[00:00] hey ctuser [00:00] jacobw: stanstead have started charging for them, the evil bastards. [00:01] I had to smuggle my contacts in some deep pocket of my bag last time. [00:01] The_Fred: #android [00:01] Anyways, now going all, bye. [00:01] Nafallo: that is evil :( [00:01] bye jutnux [00:01] see ya jutnux [00:01] thanks for help [00:02] jutnux, thanks, but i've got the android side up and running (reding sensors, sending button click events, etc, its how to capture the data on ubuntu that has me stumped for now [00:09] guys [00:09] if i'm doing a boot repair, would you recommend terminal or graphical? [00:09] this is for my dual boot etc. [00:10] erm [00:10] what is giving you the choice? [00:10] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows [00:11] terminal is easier [00:11] ok cool [00:12] is this likely to erase my current ubuntu installation? [00:12] no [00:12] i've not touched the partitions when installing windows - oly my windows [00:12] great [00:13] do i want to repair the swap or linux partition? [00:13] the linux partition [00:13] thanks [00:14] says error - can't find a device for /boot/grub - is /dev mounted? [00:15] i did - "sudo grub-install /dev/sda5" [00:17] any ideas? [00:17] i can do a pastebin if it helps [00:18] the easy way is this in terminal [00:18] sudo mount /dev/sdaX /mnt [00:18] sudo mount --bind /proc /dev/proc [00:18] sudo mount --bind /sys /dev/sys [00:18] sudo mount --bind /dev /dev/dev [00:19] sudo chroot /mnt [00:19] sudo grub-install /dev/sda [00:19] on the second line - it says /dev/proc does not exist [00:19] sudo update-grub [00:19] dont know what you have done to this point, so you may need to reboot [00:19] so far [00:20] i've just put in liveusb [00:20] terminal [00:20] sudo fdisk -l [00:20] and then your first line you gave me [00:20] K [00:20] oops [00:20] change the /dev/ to /mnt/ [00:21] pastebin.ubuntu.com/795495 [00:21] sudo mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc [00:21] etc [00:21] ah [00:22] that's going through now so far, thanks [00:22] putting the rest int [00:22] in [00:24] ah [00:24] encountered an error [00:24] let me pastebin it [00:25] pastebin.ubuntu.com/795503 [00:25] thats fine [00:25] your good to reboot [00:25] oh, it's worked? [00:25] i haven't done the sudo update-grub [00:26] should i do that right? [00:26] yeah [00:26] ok [00:26] lets see if this works [00:27] while i was downloading ubuntu i got my gfx driver all installed on windows - so i'm hoping this all works perfectly now - both OS [00:27] thanks ubuntubhoy - it looks to have worked, grub bootloader there now [00:27] you're a legend :) [00:27] nope [00:27] I have just made an arse of it that many times myself [00:28] I know the getout code now :D [00:28] haha [01:05] I used to keep multiple partitions on a USB stick [01:05] One FAT32 to swap files back and forth, then a LiveCD [01:06] You have to put the FAT32 first because Windows figures "USB stick, only has one partition on it, oh, this isn't a filesystem I know, derp, derp" [02:37] not only windows that does that. PS3 will only use first partition on usb [03:09] I did something similar [03:09] I used to just set the fat32 to drive a:/ and the ps3 recognised it, as my other partition was NTFS - drive J:/ [03:45] morning [09:11] Good morning all. [09:16] Morning popey [09:16] et al. [09:21] Sounds nice - The OLPC XO 3.0 to be launched next week at CES: http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/electronics-news/4234013/Marvell-and-One-Laptop-per-Child-Unveil-the-XO-3-0-Tablet [09:22] morning [09:23] i think somebody just let the cat out of the bag regarding canonicals surprise for CES [09:29] * popey wonders where [09:32] mungojerry: interesting ☺ [09:33] mungojerry: care to elaborate? [09:34] popey, bbc article re ces, wanna link [09:34] ya [09:34] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136 [09:34] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136 [09:34] yarp [09:35] ☺ [09:36] thanks for that [09:36] not sure it says anything we didnt already say does it? [09:37] It has made the leap to promote an early prototype of a Ubuntu-based connected television as well as to show off the netbooks and laptops normally associated with its code. [09:38] hadn.t heard any concrete mention of actual device previously [09:38] especially alongside quotes from jane silber [09:40] we.ve all seen mockups of various bits and bobs, maybe i.m readin [09:40] too literally [09:42] interesting [09:48] need some help guys - I have a netbook with messed up a partition table after recovering with testdisk [09:48] gparted wont read it as it says that the extended patition goes beyond the end of the disk [09:49] I want to wipe the lot apart from 1 data partition [09:49] whats the best way to set about it [09:49] also cant copy to an external device [10:00] so what is running on that? http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57717000/jpg/_57717084_ubuntuwebbook3.jpg [10:14] the question has changed, how do I delete an extended partition and all the logical partitions within from the terminal ? [10:14] leaving any preceeding primary partitions intact [10:17] carefully ;) [10:17] yeah [10:17] seriously, you can use fdisk or gparted, assuming either understands the partition table (i.e. if it's not GPT) [10:17] am I best clearing the table with testdisk & only adding the primary parts back [10:18] dwatkins, gparted wont read it [10:18] I'd get the partition mountable you want to copy data from, make two copies and wipe the disk. [10:18] ubuntubhoy: how about fdisk? [10:18] it reads it fine [10:18] ok cool, then you can manipulate it with fdisk in theory [10:18] but iirc it will only delete the logical, not the extended [10:19] I don't remember fdisk having that restriction. [10:19] when I list it only shows primary & logical [10:19] not the extended container [10:20] infact your right [10:20] just checked again [10:20] that should do it [10:20] cool [10:20] always have two copies of anything important [10:20] looking at it too long without actually reading [10:21] I know the feeling :) [10:21] will copy the data to a primary part before the extended [10:21] wipe the rest & re-install everything [10:25] I'd strongly suggest putting it on a separate device and backing up externally to somewhere in another building/town/solar system if possible [10:25] you never know... [10:27] if I had the option it would make the whole thing a load easier [10:27] can't you can an internet connection from the machine? [10:27] the really importent stuff is on my dropbox account [10:27] ok cool [10:27] but there is some other stuff that would be 'handy' to hold onto [10:27] but not vital [10:28] there's also wetransfer.com for temporary storage, if you're desperate [10:28] although it's meant for sending files, it can take a single file up to 2 GB. [10:28] internet aint the best here [10:29] would take a life time for 30G [10:29] ah I see [10:29] I was surprised how small 16 GB USB flash drives can be, practically the size of the port plus 4mm [10:30] I'm running my entire web site off of a 16GB flash drive [10:30] Makes it easy to create backups [10:30] I used to run my server off a 4GB CF card in an IDE adapter. [10:30] indeed, occupy64k [10:30] also, nice nickname ;) [10:30] thanks [10:31] who needs more than 640k... [10:31] well I'm still not using the whole 16GB and there's plenty of headroom remaining [10:31] I'm looking forward to getting a Raspberry Pi and running it off a small flash drive. [10:32] What services do you run on the machine, occupy64k? Just apache? [10:33] No, many things. Mediawiki, bitcoin, bookmarks, calendar, taskwarrior, FTP, photos [10:33] neat [10:33] and email [10:33] with Roundcube [10:33] I liked the look of Roundcube when I looked into it. [10:34] It's ok. Not as many features as gmail, but I don't need all those things [10:34] My new server is a flash-based netbook, its / has 16 GB [10:36] My lesson from the last couple of years is that it's easy to run your own server, and provides many benefits [10:36] this reminds me, I have a minimalist homepage to update :) [11:03] good morning everyone, [11:04] hi brobostigon [11:05] hi dwatkins [11:06] how goes it? [11:06] dwatkins: not so good, about the same yesterday, my eczema isnt better, and still feeling ill. and you? [11:07] bah and bah, I can relate to that a little as I have very dry skin on my hands and have just gotten over a really lengthy cold [11:07] ok. [11:07] a nurse friend of mine reccomended Hydromol, it's waxy but seems to help. [11:08] moving to Scotland seems to have completely dried-out my knuckles [11:09] dwatkins: Stop dragging them along the ground when you walk ;-) [11:09] lol, oook [11:09] dwatkins: my creams are all ointment like, so very similer. [11:10] I'm off to replace the door mirror on my Volvo. Seems a bit moot now that someone drove into the other door and fscked the wing too. Car will probably a write-off when they examine it in a week. :-( [11:10] my brother avoids orange juice as he believes it's a trigger [11:10] bah, TheOpenSourcerer :( [11:10] Miss-read as "he believes it's a tiger" [11:11] rawr [11:11] Morning peeps :) [11:12] morning bigcalm :) [11:12] TheOpenSourcerer: doesn't sound terribly hard to fix [11:12] dwatkins: in theory, any of my allergies including weather, could trigeer, inclusive of state of mind. [11:12] TheOpenSourcerer: hassle them to give you Cat C or Cat D writeoff and sell it back to you [11:13] TheOpenSourcerer: you'll *probably* get it back for scrap value or a little more, and get your insurance payout [11:13] then you just stick another door and wing on from a scrappy [11:13] hey bigcalm [11:13] Which tool should I use to filter the output of ifconfig to show only the local ip address of eth0? I have heard of awk, is that an appropriate tool? [11:14] TheOpenSourcerer: then what you do is every time you look out your window at your repaired car sitting on the driveway you think "haha, up yours, insurance company!" [11:17] kvarley: you shouldn't parse ifconfig output [11:18] kvarley: maybe "ip addr" output [11:18] kvarley: but ifconfig is obsolete [11:18] +1 [11:18] is there a simpler way than parsing "ip addr", MartijnVdS? [11:18] e.g. something in /proc which just returns the IP address [11:18] dwatkins: maybe [11:19] * dwatkins does a grep -R [11:19] /proc/net/fib_trie has something [11:20] Doing the same ioctls/syscalls as "ip" does isn't an option I guess :) [11:20] MartijnVdS: Found this nice little bit of code online =] "ifconfig | sed -n -e 's/:127\.0\.0\.1 //g' -e 's/ *inet addr:\([0-9.]\+\).*/\1/gp'" [11:20] kvarley: ifconfig is obsolete, and won't show all IP addresses on the interface if there are more [11:21] MartijnVdS: Hmmm, what would be the "best" way? [11:21] kvarley: what do you want to know, and why? :) [11:21] MartijnVdS: I'm thinking of the need to find out the current IP address from bash, I guess looking up the current hostname might be an option [11:22] dwatkins: that might not match [11:22] gordonjcp: What's Cat C/D mean? [11:22] Yeah, I was just thinking the same, MartijnVdS [11:22] MartijnVdS: My local IP address so I can SSH/SSHFS/SCP in from my netbook when the .local domain name doesn't work [11:22] MartijnVdS: I suspect I could use python to get it =] [11:22] TheOpenSourcerer: cat C is that is not badly damaged but uneconomical to repair [11:22] TheOpenSourcerer: ie. the parts and labour would be too expensive [11:23] kvarley: reverse tunnel ;) [11:23] kvarley: 1 second while I look that up [11:23] That sounds about right - The car's probably only worth ~£1k [11:23] kvarley: does your router not use the machine's hostname? [11:23] kvarley: http://www.howtoforge.com/reverse-ssh-tunneling [11:23] TheOpenSourcerer: cat D is that it *is* economically viable to repair it, but there is some other factor that makes it not viable [11:23] TheOpenSourcerer: if it's a bolt-on wing then you can change it in about half an hour [11:24] Well, someone can. Not me ;-) [11:24] heh [11:24] was about to say that ☺ [11:24] Dunno if a 98/9 V70 has bolt-on wings or not. [11:24] TheOpenSourcerer: can you open up a PC case to fix things? [11:24] Oh Yes. [11:24] well then [11:24] same thing [11:24] Bit different. [11:25] Cars are dirty and big. [11:25] yeah, you're using a 10mm socket instead of a philips screwdriver [11:25] open up the bonnet and see if there's a little line of bolts in the channel at the edge of the bonnet opening [11:25] And you have to scrabble around on cold concrete floors. [11:25] Rather give someone money to that kind of thing. [11:25] s/do [11:26] Mind you I have just managed to replace the door mirror without breaking the replacement or me ;-) [11:27] fair enough [11:27] also it's more ecologically friendly to keep your old car going than it is to buy a new one [11:28] I thought if the insurance company wrote off a car it meant they will never insure it again. [11:28] no matter what you drive, it takes a lot more energy to make a car than it will ever use in its lifetime [11:28] Indeed it is, but mine does drink petrol like [11:28] dwatkins: nope [11:28] TheOpenSourcerer: evens o [11:28] *even so [11:28] It's a 2.4L Turbo and a big and heavy car. [11:29] TheOpenSourcerer: you need a truly collossal amount of energy to smelt all the steel [11:29] I'd like to get something a big smaller/more economical. The wifey wants a 7 seater people/child mover. [11:29] TheOpenSourcerer: wee diesel mpv then ;-) [11:29] Do you have 7 moving children? [11:30] we need 2 cars. Currently an A Class and my Volvo. [11:30] TheOpenSourcerer: if you're going to get a diesel car get a French one [11:30] they've been at it longer than everyone else [11:30] except maybe Mercedes [11:30] occupy64k: Nah but we have 2 and she does school runs and list shares. [11:30] There are some pretty good lease deals on new Mercs right now... [11:31] With fuel costs as they are it makes sense to minimize redundant seats [11:31] Quite fancy the idea of a Golf TDi though. [11:32] I like my Mercedes Vito [11:32] although it's getting replaced with a Citroën Dispatch later this month [11:32] * popey hugs his V70 diesel [11:32] Our A class has been a good and reliable car. Mind you so has the Volvo. Both are about 10yr old now. [11:33] what kind of mpg do you get popey ? [11:34] * Laney hugs his 18 speed hybrid [11:35] Try taking wife, 2 kids and a car full of baggage on that though Laney [11:36] nah, they just have their own + panniers [11:36] the fun of the cycle touring holiday /o\ [11:36] Hmmm... [11:36] Oooh - Tesco slips up? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f98e7ba-38a1-11e1-9d07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1iltRda7j [11:36] I hear the Nissan Leaf is pretty good, although I'd be concerned about running out of power on a long journey. [11:37] TheOpenSourcerer: no idea, 30 something [11:37] i rarely drive it these days now I wfh [11:37] dwatkins: Where "long" means 60miles or so. [11:37] TheOpenSourcerer: ouch :-/ [11:38] dwatkins: yeah, I can't see me ever finding an electric car to be practical [11:38] I like the idea of electric cars, especially as the batteries can be swapped-out for a fast "recharge" but until the range is at least a couple hundred miles, I guess they won't be so popular. [11:38] popey: You still interested in a community workspace idea? Might need to talk about it a bit more over a beer sometime. [11:38] YES! [11:38] I'm lucky - my drive to work is about 4.5 miles, but I have no way of charging an electric car as I live in a 3rd floor flat. I plan to start cycling this year. [11:39] dwatkins: you could charge it at work [11:39] 'better way' is the better way to do electric cars [11:39] you dont charge it [11:39] dwatkins: you could buy a petrol generator to plug it into [11:39] gordonjcp: perhaps, yeah [11:39] you drive into a station and swap batteries [11:39] takes same time as a fuel-up conventional car [11:39] popey: I can't really see that working [11:39] Hydrogen Fuel Cell FTW! [11:39] popey: yeah, I don't believe there's a swapping-station in Edinburgh but yes [11:40] better place, not better way [11:40] dwatkins: yet [11:40] popey: how do you design a connector that is easy to connect and disconnect, can handle hundreds of volts at hundreds of amps, and remains safe even when being sprayed with salty water? [11:40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Os25gP4yA [11:40] popey: yeah, I imagine that'll change as petrol and diesel get more expensive [11:40] Those connectors are common in industry [11:40] you dont [11:40] they rip the battery out and put another in [11:40] popey: right, but *how* [11:41] there must be some means of connecting it to the rest of the car [11:41] watch the video [11:41] popey: I tried already, someone else pointed it out [11:42] is there a transcript or something, or possibly a version in english? [11:42] We went to this http://www.ecovelocity.co.uk/ a few months ago. Electric cars are still not ready for prime time IMHO. Fuel Cells will be the way I reckon. [11:43] maybe, maybe not [11:43] hydrogen is difficult to handle [11:43] There are losses in electrolysis [11:43] it leaks out of everything you put it in [11:43] so is petrol. [11:43] gas is the future [11:43] TheOpenSourcerer: fuel cells would be great, yeah [11:44] I read about a fuel cell which uses tiny pieces of iron to store power somehow [11:44] Places like Iceland can create Hydrogen at virtual zero cost (in energy). [11:44] The Hydrogen capital of the world... [11:45] A few years ago that was their plan. [11:46] popey: I can't actually see anything in that video that shows how they change the batteries [11:46] I need to wash out all my pots this weekend and prepare for the great Chilli Sowing :-D [11:51] gordonjcp: it shows them dropping the battery out the bottom of the car and a door closing [11:52] popey: yup [11:53] I don't trust it to be safe [11:53] it doesn't show how the electrical connections are made [11:58] looks like they are made by the car inside the closed compartment [11:59] AlanBell: yeah [11:59] I don't like the look of that [12:00] or it might be inside the battery [12:00] so the car might latch to the connectors while they are off, then the battery internally makes them live [12:01] yeah, but then they're still live when they're dangling under the car [12:02] getting sprayed with salty water as you drive on wet slushy roads [12:02] it is a closed compartment [12:03] they've changed the design a lot since the first generation of that car [12:03] previous videos had a massive flat battery that covered most of the underside of the car [12:03] and they never had a closing door before [12:03] also the battery charge stations are powered by renewable electricity [12:07] heh that video gives me adverts for the Nissan Leaf [12:08] gas is the answer [12:08] we're never going to run out of it [12:08] I thought gas was similarly limited as oil. [12:08] oil running out is going to be a problem for electric cars [12:09] dwatkins: no, you can always make more [12:09] oh cool, so we just use geothermal energy and solar/wind power to make gas... [12:09] once oil gets scarce, electric cars are going to be just as stuck as fossil fuel driven ones [12:09] dwatkins: mostly I'd use cows... [12:09] how come, gordonjcp? because electricity has to be generated somehow? [12:10] dwatkins: no, because where are you going to get lubricating oils and plastic components from? [12:10] there is plenty of untapped hydrothermal energy [12:10] ah yes, plastics etc. are also an issue - I guess we'd best start recycling the great pacific garbage patch with bacteria. [12:10] dwatkins: yup [12:10] dwatkins: an electric car takes just as much energy to make as a petrol car [12:10] wish me luck - time to re-boot and delete these bloody partitions [12:10] and that's the *real* energy cost [12:11] I read about a kid who developed a bacteria to do this, not heard of any commercial projects yet. [12:11] the fuel it takes is irrelevant [12:11] hope all goes well, ubuntubhoy [12:11] gordonjcp: yeah, and I guess solar/wind don't make up for oil by a long way [12:12] electric vehicles can also be very durable, since electric motors are simple and easy to recondition [12:12] less moving parts, I imagine. [12:12] far less [12:12] no explosions [12:13] with brushless motors very little friction [12:13] occupy64k: yes, they can be nearly as durable as diesel engines [12:26] morning [12:26] afternoon [12:26] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ds43EFwOcM [12:26] looks really painfully slow [12:26] the hour is not after noon [12:27] <1pm is morning :) [12:28] in 1884 when the internal combustion engine was invented, there was an absolute flurry of tweets about the poor range of the engine, reliability etc. I've got the IRC logs somewhere.. [12:28] hahaha [12:29] popey was very vocal even then :D [12:31] seriously, electricity via renewables will come to be the answer by the middle of the century. Maybe with a smattering of fusion (if anyone can get it to work). More solar energy hits the planet's surface every hour than the world uses in a month [12:31] .. atm [12:31] ;) [12:32] world being humans? [12:33] i think the trees would be unhappy if we stole their solar energy :p [12:33] jacobw: yes, americans included ;) [12:33] jacobw: World being earth [12:34] crops/trees are a pretty efficient way of using solar energy [12:34] danfish: so.. throw another log on the fire, I want to pass that car? [12:34] punch trees [12:34] but then we run out of food growing space.... [12:34] danfish: the thing is, electric cars have been around since before IC-engined cars [12:35] danfish: and they're still not really much better than they were 50 years ago [12:35] gordonjcp: but only now is battery tech really improving [12:35] MartijnVdS: but that's only half the battle [12:35] gordonjcp: thanks in part to mobile devices (phones), but also Big Money is now behing electric cars [12:35] you've still got to charge the batteries, and that's always going to take ages [12:36] gordonjcp: Big caps instead of batteries then? [12:36] MartijnVdS: doesn't help [12:36] the problem is not what you store the electricity in [12:36] the problem is that you have to move electricity around [12:37] and that's a problem how? [12:37] We have a huge infrastructure for that [12:37] it might need upgrades [12:37] but power infrastructure is a solved problem [12:38] no, you're not quite getting the scale of it [12:38] a gallon of diesel contains about 40kWh of energy [12:38] to transfer that energy takes about a minute [12:38] local generation of energy mustn't be overlooked [12:39] you tip a 1-gallon container into the tank of your car, that's you dumped 40kWh of energy in [12:39] 40kW off the mains would be 166A [12:39] so you'd need to charge your battery off 240V mains for an hour at 166A [12:40] okay, the electric car is going to turn more of that energy into motion [12:40] So more V [12:40] or three phase [12:40]