[03:37] <khm> Debate between Christianity and Islam :(Is the Bible God's Word?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlA22NNFlDw - E-mail:M4.Guest@Gmail.com
[05:11] <bkerensa> =/
[05:27] <elky> seems to have done it to all the channels
[19:03] <broder> so...no dmb meeting then?
[19:04] <cody-somerville> One moment.
[19:05] <cody-somerville> bdrung, Laney, micahg, tumbleweed: ping
[19:06] <bdrung> pong
[19:06]  * micahg is here
[19:06] <tumbleweed> o/
[19:06] <Laney> hai
[19:06] <Laney> (somewhat)
[19:06] <cody-somerville> Perfect. Looks like we have quorum.
[19:06] <cody-somerville> #startmeeting
[19:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  2 19:06:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[19:06] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:07] <cody-somerville> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:07] <cody-somerville> #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
[19:08] <cody-somerville> I have a draft prepared and will be sending it to DMB mailing list today.
[19:08] <cody-somerville> #topic stgraber to create desktop-extra set
[19:08] <cody-somerville> stgraber is absent, will carry action item
[19:09] <cody-somerville> #topic bdrung to talk to the TB about harmonising DMB members' expiration dates for easier restaffing
[19:09] <cody-somerville> bdrung, you have the floor :)
[19:10] <bdrung> sorry, i haven't asked the TB yet
[19:11] <cody-somerville> Acked. Action carried.
[19:12] <cody-somerville> #topic MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
[19:12] <cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/MOTUApplication
[19:12] <cody-somerville> udienz, Hello. Could you please indicate you're present by introducing yourself and your application?
[19:12] <udienz> Sure
[19:13] <udienz> My name is Mahyuddin Susanto, i'm 26 Indonesian.
[19:13] <udienz> I have been contributing to universe for almost a year, i started contributing to Ubuntu when binutils-gold transitions.
[19:13] <udienz> I'm doing sync, merge, SRU in Ubuntu, perhaps over 100 packages have been uploaded.
[19:13] <udienz> In Debian, i stated at least 2 years but for packaging i have been started for a year. I'm Debian Maintainer and my QA page is http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=udienz@ubuntu.com&comaint=yes. I have migrating proftpd/cacti/pdnsd from cdbs (pdnsd), dpatch (proftpd/cacti) to quilt. I'm not always use quilt but quilt is my best chioce for patching system.
[19:14] <udienz> I'm also packaging from strach in Ubuntu, named gkamus and aspell-id. All my packages in Debian (with co-maintained) easily sync from Debian.
[19:14] <udienz> .enough
[19:15] <Laney> why did you choose to package those things directly in Ubuntu?
[19:16] <udienz> Laney, it just technical problem. I've already RFS-ing both packages but i'm not got sponsorship in debian
[19:19] <Laney> ok
[19:19] <Laney> (stupid connection keeps hanging)
[19:20] <micahg> udienz: are you aware of the various freezes and what is appropriate to be uploaded during those times?
[19:21] <udienz> micahg, yes i aware, during FF i cannot import packages except those packages fixing bugs or really important
[19:22] <cody-somerville> udienz, How do you determine if its really important or not?
[19:22] <Laney> and who can you ask if unsure?
[19:22] <udienz> cody-somerville, depend on bug importance, effecting many users, security bug, ftbfs
[19:23] <udienz> Laney, if im unsure i'll ask in #ubuntu-motu first
[19:23] <udienz> or #ubuntu-devel
[19:24] <micahg> udienz: so, after feature freeze if a lot of users were requesting a new version of a program with new features, you'd upload it?
[19:25] <udienz> micahg, i;m not really sure, but if new upstream version fixing many important bug, i'll ask to other dev first rather than direct upload
[19:26] <udienz> *i'm not sure
[19:26] <tumbleweed> udienz: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[19:27] <cody-somerville> udienz, What role does the release team play and how can they help you?
[19:27] <udienz> tumbleweed, yes, also #ubuntu-discuss, #ubuntu-motu
[19:27] <bdrung> udienz: he meant the mailing list, not irc channel
[19:28] <udienz> cody-somerville, during FF release team will five input wether package accepted or not
[19:28] <udienz> bdrung, sorry i mean list
[19:29] <udienz> s/ubuntu-discuss/devel-discuss
[19:30] <micahg> udienz: are you referring to Feature Freeze or Final Freeze when you say FF
[19:31] <cody-somerville> udienz, With your recent merge of laptop-mode-tools, could you explain why you decided to do a merge instead of a sync (maybe after trying to push the change upstream?): https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laptop-mode-tools/1.60-1ubuntu1
[19:32] <udienz> micahg, Feature Freeze in first and Final Freeze while i answered cody-somerville. Sorry a little panic at here
[19:32] <cody-somerville> udienz, No need to panic. :)
[19:33] <udienz> cody-somerville, i forget about last change :(
[19:34] <cody-somerville> udienz, No problem. Good example of why its not a bad idea to note such reasons in the changelog - to make it easier to remember.
[19:35] <cody-somerville> Do any other members have questions before we proceed to vote?
[19:35] <tumbleweed> one quick one
[19:36] <tumbleweed> jdstrand's concerns were mostly about minor details such as checking the changelog and upload destination
[19:36] <tumbleweed> which file is a good one to quickly skim over before uploading?
[19:37] <udienz> tumbleweed, sorry. what is skim?
[19:38] <tumbleweed> to read quickly, to check for mistakes
[19:39] <udienz> tumbleweed, i think patch files and changelog (by read at debdiff)
[19:39] <tumbleweed> yes, that's a good idea, when it's short enough to be readable
[19:39] <tumbleweed> I also suggest looking at the .changes file, I sometimes notice that I forgot to close bugs, when I look at that
[19:40] <micahg> right, it lists as one of the lines in the .changes file all the bugs closed by the upload
[19:40] <micahg> udienz: have you ever file for a freeze exception and when do you think it's appropriate to do so?
[19:41] <micahg> *filed
[19:42] <udienz> micahg, i'm not remember but i haven't filed freeze exceptions. I think when the changes solved important bug. Like my statement before
[19:43] <micahg> udienz: have you read the documentation regarding freeze exceptions?
[19:44] <udienz> yes
[19:47] <cody-somerville> #vote MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
[19:47] <meetingology> Please vote on: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
[19:47] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:49] <cody-somerville> bdrung is afk at the moment but has voted +1
[19:49] <tumbleweed> +1 [ and please ask the release team if you need any guidance during freezes ]
[19:49] <meetingology> +1 [ and please ask the release team if you need any guidance during freezes ] received from tumbleweed
[19:49] <cody-somerville> +1
[19:49] <meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
[19:50] <Laney> +1
[19:50] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[19:51] <micahg> +0 good work overall, but I'm a little concerned over freezes still (part of the difference between uploading to Ubuntu rather than Debian is knowing what's appropriate when as it comes up a lot more often)
[19:51] <meetingology> +0 good work overall, but I'm a little concerned over freezes still (part of the difference between uploading to Ubuntu rather than Debian is knowing what's appropriate when as it comes up a lot more often) received from micahg
[19:52] <cody-somerville> #endvote
[19:52] <meetingology> Voting ended on: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto
[19:52] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[19:52] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:53] <cody-somerville> udienz, Congratulations. Welcome to MOTU.
[19:53] <udienz> Thanks cody-somerville, micahg, tumbleweed, Laney and bdrung!
[19:53] <Laney> congrats!
[19:54] <cody-somerville> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
[19:54] <broder> o/
[19:54] <cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EvanBroder/CoreDevApplication
[19:54] <cody-somerville> broder, Please introduce yourself and your application.
[19:54] <broder> Hi folks. I'm Evan, and I'm applying for core dev. I've been contributing to Ubuntu since late 2008, and I've been a member of MOTU since late 2009
[19:54] <broder> I work a lot on backports and SRUs. I try to help with sponsorship as much as I can
[19:55] <broder> Past that it's a lot of pretty random stuff
[19:55] <broder> I started at a SF Bay Area startup about a year and a half ago, where I'm basically working on an Ubuntu derivative, which means that I get to spend even more time working on Ubuntu now
[19:56] <broder> I also setup http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/ and have been working to improve it to make it more useful to Ubuntu
[19:56] <broder> .
[19:57] <cody-somerville> broder, Where do you see yourself in three years?
[20:00] <broder> Hmm, I'm not really sure. In terms of Ubuntu, I really value being a part of the developer community, and I don't think that's likely to change. I definitely feel like my involvement in the community is increasing over time, and I think it's possible that I'll hit the high point of that soon, but I don't expect to completely vanish
[20:02] <cody-somerville> broder, What do you feel is the most important quality of a strong leader?
[20:06] <broder> I think that leadership is about solving problems, whether those are at a technical level, or personal level, or whatever, so the most important thing is to be able to understand problems, and to be able to dig below the surface of problems
[20:10] <tumbleweed> I'm a bit afraid to poke your "what I like least about ubuntu" statements, as those are things we spend hours discussing over beer at every UDS
[20:12] <broder> I'll admit there that my thoughts in the area aren't quite as fully-baked as I'd like, but I still feel pretty strongly about the overall concept
[20:12] <tumbleweed> I think you may be right about putting more emphesis on the upstream and less on the gardening, but when we are all gardeners, that's hard
[20:12] <tumbleweed> I suppose I should do something about that "put project cleansweep jobs into the sponsorship queue" task...
[20:13] <broder> I'm not actually convinced that we're all gardeners, even if we're all garden*ing*. If you look at the people who are top contributors to the project, they're all very skilled developers and debuggers, too
[20:13] <tumbleweed> I guess so, and we aren't here for the gardening
[20:14] <broder> I do think there's an important side-point that we should be thinking as hard as we can on ways to automate or eliminate gardening
[20:15] <cody-somerville> broder, Where do you think time can be found to do upstream patch review?
[20:15] <micahg> well, I don't think it's something we can eliminate, but automation can certainly help
[20:17] <broder> cody-somerville: We've talked about incorporating operation cleansweep into the responsibilities of patch piloting. I think that's the obvious place to at least start
[20:18] <micahg> well, it's already part of patch piloting when people exhaust opportunities in the sponsorship queue
[20:18] <cody-somerville> Any additional questions?
[20:19] <broder> micahg: It's nominally part of patch piloting, but I don't think that's actually happened in practice. I think getting some items from cleansweep onto the sponsor queue is a prerequisite for that
[20:19] <micahg> broder: I've seen people reporting on it in their pilot reports to ubuntu-devel@l.u.c
[20:20] <bdrung> broder: you talked about automation. do you see any places where we could add automation?
[20:22] <broder> bdrung: Well, I guess one example could be the multiarch stuff. Based on my experiences multiarching the gtkmm stack, I think an initial attempt at multiarch-ification could be done by a script if it had enough awareness of common types of packaging, etc.
[20:22] <broder> Obviously the output would need to be sanity checked
[20:23] <micahg> if we could only get upstreams to stop hardcoding paths
[20:24] <cody-somerville> #vote Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
[20:24] <meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
[20:24] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:24] <cody-somerville> +1
[20:24] <meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
[20:24] <tumbleweed> +1
[20:24] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[20:25] <micahg> +1 good packaging work, good project leadership
[20:25] <meetingology> +1 good packaging work, good project leadership received from micahg
[20:25] <bdrung> +1
[20:25] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[20:25] <cody-somerville> Laney provides +1
[20:25] <micahg> stgraber did as well IIRC
[20:25] <cody-somerville> stgraber provides +1
[20:25] <cody-somerville> #endvote
[20:25] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder
[20:25] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:25] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:26] <micahg> broder: congrats
[20:26] <broder> Thanks everybody :-D
[20:26] <cody-somerville> broder, Congratulations. Welcome to Core Dev.
[20:26] <cody-somerville> broder, If you have any questions about your new responsibilities, please don't hesitate to get in contact with the DMB or a fellow core developer.
[20:26]  * broder nods
[20:26] <cody-somerville> Anyhow, that, I believe, concludes today's meeting.
[20:26] <bdrung> broder: congrats
[20:27] <micahg> cody-somerville: oh, laney also gave a +1 for broder :)
[20:28] <micahg> ah, you included that
[20:28]  * micahg needs caffeine
[20:28] <cody-somerville> #endmeeting
[20:28] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  2 20:28:12 2012 UTC.
[20:28] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-02-19.06.moin.txt
[20:28] <cody-somerville> Thank you folks! Look for meeting minutes and changes in launchpad later today.
[20:28] <udienz> broder: Congrats!
[20:28] <broder> udienz: thanks, same to you
[22:09] <stgraber> cody-somerville: I created the package set during our last meeting and then updated it based on jbicha's e-mail (that I Cced to the mailing-list), so I guess we can drop that action ;)