[08:05] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> http://www.fieldcandy.com/original/rulebritannia.htm
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings.
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> \o TheOpenSourcerer
[08:42] <danfish> watchout, TheOpenSourcerer is in overlord mood today
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> danfish: Alan Overlord? ;)
[08:47] <danfish> MartijnVdS: exactly
[08:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[08:59] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:02] <danfish> o/
[09:05] <hoover> good morning
[09:05] <MooDoo> morning
[09:14] <popey> Morning
[09:15] <dwatkins> hiya
[09:16] <oimon> rather chuffed to discover that today is friday!
[09:17] <dwatkins> woot
[09:17]  * hoover agrees with oimon 
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 ?
[09:17] <oimon> doesn't dare click
[09:17] <oimon> in case of...
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> oimon: it's not Rick A.
[09:17] <dwatkins> It's that Friday song, isn't it?
[09:17] <dwatkins> Worse than a Rick-Roll, she is.
[09:19] <oimon> i prefer ham roll
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> Hmm: http://www.medievalcookery.com
[09:30] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigonman
[09:34] <christel> morning lovelies
[09:34] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[09:34] <brobostigon> morning christel
[09:36] <christel> how's tricks? :)
[09:37] <brobostigon> christel: not so hot, my eczema is pretty bad, and have an emergency appointment with my doctor at 11am. and you?
[09:39] <oimon> anyone know how to use acsm file in linux to get an ebook?
[09:41] <DJones> oimon: Will they not just open as a though it was a pdf file?
[09:41] <oimon> DJones: no :(
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> acsm?
[09:42] <DJones> http://ebookreadersoftware.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/acsm-files-what-they-are-and-how-to-work-with-them/
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> ah.. DRM-encumbered?
[09:42] <oimon> what a nightmare
[09:43] <oimon> i wondre in adobe digital editions is even available on linux
[09:43] <christel> brobostigon: auchies! i hope they give you something that helps -- i am not too bad! trying to wrap up a dreadful job by the deadline (noon) and looking forward to kicking back afterwards :)
[09:43] <DJones> oimon: I don't think it is, although I think i can be installed under wine
[09:43] <oimon> DRM sucks
[09:44] <oimon> non-standard file formats suck worse
[09:44] <brobostigon> christel: me too, yes, thank you. good luck, :), and then treat yourself with something nice to reward yourself.
[09:44] <DJones> A bit old but may help http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-701191.html
[09:45] <oimon> there's no way this will allow book sto be read on an ebook reader
[09:46] <DJones> Which ereader? I got a kono touch for Christmas and I ended up activating that via windows and then donloading some books via the kobo website, they seem fine although I think they may be drm'd epubs
[09:46] <DJones> kobo even
[09:47] <oimon> I want to read an ebook from the library on a kindle
[09:48] <DJones> the acsm file appears to be a file that gives you the right to download the book, not the book itself
[09:49] <christel> brobostigon: i shall indeed! :)
[09:50] <popey> i thought calibre had plugins to strip drm from anything
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> popey: not in the default (apt-get) install
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> for obvious reasons
[09:51] <popey> no, not in the default install
[09:51] <ali1234> also said plugins don't work with the newest release
[09:51] <ali1234> luckily they all have standalone versions
[09:51] <DJones> popey: I think the problem is that the acsm file isn't the book itself, just the right to download it into digital additions
[09:51] <popey> ah
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> I love how Amazon's Kindle works/integrates with the on-line store
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> no messing around with crappy PC software
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> just click "Buy" and get it delivered over wifi
[09:53] <dwatkins> I was susprised to learn that the Kindle doesn't support epub, but everything else about it seems to work well.
[09:53] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Same with the kobo, their website does the same
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> DJones: it auto-downloads to Kindles?
[09:53] <DJones> MartijnVdS: No, just to the kobo readers
[09:54] <ali1234> android market and itunes work exactly the same way
[09:54] <ali1234> it's hardly unique
[09:55] <oimon> you would think the a library would make it easy to borrow (e)books...
[09:55] <ali1234> why would you want to borrow an ebook?
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: The fact that it's not unique doesn't make it a bad user experience though ;)
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: not necessarily anyway
[09:55] <oimon> ali1234: to read it
[09:55] <oimon> if it takes < 2 weeks to read a book, why buy it?
[09:55] <oimon> i also wish to respect the laws of the coutnry
[09:56] <ali1234> if it takes less than 2 minutes to make a copy you can keep forever, why borrow it?
[09:56] <JamesTait> Good morning all. :)
[09:56] <oimon> ali1234: ethics
[09:57] <ali1234> that's the most pointless ethical decision ever
[09:57] <ali1234> the end result is exactly the same
[09:57] <oimon> except that one is "right" and one is "wrong" by the law
[09:57] <AlanBell> you keep it forever anyway, just in a slightly soggier storage format
[09:57] <ali1234> the law doesn't define what is right and wrong
[09:58] <ali1234> it just defines things you can and cannot be punished for
[10:01] <JamesTait> I think just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you need the book for something you're going to refer to once and never use again, borrow it, or copy the epub and delete it afterwards. If it's worth keeping, it's worth paying the author for their efforts.
[10:02] <oimon> i will of course complain the library for having such a ridiculous system..
[10:03] <oimon> not that it will achieve anything
[10:03] <JamesTait> Frustrating, isn't it?
[10:04] <oimon> yeah :(
[10:08] <oimon> currently installing mono for windows in wine :-\
[10:13] <dwatkins> oimon: which application requires this?
[10:13] <Laney> /mono/ for windows? not even .NET?
[10:13] <oimon> adobe digital editions dwatkins
[10:13] <oimon> i'm getting tied in know
[10:13] <oimon> knots
[10:13] <dwatkins> oimon: oh right, I've not used it but I can imagine.
[10:18] <popey> chaps
[10:18] <popey> when i press the touch pad on my laptop, the unity dash appears as if I have pressed the super key
[10:18] <popey> any ideas how to debug this, it's highly annoying
[10:18] <popey> the dash randomly appears when my fingers go near the touchpad
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> is your mouse pointer on the top icon?
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> of the sidebar
[10:19] <popey> no
[10:19] <dwatkins> oimon: you may find you get an "error converting license" even running ADE under Wine, in which case you might have to just cheat :-/
[10:19]  * oimon cries
[10:19] <dwatkins> i.e. run windows in a virtual machine, of course
[10:19] <dwatkins> not that I would suggest cracking the drm or anything with calibre
[10:20] <dwatkins> I refuse to use that app, the person who wrote it is full of bile.
[10:20] <popey> which app?
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> calibre?
[10:20] <dwatkins> as MartijnVdS says
[10:20] <popey> how so?
[10:20] <ali1234> the UI is awful too
[10:21] <dwatkins> popey: I don't need to use it, thankfully, but there was a long thread on launchpad about it mounting filesystems
[10:21] <popey> we put the UI argument to him, he said its deliberate because its aimed at non-computer users
[10:21] <popey> oh that
[10:21] <ali1234> he deliberately made all the icons look like fisherprice?
[10:21] <dwatkins> he fixed some things, but was rather unopleasant about it all
[10:21] <dwatkins> hey, what's wrong with Fisher Price? ;)
[10:21] <ali1234> because that's what non-cmputer users like?
[10:21] <popey> well people were pretty off to him
[10:21] <BigRedS> non-computer users? But it's a computer app!
[10:21] <popey> you know what i mean
[10:21] <popey> non-experts
[10:21] <BigRedS> :)
[10:21] <popey> normals
[10:22] <BigRedS> yeah
[10:22] <dwatkins> muggles
[10:22] <popey> yeah
[10:22] <occupy64k> Everything is a computer app now
[10:22] <ali1234> also the UI is not good for beginners
[10:22] <oimon> getting closer
[10:22] <oimon> i can see the book inside digital editions
[10:22] <ali1234> it's too complicated. too many toolbars
[10:22] <dwatkins> there are those of us who run an IRC client from the command line whilst listening to the ambient sounds of the starship enterprise, and there are (at the other end of the scale) those who believe the internet is facebook ;)
[10:22]  * dwatkins whistles innocently with his headphones on
[10:22] <popey> hahah
[10:23] <occupy64k> Too much complexity is bad.  Think of the magic number 7 plus or minus 2
[10:23] <popey> speaking of which
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: /ctcp sound tada.wav
[10:23] <oimon> can't seem to get the pdf/epub out of the software though
[10:23] <popey> i was remotely controlling my motehr in laws xp machine last night
[10:23] <dwatkins> occupy64k: five is right out!
[10:23] <popey> i suggested she use something other than IE
[10:23] <gord> We have had the new software centre icon for what, six months or so now? i still sometimes click it to open nautilus
[10:23] <popey> i already had chrome on the box, and opened it
[10:23] <popey> she said 'yes, but how will i get the internet on this'
[10:23] <dwatkins> popey: oh my
[10:23] <popey> so i set her homepage to yahoo.com and she was fine
[10:24] <popey> thats how normals see it
[10:24] <ali1234> gord: i removed it from the launcher. now i don't accidentally click it
[10:24] <DJones> My dad is the same, he calls every browser "Google" because thats what his home page is
[10:24] <ali1234> i replaced it by synaptic :/
[10:24] <oimon> ahah...finally have a drm encumbered epub to work with
[10:24] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I have a minimalist homepage to fill with links: http://rowla.dyndns.org/
[10:25] <gord> i actually like the software centre, so i don't really want to remove it, just wish it had a slightly different icon :)
[10:25] <ali1234> i don't care for it. it takes far too long to load
[10:25] <ali1234> and there's no feedback when it's doing something
[10:25] <gord> it sure does, but still prefer it myself
[10:25] <gord> i like the reviews
[10:26] <ali1234> by the time i have loaded a package manager i already know what i wwant to install
[10:26] <ali1234> thus reviews are useless, except maybe as something to read while i wait for it to install
[10:26] <brobostigon> its like for example, my dad knows other mp3 players exist, and tablets exist, but still generalises them as ipods and ipads.
[10:27] <oimon> going back to calibre, someone say i have to download the deb from the site to get it to strip drm?
[10:27] <ali1234> no
[10:27] <ali1234> don't use calibre to strip DRM, it doesn't work in the new versions
[10:27] <ali1234> the plugins are not updated
[10:27] <dwatkins> and there was me worried I was reccomending a "naughty" application...
[10:28] <ali1234> instead, you should just go to the plugin site, and get the standalone version that only needs python and operates from the command line
[10:28] <dwatkins> oimon: can you get the book in PDF format and just e-mail it to your converter address?
[10:28] <dwatkins> oh wait, it this for Kindle?
[10:28] <BigRedS> I can't seem to find a xen kernel in the oneiric repos. Is it happy to be a domu out of the box?
[10:28] <oimon> dwatkins: yep
[10:28] <dwatkins> ok, yeah - get a PDF if you can
[10:29] <oimon> i have a drm'd epub, which won't work on kindle
[10:29] <Laney> I just got k4mobidedrm from some website, seems to work without much hassle.
[10:29] <Laney> but you need to give it some serial number from the kindle so I'm not sure it can strip arbitrary epubs
[10:29] <ali1234> right
[10:30] <dwatkins> if you can get the publisher to provide an un DRM'ed PDF then great, but I'm guessing they'll just say "use a windows"
[10:30] <Laney> what does windows or PDF have to do with this?
[10:30] <ali1234> i don't see the problem
[10:30] <ali1234> either they support kindle or not
[10:31] <ali1234> if they do then there's no problem, if they don't windows isn;t going to help you
[10:31] <oimon> the strange thing is that it says kindle is supported: http://llc.lib.overdrive.com/8052AA76-52FD-4468-88C3-6F95BB52CBAC/10/544/en/Default.htm
[10:31] <dwatkins> ah yes, ADE won't upload to the kindle :-/
[10:32] <dwatkins> so can you just get the PDF from there, oimon?
[10:32] <DJones> oimon: From the help on that site Note: Amazon Kindle does not currently support DRM-protected Adobe eBooks.
[10:32] <ali1234> no, kindle is supported for "US libraries only"
[10:32] <dwatkins> or is there some other way to send the book to your Kindle?
[10:32] <oimon> DJones: agh
[10:33] <ali1234> so you can't legally borrow those books and read them on kindle
[10:35] <oimon> what an absolute fail
[10:35] <popey> hmm, is it impossible to get totem to loop a video without writin a shell script?
[10:35] <DJones> I guess from Amazons point of view, they sell the kindle, they sell books, its not in their interests to allow books they've not distributed to be installed to read
[10:36] <ali1234> popey: you can hand craft a playlist file instead
[10:36] <ali1234> i think you can anyway
[10:36] <popey> i see no option to do it
[10:36] <popey> oh, you think you can craft a playlist, gotcha
[10:36] <oimon> DJones: it's also the library's fault for choosing such a convoluted way of doing things
[10:36] <ali1234> yeah you have to write a playlist with a text editor
[10:36] <popey> thats crappy
[10:36] <ali1234> yeah that's totem for you
[10:37] <ali1234> what about "repeat mode" from the menu?
[10:38] <popey> ah
[10:40] <ali1234> seems to work for me
[10:42] <popey> ta
[10:42] <popey> stupid name for a menu option ☺
[10:43] <DJones> oimon: Its probably more the publishers saying that if you want to lend ebooks, they have to be drm encumbered to avoid people just copying it & redistributing it, are there any other methods of encrypting that are suitable
[10:45] <DJones> oimon: Maybe one of these ebook lending libraries may have a different method http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries#United_Kingdom
[10:47] <bigcalm> It's nice when somebody replies to a forum post I made in August 2010 to say that it helped them
[10:47] <hoover> Hey Biggie
[10:47] <bigcalm> My code is still relevant!
[10:47] <bigcalm> Hiya hoovie :)
[10:47]  * hoover received a thank you comment on his wp blog for some lyrics I had written down in 2009 ;-) 
[10:51] <ali1234> hmm it's that time of day when it's too late to have breakfast and too early to have lunch
[10:51] <ali1234> and i;m really hungry
[10:51] <ali1234> wat do?
[10:51] <bigcalm> Have a banana
[10:51] <ali1234> i've run out
[10:51] <bigcalm> Or chew gum
[10:53] <oimon> drink water
[10:53] <oimon> or chew water
[10:53] <ali1234> or drink gum?
[10:53] <bigcalm> I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum
[10:54] <ali1234> who remembers blue bubble gum flavour drink?
[10:54] <ali1234> in the plastic carton with foil top
[10:54] <bigcalm> I remember it existing, I don't remember ever trying it
[10:54] <ali1234> i tried it one time
[10:55] <ali1234> also many times i stamped on the empty containers to make a loud noise
[10:55] <bigcalm> :D
[10:55] <oimon> i did that recently while on the field and my ears were ringing
[10:55] <oimon> = old man
[10:56] <ali1234> those air bubbles you get from ebuyer make a really loud noise if you pop them
[10:57] <ali1234> http://www.sweetsncandy.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=BUBCUP024
[10:57] <ali1234> YES
[10:57] <bigcalm> Odd man
[10:58] <ali1234> and it's barely even more expensive
[10:58] <bigcalm> No Artificial Colours - that shade of blue does not look natural to me
[10:58] <ali1234> LOL
[10:58] <bigcalm> Reminds me of the blue milk in A New Hope
[10:58] <oimon> there's not much in nature that is blue
[10:58] <oimon> that you can eat
[10:59]  * bigcalm ponders having blue wale for lunch
[11:01] <ali1234> Colour: (Brilliant Blue FCF)
[11:01] <ali1234> "It is a synthetic dye produced using aromatic hydrocarbons from petroleum."
[11:01] <danfish> bigcalm: blue whalefor lunch? What's the number for the WWF again? ;)
[11:02] <oimon> there's a man outside my window.
[11:02] <oimon> i'm on the 10th floor
[11:03] <bigcalm> Open the window
[11:03] <bigcalm> Invite him in for tea
[11:03] <danfish> oimon: is he wearing a cape and y-fronts?
[11:03] <oimon> i have the blinds closed, so can only see a silhouette
[11:04] <bigcalm> Creepy
[11:15] <oimon> finally got the book in kindle format
[11:16] <oimon> required wine+ ADE, python for windows, pycrypto for windows, calibre, and calibre intepteub plugin
[11:16] <dwatkins> groovy, how did you manage it oimon?
[11:16] <dwatkins> wow, that's quite convuluted
[11:16] <oimon> i daren't tell the missis how long it just took
[11:16]  * dwatkins gives oimon a cookie
[11:16] <dwatkins> if you don't she might assume it was easy and expect you to do this all the time ;)
[11:16] <oimon> it also means i have to login to my work PC to convert bokos in future
[11:18] <oimon> wine is great when it works
[11:19] <popey> red wine is best
[11:19] <oimon> i've also been playing with cinnamon desktop - anyone wanna see?
[11:19] <davmor2> morning all
[11:19] <davmor2> czajkowski: when you off?
[11:19] <popey> is that the desktop from the past?
[11:20] <popey> or the desktop from the future masquerading as the desktop from the past?
[11:20] <oimon> popey: it's gnome3/gnome shell based
[11:20] <oimon> the latter
[11:20] <oimon> mate is the desktop from the past
[11:20] <popey> thats it
[11:20] <oimon> cinnamon is quite nice
[11:20] <DJones> oimon: Now you need to do a second book to see how long it actually takes now all the software is installed
[11:20] <gord> i did enjoy popey's comment about all these DE's just being different places for icons, i do believe i'll be stealing that and claiming it as my own
[11:20] <oimon> DJones: <5 mins
[11:21] <oimon> i even took a screencast in 1080p format to please popey
[11:22] <popey> what did you use to record it ?
[11:22] <oimon> i discovered that if you mux a ogv file and a ogg music, the resulting length of the ogv is only as long as the shorter of the two
[11:22] <oimon> gtk-recordmydesktop
[11:22] <oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDysd_aBqqo
[11:24] <popey> pretty though it is, I can't see a future for it
[11:24] <popey> where'd the music come from?
[11:24] <oimon> it's in the description
[11:24] <popey> oh
[11:25] <oimon> popey: do you try muxing audio track onto screencast without transcoding?
[11:25] <popey> no
[11:25] <popey> i dont put music them
[11:25] <popey> i talk in them
[11:26] <oimon> either way...ah you use recordmydesktop to collect to audio at the same time
[11:28] <oimon> but it's mostly .js stuff to tweak gnome shell...http://paste.ubuntu.com/794747/
[11:32] <s-fox> Good morning uk
[11:32] <MooDoo> morning
[11:32] <s-fox> Hey MooDoo :)
[11:32] <MooDoo> s-fox: how are ya
[11:32] <s-fox> MooDoo,  https://twitter.com/#!/_Silver_Fox_/status/155248794978627584
[11:32] <s-fox> Creeped out?
[11:32] <popey> no oimon i dont use recordmydesktop
[11:32] <MooDoo> s-fox: yes i just read it on twitter, sent you a DM but as usual i'm ignored ;)
[11:33] <s-fox> How are you  MooDoo  ?
[11:33] <MooDoo> s-fox: very well thank you :) i'd say you're ok, albeit a little creeped out lol
[11:40] <davmor2> Good luck czajkowski hope you feel better missing you already, prod!
[11:40] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:40] <davmor2> hey MooDoo me owld Mucka how's life up t'north
[11:41] <MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad....
[11:41] <s-fox> Hello davmor2  :)
[11:41] <davmor2> MooDoo: I so expected Gromit after crackin then ;)
[11:41] <davmor2> s-fox: How do
[11:42] <s-fox> I'm okay thanks. Just been going over the google analytics on my blog. Haha
[11:42] <s-fox> How are you doing?
[11:42] <davmor2> Fair to middling
[11:42] <oimon> does it show OS breakdown s-fox?
[11:43] <s-fox> oimon,  Yes
[11:43] <oimon> what sort of split do you get win/mac/lin/ios/android/other?
[11:43] <s-fox> Let me work it out, give me 5 mins :D
[11:45] <oimon> sorry :-\
[11:48] <s-fox> oimon,  I have the stats
[11:48] <s-fox> 45% gnu/linux
[11:48] <s-fox> 45% microsoft windows
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> does android count as linux?
[11:48] <s-fox> 9.7% apple mac
[11:49] <s-fox> 0.3% other (ios & android)
[11:50] <s-fox> MartijnVdS ^
[11:57] <oimon> mobile traffic seems v low
[11:58] <oimon> a lot of my browsing is done on the train
[11:58] <oimon> i guess it depends on the type of site really
[11:58] <dwatkins> I like the theme on your blog, s-fox
[11:58] <dwatkins> ...and the little space invader I can destroy
[11:59] <gord> i don't think mobile traffic will ever beat the "bored at the office" traffic ;)
[11:59]  * dwatkins hides his tabs
[11:59] <gord> using a phone then is too obvious
[11:59] <s-fox> Exactly oimon, my blog has no real specific purpose. Just a collection of whatever I am thinking / doing.
[11:59] <s-fox> I like that :D
[11:59] <dwatkins> sounds much like mine, s-fox :)
[12:00] <s-fox> I should also probably puplish another community interview. I have a couple ready to go
[12:00] <s-fox> lol
[12:00] <s-fox> publish
[12:00]  * dwatkins learns who Em is
[12:01] <s-fox> Em caused quite a stir when I asked her if she would like to participate.
[12:01] <dwatkins> oh yes?
[12:01] <s-fox> It got a reaction, check the comments. ;)
[12:01] <dwatkins> I joined the channel, but it was very busy and moved too fast for me to multitask and participate
[12:02] <dwatkins> heh
[12:02] <dwatkins> quite the diverse collection of reactions, yes
[12:03] <s-fox> dwatkins,  Yes indeed.
[12:04] <s-fox> That channel has over 100 people in it at any given point in time, all with ubuntu in common. And it is not official. That is surely a part of the community.
[12:08] <s-fox> So, today is friday. Anyone got plans for the weekend ?
[12:08] <MooDoo> clear out the garage, take laddo to the pictures and take lots of photos
[12:10] <oimon> hang on, what's club-ubuntu?
[12:10] <christel> ahaha
[12:10] <popey> ho ho ho
[12:10] <s-fox> lol
[12:10] <oimon> is it real?
[12:10] <s-fox> very
[12:10] <christel> fsvo real ;)
[12:10] <popey> its an irc channel
[12:10] <popey> how did you hear about it oimon ?
[12:10] <s-fox> It is borderline nsfw at the best of times.
[12:11] <oimon> popey: i'm just reading why the interview on s-fox blog caused consternation
[12:11] <oimon> "for those that do not know Em is the founder of the popular IRC channel ##club-ubuntu."
[12:11] <oimon> never heard of it
[12:11] <popey> s-fox interviewed em?
[12:11] <s-fox> Indeed I did popey
[12:12] <popey> *boggle*
[12:12] <christel> oimon: when the channel was first created, Em created a bit of controversy by mass-inviting users from a variety of channels (primarily ubuntu ones, although also channels completely unrelated to ubuntu)
[12:12] <christel> not everyone took too kindly to the unsolicited invites ;)
[12:13] <oimon> is it publicly logged?
[12:13] <s-fox> Unlikely.
[12:13] <Myrtti> no
[12:14]  * oimon wonders if there's a joke he's missing
[12:17] <christel> hehe nah -- the approach she had when creating the channel was just one which resulted in a lot of complaints from users, to the ubuntu ircc/cc, freenode staff, etc. and ate up a lot of time for many people, the channel as it is now may be a nice place :)
[12:17] <s-fox> christel, I would say it is lighthearted banter. It is actually quite fun sometimes
[12:18] <christel> :)
[12:18] <s-fox> But certainly you could not guarantee everything discussed would be safe for work
[12:19] <s-fox> which is why it is ## and not #
[12:20] <Seeker`> no, that isn't why it is ##
[12:20] <bigcalm> ## because of the ubuntu bit
[12:21] <bigcalm> Otherwise lugradio would have to be ##
[12:21] <s-fox> i always though # is for official channels. :)
[12:21] <bigcalm> Yes
[12:21] <s-fox>  /s/though/thought
[12:21] <Seeker`> it is ## because it was a trollpit when it was formed, and the only thing that the IRCC could do to get rid of it was to not allow them to use the #ubuntu namespace
[12:21] <christel> she actually did start it as a # channel initially, but agreed to move it to ## namespace as she didn't have a claim to the name
[12:21] <s-fox> and by that, subject to the ubuntu code of conduct
[12:21] <popey> there are some people there who have a big issue with the ircc and cc
[12:22] <popey> i know some people there can be _very_ hateful
[12:22] <DJones> More that ## channels is for official channels associated with a product & normally owned by organisation as with the ubuntu channels, the same logic is behind it being ##window because its not an official Microsoft channel
[12:22] <christel> iirc the channel had a handful of re-names first, as she also tried to use channels which would fall under the ubuntu namespace initially
[12:22] <bigcalm> There are other irc networks that they can use if they don't agree to the rules
[12:22] <Seeker`> christel: pretty much
[12:22] <oimon> people are well behaved in u-uk
[12:23] <christel> those months could have been the best ones of my life you know...
[12:23] <bigcalm> Heh
[12:23] <bigcalm> 'style' => 'width:630px;height:18em;'
[12:23] <bigcalm> Erm
[12:23] <oimon> interesting how the number of users in u-uk is nearly always constant
[12:23] <popey> some people just need a pit to play in
[12:23] <bigcalm> Excuse me
[12:23] <s-fox> +1 popey
[12:24] <popey> we are under no obligation to provide the pit though
[12:24] <Seeker`> bigcalm: She didn't want to be on another network
[12:24] <davmor2> popey: There's a coal pit up the road we can send them there to play :D
[12:25] <s-fox> My grandfather use to work up the pit davmor2
[12:25] <DJones> in comparison, maybe the sounder list springs to mind
[12:25] <davmor2> s-fox: down a pit surely ;)
[12:25] <bigcalm> Oh my
[12:25] <ali1234> sounder moved to yahoo groups
[12:25] <ali1234> i think
[12:25] <christel> emma had passion, but lacked direction -- i think that if she had wanted to, and there had been people available to mentor her a bit she could have been moulded into a positive contributor -- but at the time she ended up locking horns with too many people i think :)
[12:25] <ali1234> or google groups
[12:25] <christel> (but then, i am forever an optimist)
[12:25] <popey> indeed
[12:25] <popey> bike-shed
[12:26]  * bigcalm hugs christel
[12:26]  * christel hugs bigcalm 
[12:26] <ali1234> i was hoping that they would just start posting the same stuff on ubuntu general mailing lists
[12:26] <ali1234> would have served you right
[12:26] <davmor2> christel: I wouldn't hug bigcalm you don't know where he has been ;)
[12:26] <popey> hah
[12:26] <s-fox> lol
[12:27] <bigcalm> From my window, I can see a neighbour's cat meowing for food but nobody is home. It breaks my heart
[12:27] <popey> i would have liked to see that too
[12:27] <popey> then they'd get removed and realise this is the norm
[12:27] <ali1234> of course
[12:27]  * bigcalm kippers davmor2
[12:27] <ali1234> because anyone who disagrees with the glorious leader is a troll right?
[12:27] <popey> ooo kippers
[12:27] <popey> hahah
[12:27] <christel> bigcalm: aw go feed the cat!
[12:27]  * popey bends down on one knee before the glorious leader
[12:28] <s-fox> All glory to thel hypno toad
[12:28] <bigcalm> christel: I do have a key to their house for feeding their cat when they are away. But I'm sure they've just popped to the shops
[12:28] <davmor2> christel: see straight away bigcalm  is carrying kippers, so now you will smell all fishy
[12:28] <christel> KITTY WANTS SALMON
[12:28] <christel> feed it! you know you want to
[12:28] <bigcalm> Haha
[12:28] <christel> davmor2: ew :(
[12:29] <bigcalm> Tell a lie. I can see movement in their house. Just kitty can't be heard
[12:29] <davmor2> yeah bigcalm rather than sitting there throw it the kippers you just kippered me with
[12:29] <bigcalm> Think I'll pick up some fish for tea tonight
[12:30] <bigcalm> Smoked mackerel from Waitrose
[12:30] <hoover> to choc or not to choc, 'tis the question...
[12:31] <s-fox> Is that a question? :)
[12:32] <christel> mmmackerel
[12:33] <s-fox> davmor2,  Yes, you are correct. Down, not up.
[12:33] <oimon> sent an email to my library about their poxy ebook lending service
[12:33] <davmor2> christel: See how he turns more into a fish monger by the minute :D
[12:34] <s-fox> oimon,  Is email your first line of contact when complaining?
[12:34]  * s-fox is a fan of a phone call still.
[12:34] <christel> you're quite right davmor2, you may have to protect me against his fishy ways
[12:34] <ali1234> IRC is my first line of complaint
[12:36] <ali1234> anyone know where i can get some 7/0.2mm equipment wire for cheap/free?
[12:36] <ali1234> preferably lots of different colours
[12:36] <davmor2> ali1234: NO
[12:36] <ali1234> i don't mind if it's used
[12:55] <davmor2> s-fox: when hungry I always recommend the same thing FOOD!
[12:55] <s-fox> how do you know i am hungry?
[12:57] <davmor2> s-fox: Well it's either that I'm stood behind you, or I saw your tweet :P
[12:57] <s-fox> oh, okay :)
[12:57] <s-fox> i thought i had another stalker. lol
[12:58] <davmor2> s-fox: No your safe twitter it was :)
[13:04] <s-fox> Back in a bit. Food
[13:07] <daubers> ali1234: Ask you local hackspace?
[13:14] <awilkins> Question ; I have two laptops with Bluetooth adapters ; they are on separate network segments but I still want to use Synergy across them. Can I create an ethernet link across the bluetooth adapters?
[13:14] <awilkins> One is running Windows XP, for extra annoyingness
[13:15] <ali1234> awilkins: use synergy-bluetooth ftw
[13:15] <ali1234> i wrote it so it's excellent
[13:15] <ali1234> oh wait, windows xp? not supported
[13:15] <ali1234> you can use pan networking to make a IP link and run synergy on that
[13:16] <ali1234> but good luck getting that to work on windows
[13:16] <awilkins> Yeah, that was the bit I was thinking might be hard
[13:17] <awilkins> My hopes were roused with the "Synergy-bluetooth" thing
[13:17] <ali1234> well you could try to port it
[13:17] <ali1234> it shouldn't be that hard
[13:17] <awilkins> Just got a "special purchase" workstation at work
[13:18] <awilkins> It's got 64-bit Win7 on it, but I'm running Ubuntu on it anyway
[13:18] <awilkins> ICT won't "bless" it into the "nice" network because they can't get their crapware suite for 64-bit Windows
[13:19] <awilkins> ali1234, Sources for synergy-bluetooth?
[13:20] <awilkins> Is it a patch of the normal Synergy sources, or a separate project?
[13:20] <ali1234> it's a fork
[13:21] <ali1234> https://fsckyou.info/svn/synergy-bluetooth/
[13:21] <ali1234> i should probably move that to github or something
[13:22] <ali1234> one of the nice things about it is roaming "just works"
[13:22] <awilkins> Laptop as the server?
[13:22] <awilkins> Move around, workstations do your bidding?
[13:22] <ali1234> no the laptop roams
[13:22] <ali1234> the workstations run the server
[13:22] <awilkins> Aha
[13:22] <ali1234> it does service discovery protocol
[13:23] <ali1234> but it will only allowed paired devices to see the service and connect
[13:23] <ali1234> so basically you run the server and make a config file, pair the laptop, then run the client with zero configuration
[13:24] <awilkins> I'm torn between Bazaar and git for interacting with old SVN repositories
[13:24] <ali1234> and if you go out of range of one, and in range of another, it just starts working
[13:24] <ali1234> you could run the server on the laptop i guess, if you wanted to control lots of machines without a kb/mouse but with a monitor
[13:25] <awilkins> My new mobo has a BT adapter in it, actually
[13:25] <awilkins> If I port this to Windows I can do the same truck
[13:25] <awilkins> *trick ; instead of using RDP onto the Laptop (which is what I do currently
[13:25] <awilkins> The desktop has better screens than the laptop though
[13:26] <ali1234> i use the laptop like a second monitor / external hard drive all in one :)
[13:26] <ali1234> so it runs the client, and each workstation i use runs a server
[13:27] <ali1234> anyway there's no real reason it can't be ported to windows, other than i don't know how to do bluetooth on windows
[13:28] <ali1234> bluetooth sockets are virtually identical to IP packets at an abstract level
[13:28] <ali1234> they both use unix sockets API on linux
[13:28] <awilkins> ali1234, Heh, my C family coding is pretty lame
[13:28] <ali1234> so it was easy to convert it
[13:28] <ali1234> the SDP stuff was a bit harder
[13:28] <awilkins> ali1234, I restrict myself to very small patches to things like rcs and tidy.
[13:29] <ali1234> no way
[13:29] <ali1234> if it doesn't do what i want i will rip it apart and rebuild it
[13:29] <ali1234> i don't care what language it's written in as long as it's not perl or java
[13:31] <awilkins> Bah, Launchpad has no real sources for Synergy in it
[13:31] <ali1234> synergy is largely unmaintained these days
[13:32] <awilkins> The repo has a commit 13 days ago... but I do think it's quite stable
[13:35]  * awilkins git clones the main repo
[13:36] <awilkins> Do you know which tag you took for your patches?
[13:47] <awilkins> ali1234, Eek, DBus
[13:47] <awilkins> ali1234, Not sure how easy that will be to port to Windows...
[13:55] <daubers> 2\o/ My book has shipped
[13:59]  * daubers wonders when his new laptop will arrive
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> daubers: late May
[14:00] <daubers> :(
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm assuming Royal Mail here
[14:00] <daubers> I'll hopefully be at the wrong address by then!
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> they've already lost 2 pieces of mail for me this year. Mail from all around the world gets to my home in 2-3 weeks
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> RM? 2 months. If at all.
[14:01] <daubers> I quite like RM, at least they leave a card if they can't deliver and the sorting office opens at 7:30 so I can colelct on the way to work
[14:02] <s-fox> Whoops, finger slipped
[14:02] <s-fox> :)
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Sure, in the UK it'll be fine.. but internationally *shudder*
[14:03] <daubers> MartijnVdS: All my international stuff goes by the office couriers
[14:03] <daubers> Seems to get there in a reasonable time frame
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Couriers are fine. Packages are also fine. It's "normal" mail (letters, letterbox-sized packages) that don't get here
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> and only from the UK
[14:06] <daubers> MartijnVdS: We courier them too
[14:06] <daubers> It's cheaper (weirdly)
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> ah they haven't "opened up the market" for that here yet
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> well for business mail they have, but not for private persons
[14:13] <andylockran> are there any transit issues to Europe
[14:13] <andylockran> via the interwebs
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: Hello, this is Europe calling!
[14:15] <andylockran> wahey!
[14:28] <hoover> cheers all, have a great weekend
[14:48] <e1ectr0nauts> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxdqt6PZly1qaqsoco1_500.gif
[15:01] <DJones> oimon: (And any other kindle owners) Something to watch out for http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/06/amazon_compass_subscription/
[15:08] <oimon> linux journal keep sending me free e-issues
[15:17] <andylockran> that's nice of them
[15:23] <DJones> Heh http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16440126
[15:24] <DJones> Seems quite a good idea http://codeyear.com/
[15:31] <gord> i look forward to see the drawings he makes the little turtle do
[15:42] <oimon> got a response from the library about my ebook query
[15:42] <oimon> I'm afraid this is outside our control. Our e-library service is provided by the American company, Overdrive. Amazon has no current agreement to make the service compatible within the UK. However- Overdrive have recently begun adding Kindle compatibility to all of the U.S. public and school libraries in its network. so we can only wait and hope that they extend this to the UK.
[15:45] <monsterwizard> I am absolutely convinced
[15:45] <monsterwizard> Ubuntu can replace windows for normal users
[15:49] <sagaci> monsterwizard: great, now what
[15:58] <monsterwizard> Now we sit here and do nothing
[15:58] <monsterwizard> OR! We make it more complicated so it's still cool
[15:58] <monsterwizard> to use linux
[16:20] <jutnux> Hi all
[16:27] <oimon> bob holness is dead
[16:27] <daubers> Long live the king?
[16:28] <oimon> do-do-do-do-dooo-do-do-dooo-do-do-doooooooo-dododododo
[16:28] <oimon> (that's the blockbuster tune)
[16:28]  * dwatkins hums the countdown ditty
[16:37] <danfish> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_RAD6000 33Mhz clock rate and 128mb ram @ $300,000
[16:37] <danfish> that thing must zing!
[16:44]  * popey remembers again that he wants a VT100
[16:45] <bigcalm> Will you code on it?
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Can a python god explain this syntax to me please?
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> myVar = entry.discount and entry.discount or 0.00
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> (I kind of know *what* it does, but am not really sure *why*)
[16:51] <gord> thanks to another excellent shipment of candy from candy japan, i'm now sucking on a pokemon themed lollypop with poprocks :)
[16:57] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: seems like the "entry.discount and" bit is kinda redundant
[17:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Yeah - I don't really understand it at all.
[17:07] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: that's not a piece of Michael Bloomberg's first code is it? :D
[17:07] <danfish> 15:23 < DJones> Heh http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16440126
[17:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> maybe danfish, maybe
[17:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> But anyway. IT'S FRIDAY!!!
[17:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is really funny. Don't car if true or not frankly: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2135823/ed-miliband-shames-twitter
[17:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/car/care
[17:11] <danfish> it's officially beer o'clock. Down tools everyone and sup away.
[17:13] <danfish> I think it's a curry sort of night
[17:13] <jutnux> Haha.
[17:14] <jutnux> I have burgers for tea tonight.
[17:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will be having twice cooked roast pork chinese style with stir-fired veg rice.
[17:16] <christel> dinner at yours tonight!
[17:17]  * DJones will be having buffet
[17:17]  * daubers is going out somewhere for dinner tonight
[17:18] <daubers> can't remember where
[17:19] <christel> haha
[17:20] <danfish> Jamdani Hash for me I think
[17:23] <jutnux> TheOpenSourcerer: I have stir fry tomorrow.
[17:29] <stuphi> Steak and ale stew with dumplings
[17:36] <jutnux> Dumplings <3
[17:40]  * mattt wants chinese dumplings now :(
[17:40] <mattt> dammit guys
[18:55] <zleap> hello
[19:01] <jutnux> Howdy
[19:02] <zleap> how are you?
[19:03] <zleap> local YMCA manager said he will try and see if he can promote ubuntu-youth to some of the people at the local YMCA.  so my contacting people is starting to pay off :)
[19:09] <jutnux> What is YMCA
[19:09] <jutnux> and I am good ta
[19:17] <zleap> young mens charity association or something
[19:17] <zleap> or what ever it stands for
[19:23] <jutnux> ah
[19:24] <AlanBell> christian
[19:24] <christel> young mens christian association indeed
[19:26] <zleap> ah
[19:27] <zleap> anyway the manager said he will see what he can do,  and he also said he has used ubuntu a little
[19:27] <zleap> which really helps
[19:31] <daftykins> hey all
[19:31] <daftykins> can anyone recommend UK based hosted MS Exchange email solutions companies?
[19:32] <daftykins> looking at http://www.simplymailsolutions.com and know someone who's with fasthosts right now
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> Hahaha. Haha. Ha.
[19:32] <daftykins> mm? :)
[19:33] <daftykins> i'd love to be pushing google apps for this client but they intend to use Outlook on a mac
[19:35] <Azelphur> This is so awesome, someone made Wipeout IRL using quantum levitation http://www.wimp.com/controlledlevitation/
[19:35] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: ? :)
[19:35] <Azelphur> I want one :o
[19:36] <popey> Azelphur: fake
[19:36] <Azelphur> popey: it is?
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have no idea about Exchange in the UK
[19:36] <popey> its a Sony viral ad for wipeout
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's still cool
[19:36] <popey> it is
[19:36] <Azelphur> popey: fake as in it's not really quantum levitation?
[19:36] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws6AAhTw7RA
[19:36] <ali1234> quantum levitation is real
[19:36] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I've seen that, I know it's real
[19:36] <ali1234> sony could have made that video for real by hiring some scientists
[19:37] <ali1234> but they hired some CG animators instead
[19:37] <ali1234> everything in the video could be done for real
[19:37] <ali1234> it just isn't
[19:37] <daftykins> :D
[19:37] <Azelphur> yea, it's fake
[19:38] <ali1234> the thing is though it would make for a boring game
[19:38] <ali1234> it would be like scalectrix - no steering required
[19:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: true, just thought perhaps quantum levitation was moving forward a bit
[19:38] <jutnux> Scaletrix was so good.
[19:39] <ali1234> moving forwards how?
[19:39] <ali1234> everything in the video has already been done before
[19:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: true *shrug*
[19:39] <ali1234> just look at this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lmtbLu5nxw&feature=related
[19:41] <daftykins> nobody have an idea then?
[19:41] <daftykins> hosted Exchange in the UK, dirty MS i know...
[19:41] <ali1234> an idea?
[19:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: oO, fun :D
[19:41] <ali1234> every exchange hosting company that i've experienced has done a terrible job
[19:42] <ali1234> but people tend to only call me when stuff doesn't work
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: my employer offers Exchange, but we're in .nl
[19:42] <daftykins> :)
[19:43] <daftykins> hmm, not sure if location that close is too big a deal now
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> http://www.xs4all.nl/zakelijk/hostedexchange/
[19:43] <daftykins> 2GB boxes, ouch
[20:28] <awilkins> daftykins, I think we use Cable and Wireless, but our Exchange server is a bit larger than yours :-)
[20:29] <awilkins> Not sure how much disk space we need but napkins maths would suggest it's around 200TB
[20:30] <awilkins> Which is clearly silly, what with duplicate mails and all
[20:35] <daftykins> awilkins: :D
[20:35] <daftykins> erk 200TB of email
[20:35] <daftykins> nasty
[20:36] <awilkins> I'm sure it's less. That's just what you get when you multiply my quota by our number of users
[20:36] <daftykins> the irony with hosted exchange setups with small mailboxes is users end up leaving auto archive on / having to stash things locally, which defeats the purpose of having it all online and accessible :D
[20:36] <awilkins> daftykins, Indeed, I really wish they'd just slapped a big wodge of cash in Googles face
[20:36] <daftykins> :)
[20:37] <awilkins> daftykins, We had public IMAP before we went to Exchange
[20:37] <awilkins> Now the only rich client you can use without signing into VPN is Outlook
[20:37] <daftykins> i'd like to have offered google apps for this client but she's got macs and you can't use google sync with outlook for mac
[20:37] <daftykins> ooh-err
[20:38] <awilkins> If Google can allow me nearly 8GB of quota for nothing more than furtling through my mail trying to sell me toenail clippers, then I shudder to think what they could arrange for say £50 per user per year
[20:39] <daftykins> certainly their google apps for business gives you 25GB for £33/yr/mailbox
[20:39] <daftykins> so yeah - i bet that would give some :D
[20:39] <awilkins> Hah, my quota is 200MB and as you know, Exchange search sucks big hairy ones
[20:39] <daftykins> :)
[20:39] <daftykins> right i have to head off to town - thanks for your input awilkins !
[20:40] <daftykins> have a good weekend all o/
[20:42] <jacobw> boo
[20:43] <MiLLo> ubuntu 11.10 what is the best software for burning images to cd?
[20:44] <MiLLo> iso type images, not picture/jpg images that is (just to clear any confusion)
[20:44] <jacobw> brasero is easy, k3b is powerful, wodim is command line
[20:45] <MiLLo> k3b - is it hard to use?
[20:45] <jacobw> hmm, i suspect brasero may have just as many features as k3b now
[20:46] <jacobw> its not hard to use, its part of kde, which means it isn't the default installation as brasero is
[20:46] <awilkins> Plus I think it's installed by default
[20:46] <awilkins> (brasero)
[20:46] <jacobw> short answer is brasero, i was being somewhat verbose
[20:46] <awilkins> Simultyping
[20:46] <MiLLo> haha
[20:46] <MiLLo> ok
[20:46] <MiLLo> brasero it is
[20:46] <MiLLo> so long as it works - that's fine, need to install clonezilla
[20:46] <MiLLo> as apparently i need to reinstall grub
[20:46] <jacobw> why?
[20:46] <MiLLo> (bootloader)
[20:46] <MiLLo> somehow
[20:47] <MiLLo> i managed to turn my windows partition non-bootable
[20:47] <jacobw> how?
[20:47] <Supermanintights> not a clue
[20:47] <Supermanintights> that's what ##windows told me from my BSOD error codes
[20:48] <jacobw> did they say reinstall the bootloader or reinstall grub?
[20:48] <awilkins> How does Windows BSOD ... if it can't boot
[20:48] <Supermanintights> erm
[20:48] <jacobw> very good point :p

[20:48] <Supermanintights> meh
[20:48] <Supermanintights> i click windows (safe mode, normal, last known good config), and it shows the windows logo, flashes BSOD, then restarts
[20:48] <jacobw> if it BSODs then its not the bootloader
[20:49] <Supermanintights> fml
[20:49] <jacobw> correct the ntfs partition with gparted
[20:49] <Supermanintights> conflicting info on a topic that's completely over my head
[20:49] <awilkins> Sounds more like it's sulking because you replaced the bootloader....
[20:49] <Supermanintights> if i gave you the link to my BSOD - would that help?
[20:49] <awilkins> "Waah, I'm not the only OS on this box    #BSOD#"
[20:50] <jacobw> i'm glad i'm a windows admin with upcoming EFI fun
[20:50] <awilkins> Checklist : are you using any kind of disk encryption in Windows (Bitlocker, 3rd party, SafeBoot, etc)
[20:50] <Supermanintights> erm
[20:50] <Supermanintights> basically
[20:50] <Supermanintights> i installed about 3 drivers
[20:51] <Supermanintights> installed my gfx driver
[20:51] <Supermanintights> and windows hasn't booted since
[20:51] <awilkins> Hermm.
[20:51] <jacobw> cause and effect
[20:51] <awilkins> Drivers should now be the only thing that *causes* BSOD apart from hardware failure, and really, only video drivers at that
[20:51] <zleap> EFI Is the new boot thing right that is tied in to windows
[20:51] <Supermanintights> safe mode just BSODS, and so does LKGC
[20:51] <jacobw> yes zleap
[20:51] <awilkins> AFAIK all the other drivers now run in userspace on Windows (could be wrong..)
[20:52]  * jacobw think awilkins is correct
[20:52] <jacobw> my answer to windows problems is 'use ubuntu' :)
[20:52] <zleap> yeah could be interesting if the OSS community complain about anti compeitive practice
[20:52] <jacobw> debian, suse, fedora or arch :|
[20:52] <Supermanintights> so what do you guys recommend i do then to fix it - this is my error code: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PgHfcj-VBP0/TwdTYVNzkwI/AAAAAAAAAJI/smJEEaJBoH4/s640/20120106_200028.jpg
[20:52] <awilkins> zleap, I think there are already plenty of complaints in the community
[20:53] <zleap> yeah
[20:53] <zleap> it will cause a lot of problems given Linux is used a lot in science and non home environments
[20:54] <zleap> like universities which may build mini linux clusters
[20:54] <awilkins> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/embeddedwindowscomponents/thread/09aae527-ff6d-4003-9e59-962d73d409ed/   http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms940177(v=winembedded.5).aspx
[20:54] <jacobw> Supermanintights: use gparted to check for errors on the ntfs volume and correct them
[20:54] <Supermanintights> there's a red ! on my windows partition straight away
[20:55]  * Supermanintights thinks jacobw is onto something...
[20:55] <awilkins> zleap, It will have a chilling effect on trying alternate OSs - simply because it will be impossible to boot a LiveCD without first disabling a feature that a) may not have a disable switch b) requires you to go into BIOS c) is probably labelled "DON'T DISABLE THIS OR YOU'LL BE HAXX0RED!!!!!"
[20:55] <lartza> Supermanintights: Maybe your harddrive is breaking apart :P
[20:56] <jacobw> hmm, that dicussion suggests to check the bios for ahci specifics, i would do that.
[20:56] <awilkins> Supermanintights, 7B is "missing  a component required to boot windows"
[20:56]  * Supermanintights hopes lartza gets to 99% on the shrink and then it fails
[20:56] <lartza> NOOO
[20:56] <lartza> I want to install Arch :/
[20:56] <jacobw> although i can't imagine anything in the bios would have changed with your knowledge unless you've upgraded it
[20:56] <zleap> awilkins, yeah,  who exactly do we complain to ?
[20:56] <lartza> Supermanintights: There is no progress actually and even the window is not responding :P
[20:57] <awilkins> http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findbyerrormessage/a/stop0x0000007b.htm
[20:57] <jacobw> OEMs
[20:57] <zleap> ok
[20:57] <Supermanintights> ok, jacobw - it came up with an error message when i tried to fix using gparted
[20:57] <zleap> so just e-mail them and tell em we don't want this
[20:57] <Supermanintights> awilkins, any suggestions on how i can undo whatever I did? or should i just reinstall windows?
[20:57] <awilkins> zleap, Yeah, MS put the ball in the OEM court by demanding that they enable Secure UEFI Boot to get a "Designed for Windows 8" badge
[20:58] <jacobw> ok, you mentioned you installed a graphics driver and two others, which were?
[20:58] <Supermanintights> gfx, network, and touchpad drivers
[20:58] <lartza> zleap: Make a movement not to buy their products or crack their servers, has way better effect :P
[20:58] <Supermanintights> maybe one or two more drivers - they were the main ones
[20:58] <jacobw> lartza: why arch?
[20:58] <zleap> hmm,  so if that isn't anti competitive practice than what is
[20:58] <awilkins> zleap, "A security feature" (for the media cartels more than the users)
[20:58] <lartza> jacobw: I would really ask "Why not?"
[20:58] <Supermanintights> and the only one i installed during the last boot/restart was the gfx driver (nvidia)
[20:58] <zleap> perhaps write to the EU people and compl;ain adn get em to punisj MS properly as in BAN microsoft
[20:59] <jacobw> lartza: agreed
[20:59] <zleap> like SOPA via the back door
[20:59] <jacobw> :|
[20:59] <jacobw> just don't buy from those OEMs
[20:59] <lartza> jacobw: I tried Gentoo and even going "back" to reguler distro's, Ubuntu and Fedora but nothing fit :P
[21:00] <awilkins> Supermanintights, did you try "start up with last known good config" ?
[21:00] <jutnux> zleap that was an unholy touch typing fail there ;)
[21:00] <zleap> yeah
[21:00] <zleap> i have a dodgy keyboard
[21:00] <jacobw> lartza: what do you want to ubuntu/debian/fedora/suse don't have?
[21:00] <jacobw> lartza: have you tried debian yet?
[21:00] <Supermanintights> awilkins, yup, tried that, and safe mode
[21:00] <lartza> jacobw: Never actually :)
[21:00] <jutnux> Apparently you will be able to disable secure boot.
[21:00] <awilkins> zleap, Model M : accept no substitutes (except Unicomp customizer and Cherry G80-3000)
[21:01] <lartza> jacobw: I don't want Ubuntu's...
[21:01] <zleap> ok
[21:01] <lartza> newbiness :P
[21:01] <lartza> They removed synaptic? I mean what the heck
[21:01] <lartza> Was it synapcit? the package manager
[21:01] <lartza> *synaptic
[21:01] <Supermanintights> just download it, takes 2 seconds from the software centre
[21:01] <jacobw> who uses synaptic? just apt-*
[21:01] <lartza> jacobw: Packages are compiled with every dependency possible, I love AUR(like gentoo ports if you haven't used Arch)
[21:01] <jutnux> lartza: sudo apt-get install synaptic
[21:01] <awilkins> jutnux, Yes, you can disable secure boot - but the damage is done -    Joe Sixpack : "Whut, I have to press a key and fiddle in my BIOS and disable a security feature to boot this Live whatchamadiddly? Sounds like too much work to me...."
[21:02] <lartza> jacobw: Yea Arch doesn't have graphical GUI for package managing either :P
[21:02] <jacobw> you don't need a GUI for package management
[21:02] <lartza> jacobw: Just they don't start making these music stores and easy install managers either...
[21:02] <jutnux> awilkins: Indeed. Microsoft clearly think that Linux is a threat
[21:02] <jutnux> rather than cancer..
[21:02] <lartza> jacobw: Ubuntu feels bloated to me
[21:03] <jacobw> i'm quite happy apt-get and the software center available with ubuntu
[21:03] <lartza> jacobw: Before I switched from it I did use the minimal cd and then build up from that but...
[21:03] <lartza> jacobw: Also seems software updates are slower than Arch and there is no AUR<3
[21:03] <directhex> *cough*
[21:03] <awilkins> lartza, Use Windows XP with McAfee, full disk encryption, and Novell Zenworks on it for a week. Then Ubuntu feels like you drank a gallon of syrup-of-figs to wash down the senna tablets.
[21:03] <directhex> the reason for secure boot is an attack on GRUB, not on linux
[21:04] <lartza> There are thousands of third party repos for Ubuntu but mhh...
[21:04] <lartza> awilkins: I'd prefer not :P
[21:04] <lartza> awilkins: I'd add 64-bit Windows XP to that, does it even support those two programs then? :D
[21:05] <directhex> the most popular mechanism to use pirated windows these days is via a BIOS emulator, which fools windows into thinking it's on a different PC which was already activated. these BIOS emulators are booted from a non-Windows bootloader (i.e. GRUB)
[21:05] <awilkins> lartza, I don't think so - they won't let us have Win64 on our network because it won't support them
[21:05] <lartza> awilkins: Even Vista or 7?
[21:05] <jacobw> debian is more advanced that people realise
[21:05] <awilkins> Not even 7
[21:05] <lartza> Well 7 atleast Vista isn't that good either
[21:05] <lartza> Nice...
[21:05] <jacobw> it can use a BSD or even a Hurd kernel :|
[21:05] <lartza> jacobw: I know, it even has the rapid update repo thing :)
[21:05] <directhex> there's no 64-bit XP. there's a rebranded version of server 2003. xp64 is not xp in any way, shape or form
[21:06] <awilkins> We have a special purchase of laptops with Win7 64 on them for big Java dev that we can't connect to our local source repositories ...
[21:06] <jacobw> dpkg/apt is far ahead of rpm/yum and every other packaging system
[21:06]  * awilkins goes to buy food
[21:06] <directhex> jacobw, curiously enough, the opposite is true, which is why it's good.
[21:06] <lartza> awilkins: What about when you have laptops that come with 7 but your company downgrades them to Vista BUsiness? :)
[21:06] <lartza> jacobw: Even pacman?
[21:07] <jacobw> directhex: the opposite of what? dpkg/apt superiority?
[21:07] <jacobw> lartza: especially pacman
[21:07] <lartza> ;)
[21:07] <directhex> jacobw, dpkg is far less sophisticated than rpm, which is why apt is better than yum
[21:07] <lartza> Pacman is fine, it works :P
[21:08] <lartza> Also way easier to package for it than deb's I would say
[21:08] <lartza> Though I haven't packaged deb's in a couple years
[21:08] <jacobw> directhex: interesting reasoning
[21:09] <lartza> I like that reasoning for latest Ubuntu realeases :P
[21:09] <Supermanintights> if i reinstall windows with ubuntu installed - will it affect my ubuntu partition?
[21:10] <lartza> Supermanintights: Nope unles it's XP
[21:10] <lartza> which might refuse to detect any partitions if there are ext ones :P
[21:10] <lartza> Supermanintights: It will only affect MBR causing the need to reinstall GRUB
[21:10] <Supermanintights> ok
[21:11] <Supermanintights> luckily i have irc on my phone now, so i'll be able to say help when i screw it up
[21:11] <directhex> jacobw, dpkg has a much easier job, because the package relationships are far more simple. simple package name/version relationships. rpm has dependencies on package names, versions, filenames, versioned symbols, or arbitrary metadata
[21:11] <lartza> Supermanintights: Just watch what it formats and when and keep the powerplug on the other hand :P
[21:11] <Supermanintights> meh
[21:11] <lartza> After all it's Windows :D
[21:11] <Supermanintights> i may borrow my bro's laptop to get real time irc help
[21:11] <lartza> Supermanintights: Your phone irc is via SMS? ;)
[21:13] <zleap> is there a repair windows option in vista / win 7
[21:13] <jacobw> directhex: i think the seperation of features between rpm and yum is unclear
[21:13] <zleap> as last time i had to reinstall i used the repair option and it left the mbr intact
[21:13] <lartza> zleap: There is atleast for the bootloader but don't know if it can repair the system
[21:13] <zleap> xp did
[21:14] <lartza> zleap: Also on XP for some reason the options depended on what kind of disc you had...
[21:14] <zleap> xp pro
[21:14] <jutnux> http://signature.microsoft.com/Default.aspx
[21:14] <jutnux> Lolololol
[21:14] <zleap> well there are two options drops to a dos command line,  but the option on the next screen for repair seems more useful
[21:15] <jacobw> directhex: its sounds as if yum does less work and apt and rpm provides higher level functions than dpkg
[21:15] <jacobw> s/and/than
[21:15] <zleap> xp is annoying when it wants to reboot after changes, but i am playing a game,  if i had gone afk it would just reboot and lose the game i was playing
[21:17] <Supermanintights> lartza, nope, irc app - samsung galaxy note
[21:20] <lartza> Supermanintights: That is real time then :P
[21:20] <Supermanintights> you know what i mean
[21:20] <lartza> Supermanintights: ;) maybe
[21:20] <lartza> Samsung <3 (Galaxy S II
[21:20] <lartza> *)
[21:20] <Supermanintights> note is better than sII
[21:20] <Supermanintights> faster, bigger, better
[21:21] <jacobw> i like the idea of the galaxy note
[21:21] <lartza> Bigger yea
[21:21] <lartza> TOO big...
[21:22] <Supermanintights> it's really not too big
[21:22] <Supermanintights> once you use it, you adapt to the size really quickly, it fits in your pocket great, and it's lighter than the iphone
[21:22] <lartza> SGS2 <3
[21:23] <lartza> :D
[21:23] <lartza> Used the first one before that loved it too
[21:23] <lartza> WHOA nice
[21:23] <lartza> the shrink finished
[21:23] <lartza> Now I have 500 GiB for data partition and 397,17 for Linux
[21:23] <Supermanintights> you have 400gb for linux?
[21:24] <lartza> Supermanintights: 397,17 GB
[21:24] <Supermanintights> close enough...
[21:24] <lartza> 500 windows, 500 data and media, 397,17 Linux
[21:24] <Supermanintights> why do you need that much? i've apparently done overkill with 50gb windows, and 25 linux
[21:25] <lartza> Supermanintights: Windows is currently at 475 Gigabytes
[21:26] <lartza> Supermanintights: Around 380 without my media
[21:26] <lartza> Linux... just fills the rest :P
[21:26] <Supermanintights> what on earth do you have taking up that much space?
[21:26] <lartza> I don't necessarily need I just have that much space available
[21:26] <Supermanintights> oh, how much are you using then?
[21:26] <lartza> Supermanintights: Cyrrently 475 Gigabytes
[21:27] <Supermanintights> what's on there though, that's a crazy high amount for software
[21:27] <lartza> Supermanintights: Games, music
[21:27] <Supermanintights> oh
[21:27] <Supermanintights> i'm with you
[21:27] <lartza> Supermanintights: My Steam folder is 104 Gigabytes
[21:28] <Supermanintights> that's retarded
[21:28] <Supermanintights> outside, there is sunshine
[21:28] <Supermanintights> it's good for body and skin
[21:28] <Supermanintights> go experience it
[21:29] <lartza> Supermanintights: Well I am not even sure what there is...
[21:29] <lartza> Supermanintights: I mean my Steam folder :P
[21:29] <lartza> Well Team Fortress 2 takes the 15 gigabytes...
[21:30] <lartza> Metro 2033 is 7 and a half
[21:30] <lartza> Napoleon Total War is around 22 gigabytes and emprie is like... 16?
[21:30] <lartza> *empire
[21:30] <lartza> It' just few big games :D
[21:30] <lartza> And I only play like half of them
[21:30] <lartza> Like Napoleon and... TF2 at times
[21:35] <oimon1> evening lads and ladies
[21:37] <oimon1> does this link fail for anyone else? http://design.canonical.com/2012/01/launcher-reveal-prototype/
[21:38] <oimon1> ah, working now ..
[21:42] <reaper4334> your link url works for me, however I can't seem to get XChat to open links in Firefox :S
[21:43] <reaper4334> nothing at all happens when I click the link...
[21:53] <reaper4334> ...nevermind, I fixed it it was the "gui_url_mod" setting in XChat that was wrong
[21:57] <Supermanintights> anyone got any virtual machine software recommended for ubuntu?
[21:57] <Supermanintights> i.e. is it worth getting vmware of virtualbox or something?
[21:57] <Azelphur> virtualbox is a favourite for most people
[21:57] <reaper4334> have a look in the Ubuntu Software Centre, I think it's VirtualBox that's in there
[21:58] <Supermanintights> yeah - so that'd be fine, no need to get the vmware or anything?
[21:58] <awilkins> Supermanintights, I like Virtualbox, but I've been put off reinstalling it after seeing http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTk5Mw
[21:59] <awilkins> I leave it on my Windows machine at the moment :-)
[21:59] <reaper4334> Nahh, I've never had any problems with VirtualBox myself, I don't use it for anything critical though
[22:00] <AlanBell> I use virtualbox all the time, works great
[22:00] <awilkins> I tried MS Virtual PC once but it seems to have been carefully broken to make Linux LiveCD images fail to boot
[22:02] <Supe> gotta love MS at times...
[22:02] <Supe> i'm getting both virtualbox and vmware - see which one i prefer to use
[22:03] <awilkins> Grr, one thing I hate about recycling is people dropping bottles in the bin at night
[22:03] <awilkins> Sounds like yobs breaking things
[22:08] <ali1234> Azelphur: do you still have that arduino?
[22:08] <Azelphur> yep
[22:08] <ali1234> did you fix it?
[22:08] <Azelphur> tbh I havn't found the time lol
[22:09] <ali1234> you can use it by programming it with the ICSP header instead of serial
[22:09] <ali1234> you just need a parallel cable
[22:10] <jutnux> Virtual Box works fine for me, also.
[22:10] <ali1234> also it turns out that all arduinos have serial trouble under linux
[22:11] <ali1234> but i don't think that's the cause of your problem
[22:11] <ali1234> the new boards dumped that ftdi chip anyway so it's easier to fix them
[22:25] <Supe> ok, after many hours of getting little done, running clonezilla - backing up my linux partition. then i reinstall windows. and then booom - finally a working dual boot
[22:26] <Supe> at least until i run into my next problem
[22:40] <jacobw> haha
[22:42] <Supe> seriously, everyone says it's easy - you've been with me and seen most of the problems i've had.  its stupid
[22:43] <Supe> right now i'm having to reinstall windows
[22:43] <jacobw> why do you need it?
[22:43] <jutnux> Seems like you've had a bad run
[22:43] <jutnux> Just wipe Windows off and it';s done deal
[22:43] <Supe> windows? adobe software, games and anything that isn't native linux
[22:44] <Supe> that i'd use for business
[22:45] <jacobw> what adobe stuff do you use?
[22:45] <Supe> photoshop, dreamweaver, after affects, soundbooth, premiere, flash, illustrator
[22:45] <jutnux> Dreamweaver is terrible
[22:45] <Supe> they're the main ones i go into
[22:45] <jacobw> vim > dreamweaver
[22:46] <jutnux> vim > gedit > emacs > kate > dreamweaver
[22:46] <jacobw> kate has a vi mode you know
[22:46] <Supe> probably - i don't mind if there is a really good alternative, but photoshop i've spent ages working with - and have lots of plugins etc. for, and i like also using stuff like sony vegas ettc.
[22:46] <jutnux> orly
[22:46] <Laney> fyi, bay leaves are not nice to eat
[22:46] <jutnux> never knew that jacobw
[22:47] <mgdm> jacobw: the methadone to vi's heroin?
[22:47] <jutnux> Supe: Perhaps a virtual machine would suffice for Photoshop?
[22:47] <jacobw> :)
[22:47] <Supe> i don't think my laptop is good enough to run photoshop at a high enough quality on a VM
[22:47] <ali1234> how much ram does it have?
[22:47] <Supe> plus i like just having the option - especially as it does mean if i get bored enough i can play games easily
[22:47] <Supe> 4gb
[22:48] <ali1234> that's plenty
[22:48] <ali1234> it will work fine
[22:48] <jacobw> VMs are much better now
[22:48] <ali1234> wait, what CPU does it have?
[22:48] <jutnux> I run photoshop fine on <700mb
[22:48] <Supe> erm
[22:48] <Supe> it's a toshiba satellite a500-17x
[22:48] <Supe> that'll give you my specs
[22:48] <jacobw> `cpuinfo`
[22:49] <Supe> it doesn't run photoshop and leave me a lot to spare, the cursor seems ever so slightly laggy, but not enough that it has a negative effect
[22:49] <ali1234> you need to install the irtualbox guest utils to fix mouse lag
[22:50] <ali1234> that CPU doesn't have hardware virtualization so it's crippled
[22:50] <Supe> http://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/jsp/SUPPORTSECTION/discontinuedProductPage.do?service=UK&toshibaShop=false&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&PRODUCT_ID=1076471
[22:50] <ali1234> you should always buy AMD CPUs for this reason
[22:50] <Supe> i just bought a laptop that was on a big sale
[22:50] <Supe> i asked can it run X Y Z (and play 1080p movies easily) - "yes", sold
[22:50] <ali1234> it will probably still un acceptably well after you install guest utils
[22:50] <jacobw> sales persons suck
[22:51] <Supe> yep, they do
[22:51] <ali1234> the cpu is plenty fast enough
[22:51] <Supe> i knew they didn't really know, just said yes and knew nothing would happen if it didn't
[22:51] <ali1234> it's just that intel cripples it's laptop cpus
[22:51] <Supe> plus - as well as photoshop - i will be playing games, online
[22:52] <Supe> i think once i run my next "sale" online, and bring in a few grand, i'll just treat myself to an alienware laptop or something
[22:52] <ali1234> well games don't work in virtualbox
[22:52] <ali1234> lolno
[22:52] <ali1234> don't buy a laptop for general use
[22:52] <Supe> i need a laptop as i work remotely
[22:52] <ali1234> that makes no sense
[22:52] <Supe> meh
[22:52] <jutnux> you need to get a home job
[22:52] <ali1234> besides you already have one
[22:52] <ali1234> why would you buy another one
[22:52] <jutnux> or work at home ;-)
[22:52] <Supe> a better one?
[22:53] <Supe> i do work at home
[22:53] <jutnux> productivity works 1000000 fold at a desktop
[22:53] <jutnux> for me anyway
[22:53] <Supe> but, i could be told to go to my bosses office/flat which means a desktop isn't ideal
[22:53] <Supe> i prefer desktops
[22:53] <Supe> i agree on the productivity - i work far faster on a desktop
[22:53] <ali1234> a laptop better than 4GB and a dual core 2.13GHz?
[22:53] <jacobw> there's no difference
[22:53] <Supe> but my desktop is shocking, that bad it's not even worth talking about
[22:54] <jutnux> but then surely you could take the laptop
[22:54] <jutnux> when you aren't moving everywhere
[22:54] <jutnux> you could use the desktop
[22:54] <ali1234> if you really want to run a lot of VMs with stuff like photoshop... well ... i have 16GB and a quad core AMD
[22:54] <ali1234> you won't get that from a laptop
[22:54] <Supe> my laptop overheats - so i was thinking of replacing it soon, i'd just thought i might as well treat myself to a top of the line one - with a battery lasting longer than 45minutes
[22:54]  * jacobw prefers laptops, with external monitor and keyboard in comfortable location
[22:54] <ali1234> the machine did cost less than a high end laptop though
[22:55] <jutnux> ali1234: My next build will include a quad core and high amounts of ram.
[22:55] <Supe> maybe once i've properly got this laptop (the one i'm dualbooting) sorted, I'll be happy with that
[22:55] <jutnux> You run Ubutu or something else ali1234 ?
[22:55] <Supe> and then i can biuld myself a proper desktop for my office
[22:55] <ali1234> i recommend minimum of 8GB for a serious workstation these days
[22:55] <jutnux> Supe: You cleared out the vents yet?
[22:55] <jutnux> Maybe that is why it is overheating
[22:55] <ali1234> i only run ubuntu and windows in vms
[22:55] <jutnux> Me too
[22:55] <Supe> problem is i wanted to build myself a HTPC - can people use HTPC's as a standard pc as well - for work/business?
[22:56] <jutnux> this build has 4gb of ram
[22:56] <jutnux> DDR3
[22:56] <jutnux> runs okay
[22:56] <Supe> or will that have negative impacts?
[22:56] <ali1234> the difference between 4GB and 8GB  is very large
[22:56] <jutnux> Supe: Depends
[22:56] <Supe> jutnux, yup, tried all that - it heats up retarded though, especially when i plug in my monitor/tv
[22:56] <jutnux> Hmm
[22:56] <ali1234> with 16GB the whole OS is running from cache, so it's like having an SSD except even faster
[22:57] <Supe> at times, i'm pretty sure i can smell something burning, and it has "shut down" a few times due to overheating, not many, and not for a few weeks, but has in past
[22:57] <jutnux> Supe: Then you need to throw that laptop out of the window / get a refunds.
[22:57] <jutnux> refrund
[22:57] <jutnux> refund
[22:57] <Supe> it's 18 months old now
[22:57] <Supe> won't be able to get a refund
[22:57] <jutnux> Ah
[22:58] <ali1234> high end laptops are just a waste of money
[22:58] <jutnux> I bought an oldish netbook to run a LAN Minecraft server on
[22:58] <Supe> all my bosses/colleagues/friends use macs - i ran a hackintosh for a month, and felt almost suicidal
[22:58] <ali1234> they always overheat and have terrible battery life
[22:58] <jutnux> I tried Mac for 2 days
[22:58] <jutnux> my productivity just went down down down
[22:58] <jutnux> surprisingly, with Unity, it went up up up up
[22:59] <jacobw> i'm confused by macs
[22:59] <jutnux> I thought Mac was going to be amazing
[22:59] <Supe> ali1234, i saw an alienware that looked good (and expensive) that had several hours battery life, and great specs - do you guys really reckon it'd not be worth getting one? for media/gaming/production?
[22:59] <jacobw> the unix is obvious, the ui less so
[22:59] <jutnux> Supe: If you can get a desktop instead, no.
[22:59] <ali1234> alienware is known for being overpriced and not very good
[22:59] <Supe> i can get a desktop, but i need a laptop as well
[22:59] <Supe> if you get me
[22:59] <jutnux> Supe: system76 is quite good
[22:59] <ali1234> "several hours battery life" is a flat out lie
[22:59] <jutnux> They have quite cheap deals imho.
[22:59] <Supe> as i'll be going to my bosses office/flat on a relatively regular basis
[22:59] <jutnux> Several hours battery life, whilst in hibernation mode.
[23:00] <jutnux> Which doesn't even require power as it saves to the HDD.
[23:00] <jutnux> Supe: System76 have cheap deals in my opinion
[23:00] <jacobw> US only though
[23:00] <jutnux> Nah
[23:00] <jutnux> post to UK
[23:00] <jutnux> I think
[23:00] <Supe> hmm
[23:01] <jacobw> you can pay for shipping, but need to pay by credit card in that case
[23:01] <Supe> it's been too long since i delved into hardware
[23:01] <jacobw> which means you need a credit limit of whatever the system you want costs
[23:01] <ali1234> there is no laptop with high enough specs to do video production adequately
[23:01] <Supe> is it still cheaper to build your own?
[23:01] <ali1234> i mean the first thing you need to add is a second monitor
[23:01] <jutnux> Supe: Yes
[23:01] <jutnux> Remember kids, the more monitors you have, the bigger your e-peen!
[23:01] <ali1234> and not some 800x600 slide out thing either
[23:02] <Supe> jutnux> Remember kids, the more monitors you have, the bigger your e-peen! - just ask Azelphur
[23:02] <jutnux> How many does he have?
[23:02] <jutnux> 12?
[23:02] <ali1234> you can't really run after effects with one monitor
[23:02] <ali1234> it just doesn't work
[23:02] <ali1234> maybe if you had a really high resolution
[23:02] <Supe> if i wanted to biuld a desktop - but i have no idea what hw components would work with each other, what do you recommend?  I'd be happy to shell out about 1500-2000 mabe if the machine was good enough
[23:02] <jutnux> Speaking of home entertainment servers I built one for my Dad.
[23:03] <ali1234> get a dell and customize it
[23:03] <jutnux> Supe: Dell
[23:03] <jutnux> Damnit, inb4ed.
[23:03] <Supe> dell.co.uk?
[23:03] <jutnux> Yeah
[23:03] <ali1234> not alienware
[23:03] <AlanBell> get something quiet
[23:03] <jutnux> Dell is pretty cheap
[23:03] <ali1234> don't buy anything with blue LEDs and fins
[23:03] <jutnux> No point in getting lights
[23:03] <jutnux> or making the inside of the case look nice
[23:03] <ali1234> the good stuff has understanded cases
[23:04] <ali1234> look in the small business section
[23:04] <ali1234> dell precision
[23:04] <Supe> hmm
[23:05] <Supe> would they be workable to run as a htpc if i wanted to?
[23:05] <ali1234> no
[23:05] <Supe> i.e. if i ran it as a second partition for xbmclive
[23:05] <ali1234> if you don't mind that it's huge
[23:06] <Supe> meh, not what i want then - i'd love a desktop for work at the office (which is at my place), but i'd need it to run as a htpc when I need/want it to as well
[23:06] <ali1234> basically what you should do is look at the configuration sheet for this dell and then just buy all those parts from ebuyer and put it together yourself
[23:06] <Supe> size is not a problem for me - i don't care if it's huge
[23:06] <Supe> hmm
[23:06] <Supe> but if it can't really run as a htpc - it won't work for me
[23:07] <jutnux> Supe: What do you define as a htpc?
[23:08] <ali1234> for a decent workstation you are looking at £5000
[23:08] <Supe> i can run xbmclive, run any media effortlessly to my tv/ps3, store all my media etc.
[23:08] <ali1234> from dell
[23:08] <ali1234> and that's including a proper monitor
[23:08] <Supe> can you define workstation?
[23:08] <Supe> over a desktop?
[23:08] <ali1234> yeah, a machine that can do anything
[23:08] <Supe> fair enough
[23:08] <ali1234> a machine that never runs out of ram or goes slow when you're doing something
[23:09] <ali1234> so 12GB, quad core xeon
[23:09] <ali1234> 24" monitor
[23:09] <Supe> if i'm running games, media, production, gfx editing etc. - is a workstation recommended, or is it overkill?
[23:09] <Supe> I genuinely don't know and i'm trying to learn - don't think i'm trolling or anything
[23:09] <ali1234> also a high end nvidia card
[23:10] <ali1234> what kind of media are you producing?
[23:10] <ali1234> are you doing video? SD or HD?
[23:10] <reaper4334> it probably is overkill, but I know I would if I could afford it
[23:10] <Supe> video - sd and hd
[23:10] <Supe> also music production
[23:10] <ali1234> hmm if i take off that high end 3d card it's only £2112
[23:11] <Supe> don't care about 3d
[23:11] <Supe> my tv is 3d, but it just looks crap to me
[23:11] <ali1234> yes you do
[23:11] <Supe> i care about 3d
[23:11] <ali1234> you can't run any modern operating system without 3c acceleration
[23:11] <Supe> wow, you have 1337 jedi mind skills :P
[23:12] <Supe> ah
[23:12] <Supe> ok
[23:12] <Supe> i've just reinstalled windows
[23:12] <Supe> how do i reinstall the grub bootloader or whatever
[23:13] <Supe> i don't have any option to go into linux/ubuntu - just boots straight to windows
[23:13] <ali1234> you need to boot the livecd
[23:13] <jutnux> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[23:13] <Supe> fml, i did it on a usb stick, and my usb stick doens't have it on any more
[23:13] <jutnux> brb coffee time
[23:13] <Supe> ok, no problem
[23:13] <Supe> what's the name of the software that boots to a usb stick?
[23:14] <AlanBell> unetbootin?
[23:14] <Supe> that's it
[23:14] <Supe> thanks
[23:16] <reaper4334> or there's Universal USB Installer which I think is a little bit simpler http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/
[23:19] <jutnux> back
[23:20] <jutnux> Hahhahaha, slowly converting a friend to Ubuntu
[23:21] <Supe> long time windows user?
[23:22] <jutnux> Pretty much
[23:22] <jutnux> Going round his tomorrow to work on his server for him
[23:22] <Supe> i think the main thign that converts people
[23:22] <Supe> if commands like apt-get update and apt-get install appeals to them
[23:23] <Supe> i love it - so much easier and quicker than windows stuff
[23:23] <Supe> if people take to that - ubuntu is a done deal i reckon
[23:23] <jutnux> if the target is in the repositories
[23:24] <Supe> for the most part, as long as you google, read and follow directions - adding repositiories aint that difficult - for the most part, you just copy and past terminal commands
[23:24] <Supe> *paste
[23:24] <jutnux> You don't learn by C&Ping
[23:24] <jutnux> Better off typing them outy
[23:24] <jutnux> or that's how I see it ;)
[23:24] <Supe> haha
[23:24] <Supe> i do read them
[23:25] <AlanBell> the GUI tools are pretty good
[23:25] <Supe> and i am picking up the way terminal commands work (slowly)
[23:25] <ali1234> C and Ping?
[23:25] <Supe> kfk
[23:25] <Supe> ...
[23:25] <Supe> *if i'm formatting a drive on windows for boot - is it best NTFS or FAT32?
[23:26] <ali1234> install windows first
[23:26] <Supe> i'm on windows
[23:26] <Supe> i'm using my bro's laptop for all this
[23:26] <ali1234> then don't format any linux drives from windows
[23:26] <ali1234> theinstaller does it all for you
[23:26] <Supe> but i need to do so so i can reinstall the bootgrub
[23:26] <jutnux> what
[23:26] <ali1234> oh you mean the usb flash drive?
[23:26] <jutnux> just use a liveUSB
[23:27] <Supe> yeah
[23:27] <jutnux> oh
[23:27] <ali1234> fat32
[23:27] <Supe> that's what i'm doing
[23:27] <Supe> thanks :P
[23:27] <ali1234> ntfs won't work for that
[23:27] <Supe> i probably could have worded that better to be fair
[23:27] <Supe> will i need to download the whole ISO
[23:27] <jutnux> yup
[23:28] <Supe> or will that 25mb minimal ubuntu thing be enough?
[23:28] <jutnux> Download the whole ISO and keep it on the Memory stick
[23:28] <ali1234> the minimal is enough if you know what you are doing
[23:28] <jutnux> Basically a problem fixing swiss army knife
[23:28] <Supe> it's a 32gb memory stick, it'd be a waste
[23:28] <Supe> i'll do so one day
[23:28] <jutnux> Oh
[23:28] <jutnux> Partition it?
[23:28] <jutnux> I think you can do that.
[23:28] <Supe> and no, i don't know what i'm doing - so i'll get the full one
[23:28] <ali1234> you can copy other files onto a live usb drive
[23:28] <Supe> meh, too much hassle
[23:28] <Supe> can you?
[23:28] <ali1234> of course
[23:29] <ali1234> it just puts some files on to it
[23:29] <Supe> screw it - i'll worry about it later, i've just cleaned about 28gb from it
[23:29] <Supe> full ISO it is then
[23:29] <ali1234> as long as it is fat32 and has 1 gb free it's good
[23:29] <ali1234> with unetbootin anyway
[23:29] <ali1234> you could always burn it on a cd as well
[23:30] <Supe> i tried burning to a cd, did 3 cd burns
[23:30] <Supe> not one of them worked
[23:30] <ali1234> probably bios issues
[23:30] <Supe> crashed at different poitns
[23:30] <ali1234> dunno then
[23:30] <Supe> usb stick works well enough
[23:30] <ali1234> it's better
[23:30] <ali1234> you just end up with piles of CDRs
[23:30] <Supe> i'll just buy a really cheap usb stick 1gb, and just use that for ISO booting
[23:31] <ali1234> go to computer shows, get them for free
[23:31] <Supe> (I have piles of CD/DVD's, none of them are marked - i've no idea if it's got OSX, windows, porn or whatever on)
[23:32] <jutnux> pfft
[23:32] <jutnux> I might make a video called booting windows
[23:32] <jutnux> which is really kicking it into a bonfire]
[23:32] <jutnux> I have no use for CDs anymore
[23:32] <Supe> for the most part, i rarely use them
[23:33] <Supe> if i can i just use virtual cd's/dvd drives
[23:33] <Supe> far easier and does the job just as well, without the hassle
[23:33] <Supe> but sometimes, needs must
[23:40] <jutnux> Coffee <3
[23:40] <jutnux> Wish Costa delivered
[23:40] <jutnux> I have to live off of insta-coffee
[23:49] <Supe> don't any of the coffee chains do deliveries?
[23:49] <jutnux> Not that I know of.
[23:49] <Supe> I'd have thought they'd do so within say a 3-4 mile radius
[23:49] <jutnux> Not here, anyway.
[23:49] <Supe> where's here?
[23:50] <Supe> :P
[23:50] <jutnux> Norfolk
[23:50] <jutnux> And not at this time of night ;-)
[23:51] <Supe> there's a potential business market here....
[23:52] <jutnux> Wouldn't make a profit
[23:54] <Supe> how much would you pay extra to have a costa coffee or starbucks (or whatever) delivered to your door?
[23:54] <Supe> and it'd be hot etc.
[23:55] <Supe> many sandwich shops do free delivery
[23:55] <Supe> and the food is very cheap
[23:55] <Nafallo> £0
[23:55] <Nafallo> I'm not that bloody lazy
[23:55] <Supe> so it must cost them money to do so
[23:55] <Supe> what if it was at this time of night Nafallo?
[23:55] <Supe> and you were desperate for a lovely costa coffee....
[23:55] <Nafallo> then I would know better than to drink coffee :-)
[23:55] <Supe> bleh
[23:56] <Supe> be like that then
[23:56] <Nafallo> I will!
[23:57] <jacobw> kebabs ftw
[23:57] <Supe> any of you have an nzb-reader preference? or is Sabnzbd+ the general favourite?
[23:58] <The_Fred> hello
[23:58] <Nafallo> hmm. anyone knows if London City Airport still have free liquid bags?
[23:58] <The_Fred> Im creating an android app to remote control my pc, how can i capture the data from a socket?
[23:59] <jacobw> Nafallo: its an odd question
[23:59] <jacobw> Nafallo: i have no idea
[23:59] <ctuser> hi