[00:00] <penguin42> :-)
[00:00] <hamitron> I'm hoping it is gonna be good
[00:00] <hamitron> never used unity for a start
[00:01] <hamitron> and just hoping it will be right for my newer machines
[00:02] <hamitron> but may try it, if it is basically working..... see how I like the "feel"
[00:02] <hamitron> no point in waiting for something, that I may not even like
[00:02] <penguin42> nod, 12.04 isn't much different to 11.10
[00:02] <penguin42> (at this point)
[00:02] <hamitron> last one I used was 10.04
[00:03] <hamitron> use*
[00:03] <hamitron> is*
[00:03] <hamitron> just not as much as I had hoped
[00:03] <hamitron> :/
[00:14] <ali1234> !info librxtx-java natty
[00:45] <Supermanintights> 45% done
[00:45] <Supermanintights> i'm not going to waste my time staying up for this shizzle
[00:46] <awilkins> Windows update?
[00:46] <penguin42> Supermanintights: consider how good the hard drive had been to you up until that point
[00:47] <Supermanintights> not remotely good for me
[00:47] <Supermanintights> had it less than 6 months before it decided to corrupt itself with 1.5tb of data on there
[00:51] <Azelphur> So, who's awesome at CSS (Maybe even Drupal omega template?) :D
[00:52] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Make?
[01:01] <Supermanintights> WD
[01:01] <Supermanintights> this is the second WD usb external I've owned, different model, which has had the EXACT same problem
[01:01] <Supermanintights> randomly happening
[01:01] <Supermanintights> the second was bought to help recover the first
[01:13] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Will smartctl work with those drives?
[01:14] <Supermanintights> not a clue, don't even know what smartctl is
[01:17] <Supermanintights> penguin42, ^^ sorry, always forget to tag people etc.
[01:17] <penguin42> Supermanintights: It reads a block of data from the hard drive and has things like number of remapped sectors and error rates etc - but it's really designed for IDE/SATA - I think it might work on some USB drives but am not sure
[01:17] <Supermanintights> should i wait for this thing to finish first?
[01:17] <Supermanintights> this deeper search of testdisk
[01:18] <penguin42> probably best to wait for it
[01:19] <penguin42> actually, udisks --dump might show the same info
[01:43]  * awilkins has been quite happy with Samsung HDs recently
[01:44] <awilkins> Seagates as well
[01:44] <awilkins> I used to use IBMs until that whole Deathstar thing
[01:46] <awilkins> Although I probably wouldn't use anything other than an SSD as a 2.5" portable external now
[01:46] <awilkins> I had 2 or 3 mechanical drives die from shock in that role
[02:29] <Semperfi30> Attempting to open a screen on a user whilst having a screen open on another user. I get this error: " Cannot open your terminal '/dev/tty1' - please check. I am running Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS .
[02:34] <BigRedS> what do you mean by 'open a screen on a user'?
[02:37] <Semperfi30> Using the screen program
[02:37] <Semperfi30> I type "screen"
[02:38] <BigRedS> where? It's the 'on a user' bit that's confusing me
[02:38] <Semperfi30> Sorry, I worded that strangely lol
[02:38] <Semperfi30> I just meant
[02:39] <Semperfi30> I'm on one user, I invoke screen. I su to another user, attempt to invoke screen when no other screens are running. And it gives me that error.
[02:40] <BigRedS> oh. It shouldn't do that. Er, I've no idea in that case, I'm afraid
[02:41] <Semperfi30> Hmm
[02:41] <Semperfi30> I was trying to figure it out in my head, I'm not an expert with linux by any means but...Maybe I need to open a new terminal or something.
[02:41] <Semperfi30> Instead of running it all from one SSH session
[02:42] <Semperfi30> err VNC in this case
[02:44] <BigRedS> nah, it should be alright
[02:44] <BigRedS> screen lets you run screen in a screen session
[02:44] <BigRedS> it's downright confusing, but it wont stop you
[02:47] <Semperfi30> Strange, I haven't really done much to the server. Maybe it's a permissions issue or something or sorta like when you try to do something with a file when it's in use by another program?
[02:49] <BigRedS> normally you get that error message when you try to launch a gui program when su'd to some user other than the one as whom you've logged in graphically as
[02:50] <Semperfi30> Hmm
[02:50] <Semperfi30> Heh
[02:51] <Semperfi30> I'm trying to run l4d2 server, and mumble, and irc server, with multiple screens in different home directories basically. This is a huge dissapointment. Is there any other program I can utilize that functions similar to screen?
[02:52] <BigRedS> not really, it's basically the standard. There's bonobo but that;s just screen with some nifty preconfiguration
[02:52] <BigRedS> you might find that asking at not 3am gets you more and useful answers though :) (or in #ubuntu)
[02:53] <Semperfi30> Haha
[02:53] <Semperfi30> True
[02:53] <Semperfi30> I am in North America so it is 10pm here give or take
[02:53] <BigRedS> Ahh
[02:54] <gordonjcp> it's nearly 3am here
[02:55] <Supermanintights> is it normal for testdisk to stay at 50% while updating the read error? for maybe 30 minutes at least
[02:55] <BigRedS> yeah, I'm guessing from your name that you're in the middle of north america :) There's a bunch of usy loco channels. Names of the form #ubuntu-us-<state>
[02:56] <BigRedS> Supermanintights: I've not used testdisk all that much, but I've never had it take more than 10mins or so in total
[02:56] <cgriff> Morning \o
[02:58] <Semperfi30> Haha BigRed
[02:58] <Semperfi30> Thanks
[02:58] <Supermanintights> BigRedS, it's been going on a deeper search since 9:45
[02:58] <Semperfi30> I doubt there would be too many frmo my state
[03:00] <Semperfi30> Lol no one was in my channel for my state rofl no surprises there
[03:01] <BigRedS> haha
[03:03] <Semperfi30> actually, I was wrong, you have to type the abbreviated version of your state, first time around was the full name
[03:03] <BigRedS> oh! yeah, sorry
[03:03] <BigRedS> should have mentioned that!
[03:09] <Semperfi30> Meh no one is responding
[03:09] <Semperfi30> Lol
[03:09] <Semperfi30> probably on idle
[04:10] <Jora> hi
[08:23] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:42] <dwatkins> hiya
[08:42] <dwatkins> I trust this day finds everyone well
[08:49] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:49] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski, did they let you out on good behaviour yet?
[08:51] <czajkowski> today
[08:53] <AlanBell> jogging home, or taking it easy for a bit?
[08:53] <czajkowski> taking it very easy
[08:53] <czajkowski> stitches in my back
[08:54] <dwatkins> ouch :-/
[08:54] <czajkowski> was a bit konger than the 1 hr planned surgery. was under fir 3
[08:55] <AlanBell> gosh :(
[08:56] <AlanBell> have a picture of some beerfest cider to help you recover http://twitpic.com/4l7o0l
[08:57] <AlanBell> tickets go on sale soonish
[08:57] <AlanBell> christel: ^^
[08:58] <AlanBell> well, tickets March 2nd, beerex is around the Precise launch
[09:27] <AlanBell> czajkowski: danfish: mattt: the groupon vouchers now work for the rugby
[09:29] <gord> someone could make a google plus to irc name translator and make billions
[09:30] <dwatkins> billions of requests?
[09:30] <gord> web views = money of course!
[09:31] <dwatkins> hits just roll straight into your bank account, clearly
[09:32] <mattt> AlanBell: thanks for the heads up!
[09:34] <dwatkins> gord: there is always bitlbee, although it seems to have difficulty with names too
[10:10] <jutnux> Morning people.
[10:36] <dwatkins> hi jutnux
[10:45] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:46] <jutnux> Morning brobostigon, how are you?
[10:46] <SuperEngineer> morninks jutnux dwatkins brobostigon et al
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:47] <brobostigon> jutnux: still pretty bad, ill and my eczema isnt so good, an infection. and you?
[10:47] <brobostigon> morning jutnux and SuperEngineer and MartijnVdS o/
[10:47] <SuperEngineer> ...& of course... MartijnVdS
[10:47]  * MartijnVdS just came back from a 14km run
[10:47] <SuperEngineer> forget the car keys?
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: haha, no, training for a 20km run in 2 months
[10:48] <SuperEngineer> good luck  to  you with that - that's more than I could do!
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I did it last year, I can do it this year easily :)
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: the year before that I was 30kg heavier and couldn't run to the train
[10:49] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, nice one
[10:51] <SuperEngineer> Interesting bit about Google+ ...
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> ?
[10:52] <SuperEngineer> i was forced to change from Super Engineer [to Billy Baker] because "Super Engineer" doesn't comply with their naming/identidy policy
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> yes, they want real names
[10:53] <SuperEngineer> .....today a friend let's me know he's following "Super Engineer" by mistake as it's not me!
[10:53] <SuperEngineer> Super Engineer is NOT me on G+ - and I've reported this swine for impersonating! ;)
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> So.. that's the name in your passport then?
[10:54] <SuperEngineer> nope - neither will it be in the swine's passport
[10:55] <SuperEngineer> one rule for all
[10:55] <ubuntubhoy> they said that to me as well, but after filling out the 'appeal' form they allowed me to continue using this nick
[10:56] <ubuntubhoy> it was more companies they were really after when it started
[10:56] <SuperEngineer> [he/she is  perhaps a nice & wonderful person... but if I got suspended for that name - they shouldn't allow impersonation - methinks]
[10:56] <ubuntubhoy> did you appeal the decision ?
[10:57] <SuperEngineer> yep - tried but failed
[10:57] <ubuntubhoy> no luck
[10:58] <SuperEngineer> I'm not bitter with this other person - unless it's deliberate] but I protest to the theory of different folks, different rules
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> 😱 -> Unicode 6 \o/
[11:00] <AlanBell> SuperEngineer: at the height of their strictness they launched the hangout stuff, and their star attraction there was some character called will.i.am
[11:01] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell, definite laugh out loud to that
[11:01] <SuperEngineer> ...and now - a good news story...
[11:03] <SuperEngineer> I changed to  a theme from Linux Mint yesterday ... it runs and works and looks better on proper  Ubuntu [Lucid] than it did on Mint :D
[11:04] <SuperEngineer> [sorry Minties - you loose out on such a lot]
[11:05] <jutnux> "You cannot fast travel from this location"
[11:06] <jutnux> So I have to get out of Ustengrav which took me like 219304820480208 years to get in
[11:06] <jutnux> #skyrim
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: Sounds like Fallout 3
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: that has the same fast travel message
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: take an arrow to the knee, it might help
[11:06] <jutnux> Already have :-(
[11:07] <jutnux> Woo
[11:08] <jutnux> got out
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[11:08] <jutnux> So glad there is fast travel
[11:08] <jutnux> Would take ages otherwise
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> but the XP-increasing random encounters in the wild!
[11:10] <jutnux> On short journeys I would walk ;)
[11:20] <jutnux> Stupid Graybeards not talking
[11:34] <Supermanintights> testdisk has finished
[11:34] <Supermanintights> it's now suggesting i either quit or write partition structure to disk
[11:34] <daubers> Morning
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> \o daubers
[11:38]  * daubers is cold
[11:39] <sagaci> hot and humid here
[11:41] <jutnux> It's just the right temperature here
[11:41] <jutnux> Hello daubers
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: if that's the same disk you "lost" last night... write the PT to disk [I'm only guessing - beware] - my theory is if you had lost all before & it thinks it do something for you, let it try - what have you lost if it's a fail [no more than before!]
[12:08] <gord> has there ever been a point where manchester has not been completely bathed in fog all winter?
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> gord: A few weeks, between the last geological age and the current one
[12:14] <gord> way to go bt open zone "You have used (hh:mm:ss).Please refresh this page to see how many minutes you have used."
[12:26] <dogmatic69> o/
[12:30] <jutnux> Howdy
[12:37] <Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, it told me to restart, and nothings happened apparently
[12:37] <Supermanintights> still coming up with errors
[12:37] <Supermanintights> in the flags, it's showing "Boot" if that makes any difference
[12:37] <Supermanintights> (yes it is same disk that I was working on last night)
[12:42] <SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: did you let it write the partition info?
[12:42] <Supermanintights> i think so
[12:42] <Supermanintights> i told it to write
[12:42] <SuperEngineer> ok
[12:42] <Supermanintights> then it said i had to restart computer to see changes
[12:42] <SuperEngineer> that makes perfect sense
[12:43] <Supermanintights> i don't see any changes
[12:44] <SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: did you try my suggestion last night of seeing what info comes up in Disk Utilty [a gparted non-clone that is sometimes extremely useful [SMART data, partittion ident etc]?
[12:45] <Supermanintights> i did, didn't understand it
[12:45] <Supermanintights> give me one sec i'll load it up again
[12:45] <penguin42> oh god this is confusing, a conversation between two Super's
[12:45] <SuperEngineer> lol
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: a superman and a superengineer
[12:46] <MartijnVdS> "If you're so super, why don't you fix it yourself?" :P
[12:46] <SuperEngineer> [& this superI don't wear tights!]
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> [& this super don't wear tights!]
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: So you claim
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: We can't verify that
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
[12:47]  * MartijnVdS assumes the worst
[12:47] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Aren't you cold?
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> nah - the sussies provide some warmth
[12:47] <Supermanintights> MartijnVdS, penguin42 :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rIWEgmmQk
[12:48] <penguin42> hmm
[12:52] <Supermanintights> penguin42, SuperEngineer MartijnVdS  - http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8221/selection008k.png - that's my disk utility
[12:52] <SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: just seen all I need to know!
[12:53] <SuperEngineer> stop flogging a dead horse.... it's cruel!
[12:53] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Click the SMARt data button
[12:53] <SuperEngineer> you've lost that disk I'm afraid!
[12:53] <Supermanintights> urgh
[12:53]  * penguin42 did say that last night
[12:54] <SuperEngineer> [only hope is pro disk recovery service [& zero guarentee & ££££'s involved] sorry mate
[12:54] <penguin42> your disk has laddered
[12:54] <Supermanintights> so basically i need to spend about £120 on a new 2tb drive to spend 4 days trying to recover it
[12:54] <Supermanintights> using file scavenger on windows
[12:54] <SuperEngineer> if it survives that long - feel free!
[12:55] <Supermanintights> the data is still accessible - i used that software and checked, but I can't afford to buy a new hdd just yet
[12:55] <Supermanintights> it's been sitting in my bag for about 4 months like this...
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> then store it
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> save pennies
[12:55] <Supermanintights> i just forgot about it until recently
[12:55] <Supermanintights> why would this happen - it just happened randomly?
[12:55] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Show us the SMART data
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> and ask for a birthday present from maiden aunt millionairess
[12:56] <Supermanintights> running the test now
[12:56] <Supermanintights> it's coming up with disk utitlty hard disk problems detected
[12:56] <penguin42> No SMART data details?
[12:56] <Supermanintights> how do i copy them?
[12:56] <SuperEngineer> [click on View SMART data]
[12:56] <penguin42> well you did the last one with a screenshot
[12:57] <Supermanintights> right
[12:57]  * Supermanintights feels moderately retarded...
[12:57] <Supermanintights> http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8350/20tbharddiskwdwdcwd20ea.png
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> move away from the kryptonite Supermanintights, only SuperEngineer can withstand it!
[12:58] <penguin42> Supermanintights: That's odd
[12:58] <Supermanintights> good odd or bad odd?
[12:58] <Supermanintights> http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8350/20tbharddiskwdwdcwd20ea.png
[12:58]  * SuperEngineer is now reminded it's time to open a bottle of "anti-Kryptonite juice" ;)
[12:58] <penguin42> Supermanintights: I've never seen that one fail
[12:59] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Ah, yes, the 2nd one makes more sense
[12:59] <Supermanintights> well this is the second time, in second harddrive, same company, where i've had the exact same problem
[12:59] <Supermanintights> for no reason other than it hated me and decided to die
[12:59] <Supermanintights> http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1964/selection011z.png
[13:00] <penguin42> Supermanintights: You have to make your own conclusion about the reliability of that vendors drives
[13:00] <Supermanintights> i've made that conclusion the second it happened
[13:00] <SuperEngineer> see that "threshold" verse the "value".... be kind... bury it with a small ceremony
[13:01] <Supermanintights> Western Digital - avoid. run. treat it like the plague.
[13:01] <penguin42> Supermanintights: 1 bad sector is unfortunate, 1365 means you're trying to read from a block of cheese
[13:01] <SuperEngineer> *definite* lol
[13:01] <Supermanintights> lol
[13:01] <Supermanintights> so
[13:01] <Supermanintights> where can i buy 2tb HDD's from without breaking the bank?
[13:02] <Supermanintights> especially after the thailand floods
[13:02] <penguin42> Supermanintights: This is USB ?
[13:02] <Supermanintights> yeah
[13:02] <Supermanintights> 2.0
[13:02] <penguin42> Externally powered or from the computer?
[13:02] <SuperEngineer> go back to bed Supermanintights, wake up refreshed, beg that millioneiress maiden aunt
[13:02] <Supermanintights> externally
[13:02] <Supermanintights> but that part i'm not fussed penguin42
[13:02] <penguin42> Supermanintights: I'm wondering if the failures are due to bad power
[13:03] <Supermanintights> they're both externally powered
[13:04] <Supermanintights> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Essential-500GB-External/dp/B002KQ1X3A/ref=dp_ob_title_ce - that's the first oen that died
[13:04] <penguin42> Scan have a Seagate barra internal 2TB for 107inc
[13:04] <Supermanintights> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Elements-External-Desktop/dp/B003IPC21Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1326027870&sr=1-1 - this is the one i'm trying to save now
[13:05] <Supermanintights> i'm running a laptop though - internal not much use for me :(
[13:06] <penguin42> Supermanintights: There are USB<->SATA docks for under £20
[13:06] <Supermanintights> if i go that route - am i less likely to have a repeat of this problem?
[13:07] <penguin42> Supermanintights: It's difficult to know what caused the problem - are you carrying this drive around all the time?
[13:07] <Supermanintights> I do NOT want to have this happen for a 3rd time, it's a PITA
[13:07] <Supermanintights> sometimes it's in my bag
[13:07] <Supermanintights> normally on my desk, plugged in
[13:07] <Supermanintights> I just restarted my computer one time (with this drive), and then I got an error message
[13:08] <Supermanintights> I checked - windows said my drive was RAW and had no data, please format
[13:08] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Well if it gets drop kicked in your bag it probably doesn't help, it could be a problem with powering
[13:08] <Supermanintights> i checked with file scavenger - my data is still on there, i just need to get another 2tb hdd to recover it to, and allow 4 days for this to happen
[13:08] <penguin42> Supermanintights: Some of your data is still on there
[13:09] <Supermanintights> all of it
[13:09] <penguin42> Supermanintights: It's wrong - there are at least 1350 sectors damaged
[13:10] <Supermanintights> yaeh - it's weird, i know what you're saying, by all rights i agree with you, but i had the same problem 12 months or so ago.  bad sectors etc. and i was able to recover everything - i just had to spend a lot of money getting a second hdd
[13:11] <penguin42> I've not seen SMART data lie - of course the bad sectors could be in an irrelevent part of your disk and not in your critical porn collection, but still
[13:11] <Supermanintights> :P
[13:11] <Supermanintights> well only thing i can do at this point is just buy another 2tb or whatever and then hope that it does recover like last time.
[13:12]  * SuperEngineer googles "critical porn" ;)
[13:12] <Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, porn where you have to be done in 45 seconds?
[13:12] <penguin42> Supermanintights: If you're doing it then I'd use an external PSU on the drive; also you might be able to get some free cloud storage to tide you over - Ubuntu One/Google/erm there must be more :-)
[13:12] <Supermanintights> or else they both die
[13:12] <Supermanintights> i got 1.5tb approx to recover
[13:13] <Supermanintights> i live by tottenham court road, i may google to see what I can get, then see if anything is going for cheap
[13:13] <penguin42> oh, if you live next to TCR
[13:13] <SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: you're pirating too many programs / OS's / porn vids!
[13:14]  * SuperEngineer checks pirate party's lists for Supermanintights 
[13:14] <Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, you're lying/have no proof/libel/defamation/sidetracking.....
[13:15] <SuperEngineer> oooh - there you are - under "vce-president"
[13:15] <Supermanintights> :(
[13:17] <AlanBell> president of vice
[13:18] <AlanBell> how are we all this fine afternoon?
[13:18] <Supermanintights> i have 1365 bad sectors
[13:18] <Supermanintights> sums up my day
[13:21] <SuperEngineer> "A London double decker crashes into a busy supermarket in south-west London" - damn those supermarkets - why put one up at a bus stop ?
[13:22] <SuperEngineer> [ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16460272 ]
[13:25] <Supermanintights> i'm on http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/listing-products.php?component=Components - do I want external or SSD?
[13:25] <Supermanintights> I know SSD stands for solid state drive, but is that what I'm looking for?
[13:28] <AlanBell> Supermanintights: if you want terrabytes then no
[13:28] <AlanBell> if you want small, fast, quiet then yes
[13:29] <AlanBell> you can have TB class SSD, but they are a tad pricey
[13:30] <jutnux> tad?
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: just a little
[13:30] <jutnux> They're like a grand, aren't they?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: Well, understatement IS the nation English sport ;)
[13:31] <directhex> about a grand yes
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: 3T = 14K€
[13:32] <jutnux> jaw = floor
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> Cheapest 1T seems to be 2.3K€
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> It'll be FAST though, probably
[13:35] <jutnux> Tempted to buy a 128gb SSD in my next build
[13:35] <jutnux> just put / and swap on there
[13:35] <jutnux> and /home on the 1tb drive i have
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> I have an Intel 120GB as /
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> and /home on a 2T disk
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> It takes longer to get through the BIOS than to boot Ubuntu :)
[13:36] <jutnux> Sweet
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> BIOS hands off to grub -> 2 seconds -> login screen
[13:36] <jutnux> How much RAM do you have?
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> 4 or 8 G, let me check
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> 8
[13:37] <jutnux> Probably going to get 8 in my next build
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for Ivy Bridge to be released
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> I'm getting a shiny top of the line I7 the moment they're available
[13:38] <jutnux> Lucky
[13:38] <jutnux> I wish I had the money for that
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> I hope I will ;)
[13:38] <jutnux> Ubuntu has served me well on this old dual core 3.8ghz
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> but my side-business (installing wifi APs for a camping) is good ;)
[13:39]  * SuperEngineer wishes he had the £££ to buy MartijnVdS's old machine!
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but it's an i3
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> I'm reminded of that every time I try to process photos (RAW -> JPEG) or video (MP4)
[13:39] <SuperEngineer> so £2 then?? .... deal!
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[13:40] <gordonjcp> I have a dual-core P4 3GHz
[13:41] <gordonjcp> it's not the most energy-efficient thing
[13:41] <gordonjcp> you know what, I'd probably be better using my HP microserver as a desktop
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> Apparently, "they" have enabled more energy saving in the Intel graphics drivers
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> on 12.04 (3.2 kernel)
[13:44] <Supermanintights> wow
[13:44] <gordonjcp> I wonder if "they" have a) fixed suspend, and b) fixed Intel i945 graphics corruption
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: the last one.. probably not
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> i945 is deadish :(
[13:44] <gordonjcp> yeah
[13:45] <gordonjcp> I'm never, ever buying a machine with an Intel graphics chipset again
[13:45] <gordonjcp> back to NVidia...
[13:45] <jutnux> Nvidia \o/
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I have the same with nvidia
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> Every upgrade breaks the drivers
[13:45] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it's annoying, and it's one of the things I hate about Linux
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> Drivers don't work properly with xrandr (so plugging in a projector is hell)
[13:46] <gordonjcp> Linux is great *if* you're using the newest and greated
[13:46] <gordonjcp> *greatest
[13:46] <gordonjcp> for hardware more than a couple of years old, forget it
[13:46] <AlanBell> I had nvidea and now I have intel, works great not going back!
[13:46] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it just doesn't work at all here
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: older intel chips had hardware bugs. Intel is getting better all the time, but they seem to have abandoned old hardware
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: just like Nvidia doesn't support old GeForces anympore
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> anymore*
[13:47] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: right, but this is in a machine about three years old
[13:47] <jutnux> I have a GEFOrce 9500gt and it works fine
[13:48] <AlanBell> I have 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 12)
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's new enough to be not very bug-riddled
[13:49] <AlanBell> I got it nearly 2 years ago
[13:49] <gordonjcp> bizarre
[13:49] <gordonjcp> someone just knocked on my door, but there's no-one there
[13:50] <jutnux> Ding dong dashed, you have been.
[13:50] <gordonjcp> jutnux: can't see how that's possible, there's nowhere to dash to or from
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: maybe a bird collided with it?
[13:50] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: and bounced a couple of times, maybe?
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: sure
[13:53] <SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16459489  ... ouch!
[13:56] <jonsaint> hi all. can anyone tell me why i keep experiencing total lock ups when im surfing the net? its only started happening. so far its done it 3 times today.
[13:56] <jutnux> Holy hell
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> jonsaint: did you change anything? was it fine before?
[13:57] <jonsaint> yeah everything was great since installing ubuntu. did an update this morning (aout 6 things i think it was) and all has ben great, then this afternoon 3 total lock ups
[13:57] <Supermanintights> do you mean like the computer just freezing momentarily for a few seconds?
[13:57] <Supermanintights> i've had it this morning as well
[13:58] <jonsaint> no. total lock up, no mouse movenet, no key use, nothing. had to use power button to power down
[13:58] <AlanBell> maybe try holding shift at power on to get to the grub menu and leave memtest86 running for a bit
[13:59] <jonsaint> il try that alan if it happens again, been on net just and it seems ok. strange how it happens one time and not the next
[14:00] <penguin42> jonsaint: You may as well do it anyway - just leave it running while you go for lunch or something
[14:00] <jutnux> A hacker according to The Sun: http://i.imgur.com/QPEPu.jpg
[14:00] <jonsaint> ok il try it
[14:00] <penguin42> jutnux: It gets cold sitting in front of your computer in the middle of the night
[14:01]  * jutnux looks at the heater
[14:02] <Supermanintights> is that a mac?
[14:02] <Supermanintights> on that photo?
[14:04] <jutnux> Yeah
[14:04] <jutnux> Looks like it anyway
[14:04] <AlanBell> with the logo removed to avoid offence to apple
[14:04] <jutnux> They know that Apple would sue them
[14:05] <AlanBell> they should start selling balaclavas in shop.ubuntu.com really
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Why? So you can hide you face while using Ubuntu in public?
[14:06] <andylockran> howdy
[14:06] <andylockran> http://www.bushells.com/r.php?id=24703&p=&t=&b=1&pf=&pt=300&a=20&favpage=&nh=0&s=2&l=e.g.%20SW4%20or%20Clapham
[14:06] <andylockran> :D
[14:06] <MartijnVdS> bus-hells?
[14:07] <AlanBell> andylockran: that your crib?
[14:07] <AlanBell> and this is where the magic happens
[14:10] <penguin42> how confusing, there is a rose flowering (just one flower) in our garden
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: cut it, give to wife, brownie points?
[14:11] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Haha, no wife, and it's a bit small and weedy
[14:11] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, whatever ;)
[15:02] <czajkowski> peeka boo
[15:04] <AlanBell> afternoon
[15:07] <czajkowski> I'm home
[15:08] <AlanBell> yay
[15:09] <czajkowski> indeed
[15:32] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: yay
[15:53] <daubers> class Item
[15:53] <daubers> {
[15:53] <daubers> public:
[15:53] <daubers> 	Item();
[15:53] <daubers> 	~Item();
[15:53] <daubers> 	int itemType;
[15:53] <daubers> 	char* itemName;
[15:53] <daubers> 	char* itemDescription;
[15:53] <daubers> };
[15:53] <daubers> class Inventory
[15:53] <daubers> {
[15:53] <DJones> Erm?
[15:53] <daubers> public:
[15:53] <daubers> 	Inventory();
[15:53] <daubers> 	~Inventory();
[15:53] <daubers> 	Inventory nextItem;
[15:53] <daubers> 	Inventory prevItem;
[15:53] <daubers> 	Item item;
[15:53] <daubers> 	void deleteItem();
[15:53] <daubers> 	void addItem(Item item);
[15:53] <daubers> };wtf?
[15:53] <daubers> stupid blasted puitty
[15:53] <daubers> apologies!
[15:54] <daubers> Just hit the mouse to get rid of the screensaver and putty has dumped the clipboard
[15:54] <mgdm> you right-clicked, then
[15:54] <daubers> :(
[15:54] <DJones> At least it wasn't something embaressing or your bank details in the clipboard
[15:54] <daubers> yes, there is definatley that
[15:56] <mgdm> I dunno, being caught C++ing... :D
[15:56] <daubers> at least it was only a short header file too
[16:06] <kvarley1> join ##php
[16:36] <jacobw> evening
[16:36] <brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw
[16:46] <jacobw> how do brobostigon ?
[16:47] <brobostigon> jacobw: pretty bad, my eczema has a bad infection, and am feeling quite ill, and you?
[16:47] <jacobw> sorry to hear that ;(
[16:47] <jacobw> i'm good thanks
[16:48] <jacobw> its sherlock again tonight
[16:48] <brobostigon> good to hear you ok. i never know how to respond really, when someone says that.
[16:48] <penguin42> brobostigon: Winter is not kind to it
[16:49] <brobostigon> penguin42: i was refferring to jacobw saying, he is sorry to hear i am not well.
[16:49] <jacobw> hey penguin42
[16:52] <brobostigon> penguin42: however, yes, my eczema is variable enough, to be good and or bad, or anything in betweem at any time, not just a predictable point in time.
[16:55] <penguin42> brobostigon: Nod, mine doesn't like extremes of temperature or temperature changes
[16:56] <brobostigon> penguin42: ok.
[17:10] <mgdm> In other news, http://i41.tinypic.com/14in6mh.jpg
[17:12] <bigcalm> .jpg aren't meant to be animated :S
[17:12] <jacobw> apache tricks
[17:12] <jacobw> also.. awesome :D
[17:13] <bigcalm> The content is cool
[17:13] <mgdm> bigcalm: content-type doesn't have to line up :-)
[17:13] <bigcalm> What isn't cool is reading up on oauth on a Sunday - borrrrrrrrrrrrred
[17:13] <mgdm> heh
[17:15] <bigcalm> A mobile dev company is going to make an iOS app for a client of ours. I need to write an API for it to interact with the client's site. Decided to make use of OAuth, brain is now dribbling out of my left ear
[17:27] <gordonjcp> anyone here remotely skilled with CSS?
[17:28] <penguin42> long time since I wrote any, and then I only did simple stuff
[17:28] <mgdm> gordonjcp: mildly
[17:29] <gordonjcp> how do you get an image and some text to lie along a centre line
[17:29] <mgdm> vertically or horizontally?
[17:29] <gordonjcp> horizontally
[17:29] <awilkins> ali1234, Had another thought about that Synergy thing we spoke about earlier... I thought it might be a good approach, instead of piping the network traffic across a Bluetooth socket, to emulate a Bluetooth HID client instead ; this has the extra advantage that you don't need to install Synergy on the client, it just needs a bluetooth radio and to support the HID client profile
[17:30] <gordonjcp> let me just pop an example together
[17:32] <awilkins> ali1234, one potential downside is the server would need to be told the dimensions of the client screen (I think absolute mouse position is going to work better, because you don't want to have to account for e.g. mouse acceleration on the client machine)
[17:33] <awilkins> Ah, and the mouse HID driver on windows restricts absolute mice to the primary monitor. Gah.
[17:34] <gordonjcp> mgdm: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/test.html
[17:35] <gordonjcp> mgdm: so apparently vertical-align: middle; applied to the image should cause all the other elements to fall into line with it
[17:35] <jutnux> Full Orcish armor on Skyrim \o/
[17:36] <mgdm> gordonjcp: tried applhying that to a container around the two thjings
[17:36] <mgdm> wow, what happened to my typing?
[17:36] <gordonjcp> mgdm: like the <h1>?
[17:37] <gordonjcp> if you do that it doesn't centre
[17:37] <awilkins> mgdm, Too much Skyrim? Distinct Nordic feel to "thjings"
[17:37] <mgdm> awilkins: I don't own anything that would run Skyrim, so no
[17:38] <mgdm> gordonjcp: Hmmm - pass
[17:58] <jutnux> http://slashdot.org/story/12/01/08/069204/leaked-memo-says-apple-provides-backdoor-to-governments
[17:59] <penguin42> not that surprising
[18:01] <jutnux> Indeed
[18:07] <shauno> gordonjcp: I'm not clear what you're looking for there; on mine, that test.html *is* centered?
[18:18] <monster2323> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00kjq6h/Shock_and_Awe_The_Story_of_Electricity_Spark/
[18:19] <jutnux> |Brian Cox?
[18:19] <monster2323> nope
[18:26] <gordonjcp> shauno: the text isn't sitting a little too high?
[18:34] <penguin42> monster2323: I do like Dr Jim
[18:35] <penguin42> monster2323: Much less manic than B.C
[18:35] <monster2323> Indeed
[18:36] <monster2323> Brain Cox does get a lot of hate from young physists
[18:37]  * penguin42 likes a bit more content in his science programs and less travel program
[18:37] <KrimZon> heh
[18:38]  * penguin42 likes that slightly insane medical Doctor guy as well
[18:38] <mgdm> Ben Goldacre?
[18:38] <penguin42> no
[18:40] <penguin42> Michael Moseley
[18:40] <mgdm> Ah, don't know him
[18:42] <penguin42> http://www.jla.co.uk/presenters/michael-mosley
[18:42] <penguin42> hmm odd site
[18:56] <shauno> gordonjcp: it's spot on here.  it just *looks* too high.  it's an optical illusion because your example text has barely any descendeurs
[18:57] <shauno> eg, the top and bottom of a lower-case 'a' are both 24px from the top & bottom of the image.  The surplus of ascendeurs just creates more whitespace below the text than you're expecting
[19:06] <gordonjcp> shauno: good point
[19:30] <m4rzh4ll> ragazzi
[19:31] <m4rzh4ll> è possibile mettere sulla scrivania di ubuntu le applicazioni che installo
[19:31] <m4rzh4ll> ?
[19:31] <AlanBell> !it
[19:31] <m4rzh4ll> sorry
[19:32] <christel> rawr
[19:32] <AlanBell> !dinosaur
[19:33] <AlanBell> hmm, must add that important factoid
[19:33] <AlanBell> how are you christel?
[19:33]  * Nafallo is tired
[19:35] <christel> i am well! cold -- just got back from bristol, and gareth kindly turned the central heating to off instead of timed when we left
[19:37] <Nafallo> isn't completely off bad for things?
[19:37] <Nafallo> I think I've heard that somewhere.
[19:37] <Nafallo> I left my place at 16C ;-)
[19:40] <christel> yeah, i always leave it on timed for a tiny bit just to maintain some temperature (to keep my plants alive if nothing else!)
[19:42] <Nafallo> I feel like dancing.
[19:42] <Nafallo> I wonder where people dance in Budapest...
[19:44] <AlanBell> I heard it was in the central square
[19:44] <AlanBell> just start dancing and people will join in
[19:44]  * AlanBell is a tiny bit evil sometimes
[19:44] <penguin42> only tiny ?
[19:45] <Nafallo> I would usually, but it's a bit further than I planned to venture after 10h workday :-P
[19:45]  * Nafallo doesn't see the evil part...
[19:49] <jutnux> Shameless self promotion: jutnux.co.uk
[19:49] <jutnux> Any comments? I wanted something simple.
[19:50] <jacobw> it is simple
[19:50] <penguin42> nice - but it doesn't let me type
[19:51] <jutnux> Of course not ;)
[19:51] <jutnux> perhaps I should integrate that
[19:52] <christel> hehe
[20:00] <monsterwizard> I'm from bristol
[20:00] <monsterwizard> how funny
[20:02]  * jutnux is confused
[20:06] <christel> i used to live in bristol before we moved to surrey -- the inlaws are down there, which is why i was there at the weekend :)
[20:07] <monsterwizard> I see
[20:07] <AlanBell> everything in the UK is "down" to christel
[20:08] <christel> haha
[20:08] <christel> correct
[20:08] <christel> :P
[20:08] <monsterwizard> Everything is up, to me
[20:08] <monsterwizard> Even devon :/
[20:08] <christel> haha
[20:40] <RaycisCharles> monsterwizard must live in the channel.
[20:40] <RaycisCharles> Under the sea...
[20:45] <jacobw> sherlock!
[20:54] <jacobw> what's better than sound juicer for ripping CDs?
[20:54] <jacobw> i.e. choice of bitrates etc
[21:18] <Supermanintights> guys - what's the difference between 2.5 USB and 3.5 USB - something to do with form factor?
[21:19] <Supermanintights> i'm looking for a 2tb external, NOT Western Digital, that won't corrupt itself on me randomly
[21:20] <DJones> Supermanintights: Normally, 2.5 inches in size and 3.5 inches in size
[21:20] <daubers> I think you're looking at the size of the disks, rather than anything to do with USB
[21:20] <Supermanintights> that's it? that's all form factor is?
[21:21] <Supermanintights> does it make a difference in terms of performance?
[21:21] <DJones> 2.5 inch is laptop drive size, 3.5 inch is desktop size
[21:21] <jutnux> It's not the size, it's how you use it ;-)
[21:21] <daubers> Desktop drives tend to be slightly cheaper/better per GB than laptop drives
[21:21] <Supermanintights> i'm running a laptop, but i'm not remotely fussed on whether it's a tad bigger - it'll be on my desk mainly
[21:21] <daubers> (note, not always true)
[21:23] <daubers> Performance wise, your bottlneck will probably be USB if you only have USB 2 ports
[21:24] <jutnux> Therefore buy a hub
[21:24] <daubers> Uhhh..... no?
[21:24] <daubers> That would make it worse
[21:24] <daubers> hubs == evil
[21:24] <Supermanintights> can you buy a usb3.0 adapter?
[21:25] <daubers> To go into what?
[21:25] <Supermanintights> erm.. my laptop... turn a usb 2.0 to 3.0?
[21:25] <Supermanintights> i have a toshiba satellite a500-17x
[21:25] <daubers> :) No, USB3 is backwords compatibly with USB2 but USB2 is slower than 3
[21:26] <DJones> if you plug a faster port into a slower port, it'll default to the lower speed
[21:26] <Supermanintights> yeah - that's why i was hoping for a way of getting usb 3.0 on my laptop
[21:26] <Supermanintights> i got 1.5tb of data to recover, and transfer
[21:26] <daubers> For average day to day stuff, you won't be too bothered by the difference in speed
[21:26] <Supermanintights> sure - but for the recovery of the above - it might be worth the investment if there's a way of doing so
[21:27] <zleap> i guess in the same way as a 100mbps network card is backwards compatable with 10 mbps, only the latter is slower, you use the same connectors
[21:28] <daubers> Not really, You'll probably shell out £50+ for a USB3 PCMCIA card  + the extra for the drive to save you maybe 8 hours
[21:28] <daubers> assuming you're reading all of that 1.5TB at the same single moment in time
[21:29] <Supermanintights> it'll take longer than 8 hours
[21:29] <Supermanintights> i recovered 700 before about 12 months ago
[21:30] <DJones> daubers: How many new(ish) laptops have pcmcia ports though, must admit I've not seen one of those on a recent laptop
[21:30] <Supermanintights> it took me 2 days to recover everything, send it to my other usb harddrive
[21:30] <daubers> If you read all of the 1.5TB at once of a USB2 disk and they're all largeish files it'll take ~17.5 hours (25MB/s) also assumes the drive it's going onto can write at that speed
[21:30] <Supermanintights> to recover 2.5tb in one go will take a VERY long time
[21:30] <Supermanintights> *1.5tb
[21:30] <daubers> Is that using data recovery software or doing straight copies?
[21:31] <Supermanintights> the recovery software isn't fast though
[21:31] <Supermanintights> data recovery - file scavenger (windows)
[21:31] <daubers> DJones: some have PCCard slots (Which are different) now
[21:31] <Supermanintights> my current harddrive has 1365 bad sectors
[21:31] <Supermanintights> i need to recover and fast
[21:31] <daubers> Supermanintights: Then it will be much much slower as you'll be IOPS limited, so USB3 won't help
[21:31] <Supermanintights> hmm
[21:32] <Supermanintights> is there any way i can speed it up - i can't guarantee i can not move my laptop for 3+ days as i'm regularly having to work in different locations
[21:32] <daubers> The slow bit will be actually getting to the data sectors on the original drive
[21:32] <daubers> So.. not really
[21:32] <Supermanintights> fair enough
[21:33] <Supermanintights> hmm, will it make a difference if i use an old netbook - could that work?
[21:33] <Supermanintights> or would that take even longer/not be or itpowerful enough f
[21:33] <daubers> No, you still have the same problem. The source drive will be slow on IOPS (i.e. that's the bottleneck really)
[21:34] <Supermanintights> ok thanks
[21:34] <Supermanintights> would you recommend doing it in bits, or all in one go?
[21:34] <daubers> I'd always do it all at once (and image the source drive first in case it all goes kaplooey)
[21:35] <Supermanintights> it's a mixture of documents, movies, programs - many large (>1gb), and lots small
[21:35] <daubers> I normally let a dedicated machine deal with recoveries
[21:35] <Supermanintights> i don't have the free space to image - i want to image it, but I can only just afford 1 more 2tb harddrive - i just gotta hope
[21:35] <Supermanintights> it's close to gone as it is - i only know of one software that's been able to do this thing before
[21:36] <daubers> then you really want to do it once and just let it get on with it
[21:36] <Supermanintights> ok, fair enough
[21:36] <daubers> also... you may want to look at some form of backup regime if this has happened before.....
[21:36] <Supermanintights> i assumed it was a freak occurence
[21:37] <daubers> Disks die, they're mechanical things
[21:37] <daubers> I get 2 or 3 a week come back at work
[21:37] <Supermanintights> how can you back up though if you're using copious amounts of data - otherwise i'm just spending hundreds of pounds at a time to get a hdd, and then to get a back up
[21:37] <daubers> (out of the couple of thousand I send out each week)
[21:38] <daubers> Get an external drive and backup to that. I have a couple I do that with (one here one at my parents)
[21:38] <Supermanintights> that's what it is - an external drive, WD 2tb Elements
[21:39] <Supermanintights> the first one that died is a 500gb WD mybook
[21:39] <Supermanintights> my internal hdd is only 500gb
[21:39] <Supermanintights> sorry - the first one was a 1tb wd mybook
[21:39] <daubers> Ideally you want 2 copies (or more) of your data
[21:39] <Supermanintights> clonezilla is good for imaging right?
[21:40] <jutnux> Supermanintights: Yes, amazing.
[21:40] <Supermanintights> how big will the images be? are they compressed? i'm happy to schedule weekly image backups - but only if I can have it compressed so I can store the backups somewhere
[21:40] <daubers> Why not just copy the data?
[21:40] <daubers> rather than image the whole drive?
[21:40] <jutnux> Just tar.gz the original folder
[21:41] <jutnux> then .rar that
[21:41] <Supermanintights> because then it'd mean buying two of the external drives every time - if i buy a 4tb to fit in more data, i'll have to buy a second one to have as a backup
[21:41] <Supermanintights> and i can't afford it
[21:42] <daubers> Best thing is to look at your data and figure out what is important and what can be recreated. Then just backup the important stuff
[21:42] <jutnux> You must have lots of crap
[21:42] <Supermanintights> i'm a compulsive downloader, and i have a weird OCD on deleting anything
[21:42] <Supermanintights> I refuse to delete emails
[21:42] <jutnux> Ah
[21:42] <Supermanintights> if something is completely junk/useless, i can do it
[21:43] <Supermanintights> if it has a tiny bit of value/potential value
[21:43] <Supermanintights> it stays
[22:00] <Laney> H. O. U. N. D.
[22:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Bracknell  8th January 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=44
[22:36] <bigcalm> Aye, Sherlock was fun
[22:48] <jacobw> mycroft is crazy
[22:49] <bigcalm> No kidding
[22:49] <bigcalm> But how did he end up in that room in the 1st place?
[22:51] <jacobw> that wasn't mycroft
[22:51] <jacobw> that was moriaty
[22:51] <jacobw> but mycroft released him
[22:51] <jacobw> (IIRC)
[22:51] <bigcalm> I meant moriaty
[22:51] <bigcalm> But my question still stands
[22:52] <jacobw> yes, still
[22:52] <jacobw> i can't think how he got there
[22:57] <popey> evening all
[22:57] <mgdm> Hi popey
[22:58] <Azelphur> evening
[23:01] <bigcalm> mgdm: how do you call a function by string?
[23:02]  * popey has had too much cheap hungarian beer
[23:02] <popey> and some ribs
[23:02] <mgdm> bigcalm: call_user_func or call_user_func_array
[23:02] <bigcalm> Ta
[23:02] <mgdm> bigcalm: if it's a method, $obj->$foo() works
[23:02]  * AlanBell tickles popey's ribs
[23:02] <bigcalm> I see!
[23:05] <Azelphur> CSS is making me want to stab things :(
[23:05] <bigcalm> It has that side effect
[23:05]  * mattt dislikes CSS
[23:05] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:05]  * mattt dislikes anything front-end
[23:05]  * bigcalm sips his kings ginger
[23:05] <Azelphur> I dislike frontend too :(
[23:07] <popey> heh
[23:10] <popey> time to watch sherlock via a proxy on my vps
[23:13] <mattt> popey: in the US?
[23:14] <popey> mattt: budapest
[23:15] <mattt> what the heck you doing there
[23:15] <bigcalm> popey: tis a good one
[23:16] <bigcalm> mattt: drinking too much cheap hungarian beer and ribs
[23:17] <popey> mattt: canonical rally
[23:20] <bigcalm> Only the basic best bits of a rally
[23:22] <RaycisCharles> Is it anything like an ANC rally?
[23:23] <mattt> fun ... i still want to make it to a UDS one year
[23:24] <mattt> RaycisCharles: anc rally?
[23:24] <AlanBell> like the lombard RAC rally
[23:25] <mattt> oh, so not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANC :P
[23:26] <popey> AlanBell: one of my fave songs ever
[23:26] <bigcalm> Hah
[23:26] <RaycisCharles> No, the African National Congress.
[23:26] <AlanBell> popey: you will never win the rally in that volvo
[23:27] <RaycisCharles> Oh. Is this a motorsport rally?
[23:27] <RaycisCharles> I thought popey was on a fundraising rally for Canonical...
[23:27] <mgdm> Volvo used to make OK BTCC cars
[23:28] <AlanBell> yeah, I saw a BTCC race when they first introduced them and everyone was laughing at them for fielding an estate car
[23:28] <mgdm> It did quite well, IIRC
[23:28] <mgdm> then they were banned for some reason
[23:29] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FylD6BZrM
[23:29] <RaycisCharles> Probably for fielding an estate in a rally.
[23:29] <popey> best rally music ever
[23:29] <bigcalm> Have you seen the power sliding station waggon?
[23:29] <popey> Propoganda - Duel
[23:29] <mgdm> RaycisCharles: BTCC != rally
[23:29] <RaycisCharles> Please do explain.
[23:30] <RaycisCharles> British Touring Car Championship?
[23:30] <mgdm> BTCC is touring cars, a tarmac track, much like F1 or whatever
[23:30] <mgdm> not rallying
[23:30] <RaycisCharles> Ok.
[23:30] <RaycisCharles> Is it like F1 i.e. not a real sport of skill?
[23:31] <mgdm> Hah
[23:31] <RaycisCharles> F1 is like horse racing.
[23:31] <mgdm> If you hold that opinion I'm just going to stop talking ;-)
[23:31] <ali1234> cars are boring :(
[23:31] <RaycisCharles> Give the credit to the horse/car.
[23:31] <RaycisCharles> F1 isn't even considered a sport. It's more like boxing on wheels.
[23:32] <RaycisCharles> I guess that makes Schumacher the Tyson - crashing into people, trying to kill them etc.
[23:32] <jacobw> boxing on wheels?
[23:32] <mgdm> jacobw: I don't get it either
[23:33] <RaycisCharles> As in, not really competitive in a sporting sense.
[23:33] <RaycisCharles> There's no 1v1 tournament, no ranked matches, every car is different etc.
[23:34] <BigRedS> so it's like most racing, then?
[23:34] <RaycisCharles> - I watch a lot of F1 btw -
[23:34] <RaycisCharles> BigRedS, well, I consider using stock cars to be more of a sport.
[23:35] <RaycisCharles> All that matters is the driver's skill, not if your team invested $300m in your latest car (as in F1).
[23:35] <hamitron> costs a lot of professional stock car too ;/
[23:35] <hamitron> s/of/for
[23:36] <mgdm> most of the cars in touring car racing, NASCAR, etc bear very little resemblence to the 'base' model internally
[23:36] <RaycisCharles> NASCAR is something else entirely.
[23:36] <BigRedS> RaycisCharles: That doesn't make it more of a sport, it makes it more of an individual sport and less of a team one
[23:36] <mgdm> in NASCAR it's basically a frame made of scaff bars welded together with an egnine in, and a fibreglass shell that superficially resembles the car it's meant to be
[23:36] <RaycisCharles> BigRedS, sports science and engineering doesn't make it any more or less of a team sport.
[23:37] <RaycisCharles> Eg. there's a hell of a lot of sports science in tennis, but it's considered an obvious team sport.
[23:37] <BigRedS> You just said it did - stock cars is more of a sport because all that matters is the driver's skill
[23:38] <RaycisCharles> BigRedS, I said I considered it to be more of a sport, not a team sport.
[23:38] <RaycisCharles> Right now it's like horse racing.
[23:38] <RaycisCharles> The horse matters too much for there to be any sporting merit in the winner; same goes for F1 and its driver/car relationship.
[23:39] <RaycisCharles> Anyway, it's just an opinion.
[23:39] <RaycisCharles> Lots of people swear by horse racing.
[23:39] <hamitron> football (soccer) isn't really a sport either though, if you start looking
[23:39] <hamitron> like that anyway
[23:39] <hamitron> but I consider them all sports
[23:39] <hamitron> ;)
[23:39] <RaycisCharles> I don't remember footballers using segways to move around the pitch.
[23:40] <RaycisCharles> When they do, it ceases to be a sport and becomes just entertainment.
[23:40] <hamitron> footballers at big clubs who can afford it, don't have to play all the matches (too hard for them)
[23:41] <RaycisCharles> That isn't how it is at all. All the best footballers want to play every game.
[23:41] <hamitron> they complain about too many matches
[23:41] <RaycisCharles> No, the managers complain about too many international fixtures.
[23:41] <RaycisCharles> There is a difference.
[23:42] <RaycisCharles> A top player plays 50-60 games a season if he doesn't have injuries.
[23:42] <hamitron> then why do they field a "2nd Squad" for FA matches ;/
[23:42] <RaycisCharles> Because the manager wants to save the best players for more important matches.
[23:42] <RaycisCharles> And he wants to give experience to younger/fringe players.
[23:42] <hamitron> so money gives them an advantage
[23:42] <RaycisCharles> No, you can have 40 shit players in your squad.
[23:42] <RaycisCharles> Or 40 excellent ones.
[23:43] <hamitron> and in F1 you can have a car with 4 wheels and 1 driver
[23:43] <RaycisCharles> hamitron, none of those 40 players are machines.
[23:43] <BigRedS> yeah, and more money means more excellent ones, surely?
[23:43] <RaycisCharles> Come back when Man Utd name Wall-E on their subs bench.
[23:43] <mgdm> FWIW, I like F1, but I find football deathly dull. Unfortunately I work somewhere i can't avoid hearing about it :-)
[23:43] <BigRedS> so the point isn't the competetiveness, simply the presence of non-humans?
[23:44] <RaycisCharles> BigRedS, riding a machine isn't a sport when all the machines are different.
[23:44] <RaycisCharles> If all the machines were the same, then yes, it would be a sport.
[23:45] <BigRedS> I don't get it
[23:45] <hamitron> no machines are the same though
[23:45] <hamitron> :/
[23:45] <BigRedS> none of the riders are the same, either
[23:45] <hamitron> exactly
[23:45] <RaycisCharles> You're supposed to measure how good the riders are.
[23:45] <BigRedS> surely choice of machine is no less sporting than choice of line, or choice of where to kick the ball
[23:45] <RaycisCharles> Unless F1 is supposed to be about who can build the best car.
[23:45] <hamitron> RaycisCharles, it is
[23:45] <hamitron> ;/
[23:45] <RaycisCharles> Maybe it is?
[23:45] <BigRedS> RaycisCharles: well, there's the manufacturer's championship in F1
[23:45] <RaycisCharles> Well, at its core, F1 is about selling cigarettes to Africans.
[23:46] <RaycisCharles> BigRedS, but nobody except the constructors care about it.
[23:46] <BigRedS> Surely F1 is teams competing with each other to fields the best combination of car and driver
[23:46] <BigRedS> RaycisCharles: well, no but that goes for the driver's standings, too :)
[23:46] <RaycisCharles> Then it's more like a competition than a sport.
[23:46] <hamitron> and teams search for the best driver..... drivers search for the best teams
[23:46] <RaycisCharles> You can enter a poker tournament - is that a sport?
[23:46] <BigRedS> I think I'm just going to accept that I don't understand your definition of "sport"
[23:46] <hamitron> :)
[23:47] <RaycisCharles> It's ok - I'm from the country which invented pretty much every sport.
[23:47] <RaycisCharles> We're somewhat opinionated.
[23:47] <ali1234> DARTS
[23:47] <BigRedS> doesn't every country believe it invented all the sports?
[23:47] <ali1234> that's a real sport
[23:47] <mattt> DARTS
[23:47] <RaycisCharles> BigRedS: no
[23:47] <RaycisCharles> The UK invented pretty much every major sport played today.
[23:48] <RaycisCharles> US invented basketball and netball IIRC, but that's it.
[23:48] <hamitron> ali1234, ofc
[23:48] <hamitron> :)
[23:48] <RaycisCharles> Darts is big in Holland, for some reason.
[23:48] <mattt> RaycisCharles: i thought you were going to say you're australian
[23:48] <mattt> was wondering what sports they invented ;(  minus that weird rugby-like sport they play
[23:49] <RaycisCharles> Aussie rules football?
[23:49] <RaycisCharles> Canadians also have their own version.
[23:49] <RaycisCharles> Not sure why.
[23:49] <hamitron> so do america ;)
[23:50] <mattt> yeah, the canadian football league is american football, but slightly different
[23:52] <RaycisCharles> Just like Canadians are slightly different from Americans.
[23:53] <RaycisCharles> American rugby would be the most boring sport in the world if not for the frequent violent collisions.
[23:53] <RaycisCharles> The honour of most boring goes to baseball.
[23:54] <hamitron> never played it
[23:54] <RaycisCharles> Most exciting to actually see in person is basketball IMO. Has to be a good team though (i.e. a team full of 8ft tall black Americans).
[23:54] <mattt> can't stand basketball, it's like watching someone playing pinball
[23:54] <hamitron> I can't stand it to watch
[23:54] <RaycisCharles> But but what about the 8ft tall black guys?
[23:54] <hamitron> fun to play
[23:54] <RaycisCharles> I used to play, back in the day.
[23:54]  * mattt is afk
[23:55] <cgriff> Most games are like that terrible to watch but alright to play ^
[23:55] <hamitron> cgriff, dunno, kinda like watching some "tough" sports with a beer ;)