[16:02]  * slangasek waves
[16:02]  * stgraber waves
[16:03] <cjwatson> hi
[16:04] <barry> hi
[16:04] <bdmurray> hi
[16:04] <jodh> hi
[16:05] <slangasek> sorry I'm late... fighting a heckuva cold to ring in the new year :P
[16:05] <doko> hi
[16:06] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 16:06:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:06] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:06] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[16:06] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek)
[16:06] <slangasek> slangasek jodh doko cjwatson barry bdmurray ev stgraber
[16:07] <slangasek> not much to report really, besides that I'm fighting a cold that's dragging me down
[16:07] <slangasek> although ia32-libs is installable again, so I guess there's that
[16:08] <barry> nice, so that will stop being held back?
[16:09] <stgraber> slangasek: apt doesn't seem to agree with you, at least on my laptop
[16:09] <slangasek> and I spent some time over the holidays puttering with maven-debian-helper to try to port it to dh(1) so we could eliminate cdbs from that corner... got a little annoyed with what I found in libshout when I converted it for multiarch
[16:09] <slangasek> stgraber: oh, well, I currently have it installed :)
[16:10]  * cjwatson tries in chdist
[16:10] <slangasek> stgraber: happy to debug after the meeting if you're seeing issues
[16:10] <slangasek> EOF
[16:10] <stgraber> slangasek: "apt-get install ia32-libs winbind:amd64" works though, so seems to be an apt weirdness
[16:10] <slangasek> ah
[16:10] <slangasek> perhaps it worked better for me because I already had winbind installed
[16:11] <slangasek> so that sounds like the stock "apt picks the foreign-arch package when it should pick the native-arch one" bug
[16:11] <jodh> Discussions and reviews with stgraber re mountall change for disabling
[16:11] <jodh> mounting of already mounted directories. Discussions regarding new
[16:11] <jodh> setuid/setgid stanzas and applicability to different job processes.
[16:11] <jodh> Worked on tests for logging of "early" Upstart job output to ensure that
[16:11] <jodh> even jobs which *end* before the log disk is writeable have log files
[16:11] <jodh> created when the disk does become writeable. Restarted effort to squish
[16:11] <jodh> plymouth bug 553745 / bug 849414. Identified reason for failing tests
[16:11] <jodh> when building upstart 1.4 in/on PPA/buildd: these environments are
[16:11] <jodh> precise chroots with a lucid kernel. Unfortunately, the lucid kernel has
[16:11] <jodh> different signal semantics to a precise kernel!
[16:11] <jodh> So, anyone running tests as part of their build process needs to be *very* careful potentially.
[16:12] <jodh> џ
[16:12] <doko> - gcc-4.7 packaging updates, gcc-snapshot update
[16:12] <doko> - clean up the kde upload mess
[16:12] <doko> - start another rebuild test, gcc-4.7
[16:12] <doko> - evaluate build failures for gcc-4.7 test rebuild on x86 and armhf
[16:12] <doko>   and boost 4.7 fixes
[16:12] <doko> - python2.6 dependency removals
[16:12] <doko> - openjdk-6 update
[16:12] <doko> - re-installation of arm machines (armhf now)
[16:12] <doko> - another try at eglibc-2.15 (supposed to branch now)
[16:12] <doko> - openmpi fixes for armhf and armel
[16:12] <doko> - NEW processing, syncs and merges ...
[16:12] <doko> - pestered people of multiarch triplets
[16:12] <doko> (done)
[16:13] <barry> doko: thanks for the py2.6 rebuilds
[16:13] <doko> barry: zope2.12 is left (hint, hint ...), needs an update to zope2.13
[16:13] <doko> maybe mterry was involved with this too?
[16:13] <cjwatson> Back to +1 maintenance this month.  I've mostly been helping to clear the backlog of archive administration work from the holidays, especially trying to catch up on removals where we'd fallen behind, which involved sorting out quite a lot of font package renamings.
[16:13] <cjwatson> Tracked down and fixed bug 900526.
[16:13] <cjwatson> Updated Wubi for precise.
[16:13] <cjwatson> Landed a few more Launchpad branches: port to new python-apt API, stop wasting publisher time on obsolete and future series, and fixed new cron.germinate to not explode on dogfood.  Also QAed mvo's branch to extend the support-timeframe information in the archive for precise.
[16:13] <barry> doko: i'll take a look
[16:13] <cjwatson> Pulled and uploaded James' Upstart 1.4 branch - thanks!
[16:13] <cjwatson> ..
[16:14] <jodh> cjwatson: thank you!!
[16:14] <cjwatson> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/792819/ - even 'ia32-libs winbind:amd64' doesn't work here
[16:14] <barry> forwarded fix for bug 901840 to debian.  caught up on the holiday email avalanche.  got a response from the dbus-python maintainer that my branch is under review.  done.
[16:15] <cjwatson> 'ia32-libs winbind:amd64 bluez-alsa:amd64 libcanberra-gtk-module:amd64' works
[16:15] <bdmurray> bug triage of some important bugs reported over the holidays
[16:16] <bdmurray> I've been working with flot (a different tool) for graphing and charting now too
[16:16] <bdmurray> done
[16:16] <stgraber> - Testing tracker
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Added some live filtering of the builds
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Every admin action is now logged
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Re-introduced testcase subscription report
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Introduced new "top testers" report
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Some layout improvements
[16:16] <stgraber> - SRUs
[16:16] <stgraber>  - opencryptoki (TPM) is now in proposed for lucid, maverick and natty. Waiting for customer to do the testing.
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Still waiting on initial testing by Trellis of the patched ifenslave-2.6 for Oneiric before uploading to proposed.
[16:16] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:16] <stgraber>  - One more ifenslave-2.6 fix to properly deal with vlan tagging.
[16:16] <stgraber>  - Prepared a blog post with the state of network in Ubuntu including some explanations and examples.
[16:16] <stgraber>    http://www.stgraber.org/2012/01/04/networking-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts/
[16:17] <stgraber>  - Merged, uploaded and backported the new tcpdump (bug 892285)
[16:17] <stgraber> - Containers
[16:17] <stgraber>  - Reworked my mountall patch based on James' comments, new version is waiting for review.
[16:17] <slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, I suspect those are all the same kind of issue as libpam-winbind (following a dep on a M-A: foreign package down the wrong branch)
[16:17] <stgraber> - Other
[16:17] <stgraber>  - Converted a bunch of packages to dh_python2 and sponsored some other, trying to get Edubuntu pysupport and pycentral free. Only one left is wxwidgets2.8.
[16:17] <stgraber> (done)
[16:17] <barry> stgraber: \o/
[16:18] <stgraber> barry: for wxwidgets2.8 I'm not completely sure whether we want to sync/merge from Debian or keep our current version and cherry pick the dh_python2 change from Debian
[16:18] <stgraber> barry: (I'm not at all familiar with wxwidgets)
[16:19] <slangasek> and ev's on holiday today, so that's everyone
[16:19] <slangasek> stgraber: it's wxwidgets, we want to do as little maintenance on it as possible - merge sounds good ;)
[16:19] <barry> stgraber: yes, +1 for merging :)
[16:20] <cjwatson> oh, yes, I have an alpha-2 bug waiting on ev to get back and look at it
[16:20] <stgraber> ok, will do that then
[16:20] <cjwatson> but he has mail about that
[16:20] <barry> stgraber: thanks
[16:21] <cjwatson> jodh: incidentally, bug 900526 which I mentioned above - you may want to be aware of that failure mode in case there've ever been upstart SRUs that changed initctl non-trivially, since you might end up with some incomprehensible archaeology otherwise
[16:21] <doko> stgraber, what are the diffs about?
[16:21] <cjwatson> in particular the failure mode where you can end up with dpkg thinking upstart from -updates is installed but in fact the initctl binary is still the one from the release pocket
[16:21] <jodh> cjwatson: thanks for the pointer!
[16:23] <stgraber> doko: we mostly have a different upstream version (one that never made it to Debian) and 10 Ubuntu changes on top of that, not sure how much of that is in Debian. I'll have a look later today/tomorrow and get the exact diff with Debian
[16:24] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Rally planning
[16:24] <slangasek> we have a rally coming up right around the corner... everyone should have concrete plans of what they're going to be using the face time for
[16:25] <slangasek> of course these plans are all going to go out the window because of 20,000 interrupts from other teams, but we should plan nonetheless ;)
[16:25] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Rally/Precise/Foundations
[16:25] <cjwatson> Just as a reminder, I'm not going to be at the rally, so if you want to get hold of me, plan videoconferencing :)
[16:25] <cjwatson> I'm likely to be around unless I get sudden instructions to go to the hospital ...
[16:26] <cjwatson> (If that happens, I'll try to let somebody know)
[16:26] <slangasek> please populate that page this week, so that I can help you pull in people from other teams where needed, etc
[16:26] <slangasek> and yes, if you need to coordinate with cjwatson on things, that will be via videoconference only :)
[16:27] <slangasek> questions?
[16:27] <slangasek> oh yes, planning for a team dinner for Wednesday... I trust that's agreeable to people as usual? :)
[16:28] <doko> so maybe we can walk a bit further this time?
[16:29] <slangasek> well, I'm up for a walk if everyone else is :)
[16:29] <stgraber> sure, no problem with that
[16:29] <barry> bring warm clothes :)
[16:29] <slangasek> oh right, I'll need to find some warm clothes, won't I
[16:30]  * slangasek shakes his fist at continental climates... I moved for a reason, you know
[16:30] <stgraber> bah, from what I saw so far, it's actually kind of warm over there (5C vs -20C in Sherbrooke or 0C where I'm at the moment)
[16:30] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:30] <MrChrisDruif> AOB?
[16:31] <slangasek> any other business
[16:31] <jodh> Any ideas why there is only an armhf build log for precise here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth ?
[16:31] <bdmurray> I wanted to bring up bug 906633
[16:32] <slangasek> jodh: because only armhf was built in precise - the other archs were built in oneiric
[16:32] <slangasek> the package hasn't had a source upload since oneiric released
[16:32] <slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ the above ubuntu-cdimage bug looks like a reasonable change to me in principle
[16:33] <MrChrisDruif> Ow, I've got one. Why is the link in the Fridge to the Agende not working? I've changed YYYY/MMDD with the actual date of today
[16:33] <cjwatson> yes, IIRC I asked Brian to file it :)
[16:33] <jodh> slangasek: ok, ta.
[16:33] <slangasek> cjwatson: heh :)
[16:33] <cjwatson> MrChrisDruif: this is a foundations team meeting, we don't manage the fridge ...
[16:33] <cjwatson> I don't think we generally have an agenda published in advance anyway
[16:34] <cjwatson> I'll have a look at that cdimage bug today or tomorrow
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> I think you've added it to the Fridge ^_^
[16:34] <cjwatson> I doubt it, it picks it up from google calendar, iirc
[16:34] <MrChrisDruif> cjw44 ring any bells?
[16:34] <cjwatson> if I did so it was years ago and no longer relevant
[16:35] <MrChrisDruif> I'll send an email to the creator ^_^
[16:35] <cjwatson> I have no interest in what the fridge says about this meeting, honestly :)
[16:35] <slangasek> cjwatson: assigned then - thanks :)
[16:36] <cjwatson> MrChrisDruif: that's enough like my old google account login that I'm nearly certain the fridge picked it up from google calendar
[16:37] <MrChrisDruif> I'll send an email and see who'll respond ^_^
[16:37] <slangasek> yep, that's in the google calendar event
[16:37] <slangasek> MrChrisDruif: but as cjwatson said, we don't usually publish a formal agenda beforehand
[16:38] <MrChrisDruif> Okay
[16:38] <slangasek> I could take that out of the event description, I suppose
[16:39] <slangasek> anything else for today?
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, if it's useless, why include it
[16:39] <MrChrisDruif> Nope, not for me.
[16:40] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:40] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  4 16:40:47 2012 UTC.
[16:40] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-04-16.06.moin.txt
[16:40] <slangasek> that's it then
[16:40] <slangasek> thanks, all
[16:41] <barry> thanks
[16:41] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:41] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks slangasek for chairing
[16:41] <slangasek> MrChrisDruif: so do you have an interest in Ubuntu Foundations, or does it just happen to be the meeting running when you popped in? :)
[16:41] <cjwatson> bdmurray: damnit, now I have to edit cdimage/make-web-indices again :)
[16:41] <cjwatson> I must rewrite that in something other than shell
[16:42] <MrChrisDruif> I rolled into it by "chance" so I'm figuring out what this "Ubuntu Foundations" is all about
[16:42] <doko> unexpected reboot ...
[16:42] <cjwatson> much though I love the language it's not 100% suited to generating HTML
[16:42] <MrChrisDruif> (Note: I don't believe in chance)
[16:42] <slangasek> doko: we just wrapped - you didn't have anything else for AOB, did you?
[16:42] <doko> no
[16:42] <slangasek> ok
[16:46] <slangasek> MrChrisDruif: foundations is largely explained here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam
[16:47] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, saw the link in the Fridge thingy'
[17:00] <phillw> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 17:00:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <phillw> hello everyone! please show yourself as present :)
[17:00] <phillw> #topic attendance
[17:00] <alourie> phillw: sorry, I'm missing in person today
[17:00] <alourie> will read logs later
[17:01]  * charlie-tca seems to be here today
[17:01] <phillw> alourie: no worries
[17:01] <phillw> anyone else here?
[17:02] <stenten> I'm here from Lubuntu QA
[17:02] <phillw> hmm, seems only lubutnu and xubuntu QA represented?
[17:03] <charlie-tca> That's all we ever have, isn't it?
[17:03] <phillw> it'll be a short meeting!
[17:03]  * charlie-tca don't know for sure, seems to have missed a couple of meetings himself.
[17:04] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha phillw
[17:04] <phillw> hi MrChrisDruif
[17:05] <phillw> I'll give it a couple ofmore minutes to see if any late comers...
[17:05] <avarisclari> good morning/evening/whateveryourtimezone is
[17:05]  * MrChrisDruif will only lurk thou
[17:06] <nuclearbob> howdy
[17:06] <phillw> #topic actions from last meeting
[17:06] <phillw> patrickmw: are you here?
[17:07] <phillw> I'll carry that one forward
[17:07] <phillw> #action patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins.
[17:07] <meetingology> ACTION: patrickmw to publish a list of launchpad projects that conform our automated testing in jenkins.
[17:08] <phillw> #topic blueprints
[17:08] <phillw> Are there any people present who can give an update on any of the blue print sub-topics?
[17:09] <nuclearbob> are subtopics distinct from individual blueprints, or are those the same?
[17:10] <phillw> nuclearbob: I list the individual blue-prints as sub-toopics (I think, from memory that is how gema structures them).
[17:10] <avarisclari> i'm a new guy thought i'd start attending meetings and help test, so iunno
[17:10] <nuclearbob> I can give some updates on other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
[17:11] <phillw> #subtopic other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
[17:11] <nuclearbob> and other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
[17:11] <nuclearbob> on the qa-regression-testing, autotest-server and autotest-client packages are now available in my ppa
[17:11] <phillw> nuclearbob: if you'd start with other-p-qa-qa-regression-testing
[17:11] <nuclearbob> sconklin has been evaluating kernel test suites for inclusion into regular testing, and he feels that autotest will be a good fit for future inclusion, so I'm working with him on determining which of their existing tests we want to run
[17:12] <nuclearbob> I'm also getting the qrt tests setup to run on images for all currently supported series for both x86 and amd64
[17:13] <nuclearbob> and that's all for that blueprint for this week
[17:13] <phillw> thanks
[17:13] <phillw> #subtopic other-p-qa-boot-speed-testing
[17:13] <nuclearbob> I've been working with patrickmw on that, we've got architecture added now
[17:13] <nuclearbob> so, for instance, if you visit:
[17:13] <nuclearbob> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-01/index.html
[17:14] <nuclearbob> you can see results for historical and recent tests on i386 and amd64
[17:14] <phillw> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/boot-speed/acer-veriton-01/index.html
[17:14] <nuclearbob> that's all I've got for this one, but I remembered I also have an update for other-p-builds-smoke-testing
[17:15] <phillw> thanks
[17:15] <phillw> #subtopic other-p-builds-smoke-testing
[17:15] <nuclearbob> we now generate two reports based on the updated qa bug tagging criteria described here:
[17:15] <nuclearbob> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/TestingTypeAndBugTracking
[17:16] <nuclearbob> an open bugs report is here:
[17:16] <nuclearbob> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qa/qa-open-bugs.html
[17:16] <nuclearbob> and a closed bugs report is here:
[17:16] <nuclearbob> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qa/qa-closed-bugs.html
[17:16] <nuclearbob> I'm working on consolidating bug tasks in the report, since they currently appear separately, adding extra lines that don't really provide much more information
[17:17] <nuclearbob> I don't have an ETA on that, but I'll update everyone when it's ready
[17:17] <nuclearbob> and that's all for me this week
[17:17] <phillw> thanks nuclearbob :)
[17:17] <phillw> #topic xubuntu
[17:17] <phillw> charlie-tca: ...
[17:17] <charlie-tca> Oh
[17:18] <charlie-tca> Both desktop images and alternate-i386 are oversize for Xubuntu
[17:18] <charlie-tca> strange quirk I am still verifying...
[17:19] <charlie-tca> If "Install Xubuntu" is picked from cd menu, the first screen shows languages. Hitting Enter results in the top most language being selected and the rest of the screens are in that language.
[17:19] <cjwatson> they're oversized for a lot of things
[17:19] <cjwatson> topmost?  odd
[17:19] <charlie-tca> Will enter a bug for that one after I get it verified
[17:19] <cjwatson> should be English
[17:20] <charlie-tca> It defaults to english, but hitting enter instead of clicking the mouse forces the top language instead
[17:20] <charlie-tca> That's all from here for today...
[17:20] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:20] <phillw> thanks
[17:20] <phillw> #lubuntu
[17:20] <phillw> #topic lubuntu
[17:20] <stenten> phillw created the Lubuntu QA team as requested. The team can be found on Launchpad at:
[17:21] <stenten> #link https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-qa
[17:21] <stenten> I think that's it from me at least :)
[17:22] <phillw> all seems quiet on the lubuntu front - charlie-tca if you verify your bug, I'll check it with a lubuntu install to see if it across flavours.
[17:22] <charlie-tca> Okay
[17:22] <charlie-tca> will let you know
[17:23] <phillw> #topic any other business
[17:23] <phillw> Has anyone any further points to raise?
[17:23] <phillw> #topic next chair
[17:24] <phillw> does anyone wish to chair the next meeting?
[17:24] <phillw> I'll leave myself there, until I can confirm with gema that she'll be back next week :)
[17:25] <phillw> hopefully with the end of the festivities things will be back to normal
[17:25] <phillw> thank you to all who attended.
[17:26] <phillw> #endmeeting
[17:26] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  4 17:26:03 2012 UTC.
[17:26] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-04-17.00.moin.txt
[17:27] <charlie-tca> phillw: Thank you for chairing
[17:28] <nuclearbob> yeah, thanks phillw
[17:28] <phillw> your're welcome, I'm just a bit rusty!
[17:28] <phillw> I'll update the wiki
[18:00] <charlie-tca> phillw: verified using both xubuntu and Ubuntu, virtualbox and hardware. Filing the bug now
[18:14] <charlie-tca> phillw: bug 911905 filed
[18:34] <micahg> no bugs meeting?
[19:01] <phillw> charlie-tca: thanks, I'll run 12.04 in VM later
[19:01] <charlie-tca> Great! all it takes is that first screen after selecting "install ??"
[19:44] <mcbaine1> When does the Lubuntu meeting actually start ??
[19:47] <MrChrisDruif> mcbaine1; in about 15 minutes
[20:00] <mcbaine1> it'sd 8pm utc
[20:00]  * gilir takes a seat :)
[20:00] <wxl> wait ]Spectre[ all you want is to secure the data on your usb? i thought you wanted to use it for login
[20:00] <mcbaine1> plus headphones ofcourse !!
[20:00] <wxl> oops
[20:00] <wxl> stupid wrong channel
[20:00] <MrChrisDruif> ]^_^
[20:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> lol
[20:01] <mcbaine1> Yeah, What about THAT guy ??
[20:01] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; #startmeeting ?
[20:01] <gilir> #startmeeting
[20:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 20:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[20:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:01] <MrChrisDruif> o/
[20:01] <mcbaine1> Maybe I'm in the wrong pub ??
[20:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> o/
[20:01] <gastly> o/
[20:01] <jmarsden|work> o/
[20:01] <phillw> o/
[20:02] <gilir> :)
[20:02] <Unit193> \o
[20:02] <mcbaine1> o/
[20:02] <mcbaine1> topic ...
[20:02] <gilir> welcome to the lubuntu team meeting :)
[20:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> unimix, \o/
[20:02] <amjjawad> gilir: hi, am I in the right place?
[20:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> aww Unit193*
[20:02] <gilir> agenda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:03] <MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; yes
[20:03] <amjjawad> ok, good
[20:03] <amjjawad> so hi everyone
[20:03] <gilir> we will follow the topic on the agenda, if you have a question, just o/ :)
[20:03] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okies
[20:04] <MrChrisDruif> Alrighty
[20:04] <gilir> #topic Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:04] <mcbaine1> Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:04] <gilir> previous logs : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111221
[20:04] <]Spectre[> hi
[20:04] <IAmNotThatGuy> mcbaine1, Let the boss talk ;] and hi ]Spectre[
[20:04] <gilir> the proposal for the teams was posted, so far, only good feedbacks :)
[20:04] <hyperair> \o
[20:05] <]Spectre[> hi IAmNotThatGuy
[20:05] <amjjawad> gilir: the subteams on that link you sent are the same teams we are talking about?
[20:05] <gilir> we can probably make it official for the next meeting, just to be sure everyone read it
[20:06] <MrChrisDruif> Sure
[20:06] <gilir> amjjawad, yes, this one : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/SubTeams
[20:06] <amjjawad> gilir: thanks, I already signed up with my launchpad name. But, I couldn't find the communication subteam as I'm also interested to join that subteam
[20:07] <gilir> amjjawad, probably because it's not created yet
[20:07] <amjjawad> can I create it?
[20:07] <gilir> I don't know if other people are interested by this
[20:07] <phillw> gilir: you can action that to me.
[20:07] <amjjawad> or it needs an admin?
[20:07] <gilir> amjjawad, no, you can do it
[20:07] <phillw> I'll see if I can get Jens to come on board.
[20:08] <amjjawad> communications means facebook, forum, etc and as u know, I'm good in that
[20:08] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, Jens
[20:08] <iceroot> does every of that team has a specific leader for coordination?
[20:08] <amjjawad> gilir: so can I do it or phillw will do it?
[20:08] <gilir> iceroot, it's up to each team to name a leader or a coordinator
[20:09] <gilir> amjjawad, you can do it, ask phillw if you need assistance
[20:09] <amjjawad> ok
[20:09] <amjjawad> phillw: what do u think?
[20:09] <amjjawad> shall i go for it?
[20:09] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; action amjjawad for it and phillw for backup
[20:09] <phillw> amjjawad: we'l chat after the meeting
[20:09] <amjjawad> ok done
[20:10] <gilir> #action amjjawad to create the Comm. team
[20:10] <meetingology> ACTION: amjjawad to create the Comm. team
[20:10] <amjjawad> what about the POC regarding the FAQ pages?
[20:10] <gilir> #action gilir to officialy launch the teams next week
[20:10] <meetingology> ACTION: gilir to officialy launch the teams next week
[20:10] <phillw> amjjawad: that is part of Documentation team.
[20:11] <MrChrisDruif> So that would be me amjjawad
[20:11] <amjjawad> which I'm already part of it :) good
[20:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, and me too ;P
[20:11] <amjjawad> but as far as I know, we had a chat that I'll take care of this? so what do I miss?
[20:11] <gilir> amjjawad, I thik nothing, phillw contacted you as planned, so nothing more to add I think ?
[20:12] <amjjawad> gilir: I replied the email but I did not get any reply yet!
[20:12] <amjjawad> idk what is going on .. I think I miss something
[20:12] <gilir> amjjawad, let's talk about it after the meeting
[20:13] <phillw> amjjawad: we were busy setting up the doc team, patience my friend!
[20:13] <amjjawad> never mind guys
[20:13] <amjjawad> whatever u think it's good for the team
[20:13] <amjjawad> after all, I'm doing my best for Lubuntu and its users :)
[20:13] <amjjawad> I don't care about positions and stuff like that :)
[20:13] <gilir> let's continue with the weekly reports
[20:13] <gilir> #topic Update from QA meeting and team
[20:14] <gilir> phillw, ^ :)
[20:14] <IAmNotThatGuy> gilir, Well, I have one Agenda Item I believe ;P
[20:14] <phillw> the lubuntu-qa team is established (more always welcome). The only outstanding & fresh issue really is bug 911905
[20:15] <phillw> which was raised at the meeting, I'm going to check to see if it also affects lunbuntu after the meeting.
[20:16] <phillw> thank-you to my sharp eyed opposite number at xubuntu :)
[20:16] <gilir> :)
[20:16] <phillw> Also some information as to the reasonings and workings of the automatic testing has been forthcoming.
[20:17] <gilir> well Alpha 2 is in 1 month, we have time to break other stuff :p
[20:17] <phillw> That's all from me.
[20:17] <gilir> thank phillw
[20:17] <jmarsden|work> phillw: Any progress towards automation of ISO testing?
[20:18] <phillw> jmarsden|work: yes, an email arrived i  my inbox 15 minutes ago. I'vwe only had chance to send it to the lubuntu-qa team, not read it yet!
[20:18] <jmarsden|work> I'm ahead of the game :)  OK...
[20:18] <gilir> #topic Update on IRC OP's team
[20:18] <gilir> Unit193, ^ :)
[20:18] <Unit193> 1. We have done some access lists updates 2. There is a meeting later this, or next month about the IRC council onboarding 3. And bug #899630 might be of some interest to us
[20:19] <MrChrisDruif> Unit193; why didn't you mark it as affecting you?
[20:20] <wxl> Unit193: since i was confused may i ask if "IRC Support" is going to be a separate team or be a sub-subteam or just be sort of unofficial?
[20:20] <Unit193> MrChrisDruif: I thought I mmight have, but I follow differently
[20:21] <Unit193> wxl: Last I knew it was mostly unofficial/you add your name to WhoWeare
[20:21] <wxl> Unit193: ok, just clarifying.
[20:21] <gilir> wxl, I think it can be handle by the doc team or the irc team
[20:22] <gilir> it's between the 2 :)
[20:22] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; Support is provided by everyone able, right?
[20:22] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, sure, like testing I hope :)
[20:23] <phillw> I'll add to that, you are not limited to membership of just one team!
[20:23] <gilir> but yes, maybe the team is not needed in this case
[20:23] <amjjawad> Testing, IMHO, should be done by all members NO matter what team they belong to
[20:23] <wxl> gilir: i ask because i am happy to be part of the IRC support but am less inclined to play channel cop. so being a part of IRC OP team doesn't make sense.
[20:23] <MrChrisDruif> IRC OP's team is just to keep the channel clean and Documentation is for writing down information to reduce questions in the first place
[20:24] <MrChrisDruif> So I'd say it tends more to Documentation then OP
[20:24] <wxl> indeed
[20:25] <Unit193> There was a general support team at one point
[20:25] <wxl> i kind of like that idea
[20:25] <jmarsden|work> Maybe we can rename "Documentation Team" to "Documentation and Support Team" ??
[20:25] <wxl> which would also include the forums which also don't neatly fit into the given subteams
[20:25] <gilir> hum, sounds like a good idea :)
[20:26] <phillw> jmarsden|work: Documentation, Wiki, Support, Forum etc..... it's getting to be a long name!
[20:26] <amjjawad> forums is about communications with others more than just documents
[20:26] <gilir> teams names can be changed, is up to each team :)
[20:26] <hobgoblin> only in the cafe is it amjjawad
[20:26] <amjjawad> let's keep the forum support in different team
[20:26] <wxl> i'd say we have IRC OPs for policing the channels, Docs/Wiki, and Support (IRC,Forum)
[20:27] <phillw> If lubuntu wishes, I will set up a 'support' team that any of us from the other teams, or from no team can join?
[20:27] <wxl> +1 phillw
[20:27] <mcbaine1> yes plz.
[20:27] <MrChrisDruif> I like what wxl is saying
[20:27] <amjjawad> forum = support team = yes
[20:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> philiw, I think we are using the Lubuntu list in launchpad. I hope that will be enough
[20:27] <phillw> I take that
[20:28] <phillw> gilir: I think you can action that to me & I'll get it set up tonight.
[20:28] <Unit193> How many teams are we even up to
[20:28] <Unit193> ?
[20:28] <phillw> ...6..?
[20:28] <gilir> #action phillw to create the support team
[20:28] <meetingology> ACTION: phillw to create the support team
[20:28] <gilir> IMO there is no problem to create many teams for the beginning
[20:29] <gilir> we can see in the future if there are useful, or if we can merge some
[20:29] <jmarsden|work> Well, when #teams ~= #activeparticipants, you probably have too many teams :)
[20:29] <amjjawad> gilir: it is all about being organized, I guess1
[20:29] <gilir> jmarsden|work, yes :)
[20:30] <gilir> amjjawad, yes, but also to delegate some specific topics to people
[20:30] <gilir> ok, last weekly report
[20:30] <amjjawad> gilir: I like and support the idea of sub-teams because this is very helpful
[20:30] <IAmNotThatGuy> I would suggest phillw to re-think about creating -support team. I think we can do it after the 12.04 release
[20:32] <gilir> IAmNotThatGuy, why not ? let's see if it's usefull or not
[20:32] <amjjawad> +1 gilir
[20:32] <wxl> i agree
[20:32] <wxl> everything's mutable
[20:33] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay then. If the team is interested to have a separate team, then I have no issues with it =]
[20:33] <gilir> we talk about it next week, we will see how many teams and how many members we will have already
[20:33] <wxl> oh and phillw let me know when it's done so i can join ;)
[20:33] <gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Update on Wiki / Docs team
[20:34] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, nothing really to report right now. The Documentation team only got set up last week and I've been appointed Head last night/this morning.
[20:34] <MrChrisDruif> One thing I
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> 've already spotted is that we've got some duplicate data on our part and some info even needs to move "upstream"
[20:35] <wxl> i'll bring up an old point, if not just to ponder-- we had discussed at some point having a application-specific documentation with an index of some kind. not sure if this is a question of docs or a question of the website (as it seemed to become in the mailing list), but there's something.
[20:36] <amjjawad> the whold wiki pages need a closer review IMHO
[20:36] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: if pages need merging / moving / deleting - just email me
[20:36] <amjjawad> whole sorry
[20:36] <MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; agreed, but I'm not seeing any leader on the Wiki team on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[20:37] <iceroot> amjjawad: i could do that because im am completly new to the lubuntu-team and so i can read all the docu and see if important points (imjo) missing
[20:37] <iceroot> important = infos a complet new member/user needs
[20:37] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: I don't know what has happened, my mentor phil bull has vanished. I will attempt to re-contact them.
[20:38] <MrChrisDruif> I think that would be greatly appreciated
[20:38] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I'm not sure if a leader is all what we really need for that? it's something to do with the team. Now, it's something to do with the sub-team. The idea of having a sub-teams is each and every time will be in charge of specific function or task
[20:38] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, I don't think you need a leader of the whole wiki if you work only on the Lubuntu part
[20:38] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: from memory cproffitt was heavily involved as well.
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; I thought amjjawad was referring to the entire wiki, not just our part
[20:39] <amjjawad> I'm talking about Lubuntu now :)
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> Ah, got ya
[20:39] <amjjawad> I care about Lubuntu more at this point to be extra honest
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[20:40] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: we also need people to keep an eye on the general wiki for when they go flavour specific, e.g. saying to use gedit when we use leafpad etc.
[20:40] <amjjawad> Ubuntu does not need a huge support because it gets all what it needs. On the other hand, Lubuntu does need that big time IMHO
[20:40] <MrChrisDruif> I think a lot of the entire wiki needs rework, but that an other matter. Our section does indeed need a rework I think
[20:41] <amjjawad> ABOVE ALL IMHO, there must be a link from the main documentation or help pages to Lubuntu Wiki
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; indeed. This can be avoided by refering to "the default editor" with a reference to what that is on the different flavors
[20:41] <amjjawad> not only Lubuntu but the other variants too
[20:41] <wxl> phillw: that's a really good point
[20:41] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, maybe you can try to set up a plan for the section ? Before doing any big move ?
[20:41] <wxl> +1 MrChrisDruif
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; sure
[20:42] <wxl> and that is where the ubuntu wiki fails
[20:42] <phillw> or even the default terminal!
[20:42] <gilir> I think the first part is trying tio imagine a "map" of the section
[20:42] <wxl> yes the major problem is that of organizing the information
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; I get the point
[20:42] <phillw> wiki can generate one.
[20:43] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; not reliably
[20:43] <amjjawad> I had and still have a dream to have a strong and solid Wiki like for example Arch Wiki pages but that needs time and effort
[20:43] <wxl> i tihnk there should be categories e.g. window management, text editing, etc. etc.
[20:43] <gilir> well a map or a list of pages, it's a wiki, it can be a bit "not organised" as long as the links are good :)
[20:43] <wxl> amjjawad: on your own such a thing is unlikely but maybe if we work together to develop a plan for how we can make it happen then we can delegate tasks and it can be resolved easily :D
[20:44] <amjjawad> I know wxl  :) nothing impossible at least for me :)
[20:44] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, just think about it, and when you have a clear idea, just submit it during a weekly meeting, ok ? :)
[20:44] <jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: sensible-editor already does point to "the default editor" so you can have people edit by doing    sensible editor /path/to/file.txt
[20:45] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: get a game plan together. you know that everyone will roll up their sleeves to help.
[20:45] <wxl> i will o/
[20:45] <wxl> :)
[20:45] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, didn't know about that. Thanks for the suggestion jmarsden|work
[20:45] <MrChrisDruif> =)
[20:46] <jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: There is also sensible-browser http://example.com
[20:46] <gilir> if it's ok, let's move to the next topic
[20:46] <gilir> #topic IAmNotThatGuy Proposal for maintaining a tutorials page
[20:46] <amjjawad> gilir:
[20:46] <amjjawad> sorry one Q
[20:46] <amjjawad> before we move
[20:47] <gilir> yes ?
[20:47] <amjjawad> what is the difference between https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu and the doc pages?
[20:47] <MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; sensible-editor points to nano
[20:47] <amjjawad> I see the same contents and info are there in two places?
[20:47] <MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; wiki is team related, help is "help" related
[20:47] <gilir> amjjawad, wiki.ubuntu.com is for the team (and now teams :) coordination
[20:47] <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. As we are in a steady growth these days, I'd suggest to have a team to create and maintain tutorials page, either through forums or in lubuntu.net
[20:47] <wxl> that's not a sensible editor but i digress :D
[20:48] <gilir> amjjawad, help.ubuntu.com is for support and help
[20:48] <jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: Yes, that is the default editor in Lubuntu.  You can of course change it to whatever you prefer.
[20:48] <MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; it's the default in normal ubuntu as well
[20:48] <IAmNotThatGuy> Most of the beginners, entering firstly needs some guidelines after installing. So, I thought of putting forward this proposal
[20:48] <amjjawad> ok
[20:49] <amjjawad> why same info here and there?
[20:49] <amjjawad> why the duplicate?
[20:49] <phillw> IAmNotThatGuy: I'm guessing we use something similar to the Absolute Beginners stuff, but with a Lubuntu theme?
[20:49] <gilir> we moved from wiki. to help. sometimes ago, there are many still some dupplicate pages
[20:49] <gilir> amjjawad, ^
[20:49] <MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; that is one of the problems I've spotted. Information is in duplication due to moves and other actions from before my time with the team
[20:50] <amjjawad> so the new one is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu ???
[20:50] <IAmNotThatGuy> philipballew, exactly. Plus, if we find something. good, we can share that link so that people can find a path
[20:50] <IAmNotThatGuy> phillw,* :[
[20:51] <wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu points to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation
[20:51] <gilir> amjjawad, no, the new one is help., but we keep some specific pages on wiki.
[20:51] <wxl> meaning it's got a link that points to it
[20:51] <wxl> now i'm confused. what's "help?"
[20:51] <phillw> IAmNotThatGuy: that certainly sounds quite a reasonable task, we are not devoting resources to try and re-invent the wheel.
[20:51] <amjjawad> Ok, understood, thanks gilir :) but I think we need to fix the duplicate thing
[20:52] <MrChrisDruif> wxl; help *should* be the point were user can find their information
[20:52] <phillw> amjjawad: guess what MrChrisDruif brought up earlier?
[20:52] <amjjawad> wxl: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu
[20:52] <amjjawad> phillw: I know, thanks!
[20:52] <IAmNotThatGuy> We can put this task under documentation team to update the tutorials page (which will have links for the tutorials somewhere in the internet) and make it simple for thee newbies
[20:53] <amjjawad> I'm just stating my opinion, sorry!!!!
[20:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, ready? ;]
[20:53] <MrChrisDruif> I think so, you?
[20:53] <gilir> IAmNotThatGuy, maybe you can propose some ideas for the tutorials ?
[20:53] <IAmNotThatGuy> Yep. I will join you in docs team
[20:53] <gilir> some examples
[20:53] <wxl> when we say tutorials, do we mean videos/screencasts or just simple howtos?
[20:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> wxl, yes
[20:54] <wxl> ok. and do you have a list of topics you want to cover?
[20:54] <phillw> wxl: they can link to our existing excellent screencasts
[20:54] <MrChrisDruif> There are currently a number of screencasts available wxl, and if you'd like to make more: feel free
[20:55] <wxl> phillw: yes but i hear a bit of an implication that this is not sufficient? or is it merely a matter of having them properly indexed/organized, IAmNotThatGuy ?
[20:55] <amjjawad> I have a plan to write an absloute beginner guide for Lubuntu but will do that first either on the forum or my blog
[20:55] <IAmNotThatGuy> gilir, some tutorials in common with *buntu family. We are going to maintain those link. For example, tutorial to install multiple Desktop environments, install an application, package an application, etc
[20:55] <amjjawad> if someone will see it after that and like it, we can convert it to a wiki page
[20:55] <phillw> but, not everyone has kit / bandwidth for vids, so written doc is essential
[20:56] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; noted, but for others it might be handy
[20:56] <IAmNotThatGuy> wxl, yes. a separate tutorials page where we maintain the useful links (I prefer ubuntu site links)
[20:56] <wxl> k i like
[20:56] <iceroot> what about a tutorial/screencast for "if you come from windows, this is new/different in lubuntu" maybe the same for gnome/unity/kde
[20:56] <wxl> +1 iceroot
[20:56] <iceroot> maybe a topic to discuss in the doc-team
[20:56] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: a screencast is excellent, however you do all know my views on accessibillity :)
[20:57] <IAmNotThatGuy> nice idea iceroot
[20:57] <gilir> let's the doc team work on this :)
[20:58] <gilir> #topic other topics ?
[20:58] <phillw> gilir: sounds like a good idea to me, they're fizzing with ideas... What have I done by creating a team and putting such a group of enthusiastic people together?!!! :D
[20:58] <gilir> Any other items to discuss today (2 min left) ?
[20:58] <MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; do you happen to have the option to come more to IRC?
[20:59] <iceroot> gilir: i still have a topic.... lts
[20:59] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I don't like it but if that helps, I'll
[20:59] <wxl> amjjawad: yeah it's nice to virtually see you ;)
[20:59] <amjjawad> I do love working in teams but I do have my own style
[20:59] <MrChrisDruif> It's much easier to discuss things quickly amjjawad
[20:59] <phillw> +1
[20:59] <amjjawad> wxl: and MrChrisDruif ok, I'll do my best :)
[21:00] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks amjjawad ^_^
[21:00] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: one hour daily is good?
[21:00] <gilir> iceroot, it was already discussed, the answer is no :)
[21:00] <MrChrisDruif> I think so, what time?
[21:00] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I'm +4GMT
[21:01] <amjjawad> maybe before 20:00??
[21:01] <iceroot> gilir: ok, then i will stop now with that topic
[21:01] <amjjawad> it's 1am now
[21:01] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, I am happy with any time. So, no need of considering me ;D
[21:01] <gilir> #endmeeting
[21:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jan  4 21:01:33 2012 UTC.
[21:01] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-04-20.01.moin.txt
[21:01] <phillw> gilir thanks for chairing.
[21:01] <MrChrisDruif> I know IAmNotThatGuy
[21:01]  * IAmNotThatGuy 's time is 2:30 AM ;P
[21:01] <wxl> ok lete's carry on this conversation elsewhere then
[21:02] <IAmNotThatGuy> thanks gilir =]
[21:02] <MrChrisDruif> How about 19:00UTC amjjawad ?
[21:02] <gilir> thanks for participating :)
[21:02] <amjjawad> good
[21:02] <amjjawad> day?
[21:02] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; thanks for chairing ^_^
[21:02] <MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; you said daily?
[21:03] <MrChrisDruif> I'd have to think about a day amjjawad
[21:03] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: can we make it 18:00? it would be prefect for me if 18:00
[21:03] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: sorry, yes, I can do it daily, I guess!!!
[21:03] <MrChrisDruif> I'd like to host a wiki meeting sometime anyway. When I've put together a plan
[21:04] <MrChrisDruif> I'm online almost every day amjjawad , so I think that will be okay
[21:04] <amjjawad> you have my email, MrChrisDruif ?
[21:04] <amjjawad> I'm always on google talk and facebook and also the forums
[21:05] <MrChrisDruif> I've seen numerous replies from you, so I think I'll be able to find it
[21:05] <MrChrisDruif> Could you add me to google then or facebook amjjawad ?
[21:06] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: Gmail/Google Talk, Facebook, Ubuntu Forum ... whatever u want :)
[21:06] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: whatever you want :) I use many tabs at once
[21:06] <MrChrisDruif> I'll make it easy for you by using something you and I already have
[21:06] <amjjawad> Yeah, like Google Talk?
[21:07] <MrChrisDruif> Meh, do Facebook if you would
[21:07] <amjjawad> both mate :)
[21:07] <amjjawad> my facebook on my gmail email
[21:07] <amjjawad> so you can find me if you search
[21:08] <MrChrisDruif> I'm more easily found with google
[21:08] <MrChrisDruif> Try searching for "Chris Druif"
[21:08] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: Ok :)
[21:10] <amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: my google ID is the same as my username here
[21:10] <amjjawad> and again, if you want on failbook (this is what I call it :P), you can search by my gmail address
[21:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, is it easy to find me? :P
[21:11] <Unit193> Don't think there is another meeting right now, but best to clear just in case
[21:11] <MrChrisDruif> Yup, I can almost always find you in one of these channels IAmNotThatGuy
[21:11] <Unit193> #lubuntu-offtopic
[21:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> ;P
[21:11] <amjjawad> IAmNotThatGuy: you are already on my list, right?
[21:11] <IAmNotThatGuy> Unit193, ok
[21:12] <Unit193> Thank you
[21:21] <Unit193> Woah, I thought I closed this already