh ! seems so ! | 14:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | well it seems that it would just be solevd with a branch with branches underneath | 14:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | and i see bzr has "split" which does that | 14:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | but...then it wants to version the newly created branch | 14:44 |
| mgz | what he's directly asking for is nested trees I think, which... is not fully implemented and still rather complicated | 14:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | yeah. | 14:44 |
| AuroraBorealis | it wants to version the repo files and stuff and that doesn't seem right | 14:44 |
| mgz | what he really wants is probably just a less complex way of working | 14:44 |
| Movix | ok, that reconciles me with bazaar, because i allready thought i'm to stupid for this stuff | 14:45 |
| AuroraBorealis | i feel you would have this problem with any vcs honestly | 14:45 |
| mgz | right. | 14:46 |
| Movix | yes, i was afraid about it but came to this conclusion also | 14:46 |
| AuroraBorealis | you could also use symlinks | 14:46 |
| AuroraBorealis | but again there is windows, and the bug which i need to try and see if i can fix >.> | 14:46 |
| mgz | subversion has reasonable support for integrating different related branches, but it's still fiddly to work on | 14:47 |
| mgz | I think really, what you want is: | 14:47 |
| mgz | * A pristine upstream branch of the cms | 14:47 |
| mgz | * A branch from that, with your changes and modules | 14:47 |
| Movix | at this point i have my first issue | 14:48 |
| mgz | * A number of "known good" or release branches, which you don't work on directly | 14:48 |
| mgz | then merge selectively downwards | 14:48 |
| Movix | i do not want to have the cms files mixed up with the module files, or i need to have a simple way to extract only the module related files in order to make a module only release | 14:49 |
| mgz | bzr export subdir works | 14:49 |
| mgz | as does bzr merge, and selective revert | 14:50 |
| mgz | eg | 14:50 |
| mgz | you have branches Upstream, Development, and CurrentRelease | 14:50 |
| Movix | i did not understood the selective reverts Martin allready suggested to me on launchpad | 14:51 |
| Movix | yes i allready tested taht structure | 14:51 |
| Movix | and it indeed comme the closest to what i expect | 14:51 |
| mgz | if you want to update one module in CurrentRelease to what you have in Development, but won't want any of the other changes | 14:51 |
| Movix | let me please say this in my own words to make sure i unterstood it well | 14:52 |
| Movix | what do you mean by "any of the other changes" ? | 14:53 |
| mgz | okay, give an example | 14:53 |
| mgz | well, I'm imagining you just do all your own changes in Development currently | 14:53 |
| mgz | so, you've updates module/x but also changed various other things in templates and maybe updated to the latest upstream version | 14:54 |
| mgz | if you know which changes you want to land on an existing release in advance, you work on those in a seperate branch | 14:55 |
| mgz | but even if you don't, you can merge or cherrypick merge just the changes to module/x without including all the others | 14:56 |
| mgz | so, you don't need a seperate version control branch for each module and template | 14:56 |
| mgz | which makes life complicated, as you then need to track everything seperately, but also record which versions of each branch work with which versions of other branches | 14:57 |
| Movix | that's the point | 14:57 |
| mgz | generally it's sufficient to just commit independant changes as seperate commits, and keep branches in a known-working state | 14:58 |
| Movix | so i finaly made my life easier on one hand but complicated it on another | 14:58 |
| mgz | people seldom care in practice about full dependency tracking for each tiddly component of a project, they just want a few known correct states | 14:58 |
| Movix | i'm happy to see that most of my conclusions were not so weird | 14:59 |
| mgz | so, you have a 'stable' or similar branch you want to keep existing versions, but perhaps selectively update certain things | 14:59 |
| Movix | correct | 14:59 |
| mgz | that you can do by just branching from an older revision, and cherrypicking or daggy fixing certain modules | 14:59 |
| Movix | have to give a look at cherrypicking, i did not looked at it for now :( | 15:00 |
| mgz | or, say, you want all your modules unchanged, but need to update the base cms to the latest minor version with security fixes | 15:00 |
| mgz | all you need in that case, is your pristine upstream branch of the cms | 15:00 |
| mgz | update and commit the new version, then `bzr merge -d StableRelease Upstream; bzr commit -m'Update to X.X.1'` or similar | 15:02 |
| mgz | if upstream has multiple branches going at once, it still works, you just keep a branch for each series | 15:02 |
| mgz | some of this is easier to do with pictures :) | 15:02 |
| mgz | so, with merging backwards to stable like this, there are three basic options: | 15:03 |
| mgz | * Merge the newer branch, revert every change you don't want, and commit | 15:04 |
| mgz | * Cherrypick merge just the revision with the change (this is similar to just commiting the applied patch) | 15:04 |
| mgz | * Do the fix on branch at a revision before stable diverged, then merge into both development and stable branches | 15:06 |
| mgz | AuroraBorealis: so, is your gfx card fixed now? what's our next step? | 15:08 |
| AuroraBorealis | well | 15:08 |
| AuroraBorealis | its fixed now | 15:08 |
| AuroraBorealis | but i think my disk might be screwed up cause i seem to be creating a lot of undeletable files | 15:09 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| AuroraBorealis | so i'm going to try and fix this before anything else | 15:10 |
| AuroraBorealis | HOWEVER | 15:10 |
| * mgz fears hardwar :) | 15:10 | |
| mgz | +e | 15:10 |
| mgz | but I guess hard war too. | 15:10 |
| AuroraBorealis | are colocated branches fully supported yet? | 15:10 |
| mgz | yes, they need some ui work still, but go ahead and poke them/file bugs | 15:11 |
| AuroraBorealis | because i'm not exactly sure how to create another branch inside of one | 15:12 |
| mgz | that's... nested trees, not colocated branches? | 15:13 |
| AuroraBorealis | i created a 'colocated branch' in bzr explorer | 15:13 |
| AuroraBorealis | and the branches are stored in .bzr/branches | 15:13 |
| mgz | colo is just about having one directory represent more than one branch | 15:13 |
| Movix | that seems interesting to me | 15:13 |
| AuroraBorealis | yeah, so shouldn't it be possible to have more then one branch in the same directory? | 15:14 |
| Movix | for my needs^^ | 15:14 |
| AuroraBorealis | cause i thought thats how git does it | 15:14 |
| mgz | in your case Movix, you're more likely to get deeply confused by colocation than find it useful I think | 15:14 |
| AuroraBorealis | and then you use switch to switch between branches | 15:15 |
| mgz | you need to keep in your head that you're only working on the development tree, and merging changes around | 15:15 |
| Movix | may i post here what i understood from your suggestions to verify i understood it ? | 15:15 |
| mgz | right, so, that all works AuroraBorealis, what aren't you succeeding tat? | 15:15 |
| mgz | Movix: go for it | 15:16 |
| AuroraBorealis | well creating a branch in a colocated branch | 15:16 |
| AuroraBorealis | creates it in the wrong place it seems like | 15:16 |
| mgz | `bzr switch -b newbranch` is all you need for a new branch in the same dir with a colo format | 15:16 |
| mgz | it's in .bzr/branches under the hood, but you can address it with the funny comma syntax | 15:17 |
| AuroraBorealis | yeah | 15:17 |
| AuroraBorealis | that doesn't seem very..intitutive | 15:17 |
| AuroraBorealis | i was trying to do "bzr branch . somenamehere" | 15:17 |
| mgz | okay, so, file bugs/post to the mailing list about the bits you find confusing | 15:18 |
| AuroraBorealis | and the fact that to create another branch you have to use switch xD | 15:18 |
| mgz | you can do it with the branch command, but... the addressing is ugly | 15:19 |
| mgz | need something like `bzr branch . file:,branch=newbranch` | 15:19 |
| AuroraBorealis | hm =/ | 15:20 |
| mgz | the problem with what you tried is it works as a command meaning something else | 15:20 |
| AuroraBorealis | yeah | 15:20 |
| AuroraBorealis | it created a new branch | 15:20 |
| AuroraBorealis | but it didnt do it in the way that colocated branches expected it | 15:20 |
| mgz | I use exactly that with python and mercurial, branch from the (treeless) current dir into a new subdir (and create a tree) | 15:21 |
| mgz | if that's a common issue, trapping it as a mistake and warning or something may be useful | 15:21 |
| AuroraBorealis | as in you branch inside the .bzr/branches folder | 15:21 |
| AuroraBorealis | directly? | 15:21 |
| mgz | no | 15:22 |
| Movix | to build my structure i do this | 15:22 |
| Movix | bzr init bzr/cms | 15:22 |
| Movix | bzr commit bzr/cms -m "Project init" --unchanged | 15:22 |
| Movix | bzr branch bzr/cms /bzr/upstream | 15:22 |
| Movix | bzr branch bzr/cms /bzr/dev | 15:22 |
| Movix | bzr branch bzr/cms /bzr/currentRelease | 15:22 |
| Movix | i copy my downloaded cms files into /bzr/upstream, do add and comit -m "cms version xy" | 15:22 |
| Movix | now i have to push this to my paent branch bzr push /bzr/upstream /bzr/cms | 15:22 |
| Movix | and can get his update in my dev branch bzr pull /bzr/cms /bzr/dev | 15:22 |
| Movix | now i add my module files or do some work that once finished is comited bzr commit /bzr/dev -m "Mymod init" | 15:22 |
| Movix | If i'm still wrong on these first steps i appologyse to have wasted your precious time | 15:22 |
| mgz | Movix: roughly seems fine, some comments in a sec | 15:23 |
| mgz | AuroraBorealis: no, it's something of a quirk with the python/hg setup, they have different development series bundled into one, so to get a tree for each version, I branch the whole lot into python/ without trees, then do (the hg version) branching python/ into python/2.7 to get just that branch with a tree | 15:25 |
| AuroraBorealis | ah | 15:25 |
| AuroraBorealis | interesting | 15:26 |
| mgz | in bzr, there's really no good reason to create a new branch from the current directory to a subdir | 15:26 |
| AuroraBorealis | yeah | 15:26 |
| mgz | because we have shared repos | 15:26 |
| AuroraBorealis | well i was just trying to see how you create another branch in a colocated dir | 15:26 |
| mgz | yup. | 15:26 |
| AuroraBorealis | i'll file a bug report on saying thats hard | 15:26 |
| mgz | so, the right answer is switch -b, it's just not very obvious | 15:26 |
| AuroraBorealis | also: where should i file documentation bugs? | 15:26 |
| AuroraBorealis | yeah, i feel branch should be smart and do it correctly if its in a colocated branch | 15:27 |
| mgz | against bzr generally. perhaps posting a selection of impressions to the list would be most useful | 15:27 |
| AuroraBorealis | well i just notice that 'bzr new' is not on the online documentation at all | 15:27 |
| AuroraBorealis | and then doing bzr new --help says "usage: bzr init-workspace [LOCATION] " | 15:27 |
| AuroraBorealis | so that is wrong as well | 15:28 |
| mgz | ...seems to be from bzr-explorer? | 15:28 |
| AuroraBorealis | oh. | 15:28 |
| AuroraBorealis | it even says that. | 15:28 |
| AuroraBorealis | at the bottom. | 15:28 |
| AuroraBorealis | well, i'll file that against explorer | 15:28 |
| mgz | Movix: so, you don't need to do that empty commit at the start, and want to branch from upstream to dev, and from dev to currentRelease | 15:29 |
| mgz | I'd suggest... unpack upstream release to bzr/upstream then bzr init and bzr commit there | 15:30 |
| Movix | ok | 15:30 |
| mgz | then branch that to bzr/dev then branch bzr/dev to bzr/currentRelease | 15:31 |
| mgz | now copy across your working development file into bzr/dev and do `bzr st` | 15:31 |
| mgz | check it looks sort of right, add anything you need to, commit | 15:32 |
| mgz | you may want to look at `bzr ignore` before that, all three branches will want it probably | 15:32 |
| mgz | (it's less important for upstream, as you may not need to build/test that locally) | 15:33 |
| mgz | anyway, after that you can try merging those dev changes to currentRelease and reverting some of them | 15:34 |
| mgz | remember you can always chuck some branches away, create new ones, branch from old revisions, and such like | 15:35 |
| mgz | so should experiment as much as possible | 15:35 |
| AuroraBorealis | thanks for the help, i'll try and fix my windows problems and get back to working on the memory stuff | 15:36 |
| AuroraBorealis | but now, bed~ | 15:36 |
| Movix | thanks so far for your help, i go back testing | 15:53 |
| mgz | feel free to keep bugging me | 15:54 |
| Movix | (16:27:56) mgz: you may want to look at `bzr ignore` before that, all three branches will want it probably | 16:01 |
| Movix | you meen i'll ignore the files issued from the CMS sources (or part of these) ? This does not work because there are issued and commited in the parent of bzr/dev | 16:01 |
| mgz | no, I mean ignore anything you don't want versioned | 16:04 |
| Movix | ok, i continue testing | 16:05 |
| mgz | like stuff automatically created when running in place or whatever | 16:05 |
| Movix | ok, understood this | 16:05 |
| mgz | will just be nipping out with hound, should be back shortly | 16:06 |
| Movix | mgz: Back again ? | 16:18 |
| Movix | mgz: are you here ? | 16:42 |
| mgz | Movix: back (briefly) | 17:05 |
| Movix | yeah, i just want to say that i got a quite good result now | 17:06 |
| Movix | the cherrypick is the way | 17:06 |
| Movix | using the suggeested structure | 17:06 |
| Movix | but when releasing a module branch /bzr/dev /brz/modulerelease.xy i have to cherrypick all changes to the branch that do not concern the module. that needs to relosve a lot of conflict on that path but finally i have a clean module release folder | 17:08 |
| Movix | i guess i have to keep the message in the explorer when within bzr/dev that tells me not all changes are merged to the parent and never murge them. tu update to a new upstream release release, i delete contents of bzr/upstream and populate that folder with the new downloaded files and commit this. after that i grab it within the dev folder with a pull merge command. | 17:10 |
| Movix | anyway, thank you a lot for your effort in understanding my bad english and the time you spent for my concerns | 17:10 |
| mgz | I don't quite follow that, but you don't really want pull from dev to release | 17:22 |
| mgz | you just want merge, either -r31..32 for one specific change, or all changes then reverting and subdirs you don't need, which remembers not to try and bring in those changes again | 17:23 |
| === GRiD_ is now known as GRiD | ||
| === verterok` is now known as verterok | ||
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