[02:50] [go8765(i)] can I change java version from one application, but not for all system? [02:58] go8765, you can just use the full path of the version of java you want to use when you launch the app [03:07] shoenig, thanks for answer [03:14] shoenig: it dont work :( [03:14] Could not find the main class: /usr/bin/jdownloader. Program will exit. [03:16] what is jdownloader? doesn't seem to be a part of any of xubuntu's packages [03:16] you.right.sorry [03:20] what exactly are you trying to do? [03:21] shoenig: I have 7 java but jdownloader work bad with it. and i want to use 6 version of java for jdownloader [03:26] well.. the easy solution would be to make java6 the default, or even remove java7 altogether [03:27] but vuze work better with 7 java (i think) [03:54] 'allo. just saw this while checking out the newest xubuntu. not needing help, just clicked the join the irc link in the install script. really good from what I see so far. [03:56] feel like an old-timer, I remember having to fetch and compile all the files for x11 and xfce myself (old time freebsd user, migrated to windows) [03:57] jaqiefox, yea that's really not necessary anymore [03:57] no kiddin :) [04:00] The real test (for me) will be to see how it does with my old P2 300 with 768MB ram and various old AGP vidcards. I find support for older hardware severely lacking in most linucies nowadays in my random trials of distros. [04:01] P2 300 [04:01] :( [04:01] i'm suprised it runs at all [04:01] BSD still supports anything pentium pro or newer, though I am waaaaaaaay past wanting to do that. [04:02] oh it runs great! I actually have an older system, a pentium MMX 200MHz, my DOS gaming machine. [04:02] though the one Im on now is my main gaming box, phenom II x4 thuban core unlocked to x6 with 16GB DDR3 and hd6850 1gb [04:02] haha i was about to ask.. [04:02] xD [04:02] hardwares come a long way in the past 15 years [04:03] my favorite box is my dual tualatin p3 1.4GHz with 4GB [04:03] v5 5500 agp [04:03] That was a highpoint in computers, to me anyways. [04:03] i started using computers right when P3's came out [04:04] I started before IBM PC existed - TRS-80 model III [04:04] a whole 48K ram! [04:04] * jaqiefox is showing her age now >.> [04:05] 48K of ram :( [04:05] Yep! [04:08] hm this webchat applet is nice. most of them are awful [04:08] which one are you suing? [04:08] the one that was linked to in the xubuntu 11 liveCD [04:09] qwebirc it seems [04:09] the install script "ads" actually linked to this webchat and channel. [04:11] huh, i've never heard of qwebirc... i thought xubuntu included xchat by default [04:11] it prolly does [04:11] but as I said the install script has an ad that links right here [04:11] ah [04:12] so im like sure, why not, lets check it out. sure enough it actually works. xubuntu has come a long way. [04:12] it's my personal favorite [04:15] according to jaqiefox's hostmask, it seems to be the standard freenode webchat. webchat.freenode.net [04:16] i.e., it's a web gateway to irc, via a web browser [04:16] rather than a standalone client [04:19] * nashi is jaqiefox [04:19] stupid focus stealing windows got me. windows should never steal focus especially when youre typing! [04:19] anyway - ex-chat is good, I use the silverex.org chat2 aka ychat, freeware windows port of it [04:20] er - xchat2 [04:20] haha, i remember googling "xchat alternate" for windows since it wasn't free [04:20] and getting ychat [04:20] which is exactly the same thing [04:21] im on it right now. this is jatom - jetway flexATX atom 330 with 2GB ram and win7 64 bit. its a custom minibox designed to be my file server. [04:22] i thought the atom 330 was 32bit? [04:22] I wasnt on freenode so had to join it [04:22] Nope! [04:22] thats the 230 [04:22] ahh [04:22] yeah odd isnt it? [04:23] this was the first 64 bit capable atom, and the first dual channel one. [04:23] heh, i own the 230, 330 and 550 [04:23] i thought only the 550 was 64 bit [04:23] I want an e350 to put inside a genesis case [04:23] the more ya know... [04:23] for MAME and HTPC [04:23] yep! [04:24] I bought this mobo specifically for the dual channel ram and 64 bit [04:24] this particular one also supports ~4GB ram [04:24] 32 bit memory controller in hardware, so only actually get ~3.2GB [04:24] nice [04:24] yah. for a file server even when running win7 64 bit 2gb is plenty though [04:25] im redoing the rest of my systems, just got the thuban and am3+ mobo so all my older systems get the hand me downs [04:25] my 550 is running headless debian with 2gb of ram, it's a bit overkill [04:26] never uses more than 270 mb [04:26] not when you consider the price of ram and the fact that *nix uses ram for cache [04:26] true [04:29] imma replace my wrt54g router with a p3 733 soon running prolly pfsense. gonna drop 1gb ram into it for just that reason [04:29] nashi: what's this about windows? you know what channel this is? :) [04:29] ah don't kill the wrt54g.. those things are legends [04:29] and I just talked about pfsense and a router running freebsd :) [04:29] i've got one going over 10 years now [04:30] ive had 6, and I contributed to the wikipedia page on them for a whie [04:30] while [04:30] * nanotube dropped a dual-nic freebsd box as router in favor of a wireless router box, due to less maintenance being involved, some time ago :) [04:30] right now im running a v2.1 and a v5 in WDS mode for my net connection [04:30] heh, i've got a v2.1 running tomato [04:30] * nanotube now running a wrt54gl [04:30] they are just a tad bit too slow to handle our comcast 20/5 plan we upgraded to [04:31] so imma use them for the WDS and use a 4 port intel 10/100 pci card with the p3/733 for routing and various other things [04:31] our plan is 16/6 or some such, works fine [04:31] yes it caps out at right over 16Mbps [04:31] well, if you have the time to tinker, it certainly is fun :) [04:31] ah haha ic [04:31] lucky me [04:31] :) [04:31] ^.^ [04:32] "lucky" :) [04:32] so basically im going to use a p3/733 running pfsense as the router to offload that off the poor wrt54g [04:33] yea [04:34] Man, I'm going to be called the offtopic person... Would this fit better in #xubuntu-offtopic? ;) [04:34] And WRT54g's are awesome [04:34] Im firmly of the opinion that offtopic in channels is fine so long as it doesnt break the rules for obscenity or religion or such and theres no other activity [04:35] Unit193, i've always felt that if the channel isn't in use offtopic is okay [04:35] bingo [04:36] I got this v5 for $20, someone bricked it. gawd it was a pita to get going and then set up for wds client mode - took like 8 hours all told [04:37] i've got a bricked 2.0 [04:37] how'd you get it going again? [04:37] so at 50bucks an hour reasonable consulting rate... you paid 420bucks for this router, then, nashi ? :) [04:37] that sucks. theres a tftp option for some versions I used [04:37] nanotube: not really, im a disabled x computer tech, time is the only resource I have in abundance anymore [04:38] unless you wanna call pain a resource ;) [04:38] well with all those skills, you should definitely be able to charge a good penny for your work :) [04:38] if I could do it that often, yes [04:38] more on topic: anyone have any problems with orage failing to pop up event reminders? [04:39] ive never used orage, sorry [04:39] orage is the clock/calendar yea? [04:39] yes [04:39] i didn't realize it even supported event reminders [04:39] yep [04:40] well, ostensibly it does :) [04:40] and i even got some at some point :) [04:40] its sposed to ;) [04:42] <_Pete_> morning [04:42] allo [04:42] <_Pete_> everyday I wake up noticing there's lots of msgs [04:43] <_Pete_> and then they all stop [04:43] <_Pete_> stupid timezones [04:43] awh [04:45] maybe all of everybody's problems were solved [04:45] except for this orage thing [04:45] haha [04:46] and another thing... /usr/bin/setxkbmap -option "ctrl:nocaps" is supposed to change capslock to ctl [04:46] and it does... but some time later, it reverts back to caps [04:46] any suggestions? [04:46] ooh [04:46] i had the same problem [04:46] is there some funky background job that keeps resetting things? [04:46] coming back from suspend resets it [04:46] did you solve it??? :) [04:47] what about without suspend? [04:47] i set it a couple hours ago [04:47] and didn't suspend [04:47] nah only after suspend [04:47] but capslock is capslock again [04:47] i forgot what i did [04:47] bah [04:47] heh [04:47] well, even so, it is comforting to know i'm not alone :) [04:48] bruteforce solution: set a crontab to run setkbmap every second :D [04:48] heh [04:48] iirc there's a way to run commands going in and out of suspend [04:48] ouch thats a sledgehammer solution [04:49] i read it on some blog post and it actually worked [04:49] yea there are some scripts in /etc [04:49] but for me, this resets even without suspend [04:49] but right now [04:49] my terminal is broke [04:49] nashi: lol yea [04:49] in a way i've never seen before [04:50] http://pastebin.com/Zc7Vu6Zz [04:50] whoops [04:50] shoenig: fix your path? [04:51] <_Pete_> hmm what is your probelm exactly? [04:51] <_Pete_> (too lazy to read all scrollback) [04:51] _Pete_: asking me? [04:51] <_Pete_> yeah [04:51] and another thing... /usr/bin/setxkbmap -option "ctrl:nocaps" is supposed to change capslock to ctl [04:51] and it does... but some time later, it reverts back to caps [04:51] that is my problem [04:52] shoenig: has suggested it happens after suspend/resume, but for me it happens even without [04:52] <_Pete_> right [04:53] <_Pete_> you guys have wierd problems [04:53] lol [04:53] <_Pete_> I dont have any [04:53] <_Pete_> ..in years [04:53] <_Pete_> boring :) [04:53] if they weren't weird, i'd not need to ask here, because google helps. [04:53] nanotube, the other solution was to buy a keyboard with the ctrl key in the right place [04:53] _Pete_: well, i didn't use to have any weird problems... but then unity happened and i switched to xubuntu :) [04:53] shoenig: haha that's almost as bad as the 1s crontab [04:54] nanotube, I hear u [04:54] <_Pete_> maybe it's coz I so old and have been using unix/linux since I dont remember anymore [04:55] nanotube, switched for the same reason [04:55] hehe, /me starts to suspect that this chan had 40 users before unity [04:56] i tried lubuntu for a while too, it's not bad, but xubuntu feels a little better to me [04:56] <_Pete_> for me it started earlier [04:56] <_Pete_> I used kde 3 [04:56] i used kde1 on freebsd 2.2.8. [04:56] <_Pete_> when they did that (stupid) force move to kde 4 [04:56] :P [04:56] <_Pete_> then needed to seek alternatives [04:56] kde4 too heavy? [04:56] is this the unity that I know, the VM solution that allows you to use apps for other oses in a vm but transparently in their native windows instead of a virtual desktop space? [04:56] <_Pete_> freedom7: no [04:57] <_Pete_> it just doesnt work as the old [04:57] nashi: no, it is the unity UI on ubuntu natty and oneiric [04:57] ahhh the new one Im seeing with trying 11.x [04:57] it's the gnome3-shell wanna be [04:57] I sure as hell hope it doesnt take the gnome approach of when in doubt disable? [04:57] <_Pete_> maybe it's really time to grow beard and start to like debian [04:58] <_Pete_> at least there some sense in these "transitions" [04:58] nashi: it already did. there's very little configurability in unity [04:58] lo grow a beard......... i was on debian before ubuntu [04:58] _Pete_: I started messing with *nix around the redhat 5.4 days and then went to FreeBSD 5.11 [04:58] around 8 I went to windows again and never really looked back [04:59] * freedom7 daydreams of debian [04:59] no, incorrect. I look back quite a bit, hence my trial of xubuntu again today and liking first impressions [04:59] <_Pete_> nashi: cool, I think it was back in 1988 or so, I got my first dialup modem on Amiga, then connected to internet aka unix [04:59] I sure hope I can get the "rocks" screensaver to work. its my favorite part of a *nix desktop, as weird as that is [05:00] <_Pete_> nashi: that was the first time I needed to learn how to use it [05:00] ah [05:00] nashi: rocks screensaver? [05:00] yep [05:01] rocks? [05:01] back in the days of noseguy et al [05:01] seems not installed by default on xubuntu. anyone know what package it's in? [05:01] it used to be in xscreensavers [05:02] i think there's additional screensavers in some package for xscreensaver [05:02] xubuntu only ships with a few [05:03] maybe it's in xubuntu-goodies [05:03] or xfce4-goodies [05:03] <_Pete_> I am happy that xfce is about first envinronment where screensavers actually work [05:03] if you find noseguy youll prolly find rocks [05:03] <_Pete_> I have setup it to shutdown the monitor to sleep [05:03] _Pete_: that's another thing. so did i. it did it a few times... then stopped [05:04] I am really oldschool I *GASP* hit the power button on the monitor when I want it off! [05:04] could it be a bunch of gnome stuff interfering? since i just installed xubuntu-desktop on top of stock ubuntu? [05:04] <_Pete_> nanotube: same behaviour was here before XFCE, but for now it have been working flawlessly [05:14] nashi is the monitor a C.R.T. ? [05:14] I cant use CRTs. I puke from the flicker. so, no. [05:15] hmmmmm i still hit the power on my LCD [05:16] ok I now officially love the xubuntu livecd OS and am going to use it as my toolbox os from henceforth :) [05:16] toolbox :( [05:16] I didnt say ONLY as, did I? [05:16] technically no [05:17] gotta be careful with me, I say only what I mean - there's a very good reason there's not an only in that sentence. [05:20] _Pete_: before xfce? what did you use before xfce? [05:20] <_Pete_> kde3 [05:20] ah [05:20] yea you said :) [05:21] well, none of these issues are showstoppers for me... just minor annoyances [05:21] <_Pete_> there's this trinity project, which tries to wake it up [05:21] <_Pete_> but so far at least for me too many bugs [05:22] <_Pete_> meanwhile I have been really liking this xfce, maybe dont need kde3 anymore [05:24] ooh, in answer to earlier question - xscreensaver-data-extra contains rocks screensaver, among others [05:24] _Pete_: heh i'm thinking the same about gnome and xfce :) [05:24] ty [05:31] omg, new joke: what's a hentai-lover's favorite xscreensaver? :) [05:31] no takers? ;) [05:32] i've no idea [05:32] skytentacles! :) [05:33] rocks, skytentacles [05:33] I wonder if the rocks screensaver being so old can be compiled to run in windows for a screensaver [05:33] we have some strange screensavers [05:33] nashi: btw, saw the rocks saver - nice, i remember it [05:33] yah I love it and missi t [06:21] thinking about doing re-install with debian and LXDE [06:53] alternate power manager for xfce ubuntu? [06:53] I'm unaware of one sorry [06:54] current one is not controlling power at all, aka its powerless . anytime i change a setting it just doesnt do anything [06:54] *useless [06:55] sounmds like its not set up right, though no idea how to fix it [06:55] just thought of chencking etc files on the power manager brb [07:02] lol so much for power manager even saving settings, etc directory is empty except for default scripts [07:03] program flay [07:03] *flaw [07:03] <_Pete_> I suspect it will save settings to $HOME/somewhere, not /etc [07:04] ill check [07:04] <_Pete_> saving to /etc is impossible [07:04] <_Pete_> unless the process have root access [07:04] not for a system process [07:05] and to control power it has to be root [07:05] example: shutdown now [07:05] untrue [07:05] hast to be sudoed [07:05] try it without root [07:05] I used to all the time [07:05] in terminal? [07:06] yep. [07:06] always returns for me : must be root [07:06] because that's who has privaleges by default in your flavor of *nix [07:07] doesnt mean everyone has it set up that waqy, nor does it mean it has to be root to happen [07:07] ubuntu ubuntustudio xubuntu from 9.04 to 11.04 [07:07] all the same [07:07] * nashi rolls her eyes [07:09] <_Pete_> nashi: maybe it is good solution in 1 person *nix, wouldnt do that on my machine tough which have several users :) [07:09] Hello, when I try to install libgtk2.0-dev I get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/796802/ [07:09] exactly why it's *DEFAULT* behaviour not to configure it that way. that's one hell of a long way from it HAVING to be root to do it. [07:13] <_Pete_> robro003: what kind of system you use? that package installs ok here in xubuntu 11.10 [07:14] reinstall time cyall later [07:14] _Pete_, xubuntu 11.04 [07:20] <_Pete_> robro003: have you done some custom apt source modificartions? [07:20] <_Pete_> in my 11.04 it installs ok [07:21] _Pete_, I have installed some ppa's if that's what you mean. [07:22] <_Pete_> I think only way your pastebin can happen [07:22] <_Pete_> is you have somehow broken apt sources [07:23] <_Pete_> apt-get update gos without erros? [07:24] if you didn't run apt-get update before that, run it and try again [07:24] sudo apt-get update runs without any errors [07:33] <_Pete_> robro003: wierd, but what I would investigate first is that your sources.list is really correct [07:36] ok [07:37] run sudo dpkg --configure -a [07:42] Just wanted to say, I'm running xubuntu for the first time today, its effing awesome, that is all [07:42] it definitely has its perks [07:43] I love it so much more than mint or the others [07:43] Sysi, that didn't help, _Pete_, I checked my sources.list and it looks fine [08:07] Hey guys, how do I setup the firewall in xubuntu 11.10? [08:10] <_Pete_> robro003: dont have anything else in mind for that, sorry [08:10] <_Pete_> Pirate: why do you want to set it up in first place? [08:11] _Pete_, alright, thanks for trying :) [08:12] why have a bunch of nets to catch criminals inside your house if you can lock the door tight enough they cant get in in the first place? [08:13] Do I not need one, _Pete_ ? [08:13] need no good idea always [08:13] <_Pete_> Pirate: firewall is used to block something [08:14] how do criminals get in if you don't have open windows, airvents need to be open anyway [08:14] <_Pete_> Pirate: unless you have something to block, there's no need for that [08:14] What if I do a lot of p2p stuff? [08:14] <_Pete_> Pirate: so question is, do you have? [08:14] * nashi snrks [08:14] have you EVER looked at the traffic in the wild on the net? [08:15] not exactly, I guess [08:15] EVERYone should have at least a nat router as a firewall, and more if they go to public wifi spots and such [08:15] <_Pete_> nashi: I dont have, and hate being force NATted [08:15] Well yeah of course my wireless has a firewall but I didn't think that was enough [08:16] who is force NATing you? not me. [08:16] nashi: please explain how you're gonna do harm to my ubuntu with public IP and no firewall [08:16] <_Pete_> nashi: my operator was before [08:16] Sysi: I never said I would do it, don't try putting that crap on me. [08:17] _Pete_: operator? are you a truck or something? I really dont get your terminology here :( [08:17] nashi: I'm just trying to say it's not any easier than with firewall [08:17] operator = ISP [08:17] <_Pete_> nashi: ISP [08:17] So confused, so I don't need to setup a firewall on xubuntu? [08:17] even with heavy p2p stuff? [08:17] <_Pete_> Pirate: no [08:17] ew. ISPs that use NAT should be forced to give net at half price [08:17] if you needed it would be there by default [08:17] LOL [08:17] Alright, thanks pete [08:17] if you really want, you can use gufw [08:18] nashi: *ubuntu is not arch/gentoo [08:18] Sysi: so youre saying if you need something it will be supplied to you? That's good. [08:18] <_Pete_> nashi: yeah it was big surprise, when I got this elisa viihde cable ... [08:18] <_Pete_> nashi: there was no option to switch NAT off [08:18] <_Pete_> essentially was no reach my computer outside [08:18] <_Pete_> which was totally suxx [08:18] _Pete_: and no option to use your own cablemodem? [08:19] <_Pete_> no [08:19] Sysi: I never said it was arch or gentoo, where the hell is everyone getting these crazy ideas for things I never said? [08:19] <_Pete_> luckilly they managed to fix that pretty quick as lots of people was complaining [08:19] <_Pete_> after that I am happy with this 100/5 connection [08:20] yeah. it may be modus operandum for some foreign countries but I would NOT like to be behind an ISP nat [08:20] It's like you guys are talking in a different language.. [08:20] nashi: you seemed to assume ubuntu releases are incomplete, missing security stuff by default [08:20] Pirate: it's called computer geek, a certain accent of geek language. [08:20] <_Pete_> Pirate: but we havent get to code talk yet [08:20] <_Pete_> :D [08:20] Yeah I thought I knew computers until I found linux.. Wow [08:21] or just bad english, the most common language [08:21] Sysi: You seem to be misreading what I am saying drastically. and yes, if you mean with everything you could ever read, every *nix release is woefully incomplete. [08:21] <_Pete_> Pirate: so you are finally figuring out how they really work? [08:21] <_Pete_> and maybe that the IE icon is not internet? [08:21] ever need, not read [08:21] Slowly, linux is so complex [08:21] haha no no, I wasn't that bad [08:22] Pirate: what we are talking about right now isnt os dependant. [08:22] I know windows 7 very well and got interested in open source stuff not too long ago [08:22] I happen to be mainly a windows tech, but I used to be a FreeBSD fangirl back in the day. [08:22] <_Pete_> lolz [08:22] er, IS OS independant. its networking [08:22] Pirate: wery well being system services, partitions etc.? [08:22] Yeah but I meant that you aren't exposed to much in windows, nashi [08:22] Pirate: youre exposed to everything you allow yourself to be exposed to. [08:23] in windows [08:23] <_Pete_> nashi: freebsd fangirl is I guess all nerds dream woman [08:23] <_Pete_> what would be best to talk about kernel differences [08:23] eh [08:23] I knew about partitions and stuff but stuff like repositories and learning terminal is somewhat foreign [08:24] my main thing is PC hardware, not software. I also know networking pretty well [08:24] I don't think I have ever needed to use a terminal in windows, with linux it's like you have to [08:24] Pirate: terminal is quite simple after you get the logic, repositories are basically websites [08:24] Pirate: terminal is just a command line for linux similar to windows' cmd [08:24] I know computer hardware pretty well [08:24] but a hell of a lot more thorough [08:24] <_Pete_> luckily for windows there's good ones too [08:25] which I find I never need to use. [08:25] powershell didn't feel *awfully* crippled even if it wasn't handly like unix-like terminals [08:25] <_Pete_> in work I am forced to use windows :( [08:25] <_Pete_> so I have cygwin [08:25] windows is a lot more like the modern linucies than anyone wants to admit. you can use it like a toaster or dig as deep under the surface as you want. [08:25] <_Pete_> and hmm what was that, the former of 4dos [08:26] nashi: I wish linux worked that well for more people, for at least two releases [08:26] Ive found so few linucies are polished enough to not have issues when you become a power user. [08:27] but for a simple appliance, they are. [08:27] say someone that just browses the net and uses chat programs. [08:27] I consider "becoming power user" to include some "digging deeper" [08:27] the deeper you dig in a linux the more problems you find. [08:27] <_Pete_> nashi: simple applicance, like used in datacenters actings as most powerfull computer in earth? [08:27] exactly [08:27] but yeah, my parent's "just use" xbuntu [08:28] _Pete_: what the hell are you talking about? [08:28] we're getting kinda offtopic [08:28] <_Pete_> nashi: that's as I know most complex place where it is used [08:28] its like im over here in portland talking about portland and then all of a sudden youre talking about dubai [08:28] Power user = os mogul? [08:29] nashi: then read what he's wrtiting about dubai [08:29] "the code whisperer"? [08:29] power user is someone that already knows how they want some program to behave, as one example [08:29] <_Pete_> nashi: lolz [08:29] Sysi, I did, and it had NOTHING to do with what I had just said, despite him trying to say "like this?" So I responded saying that. [08:30] <_Pete_> is it about someones mind how programs behave? [08:30] so they dig into the os to make it work that way [08:30] Nope [08:30] start looking at this from an angle of someone that knows nothing about comps [08:30] they adapt to whatever they are given to get to the interwebs [08:30] <_Pete_> I would say real power user uses right tools for right things [08:30] nashi: then you should've told him linux desktop usage has nothing to do with special server usage [08:30] <_Pete_> which ever is most efficent [08:30] * nashi sighs [08:30] pete youre going waaaay the hell around my point [08:30] power user can administrate system [08:30] thats what I did say, Sysi [08:30] <_Pete_> then I missed your point :( [08:30] <_Pete_> what was it? [08:31] Yep. [08:31] nashi: it sounded more like "omg why can't you just understand" [08:31] ok first you have an end user / non tech. [08:31] If you are a power user and you dig into a program and change it to be better, then why not help the developers instead of using it on your own program and then having it break when there is an update? [08:31] they dont care how something works they just learn the basics of whatever basic system they need to do to get to what they want [08:32] <_Pete_> Pirate: first, for that to be even possible, the program in question you must have the source code for it [08:32] power users for example are a wide band beyond that, which begins somewhere around people which know how they want a program to act and be configured because they like it that way - for example knowing just how you like firefox to be set up and with what addons [08:32] and then greylines into techies at some point well beyond that [08:33] Yeah pete, I understand open source, I was just going off what I thought nashi was trying to say [08:33] <_Pete_> Pirate: and common way to do that in open source is that if you do some changes/improvments, you send patches to author [08:33] nashi is meaning changing as in changing settings, not source code [08:33] nah thatd be a programmer or hobbyist coder [08:33] Ohhhh ok [08:33] I misunderstood [08:34] <_Pete_> you could of cource keep the changes for yourself [08:34] <_Pete_> but I see no point in that [08:34] Right [08:34] <_Pete_> except you can be happy for while to have new feature [08:34] you hand someone a computer with linux and pidgin and firefox, you can tell the user level by how they react. the user level will try to just use whats there... the power user would put things how she likes it, and the techie would install the os they prefer before you come back from getting coffee. [08:34] <_Pete_> .. until for sure someone else finds out that and goes to public :) [08:35] now do you get what im trying to say? [08:35] <_Pete_> nashi: I think that all goes to that, where you are used to [08:35] <_Pete_> if you take a person [08:35] not entirely. its also their user level. [08:35] <_Pete_> who havent used *ANY* computer ever [08:36] <_Pete_> it doesnt matter is it linux or windows or solaris [08:36] <_Pete_> good example of that is my dad [08:36] Yeah I get it, but even mainstream facebook-users change things to the way they want [08:36] but I wouldn't want to call them powerusers [08:36] Not really. [08:36] <_Pete_> who was like 60years old when started to use computers [08:37] Pirate: changing wallpaper isn't same as configuring system services [08:37] <_Pete_> when he had no presumptions, he just needed to learn all [08:37] mainstream facebook users use whatever the system has for the most part - which is why internet explorer use refuses to die. [08:37] <_Pete_> was it windows or linux [08:37] <_Pete_> in the exactly same way [08:37] pete thats my smegging point [08:37] at first he was a user level [08:37] nashi: IE9 idn't that bad [08:37] *isn't [08:37] then he can graduate deeper as he wants to learn [08:38] Sysi: I disagree, but to each their own hon. [08:38] Alright I understand [08:38] nashi: I mean it's not horribly slow or (for what I know) insecure [08:38] And I haven't used IE for a long time but how is it not bad? How have they not given up on development by now [08:39] <_Pete_> for me it's sometimes hard to imagine these things [08:39] <_Pete_> since I have been using computers since I was ... [08:39] <_Pete_> hmm 7-8 years old [08:39] pete: were you born a techie? did you come out of your mother writing code and building computers? or did you start at user level and graduate to power user then techie? [08:39] I never once said people dont change over time [08:39] I'm not sure how much extra work it makes website makers to do though [08:39] I said people have user levels [08:39] <_Pete_> and thats 30years ago [08:40] congratulations? [08:40] <_Pete_> so it was quite a challenge to help my dad [08:40] <_Pete_> I couldnt anymore say: read the fucking manpage [08:40] <_Pete_> :D [08:40] haha [08:41] <_Pete_> earlier all my relatives known I am the "computer genious" [08:41] Genius. [08:41] <_Pete_> they used to call when they had probelms [08:42] <_Pete_> then I realized that being rude to them [08:42] <_Pete_> .. they didnt call anymore! [08:42] congratulations, you're an asshole? [08:42] <_Pete_> because I hate to be online support [08:42] Hah, since my family all uses windows it's really easy to help, I usually just get it over with as fast as I can [08:42] and here you are. in an.... online support channel.... [08:43] <_Pete_> yes [08:43] <_Pete_> but that's different [08:43] ubottu: tell nashi about language [08:43] nashi, please see my private message [08:43] Are you guys arch-nemesis'? [08:43] I make it plain to people that I spent a lifetime learning about computers and how to fix them, and I will help if they are kind and considerate and buy me food. [08:43] nashi: no offense, just channel guidelines [08:44] ok? I dont see language? [08:44] <_Pete_> Pirate: what's that? [08:44] arch-enemies [08:44] I just showed up here a few hours ago. [08:45] <_Pete_> Pirate: dont know, I used to be arch-wizard in mud, that is closest which comes in mind :) [08:45] heh [08:45] Haha, I was just asking why it seemed there was tension between you two [08:45] gawd that brings back memories... BBSes, LoRD... [08:46] <_Pete_> nashi: then you maybe delighted from my newest project? [08:46] <_Pete_> which is to port old pDirt code to Java [08:46] because there is. If I think something I say it - I believe in something I call brutal honesty. I don't insult people, but if I think they are being rude I say so. [08:47] .......java.... WHY!? oh, the humanity! [08:47] <_Pete_> this one https://github.com/petria/PDirtNG [08:47] Ah ok [08:47] why not something halfway efficient like mono or python? :) [08:47]