/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/09/#ubuntu-uk.txt

cgriffhamitron: I'm not one who can watch sports not even exciting stuff like rallying however if you were to give me a rally course and car, I'd probably be indebted to you forever00:00
hamitronsame00:01
hamitron:)00:01
hamitronnearest I can get is simulations/games online00:01
hamitron:/00:01
gordonjcpnever really got into watching sports00:02
cgriffI will admit that I will watch an international game of rugby but other than that I can't stand watching them. I'd play games about them either IRL or virtually though00:03
ali1234exciting... like rallying... wat?00:03
ali1234even when they crash... it's boring00:04
cgriffali1234: You would honestly turn down the chance to have a day on a rally course?00:04
ali1234well i can;t drive so there wouldn't be much point00:04
gordi'm sure it would be fun up until the point where you die00:06
ali1234fun until the first bend00:06
ali1234then the car is upside down00:06
cgriffI'd rather die in a ball of flames doing something fun than in a bed barely able to move to be fair. My brother's teh same00:07
AlanBellis there a third option?00:07
cgriffRadiation poisoning ;)?00:08
AlanBellanyhow, speaking of bed, night all o/00:09
cgriffNight \o00:09
gordhttps://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/01/top-10-ubuntu-software-centre-app-downloads-for-december-2011/ neat00:11
AzelphurAnyone know anything like gobby that doesn't suck?00:13
hamitronCrossover Games is free?00:15
hamitronbah, trial doesn't count as "free"00:17
hamitron:/00:17
ejosIs there any tftp server that works with the virtualbox pxe boot client01:45
=== ejos is now known as joeko
ballIs there any simple video editing software that works with Ubuntu? Nothing flashy, I'd just like to add a title at the beginning and perhaps prune out the odd section.02:59
* ball gives up and goes to bed.05:37
popeyMorning!07:41
MartijnVdS\o07:41
=== AlanChicken is now known as AlanBell
popeyhttp://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372040/ubuntu-tv-unveiled  \o/07:45
TheOpenSourcererNice popey07:45
TheOpenSourcererIs it Myth in the backend or completely new code?07:46
popeyits a concept ☺07:47
TheOpenSourcererAhh.07:47
TheOpenSourcerer"its a concept" == "No backend as yet" then.07:47
TheOpenSourcererLenovo 55" TV with Android http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/01/lenovo-puts-android-4-on-55-inch-tv-and-10-inch-tablet.ars07:51
TheOpenSourcerer"These products are all immediately available in China"07:54
DJonesMorning08:09
dwatkinshiya08:18
daubersMorning08:42
christelmorning beauties08:42
MartijnVdS\o08:43
AlanBellmorning08:43
popeyyes08:43
danfishMartijnVdS: Ray08:47
daubersNoticed netflix is now available in the UK08:47
* daubers is very tempted08:48
MartijnVdSdanfish: ?08:48
danfishMartijnVdS: sorry - mistype!08:48
danfishmorning btw08:48
christelooo08:54
MartijnVdSUh oh.. there's going to be chaos: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/09/mps-alcohol-drinking-guidelines08:56
AlanBellMartijnVdS: when the House of Commons bars are closed 2 days per week people might pay attention to that08:59
TheOpenSourcererA good friend of mine happens to be my GP too. He has recommended 21 units a day ever since I have known him. He's always in my local and is looking fine on it too ;-)09:00
MartijnVdS:)09:01
dwatkins21 units would probably make me fall over.09:07
MartijnVdSdwatkins: spread over the day, or at once? :)09:08
dwatkinsheh, even if just during a single evening.09:08
dwatkinsI used to be able to handle 5 pints in a night, any more and I'd just fail to be able to see.09:09
christelTheOpenSourcerer: is your gp that looney doctor at the rugby club by any chance?09:12
christel:P09:12
dwatkinsperhaps he part owns the pub...09:12
MartijnVdSHubert J. Farnsworth?09:14
christel(he is probably not a loon, but when i ran out of tramadol after surgery he prescribed me 2 months worth instead of a few days.. "just in case")09:15
christeli like him, but he is not my regular gp09:15
MartijnVdShmm opioids09:15
christeltramadol was rather fun i must admit09:16
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)09:58
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: the backend is a myth09:59
bigcalmThat's enough scroll back for me09:59
oimonbigcalm: anything good on the scrollback :P10:00
bigcalmThat's all I could be amused by10:01
popey:D10:05
Laneygood morning10:06
Laneyhow's .hu popey?10:06
popeyfun10:06
Laneyyeah that hotel is nice, and has decent enough pubs next door10:06
Laneywhy did my home connection choose today to go down :(10:09
czajkowskiAloha10:10
jussiczajkowski: heya! hows the back?10:10
dwatkinsLaney: mine goes down once an hour if I'm watching streaming media online :-/10:10
JamesTaitHappy Monday, everyone! :D10:11
czajkowskijussi: good thanks10:11
czajkowskijussi: hows things your end ?10:11
jussiczajkowski: no news :/10:11
czajkowskijussi: patiences10:12
LaneyI always have an SSH session to my home machine10:12
jussiczajkowski: tell that to Sari10:12
Laneymight have to nip back at lunch and poke it10:12
dwatkinsLaney: dyndns?10:12
oimontime for change of /topic to ubuntu tv/CES?10:12
dwatkinssorry, I mean "do you use dyndns in order to know the IP address?"10:13
Laney"static" ip10:13
Laneyso i just have a record in my domain10:13
dwatkinsheh, I used to have a fairly static IP with NTL10:13
AlanBellthere is an #ubuntu-tv IRC channel for those wanting to discuss/contribute to that10:23
AlanBellLaney: it is slightly disturbing when you are out and your home stops responding to pings isn't it!10:24
Laneyyeah it is rather concerning :(10:24
shaunoI'm not sure how NTL 'invert' my IP address here.  if I replace my router, my IP changes.  if I put the old router back, I get the old IP back10:31
BigRedSHah, the year I spent on Virgin put me off monitoring the connection to home10:31
shaunoer, 'invent'10:31
BigRedSshauno: dhcp leases are indexed by mac address10:31
shaunoyeah, but there was 3 or 4 months before I put the old router back10:32
BigRedSyeah, leases can be incredibly long. There's no reason for them not to be now that most connections are always-on10:32
JGJonesGreetings all - is it just me or is the Netflix sign up page not allowing one to sign up on Ubuntu?10:42
dwatkinsJGJones: I was just wondering about signing up for that (witout using facebook)10:46
JGJonesApparently there's an "sign up with your email" link if not using Facebook. I don't have a facebook account but even then I can't see a way to sign up with either method on Ubuntu10:47
dwatkinsI'm currently looking for that link10:47
dwatkinsPerhaps it doesn't work from the RoI10:47
JGJonesdwatkins, I've tried Opera, Chrome and Firefox -  link doesn't show (it's in the source though)10:47
JGJonesdwatkins, so am wondering if it's being blocked from showing up on non-Windows platform?10:48
oimontry ua switcher?10:48
dwatkinsJGJones: perhaps10:49
brobostigongood morning everyone,10:49
dwatkinshi brobostigon10:50
brobostigonhi dwatkins10:50
JGJonesoh wait...10:50
JGJoneswhoops seem to be my fault...10:51
JGJones/etc/hosts - facebook.com 127.0.0.110:51
dwatkinsI can't see a link to avoid facebook.10:51
oimonlol10:51
dwatkinslol nice :)10:51
shaunoI just signed up with facebook .. you can unlink it again from your user prefs after signup10:54
JGJonesdwatkins, after removing the facebook.com in my /etc/hosts - I now see the sign up...below the Facebook login part - there's an "sign up with a email" below the facebook login10:54
JGJonesbut sign up by email is via facebook? does that mean Facebook'll automatically make an account on my behalf??10:55
dwatkinsJGJones: I guess I'd best setup my proxy server - my internet access goes through Dublin10:55
shaunoit works from here, and I'm in the republic10:55
dwatkinshmm10:55
* dwatkins tries ff10:55
* daubers will need to borrow a long cat6 this evening to try netflix10:56
dwatkinsinteresting, Chrome fails to show me this, but Firefox shows it fine10:57
shaunoI kinda want to go down the beach & take pictures of helicopters (yes, I'm a nerd), but I'm not sure how polite that is when they're out there looking for floaters10:58
oimoni wonder how long before we'll all need fake facebook accounts to sign up for stuff?10:58
daubersThey do say that if you're not signed into facebook it should work on their twitter stream10:59
JGJonesfor UK...probably not long...over 30 millions accounts (just over 50% of population number)10:59
oimonalthough there are 20 million cats+dogs in the uk, they must account for a lot of accounts11:00
JGJonesThere is an email sign up link - but the fact that it doesn't show until I unblocked facebook is annoying. And I'll better not be getting emails from facebook after this.11:00
oimoni know some dogs on facebook. all of their friends are dogs too11:00
davmor2morning all11:02
* davmor2 hands czajkowski a soothing cup of Tea11:02
shaunohttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20Shot%202012-01-09%20at%2011.02.10.png   that's as far as I got with netflix :/11:04
oimonshauno: on apple or linux?11:04
shaunoon apple11:05
bigcalmCall the number?11:06
shaunoheh, I'm not callin the US for tech support11:06
oimonhttp://www.parisvega.com/how-to-fix-the-netflix-drm-error-n8151-in-google-chrome-for-mac/ ?11:08
oimonthey are talking about silverlight on that page11:08
oimonnetflix is silverlight too?11:08
JGJonesYeah11:09
JGJoneshence no simple solution to play it on Ubuntu if any.11:09
czajkowskidavmor2: ello11:10
davmor2czajkowski: how you doing kiddo saw you tweets11:11
shaunoI Didn't realise I had silverlight installed; but reinstalling it does fix that, thanks11:12
oimon:D11:13
oimonnow you realise there is nothing to watch11:13
JGJonesI'm mainly checking it out for subtitles support11:14
shaunoyeah.  very little european cinema, but a metric *bleep*tonne of chinese films11:14
shaunohopefully they're still signing providers up11:14
JGJonesLovefilm provide 0% subtitling with their steaming videos. According to Equality Act, it's not legal to do that, but then Lovefilm seem to be unable to get the licences required in order to show the subtitles while steaming(!)11:15
czajkowskidavmor2: not bad thanks11:15
bigcalmShall this be a subway Monday?11:17
popeyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq_WaOLjdyQ11:23
oimonhttp://www.ubuntu.com/tv now has a video11:23
popeyhttp://ubuntu.com/tv11:23
popey:D11:23
oimonlol11:23
shaunodwatkins: from what I'm reading, the email link only shows up if you're not signed into facebook, which would explain your disparity between browers11:24
oimonjust selected the HD version and fullscreened it on my big monitor. looks nice11:25
popeythe video doesn't do it justice, its a lot smoother in real life11:27
dwatkinsshauno: aha, thanks :)11:28
oimoni hope this gets into a freeview PVR11:29
dwatkinsoimon: it's available for the PS311:29
oimondwatkins: i'm talking bout ubuntu tv, what u talking bout? netflix?11:29
oimonpopey: what hardware running on? ARM?11:31
popeywe have x86 and arm images11:32
dwatkinsoimon: oh sorry yes11:32
gordonjcppopey: for Ubuntu TV?11:35
bigcalmThat was a nice video at 1080p full screen11:36
bigcalmWas hoping it was going to look more like AlanBell's mockups though11:36
davmor2popey: fancy not knowing that the tv site was up ;)11:38
popeybigcalm: we used big buck bunny ☺11:43
davmor2bigcalm: There's no pleasing some people though :P11:44
bigcalmpopey: that did amuse me :P11:45
bigcalmdavmor2: too right11:45
Laneywhat does it use for broadcast tv? mythtv?11:45
popeynot decided yet11:47
Laneyah11:47
Laneydidn't know how much of it was a mock up11:47
Laney(all?)11:47
shaunoopening with 'no more boxes / no more wires' is an odd one; are they looking at embedding this in the set itself? (rather than an stb)11:48
Laney"In a TV." implies so11:48
bigcalmYes11:48
Laneythat's the impression I always had tbh11:48
oimoncompanies like humax are already using linux in their pvr's. could be a good step for them to go ubuntu11:48
shaunohm. that's a shame :/  interesting, but ..11:49
bigcalmWhich is going to be interesting for those who want to continue using cable and/or satellite11:49
Laneywhy would it be incompatible with that?11:50
oimonthe advatage of a separate  freeview pvr is that it can be kept while the telly is upgraded..which happens a lot11:50
bigcalmLaney: didn't say it would be, but you'd still have more wires and remotes :)11:50
shaunooimon: or the other way around - I don't replace my TV outside of complete neccessity11:51
bigcalmIndeed11:52
bigcalmHappy with the one I have, spent enough on it11:52
bigcalmI'm sure there'll be a stb version11:52
shaunothe only reason my telly's as young (5 years) as it is, was that it would have been complete insanity trying to bring my old one with my from the US11:53
danfishthe music in that video - a black eyed peas remix - who's the budding DJ at canonical then ;)11:53
bigcalmFor instance, I don't use my TV's remote for anything other than changing the source input. When watching VM cable, _everything_ is done though their 1 remote11:53
shaunothat said, I'd be really tempted if half the rumours about apple entering the market turn out to be close11:55
popeythe demo is running on commodity hardware11:56
popey(a revo)11:56
dwatkinsI thought that was what AppleTV was all about.11:57
popeyso potentially you could run it on a set top box11:57
shaunothe appletv is basically an ipod with a hdmi port.  they've got all the pieces in place to do much better11:58
bigcalmI forgot. Today cannot be a subway Monday. Returning to my daily wii fit workout and not eating11:59
bigcalmT -3mins to self torture11:59
oimonthursday is best subway day12:05
oimoncheap BMT12:05
popey12:06
bigcalmI'm a sucker for the Chicken Pizziola(sp?)12:06
popeyoooh, lunchtime!12:06
bigcalmTorture time :(12:06
bigcalmRackSpace -> Bytemark @ 10.9MB/s :)12:08
shaunoanyone using dropbox headless, know how to set up 'selective sync' without the UI?12:10
DJonesTheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell: http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/01/uk-cabinet-office-betrayal-of-open-standards-confirmed/index.htm12:13
oimonDJones: :(12:14
MooDoohello all13:05
davmor2MooDoo: you old hippy how are you13:06
MooDoodavmor2: alreeeet youth :D13:07
davmor2MooDoo: so photo shoot with the new camera is this?13:08
MooDoodavmor2: speak english yoda :p13:08
davmor2MooDoo: So photo shoot, with the new camera, is this?13:09
MooDooam i doing one?  or have i done one?13:09
MooDoosorry confused13:09
davmor2MooDoo: You're doing the model day thingy aren't you?13:10
MooDoodavmor2: ah yes, april13:10
davmor2fair enough it sounded sooner13:11
MooDoodavmor2: i'll get the images online when i've editied them13:12
* smittix is playing cannon fodder13:35
davmor2smittix: An awesome old game13:46
MooDoosmittix: fab game :D13:47
daubersOoooh... new laptop14:01
MooDoowhat you got daubers14:01
dauberssamsung thing :) i5 based14:01
dauberswill try and install precise on it shortly14:02
davmor2wow samsung have gone a bit of the rails with their naming scheme now,  The Samsung Thing14:02
daubersIt's got 600b written on the case14:02
gord600 bee's?14:08
daubers\o/ bee's14:09
daubershttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgXwYWqd9Y14:09
czajkowskihttp://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/01/uk-cabinet-office-betrayal-of-open-standards-confirmed/index.htm14:11
hamitronbah, 128k internet.... gone over download limit ;/14:13
daubersczajkowski: Sad isn't it14:16
czajkowskiyup14:17
daubersShould put in a FoI request for details on any lunches/dinners/presents given to the various gov departments involved by Microsoft14:17
oimon+114:17
oimontelegraph are now covering the ubuntu tv story.14:30
oimonwhich is an improvement over their previous CES story which featured name drop of apple in each paragraph - somewhat impressive since they are not there.14:31
hamitron:)14:31
oimoni moaned at the journo about it14:31
oimonsee that they are making toy guns for adults now? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8998520/US-Army-introduces-video-game-weapons.html14:34
ali1234well it's about time someone rewrote mythtv from scratch14:36
directhexali1234, ?14:36
MartijnVdSand fixed DVB stream parsing (EPG)14:36
MartijnVdSali1234: ^14:36
ali1234no, EPG works perfectly with mythtv, it's about the only thing that does though14:37
directhexMartijnVdS, EIT works fine with valid packets. problem is the volume of bad packets that the software can receive from the driver14:37
oimoni've been waiting for a mythtv box that doesn't require setting up14:37
directhexlollerskates14:37
MartijnVdSdirecthex: My TV provider uses EIT for full EPG, but BBC seems to think that's below them and uses their own format, and uses EIT only for now/next14:37
oimonthe android tv screenshot looks lame http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ces/9001563/CES-2012-Google-Android-TV-announced-by-Lenovo.html14:38
directhexMartijnVdS, you're talking DVB-S?14:38
ali1234the big problem with mythtv is the user interface totally sucks14:38
* hamitron just uses an off the shelf device14:39
MartijnVdSdirecthex: yes14:39
ali1234hamitron: i can't do that because i don't have a TV14:39
directhexMartijnVdS, yeah, could be worse. seen what virgin do with DVB-C?14:39
ali1234also i don't have anywhere to put a TV14:39
hamitronali1234, Video In?14:39
MartijnVdSdirecthex: I've seen what Ziggo and UPC do to it. People cried that day.14:39
ali1234HDMI video in?14:40
directhexmonitor with more than one input?14:40
* hamitron hasn't got HD14:40
ali1234i'd be interested to see what this "one remote" looks like14:40
ali1234considering that there's still the dash where you have to type stuff14:40
ali1234is it just going to be a full size infra red keyboard?14:41
hamitronI got one of them sony dvd/hdd recorders, then just fast dub to dvd, to get a video saved onto the comp14:41
hamitronhassle I suppose14:41
hamitron:/14:41
MartijnVdSali1234: bluetooth14:41
ali1234full size bluetooth keyboard?14:42
MartijnVdSof course!14:42
hamitron:)14:42
MartijnVdSwith a mouse14:42
MartijnVdSor maybe a built-in touchpad14:42
ali1234that will go down really well...14:42
popeyboxee remote is what we use in demos of ubuntu tv14:43
dauberspopey: Is this your seecret project?14:43
daubersor is that something else?14:44
ali1234picture?14:44
ali1234http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/boxee-remote-2010-09-01-600-wmark-01.jpg14:44
popeythats the one14:44
popeyit's really nice in the hand14:44
popeysmall enough to lose tho14:44
bigcalmOooo14:44
bigcalmBluetooth or wifi?14:45
bigcalmOr other radio?14:45
popeydunno14:45
popeyI'd have to google14:45
bigcalmNot sure I'd want that as my _one_ remote though14:46
bigcalmI do like pointing to things with the wiimote14:46
ali1234personally i can't stand any kind of wireless controller14:46
bigcalmali1234: do you get off the sofa to change channels?14:47
ali1234i don't have a sofa14:47
bigcalmBeanbag?14:47
ali1234i have a computer and a desk and a chair14:47
ali1234i don't "change channels" i use mythtv14:47
oimonhope it's a comfy chair14:47
ali1234i use it through mythweb14:47
ali1234with a keyboard and mouse - wired14:47
oimoni take it you are single14:48
ali1234goes without saying really14:48
oimonif i was single i'd do the same, and not even have a tv or tv licence14:48
oimonbut my missis likes watching telly14:48
* daubers waits for laptop HDD to image14:48
daubersPrecise daily CD seems ok14:48
daubersoimon: I have no TV licence \o/14:48
daubersDon't watch broadcast :)14:48
* hamitron suspects there will be changes to tv license, to make it a requirement for streaming14:50
bigcalmEyeball tax!14:51
oimonwould be fair enough if you download the progs14:51
hamitronoimon, agreed..... and even my parents do it on their tv now14:51
hamitronso some may see it as a way to avoid "tuning in"14:52
hamitronwell, more than some.... enough to affect the amount of £££ collected14:52
popeydaubers: maybe ☺14:54
hamitronhow much data does iplayer transfer?14:54
hamitronsomeone has gone crazy on my internet connection yesterday :/14:54
oimonwhy are many ebooks on amazon £0.77 when they should be free?14:55
MartijnVdSoimon: tax.14:55
hamitronmaybe to cover cost of kindle transfer over 3G?14:55
oimonlazt/stupid tax?14:55
hamitronhow can something free have a tax on? :/14:56
* oimon goes to guternberg instead14:57
dauberspopey: You tease :p14:59
DJonesoimon: Don't forget you pay vat on ebooks as well :)15:11
oimonnot public domain ones that should be £0.00 :(15:12
oimonit's probably better for me to download epubs than kindle format anyway15:12
CaMasonpublic domain doesn't mean free15:15
CaMasonI could take any public domain content and sell it for £900115:16
AzelphurUbuntu TV looks interesting. I wonder how it will compare to MythTV15:16
oimonCaMason: which is why they are taxing the lazy/ignorant when you should be able to easily get it for free15:17
CaMasonthat's an argument that could be applied to most capitalism principles15:17
CaMasonalso there are numerous open-source projects that create books that are public-domain, but they sell them at a profit and use the funds for their project. Anyone can download them for free, but others can support the project15:18
shaunoPublic Domain doesn't mean it cost them nothing to produce either. One look at the Project Gutenberg books that have been auto-churned into ePub will show that there's manual effort in a well-produced end product15:21
CaMasonbasically, it's the libre vs free concept15:22
CaMasonor 'libre vs gratis' to be more precise15:23
daubersgah, caught myself zoning out by watching the size of my dd'd hdd image growing....15:28
Neoti_Laptop hi all... i have a simple but intresting question... if i get a win tv card to get satellite channels, configure TVheadend to send the channels in to xbmc-pvr but also open the port on my router to allow a friend to connect to my tvheadend session is that legal ? im only viewing freeview channels so will only stream them to a friend who does not have an arial ?15:31
oimonhttp://www.therestartpage.com/ sad lack of linux on here15:31
AzelphurNeoti_Laptop: I believe it's illegal to rebroadcast in any way, besides that, MythTV streams (which is what XBMC uses afaik) are absolutely huge and unless your both on insane 100mbit+ connections it won't work like that15:32
Neoti_Laptopnot using the mythtv plug in using TVHEADEND plug in as i dont like mythtv too much ...15:33
Azelphurnever knew that :)15:33
popeyAzelphur: its not quite clear cut about rebroadcasting live TV15:34
AzelphurNeoti_Laptop: but yea, it's probably the same, I think the streams from the card are like 2MB/sec so you'll need like 16mbit/sec up which nobody gives you xD15:34
popeythere is a loophole in the law which is how TVCatchup etc type services are legal15:34
Azelphurpopey: fun15:35
Azelphurpopey: I wonder if that means torrenting TV shows in my usual habbits is legal (I usually torrent them as they come out and watch them I want, basically time shifting them)15:36
popeyno, it doesnt15:36
Azelphuraww :(15:36
CaMasonactually I think re-broadcasting terrestrial UK TV is somewhat legal15:36
popeythere is a difference between re-broadcast of live TV, and torrenting which is redistributing pre-recorded content15:36
Azelphurpopey: isn't that what tv-catchup services are doing though? (redistributing pre-recorded content)15:37
popeyno15:37
popeylive only15:37
CaMasonif they are, they have permission to15:37
Azelphur*shrug*15:37
popeyother services like SeeSaw do have agreements in place to stream pre-recorded library content15:38
popeytvcatchup dont15:38
CaMasontvcatchup used to - they had to remove it15:38
hamitrontorrents are often making the material available to those who should not have access, also15:38
popeywhat was that other one that had a linux client for a while..15:38
CaMasonget_iplayer can be used to download BBC iplayer content, which is another grey-area15:38
Azelphurpopey: haha I can't remember it either, but I know the one your talking about15:39
popeyzoosomething15:39
CaMasonthere were some documents published by Ofcom last year that indicated such activity would be deemed legal - even if it circumvented DRM15:39
Neoti_Laptophumm..... so a grey area then .... ..... doh.... its never clear cut these things ... :P lol15:39
popeyget_iplayer doesn't circumvent DRM15:40
Azelphurpopey: Zattoo :D15:40
CaMasontechnically, format shifting in the UK isn't legal15:40
popeythats it!15:40
CaMasonI'll try and find the document... it was a bunch of proposals aimed at formalising what most people do anyway15:40
popeylike speeding, stealing pens from work...15:41
CaMasonprecisely15:41
AzelphurNeoti_Laptop: so basically legally grey area but you don't have the bandwidth to do it anyway unless you encode on the fly15:41
CaMasonspeeding = increase speed limit to 8015:41
hamitronAzelphur, get_iplayer lets those with not enough bandwidth watch stuff btw ;)15:41
Azelphurhamitron: fun :)15:42
CaMasonI use get_iplayer and stick stuff on my ipad for when I'm on the train15:42
Azelphurhamitron: also I thought you wasn't a pirate ;)15:42
CaMasonand my phone15:42
oimonanyone know what technology blinkbox use?15:42
hamitronAzelphur, I watch bbc content in the UK, via iplayer..... not pirating15:42
oimonthe free stuff is flash, but wonder about the paid stuff15:43
Neoti_Laptopthanks azelphur... and i do have the bandwidth 1GB of it ..... over fibre to his house next door... :P15:43
AzelphurNeoti_Laptop: oh, why are you forwarding the port then? Just let him connect to your LAN.15:44
AzelphurIt'll be much faster :)15:44
Neoti_Laptopi dont want him on my internal lan ....15:44
AzelphurNeoti_Laptop: so subnet him, problem solved! :P15:45
Neoti_Laptopinternet - Middle LAN - Internal LAN he will connect to the middle lan ...15:45
Neoti_Laptopah subnet ....15:45
Neoti_Laptopeven better15:45
Azelphur:)15:45
Neoti_Laptopyet again thanks Azelphur15:45
oimonwhy you have fibre to your neighbour?15:45
Azelphuryw15:45
Azelphuroimon: why wouldn't you? #occupytheinternet15:46
* Azelphur runs15:46
* oimon shoots15:46
Azelphurhaha15:46
Neoti_Laptopwe are geeks and was playing with fibre stuff a while ago and put it between our houses ... lol15:46
* oimon gets out the pepper spray15:46
Neoti_Laptopi think all you need to know there is the word GEEK ... lol15:46
Azelphur:D15:46
CaMasonone should know better than to ask "why?"15:47
CaMason"why not?" is the only acceptable question in GeekTown15:47
Neoti_Laptop:)15:47
gordonjcpNeoti_Laptop: fair enough15:47
AzelphurI may well be moving near to my brother and we've already talked about setting up something high speed15:47
oimonone reason not to employ geeks15:48
gordonjcpNeoti_Laptop: up here we used to have a bunch of 2.4GHz and 5.8GHz links between our houses15:48
gordonjcpNeoti_Laptop: moved on from that stuff now though15:48
CaMasonoimon, I employ several!15:48
oimonthey spend all their time geeking and not solving real problems15:48
gordonjcpso pretty soon the 26GHz NEC Pasolinks are getting delivered15:48
CaMasonoimon, not mine. I geek up and VNC into their screens15:48
Neoti_LaptopCaMason employ me ... lol15:48
hamitronoimon, haha15:48
Neoti_Laptopthen you can have nine geeks...15:48
Neoti_Laptopgordonjcp nice15:49
gordonjcpNeoti_Laptop: I plan on tuning them down to 24GHz so I don't need a commercial licence15:49
Neoti_LaptopNICE!!15:50
Neoti_LaptopLIKE IT15:50
oimonanyone know about the impending changes in 2012 regarding radio frequencies?15:50
gordonjcpoimon: in what context?15:50
oimonwireless radio mics, etc15:50
CaMasonMy office is 20 meters from the BT exchange... I wonder if there's any viability of a fibre link w/ BT15:50
oimoni think i am required to changes the frequencies15:50
gordonjcpoimon: oh, yeah15:51
gordonjcpit's not something I really deal with but I can find out15:51
AzelphurCaMason: If you live in Kent, not a lot of people realise you may be able to get VFast, which is very cool15:51
Azelphursadly I'm in a black spot for them :(15:51
oimonhttp://www.dmmusic.com/acatalog/2012_Spectrum_Changes.html15:52
CaMasonPlymouth here15:52
oimoni use 6 wireless mics and an wireless earpiece15:52
AzelphurCaMason: hehe15:52
oimoni'm getting interference issues.15:52
CaMasonquite far from Kent ;)15:52
AzelphurCaMason: I'm so gutted I'm literally just out of line of sight for it, right on the edge of 100mbit :D15:52
CaMason*sigh* it's taken the best of the day to install and patch a copy of Windows 7 for testing :/15:53
Neoti_Laptopsame here with Win XP .... sigh ... lol15:54
MooDooCaMason: didn't take me that long, but yeah it take a while,15:54
CaMasonmostly as I've had to keep checking, clicking, waiting... then check15:54
MooDooi did my sisters vista laptop the other day, took nearly 2/3 days at a few hours a day15:54
* jutnux awakens15:55
jutnuxQuick question: How do I stop losing connection when I put the computer to sleep?15:59
jutnuxI've Googled etcetera.15:59
bigcalmYou don't have a choice16:01
bigcalmTo sleep is to be off in essence16:01
jutnuxOf course it is, silly me :p16:02
jpdsWell, some stuff like SSH might start working again.16:02
oimonhow can i reproduce weird characters? e.g. ä without copy-paste16:02
bigcalmalt gr + some numbers16:02
oimoncharacter map says U+00E4 ?16:02
Olioimon: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ComposeKey16:03
jpdsoimon: Ctrl-Shift-U e416:04
jpdsoimon: Space.16:04
OliSo Compose-key (my altgr+rshift), ", a16:04
Oliä16:04
OliList of compose-key keys: http://hermit.org/Linux/ComposeKeys.html16:05
oimonthanks guys. i didn't have compose key configured16:05
=== timp is now known as _timp
jpdsNothing weird about ä thought.16:06
oimonthe only prob with right alt is that it kills the right alt 4 behvaiour for euro symbol16:07
* oimon just noticed there's a right win key :-\16:07
oimonhow long has that been there?16:07
OliA while :)16:08
jpdsoimon: apt-get install unicode; unicode euro16:08
jpdsoimon: Ctrl-Shift-U 20ac16:09
oimoni'm good now guys..thans for the myriad options16:09
AzelphurJust stumbled on this re the wacky home networks convo earlier: http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/06/24/impressive-home-networks/16:09
jutnuxLast of my mocks done today \o/16:10
hamitronjutnux, so we can mock you without retaliation? :D16:12
shaunogood lord Azelphur.  those make me feel like a luddite.16:13
oimontoday has been pathetic for productivity . i blame the 50% success rate in trying to sleep last night16:13
shaunoI hope I never need 10 terminals at home16:13
Azelphurshauno: haha16:13
oimoni used to have 10 in my hallway16:15
shaunoI thought mine was starting to look bad having separate firewall & router16:15
hamitronjust to clarify, what is a normal number of comps in home these days? :/16:17
hamitronat home16:17
hamitron;/16:17
christel$lots16:17
oimonsingle or married16:17
shaunoI'm not sure what you consider a computer anymore16:18
hamitronsingle16:18
bigcalmThen yes16:18
oimonas many as the floor will support16:18
hamitronah, god then16:18
hamitron:)16:18
christeli have less computers in the house since acquiring a family16:18
hamitrongood*16:18
hamitronso how many in a family home?16:18
bigcalmLiving with Hayley we have just 6 now16:18
bigcalmSod, 716:18
bigcalmI keep having to revise that number16:19
shaunoI'd say we have two computers.  what we actually have is firewall(debian), fileserver(debian), router(apple) in the office, two more routers dotted around for signal reasons, then his'n hers laptops, phones, an ipad, and a wee box under the telly16:19
oimonunless yo're popey, then probably desktop + spare desktop, laptop , spare laptop, tablet, smartphones, kindle, low powered ARM device16:19
hamitronI just wish people would stop throwing devices away, that I feel the need to save :/16:20
oimonand a box of obsolete tech that i really need to throw out: psion revo, palm m505, old phones,16:20
bigcalm2 workstations, server, 3 laptops, netbook. Phones not included16:20
oimonhamitron: want any of my junk?16:20
hamitronsure16:20
shaunooh, and an amiga in my room :D16:20
* hamitron facedesks16:20
bigcalmBugger, there's also the mythtv box. But that hasn't been used for a long time16:20
bigcalmShould do something with that some time16:20
hamitronoimon, nothing below i586 though, I have standards....16:20
hamitron;)16:20
ali1234i only have 2 computers and 2 netbooks16:20
oimonwhy would anyone want old PDAs is beyond me, unless they have issues16:21
shaunoI don't think of things like myth boxes & such as computers anymore.  they're computer-shaped appliances16:21
jutnuxCan't wait for the RASPBERRY PI to come out16:21
jutnuxHome server, DNS/DHCP16:21
christelmy two year old son has two computers, i figure at this rate he'll gain one for each year16:21
christelso i hope he'll move out by the time he's six16:21
hamitronI've just failed recently, with my conslidation plans.... got a NAS to replace a full file server, now runs them both :/16:22
ormiretoimon: old pdas ahve quite good processing power for electical power usage to make embedded stuff from...16:22
hamitronconsolidation*16:22
hamitrondevices live, to be used! damn it :/16:22
shaunohamitron: I've an old 1.8GHz celeron that never gets used anymore.  if I could afford the postage, I'd send it to you just to laugh at your pile :p16:22
oimoni have a broken apple g4 PPC in the loft16:23
ali1234i have a cupboard filled with old motherboards and cpus16:23
hamitronshauno, that would be an upgrade tbh ;/16:23
oimonlasted two weeks till i broke it16:23
ali1234and cdrom drives16:23
ali1234for some reason i have more cdrom drives than computers by a factor of about 416:23
ali1234i have no idea where they came from16:23
shaunoI only built that celery because it's (bar the cpu) chip-for-chip compatible with the apple DTK from the ppc->intel transition16:23
oimoni'm saving up to go to the dump with my dead laptops and computers16:24
hamitronmy oldest comp in use, is a p12016:24
hamitron:/16:24
oimonoof16:24
oimonmy first job involved a brand new compaq p133 on my desk16:24
oimonin 199616:24
hamitronp133 was top of the range, when I got my p12016:25
hamitronoutta my budget16:25
hamitron;)16:25
shaunoI've 1GHz "under the telly" and 700MHz on the firewall.  anything below that goes out to recycling16:25
oimondon't invite any women home whom you are interested in16:25
shauno(ignoring the amiga, which has earnt it's place, damnit)16:25
oimoni have a topfield pvr..no idea what kind of processor it has16:25
kaushalHi16:25
kaushalHi16:26
hamitronI'm tempted to drop everything below 300mhz soon16:26
shaunoI have the first-generation appletv.  it makes for a pretty SO-friendly xbmc box (given that my telly is only 720p, at least)16:26
* hamitron is lucky enough to have avoided Apple gear16:27
hamitron;D16:27
shaunoI'm glad htpc is finally starting to catch on as a "ready-to-ship" consumer unit, because previously, the fact that my wife doesn't want an atx tower sat beside the TV has gone largely ignored16:27
oimonbought an imac for colleague that arrived already borked16:27
hamitronshauno, hehe16:28
shaunoin this house, anything with a screen is apple-based.  anything without a screen is debian or ubuntu  (And we're working away from ubuntu)16:28
daubersPrecise install process, oinly found one bug16:28
hamitron12.04 is ubuntu's last chance here :)16:29
oimonhamitron: what's it gotta do to impress you?16:29
hamitronwork16:29
hamitron;/16:29
hamitronit will be for higher end comps only16:30
oimoni used to upgrade every 6 months until 10.0416:30
oimoncos times were exciting back then16:30
directhexwhen you were a lad16:30
oimonnow there haven't been any compelling features since 201016:30
directhexand ice creams were tuppence ha'penny16:30
hamitronaiming to have all 32 bit machines on slackware, then 64 bit on ubuntu16:30
oimonwhen we used to play in the street16:31
oimonfound a bunch of 5.xx ubuntu cd's t'other day.16:31
hamitron5.10 was actually my favourite16:31
hamitron:/16:31
oimonthink i used 4.10 first16:31
shaunoI used to build gnome from sauce twice a month.  then things got boring when canonical (or "no-name-yet.com") kidnapped jdub so garnome died.  then I kinda idled until apple moved to intel16:31
hamitron8.04 was good too16:31
oimon8.04 started getting wireless issues and video issue with intel not long after.16:32
hamitron10.04 is good, apart from it cost me so much time trying to get it working on older machines, I've grown to hate it16:33
hamitronI never had wireless16:33
hamitron:)16:33
shauno8.06 served me well as a server for a long time.  no complaints16:33
directhexi liked 8.0416:33
directhexit looked good16:33
hamitronwas slick too16:33
shaunonow, they barely want to know you if you're not running on amazon.  so my next itteration is moving back to debian16:33
directhexunlike some of the fail designs between 8.10 and 10.0416:33
oimonit's a sign of success for me , because there were nasty bugs in every release until 10.04 for me16:34
oimonweird kernel bugs too16:34
oimone.g. kernel wouldn't boot 4/10 on a battery < 15%16:35
hamitronif 12.04 fails, dunno what to do :/16:35
hamitronmay try 32 bit slackware, with PAE?16:35
Laneyfifteen miles, uphill both ways!16:35
bigcalm:D16:35
oimonsuspend still don't work for me though :(16:35
oimonon desktop16:35
shaunoI haven't tried slackware since my 386.  And I'd be surprised if it's changed much.16:36
shaunosounds perfect for hamitron ;)16:36
hamitronshauno, uses all the latest software... like normal16:36
hamitron;)16:36
hamitronadmit, the setup hasn't changed much16:36
hamitron;/16:36
hamitronwell, it has16:36
hamitronbut feels nice and old still16:37
oimoncan any clever people help me merge an ogv video and ogg music file together?16:37
shaunoI'll never forget that install, because I wound up with slackware because it was the only distro that'd let me use two floppy drives, instead of one drive + ramdisk, to complete the install with <4Mb ram16:37
hamitronoimon, man ffmpeg16:37
hamitron;)16:37
oimonffmpeg produces a file that is the length of the shortest file16:37
oimonmaybe i'm holding it wrong16:38
hamitronshauno, 4Mb ram support was dropped in slackware 11.0 sadly16:38
hamitron:/16:38
oimoni should probably ask MartijnVdS, he's good for that kind of question16:38
shaunobummer.  worked fine in 3.316:38
hamitron2.6 kernel is a beast16:38
hamitron:/16:39
shaunosomeone should make a distro aimed at grumpy old men.  I *know* there's a market for it16:39
hamitronmy fav distro of all time was actually slackware 8.1 though...16:40
hamitronshauno, hell yeh!16:40
hamitron:D16:40
shaunobasically freebsd for people who think that bsd is too wierd16:40
DJonesgrumpbuntu16:40
oimonopening firefox would actually open lynx embedded16:40
hamitronguess I'm not a grumpy old man of the past then, I prefer firefox.... 1.516:42
hamitron;/16:42
oimonwhat was it called before ff?16:42
hamitronnutscrape16:42
oimonfirefly or something?16:42
oimonbetween nuts and fox16:42
davmor2oimon: use openshot or pitivi16:42
hamitronoh, lemme look16:42
hamitronI still got it16:43
oimondavmor2: that will re-encode the file though?16:43
shaunolynx embedded?  you know there's a framebuffer version of elinks, right?16:43
oimon(or will it?) want to mux without encoding16:43
davmor2oimon: save it out as a different file16:43
oimondavmor2: i'll try. should take 1 minute rather than 29 mins :..16:43
shaunoI thought oggtools included a muxer16:44
directhexoggmux!16:44
oimonshauno: failed for me16:44
directhexmuxing is fragile16:44
shaunoogmmerge?16:45
oimonogmmerge: Error: the reader for out-1.ogv did not produce a header page.16:45
hamitronoimon, can't remember16:46
hamitronI got v0.516:46
oimonfirebird16:46
hamitronI not called it that16:47
hamitron:/16:47
oimonhttp://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=427816:47
oimonThe standalone Mozilla Firebird browser has been renamed to Firefox and received an upgrade to version 0.816:47
hamitronI found WinLinux 200016:47
hamitron:D16:47
directhexpfft16:47
directhexmozilla phoenix!16:47
oimonhamitron: are you that guy who i saw on telly with newspapers up to the ceiling?16:48
directhexhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Firefox#Naming16:48
oimonhe had a crawl space of only 2 feet to travel between rooms16:48
hamitronhehe, I just keep all apps and drivers I've downloaded.... in case16:49
shaunomy inner 12yo thinks that sounds fun16:49
hamitronespecially old win95 drivers and stuff16:49
shaunoI actually do that.  I have an external drive called 'vault' which has anything which I believe may be ruined in later releases16:50
hamitronyeh16:50
oimonhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076822/Richard-Wallace-hoarded-rubbish-seen-space.html16:50
hamitronand drivers for old devices, are sometimes hard to find16:50
oimonhe's skinny becuase it takes hours to reach the kitchen16:51
oimon"Mr Wallace warns that obsessive collecting is not a good idea as it takes over people's lives" --let that be a lesson mr hamitron16:51
hamitronone of my latest habbits... when I download something like openoffice.org, I download EVERY build of that version :/16:52
hamitronhaha16:52
hamitronit does ;/16:52
shaunothat's a little .. odd16:52
hamitronbetter than downloading a set of ISO for CentOS, marked "i386", to find they are in fact "i686" \o/16:53
hamitronman that annoys me16:53
shaunoi386 generically means "32bit" now.  I wish they'd find a better way to term that16:54
hamitroni686 works16:54
hamitron;/16:54
jpdshamitron: Can't you just... get with the future?16:54
jpdsIt's 2012.16:54
shaunoyorkshire and future don't mix well ;)16:54
* hamitron spanks shauno 16:55
oimonhowever, yorkshire and pudding does16:55
shaunoeee by gum!16:55
hamitronintel are still doing research work with i586 you will find16:55
hamitron;/16:55
hamitronso maybe I am in fact ahead? ;)16:56
hamitronbut it is still not an excuse for naming things incorrectly16:57
* hamitron growls16:57
shaunoreminds me, I have to figure out if there's anything interesting to do in london next sunday evening16:57
jpdsSay hi to amd64.16:57
MooDooby eck lad, yorkshire pud hmmmmm black pudding and bacon breakcakes yummy16:57
oimonanyone interested in this? http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/event/271593443316:58
oimonAt the fifteenth OSHUG meeting we'll be taking a look at wireless technologies. We will hear how you can repurpose low cost commodity equipment, we will be given an introduction to RF basics, and we will learn about the Contiki operating system16:58
oimonhere's hoping tomorrow will be more productive16:59
shaunomy favourite northern phrase (which I think might be yorks specifically), is "ff tha' ever does owt for nowt, allus make sure tha does it for tha sen"16:59
shaunough, *if16:59
hamitron:)16:59
shauno(I'm born a southerner but spent 20 years in the north & scotland.  the result is a helluva'n accent)17:00
DJonesshauno: With that mixture, it must sound like klingon17:01
shaunoit's actually not too bad.  me ma's from oxford, and that's what seems to come out as the general theme17:02
hamitronthat isn't bad? :|17:02
hamitron;)17:03
shaunobut spending 20 of my first 21 years up with the scary hairy northerners creeps in on a fairly regular basis17:03
shaunobut for kicks 'n giggles, 5 years in the US, 5 years in Ireland, and a geordie father .. just make the mix a little more difficult to place17:04
* oimon has only ever spent 3 years outside of a 4 mile radius of his birthplace17:05
oimonor including time spent at work, extend that to 12 miles17:06
hamitronsame oimon17:06
hamitron:)17:06
shaunooh gosh.  I think I spent less than 3 months within 50 miles of my birthplace17:06
hamitronwell, 12 miles17:06
oimonmy son was born in the same hospital as me, and will go to same school17:06
shaunoI was only born where I was because me pa was at sea, so she went running home to her mum17:07
hamitronI think it was nicer when everyone didn't travel all over tbh17:08
shaunoI've now lived in the south-west, north-west, north-east, and both coast of scotland.  and then the US & Ireland.  and not in that order17:08
hamitron"locals" making up the majority17:08
shaunoif the rumours pan out, my next move is going to be to romania17:09
hamitronyou looking forward to that? :|17:09
jutnuxoimon: My dad was born in the same hospital and I've gont to the same school ;)17:09
shaunooddly, yes17:10
hamitronI couldn't do it17:10
hamitronjust not my sort of thing17:10
shaunowell, see .. most my family were in the navy.  my mother, my first two fathers, more uncles than I can keep track of, several grandparents, etc.17:11
shaunoso this is the life I've grown up with17:11
hamitronyeh17:12
shaunoI can see that if you grew up in one place, the momentum is to carry on doing the same.  and there's nowt wrong with that17:12
hamitronI tend to prefer to stick to places with a similar culture17:12
hamitronaye17:12
jutnuxI'm moving out of the rubbish dump17:12
hamitronI'm slowly having to accept I may have to move for work17:13
hamitronthat or a life on benefits17:13
bigcalmhamitron: you could try working from home17:14
shaunothat's the bit that doesn't feel right at all.  that destroys communities17:14
hamitronbigcalm, I do17:14
hamitron;)17:14
directhexpeople not talking to their neighbors destroys communities17:15
shaunoI think if everyone moves, it's difficult for places to keep their own character.  however, myself, I'm more than willing to be the one that does move17:15
directhexthe british are massively reserved and avoid talking to strangers17:15
hamitrondirecthex, shauno, agree17:16
directhexstupid brits.17:16
shaunothere's rumours that in the next 18 months, we're going to be told to relocate to romania, or take redundancy.  and I'm totally willing to be the one that relocates17:16
hamitronI prefer the british way, directhex ;)17:16
MooDoowe're better than people in new york.....17:16
directhexwhoaaaaa i'm an alien17:17
shaunowell, yes, we don't shoot our neighbours, for the most part17:17
directhexi'm a legal alien17:17
directhexi'm an englishman in new yooooork17:17
hamitronshauno, we don't? :|17:17
hamitron;)17:17
shaunoI don't!17:17
shaunoaltho I have been shot by a farmer.  with salt-pellets.  which was more embarassing than painful.17:17
hamitronI shot my neighbours lights out17:17
hamitrontoo bright on a night :/17:17
davmor2shauno: you're not in wolverhampton manchester birmingham or coventry then right?17:18
shaunodavmor2: hah.  nah, I've lived north & south, and nowhere in between17:18
shaunoaltho manchester used to be our idea of a good night out17:18
davmor2shauno: haha17:18
shaunothe only downside was the first train home was 6am17:19
hamitronperfect17:19
hamitron:D17:19
shaunoheh.17:19
shaunothere was more than one evening where we spent far too long with no-one but a homeless buy & the btp to keep us company in that station17:20
hamitronbtp?17:20
shaunothe transport police17:20
hamitronheh, didn't realise there was such a thing17:21
hamitron;/17:21
jpdsMooDoo: I read "we're better than people" and I stopped reading.17:21
shaunothe railways have their own bobbies, who like to make sure you've got a good reason for sleeping in their stations17:21
MooDoolol17:21
MartijnVdSBTP? Better Than People?17:21
MartijnVdS:P17:21
shaunohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Transport_Police17:22
davmor2christel: You could always stop buying them?  computer convo from earlier17:22
christeldavmor2: don't be so sensible!17:22
christel:P17:22
hamitronshauno, I believe ya, internet too slow to load that link ;)17:22
davmor2christel: Me and sensible pfffffffff!!!!!!!!   /me picks himself up off the floor17:24
hamitronanyways17:24
hamitrontime for food17:24
hamitron:)17:24
hamitronbbl o/17:24
shaunoalmost related, I was in the UK last week .. were 20 pound notes always that big?17:24
shaunoit's difficult to explain how wrong it felt when I went "home" and all the money felt daft17:25
davmor2shauno: no twenty pound notes are tiny now you must of had counterfeit notes17:25
shaunodavmor2: newcastle, so that's a strong possibility17:26
shaunoI'm back over next weekend for a funeral, but dahn saff this time.  ugh.17:27
shauno(or up north, depending on how you view the watford gap)17:27
davmor2shauno: I view the watford gap as a huge hole in time and space that only the hardy northerns can make it through :D17:29
shaunooxford's not *that* bad17:29
shaunoaltho, I used to live in barrow in the north-west.  before I moved there, the navy lads described the a590 as a time tunnel too17:29
shaunoyou turn off the M6 at junction 36, go back 30 years, and arrive in barrow :/17:30
=== ejos is now known as joeko
shaunogrrr the ntl box didn't record sherlock18:05
brobostigonhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16474951 :)18:05
awilkinsBah, trains18:19
MartijnVdShmm trains18:19
awilkinsFreezing my extremities on platform for 25 mins is scheduled.18:19
awilkinsMiss train by 30 seconds18:19
* MartijnVdS has 4-6 trains/hour on the work<->home route18:19
awilkinsEwww, I thought 2 hours each way was bad18:20
MartijnVdSalso, heated stations with coffee bars18:20
awilkinsAt least yours are comfy efficient Dutch trains18:20
MartijnVdSawilkins: we complain about our trains as well ;)18:20
MartijnVdSthey tend to break down in holiday periods, when they reduce train frequency18:21
MartijnVdSso IF you have to wait, you have to wait long18:21
awilkinsYou wouldn't think this was a station in a major (top 5) city in the uk.18:21
MartijnVdSWhich city?18:21
awilkinsManchester18:22
MartijnVdSisn't that one of the first "train cities"?18:22
awilkinsVictoria station. I suppose it has a pub.18:22
MartijnVdSfull of angry travelers18:23
MartijnVdSwould-be ones anyway18:23
awilkinsThe trains are these old sardine cans they stuck bottlecaps to and put on the rails.18:23
MartijnVdSawilkins: I get these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VIRM6.jpg18:24
MartijnVdSOr these (with on-board wifi): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koploper_08-10-2006.jpg18:24
awilkinsThat is an *awesome*  train18:24
awilkinsDouble decker!!!18:25
MartijnVdSyes! and it's often so full people need to stand :|18:25
awilkinsThat one has a certain Soviet Bloc charm.18:26
awilkinsAnd Wifi... I'm lucky to get a mobile signal for half my journey.18:26
czajkowskialoha18:26
MartijnVdSawilkins: at least it's not the "duck"18:26
awilkinsBut ditto with the standing18:26
MartijnVdSawilkins: the high-speed train from Amsterdam to Rotterdam (and soon Antwerp): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fyra_Vught.jpg18:27
MartijnVdSawilkins: that one is _ugly_18:27
awilkinsI drive now - only do trains when wifelet is on call18:27
awilkinsThe fuel for a week costs less than 1 persons railtickets for 2 days - no contest.18:28
MartijnVdSouch18:28
popeyfuel, tyres, exhaust, servicing...18:29
awilkinsYeah, but 2 people sharing18:29
awilkinsAnd we'd have the car anyway18:29
popeylike you have a house anyway?18:30
awilkinsIn the sense that we have a use for both other than going to work .. yes18:31
awilkinsWe get these trains : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:142041_Northern_Rail_Castleton_East_Jcn.jpg18:32
MartijnVdSawilkins: Wow.. squart!18:32
MartijnVdSsquare18:32
awilkinsThey're so crap, they overheat in summer unless they run the cabin heating full blast18:32
cgriffNorthern Rail, not one of the best UK providers18:33
awilkinsThem and Transpennine18:33
awilkinsAt least Class 185s move18:33
cgriffFirst Great Western are rather good for me18:34
awilkinshttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_18518:34
gordonjcpahaha18:35
gordonjcppacers18:35
gordonjcpbasically a 1970s Leyland bus with different wheels18:35
awilkinsThey were last built in '86, didn't realise18:35
MartijnVdSWe also get http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SprinterLightTrain2402b.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SGMm_2983.JPG for short distances18:36
gordonjcpawilkins: yup18:36
gordonjcpnow you'd think that since the technical requirements for a little DMU like that and a normal bus aren't *that* different it would be dead easy18:36
gordonjcptake the bus engine and gearbox18:37
awilkinsThey fail so often they end up with 1 unit on the morning commute which makes for a lovely view of someones armpit and punchups on the platform.18:37
gordonjcpstick it in an existing DMU bokey18:37
gordonjcp*bogey18:37
gordonjcpsweet18:37
gordonjcphowever what they don't take into account is that in a DMU the engine is run pretty much flat out for most of each trip18:37
gordonjcpand the radiators aren't sized accordingly18:37
gordonjcpwith hilarious consequences18:38
awilkinsBaked passengers.18:38
awilkinsThey run the heating to cool the engine off in summer.18:39
gordonjcpyes18:39
gordonjcpit's a handy tip actually18:39
gordonjcpif your car is overheating stick the heater on full blast and see if that helps18:39
MartijnVdSworks for cars too18:39
gordonjcpit might make the difference between getting to a layby and breaking down on a blind bend18:39
awilkinsWe seem to be getting some new rolling stock though. Second hand from Network West Midlands -they've not finished scraping off the logos and repainting them yet.18:41
awilkinsA shame we'll never get those Dutch double deckers. Our tunnels are too poky.18:42
gordonjcpIIRC the Leyland bus they based the Pacer on used a Leyland marine engine18:42
gordonjcp8 litre straight-six18:42
zleaplol,  in the south west we are getting 2 new carriage I think18:42
gordonjcpheads and cylinders cast as a unit so there's no head gasket to fail18:42
gordonjcpbut on the other hand just about everything involves pulling the engine out and taking the crank and pistons out >.<18:42
awilkinsI used to love that old stock down south with a corridor and doors and cabins with seats facing each other - I think they used them on Hogwarts Express18:43
gordonjcpIIRC the technical manual for those engines came with an extensive encyclopedia of rude words18:43
AlanBellawilkins: some stock like that is still running on a heritage line near me, they do a regular steam pulled beer train which is great18:44
AlanBellhttp://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT18:45
awilkinsAh yes, remember that from my youth.18:46
TheOpenSourcererEvening AlanBell18:46
TheOpenSourcererBack?18:46
zleapwb18:46
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: yes, back now18:47
TheOpenSourcererOuch! http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2012/jan12/01-04CometPR.mspx18:48
awilkinsOOps. Surely only the OEM license should matter though...18:50
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: that happened last week18:51
AlanBellI suspect it is a power and control issue18:51
awilkinsI found it very annoying that reinstalling my daughters laptop (OEM license) from my retail disk may or may not be illegal18:51
directhexit is a power & control issue18:51
AlanBellcomet did something outside the terms of the agreement (alegedly)18:52
directhexcurrys were being consumer-friendly by providing reimaging CDs, which were useless without the legitimate license keys affixed to the laptops18:52
directhexmicrosoft don't like consumer-friendly18:52
TheOpenSourcererI thought this Press Release was todsy - I did see the discussion last week but didn't think it was "official". But the date on that release is last weel so I will go and crawl back under my rock.18:53
awilkinsThey were *selling* them, not entirely selfless act... I bet the markup was quite profitable18:53
AlanBellso there will be an out of court settlement and comet will agree to a more restrictive contract18:53
awilkinsKnowing Comet they priced them like a 3 year warranty..18:53
jutnuxI thought Dell sold recovery discs also?18:53
awilkinsDell ones only work on Dell hardware18:54
awilkins(unless you rip em and delete the ID file)18:55
directhexcurrys ones were per-hardware images18:55
directhexi.e. one image for an hp foobarbaz, one for a packard bell shonkmeister2000, etc18:55
directhexbasically pre-burning those painful recovery partitions you get on modern computers18:55
awilkinsDid they roll the drivers in? That's substantially more useful than he default Windows ones.18:55
TheOpenSourcererAfter spending 2 days updating a Windows 7 Virtual Machine from clean to latest patches, I really wonder why people still buy their software. It's crap. I lost count of the number times it had to reboot and then get some more stuff, then do something silently for ages, then reboot again...18:56
awilkinsHad to spend 2 hours burning DVDs for the daughter laptop18:56
directhexawilkins: indeed. specific images with all drivers18:56
awilkinsI had win7 reboot 5 times for updates a day or so after I installed it.18:56
directhexTheOpenSourcerer: lock-in.18:57
TheOpenSourcererA brand new vm for Win7 with no extra apps is now 19.5GB!18:57
awilkinsReported by windows or size of disk image?18:57
TheOpenSourcererThat's the size of the VBox dynamic image file, as reported by Ubuntu.18:58
awilkinsYick18:58
TheOpenSourcererMy XP VM, which is years old and been used frequently, is less than 10GB18:58
awilkinsYeah, I have one with a full VB6 devkit and MSDN library that's only 8gb19:00
awilkinsBut I avoid Windows for work as much as possible now.19:00
awilkinsThe images they use at work spend more time doing ICTs bidding than mine.19:01
TheOpenSourcererI only really use them for testing web sites in various versions of IE, and now a new vtiger CRM plugin for Outlook. But that's all I use them for,19:01
awilkinsOur IT policy is going into super#paranoia mode. If they actually enforce it we won't be ablw to work.19:03
directhexTheOpenSourcerer: amd64?19:03
awilkinsAll apps must be approved, £2,000 a pop for approval.19:03
awilkinsEclipse19:04
awilkins is not on the list19:04
directhexTheOpenSourcerer: win7 is about 10 gig smaller than vista19:04
TheOpenSourcererdirecthex: amd64 what?19:04
directhexwindows19:04
TheOpenSourcererHost?19:04
awilkinsalong with about 100 other packages on my windows machine19:04
directhexit's about 8G bigger than i38619:04
TheOpenSourcererAhhh! I did install the 64bit version, yeah.19:05
awilkinsFat chance of us tumping up £200,000 to continue working...19:05
directhexit needs 64-bit versions of all the libs and many apps, y'see19:05
TheOpenSourcererSo it's multi-lib19:05
directhexyeah19:06
TheOpenSourcererOK. TY, that makes more sense now.19:06
directhexstill, 19.5G seems an overestimate19:06
directhexremember it makes a restore point for every windows update invocation19:06
TheOpenSourcererBut my Ubuntu Desktop is 64 bit and with all the apps takes about 4G IIRC.19:06
directhexso you'll have backup versions of many of those libs19:06
awilkinsVDI files grow but don't shrink19:06
TheOpenSourcererawilkins: Yes, I know that too.19:06
awilkinsI think the SxS stuff on windows actually uses hardlinks too (!)19:07
awilkinsBut yes, Ubuntu uses peasly disk space in comparison19:07
TheOpenSourcererAs I said when I started, I'm amazed people still buy the stuff, it's pretty crap really.19:08
TheOpenSourcererThe power of Marketing and lock-in.19:08
awilkinsComparing the installers is very informative.19:09
awilkinsWindows installer hasn't had to improve in years.19:09
ubuntuuk-planet[Andrew] Cairo Context/Surface to Gdk Pixbuf - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/cairo-contextsurface-to-gdk-pixbuf/19:10
TheOpenSourcererHah! "Steve Ballmer just jumped on stage at #CES demonstrating the huge advances made in stage strengthening technology"19:12
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: Harsh, true but harsh19:13
AlanBellwow HP servers are *noisy*19:13
TheOpenSourcererBeing a fully paid up member of the FB club myself, I'm allowed to say that :-)19:13
davmor2AlanBell: they do sound like Jet till the kernel kicks in19:13
* TheOpenSourcerer hopes AlanBell isn't going to install some non-production ready version of an operating system...19:14
* AlanBell is downloading precise server for totally unrelated reasons19:15
AlanBelljust sticking a live 11.04 desktop in for now to get the specs of it19:15
jutnuxWalking a friend through some parts of Ubuntu \o/19:20
jpdsThere's a place called Ubuntu?19:27
ubuntubhoyis it possible to set an app to appear on all desktops?19:27
jutnuxjpds: It's located in France, London.19:28
jpdsubuntubhoy: Right-click the title bar.19:28
ubuntubhoynot in title bar, its on-board19:29
ubuntubhoyI want it to appear on all desktops when started19:29
ubuntubhoythat way when minimised the icon is on all desktops19:30
ubuntubhoyas opposed to just the one it was minimised on19:30
AlanBellubuntubhoy: onboard should do that anyway I think19:30
ubuntubhoyit doesnt19:30
ubuntubhoywell, not that I can find how19:30
jacobwevening19:31
ubuntubhoyunless gnome shell is the issue19:31
ubuntubhoymaybe have to try with unity19:31
AlanBellubuntubhoy: in the onboard preferences there is an option to show always on visible workspace19:31
AlanBellubuntubhoy: what version of Ubuntu?19:31
ubuntubhoy11.1019:32
AlanBellI am running the upstream version of onboard from trunk, but I think that option has been there a while19:32
ubuntubhoyusing proposed19:32
directhexawilkins: the vista installer was light years ahead of the older 2k installer though (used by xp and server 2k3)19:32
directhexawilkins: couldn't even load drivers in the nt5 installer from anywhere but A:\19:32
AlanBellubuntubhoy: running 3d or 2d?19:33
ubuntubhoyneither, gnome shell19:33
AlanBellerr, oh19:33
ubuntubhoybut cant find the option for all workspaces19:33
AlanBellin the general tab, under desktop integration19:33
jutnuxCan't wait for these Raspberry PIs19:36
ubuntubhoynope, not there for me19:40
ubuntubhoyunlocking status & tool tips only19:40
AlanBell:(19:41
ubuntubhoynot a biggie, just really wondered19:41
AlanBellI will have a look on my less hacked about desktop later, can't now because a big fat server is in the way19:41
AlanBellupstream onboard is great, it fades in when you are on an editable field19:42
ubuntubhoythats what I really want19:43
ubuntubhoymight have to look into that19:43
zleapwhen is the next podcast thing on ?19:51
DJones!podcast20:02
lubotu3Grab the lastest Ubuntu UK Podcast from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org20:02
DJonesThought that might have had a date on it20:02
zleap21-12-1120:03
zleapso nearly 2 weeks ago20:05
awilkinsSo, Ubuntu TV ... want?20:08
ubuntubhoynot unless you can theme it20:09
ubuntubhoyfugly son of a bitch that it is20:09
awilkinsDoesn't look like MythTV, looks like a bunch of lenses backing onto some kind of service (that might be MythTV, or something else)20:09
awilkinsI'm sure you can remove the Ubuntu Purple wallpaper20:09
awilkinsThe big question of course is, will the sources be available....20:10
awilkins"ubuntu TV prefers GPL v3"20:11
awilkinsNice20:11
zleapyou can change the desktop background in 11.0420:13
TheOpenSourcererOooh - Jasper Carrot, followed by Horizon - Hunt for the Higgs, on TV tonight. Laterz.20:16
jacobwwhen's 'hunt for the higgs'?20:17
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: I hate to ruin you're night but the higgs is over there in the large hadron collider the end ;)20:17
zleapHorizon at 21:00 is about the search for the higgs boson20:21
AlanBellwhat is an easy way to do tail -f to an IRC channel?20:25
AlanBellwith irssi or a bot or something, I want it to speak each line of a file as it happens20:25
brobostigonjasper carrott, now, bbc1, good comedian.20:29
swat_very impressed with 12.04 :)20:34
swat_so far20:34
dutchieAlanBell: i'm sure you could throw a shell script or something fairly quickly20:40
czajkowskihmm having some issues http://twitpic.com/85czwx/full20:46
bigcalmczajkowski: I blame davmor220:48
gordonjcpczajkowski: that's very similar to the graphics corruption I get20:48
bigcalmAlanBell: I'd say with a bot20:48
bigcalmOr, with a irssi perl script20:49
czajkowskigordonjcp: kinda doing my nogging in this evening20:49
gordonjcphttp://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/corrupt.png20:49
gordonjcphttp://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/corrupt2.png <- more obvious what's going on there20:51
zleaphmm,  on 11.04 if I run amsn then minimise this to the side bar thing, it seems to crash and won't let me re-open it,20:52
AlanBellbigcalm: yeah, I am thinking custom python bot, then I can do the real magical part which is read stuff from the channel and pipe them into X as keystrokes21:00
j0nrhelloall21:01
j0nrwith a space21:01
j0nrI got a new laptop. It has come with Win7. I haven't looked in detail yet whether it has multiple partitions... but I do plan on resizing the windows partition so I can dual boot windows...which I have done many times before...21:03
j0nrI havent turned it on yet as I want to do it right first time21:03
j0nrI am planning on creating an image as it is out the box with clonezilla, so if anything goes wrong, I can restore it to out-of-the-box condition21:03
j0nrshould I do this before or after I resize partitions for ubuntu21:04
j0nr?21:04
AlanBellhi j0nr21:06
* AlanBell has no idea, but thought I would say hi21:06
popeyi would personally not do what you plan to do21:07
popeyi would boot into windows, and use the recovery tool to make the installation media _first)21:08
popeys/\)/_/21:08
popeythen do the partition shrinking or whatever21:08
j0nrhello AlanBell :)21:09
j0nrpopey: you think using the built in backup service is better?21:09
popeybackup service?21:09
popeyI'm talking about the media21:09
popeyif you clone it then restore it you're going to reset yourself to the same position as you are in now21:10
j0nrits a Dell so it does come with this....yes I mean the preinstalled program to make a restore disk21:10
popeyyeah, because you will need those if you ever want to reinstall21:10
j0nrpopey: yes thats my plan, so if I ever mess it all up I can return it to as it was out the box21:10
j0nrconfused21:12
popeywhat is confusing?21:12
DJonesj0nr: I did two machines about 6 months ago, I used the builtin windows recovery tool to create the backup disks, then used windows to shrink the c: drive, before installing ubuntu21:12
j0nrIts got Dell DataSafe (if that means anything) which will create recovery media (usb stick or DVD - neither of which I have to hand)21:13
j0nrwhy is using that preferable to cloning the drive to an image with clonezilla?21:13
popeywhy will you ever restore from the clonezilla image?21:14
j0nrif the window installation goes pete tong21:15
j0nrrestore the image I take back over the windows partition21:15
popeyyou can restore a large clone over a small partition these days?21:16
j0nrare you asking me or highlighting my ignorance :) ?21:16
popeyi am asking21:16
popeylast i tried you couldnt21:16
popeybut maybe i am not an expert with clonezilla21:17
j0nrI don't know...21:17
j0nrI did wonder that...so thought maybe I should do my partitioning ready for ubuntu first21:17
directhexAlanBell: protip: uinput is an easy API which lets you create keystrokes.21:18
directhexkernel level21:18
popeyi wouldnt do that either j0nr21:18
AlanBellthanks directhex21:18
popeyyou have no backups and you're about to do something to the partition table21:18
j0nrbut say I use the built in create restore functionality, will that have the same problem if I then subsequently shrink the windows partiton and need to restore it later?21:18
popeydepends if the restore tool has options for which partition to install onto or whether it just blats the disk21:19
j0nr:/21:19
AlanBelldirecthex: that looks perfect. I am thinking of piping speech dispatcher output as text into IRC and having keystrokes go the other way, so you can control an Ubuntu desktop GUI over IRC21:20
directhexAlanBell: use http://lang-world.com/cakemote-mythtv/bd-remote-mythtv-svg.tar.gz as a sample piece of code for emitting uinput events via python21:20
popeygrrr, screen still doesn't update properly22:03
popeymight go and poke a developer tomorrow22:03
swat_popey: really? screen? like the shell program screen?22:07
popeyno22:13
bigcalmpopey: got a moment and an iOS device with you? :)22:15
popeyya22:16
bigcalmI can't see a problem via my Android devices22:18
ejosCan i save my iptable rules to /etc/network/iptables22:24
gordhaven't even managed to say hello to popey all day, he's hiding i'm sure22:24
bigcalmgord: have you ventured into foreign lands as well?22:34
gordbigcalm, yup, uds and platform sprint, always at both me22:38
bigcalmFunky22:40
bigcalmAre things going to be ready for April?22:40
popeyi said hello to gord twice today ☹22:43
gordi've not seen any hellos!22:51
gordpopey, did you manage to bring some pg tips with you? completely forgot, can only live on starbucks for so long (one day)22:51
gordbigcalm, sure why not ;) precice is pretty good atm even, especially the power management work, doubled my battery life22:52
gordused my laptop all day, building unity and stressing out the cpu, only plugged in for half an hour before lunch22:52
awilkinsI put it in a VM, idle inspection didn't reveal any really obvious differences from Oneiric, but I suppose that's to be expected from an LTS22:54
popeygord: sadly forgot22:56
gorddang, oh well, home in a few days22:56
gordfor some of us ;)22:56
popeybah22:58
popeyi have a week22:58
Nafallopopey: it's fine. you have me here :-)22:59
AlanBelldid you find somewhere to dance?23:01
mgdm"we can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind..."23:03
bigcalmIt's always best if you do the safety dance23:09
ubuntuuk-planet[Alistair McKinlay] Tech Predictions Review: 2011 - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/01/tech-predictions-review-2011/23:10
matttany recommendations for/against learning python 4th edition (o'reilly) ?23:15
davmor2Evening slackers23:16
Olimattt: I have the 4th pocket edition. Also had the third ed. Superb little references for beginners and all you need if you're already a programmer (and understand concepts like inheritance, arrays, etc)23:17
matttOli: ah, not the pocket reference, the full blown book :)23:18
Olimattt: But to be perfectly honest, I'd probably go for the version that avoids mentioning anything about Py3k. It's not ready for general use. The language is, the rest of the world is not and if you try and use it in any meaningful project at the moment, you just end up wanting to import libraries you can't because they haven't been ported.23:19
matttOli: yeah, can't find a 2nd hand copy of 3rd edition on amazon :(  2nd edition is plenty cheap, but covers python 2.3 ... surely that'd be a problem?23:22
Olimattt: Pffft. I doubt you'd have a problem. I think you'd get the overriding gist of what Python is about. You'd be missing conditional expressions (which are frankly quite messy, eg: v = a if b else c), some information on the with statement and some very obvious string functions. The rest of the differences between 2.3 and 2.5/6/7 are probably edge case for most people and won't be in a book for any length.23:26
OliIf you're buying a book to learn Python, it will do well. If you're buying a book to learn every nook and cranny of Python, buy a newer edition.23:28
OliBut buy the pocket ref as well. 4th ed does manage to split up 2.6 and 3.x well. I expect there's a 5th ed out now which does the same with 2.723:30
gordonjcpyup23:30
matttOli: nah, i'm more interested in general concepts, not edge cases :)23:30
gordonjcp12.04 has *exactly* the same graphics corruption23:30
ali1234which driver?23:31
matttOli: thanks for the info, that helps quite a bit23:31
ali1234mattt: what do you want to do with python?23:32
matttali1234: system programming/scripting, and i use django a bit ...23:33
gordonjcpput it this way23:33
gordonjcpPython 3 has finally pissed me off enough to ditch Arch for Ubuntu23:34
matttoh yeah, arch is on python 3 aren't they :/23:34
ali1234hah, bleeding edge too bleeding for you now?23:34
matttthanks for the help guys, going to nab a used 2nd edition from amazong23:35
mattt*amazon23:35
Olimattt: If you've got a few hours where you just want to sit down and learn by rote, there's always "Learn Python The Hard Way". Despite the dubious name, it's actually pretty decent. And free for the online version with a multitude of purchasing options if you want a different format: http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/23:40
gordonjcpali1234: well it's more that I have to put something together that will be mostly deployed on Ubuntu23:40
gordonjcpali1234: so I have to put up with the horribly old packages that Ubuntu ships23:41
BigRedSOh man, I just stuck Oneiric on a staging server because such a *new* version of python/django was required23:42
OliBigRedS: I did that last month. Jumped from 9.10 to 11.10 (4 upgrades) on two servers in two hours. That was bracing.23:44
OliBigRedS: And because I live life on the edge, those servers were both production servers. There's nothing quite like fixing Django deprecations at 3am :)23:45
gordonjcpwhen I upgrade my server to Debian Obsolescent from Debian Moribund I'm basically going to scrap my website and start again from scratch23:46
gordonjcpit's on such an old version of Django23:46
BigRedSgord: yeah, I came from Debian Modern straight through to Ubuntu ohmygoshimbleeding23:46
* BigRedS might be classed a 'luddite'23:46
gordfix yer tab complete23:47
BigRedSOli: Ah, i was just trying to get somebody's code to work on Squeeze with as few Testing bodges as possible, and about five hours in scrapped it and started over with the actual versions he was using23:47
gordlast spoke first, not alphabetical23:47
BigRedSgah. New, less good, IRC client23:47
BigRedSgordonjcp: ^^^23:47
BigRedSwell, new, still-defautly-configured irc client23:48
OliThis is perhaps a lesson to use virtualenv for Django. I know I need to but it's comforting to know there are others in the same boat :)23:50
BigRedSI just use virtual machines for everything now :)23:59

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