[01:33] <jono_> hey
[05:00] <jono> hey all
[05:00] <jono> sorry the constant rejoins
[05:00] <jono> been setting up my machine
[05:02] <mhall119> jono: welcome back
[05:03] <jono> thanks mhall119
[05:03] <jono> do you start on the team tomorrow or next week?
[05:03] <mhall119> tomorrow
[05:04] <mhall119> should probably get some sleep ahead of then
[05:07] <jono> mhall119, awesome, I thought it was tomorrow
[05:07] <jono> lets get on a call when I am online
[05:07] <mhall119> ok
[05:10] <mhall119> jono: I'm off to sleep, excited about starting tomorrow
[05:10] <mhall119> talk to you then
[05:10] <jono> mhall119, sounds great, let the fun begin! :-)
[06:58] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:06] <dpm> good mornind everyone
[08:06] <czajkowski> dpm: welcome back
[08:07] <dpm> hey czajkowski, happy new year :)
[08:07] <czajkowski> dpm: the same to you, hope you had a great christmas
[08:08] <dpm> yeah, had a good one except for the first 3 days when I was ill. But the rest was great :)
[08:08] <dpm> how was yours?
[08:13] <czajkowski> it was good thanks, just recovering from a cold now
[08:14] <dpm> ouch
[08:15] <dpm> feliz año ara :)
[08:15] <ara> hey! feliz año dpm, all :)
[12:13] <duanedesign> 'lo all
[12:42] <mhall119> morning
[13:42] <mhall119> ok, google+'s "view ripples" is kind of cool
[13:50] <cjohnston> mornin
[14:15] <mhall119> balloons: dpm: good morning
[14:15] <mhall119> cjohnston: good morning
[14:15] <dpm> hey morning mhall119
[14:16] <dpm> and everyone else for whom it's morning :)
[14:38] <jcastro> hey mhall119
[14:38] <jcastro> do you start today?
[14:38] <mhall119> yes i do
[14:38] <jcastro> man dude
[14:39] <jcastro> singlet
[14:39] <jcastro> that is exactly what we needed
[14:39] <mhall119> no Manual entry for dude
[14:39] <jcastro> I knew you were the man for the job!
[14:39] <mhall119> jcastro: yeah, davidcalle has started testing it for me
[14:39] <jcastro> everything about this is awesome
[14:41] <cjohnston> jcastro: do you have fixes to any of: https://bugs.launchpad.net/uds-project
[14:42] <jcastro> I didn't even know that was a page
[14:42] <cjohnston> its kinda new
[14:43] <jcastro> ok so two things here
[14:43] <jcastro> 1) mhall is the new UDS guy, I'm not, (woo!)
[14:43] <jcastro> and 2) We have a community web team added to uds.ubuntu.com
[14:43] <jcastro> you should be able to see an edit link on each page?
[14:43] <cjohnston> 1) mhall119 doesn't know the date sponsorship closes
[14:44] <cjohnston> 2) same with sponsorship prospectus
[14:44] <jcastro> ah
[14:44] <cjohnston> pretty much all of them
[14:44] <jcastro> we need to ask bacon
[14:44] <cjohnston> so you *may* know that stuff.. so i asked you ;-)
[14:44] <jcastro> it's fine to ask!
[14:45] <cjohnston> mhall119:  has made it 1.75 hours into his new job "don't ask me ask mhall119!" lol
[14:45] <mhall119> lol
[14:45] <jcastro> heh
[14:45]  * mhall119 defaults to "consult the bacon!"
[14:45] <cjohnston> we werent sure if any of this stuff was communicated around without his involvement
[14:46] <jcastro> well, he basically picks those 2 dates himself
[14:46] <jcastro> I like the idea of putting it in bug reports though instead
[14:46] <cjohnston> gotcha
[14:46] <jcastro> just CC him on the bugs
[14:46] <jcastro> and ask him for the dates
[14:46] <jcastro> that way we have a nice workflow
[14:47] <jcastro> I mean, you're going to have to mail him anyway
[14:47] <cjohnston> ya
[14:47] <cjohnston> thats fine
[14:47] <jcastro> might as well do it via a bug like the rest of the distro works
[14:47] <mhall119> jcastro: uds-project is for content on uds.ubuntu.com or summit.ubuntu.com, so that summit project is strictly for the code
[14:47] <jcastro> that works for me!
[14:48]  * cjohnston reads between the lines.. "that works for me because UDS isn't mine!"
[14:48] <cjohnston> ;-)
[14:48] <mhall119> in that case, it works for me!
[14:48] <cjohnston> lol
[14:48] <jcastro> well, one of the nice things about moving a project around is setting the next person up correctly
[14:49] <jcastro> instead of "well at some point jono picks 2 dates and then lets us know."
[14:49]  * mhall119 feels setup
[14:49] <jcastro> how it should be is "Oh it's T minus 15 weeks, these 4 things needs to happen."
[14:49] <jcastro> (this is why I put everything in trello)
[14:51] <mhall119> jcastro: speaking of trello, am I added to your boards?
[14:51] <jcastro> I can check now
[14:52] <jcastro> since I am doing my "getting crushed by email" dance and making todo's out of them
[14:52] <jcastro> I'll just add you to all the ubuntu org ones
[14:52] <mhall119> speaking of todo's, did you see Allison's Tody project?
[14:54] <cjohnston> im still trying to find a todo that fits into the way i work
[14:54] <jcastro> I've tried them all
[14:55] <mhall119> cjohnston: did you see tody?  It's nice and simple
[14:55] <mhall119> I think it has good potential
[14:55] <czajkowski> I use tomboy notes
[14:55] <czajkowski> make a list cross em off
[14:55] <popey> me too
[14:55] <cjohnston> I did.. but i need something on my phone too
[14:55] <czajkowski> do them month by month
[14:55] <mhall119> czajkowski: me too, which are okay but not really meant for todos
[14:55] <jcastro> mhall119: the one that's called "community team" is the one I use for my day to day stuff
[14:55] <czajkowski> mhall119: they;'re a note :) to do lists should be notes
[14:55] <mhall119> cjohnston: supposedly it's data files can sync with a phone app
[14:55] <jcastro> mhall119: basically if you want to assign me something shove a card in there and assign it to me
[14:55] <czajkowski> <--------- off to get lost in london
[14:56] <cjohnston> cause i add more than just stuff around here, so it makes sense that i have access on the phone
[14:56] <jcastro> So far out of all the note things I've used I hate trello the least
[14:56] <jcastro> mostly because it's easy to team share
[14:56] <cjohnston> I do like that jcastro, I want an android app for it tho
[14:57] <jcastro> yeah
[14:57] <jcastro> I just use the browser on the tablet as my "status screen" off to the side.
[14:57]  * cjohnston goes to make a card for jcastro to buy cjohnston a tablet
[14:57] <jcastro> in hindsight it wasn't a good purchase
[14:57] <jcastro> even at 299 or whatever I got it for
[14:58] <cjohnston> the one yo got or a tablem?
[14:58] <cjohnston> tablet
[14:58] <jcastro> the tablet
[14:58] <jcastro> I got an asus transformer
[14:58] <jcastro> (not the new prime)
[15:00] <mhall119> czajkowski: have fun
[15:00] <jcastro> cjohnston: since I happen to be looking at the trello
[15:00] <jcastro> what's the TLDR on the summit sprint?
[15:00] <cjohnston> there isnt one
[15:01] <mhall119> jcastro: with jono's approval, I'm going to get together with cjohnston one or two days next week for a mini-sprint
[15:01] <jcastro> ok
[15:01] <jcastro> so I can consider my todo on that one to be finished then?
[15:01] <cjohnston> we still need a full sprint tho to make the changes that are outlined in that bp
[15:02] <cjohnston> the minisprint will be strictly what linaro wants for lcq1.12
[15:02] <mhall119> yeah, the mini-sprint is just to get it ready for linaro
[15:02] <mhall119> ^^ what he said
[15:02] <jcastro> cjohnston: I went seatrekking
[15:02] <jcastro> over break
[15:03] <jcastro> it's like that helmet and you walk on the bottom of the ocean
[15:03] <mhall119> fun
[15:03] <cjohnston> i saw
[15:03] <cjohnston> how was it
[15:03] <jcastro> I wish I was closer to you guys, I would so learn to dive
[15:03] <jcastro> it was ok, just makes you want to learn to dive for real
[15:03]  * mhall119 doesn't know how to dive
[15:03] <jcastro> snuba was full, that's originally what I wanted to do
[15:03] <cjohnston> if you get certified, ill drive down there
[15:03] <cjohnston> thats where all the good diving is
[15:05] <mhall119> jcastro: who's running UDW?
[15:08] <jcastro> usually daniel
[15:09] <mhall119> ok
[15:17] <cprofitt> I got stung by a Jelly Fish on the second day of my dive lessons
[15:17] <cprofitt> that ended the dive lessons... my Uncle did not want anything bad to happen while I was in his care
[15:18] <AlanBell> mhall119: jcastro: see my mad idea about leaving etherpad chat turned on for summit integration? http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:9001/p/udspad
[15:21] <jcastro> ooh, I like that login integration
[15:21] <jcastro> I can't find the chat
[15:22] <mhall119> jcastro: bottomr right?
[15:26] <daker> hey guys, what will you choose btw Xubuntu & Lubuntu ?
[15:27] <popey> Neither. Unity ☺

[15:28] <mhall119> daker: what's the use case?
[15:29] <daker> personal use
[15:31] <mhall119> daker: Lubuntu uses less resources, Xubuntu has better integration and polish
[15:31] <mhall119> so depending on which attribute is more important to you
[15:31] <daker> i want less resources
[15:33] <mhall119> then use Lubuntu
[15:39] <mhall119> cjohnston: http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:9001/p/udspad
[15:48] <mhall119> AlanBell: you rock
[15:49] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha everyone
[16:06] <jono> mhall119, welcome! :-)
[16:07] <cjohnston> jono: http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:9001/p/udspad
[16:08] <cjohnston> please join
[16:09] <mhall119> thanks jono
[16:09] <jono> cjohnston, I am in
[16:10] <jono> cjohnston, what is this?
[16:11] <cjohnston> jono: AlanBell's proposal to use for uds instead of using irc
[16:11] <AlanBell> jono: so the background to this is I was doing a bit of work to etherpad lite as part of a planned upgrade to pad.ubuntu.com
[16:11] <AlanBell> I was about to rip out the chat facility because we use IRC, but had the crazy thought that maybe we could actually use it
[16:11] <AlanBell> we are evaluating the crazyness of that idea
[16:13] <jono> AlanBell, wow, that is cool
[16:13] <jono> thanks for working on this
[16:13]  * mhall119 thinks it's just crazy enough to work
[16:16] <AlanBell> there are pros and cons, it does have some advantages, and it does seem improveable
[16:18] <popey> I do like the idea of people having their eyes pointing in the direction of both the subject of the UDS session _and_ the chat window.
[16:26] <cjohnston> popey: the chat window isnt going to be displayed on the projector
[16:27] <mhall119> might not be, nothing is decided yet
[16:27] <mhall119> but the notification at the very least should be displayed on the projector
[16:35] <mhall119> jcastro: you broke trello!
[16:37] <jcastro> mhall119: looks like someone has a case of the mondays
[16:37] <jcastro> popey: yeah I agree, I like the chat always visible
[16:37] <jcastro> chat column on the right, bottom pane with the next set of sessions, all in one window
[16:38] <jcastro> that frees up an entire projector for other things, instead of chat on one, notes on the other.
[16:38] <popey> well initially I was suggesting the irc projector should just point next to the other one
[16:39] <popey> because people have a tendancy to look at the non-irc projector
[16:40] <mhall119> personally I never used the projector to read IRC, it wasn't comfortable
[16:40] <mhall119> it was more to tell me that someone *was* talking, so I know to check my laptop
[16:41] <mhall119> so for me, just having the popup notifications will serve the same purpose
[16:42] <popey> quite a number of people don't bring laptops into sessions
[16:43] <jcastro> jono: I can go anytime today btw.
[16:43] <jono> thanks jcastro
[16:43] <jono> will do it in a bit
[16:45] <mhall119> popey: how many of them were keeping up with IRC on the projector?
[16:46] <popey> i have no data for that
[16:46] <popey> mhall119: welcome btw
[16:46] <mhall119> popey: welcome?
[16:46] <popey> mhall119: didnt you start today?
[16:46] <mhall119> on jono's team, yeah
[16:47] <popey> \o/
[16:47] <doctormon> popey: I agree with you, I didn't tend to like reading the projector.
[16:47] <doctormon> *for irc
[16:50] <czajkowski> who knew if you wanted to start a fire it is impossible. No ligher or matches in the apt and I wanted to light candles to get rod of the smelly cheese
[16:55] <popey> \o/ smelly cheese
[16:56] <czajkowski> yuck and we have a ton of it from NYE
[16:56] <czajkowski> also manual tin openers are a pain , have had to stab 2 tins open
[16:56] <czajkowski> made yummy brown stew :)
[17:05] <czajkowski> rubbing eyes after chopping onions is not wise
[17:06] <mhall119> rubbing eyes after chopping chili pepers is even less wise
[17:06] <czajkowski> indeed
[17:12] <jcastro> <--- lunching be back in 45!
[17:16] <popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/o19jg/canonical_to_have_showing_at_ces_announcing/
[17:16] <popey> haha
[17:17] <mhall119> but nothing from OMG yet?
[17:17]  * mhall119 is disappointed
[17:29] <AlanBell> with exclusive concept designs
[17:30] <AlanBell> wonder if it will be this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unitytelly/pages/launcher.png
[17:33] <jcastro> heh
[17:34] <popey> hehe
[17:34] <popey> if it doesn't then a crime has occured
[17:44] <popey> mhall119: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/canonical-to-reveal-ubuntu-concept-design-at-ces-2012/
[17:44] <mhall119> ah, there it is, thanks popey
[17:45] <popey> wouldn't want you to miss out ☺
[17:47] <jcastro> mhall119: hey
[17:47] <jcastro> at some point this week
[17:47] <mhall119> jcastro: 'sup?
[17:47] <jcastro> we should talk about how to collect all this lens work
[17:47] <jcastro> too many spread over too many PPAs
[17:47] <mhall119> jcastro: yes, get davidcalle in too
[17:47] <jcastro> we should work as a whole to deliver as many to these in 12.04 as popular
[17:48] <jcastro> wow, nice sentence castro
[17:48] <mhall119> we definitely need some kind of focus or target
[17:48] <mhall119> heh
[17:48] <mhall119> drinking with lunch were you?
[17:48] <jcastro> ah I see
[17:48] <jcastro> he has a scopes PPA
[17:48] <jcastro> basically we need to figure out how to ppa->repo
[17:48] <mhall119> the onehundredscopes, yes
[17:49] <jcastro> heh, luckily all the cool ones are in one place.
[17:49] <mhall119> jcastro: that'll depend on whether we want to target Universe or Main
[17:49] <jcastro> I would put all the non default ones in universe
[17:50] <jcastro> it doesn't really matter to the end user where they live actually, USC shows them all
[17:50] <mhall119> true, and people writing lenses shouldn't mind apt-get installing singlet from universe
[17:54] <doctormon> Did anyone want a launchpad lens?
[17:55] <popey> that would be neat
[17:55] <doctormon> Projects and bugs, searching, not sure what else is needed.
[17:57] <jono> doctormon, hey
[17:57] <jono> I approved https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-ux-participation so it appears on my team's burndown, so I will be pestering you for work items to be completed :-)
[17:57] <jcastro> mhall119: keep this handy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#lenses
[17:58] <jcastro> mhall119: mpt is working on how to present the lenses in USC
[17:58] <doctormon> jono: that's great.
[17:58] <doctormon> Now mpt will be happy too.
[17:58] <jono> doctormon, could you please ensure that items for [ubuntu-design] and [communitycouncil] are assigned to specific people?
[18:00] <jono> doctormon, I have just removed it from approval until those items are finalized, then I will approve it
[18:00] <jono> just ping me when they are assigned
[18:00] <mhall119> doctormon: a launchpad lens would be great
[18:00] <mhall119> jcastro: cool
[18:03] <doctormon> jono: Everything's assigned, the blueprint wasn't updated; now it is.
[18:05] <jono> thanks doctormon
[18:05] <jono> doctormon, approved now
[18:05] <jono> thanks :-)
[18:05] <doctormon> Thanks jono.
[18:06] <doctormon> mhall119: The lens is basically written, but it's _slow_. Snail in swamp slow.
[18:07] <mhall119> doctormon: because oh lp?
[18:07] <doctormon> ;-)
[18:08] <mhall119> some of my LTP stuff was slow too
[18:08] <jcastro> the askubuntu lens had the same problem
[18:08] <jcastro> so they took the offline data dump
[18:08] <jcastro> and made it a package
[18:08] <jcastro> so that most of the queries stay local
[18:09] <mhall119> it helped a little when I limited what it would check until the user entered more than 3 characters in the search
[18:09] <jcastro> it's quite clever
[18:09] <doctormon> That's clever indeed.
[18:09] <jcastro> I suspect we'd need a caching best-practice thing for lenses
[18:09] <doctormon> Do you know if they used xapian for that?
[18:09] <jcastro> not just for performance, but if I'm on a plane
[18:09] <jcastro> and paying, I don't want my lens to be network busy
[18:10] <doctormon> Actually I don';t know, do lenses have a active state switch?
[18:10] <jcastro> lp:askubuntu-lens
[18:10] <jcastro> not sure if they used xapian
[18:13] <jcastro> the bummer we ran into
[18:13] <jcastro> is that google used to have an API for this
[18:13] <jcastro> that was _fast_
[18:13] <jcastro> the first version of the AU lens did this
[18:13] <jcastro> but then google switched to a pay model for app authors to use their API like that
[18:13] <jcastro> so Aq and I looked at some options
[18:13] <doctormon> How much money was it?
[18:13] <jcastro> all the major search engines charge
[18:14] <jcastro> it was like, free per key until 20k requests
[18:14] <mhall119> 20k requests per ....?
[18:14] <doctormon> And then bulk amounts? Hmm, if the experience was worth it, it would be something to tie into UbuntuOne.
[18:14] <jcastro> per API key
[18:15] <jcastro> already looked into that
[18:15] <jcastro> it got expensive REAL quick
[18:15] <mhall119> oh, so not even per key per month?
[18:15] <jcastro> aq even looked at if it was possible to do like ubuntu does with the firefox search
[18:15] <jcastro> where we can refer, maybe make some microcents
[18:15] <jcastro> but no go there
[18:16] <jcastro> Bing was also expensive
[18:16] <mhall119> I can see it not, Google Search Lens
[18:16] <jcastro> DDG didn't provide an API like that
[18:16] <doctormon> Hmm, set up our own indexer?
[18:16] <mhall119> one category for results, another category for ads
[18:17] <AlanBell> how should lenses ask for login credentials?
[18:17] <doctormon> I admit indexing the entire internet might not seem like a lot of sense. But if we want things like ubuntone, we have a limited scope.
[18:17] <mhall119> AlanBell: there isn't anything special about a lens in that regard, it'd be like any other app
[18:17] <doctormon> AlanBell: I consider my services off-line until their authenticated.
[18:17] <mhall119> AlanBell: but I did hear that the ayatana team was talking about a way to commonly handle authentication and credentials for lenses, so you might ask what them what the plan is
[18:17] <doctormon> they're
[18:18] <AlanBell> mhall119: yeah, I kind of want something common and integrated
[18:18] <doctormon> mhall119: I hope they're thinking more widely than that, there is a real need for a global desktop authentication system.
[18:19] <jcastro> doctormon: that's what they did: http://askubuntu.quickmediasolutions.com/
[18:19] <AlanBell> so the lens would in it's own window ask for username and password and have a way to hold that for the session
[18:19] <mhall119> doctormon: I agree, unfortunately after talking to Gnome devs about gnome-online-accounts, that doesn't seem like an option for it
[18:19] <jcastro> wrote their own indexer since the built in site API was kind of slow and not as good as google
[18:19] <jcastro> so the lens actually pings this and then they search the site, then apply some search algo's on the results, then return it to the lens
[18:19] <mhall119> AlanBell: it would be nicer if the lens could store credentials in ~/.config/ somewhere instead
[18:20] <jcastro> stefano's PHD is in search so he was like doing this for his research
[18:20] <doctormon> mhall119: The last thing you do is talk to gnome devs, first try wishing on a star. Global (and non-gnome) services are alien to them.
[18:20] <AlanBell> mhall119: sure, but first they have to be obtained from the user somehow
[18:20] <mhall119> doctormon: maybe, but it's "gnome-online-accounts", it sounds like it was made exactly for this
[18:20] <AlanBell> doing a popup box in front of a lens seems bad (and would probably go behind the lens)
[18:21] <doctormon> AlanBell: What kind of authentication do you need?
[18:21] <mhall119> AlanBell: yeah, you might have your lens only return a single result item that, when clicked, pulls up the auth dialog
[18:21] <jcastro> yeah so long story short, forget about taking slow web APIs and piping them through google instead.
[18:21] <AlanBell> doctormon: username and password to log into vtiger or openERP
[18:21] <doctormon> AlanBell: basic http credentials?
[18:21] <AlanBell> basic http, yes
[18:22] <mhall119> AlanBell: like, return a "Log In" result item if you don't have credentials, regardless of their search
[18:22] <doctormon> Thanks jcastro, must have been a lot of leg work to find out it was impossible.
[18:22] <jcastro> it's not impossible, just expensive
[18:22] <jcastro> it's a real reflection of the lack of competition in search I'm afraid
[18:22] <doctormon> jcastro: Same thing surely?
[18:22] <AlanBell> mhall119: that is a good ugly hack of a workaround!
[18:23] <mhall119> doctormon: depends on how rick you are ;)
[18:23] <mhall119> rich
[18:23] <jcastro> the thing is, search engines don't want applications to integrate them, they want you to use their site so you can see ads.
[18:23] <doctormon> mhall119: Things aren't expensive if you can afford them ;-)
[18:24] <mhall119> I own expensive things
[18:24] <doctormon> How very humble of you.
[18:24] <mhall119> :)
[18:24] <jcastro> it's one API per app, that means you'd have to pay for everyone
[18:24] <jcastro> if it was like "oh you get 20k requests per user and then we'll bill the user" then that would be easy
[18:25] <mhall119> jcastro: and you can't get an OAuth token or something from the user's account to use?
[18:25] <jcastro> not afaict
[18:25] <mhall119> too bad
[18:25] <jcastro> this information is 6 months old
[18:28] <jcastro> mhall119: also
[18:28] <jcastro> mhall119: might be a good idea to summarize all of david's work in one post for planet
[18:28] <jcastro> so much good stuff, but it's all on G+
[18:28] <jcastro> needs to be pushed out to the greater ubuntu community
[18:28] <jcastro> it's just too awesome
[18:29] <AlanBell> I based my openERP lens on the porn lens
[18:29] <mhall119> jono: you need one of these: http://ubuntuone.com/6qo0YoSWxnZIKmj8LnpyQv
[18:29] <AlanBell> it helped me make sure that I read every single line to ensure I had no leftover bits from the source lens
[18:30] <mhall119> lol
[18:30] <mhall119> jcastro: agreed, is he on planet?
[18:30] <AlanBell> for a while it was possible to filter customers and invoices by gender and preference
[18:30] <jcastro> mhall119: not sure
[19:08] <AlanBell> mhall119: I have the fadein/pause/fadeout effect on for the notifications now
[19:10] <mhall119> AlanBell: I like that better, thanks
[19:13] <jcastro> jono: yo yo
[19:36] <greg-g> czajkowski: I hate to bother you again about this, but "14:35 [Freenode] >>> Cannot join #ubuntu-lococouncil without an Invite"
[19:37] <mhall119> greg-g: can you /msg chanserv invite #ubuntu-lococouncil ?
[19:38] <greg-g> mhall119: oh, weird, I didn't know about that
[19:38] <greg-g> I can invite myself? that seems odd ;)
[19:38] <greg-g> czajkowski: nevermind
[19:39] <mhall119> greg-g: not everybody can invite themselves
[19:39] <mhall119> but as part of the loco-council, you should be able to invite yourself
[19:40] <greg-g> weird that I have to invite myself, oh well, added that to my autosend commands in irssi
[19:59] <czajkowski> odd also as you have the same flags as others
[20:44] <huats> czajkowski: question regarding the twinning process
[20:44] <huats> :)
[20:45] <huats> do you want me to contact direcly the team we propose tohelp ?
[20:45] <huats> oh and happy new year my dear, with lots of good things, health and munster win's (execpt vs Toulouse of course)
[20:49] <mhall119> of course
[21:01] <jono> mhall119, sorry, give me a few mins
[21:01] <jono> wrapping something
[21:01] <mhall119> jono: no problem
[21:09] <jono> mhall119, let's roll, G+ work for you?
[21:11] <mhall119> yup
[21:11] <bkerensa> :D
[21:12] <jono> mhall119, invite sent
[21:12] <jono> first team meeting with mhall119 :-)
[21:46] <bkerensa> :( How do you explain to a Librarian what FOSS and Ubuntu are? :) Somehow I can't convince this librarian I'm corresponding with that Ubuntu is free and not owned by a company
[21:46] <bkerensa> :D
[21:46] <bkerensa> Wikipedia articles dont seem to be helping :P
[21:47] <maco> bkerensa: recommend some Lawrence Lessig?
[21:47] <bkerensa> heh
[21:47] <maco> or make parallels to a coop?
[21:48] <maco> or fall back on the foss-as-hippie-commune thing :P
[21:51]  * bkerensa is just trying to get a room at a library so people in rural part of our state can have a Ubuntu meet but this guy seems to think Ubuntu is a product produced by a corporation :P
[21:51] <popey> it is
[21:51] <maco> "it's a computer club"
[21:52] <bkerensa> imho your not very good librarian if you cant do some research or click on the wikipedia articles I sent :D
[21:52] <popey> Ubuntu is lots of things, and 'a product made by a company' is certainly one of them
[21:52] <popey> along with many other definitions
[21:52] <maco> is the librarian familiar with LUGs?
[21:52] <bkerensa> maco: I don't think he happens to be familiar with anything in the realm of technology
[21:52] <bkerensa> :(
[21:52] <czajkowski> bkerensa: I prefer the explaination of it being produced by a corporation rather than a hippie
[21:53]  * maco puts a flower in czajkowski's hair
[21:53] <czajkowski> it'll fall out, hair is too thick :)
[21:53] <bkerensa> czajkowski: If it is produced by a corporation then our LoCo is not going to be able to use a Library that or we have to pony up some nice cash
[21:53] <bkerensa> sponsored by perhaps
[21:54] <popey> the development is sponsored by canonical
[21:54] <czajkowski> bkerensa: but it is, and if you try adn hide the fact...
[21:54] <bkerensa> I think producing and sponsoring something is two different things... Not trying to hide facts...
[21:54] <popey> I'd just go with the 'I'm one of a number of people who contribute in our spare time, for free'
[21:54] <bkerensa> Microsoft produces Windows
[21:54] <bkerensa> Canonical sponsors Ubuntu
[21:55] <popey> 'so we have no money to hire rooms'
[21:55] <bkerensa> lol
[21:55] <popey> do they charge for rooms then?
[21:55] <czajkowski> JanC: ping
[21:56] <balloons> from here: http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu "It remains a key tenet of the Ubuntu Project that Ubuntu is a shared work between Canonical, other companies, and the thousands of volunteers who bring their expertise to bear on making it a world-class platform for the whole world to use."
[21:57] <jono> mhall119, http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/2599048417/unity-bitesize-bug-report-for-4-january
[21:57] <bkerensa> popey: Yes they do..
[21:57] <bkerensa> balloons: A very good definition
[21:57] <popey> bkerensa: do they have categories of groups that can use the rooms for free?
[21:57] <bkerensa> popey: Community Groups and Non-Profits
[21:57] <balloons> bkerensa: I would open with that and see what happens.. I know my old LUG met at the library
[21:58] <bkerensa> popey: However if we are promoting or advocating something that is commercial or "produced" by a corporation they have to treat us as a business
[21:58] <popey> fine line that
[21:58] <maco> bkerensa: would a group to provide free tech support and information to the community of people who use $foo   = a community group?
[21:58] <bkerensa> balloons: Correct that is how I explained it because that is the closer definition
[21:59] <jono> mhall119, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/unity-bitesize-bug-status-for-22-march/
[21:59] <bkerensa> maco: surely
[22:00] <balloons> bkerensa: even with the idea of sponsership, you yourself are not connected to canonical in anyway -- this would be no different than a group of moms who love their minivans getting together and talking about them
[22:00] <balloons> in other words, you have nothing to sell.. you won't be making any money for a company
[22:01] <cprofitt> hello all
[22:01] <bkerensa> balloons: Correct. Sponsorship is not a problem however the idea of Ubuntu being something that is sold by Canonical is a problem but clearly Ubuntu is free.
[22:01] <balloons> lol.. well canonical doesn't seell ubuntu -- it's free :-) they do offer support and other services however :-)
[22:02] <bkerensa> correct :)
[22:02] <balloons> i wish you luck however it turns out
[22:03] <cprofitt> bkerensa: I ran in to a similar issue with my library
[22:03] <cprofitt> They had an Apple User Group already meeting there... and I just tole them the Ubuntu group was the same as that
[22:03] <cprofitt> a group of people unaffiliated with the corporate overlords
[22:04] <bkerensa> heh
[22:04] <cprofitt> the librarian arrived at the conclusion because a dot com meant commercial
[22:04] <bkerensa> :D
[22:04] <maco> ubuntulinux.org ;)
[22:05] <cprofitt> exactly
[22:05] <maco> tell them ubuntu has a .org too, but since many people aren't used to things other than .com, the .com is just to make it easier for those people
[22:06] <bkerensa> Well to be fair about it Ubuntu relies on people who contribute because they love the project and FOSS just as much as they rely on Canonical
[22:06] <cprofitt> this is a great page to send folks too -- http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/why-is-it-free
[22:08] <cprofitt> at times it is very difficult to educate people who have preconceived notions
[22:08] <bkerensa> +1
[22:08] <cprofitt> teachers, librarians and politicians appear to have the highest density in that state of being
[22:10] <cprofitt> hey, quick question...
[22:11] <cprofitt> what would you folks think of using a Wiki to docment technical details of a server infrastructure (private wiki)?
[22:11] <czajkowski> we do that for our college server computer soc
[22:12] <czajkowski> it did get a bit messed up with new admins wrecking it till they got a slap on the wrist and permissions were set for people
[22:12] <balloons> documenting is a good first step :-) We use google docs
[22:12] <bkerensa> cprofitt: Sounds like a good idea
[22:12] <MrChrisDruif> What idea?
[22:12] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha btw
[22:12] <cprofitt> I got told today that using a wiki was a bad way to document such things... and was asked to take all the stuff I put on the wiki and convert them to word documents... send them to two people... so they can print them out.
[22:12]  * cprofitt faceplams
[22:13] <czajkowski> cprofitt: aye that's what we do as standard documents for the hospital set up
[22:13]  * MrChrisDruif pads cprofitt on the back
[22:13] <czajkowski> wiki is grand for college/students to learn
[22:15] <cprofitt> czajkowski: do you print them out or store them in a document library?
[22:16] <czajkowski> cprofitt: both. one would be attached to a machine, and the other in a folder for inspection for audits and also to be signed off on
[22:17] <cprofitt> yeah... that makes sense for that use.
[22:17] <cprofitt> we don't really audit any machines... a bit less stringent than a hospital
[22:17] <cprofitt> we do have copies in our DR manuals too.
[22:18] <cprofitt> DR = disaster recovery
[22:18] <czajkowski> well even for the IT department they have to follow the same standard
[22:18] <cprofitt> true... I can see it at a hospital for IT and others
[22:19] <cprofitt> in a school district things are much more relaxed... we get audited every five years
[22:19] <cprofitt> not that it should minimize our efforts...
[22:19] <czajkowski> every 6 months
[22:20] <czajkowski> and each lab got audited so basically you had some audit going on every 4-6 weeks
[22:20] <czajkowski> keeps you on your toes and documentaion up to date
[22:21] <cprofitt> very tight ship then -- that is good.
[22:22] <cprofitt> I would like to see the wiki used as a living document and a hard copy made every 6 months or so (stored off-site)
[22:23] <mhall119> jono: https://bugs.launchpad.net/uds-project
[22:23] <cprofitt> it was just rough to hear that the 'wiki' did not work after putting up documents and maintaining them for six months
[22:25] <cprofitt> the sad thing is that a person who doesn't use the wiki could not find information on it... the information was there, but they did not find it.
[22:25] <cprofitt> but... enough of that... talking about it does not really help
[22:25] <cprofitt> czajkowski: how is your writing gig going?
[22:26] <czajkowski> oh I quit before xmas
[22:26] <jono> jcastro, can we punt our call to tomorrow, I have some things I need to wrap up here and it will go past your EOD
[22:26] <jono> if it is urgent I can make time though
[22:27] <czajkowski> cprofitt: but if the person who doesnt use the wiki cant find the documentaion that's not a good sign
[23:02] <cprofitt> ture.
[23:03] <cprofitt> true... I mean... it could be just a training issue though vs. failure of the wiki'
[23:06] <cprofitt> sorry for the delayed response there... youngest one needed me
[23:07] <jcastro> jono: no worries I was tied up with clint on juju stuff until just now
[23:07] <jcastro> jono: unless you consider my opinion on the latest metallica EP to be an emergency I can wait.
[23:07] <jcastro> :)
[23:07] <cprofitt> jcastro: any outside reading htat would be majoroly confused
[23:07] <cprofitt> "tied up with clint on juju stuff..."
[23:12] <cprofitt> how was your holiday jcastro ?
[23:14] <jono> jcastro, np
[23:14] <jcastro> cprofitt: good good
[23:14] <jcastro> I miss it
[23:14] <jcastro> yours, how's the elbow?
[23:15] <cprofitt> jcastro: it is doing better -- still not back to full range of motion, but the lump is gone and I should get the range of motion back in a little bit
[23:15] <cprofitt> the holidays were great -- every kid was uber excited with no disappointment this year
[23:15] <cprofitt> which was awesome
[23:22] <cprofitt> brb folks
[23:48] <MrChrisDruif> Does anyone know what's the deal with this wiki-page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots It's only like to a few bots wiki-pages (E.g. DragonEyes because of CapitalizedWords). Should the few links be removed or (preferably) add links to all the bots? If this is the wrong channel to ask, please redirect me to the proper channel