[00:11] <Saviq> Guus-, it's best to write to join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv and write to the mailing list there
[00:16] <davilla> I'm very confused by this statement on the contributors page "Myth TV and XBMC are popular open-source TV projects, particularly in the Ubuntu community. We’re very pleased to collaborate with members of both communities, enhancing the quality of back-end code that is shared between projects." As a mainline XBMC dev, 1st that I've heard of any collaboration. None of the other XBMC devs know anything about this either.
[00:16] <davilla> What gives ?
[00:18] <wagnerrp> davilla: heh... i was thinking the same thing
[00:18] <wagnerrp> there was some group discussion on irc we were all invited to late last october
[00:19] <davilla> did you go ?
[00:19] <wagnerrp> and one i see two of the mythbuntu guys in here (one has been active on their mailing list)
[00:20] <wagnerrp> no, didnt make it, they mentioned it in our dev channel shortly before it happened, the day ove
[00:20] <wagnerrp> *of
[00:20] <davilla> while the statement is flattering, it's quite misleading to the open source community at large.
[00:30] <mrand> Maybe it's supposed to be future tense... i.e., they intend on collaborating.
[00:31] <davilla> hehe, I think they know enough of the english lang to know the difference.
[00:31] <wagnerrp> ah, make that three
[00:32] <wagnerrp> there was discussion on the list about using mythbackend to provide their PVR capability, but i havent had a chance to look through the code to see if that went anywhere
[00:34] <davilla> says gstreamer based, while we a gst codec working, it's pretty raw right now.
[00:34] <wagnerrp> its likely gstreamer based because its qt based
[00:35] <wagnerrp> the two are pretty closely tied together
[00:35] <davilla> there is an internal gstplayer for embedded but that's not been made public yet.
[00:36] <davilla> "There are no branches related to Ubuntu TV in Launchpad today."
[00:36] <davilla> ok, where's the code ?
[00:38] <Kaleo> davilla: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing
[00:38] <Kaleo> davilla: the wording seems a bit confusing
[00:39] <wagnerrp> or you can browse... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/!s-team/ubuntutv/trunk/files
[00:39] <Kaleo> davilla: but I am french, so not too sure
[00:39] <wagnerrp> make that... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~s-team/ubuntutv/trunk/files
[00:39] <Kaleo> davilla: the intention is "we would love collaborating whenever possible/makes sense"
[00:39] <davilla> very, I'm native english speaker and I find it confusing
[00:39] <Kaleo> davilla: I am sorry about that (I am one of the developers)
[00:40] <davilla> ahh,
[00:40] <davilla> Can you correct it please.
[00:41] <Kaleo> davilla, wagnerrp: nice to meet you!
[00:41] <Kaleo> davilla: I can definitely try to find out who writes these things :)
[00:41] <wagnerrp> davilla: looks like they use your metadata processor, i assume to generate your XML-based nfo files
[00:41] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: we did yep
[00:41] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: but it's offline
[00:41] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: more to demonstrate the concept
[00:41] <wagnerrp> ah
[00:41] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: thanks a lot by the way
[00:42] <Kaleo> (the concept of the UI)
[00:42] <Kaleo> (not the concept of the metadata processor=
[00:42] <wagnerrp> huh?
[00:42] <wagnerrp> i havent done much of anything in regards to UI work
[00:44] <wagnerrp> anything recent UI related in mythtv, you would be looking for Stuart Morgan, or possibly Robert McNamara
[00:45] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: sorry, there was a misunderstanding
[00:45] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: I was saying thank you for the great metadata processor; but now I realised that you are not part of XBMC, right?
[00:45] <wagnerrp> no, mythtv
[00:45] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: sorry
[00:45] <Kaleo> davilla: thanks!
[00:46] <wagnerrp> heh
[00:46] <davilla> sry wagnerrp :)
[00:47] <Kaleo> wagnerrp, davilla: guys, it's really really late for me; I need to sleep
[00:47] <Kaleo> if you have a last comment/question for me, you have 1 minute :)
[00:48] <wagnerrp> 1AM? the night is still so young!
[00:48] <Kaleo> davilla: I'll figure out to have the wording right
[00:48] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: 2am
[00:48] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: and I slept only 2 hours last night...
[00:48] <davilla> np Kaleo, get some sleep.
[00:48] <Kaleo> davilla: cheers
[00:48] <wagnerrp> hmm... i never can remember if its 5 or 6... stupid DST
[00:48] <wagnerrp> night
[00:48] <Kaleo> wagnerrp: thanks
[01:02]  * davilla goes back to beating up arm boxes.
[01:09] <wagnerrp> Kaleo: just something of note, if youre using XBMC's metadata grabber system, youre also using their scripts, and accessing the same sites
[01:10] <wagnerrp> sites like themoviedb.org are licensed for non-commercial use only
[01:10] <wagnerrp> your stuff is open source, but you also plan to sell a product based off of it
[01:11] <wagnerrp> i dont know how that would line up with those kinds of sources, or if you would need to license it from some other provider such as Tribune
[01:11] <sladen> Kaleo: see you at 9am, sharp ;-)   Night night all
[01:11] <GeekShadow> oh channel for tuvalu
[01:11] <GeekShadow> :D
[01:11] <GeekShadow> is there iso yet to test ubuntu tv ?
[01:12] <L-----D> GeekShadow, I just about to ask the same question?
[01:12] <davilla> ahh, yes. we have our own keys for some of those sites.
[01:13] <wagnerrp> there is that too, at least TMDB and TTVDB both have specific keys intended for use with single applications
[01:15] <L-----D> so is there any code/release? or we still at the mockup stage
[01:15] <davilla> wagnerrp: did you see the new broadcom device, takes mpeg2, transcodes to h264 for streaming
[01:16] <wagnerrp> havent been paying much attention to broadcom since they pretty much abandoned linux support for the crystalhd
[01:16] <davilla> some sort of atsc -> h264 converter
[01:16] <wagnerrp> good waste of a bunch of Jarod Wilson's time
[01:17] <davilla> I'd say the linux community abandoned it :)
[01:17] <davilla> we could never get anyone else interested in working on it.
[01:18] <wagnerrp> jarod actually wrote the bulk of the linux driver under contract
[01:18] <wagnerrp> and between him and mark, they intended to maintain support in mythtv
[01:18] <davilla> wrong
[01:19] <davilla> broadcom did the bulk, jarod and I brought it up to current kernel and cleansed it.
[01:19] <wagnerrp> ah
[01:19] <wagnerrp> didnt realize you were involved in that
[01:20] <davilla> I'm the one that contacted broadcom about it and talked jarod into helping me.
[01:21] <davilla> we spent 4 months going round and round with broadcom legal :)
[01:24] <wagnerrp> is that the same chip the elgato people use? or something new?
[01:24] <wagnerrp> i know they have some hardware transcoder that fits in a USB stick
[01:24] <davilla> I really need to bring the osx driver/lib up to date with the current code.
[01:25] <davilla> nah, different thing, crystalhd only does decode.
[01:25] <wagnerrp> no, this new broadcom transcoder you just mentioned
[01:26] <davilla> humm, this is new.
[01:27] <davilla> not seen any product using it yet, just chipset specs.
[01:28] <davilla> maybe ces will show some vapor :) lol
[01:28] <wagnerrp> the elgato thing is almost three years old, turbo.264
[01:28] <wagnerrp> so definitely not the same thing
[01:29] <davilla> yea, that's what that thing was called, worked sort of ok... until i7's came along.
[01:30] <wagnerrp> because the i7 can do software transcodes faster than it? or because of the quicksync stuff?
[01:31] <davilla> yes, i7 and raw sw transcode
[01:32] <davilla> here's backstory on crystalhd http://wilsonet.com/?p=14
[01:33] <davilla> support for it went into ffmpeg a month or so ago. libav hates hw decoder and will not backport.
[01:34] <wagnerrp> hard to believe it was a year ago all that went down
[01:35] <wagnerrp> we still havent decided which to go with for our next sync
[01:36] <davilla> we sync again after Eden goes out, ffmpeg again. we have a few devs that are also ffmpeg devs so.. omygod we are actually getting patches into it.
[01:37] <davilla> still, it's a painful process
[01:37] <wagnerrp> ive never checked, do you run your own internal copy (as we do) or try to link up to whatever is on the system?
[01:38] <davilla> we can do either
[01:38] <wagnerrp> our ffmpeg guy was Janne, and hes been pretty much absent for the past year
[01:38] <davilla> --external-ffmpeg in configure switches from internal to external
[01:40] <L-----D> hey, is there any document about write a app/plugin for UTV?
[01:40] <davilla> of course, the external would have none of our patches, we carry 61 patches now. ouch.
[01:41] <davilla> when we sync again, that drops in half
[01:47] <wagnerrp> L-----D: i dont think theres much beyond what you see here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV) and what you can glean from reading the source itself
[01:47] <wagnerrp> weve got a big chunk of stuff we have to deal with each sync for proper playback of digital broadcasts, and because we still carry around NUVs
[01:48] <wagnerrp> plus theres the whole issue our build system is built around ffmpeg's
[01:48] <L-----D> using ffmpeg as video player's backend?
[01:49] <wagnerrp> L-----D: independent, discussion of mythtv and xbmc
[01:50] <wagnerrp> ubuntutv's player is currently gstreamer derived
[01:51] <L-----D> why should utv care about xbmc?
[01:51] <davilla> L-----D: guess where they get metadata from ?
[01:52] <wagnerrp> because they currently say it is based off them... http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/contributors
[01:53] <L-----D> xbmc's media library is not extendable, I really hope utv can write its own library and metadata providers
[01:53] <davilla> see step 2 -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing
[01:53] <L-----D> yes, i saw it
[01:53] <wagnerrp> you can very easily write new grabber scripts for XBMC
[01:53] <wagnerrp> well... very easily for anyone who knows their way around text parsing and xml
[01:55] <L-----D> well, I switched from XBMC to MediaPortal mostly because XBMC's library it not designed to be shared between TV sets
[01:55] <davilla> that's changed now, you can use mysql to share databases.
[01:55] <wagnerrp> thats a completely different issue from not being extendable
[01:56] <wagnerrp> havent you had a shared database for years now?
[01:56] <davilla> not seamless I have to admit.
[01:57] <davilla> but it's easy to do.
[01:57] <davilla> even atv2 users can do it :) and we have lots of those running a single db with multiple atv2s.
[01:59] <L-----D> davilla, last time I looked into XBMC (years ago) try to connect XBMC to my UPnP/DLNA media server without success
[01:59]  * tgm4883 sighs
[01:59] <davilla> that was years ago :) much different now
[01:59] <tgm4883> I hate that
[02:00] <tgm4883> "last time I looked into X (years ago)"
[02:00] <tgm4883> do people not realize that things change, and in the open source world, usually at a very fast pace?
[02:00] <wagnerrp> last time i looked into video playback on linux 10 years ago, Matrox was the way to go
[02:00] <davilla> hahaha
[02:01] <davilla> last time I looked 30 years ago, papertape was the best storage medium
[02:07] <wagnerrp> not sure why you would want to use upnp anyway when you could just mount over nfs and get the benefit of all that native metadata
[02:09] <L-----D> wagnerrp, because I want the same center server for both clients: XBMC XBox360 PS3 WMP
[02:09] <wagnerrp> so use upnp for the rest, and give xbmc direct access so it can use all of its fancy features
[02:10] <L-----D> well, if we can re-use most part of XBMC, we may just need a XBMC skin, what will be the difference between UTV and XBMC?
[02:11] <wagnerrp> right now, they are completely different applications
[02:11] <wagnerrp> the only thing being reused currently is an external scanner for metadata, that has to be run manually by the user
[02:12] <wagnerrp> its a temporary thing theyve been using for testing to get something to play around with in the UI
[02:13] <L-----D> wagnerrp, I've already wrote a java app act as UPnP Media Server also include media library and metadata grabber, that's why I want to connect UPnP to XBMC
[02:24] <L-----D> wagnerrp, what about unity 3d?
[02:29] <wagnerrp> honestly, i dont even know what that is, im not an ubuntu user
[02:29] <L-----D> O_O I though you're one of the ubuntu tv dev teams
[02:30] <davilla> run wagnerrp run fast and far :)
[02:30] <wagnerrp> no, as mentioned, davilla and i are here because xbmc and mythtv were listed as cooperating to make ubuntu tv happen
[02:31] <wagnerrp> being part of xbmc and mythtv, respectively, that was the first we had heard of such
[02:31] <L-----D> ;D
[02:31] <wagnerrp> they are temporarily using xbmc's metadata stuff
[02:31] <L-----D> yes, and a file system based library
[02:32] <wagnerrp> and mythtv... well i dont know what role we play, but some of the mythbuntu guys are around here working on it
[02:32] <L-----D> to provide dvb/atsc playback?
[02:32] <wagnerrp> that would be recording rather, if that
[02:33] <L-----D> davilla, is XBMC skin system changed is past days?
[02:33] <wagnerrp> myth's frontend is not suited for anything you may want to stuff inside a tv
[02:33] <davilla> if last time you looked was several years ago, yes.
[02:33] <L-----D> wagnerrp, I though UTV won't support recording directly from what I read on the mail list
[02:35] <L-----D> davilla, I was thought to write a media center my own, since MediaPortal V2 can't reach a stable release for years
[02:36] <davilla> confluence (horizontal) is the current native skin, touched for iOS.
[02:36] <L-----D> davilla, I've trid to clone the XMBC video player to provided UPnP connect to my library
[02:37] <L-----D> davilla, but it is too difficut for me, since I'm not a CPP developer
[02:37] <davilla> L-----D: the internal player (dvdplayer) is very complicated, it's much easier to use that API and do a new one. we do that for embedded boxes like sigma, cex41xx and raspberry-pi.
[02:38] <davilla> we also have a gstreamer based one but that's not public yet.
[02:39] <wagnerrp> you have support for sigmadesigns stuff? i didnt realize they ever opened their specs such that anyone could develop one
[02:39] <davilla> UPnP should work fine now.
[02:39] <davilla> wagnerrp: yes, it should go public in another month or so.
[02:39] <L-----D> davilla, last time I saw XMBC use GeeXbox upnp library, which discontinued
[02:40] <L-----D> davilla, do you have your own UPnP library now?
[02:40] <davilla> L-----D: not sure what's used, not my area of code.
[02:42] <L-----D> davilla, and access file share through UPnP won't enough, it also need access custom metadata from UPnP server
[02:42] <kieppie> nice work, guys!
[02:42] <davilla> wagnerrp: there's a pull/req pending for directfb support, that came from sigma work as it's directfb based.
[02:43] <kieppie> think I'll give it a stab alongside my XBMC system
[02:43] <wagnerrp> how do you resolve that sort of stuff with the rest of your UI? i thought it required everything be OpenGL
[02:44] <davilla> sigma renders video to separate video plane, gl/gles does not even see it. we added a bypass mode so gl/gles renderer pretends but really gets out of the way.
[02:45] <L-----D> davilla, what language can i use to dev a plugin now
[02:45] <davilla> so gl/gles is on top of video so we just punch a hole for video and any gl/gles overlays just work.
[02:46] <davilla> L-----D: python
[02:48] <davilla> we do same for most embedded as they also render video from hw decoders on separate video plane.
[09:46] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: Saviq: do we have any plan to try to keep qml files out of libunity2dprivate (like we did for the Scrollbar) ? there's still GnomeBackground in there
[09:59] <Saviq> nerochiaro, I don't think we can fix that yet
[10:00] <Saviq> 'cause the spread and the launcher uses that
[10:01] <nerochiaro> Saviq: ah, i think you're right
[10:02] <nerochiaro> Saviq: well, spread is really the issue
[10:02] <Saviq> yup
[10:09] <nerochiaro> Saviq: Kaleo: mergin from trunk there are a bunch of things that expect UnityCore to be version 5, how do I get it ?
[10:15] <tsdgeos> nerochiaro: sent you a mail gerry sent me with the instructions
[10:15] <nerochiaro> tsdgeos: thanks
[10:33] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: you removed from LauncherClient the only remaining piece of code it still had in it, and left only an empty class there in libunity2dprivate. Any specific reason for not removing the whole class entirely ?
[10:34] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: nope
[10:34] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: knock yourself out
[10:34] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: i'll add it to the TODO for when i finish the merge
[10:34] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: cheers
[10:35] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: was just curious about why you didn't just do it yourself. just lazy ? ;)
[10:36] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: rush and co
[10:37] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok, one more thing: the launcher in the shell branch is already up to date to the modifications you have done in rev 826 in trunk titled "[launcher][dash] Resolved some discrepancies in layout with design: - launcher width ..."
[10:37] <nerochiaro> ?
[10:40] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: I don't know
[10:40] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: 90% sure yes
[10:41] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: that was my guess too, but i don't know the rationale of these changes so i'm not sure how to check anyway
[10:41] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: i'll just go with assuming it's already done and then you can check in the end if it's allright
[10:41] <nerochiaro> will be easy to fix if it's not
[12:24] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: Saviq: does any of you know why after following the instructions to install the unity-team/staging ppa and all the new packages from it I still get this: https://pastebin.canonical.com/57929/ (note the path to the icon for the lens. should not be mentioning version 4 anymore, since it's not installed)
[12:55] <daker> is there any wiki page that explains how to use it on a TV ?
[13:03] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: sounds like a bug in the lens; check with the unity devs
[13:04] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: all lenses do that. they also missing the new v5 DBUS properties from what i can see
[13:06] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: there don't seem to be any of the usual suspects around in irc (kamstrup, didrocks), can you fetch someone live around there ?
[13:19] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: who did the API update?
[13:19] <Kaleo> (to v5)
[13:19] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: gerry it seems
[13:20] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: and approved by kamstrup, that's why i was looking for him (also he's the guy that works most on lenses AFAIK)
[13:22] <L-----D> hi, do I need to learn QML/Qt to develop app for UTV?
[13:22] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: no, the change in the unity core PAI
[13:22] <Kaleo> API
[13:22] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: not in Unity 2D
[13:22] <Kaleo> L-----D: there is no set plan for that yet
[13:22] <L-----D> or any app will do, just like lanuch app from Unity desktop
[13:22] <Kaleo> L-----D: but that's definitely a good option
[13:23] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: ah, i don't know, need to check
[13:23] <Kaleo> L-----D: desktop apps are not meant to run there
[13:23] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: didn't look into unity core at all
[13:23] <Kaleo> L-----D: their UIs are not suited for a TV
[13:23] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: that's the change
[13:23] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: why do you ask who made it ?
[13:24] <L-----D> Kaleo, yes, I know, but I have a java app which UI designed for 10" interface
[13:24] <L-----D> Kaleo, will it worked in UTV?
[13:24] <Kaleo> L-----D: for now, yes
[13:24] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: you are asking me to ping somebody
[13:24] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: better if I ping the right person
[13:25] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok, let me check then
[13:27] <L-----D> Kaleo, what about remote controller?
[13:28] <Kaleo> L-----D: what about it?
[13:28] <Kaleo> L-----D: we don't do anything special with them so far
[13:29] <Kaleo> L-----D: your UI should support remote control type of navigation
[13:30] <L-----D> Kaleo, I thought remote controller (like LIRC based) will be handled by UTV, like mapping to key event or something
[13:34] <L-----D> it not seems a function should be handled by independent application
[13:39] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: the changes on that stuff that breaks are by michal hruby, approved by kamstrup
[13:43] <Saviq> L-----D, remote controls are becoming standard HID devices
[13:43] <Saviq> L-----D, LIRC will only be useful for very weird remotes very soon
[13:44] <Saviq> most standard stuff (like the mce, for example) you just plug in and use right now
[13:44] <Saviq> it will just send XF86Play etc.
[13:48] <L-----D> Saviq, I use mce remote on windows, but I don't know it also works on ubuntu :o
[13:48] <Saviq> L-----D, of course it does
[13:48] <Saviq> just plug it in
[13:49] <Saviq> no LIRC required
[13:49] <Saviq> L-----D, you seem to have been trying a lot of stuff a long time ago
[13:49] <Saviq> time to update your experiences :)
[14:17] <MrChrisDruif> A Ubuntu TV PPA?
[14:18] <popey> is that a question ?
[14:19] <MrChrisDruif> Nope, not really. I just spotted the omg article
[14:19] <popey> cool
[14:19] <MrChrisDruif> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/how-to-install-ubuntu-tv-right-now-via-ppa/
[14:20] <dmj726> just saw that myself
[14:27] <Saviq> you don't need the GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR= though
[14:27] <MrChrisDruif> Nope?
[14:28] <sladen> rsalveti: kudos for the good read in your  http://rsalveti.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/ubuntu-tv-ui-at-pandaboard-and-next-steps/  post
[14:30] <Saviq> MrChrisDruif, it was only required when running uninstalled
[14:30] <Saviq> rsalveti, yeah, good stuff!
[14:32] <Saviq> and the command is wrong, it should be unity-2d-shell, not unity-shell-2d
[14:37] <MrChrisDruif> Saviq; "Mathieu Comandon" also noticed that
[14:38] <MrChrisDruif> About the wrong command
[14:41] <MrChrisDruif> Why is the unity-2d package updated and not a new package installed, like ubuntu-tv ?
[14:42] <MrChrisDruif> Creating a new session instead of replacing an other session?
[15:22] <hakermania> Hello. I haven't completely understood what Ubuntu TV is... Is it an OS that will run on TVs being sold by Canonical? Is it an OS for PCs that is especially designed for video viewing? Is it an OS for TVs that will be sold to large companies like LG? What is it? Thanks!
[15:28] <mhall119> Saviq: is there an 'official' PPA for the current Ubuntu TV?
[15:29] <mhall119> hakermania: it's Ubuntu designed to be embedded into TVs by large companies like LG
[15:29] <mhall119> hakermania: it's also a platform designed to be targetted by content providers like Netflix
[15:29] <mhall119> hakermania: but it's still something you can install on your desktop to play local media files on your TV
[15:30] <nerochiaro> mhall119: AFAIK there's no official ppa yet, but maybe this can help: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/how-to-install-ubuntu-tv-right-now-via-ppa/
[15:30] <hakermania> mhall119, thanks a lot :D
[15:30] <mhall119> nerochiaro: I saw that, I just don't want to link people to random PPAs, it breaks the whole security model of using repositories
[15:31] <nerochiaro> mhall119: you'll have to go from source then, i don't think there's any other alternative for now. again, AFAIK
[15:32] <mhall119> ok
[15:59] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: ok
[16:00] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok ?
[16:01] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: I'll make him be on IRC
[16:01] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: mhr3 on IRC
[16:01] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: please see if he can ping me when he comes in, i don't have joins displayed in irc
[16:02] <davilla> morning Kaleo, sleep well :)
[16:10] <Kaleo> davilla: ;)
[17:06] <mwcampbell> Will Ubuntu TV include a web browser?
[17:06] <mwcampbell> My guess is that web browsing would be cumbersome with a 10-foot interface.
[17:29] <popey> mwcampbell: it probably will actually
[17:31] <mhall119> mwcampbell: both, yes
[17:34] <mwcampbell> Any idea which browser is more likely to be used?
[17:34] <popey> no, we haven't evaluated that yet
[17:35] <popey> and it may not even be a full browser in the usual sense
[17:39] <mhall119> it would be nice if there was a browser designed to be used through a remote control
[17:39] <mhall119> like how we're seeing browsers designed for touch interfaces
[17:39] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: all the stuff from trunk now mereged into the shell branch. moving on to implementing what's missing according to MERGE-TODO. are you ok with the order things are listed in there ?
[17:40] <nerochiaro> as I plan to go through the list in that order
[17:44] <wagnerrp> popey: all the js and QT script files, i rather figured it WAS a browser
[17:51] <popey> haha
[19:38] <davilla> Kaleo: do you have any tech contacts a ces, one of our devs is there and wants to meet.
[19:40] <davilla> Kaleo: meet TheUni_ , TheUni_ Kaleo :)
[19:40] <TheUni_> hi Kaleo
[19:53] <mhall119> hi TheUni_
[19:55] <TheUni_> hi mhall119. are you working on ubuntu-tv ?
[19:56] <mcbaine1> hi there, i was just wondering if anyone know about any Ubuntu-tv videos online from CES yet ???
[19:58] <mcbaine1> plz specify any web-link you know of ....
[20:01] <mhall119> TheUni_: not directly, no, but I work for Canonical
[20:01] <mhall119> mcbaine1: yes, follow Ubuntu TV on Google+, I've been posting all the CES coverage there
[20:01] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/
[20:01] <mcbaine1> opening...
[20:02] <TheUni_> mhall119: ah, ok. I'm with XBMC at CES, was hoping to setup a quick tech meeting while I'm here
[20:04] <mwcampbell> Has anyone on the Ubuntu TV team given any thought to accessibility for users with disabilities? I'm thinking particularly of blind users.
[20:04] <mwcampbell> I suppose the accessibility of Ubuntu TV will depend to a large extent on the accessibility of Unity.
[20:04] <mwcampbell> Specifically Unity 2D, right?
[20:04] <mhall119> mwcampbell: I don't know, I'm not sure how the typical desktop accessibility features would work on a remote-controlled UI
[20:05] <mhall119> mwcampbell: yeah, which is Qt, which I've heard isn't great for a11y
[20:06] <mhall119> mcbaine1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT2btFsfj8Y is a video from CES
[20:06] <mcbaine1> mhall119, Interesting video on google+ ... but i didn't see any usage of youtube on the UbuntuTV shown ... why is that ??
[20:06] <mcbaine1> opening..
[20:06] <mhall119> mcbaine1: it's demo software, the youtube components may not be working
[20:07] <mcbaine1> oh dear... fail.
[20:07] <mwcampbell> mhall119: Last I checked, GTK had the best accessibility. But Qt is probably better than a completely custom UI.
[20:07] <mwcampbell> mhall119: As for a remote control UI, I don't yet have any direct experience with such things, but doesn't that normally involve moving through items in a menu, then selecting one?
[20:08] <mhall119> mcbaine1: you can probably  use the YouTube lens developed by someone else to accomplish the feature
[20:08] <mcbaine1> mmm you see youtube = online video , these days.
[20:08]  * tgm4883 sighs
[20:09] <mhall119> the YouTube lens can play it in Totem, no browser, no flash
[20:09]  * mcbaine1 drnks his milk.
[20:09] <tgm4883> mcbaine1, then I guess it's a good thing this is a tech demo at a non-user event
[20:11] <mcbaine1> personally, i don't see this concept progressing any more than what was shown and i therefore feel as ubuntu has missed the mark , the trisquel team will accomplish youtube on tv .
[20:12] <tgm4883> and so will the Ubuntu TV team
[20:12]  * mcbaine1 wonders when hell freezes over ..
[20:13] <tgm4883> popey, ping
[20:13] <mhall119> mcbaine1: again,a YouTube lens already exists that works
[20:14] <mhall119> whether or not that's what is shown in the demo I don't know
[20:14] <mhall119> so, in summary, YouTube on Ubuntu TV already exists
[20:28] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: The latest build from the instructions has a Youtube icon, but it doesn't function right now.
[20:29] <maxolasersquad> Youtube on TV has been solved many times over.
[20:29] <mwcampbell> Is there a written description of the way Ubuntu TV's remote control UI works, or is intended to work?
[20:30] <maxolasersquad> mcbaine1: It's pretty early to expect it to be feature rich.  The demo is just that, a demo ... of things to come ... not of exactly what will be released.
[20:30] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: have you tried installing the community-developed YouTube lens and scope?
[20:30] <maxolasersquad> No, do you have a link?
[20:30] <mhall119> mwcampbell: I don't think there is one yet, no
[20:31] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: ^^
[20:33] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/unity-youtube-lens-updates-with-browser-free-video-playback/
[20:35] <mhall119> it opens in totem though, rather than what it should for Ubuntu TV
[20:35] <mhall119> at least, I assume it will, maybe it'll "just work"
[20:36] <mhall119> vlc, not totem
[20:36] <tgm4883> mhall119, actually, I think it will just work
[20:36] <mhall119> but it wouldn't take much to open it full-screen in whatever Ubuntu TV uses for video playback
[20:37] <tgm4883> it should call the default video player
[20:37] <mhall119> tgm4883: if it goes by the mimetype it might
[20:37] <mhall119> tgm4883: since it's pulling from YouTube, nto local files, I'm not sure how it get's passed
[20:50] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: Unfortunately the ppa doesn't include precise.
[20:50] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: yeah, I think they're only targetting 11.10 right now
[20:50] <mhall119> for the demo anyway
[21:47] <popey> tgm4883: pong
[21:57] <mhall119> Saviq: Kaleo: are either of you on Facebook?  I have an Ubuntu TV page there now too
[22:31] <tgm4883> popey, so do we know anything about the actual TV functionality of Ubuntu-TV yet? (eg. DVR)
[22:31] <popey> we know that doesnt exist
[22:31] <popey> (the dvr bits)
[22:32] <tgm4883> Is there any Ubuntu TV documentation anywhere for developing for it?
[22:32] <tgm4883> or is it strictly read the code and figure it out
[22:33] <tgm4883> seems like it should be rather easy to use http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Services_API
[22:34] <popey> Kaleo / Saviq would probably be best to ask about that
[22:34] <tgm4883> popey, they are canonical?
[22:34] <popey> yes
[22:34] <tgm4883> i'll watch for them to be around then
[23:05] <Saviq> wagnerrp, that's not Qt script, it's QML
[23:05] <Saviq> mwcampbell, hey, trying to answer all your questions in order, sorry if they were answered already
[23:06] <Saviq> mwcampbell, a11y is one of the priorities for unity2d, which means ubuntu tv is actually already quite accessible
[23:06] <Saviq> and we could easily make it 100% accessible
[23:07] <mwcampbell> Saviq: cool, thanks
[23:08] <Saviq> mwcampbell, re remote - minimum for that _concept_ is 9 buttons
[23:08] <Saviq> usual navigation, enter, back and left, top, right bars
[23:09] <Saviq> youtube there is just a placeholder, remember it's all a _concept_
[23:09] <mhall119> Saviq: does the concept run standard Unity lenses currently?
[23:11] <Saviq> mhall119, I'm not on FB, I don't think Kaleo is, either
[23:11] <Saviq> tgm4883, no docs right now, since there's no product to develop for, no sdk plans, nothing like that yet
[23:11] <Saviq> it's just concept / demo code
[23:12] <Saviq> mhall119, it could, although they are disabled right now
[23:13] <Saviq> as the UI wasn't tested for stuff other than movies
[23:13] <Saviq> so it's just the custom / fake video lens right now
[23:13] <Saviq> but you could easily enable the music (apps doesn't really make sense) button in the launcher
[23:14] <Saviq> and have the music lens run
[23:14] <AlanBell> is it tied to 2d forever or could it be done in unity 3d on openGL capable hardware?
[23:14] <Saviq> AlanBell, it's running on OpenGL
[23:14] <Saviq> 2d is really a misnomer
[23:14] <AlanBell> oooh, ok
[23:15] <Saviq> AlanBell, on theverge you can see it running on a Revo
[23:15] <Saviq> which is Atom + ION
[23:15] <Saviq> it's quite snappy there
[23:15] <AlanBell> so the launcher buttons open different lenses
[23:16] <Saviq> AlanBell, that's the concept right now - no bottom lens bar since it would be difficult to get there via keyboard navigation
[23:16] <AlanBell> that makes a heap more sense than desktop unity launcher to be honest
[23:16] <Saviq> that depends
[23:16] <Saviq> if you have something like 6 lenses
[23:16] <AlanBell> really don't like the way it mixes up stuff you have running and stuff that isn't running but is pinned
[23:16] <Saviq> then half of your launcher will be used by lens buttons
[23:17] <Saviq> AlanBell, that's because it isn't a task bar, but that's a discussion for #ayatana, really
[23:17] <AlanBell> yeah, I know
[23:17] <Saviq> mhall119, re youtube lens - you could also easily hook up the youtube button to the youtube lens
[23:18] <Saviq> and as long as it will give a stream url with correct mime type, it should play inside Ubuntu TV
[23:18] <Saviq> no disk buffering yet, though