[00:00] <Supe> hey ctuser
[00:00] <Nafallo> jacobw: stanstead have started charging for them, the evil bastards.
[00:01] <Nafallo> I had to smuggle my contacts in some deep pocket of my bag last time.
[00:01] <jutnux> The_Fred: #android
[00:01] <jutnux> Anyways, now going all, bye.
[00:01] <jacobw> Nafallo: that is evil :(
[00:01] <jacobw> bye jutnux
[00:01] <Supe> see ya jutnux
[00:01] <Supe> thanks for help
[00:02] <The_Fred> jutnux, thanks, but i've got the android side up and running (reding sensors, sending button click events, etc, its how to capture the data on ubuntu that has me stumped for now
[00:09] <Supe> guys
[00:09] <Supe> if i'm doing a boot repair, would you recommend terminal or graphical?
[00:09] <Supe> this is for my dual boot etc.
[00:10] <jacobw> erm
[00:10] <jacobw> what is giving you the choice?
[00:10] <Supe> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[00:11] <jacobw> terminal is easier
[00:11] <Supe> ok cool
[00:12] <Supe> is this likely to erase my current ubuntu installation?
[00:12] <ali1234> no
[00:12] <Supe> i've not touched the partitions when installing windows - oly my windows
[00:12] <Supe> great
[00:13] <Supe> do i want to repair the swap or linux partition?
[00:13] <ali1234> the linux partition
[00:13] <Supe> thanks
[00:14] <Supe> says error - can't find a device for /boot/grub - is /dev mounted?
[00:15] <Supe> i did -  "sudo grub-install /dev/sda5"
[00:17] <Supe> any ideas?
[00:17] <Supe> i can do a pastebin if it helps
[00:18] <ubuntubhoy> the easy way is this in terminal
[00:18] <ubuntubhoy> sudo mount /dev/sdaX /mnt
[00:18] <ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /proc /dev/proc
[00:18] <ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /sys /dev/sys
[00:18] <ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /dev /dev/dev
[00:19] <ubuntubhoy> sudo chroot /mnt
[00:19] <ubuntubhoy> sudo grub-install /dev/sda
[00:19] <Supe> on the second line - it says /dev/proc does not exist
[00:19] <ubuntubhoy> sudo update-grub
[00:19] <ubuntubhoy> dont know what you have done to this point, so you may need to reboot
[00:19] <Supe> so far
[00:20] <Supe> i've just put in liveusb
[00:20] <Supe> terminal
[00:20] <Supe> sudo fdisk -l
[00:20] <Supe> and then your first line you gave me
[00:20] <ubuntubhoy> K
[00:20] <ubuntubhoy> oops
[00:20] <ubuntubhoy> change the /dev/ to /mnt/
[00:21] <Supe> pastebin.ubuntu.com/795495
[00:21] <ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc
[00:21] <ubuntubhoy> etc
[00:21] <Supe> ah
[00:22] <Supe> that's going through now so far, thanks
[00:22] <Supe> putting the rest int
[00:22] <Supe> in
[00:24] <Supe> ah
[00:24] <Supe> encountered an error
[00:24] <Supe> let me pastebin it
[00:25] <Supe> pastebin.ubuntu.com/795503
[00:25] <ubuntubhoy> thats fine
[00:25] <ubuntubhoy> your good to reboot
[00:25] <Supe> oh, it's worked?
[00:25] <Supe> i haven't done the sudo update-grub
[00:26] <Supe> should i do that right?
[00:26] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[00:26] <Supe> ok
[00:26] <Supe> lets see if this works
[00:27] <Supe> while i was downloading ubuntu i got my gfx driver all installed on windows - so i'm hoping this all works perfectly now - both OS
[00:27] <Supe> thanks ubuntubhoy - it looks to have worked, grub bootloader there now
[00:27] <Supe> you're a legend :)
[00:27] <ubuntubhoy> nope
[00:27] <ubuntubhoy> I have just made an arse of it that many times myself
[00:28] <ubuntubhoy> I know the getout code now :D
[00:28] <Supe> haha
[01:05] <awilkins> I used to keep multiple partitions on a USB stick
[01:05] <awilkins> One FAT32 to swap files back and forth, then a LiveCD
[01:06] <awilkins> You have to put the FAT32 first because Windows figures "USB stick, only has one partition on it, oh, this isn't a filesystem I know, derp, derp"
[02:37] <directhex> not only windows that does that. PS3 will only use first partition on usb
[03:09] <Supermanintights> I did something similar
[03:09] <Supermanintights> I used to just set the fat32 to drive a:/ and the ps3 recognised it, as my other partition was NTFS - drive J:/
[03:45] <Seeker`> morning
[09:11] <popey> Good morning all.
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning popey
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> et al.
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds nice - The OLPC XO 3.0 to be launched next week at CES: http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/electronics-news/4234013/Marvell-and-One-Laptop-per-Child-Unveil-the-XO-3-0-Tablet
[09:22] <mungojerry> morning
[09:23] <mungojerry> i think somebody just let the cat out of the bag regarding canonicals surprise for CES
[09:29]  * popey wonders where
[09:32] <popey> mungojerry: interesting ☺
[09:33] <popey> mungojerry: care to elaborate?
[09:34] <mungojerry> popey, bbc article re ces, wanna link
[09:34] <popey> ya
[09:34] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
[09:34] <mungojerry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
[09:34] <mungojerry> yarp
[09:35] <popey> ☺
[09:36] <popey> thanks for that
[09:36] <popey> not sure it says anything we didnt already say does it?
[09:37] <mungojerry> It has made the leap to promote an early prototype of a Ubuntu-based connected television as well as to show off the netbooks and laptops normally associated with its code.
[09:38] <mungojerry> hadn.t heard any concrete mention of actual device previously
[09:38] <mungojerry> especially alongside quotes from jane silber
[09:40] <mungojerry> we.ve all seen mockups of various bits and bobs, maybe i.m readin
[09:40] <mungojerry> too literally
[09:42] <popey> interesting
[09:48] <ubuntubhoy> need some help guys - I have a netbook with messed up a partition table after recovering with testdisk
[09:48] <ubuntubhoy> gparted wont read it as it says that the extended patition goes beyond the end of the disk
[09:49] <ubuntubhoy> I want to wipe the lot apart from 1 data partition
[09:49] <ubuntubhoy> whats the best way to set about it
[09:49] <ubuntubhoy> also cant copy to an external device
[10:00] <AlanBell> so what is running on that? http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57717000/jpg/_57717084_ubuntuwebbook3.jpg
[10:14] <ubuntubhoy> the question has changed, how do I delete an extended partition and all the logical partitions within from the terminal ?
[10:14] <ubuntubhoy> leaving any preceeding primary partitions intact
[10:17] <dwatkins> carefully ;)
[10:17] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[10:17] <dwatkins> seriously, you can use fdisk or gparted, assuming either understands the partition table (i.e. if it's not GPT)
[10:17] <ubuntubhoy> am I best clearing the table with testdisk & only adding the primary parts back
[10:18] <ubuntubhoy> dwatkins, gparted wont read it
[10:18] <dwatkins> I'd get the partition mountable you want to copy data from, make two copies and wipe the disk.
[10:18] <dwatkins> ubuntubhoy: how about fdisk?
[10:18] <ubuntubhoy> it reads it fine
[10:18] <dwatkins> ok cool, then you can manipulate it with fdisk in theory
[10:18] <ubuntubhoy> but iirc it will only delete the logical, not the extended
[10:19] <dwatkins> I don't remember fdisk having that restriction.
[10:19] <ubuntubhoy> when I list it only shows primary & logical
[10:19] <ubuntubhoy> not the extended container
[10:20] <ubuntubhoy> infact your right
[10:20] <ubuntubhoy> just checked again
[10:20] <ubuntubhoy> that should do it
[10:20] <dwatkins> cool
[10:20] <dwatkins> always have two copies of anything important
[10:20] <ubuntubhoy> looking at it too long without actually reading
[10:21] <dwatkins> I know the feeling :)
[10:21] <ubuntubhoy> will copy the data to a primary part before the extended
[10:21] <ubuntubhoy> wipe the rest & re-install everything
[10:25] <dwatkins> I'd strongly suggest putting it on a separate device and backing up externally to somewhere in another building/town/solar system if possible
[10:25] <dwatkins> you never know...
[10:27] <ubuntubhoy> if I had the option it would make the whole thing a load easier
[10:27] <dwatkins> can't you can an internet connection from the machine?
[10:27] <ubuntubhoy> the really importent stuff is on my dropbox account
[10:27] <dwatkins> ok cool
[10:27] <ubuntubhoy> but there is some other stuff that would be 'handy' to hold onto
[10:27] <ubuntubhoy> but not vital
[10:28] <dwatkins> there's also wetransfer.com for temporary storage, if you're desperate
[10:28] <dwatkins> although it's meant for sending files, it can take a single file up to 2 GB.
[10:28] <ubuntubhoy> internet aint the best here
[10:29] <ubuntubhoy> would take a life time for 30G
[10:29] <dwatkins> ah I see
[10:29] <dwatkins> I was surprised how small 16 GB USB flash drives can be, practically the size of the port plus 4mm
[10:30] <occupy64k> I'm running my entire web site off of a 16GB flash drive
[10:30] <occupy64k> Makes it easy to create backups
[10:30] <dwatkins> I used to run my server off a 4GB CF card in an IDE adapter.
[10:30] <dwatkins> indeed, occupy64k
[10:30] <dwatkins> also, nice nickname ;)
[10:30] <occupy64k> thanks
[10:31] <dwatkins> who needs more than 640k...
[10:31] <occupy64k> well I'm still not using the whole 16GB and there's plenty of headroom remaining
[10:31] <dwatkins> I'm looking forward to getting a Raspberry Pi and running it off a small flash drive.
[10:32] <dwatkins> What services do you run on the machine, occupy64k? Just apache?
[10:33] <occupy64k> No, many things.  Mediawiki, bitcoin, bookmarks, calendar, taskwarrior, FTP, photos
[10:33] <dwatkins> neat
[10:33] <occupy64k> and email
[10:33] <occupy64k> with Roundcube
[10:33] <dwatkins> I liked the look of Roundcube when I looked into it.
[10:34] <occupy64k> It's ok.  Not as many features as gmail, but I don't need all those things
[10:34] <dwatkins> My new server is a flash-based netbook, its / has 16 GB
[10:36] <occupy64k> My lesson from the last couple of years is that it's easy to run your own server, and provides many benefits
[10:36] <dwatkins> this reminds me, I have a minimalist homepage to update :)
[11:03] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:04] <dwatkins> hi brobostigon
[11:05] <brobostigon> hi dwatkins
[11:06] <dwatkins> how goes it?
[11:06] <brobostigon> dwatkins:  not so good, about the same yesterday, my eczema isnt better, and still feeling ill. and you?
[11:07] <dwatkins> bah and bah, I can relate to that a little as I have very dry skin on my hands and have just gotten over a really lengthy cold
[11:07] <brobostigon> ok.
[11:07] <dwatkins> a nurse friend of mine reccomended Hydromol, it's waxy but seems to help.
[11:08] <dwatkins> moving to Scotland seems to have completely dried-out my knuckles
[11:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Stop dragging them along the ground when you walk ;-)
[11:09] <dwatkins> lol, oook
[11:09] <brobostigon> dwatkins: my creams are all ointment like, so very similer.
[11:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to replace the door mirror on my Volvo. Seems a bit moot now that someone drove into the other door and fscked the wing too. Car will probably a write-off when they examine it in a week. :-(
[11:10] <dwatkins> my brother avoids orange juice as he believes it's a trigger
[11:10] <dwatkins> bah, TheOpenSourcerer :(
[11:10] <bigcalm> Miss-read as "he believes it's a tiger"
[11:11] <dwatkins> rawr
[11:11] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[11:12] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
[11:12] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: doesn't sound terribly hard to fix
[11:12] <brobostigon> dwatkins: in theory, any of my allergies including weather, could trigeer, inclusive of state of mind.
[11:12] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: hassle them to give you Cat C or Cat D writeoff and sell it back to you
[11:13] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: you'll *probably* get it back for scrap value or a little more, and get your insurance payout
[11:13] <gordonjcp> then you just stick another door and wing on from a scrappy
[11:13] <dwatkins> hey bigcalm
[11:13] <kvarley> Which tool should I use to filter the output of ifconfig to show only the local ip address of eth0? I have heard of awk, is that an appropriate tool?
[11:14] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: then what you do is every time you look out your window at your repaired car sitting on the driveway you think "haha, up yours, insurance company!"
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: you shouldn't parse ifconfig output
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe "ip addr" output
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: but ifconfig is obsolete
[11:18] <popey> +1
[11:18] <dwatkins> is there a simpler way than parsing "ip addr", MartijnVdS?
[11:18] <dwatkins> e.g. something in /proc which just returns the IP address
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: maybe
[11:19]  * dwatkins does a grep -R
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> /proc/net/fib_trie has something
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> Doing the same ioctls/syscalls as "ip" does isn't an option I guess :)
[11:20] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Found this nice little bit of code online =] "ifconfig | sed -n -e 's/:127\.0\.0\.1 //g' -e 's/ *inet addr:\([0-9.]\+\).*/\1/gp'"
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: ifconfig is obsolete, and won't show all IP addresses on the interface if there are more
[11:21] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Hmmm, what would be the "best" way?
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: what do you want to know, and why? :)
[11:21] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm thinking of the need to find out the current IP address from bash, I guess looking up the current hostname might be an option
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that might not match
[11:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> gordonjcp: What's Cat C/D mean?
[11:22] <dwatkins> Yeah, I was just thinking the same, MartijnVdS
[11:22] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: My local IP address so I can SSH/SSHFS/SCP in from my netbook when the .local domain name doesn't work
[11:22] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I suspect I could use python to get it =]
[11:22] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: cat C is that is not badly damaged but uneconomical to repair
[11:22] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: ie. the parts and labour would be too expensive
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: reverse tunnel ;)
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: 1 second while I look that up
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds about right - The car's probably only worth ~£1k
[11:23] <dwatkins> kvarley: does your router not use the machine's hostname?
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: http://www.howtoforge.com/reverse-ssh-tunneling
[11:23] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: cat D is that it *is* economically viable to repair it, but there is some other factor that makes it not viable
[11:23] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: if it's a bolt-on wing then you can change it in about half an hour
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, someone can. Not me ;-)
[11:24] <popey> heh
[11:24] <popey> was about to say that ☺
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno if a 98/9 V70 has bolt-on wings or not.
[11:24] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: can you open up a PC case to fix things?
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh Yes.
[11:24] <gordonjcp> well then
[11:24] <gordonjcp> same thing
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bit different.
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cars are dirty and big.
[11:25] <gordonjcp> yeah, you're using a 10mm socket instead of a philips screwdriver
[11:25] <gordonjcp> open up the bonnet and see if there's a little line of bolts in the channel at the edge of the bonnet opening
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> And you have to scrabble around on cold concrete floors.
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Rather give someone money to that kind of thing.
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/do
[11:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mind you I have just managed to replace the door mirror without breaking the replacement or me ;-)
[11:27] <gordonjcp> fair enough
[11:27] <gordonjcp> also it's more ecologically friendly to keep your old car going than it is to buy a new one
[11:28] <dwatkins> I thought if the insurance company wrote off a car it meant they will never insure it again.
[11:28] <gordonjcp> no matter what you drive, it takes a lot more energy to make a car than it will ever use in its lifetime
[11:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed it is, but mine does drink petrol like
[11:28] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: nope
[11:28] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: evens o
[11:28] <gordonjcp> *even so
[11:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's a 2.4L Turbo and a big and heavy car.
[11:29] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: you need a truly collossal amount of energy to smelt all the steel
[11:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'd like to get something a big smaller/more economical. The wifey wants a 7 seater people/child mover.
[11:29] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: wee diesel mpv then ;-)
[11:29] <occupy64k> Do you have 7 moving children?
[11:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> we need 2 cars. Currently an A Class and my Volvo.
[11:30] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: if you're going to get a diesel car get a French one
[11:30] <gordonjcp> they've been at it longer than everyone else
[11:30] <gordonjcp> except maybe Mercedes
[11:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> occupy64k: Nah but we have 2 and she does school runs and list shares.
[11:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> There are some pretty good lease deals on new Mercs right now...
[11:31] <occupy64k> With fuel costs as they are it makes sense to minimize redundant seats
[11:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Quite fancy the idea of a Golf TDi though.
[11:32] <gordonjcp> I like my Mercedes Vito
[11:32] <gordonjcp> although it's getting replaced with a Citroën Dispatch later this month
[11:32]  * popey hugs his V70 diesel
[11:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Our A class has been a good and reliable car. Mind you so has the Volvo. Both are about 10yr old now.
[11:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> what kind of mpg do you get popey ?
[11:34]  * Laney hugs his 18 speed hybrid
[11:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Try taking wife, 2 kids and a car full of baggage on that though Laney
[11:36] <Laney> nah, they just have their own + panniers
[11:36] <Laney> the fun of the cycle touring holiday /o\
[11:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm...
[11:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Tesco slips up? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f98e7ba-38a1-11e1-9d07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1iltRda7j
[11:36] <dwatkins> I hear the Nissan Leaf is pretty good, although I'd be concerned about running out of power on a long journey.
[11:37] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: no idea, 30 something
[11:37] <popey> i rarely drive it these days now I wfh
[11:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Where "long" means 60miles or so.
[11:37] <dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: ouch :-/
[11:38] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: yeah, I can't see me ever finding an electric car to be practical
[11:38] <dwatkins> I like the idea of electric cars, especially as the batteries can be swapped-out for a fast "recharge" but until the range is at least a couple hundred miles, I guess they won't be so popular.
[11:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: You still interested in a community workspace idea? Might need to talk about it a bit more over a beer sometime.
[11:38] <popey> YES!
[11:38] <dwatkins> I'm lucky - my drive to work is about 4.5 miles, but I have no way of charging an electric car as I live in a 3rd floor flat. I plan to start cycling this year.
[11:39] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: you could charge it at work
[11:39] <popey> 'better way' is the better way to do electric cars
[11:39] <popey> you dont charge it
[11:39] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: you could buy a petrol generator to plug it into
[11:39] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: perhaps, yeah
[11:39] <popey> you drive into a station and swap batteries
[11:39] <popey> takes same time as a fuel-up conventional car
[11:39] <gordonjcp> popey: I can't really see that working
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hydrogen Fuel Cell FTW!
[11:39] <dwatkins> popey: yeah, I don't believe there's a swapping-station in Edinburgh but yes
[11:40] <popey> better place, not better way
[11:40] <popey> dwatkins: yet
[11:40] <gordonjcp> popey: how do you design a connector that is easy to connect and disconnect, can handle hundreds of volts at hundreds of amps, and remains safe even when being sprayed with salty water?
[11:40] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Os25gP4yA
[11:40] <dwatkins> popey: yeah, I imagine that'll change as petrol and diesel get more expensive
[11:40] <occupy64k> Those connectors are common in industry
[11:40] <popey> you dont
[11:40] <popey> they rip the battery out and put another in
[11:40] <gordonjcp> popey: right, but *how*
[11:41] <gordonjcp> there must be some means of connecting it to the rest of the car
[11:41] <popey> watch the video
[11:41] <gordonjcp> popey: I tried already, someone else pointed it out
[11:42] <gordonjcp> is there a transcript or something, or possibly a version in english?
[11:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> We went to this http://www.ecovelocity.co.uk/ a few months ago. Electric cars are still not ready for prime time IMHO. Fuel Cells will be the way I reckon.
[11:43] <gordonjcp> maybe, maybe not
[11:43] <gordonjcp> hydrogen is difficult to handle
[11:43] <occupy64k> There are losses in electrolysis
[11:43] <gordonjcp> it leaks out of everything you put it in
[11:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> so is petrol.
[11:43] <gordonjcp> gas is the future
[11:43] <dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: fuel cells would be great, yeah
[11:44] <dwatkins> I read about a fuel cell which uses tiny pieces of iron to store power somehow
[11:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Places like Iceland can create Hydrogen at virtual zero cost (in energy).
[11:44] <dwatkins> The Hydrogen capital of the world...
[11:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> A few years ago that was their plan.
[11:46] <gordonjcp> popey: I can't actually see anything in that video that shows how they change the batteries
[11:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> I need to wash out all my pots this weekend and prepare for the great Chilli Sowing :-D
[11:51] <popey> gordonjcp: it shows them dropping the battery out the bottom of the car and a door closing
[11:52] <gordonjcp> popey: yup
[11:53] <gordonjcp> I don't trust it to be safe
[11:53] <gordonjcp> it doesn't show how the electrical connections are made
[11:58] <AlanBell> looks like they are made by the car inside the closed compartment
[11:59] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah
[11:59] <gordonjcp> I don't like the look of that
[12:00] <AlanBell> or it might be inside the battery
[12:00] <AlanBell> so the car might latch to the connectors while they are off, then the battery internally makes them live
[12:01] <gordonjcp> yeah, but then they're still live when they're dangling under the car
[12:02] <gordonjcp> getting sprayed with salty water as you drive on wet slushy roads
[12:02] <AlanBell> it is a closed compartment
[12:03] <popey> they've changed the design a lot since the first generation of that car
[12:03] <popey> previous videos had a massive flat battery that covered most of the underside of the car
[12:03] <popey> and they never had a closing door before
[12:03] <popey> also the battery charge stations are powered by renewable electricity
[12:07] <dwatkins> heh that video gives me adverts for the Nissan Leaf
[12:08] <gordonjcp> gas is the answer
[12:08] <gordonjcp> we're never going to run out of it
[12:08] <dwatkins> I thought gas was similarly limited as oil.
[12:08] <gordonjcp> oil running out is going to be a problem for electric cars
[12:09] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: no, you can always make more
[12:09] <dwatkins> oh cool, so we just use geothermal energy and solar/wind power to make gas...
[12:09] <gordonjcp> once oil gets scarce, electric cars are going to be just as stuck as fossil fuel driven ones
[12:09] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: mostly I'd use cows...
[12:09] <dwatkins> how come, gordonjcp? because electricity has to be generated somehow?
[12:10] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: no, because where are you going to get lubricating oils and plastic components from?
[12:10] <occupy64k> there is plenty of untapped hydrothermal energy
[12:10] <dwatkins> ah yes, plastics etc. are also an issue - I guess we'd best start recycling the great pacific garbage patch with bacteria.
[12:10] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: yup
[12:10] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: an electric car takes just as much energy to make as a petrol car
[12:10] <ubuntubhoy> wish me luck - time to re-boot and delete these bloody partitions
[12:10] <gordonjcp> and that's the *real* energy cost
[12:11] <dwatkins> I read about a kid who developed a bacteria to do this, not heard of any commercial projects yet.
[12:11] <gordonjcp> the fuel it takes is irrelevant
[12:11] <dwatkins> hope all goes well, ubuntubhoy
[12:11] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: yeah, and I guess solar/wind don't make up for oil by a long way
[12:12] <occupy64k> electric vehicles can also be very durable, since electric motors are simple and easy to recondition
[12:12] <dwatkins> less moving parts, I imagine.
[12:12] <occupy64k> far less
[12:12] <dwatkins> no explosions
[12:13] <occupy64k> with brushless motors very little friction
[12:13] <gordonjcp> occupy64k: yes, they can be nearly as durable as diesel engines
[12:26] <jacobw> morning
[12:26] <danfish> afternoon
[12:26] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ds43EFwOcM
[12:26] <popey> looks really painfully slow
[12:26] <jacobw> the hour is not after noon
[12:27] <jacobw> <1pm is morning :)
[12:28] <danfish> in 1884 when the internal combustion engine was invented, there was an absolute flurry of tweets about the poor range of the engine, reliability etc. I've got the IRC logs somewhere..
[12:28] <jacobw> hahaha
[12:29] <danfish> popey was very vocal even then :D
[12:31] <danfish> seriously, electricity via renewables will come to be the answer by the middle of the century. Maybe with a smattering of fusion (if anyone can get it to work). More solar energy hits the planet's surface every hour than the world uses in a month
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> .. atm
[12:31] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[12:32] <jacobw> world being humans?
[12:33] <jacobw> i think the trees would be unhappy if we stole their solar energy :p
[12:33] <danfish> jacobw: yes, americans included ;)
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: World being earth
[12:34] <danfish> crops/trees are a pretty efficient way of using solar energy
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> danfish: so.. throw another log on the fire, I want to pass that car?
[12:34] <popey> punch trees
[12:34] <danfish> but then we run out of food growing space....
[12:34] <gordonjcp> danfish: the thing is, electric cars have been around since before IC-engined cars
[12:35] <gordonjcp> danfish: and they're still not really much better than they were 50 years ago
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: but only now is battery tech really improving
[12:35] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: but that's only half the battle
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: thanks in part to mobile devices (phones), but also Big Money is now behing electric cars
[12:35] <gordonjcp> you've still got to charge the batteries, and that's always going to take ages
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Big caps instead of batteries then?
[12:36] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: doesn't help
[12:36] <gordonjcp> the problem is not what you store the electricity in
[12:36] <gordonjcp> the problem is that you have to move electricity around
[12:37] <danfish> and that's a problem how?
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> We have a huge infrastructure for that
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> it might need upgrades
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> but power infrastructure is a solved problem
[12:38] <gordonjcp> no, you're not quite getting the scale of it
[12:38] <gordonjcp> a gallon of diesel contains about 40kWh of energy
[12:38] <gordonjcp> to transfer that energy takes about a minute
[12:38] <danfish> local generation of energy mustn't be overlooked
[12:39] <gordonjcp> you tip a 1-gallon container into the tank of your car, that's you dumped 40kWh of energy in
[12:39] <gordonjcp> 40kW off the mains would be 166A
[12:39] <gordonjcp> so you'd need to charge your battery off 240V mains for an hour at 166A
[12:40] <gordonjcp> okay, the electric car is going to turn more of that energy into motion
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> So more V
[12:40] <danfish> or three phase
[12:40] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: okay, so then you're talking about say 2.4kV at 16A
[12:40] <gordonjcp> this is still not nice
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Check out how Nissan's Leaf charges..
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> Charging an electric car overnight or while you're at work is a more viable option than having a tanker car refilling every car in the street every night
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> so you wouldn't need as many or as much roadside recharging
[12:41] <danfish> http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/03/24/quick-charge-battery-developments/
[12:43] <gordonjcp> it'll be interesting to see how many charge/discharge cycles that can withstand
[12:43] <danfish> I'm running a honda civic that's done 80,000 and is more than capable of getting to 150,000. I fully intend to drive it as far as I can, and by then I fully expect an electric car for the journeys I do to be the norm
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> I seldom drive more than an hour away
[12:43] <danfish> who is it who does a podcast from his civic?
[12:43] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I seldom drive *less* than an hour away
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: So we have different use-cases. Maybe the car market needs to "split" into "Long-distance" and "short-distance" cars
[12:44] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: my daily commute to work and back is about half an hour each way, but most days I go there for a quick meeting and a coffee, and then go and drive a couple of hundred miles
[12:44] <danfish> Dave Yates from tllts
[12:44] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: exactly
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> I love my Smart ;)
[12:45] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm being deliberately contentious because I get annoyed by the "everyone should drive an electric car" brigade
[12:45] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: an electric car will never really be able to cope with my requirements
[12:45] <danfish> gordonjcp: can you actually be sure that that will always be the case?
[12:45] <occupy64k> Never is a strong term
[12:45] <gordonjcp> danfish: pretty much
[12:46] <gordonjcp> I can easily put 1000 miles on my van in a week
[12:46] <occupy64k> Computers wil never need more than 640K
[12:46]  * MartijnVdS invents cold fusion, small enough to put on the roof of  gordonjcp's car
[12:46] <danfish> I have to disagree and will place that in the "there will be world need for four computers" pile :D
[12:46] <gordonjcp> danfish: <shrug>
[12:47] <gordonjcp> danfish: where I live there is very little public transport and the sites I work on are within a radius of several hundred miles
[12:47] <occupy64k> Aeroplanes will never play a decisive role in any future war
[12:47] <gordonjcp> danfish: if I didn't do the job I'm using now, I'd most likely move back up north where there is *no* public transport and everything is even further apart
[12:47] <gordonjcp> people who live in cities don't need cars *at all*
[12:48] <gordonjcp> well, assuming they also work in the same city
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> Oop Norf ;)
[12:48] <gordonjcp> even then they're likely within easy reach of public transport
[12:48] <gordonjcp> even as far south as maybe yorkshire there's good public transport links
[12:56] <danfish> gordonjcp: It will be a gradual process I suspect. I'm still waiting for my flying car ;)
[12:56] <daubers> Afternoon
[12:56] <danfish> o/
[12:56] <gordonjcp> danfish: I don't see how car manufacturers are going to solve the oil problem
[12:57] <danfish> daubers: saw your mqtt bzr thing, nice
[12:57] <gordonjcp> danfish: maybe thermal depolymerisation of plastics to make the oils and greases?
[12:57] <danfish> gordonjcp: oils from vegetables?
[12:57] <gordonjcp> danfish: no good as lubricants
[12:58] <danfish> gordonjcp: if polymerised?
[12:58] <gordonjcp> they go off and just turn into gluey yuck
[12:58] <gordonjcp> I'm sure there's a way to do it, but it might not be very energy-efficient ;-)
[12:58] <occupy64k> fossil oil isn't going away any time soon.  It will just become more expensive, to the point where it's no longer economical to burn.
[12:59] <gordonjcp> engine oil lasts a lot longer when you run on gas, which is a good start
[13:03] <danfish> do you think I can port debian to run on the civic?
[13:05] <gordonjcp> danfish: depends what's in the various ECUs
[13:07] <daubers> danfish: Fun toy if nothing else
[13:08] <gordonjcp> I wouldn't be surprised if some of the body ECUs in cars ran some sort of Linux
[13:11] <penguin42> hmm, I would - I'd hope all the ECU code is safety-critical approved
[13:12] <AlanBell> that doesn't exclude Linux
[13:15] <kvarley> Wine - Error loading font! (tahoma.ttf) - Any ideas?
[13:15] <penguin42> AlanBell: Has Linux got that level of approval on anything?
[13:17] <Seeker`> penguin42: He doesn't mean car ECUs are running ubuntu
[13:17] <penguin42> Seeker`: I don't mean a distro - I mean even the kernel
[13:20] <AlanBell> not sure that an ECU needs that much code, more arduino level stuff, and I don't know that much about safety certs, I know a bit about QS9000 in automobile sector
[13:20] <jacobw> linux 2.4 is probably still used in some embedded things
[13:20] <AlanBell> government security certification isn't on products but on complete solutions
[13:24] <AlanBell> !info msttcorefonts | kvarley
[13:24] <AlanBell> dammit
[13:24] <AlanBell> !info cheese
[13:24] <kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks, I resorted to copying the fonts from my windows install partition
[13:25] <kvarley> AlanBell: For some reason I hadn't installed them the usual way on this distro
[13:29] <directhex> better to nick them from windows anyway
[13:29] <directhex> msttcorefonts are ancient versions with most unicode missing
[14:24] <palnj> anyone home?
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> !ask
[14:26] <daubers> palnj: Hello
[14:27] <popey> moo
[14:28]  * daubers starts to win with c++ and makefiles
[14:28]  * MartijnVdS weeps for daubers 
[14:28]  * penguin42 hands daubers a type 6 template ahmmer
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> + sanity
[14:28] <penguin42> hammer
[14:30] <daubers> It's only taken me a couple of hours to understand wth is going on with it :D
[14:30] <penguin42> daubers: What was the problem?
[14:30] <AlanBell> !info cheese
[14:30] <AlanBell> oneiric version number \o/
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> \o/ smart boy
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> bot
[14:31] <AlanBell> !gender
[14:31]  * penguin42 expected a commentary about wensledale
[14:32] <MartijnVdS> hmm cheese
[14:32] <daubers> penguin42: That I've never tought myself how to do it properly
[14:32]  * AlanBell still has a pot of stilton from christmas
[14:32]  * daubers still has half a wheel of bree from christmas
[14:33] <MartijnVdS> Brie, I hope
[14:33] <daubers> Thats the welly
[15:26] <palnj> !hello
[15:27] <palnj> !bot
[15:27] <palnj> !bye
[15:27] <palnj> !bot
[15:27] <palnj> !help
[15:27] <palnj> !question
[15:28] <palnj> !users
[15:28] <palnj> !yum
[15:28] <palnj> !rpm
[15:28] <Azelphur> palnj: If you want to play with the bot, please take it to a PM
[15:28] <palnj> Azelphur: fine...
[15:29] <palnj> kinda quiet today, isn't it?
[15:29] <Azelphur> indeed
[15:31] <AlanBell> palnj: also you can have a look at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi to see the stuff it says
[15:35] <palnj> ah cool
[15:58] <Supermanintights> hey guys, i've just plugged in my vga cable to my monitor, set it up for twinview on nvidia x server settings, but my mouse won't let me go onto my second screen
[15:58] <Supermanintights> any suggestions?
[15:59] <Azelphur> Supermanintights: did you just hit apply, or save it to X config?
[15:59] <Supermanintights> ern
[15:59] <Supermanintights> i did apply first, it went weird and the timer ran out before it settled, then i pressed save to x config, followed instructions, then clicked apply
[16:00] <Azelphur> try save to X config, then reboot.
[16:00] <Supermanintights> well i've done save to x config
[16:00] <Supermanintights> reboot then?
[16:00] <Supermanintights> this is why i hated ubuntu last time with all this messing about with dual screens :(
[16:00] <Supermanintights> brb
[16:00] <Azelphur> yep :P
[16:02] <Supermanintights> seems to be working now, popped up with an error message at the start, but all good now
[16:02] <Supermanintights> thanks
[16:03] <Azelphur> yw :)
[16:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:07] <Supermanintights> ahola
[16:15] <AlanBell> czajkowski: \o/
[16:15] <AlanBell> are you fixed?
[16:56] <czajkowski> hope so
[17:03] <jutnux> Evening all
[18:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] It comes before a fall - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/01/07/it-comes-before-a-fall/
[18:14]  * jutnux reads
[18:14]  * popey chuckles
[18:27] <Azelphur> Does anyone know how much power is safe to draw from a typical home socket?
[18:28] <BigRedS> 13A generally
[18:28] <BigRedS> that's what they're fused at
[18:28] <BigRedS> so (13 * 240)W if you actually want raw power
[18:28] <Azelphur> so about 3.1kw
[18:28] <BigRedS> Cooker sockets are 45A IIRC
[18:28] <moreati> 13 * 230 V
[18:29] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, 230.
[18:29] <Azelphur> hehe, I'm going to be cutting it close :x
[18:29] <BigRedS> what're you doing?
[18:29] <Azelphur> pondering the idea of upgrading my bitcoin rig a bit
[18:30] <moreati> 13 A is the maximum fuse value. I'm not 100% sure that's the rated steady state maximum amperage though
[18:30] <Azelphur> can I just get a bigger fuse and sling it in there?
[18:30] <Azelphur> Is the limit at the plug or for the entire house? (I'm not at all good at electronics) XD
[18:30] <directhex> there aren't bigger fuses for BS 1363
[18:31] <AlanBell> the ring is probably going to trip out at 30A
[18:31] <danfish> not a good idea. The ring circuit will get very hot
[18:31] <moreati> and fitting a larger fuse almost certainly breaks the law and your house insurance
[18:31] <BigRedS> AlanBell: not really. Everything assumes that you've not fiddled with the innerds of the socket
[18:31] <BigRedS> Er, not AlanBell. Azelphur
[18:31] <Azelphur> Atm I'm pulling 1.7kw and it's doing ok
[18:31] <penguin42> 1.7kw is nothing
[18:31] <Azelphur> yea
[18:31] <penguin42> Azelphur: That's like 5A
[18:32] <Azelphur> Atm I've got 8 boards with 8 GPUs, I'm pondering the idea of switching to 2 boards with 14 GPUs
[18:32] <Azelphur> and some custom cases, \o/
[18:32] <penguin42> wow, there's some old junk on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-C7986A-Write-Once-Optical/dp/B000093S5M
[18:32] <Azelphur> penguin42: haha
[18:33] <danfish> we had an MRI scanner installed at work recently - had to install an electrical substation to power it :/
[18:33] <Azelphur> so yea, I dunno how much overhead the boards add, but if just assume I'd use the same per card wattage on the new build as I do now, it comes out at almost exactly 3.1kw
[18:33] <directhex> most ring mains are 30A or 32A max
[18:34] <Azelphur> I guess It'll be a bit less than that though, as there will be less overhead (less 2 psu's instead of 14 and 2 mobos instead of 14)
[18:34] <danfish> Azelphur: bare in mind 3.1kw = approcx £3100/year in lecci bills
[18:35] <moreati> I'm having difficulty imagining a PC emitting 3.1 kW of heat and remaining functional
[18:35] <Azelphur> danfish: I pay 6p/kwh
[18:35] <Azelphur> danfish: the 1774w I'm currently using comes to about £78/mo.
[18:36] <Azelphur> moreati: that's why it has a dedicated AC :P
[18:36] <danfish> Azelphur: that's not too bad
[18:37] <Azelphur> danfish: yea, perks of living in margate I guess (right next to the worlds largest offshore wind farm)
[18:37] <moreati> I assume your gas/heating bill is lower as a result
[18:38] <Azelphur> moreati: hehe :)
[18:39] <Azelphur> gonna be interesting building a case with airflow for 7 GPU's, ahah
[18:40] <penguin42> why 1 case?
[18:40] <Azelphur> penguin42: because 1 board?
[18:41] <penguin42> hmm - Nvidia did some external GPU systems
[18:41] <moreati> Is the 230 V rating of mains RMS or peak-to-peak?
[18:41] <penguin42> RMS
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> Richard M Stallman?
[18:41] <moreati> root mean square
[18:41] <Azelphur> penguin42: nvidia isn't very good at SHA256
[18:41] <moreati> it accounts of the sinsusoidal-ness when calculating power with V * I
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> moreati: I know what it means, it's just acronym overlap :)
[18:43] <moreati> MartijnVdS: Ah I missed the silent :) ;)
[18:45] <Azelphur> Is there any way I can cheat somehow and get more power from somewhere?
[18:45] <moreati> Though there is an open circuit <-> open source vs GNU-Voltage joke in there :|
[18:45] <Azelphur> (Should I need it)
[18:45] <penguin42> Azelphur: Get another rind
[18:45] <penguin42> g
[18:45] <Azelphur> how much does that cost to have done?
[18:46] <penguin42> Azelphur: Ask an electrician, if there is enough room on your existing fuse board then I doubt more than £200???
[18:46] <Azelphur> not too bad
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> Solar panels, windmills?
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> "I'm mining bitcoins with the power of NATUREW""
[18:46] <Azelphur> Haha, I looked into solar and wind but I don't think there's anything I could bring into an apartment that would generate enough power to even put a dent in it
[18:47] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I know a guy with a solar powered cluster in australia that is doing that :D
[18:47] <shauno> a solar powered cluster here would probably take 3 weeks to finish booting :/
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> shauno: and then shut down for lack of power
[18:48] <Azelphur> haha
[18:48] <penguin42> I guess .au has some useful amount of sun
[18:49] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> Yes, a nice sunny island.. and you shipped your prisoners there instead of your population.. :)
[18:51] <moreati> MartijnVdS: that's just the story they told us lot who got left behind
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> moreati: ah yes the deadly animals
[19:00] <jutnux> Transportation \o/
[19:39] <popey> ebenink
[19:39] <popey> stupid screen and its not updating rubbish
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> thanks for your password :P
[19:41] <popey> haha
[19:41] <popey> no, thats me saying evening ☺
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> heavninks folkies
[19:45] <moreati> good heaving to you to sir/madam
[19:45]  * popey has switched on sync to vblank, this may have fix0r3d it
[19:46] <SuperEngineer> I have a confession to make - I've just spent half a day using LinuxMint - I beg forgiveness ;)
[19:46] <popey> oh dear
[19:46] <SuperEngineer> yeah!
[19:47] <SuperEngineer> ..it's ok - back to Lynx now
[19:47] <moreati> SuperEngineer: were you under the influence of red kryptonite?
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> moreati, no - just curious
[19:48] <SuperEngineer> but it did have ! benefit [for me]
[19:49] <SuperEngineer> I really liked the "WildMint" theme
[19:49] <SuperEngineer> well - with a bit of sudo copy - paste.... I have 10.04 runnung the WildMint theme
[19:50] <SuperEngineer> ...so - dear Mintaholics anonymous.... I am cured of your drug!
[19:51] <popey> bah, sync didnt fix it
[19:53] <Seeker`> hallo
[19:55]  * SuperEngineer thinks... time for some liquid kryptonite
[19:55] <moreati> SuperEngineer: on minthadone?
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> Is that a minty fresh version of methadone?
[19:55] <SuperEngineer> moreati,  ;D
[19:56] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, superEngineer prefers mints Extra Strong - not soft[ware] ;)
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: So.. not methadone?
[19:58] <SuperEngineer> nah - not even method- done
[19:59]  * SuperEngineer slaps wrist for slipping back to coding language
[20:01]  * popey ponders where to file a bug where brightness controls dont work
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: do they work after a suspend/resume cycle?
[20:02] <popey> dunno
[20:02] <popey> should i test after clean boot and after suspend?
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> because that's how it works on my Sony
[20:02] <popey> what, they only work after resume for you?
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> Yes, Fn+F<x> for brightness up/down only work after resuming from suspend :)
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> not after a clean boot
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> though I think it might have been fixed in Perfect
[20:03] <AlanBell> Precise
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> exactly
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I keep mixing them up :)
[20:04] <AlanBell> one of these to be precise -> http://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/2009/06/ophaned-pangolin-baby.html
[20:04] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell,  Precise[ly]
[20:05] <popey> i am on 12.04
[20:05] <AlanBell> there are no pangolins in any zoos in the UK, and only a couple anywhere in europe
[20:05] <popey> AlanBell: any in budapest?
[20:05] <popey> or vienna?
[20:06] <AlanBell> Leipzig
[20:06] <penguin42> AlanBell: I guess the brits tend to prefer furry things
[20:06] <AlanBell> penguin42: things that don't drop dead
[20:06] <AlanBell> they are very hard to feed apparently
[20:06] <penguin42> AlanBell: Well, that does help
[20:08] <SuperEngineer> just seen the BBC article posted by popey  re employer/CES.... nice one
[20:08] <SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
[20:09] <popey> yeah, quite excited about it
[20:09] <SuperEngineer> with good reason
[20:09]  * penguin42 wonders if an A15 would ever end up in as an old-school package as that
[20:14] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell,  I am trying so hard not to reply to the "brits tend to prefer furry things" as this is a family friendly channel
[20:14] <SuperEngineer> ...but awww - you should be on stage!
[20:15] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[20:15] <moreati> popey: do you know if this is the first CES Canonical has exhibited at?
[20:15] <popey> it is AIUI
[20:15] <popey> we have attended before
[20:15] <popey> but not had something to show off / had a stand
[20:16] <AlanBell> first for Canonical, last for Microsoft
[20:16] <SuperEngineer> - and the above is this years catchphrase
[20:16] <moreati> AlanBell: you predict that, or they've stated that?
[20:17] <AlanBell> moreati: they have stated that, they are doing a corporate ragequit
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> what has offended them this time?
[20:19] <AlanBell> they won't reschedule CES to line up with Microsoft's release plans
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> aww poor mS
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> MS
[20:19] <SuperEngineer> [or weren't there enough copywrights to be punished if they attend]
[20:19] <AlanBell> in case you think I am making it up: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/CES-Microsoft-Xbox-Windows-8-Steve-Ballmer,14352.html
[20:20] <SuperEngineer> Canonical - quit CES now!  they don't match up with Ubuntu release cycle!
[20:21] <popey> ☺
[20:21] <AlanBell> SuperEngineer: yeah, but CES 13.04 will rock!
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell,  ;D
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: Wow @ that DVD with lots of software
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: reminds me of the pre-internet 90s when you could buy discs full of shareware
[20:25] <popey> yeah
[20:25] <popey> i used to get catalogs sent to me, and I'd order floppies
[20:25] <popey> one of the first shareware things I bought was a free pascal compiler
[20:25] <popey> loved that on my Epson 8088 10MHz CPU machine!
[20:26] <popey> 8086
[20:26] <jutnux> Floppy Discs \o/
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> We had an 8088
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> "G2 Computer Systems"
[20:27]  * moreati goes misty eyed for the Amiga shareware wysiwyg editor Ami pro something or other
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> Hercules graphics, 10MHz, Panasonic "IBM Proprinter compatible" printer
[20:28] <popey> Hercules! You were lucky! I had MDA!
[20:28] <popey> no graphics at all!
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> I installed an Soundblaster 2.0 in that one
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: Awww
[20:28] <penguin42> this is like the yorkshire coal sketch
[20:29]  * popey types set BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> Ours had 2 20MB hard disks
[20:29] <popey> TWO!
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> popey: I5, because I7 was already in use by LPT1! :)
[20:29] <popey> mine had one 10MB disk
[20:29] <popey> ahhh of course
[20:29] <gordonjcp> popey: I used to keep signing up for Compuserve and AOL
[20:29] <moreati> IRQ, DMA and ___?
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> popey: My dad needed the second one for work
[20:29] <gordonjcp> popey: never had to buy a floppy, ever
[20:29] <jutnux> Casually killing a dragon on Skyrim
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> moreati: H5 means high DMA
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> moreati: for 16-bit transfers
[20:30] <gordonjcp> then when they switched to CDs I had plenty of bird scarers for my peas
[20:30] <popey> ☺
[20:30] <moreati> thanks
[20:30] <gordonjcp> also
[20:30] <popey> AlanBell uses kubuntu CD's to entertain his Chickens
[20:30] <gordonjcp> popey: yeah, I've seen them
[20:30] <gordonjcp> as I just mentioned in another channel, many many years ago I installed GEM for an Amstrad 1640 on a 20MHz 286
[20:30] <gordonjcp> with enough memory to run it from RAM disk
[20:31] <gordonjcp> holy hell that was quick
[20:31] <gordonjcp> I have never used such a responsive desktop since
[20:31]  * penguin42 went the Acorn route - BBC Master, then BBC Master with the 186 copro - DOS on that was odd
[20:31] <AlanBell> the archimedes was a really fast desktop
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> After that 8088 my dad got a 486 off my uncle
[20:31] <penguin42> AlanBell: Nod
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> and I got the 8088.. until it died and I got a 386-SX-25
[20:32] <popey> XS!
[20:32] <popey> er
[20:32] <popey> SX!
[20:32] <popey> you want the DX my son!
[20:32] <popey> lubbly jubbly
[20:32] <moreati> beos is the most responsive desktop I remember using
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> popey: I was 14! I didn't have money yet :)
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> not DX money anyway
[20:34] <moreati> I'd forgotten 386-SX/DX existed, thought only 486 had done that
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> moreati: 16-bit data bus, for the cheap!
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> moreati: http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/
[20:37] <moreati> MartijnVdS: erm, that makes no sense to me. what is a VX?
[20:38] <SuperEngineer> thoise would be the days when Peter Norton had the most useful & trusted software tools going
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes, lots and lots of two-letter utilities
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> moreati: It's meaningless treknobabble :)
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> moreati: and LOTS of it
[20:41] <moreati> Ah it's a Mornington Crescent variation
[20:58] <Supermanintights> hey guys, any suggestions on how to change a RAW to NTFS without losing the data?
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> raw?
[20:58] <Supermanintights> yeah, i.e. unformatted
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> if it's unformatted, there is no data to lose
[20:58] <Supermanintights> basically, I have a 2tb NTFS, with about 1.5tb data on there
[20:58] <AlanBell> how is there data?
[20:59] <Supermanintights> however it randomly changed to RAW for no reason, the data is still on there though
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I'd start digging for backups
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights:
[20:59] <AlanBell> partition table gone?
[20:59] <Supermanintights> how do i check that AlanBell?
[21:00] <Supermanintights> and MartijnVdS - i don't have enough free space anywhere to back it up/recover - so i'm hoping to fix it without having to backup/format
[21:00] <AlanBell> step back a bit, why are you saying it is RAW? where are you seeing that? how do you know the data is there?
[21:00] <Supermanintights> sec
[21:00] <Supermanintights> i'll see if i can take screeny
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: no I mean.. I hope you have a backup of that data, because if the partition table goes, you'll probably lose the entire disk
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: If not now, then soon
[21:01] <Supermanintights> i know data is there because it happened to me before on a differnet HDD - I had to use recovery software on windows, but that took 2 days, and it was just 700gb
[21:01]  * AlanBell wonders what lessons we can learn from this
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: testdisk can find/restore partition tables
[21:01] <Supermanintights> just plugging hdd in now
[21:01] <jutnux> Did you not learn to backup most important bits of your data?
[21:02] <Supermanintights> most of what is on here IS the backup of what I recovered last time
[21:02] <Supermanintights> it happened a few weeks later
[21:02] <AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> this is why I don't buy USB disks anymore :|
[21:07] <Supermanintights> AlanBell, which aspect of that guide best applies to me?
[21:07] <Supermanintights> any idea?
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery#Lost_Partition ?
[21:13] <AlanBell> Supermanintights: no idea at all really, but it looks like an interesting page to read
[21:13] <AlanBell> so disks contain partitions, there are backups of the partition table scattered over the drive.
[21:14] <AlanBell> if the whole disk appears to have no partitions then recovering one of the backup partition tables sounds like a good idea
[21:14] <AlanBell> if one partition appears to have no filesystem in it then it is a different issue
[21:14] <Supermanintights> hmm, why/how can it just go from working ntfs to RAW as it if it's totally unpartitioned
[21:14] <ali1234> what, what's not true
[21:14] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: there are no backups of the partition table
[21:15] <funkyHat> There's a backup with GPT, but not with MBR
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> just partition contents, from which approximate (or perfect, depending on the filesystem) partition boundaries can be recreatede
[21:16] <AlanBell> did I misremember something?
[21:16] <Supermanintights> hmm, i can't open terminal - the little taskbar on the left of my screen won't show
[21:17] <jutnux> Cntrl+Alt+T
[21:17] <Supermanintights> ta
[21:17] <Supermanintights> so the usb drive looks to be MBR i think
[21:20] <funkyHat> AlanBell: perhaps you're thinking of filesystem metadata within ext*?
[21:21] <AlanBell> yeah, might be
[21:21] <AlanBell> whatever it is I am thinking of there are quite a lot of them
[21:22] <funkyHat> Well even GPT only writes its headers at the beginning and end of the device, and MBR is definitely only at the start
[21:43] <Supermanintights> hey guys
[21:43] <Supermanintights> i'm running testdisk
[21:43] <Supermanintights> what partition table type would I select - intel, efi gpt, mac, none, sun, xbox
[21:43] <Supermanintights> intel right?
[21:44] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[21:44] <Supermanintights> ta
[21:44] <ubuntubhoy> how many times have you re-partitioned the drive ?
[21:44] <Supermanintights> erm
[21:44] <Supermanintights> none
[21:44] <Supermanintights> it was just used out of the box as ntfs
[21:44] <ubuntubhoy> quick analyse should do then
[21:45] <Supermanintights> i think
[21:45] <Supermanintights> i did quick search
[21:45] <Supermanintights> instantly it told me i can do deeper search or write
[21:48] <ubuntubhoy> but did it list the original setup
[21:48] <Supermanintights> don't know - i can get the gist of what it wants to do, but i don't understand it all that well
[21:49] <Supermanintights> i just click next til it works.. for better or worse
[21:49] <Supermanintights> right now i'm running the deeper search
[21:49] <ubuntubhoy> how big is the drive
[21:49] <Supermanintights> 2tb
[21:49] <Supermanintights> looks like it might take a while
[21:49] <ubuntubhoy> could take a while
[21:49] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[21:49] <Supermanintights> currently says "read error at 391/191/63 (lba=6293510)
[21:51] <penguin42> not good
[21:52] <SuperEngineer> can it not just mark that block as bad & move on?
[21:58] <AlanBell> funkyHat: I was thinking of ext superblock backups
[21:58] <Nafallo> badblocks can
[22:09] <SuperEngineer> errrmmm... open Disk Utility and see if any SMART data for the drive exists?
[22:11] <SuperEngineer> [simple idea I know, but KISS principles always as 1st option!]
[22:15] <monsterwizard> Oh wow we have a super hero
[22:15] <monsterwizard> superengineer"
[22:15] <monsterwizard> I'd read that comic
[22:15]  * SuperEngineer blushes
[22:29] <SuperEngineer> have fun folks, see you tomorrow [time for zeds] ;)
[22:37] <Supermanintights> back - it's still going, however that's the only error message it's come up with so far
[22:37] <Supermanintights> 14% done =/
[23:49] <jutnux> And it's been like 5 hours
[23:52] <hamitron> what has?
[23:54] <jutnux> Superman's HDD recovery
[23:54] <penguin42>       ^ attempted
[23:54] <hamitron> doesn't sound very "super" ;/
[23:55] <Supermanintights> well i've lost the ability to look at my task bar on the left, and see what applications are running (alt tab)
[23:56] <Supermanintights> so i daren't try find out too much
[23:56] <Supermanintights> too depressing when it's only probably on 25% or something
[23:56] <hamitron> :/
[23:56] <Supermanintights> ah, 31% - and different read errors coming through now
[23:56] <Supermanintights> 51615/53/22 - lba=829198335
[23:58] <hamitron> is the beta of 12.04 worth trying yet?
[23:59] <penguin42> hamitron: Seems to mostly work for me
[23:59] <hamitron> cool
[23:59] <penguin42> hamitron: Of course it might eat your cat
[23:59] <hamitron> my cat only complains anyway
[23:59] <hamitron> ;)