[00:28] <gordonjcp> what are people using for mail in Ubuntu?
[00:30] <gordonjcp> or, to put it another way, who on earth thought Thunderbird was a good choice?
[00:31] <gordonjcp> how do you stop that annoying orange flashing thing in the status bar?
[00:33] <gordonjcp> is there a way to stop Unity maximising every bloody window every chance it gets?
[00:41] <KrisDouglas> Im using thunderbird and want to die more each day
[00:41] <KrisDouglas> It used to be ok...
[00:42] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp: maximising, ewww.... there's a tweak on ubuntu geek for it i think
[03:00] <ball> What's this Ubuntu TV thing all about then?
[03:01] <KrisDouglas> I think it's like appleTV, Google TV, TiVO, etc...
[03:01] <KrisDouglas> like a media centre?
[03:10] <hamitron> waste of bandwidth then? ;)
[03:32] <ball> I have to go
[04:21] <shauno> that's a bit harsh hamitron .. I love my xbmc
[04:21] <shauno> hm, timestamp fail + good lord it's 4am already
[04:21] <hamitron> hehe, I was asking ;)
[04:23] <shauno> loosely related, I played around with netflix a bit more.  quite disappointed so far, and not just the selection
[04:23] <shauno> that bit I expect to improve over time, but their ipad app is terrible, which was going to be my main use for it
[08:07] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:13] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:15] <czajkowski> AlanBell: hows you
[08:16] <AlanBell> good thanks
[08:18] <popey> Morning all
[08:22] <daubers> Morning
[08:23] <AlanBell> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ces/9002390/CES-2012-Linux-Ubuntu-TV-launched-by-British-firm-Canonical.html mainstream coverage
[08:28] <christel> morning beauties
[08:32] <mattt> morning morning
[08:33] <gord> morning beasties
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> hellos
[08:33] <daubers> AlanBell: But will it be enough to push up desktop take up?
[08:36] <AlanBell> who knows, but mainstream coverage is good
[08:37] <daubers> :)
[09:09] <danfish> morning
[09:09] <danfish> gonna download the tv code and try to get it to run on the revo
[09:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu LTS - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/10/xubuntu-kubuntu-and-edubuntu-lts/
[09:12] <czajkowski> danfish: ello ello
[09:18] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:18] <danfish> how's the back czajkowski?
[09:19] <czajkowski> little bit sore today tbh
[09:20] <daubers> czajkowski: Able to move around yet? Or still stuck lying down?
[09:27]  * oimon has a cold on top of a cold
[09:27] <oimon> hopefully cold 1.0 will be uninstalled soon
[09:41] <DJones> Hi AdvoWork
[09:44] <czajkowski> daubers: I can move around, just really slowly. and no bending or lifting
[09:46] <AdvoWork> Hi DJones
[09:48] <DJones> AdvoWork: I'm trying to remember the model number for the asus laptop, but just can't get it to spring to mind, all I can remember is that its red, i3, 500Gb drive and intel graphics
[09:52] <AdvoWork> DJones, lol, no worries, I cna wait a while, its just difficult finding supported models that you can actually buy, I think most people(or some atleast) would give up at this stage
[09:56] <DJones> I got a HPG72 which has worked great apart from a the screen is always dimmed at boot
[09:57] <DJones> I would suspect that most machines in the sub £350 price range will come with Intel graphics which while not brilliant for game play, (from my experience of INtel HDA) have been pretty good
[10:02] <daubers> czajkowski: Ah, you'll be fine soon enough
[10:03] <czajkowski> yup indeed
[10:05] <gordonjcp> DJones: or indeed, "not brilliant"
[10:05] <gordonjcp> at all
[10:06] <oimon> ah, kernel 3.2 added to 12.04...time to start testing it
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> oimon: it's been in there for a while
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> oimon: maybe they were RCs though
[10:14] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
[10:20] <daubers> o/
[10:34] <danfish> hmm, at what time did I think it sensible to upgrade the revo (HTPC) to precise :/
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> Why not
[10:35] <popey> should be fine
[10:35] <popey> unless you have some extra stuff like ppa builds of xbmc or something?
[10:39] <danfish> popey: I *did* have xbmc on it but new TV has DNLA - may try and buld ubuntu tv on it
[10:40]  * daubers craves biscuits
[10:40] <popey> ubuntu tv has less functionality right now than xbmc
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> but it's PURPLE
[10:43] <popey> the concept is aubergine :p
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> Purple, exactly.
[10:44] <popey> your eyes are broken ☺
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: No, I'm of the opinion that only 5-6 colours exist, and others are just bad remixes :)
[10:45] <nigelb> So, I saw Windows 8 today.
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> nigelb: Poor you
[10:45] <nigelb> I think Microsoft has woken up.
[10:45] <nigelb> The UX was actually pretty good.
[10:45] <nigelb> And built on html, css, and js (I think)
[10:47] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:48] <popey> hello
[10:48] <danfish> o/ brobostigon
[10:48] <brobostigon> hello popey and danfish o/
[10:48] <nigelb> popey: Is it your team that does the TV stuff?
[10:49] <popey> I am part of the team that does it, yes.
[10:49] <nigelb> Ah, cool :)
[10:49] <popey> amongst other things ☺
[10:50] <awilkins> Anyone got a link for that Unity Launcher dev thing?
[10:50] <popey> can you be more specific?
[10:51] <awilkins> There was a development tuning set of sources for the Unity launcher linked on an Ubuntu blog recently
[10:52] <awilkins> Tuning parameters like hide time, etc
[10:52] <awilkins> I was wondering if it supported hide timeout based purely on a lack of mouseover events for X ms
[10:53] <popey> http://design.canonical.com/2012/01/launcher-reveal-prototype/
[10:54] <awilkins> Use case : I use Synergy. My other screen is to the left of my Ubuntu workstation. When the mouse pointer crosses over to the other screen, the launcher unhides. When the mouse pointer crosses back, acceleration often causes the pointer to cross into the Ubuntu screen without actually entering the launcher. This deprives the launcher of a "mouse leaves" event, which means it doesn't hide.
[10:54] <awilkins> In order to make it hide you then have to move the mouse over it, or doubletap the Super key
[10:55] <bigcalm> awilkins: do you find that synergy doesn't transmit all keys? eg shift+3
[10:55] <Seeker`> popey: what do you do in the team?
[10:55] <bigcalm> Prods people in new directions?
[10:56] <awilkins> bigcalm: I have memories of being annoyed by it, but I've not noticed being really annoyed by it recently, so I guess the builds I'm using have solved the issues
[10:56] <oimon> Asus and Nvidia prepare £160 quad-core tablet...oooh
[10:56] <bigcalm> Oh
[10:56] <awilkins> bigcalm: One thing that comes to mind is that Synergy can fail to transmit one of the shift keys to RDP sessions you have open in a client machine
[10:56] <bigcalm> awilkins: I just use whatever comes out of the software centre
[10:57] <awilkins> bigcalm: My client is Windows so I'm on the latest Synergy2 build from SF
[10:57] <bigcalm> Ah
[10:57] <popey> Seeker`: I'm an Engineering Manager, I have guys working on custom builds and packages for bespoke hardware
[10:57] <bigcalm> My client is 10.10
[10:57] <awilkins> bigcalm: Server is synergy via QuickSynergy on Ubuntu
[10:57] <bigcalm> Using QuickSynergy here as well. A GUI that is useful!
[10:58] <popey> oimon: the transformer prime is a quad-and-a-half tablet already
[10:58] <oimon> popey: i was more excited at the price :D
[10:59] <popey> well, yes
[11:00]  * oimon doesn't need another tablet anyway
[11:05] <davmor2> morning all
[11:05] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod how's you?
[11:06] <czajkowski> not to bad my dear, and you?
[11:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: I'm good I'm just waiting for you to get better so I can prod the living daylights out of you ;)
[11:11] <oimon> s/prod/????
[11:12] <czajkowski> davmor2: hah
[11:13] <christel> haha
[11:14] <christel> such loove
[11:16] <czajkowski> christel: darling!
[11:17] <christel> hellooo prettyface
[11:17] <Seeker`> o/
[11:19] <czajkowski> christel: how are you this lovely morning
[11:24] <davmor2> christel: Hey I'm behaving I'm at least letting czajkowski get bet before the torrent of abuse issues forth :D
[11:25] <czajkowski> such a kinda gentleman is davmor2
[11:25] <directhex> woo, fosdem
[11:25] <czajkowski> WHOOO
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> directhex: already?
[11:26] <directhex> MartijnVdS, my talk is confirmed, so woo
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> directhex: what will you be talking about?
[11:27] <directhex> MartijnVdS, debian packaging info for .net upstreams
[11:27] <Laney> dear failers, stop failing, ta
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> Laney: that's like "Dear water, please stop being wet."
[11:28] <czajkowski> directhex: no cats please this time!
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you're going to fosdem too?
[11:29] <czajkowski> yup
[11:29] <directhex> czajkowski, i've got 2 cats left over from last year. and a hedgehog. that's it.
[11:29] <christel> czajkowski: i am decent! thyself? :)
[11:29] <czajkowski> taking part in a panel discussion on locos/ambassadors
[11:30] <czajkowski> christel: nay bad darling
[11:30] <czajkowski> mothership is invading on friday for the day
[11:30] <czajkowski> over and back
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> directhex: http://i.imgur.com/UvFTC.jpg
[11:30] <directhex> ._.
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> directhex: it's a "quokka"
[11:32] <davmor2> christel: That is quite obviously a lie, you may be well, but decent isn't a term I've heard in conjunction with you before :D
[11:36] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: So Qt Quokka
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: ?
[11:38] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: the next release :)
[11:40] <bigcalm> Do I buy a 120gb ssd for 126 quid (1.05 per gb) or 60gb for 71 quid (1.18 per gb)?
[11:41] <Seeker`> bigcalm: do you need 120gb?
[11:42] <bigcalm> Seeker`: for the laptop to dual boot 12.04 and win7
[11:42] <Seeker`> d you need 120gb?
[11:42] <bigcalm> 60gb would still do I guess
[11:42] <davmor2> bigcalm: 60gb all day long it must be way better if it's more expensive right :D
[11:42] <Seeker`> if you need 120gb, get 120gb
[11:42] <directhex> you need 120GB.
[11:42] <Seeker`> if you don't, get 50gb
[11:42] <directhex> 120GB is barely enough for windows & a few games, let alone dual boot
[11:43] <bigcalm> directhex: good point. The laptop is the only one with game os on it
[11:43] <davmor2> bigcalm: in all seriousness if you plan on installing anything on Ubuntu or Windows get the 120 gb
[11:44] <directhex> a modern game can easily be >20GB
[11:44] <DJones> Go for one of these & do a USB install http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/09/swiss_penknife_ssd/ Its only $2,000 ish
[11:46] <bigcalm> Happy with the 60gb OCZ Vertex in my workstation, so looking at the 120gb OCZ Agility for the laptop. My 1st thought that I would be throwing good money at a terrible laptop, but I will take the drive out for whatever comes after it
[11:49] <popey> \o/ GameOS
[11:52] <Oli> bigcalm: Neither - you spend £1.41/gig on a OCZ Revodrive (120GB)
[11:52] <Oli> (assuming you have a PCI-E for it to go in)
[11:52] <bigcalm> Oli: it's going in my laptop
[11:52] <bigcalm> So, no
[11:53] <davmor2> popey: new challenge for you and gord,  The Ubuntu Games Console,   UGamer :D  Oh and it needs more than minecraft ;)
[11:53] <Oli> bigcalm: That's a shame because they're awesome. You could always buy it and switch it for the SSD in your workstation...
[11:55] <gordonjcp> popey: are there images for Ubuntu TV available?
[11:56] <Oli> The problem with small laptop drives though (obviously) is you run out of space quickly. Unless you've got two HD slots, there's no opportunity for a slow mechanical drive as you have in a desktop.
[11:57] <shauno> that's why I yanked my dvdr and put spinning rust in its place
[11:58] <Oli> Yeah that's a good option if the laptop if popular enough to have somebody making HD-caddy bay replacements
[11:58] <shauno> that's the bit that strikes me as odd.  are the drives themselves not a relatively standard shape?
[12:00] <Oli> AFAIK, no
[12:00] <Oli> They're similar (they're all designed around a CD) but I think there's quite a bit of variance. Could be completely wrong.
[12:00] <shauno> well that I didn't know  (my last PC-based laptop ran win31)
[12:01] <oimon> how can i get byobu to show me the name of the machines i'm connected to in different sessions?
[12:01] <oimon> without manually renaming with F8
[12:01] <directhex> there's a "standard" shape for laptop drives, but that standard is inly implemented by small fry manufacturers on their biggest laptops
[12:01] <directhex> it's how you put slim drives in ITX cases
[12:03] <popey> gordonjcp: not yet
[12:04] <gordonjcp> popey: I'm quite keen to give it a shot, what are the likely requirements?
[12:04] <bigcalm> Pay day and the 1st thing I do is but an SSD. Yay for geekyness
[12:06] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: runs on an Atom apparently
[12:12] <gordonjcp> I think I need a new PC and a new monitor
[12:12] <oimon> popey: you use byobu don't you?
[12:12] <gordonjcp> the bulk of the RFI around here seems to come from the video cable
[12:14] <popey> gordonjcp: i have it running on an acer revo
[12:14] <awilkins> The sources are available though
[12:14] <popey> we also have it built to run on a pandboard
[12:14] <awilkins> What's the backend supplying the EPG?
[12:14] <popey> there isnt yet
[12:18] <popey> oimon: i do
[12:19] <oimon> popey: how do you get the session name to report the hostname of the machine you are logged into?
[12:19] <davmor2> popey: are you using the new and improved tmux byobu?
[12:19] <oimon> byobu just says ssh
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> Can anyone confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/913037 ?
[12:19] <popey> CTRL+A, A
[12:19] <popey> to set window title
[12:19] <oimon> ok, so manually
[12:19] <popey> davmor2: not on my LTS server, but am on my laptop
[12:20] <popey> yeah
[12:20] <oimon> sad face :(
[12:20] <davmor2> popey: what do you think to it?
[12:20] <popey> not used it enough to judge
[12:21] <davmor2> popey: fair enough
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> oimon: maybe the standard "screen" way works
[12:21] <oimon> MartijnVdS: my terminal windows are correctly named after ssh'ing in
[12:22] <popey> alan@mbp:~$ google
[12:22] <popey> The program 'google' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
[12:22] <popey> sudo apt-get install googlecl
[12:22] <popey> made me smile
[12:22] <popey> hehehe
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> oimon: yes, so the titles get set with character sequence on the remote end but not locally?
[12:23] <oimon> MartijnVdS: i mean that gnome-terminal displays title, but byobu session name remains unchanged unless i manually change with F8
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> oimon: ah.. I have no idea then
[12:24] <popey> golly lunch!
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> ask Dustin :)
[12:24] <popey> ttfn
[12:24] <oimon> no, it doesn't seem to be a great solution like everyone is saying
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: \o
[12:24] <oimon> enjoy the ghoulash
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> Enjoy the gulag? What?
[12:29] <oimon> "AllGo Systems and Canonical to Offer Genivi Compliant Linux Automotive Infotainment Solution and Cloud Services to Cars"
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Car Stereo?
[12:29] <oimon> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120109005827/en/AllGo-Systems-Canonical-Offer-Genivi-Compliant-Linux
[12:29] <oimon> Together the solution provides advanced features for next generation connected car platforms like personal cloud services based on Ubuntu One, smartphone and tablet Integration in the car and location-based services. The solution, which enables automotive OEMs and tier-one suppliers to build feature-rich IVI Systems and applications, will be showcased during CES 2012 at Canonical's Ubuntu stand at South Hall 4 Upper Level #35379 and AllGo suite #2
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> Marketese detected.
[12:36] <awilkins> Why do I have this mental image of Chef Skinner in Ratatouille creating a new line of Chef Gusteau Burritos...
[13:02]  * popey returns from lunch
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> HE SURVIVED
[13:09]  * danfish eats 'pot luck pie' ie leftovers from sunday shoved under a pastry topping
[13:10] <awilkins> Mmm, pie
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> Piiiiiiie
[13:11] <danfish> 2012 is the official year of the pie....somewhere
[13:12] <christel> mmpie.
[13:13] <shauno> pie should sponsor the olympics.  it'd make more sense than McD's, and make for some entertaining billboards
[13:15] <danfish> homemade pie is good - might well be making more pie this year (though at 1 today, I've already beaten my 2011 number)
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> 5-a-day
[13:20] <awilkins> Pies?
[13:21] <awilkins> Mince pie, meat pie... some kind of breakfast pie with eggs and bacon
[13:21] <awilkins> Homity pie for the veggies
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> onion, cheese, egg pie \o/
[13:22] <awilkins> Hmm, what should be the 5th pie of the day
[13:23] <danfish> chocolate, banana and whisky :)
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> Guinness and pork
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> pie
[13:24] <christel> AlanBell: when/wheres the next Happy Hour
[13:26] <AlanBell> now that is an exceptionally good question
[13:26] <shauno> I'm trying to figure out if the cost of the olympics could have bought every person in the UK 365 pies instead.  Today is an exceptionally slow day.
[13:27] <shauno> (and I'm not sure if they still have 50pence meat & tatty pies like when I were a lad)
[13:27] <christel> AlanBell: i am thinking reading!
[13:27] <christel> soon
[13:27] <christel> then i can combine it with getting a piece of Dave2's herman!
[13:27] <AlanBell> reading is good
[13:27] <AlanBell> oooh a herman, I had one of those
[13:27] <christel> (which i shall in turn share with you!)
[13:27] <christel> (when he grows up)
[13:27] <Laney> weird
[13:28] <Laney> TFL just emailed me to remind me to turn off my engine
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> Laney: you should!
[13:28] <Laney> I don't have an engine!
[13:28] <AlanBell> Dave2: when is the sharing date of the herman?
[13:28] <christel> herman will be ready for dividing on sunday, so after sunday!
[13:28] <Dave2> AlanBell: Sunday is when it's divided, but it seems to survive being frozen
[13:28] <christel> Dave2: what's a good pub?
[13:28] <AlanBell> interesting, I didn't know that
[13:28] <Dave2> At least, I gave a frozen one to someone else who is growing his own Herman
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> It's just a special sourdough culture.. those can survive a LOT :)
[13:29] <JGJones> Bah...all this pie and I thought you was talking about raspberry pi.
[13:29] <awilkins> shauno : Venes
[13:29] <christel> MartijnVdS: yesyes, but like ubuntu it's all about the sharing!
[13:29] <christel> of the yeasty bacteria..
[13:29] <christel> ok that just went weird
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> christel: Sure, but the freezing! :)
[13:29] <AlanBell> reading is good for daubers too I think
[13:30] <christel> ah yes, daubers is a readingite isn't he
[13:30] <christel> and it's close enough for us to attend
[13:30] <christel> \o/
[13:30] <danfish> what's the/a herman?
[13:30] <Dave2> christel: good question. I think there are basically three pubs I go to in Reading. There's zerodegrees, which is where people go from work, there's the hobgoblin which is tiny, and there's the back of beyond which is a wetherspoon's.
[13:30] <Dave2> (And where the LUG's held)
[13:30] <awilkins> shauno, Olympic venues, and regeneration of East End, £9.345 B, staging games £2B
[13:30] <christel> danfish: it's a german friendship cake, well, it's a sourdough you cultivate and grow, then you bake a cake from one part and give three parts away to friends tod o the same
[13:30] <christel> it's basically an edible chain letter
[13:30] <awilkins> shauno, Population of UK 62M
[13:30]  * christel nods
[13:30] <danfish> inte
[13:30] <danfish> interesting
[13:31] <christel> (though, i don't think it comes with any bad luck if you fail)
[13:31] <Dave2> It's a chain letter that's tasty
[13:31] <Dave2> and that you can freeze and use later.
[13:31] <JGJones> And does actually have a reward at end.
[13:31] <christel> yes!
[13:31] <christel> we should mass produce AlanBell, and you could ship a herman with every cd!
[13:32] <christel> er, not mass produce AlanBells, that'd be... awkward
[13:32] <awilkins> shauno, So that's £177 each, so it could buy us all a CHEAP pie for a year
[13:32] <Dave2> I was thinking
[13:32]  * AlanBell does not want to be mass produced
[13:32] <shauno> yeah, that's not far off the 50 pence pies we used to get
[13:32] <awilkins> But one suspects that the budget will overrun (these things do)
[13:32] <JGJones> christel - I would like an AlanBell. A butler around the place would be nice.
[13:32] <awilkins> So if we assume £1 a pie
[13:33] <awilkins> We could plot the budget overrun by the date in the year when the Olympic budget would stop buying everyone in the UK a pie
[13:33] <christel> JGJones: they take so much longer to make and train than the hermans though!
[13:33] <awilkins> Currently June 26th
[13:33] <shauno> sounds like a fun way to put everything into piespective
[13:34] <shauno> it's much more difficult to visualise costs when they run into billions.  but if you start taking away people's pies, they know what's up
[13:34] <Dave2> Pies from the pie shop in Reading are £3. I'd want to be bought those rather than pies that cost £1.
[13:35] <awilkins> Pork Farms Medium Pork Pie, Tesco, £0.85
[13:35] <shauno> see, that's what I get for growing up up north.  I forget how silly some of your prices are
[13:35] <oimon> eww
[13:36] <christel> i once had an amazing pie with ade
[13:36] <christel> it was at some odd pie place in birmingham in which the pie was served in cute little cardboard boxes
[13:36] <Dave2> Pies from the Reading pie shop are really nice though.
[13:37] <christel> (so that you could later give them away to very small homeless people to sleep in)
[13:37] <awilkins> Tesco Quiche, £1
[13:38] <awilkins> Or a deli counter cornish pasty
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> cornish pasty hmmmm
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> too bad you can't get them here (or good ones, anyway)
[13:39]  * daubers waits for a program to crash again
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> we get http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahmacun though
[13:39] <christel> daubers: are you up for reading happy hour?
[13:40] <shauno> that was one really odd thing I found in the states.  it turns out there's a cornish diaspora in northern michigan, so you could actually get proper pasties!
[13:40] <daubers> christel: Oooh, when?
[13:40] <christel> daubers: well, how about the next one? so january! ;)
[13:40] <daubers> (also whoever chose the hobgoblin needs a slap)
[13:40] <christel> the hobgoblin is a bit small isnt it?
[13:40] <daubers> christel: Umm.... can't really do this month as I'm a) broke and b) not here a lot :)
[13:40] <christel> (alanbell would love some better suggestions)
[13:41] <christel> aww! ok, february then?!
[13:41] <daubers> February is cool :)
[13:41] <christel> AlanBell: ok, how about reading february and a farnham pubcrawl when popey returns to england?
[13:41] <daubers> There's the place that SCLug meet, it's a spoons though, or there's the place where the geek night people meet which is near the spoons
[13:42]  * christel nods
[13:42] <shauno> I really should try to get the UK more often.  ryanair isn't really *that* bad (for <1hr flights)
[13:43] <Laney> headphones help
[13:44] <christel> shauno: yes! come over for all the happy hours
[13:44] <shauno> my ears don't pop easily, so noise is one problem I don't have on flights
[13:45] <Laney> not even the noise of all the selling?
[13:45] <shauno> everything just sounds like they're having a part nextdoor
[13:48] <oimon> the last time i flew ryanair, i was delayed > 8 hours
[13:48] <oimon> glasgow -> stanstead
[13:49] <shauno> that's actually one problem I haven't run into.  they hate being late, because it eats into their margins
[13:50] <oimon> my mate got rather wasted on beer because he sat in the bar for most of the wait. there's not much to do at prestwick
[13:57] <shauno> there's not much to do at many airports.  they're not exactly famous for their entertainment value
[13:58] <shauno> my local airport is essentially a bar in a field.  it was a little disturbing watching the security guy go back to pulling pints once everyone was in
[14:00] <ikonia> are there any uk pay as you go mobile providers that don't wipe your credit off if you don't use it
[14:00] <Dave2> Do any of them wipe your credit off?
[14:01] <ikonia> I'm considering attatching a mobile phone to a machine I have to send me some SMS alerts, however I don't think it will use £10 in a year, most UK providers tend to require you to put $X X ammount on your phone each month
[14:01] <Dave2> Surely no providers require you to make monthly topups?
[14:01] <ikonia> some of the small print I'm reading suggests you do
[14:01] <ikonia> I didn't think so either.
[14:01] <Dave2> I was on O2 PAYG for many years and only topped up monthly at the end
[14:01] <Dave2> And that was just to get the 500MB of data
[14:02] <ikonia> looking into this more, good that you seem surprised by this too
[14:03] <Dave2> I would usually go months between topups on O2
[14:03] <ikonia> well, I'm expecting to not top this up in a year
[14:05] <jpds> ikonia: giffgaff.com
[14:05] <ikonia> this looks interesting thanks
[14:05] <oimon> ikonia: why SMS alerts?
[14:05] <ikonia> oimon: simple alert that I can get anywhere
[14:05] <ikonia> why not sms alerts ?
[14:05] <gordonjcp> ikonia: Orange don't...
[14:06] <shauno> if I'm reading O2's correctly, you don't have to top up, but you do need to use your phone
[14:06] <ikonia> gordonjcp: yeah, I'm just reading, you have to make a call or sms in 9 months or they close the account
[14:06] <ikonia> shauno: yes, just found some of the more detailed terms
[14:06] <oimon> depends if u have a smartphone i guess, otherwise SMS can be replaced by email or tweet, or you can use a email->SMS service
[14:06] <shauno> "7.1 If you do not make or receive a chargeable call at least once in any 6 month period your Mobile Phone will be disconnected and you will lose any remaining credits balance on your Account." is O2's
[14:06] <ikonia> so I guess a cron job to send a test text once in 6 months would work
[14:08] <oimon> is the machine network-connected?
[14:08] <ikonia> yes
[14:08] <oimon> then maybe email->SMS gateway is a better solution
[14:08] <shauno> sms alerts can be handy even with a network.  it's nice to have something out-of-band
[14:08] <oimon> there are free-to-use ones out there apparently
[14:09] <shauno> eg, "help, my network has disappeared" isn't going to reach you until it's fixed
[14:09] <oimon> send email, receive SMS
[14:09] <ikonia> not great as one of the things I want to check is the connection, if the connection goes down I'll lose the ability to email
[14:09] <ikonia> if that was the case I'd just email
[14:09] <oimon> shauno: nor will "mobile phone out of credit, unplugged, hung"
[14:09] <ikonia> but for the sake of a £10 phone, and £10 top up, it seemed a useful addition to email
[14:10] <daubers> FAIL DAMMIT!
[14:10] <ikonia> jpds: giffgaf don't seem to do pay as you go, just £150 per month
[14:10] <daubers> stupid random failure events
[14:11] <jpds> ikonia: No, they do pay-as-you-go.
[14:11] <ikonia> thanks chaps, just need to research a gsm compatible hand set, most nokias seem fine
[14:11] <gordonjcp> ikonia: that's not too bad surely?
[14:11] <gordonjcp> ikonia: once a month send a single text "Hi your monitoring system hasn't died"
[14:12] <ikonia> gordonjcp yup, seems a simple solution, once every two months send a 4p text saying "test"
[14:13] <shauno> pick a few close friends/family and get it to remind you of their birthdays.  get your 4 pence worth ;)
[14:13] <ikonia> ha ha, good idea
[14:13] <ikonia> make my 4p work for me
[14:13] <AlanBell> ikonia: you can put the sim card in a USB dongle
[14:13] <ikonia> AlanBell: yes, I was looking at that from 3 - they have good supported dongles
[14:13] <oimon> google tv announcing a few partners @ CES this year
[14:13] <Dave2> just try to avoid the birthday paradox
[14:14] <gordonjcp> ikonia: "HONK HONK HONK THIS IS THE EVERYTHING'S OKAY ALARM HONK HONK HONK"
[14:14] <ikonia> AlanBell: have you done this before, can you treat the usb stick as a gsm modem (basically)
[14:14] <ikonia> gordonjcp: I'll use that quote, thank you
[14:14] <jpds> ikonia: http://giffgaff.com/index/pricing
[14:15] <ikonia> that's quite good, if I don't top up, I lose my free giffgaff calls....gutted ;)
[14:15] <shauno> gordonjcp, they were actually doing that at newcastle airport when I was there each week.  they kept sounding the fire alarm, a "everyone out the terminal please" announcement, and then a "thanks for putting up with our tests, please let us know if you couldn't hear it" to make you sit back down
[14:15] <AlanBell> ikonia: yes, you can treat it like a GSM modem, but I think SMS is a slightly non-modemish conversation with the dongle
[14:15] <ikonia> no real loss for me teir
[14:15] <ikonia> their
[14:15] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: depends on the mode you put it into
[14:15] <gordonjcp> you just send an AT command to send an SMS
[14:16] <gordonjcp> some SMSes need it to be encoded a slightly funny way
[14:16] <ikonia> AlanBell: ever actually done this ?
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: "funny"
[14:16] <ikonia> I did it with an old nokia years ago, but the dongle would be a cleaner solution
[14:16] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: quite right, it is modemish, but it isn't a call type connection
[14:16] <AlanBell> ikonia: yes, a while back
[14:17] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: no, it's just a one-shot command
[14:17] <ikonia> AlanBell: silly AlanBell you've just become a Q+A session when I try this ;)
[14:17] <shauno> http://designbuildtestrepeat.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/huawei-e220-on-linux-for-sms/    works for my dongle
[14:17] <shauno> (vastly aided by it being the exact same dongle he's talking about)
[14:18] <AlanBell> ikonia: http://www.option.com/en/support/faq/article/how-to-send-an-sms-with-at-commands/
[14:18] <AlanBell> I think there was a python based gui client someone knocked together
[14:19] <ikonia> thanks
[14:19] <ikonia> oooh no guis, I'll have to script it, although it can't be that hard, I've used at commands before
[14:21] <popey> gnokki
[14:21] <popey> ?
[14:21] <popey> oh, it was renamed gammu wasnt it?
[14:22] <AlanBell> yeah, I was thinking there might be a nice python library behind the GUI
[14:22] <oimon> usb-creator is producing usb sticks which don't boot :(
[14:22] <popey> what ISO?
[14:22] <oimon> precise alpha 1
[14:23] <popey> did you erase it first?
[14:23] <ikonia> gnokii got renamed ???
[14:23] <oimon> yes..was that bad?
[14:23] <ikonia> I'm clearly out of the loop
[14:23] <popey> well gnokii was not nokia specific
[14:23] <popey> so nokii in the name makes no sense
[14:23] <ikonia> I always thought it was meant for nokia only
[14:24] <ikonia> I didn't really it was not nokia specific
[14:24] <popey> it was for nokia originally, then they added more phones
[14:24] <AlanBell> that isn't the gui I was thinking of
[14:24] <ikonia> the phones it listed as supported all used to be nokia, so called gnokii and supporting nokia phones I assumed it was nokia
[14:24] <ikonia> ahhh, so they have added more
[14:24] <ikonia> the backend for gnokii used to be good
[14:24] <ikonia> easy and simple to use
[14:25] <ikonia> is it a waste to buy an iphone 4s to act as an sms sender :)
[14:25] <popey> yes, send it to me and I'll send you a 'better' phone
[14:26] <ikonia> ha
[14:26] <ikonia> where can I get the usb dongles without the sim card
[14:26] <ikonia> as people like 3 are only selling them with mobile broadband sim cards
[14:26] <DJones> ikonia: I'm sure I've got a nokia 3210 I can send in a direct swap
[14:26] <oimon> ikonia: is this for home project or work ?
[14:26] <ikonia> seems a waste to buy them
[14:26] <ikonia> home project
[14:26] <oimon> ah
[14:26] <oimon> thats ok then
[14:26] <ikonia> if it was work it would be a proper solution rather than me messing around trying to find some interesting tricks
[14:26] <oimon> yep
[14:26] <popey> i have a 3 dongle you can have
[14:27] <ikonia> linux support ?
[14:27] <ikonia> (as in the device)
[14:27] <popey> yeah, it works
[14:27] <ikonia> the current 3 ones are good, for linux
[14:27] <popey> its an old one
[14:27] <ikonia> ahhh in that case I'd be happy to take it of your hands
[14:27] <popey> for sms you dont need latest one ☺
[14:27] <popey> ok, will have to wait till I am home
[14:27] <popey> remind me next week
[14:27] <ikonia> don't care if it's old as long as I can put a pay as you go sim in it and send messages
[14:27] <oimon> trying unetbootin instead of usb-creator
[14:27] <ikonia> thank you very much
[14:27] <popey> well, its possibly locked to 3
[14:27] <popey> ali1234 probably knows how to unlock it
[14:28] <ikonia> there is a shop near me that will unlock things for £8
[14:28] <ikonia> I can live with £8
[14:29] <popey> ☺
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> but can you live without it
[14:30] <ikonia> certainly
[14:35] <danfish> ikonia: those 3 dongle can be mostly unlocked yourself with a bit of googling but needs a windows pc (at least it did last year when I unlocked mine)
[14:39] <ikonia> danfish: yes, it appears to be a case of a firmware flash
[14:39] <daubers> bah, either I've fixed this intermittant problem, or it's being more intermittant
[14:44] <MartijnVdS> ♫ Intermission ♪
[14:44] <oimon> hmm still get boot error when trying to boot the precise live usb
[14:47] <oimon> my wife found my missing watch...in the washing machine after a wash
[14:49] <Myrtti> waterproof watch?
[14:49] <oimon> hope so
[14:49] <oimon> it's the casio bin laden model
[14:52] <Myrtti> water resistant at least then
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> Straight from the bunker
[14:54] <gordonjcp> oimon: even at that it's probably likely to be okay if you dry it out thoroughly
[14:55] <oimon> i think i took it off to shower and then threw all my dirty clothes in the laundry bin with the watch on top
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dF0QTzcuac
[14:57] <oimon> i have the black plastic one :(
[14:59] <ali1234> remote the battery and put it in a box with dry rice
[14:59] <ali1234> *remove
[14:59] <oimon> or maybe dry ice for cool effect
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> dry rice in dry ice
[15:28] <AlanBell> popey: what was the pub in southampton you suggested?
[15:38] <oimon> hmm.."boot error" seems to happen on one machine but not another
[15:42] <popey> AlanBell: pass
[15:43] <popey> AlanBell: The White Star Tavern in Oxford Road?
[15:44] <popey> Oxford Street rather
[15:44] <daubers> Hmm... in automating a process, somone's broken the manual process
[15:48] <jutnux> Howdy all
[15:50] <oimon> it appears dell inspiron 530 are cranky and don't like booting from USB! (source: the internet)
[15:52] <jutnux> Attempting to block DNS is like this: http://vmp.name/ttvk.jpg
[16:48] <bigcalm> It's days like these that I wish I had commented my code in more detail in the past
[16:48] <bigcalm> How's work going on that time machine?
[16:49] <jutnux> http://gizmodo.com/5874753/intel-caught-faking-ultrabook-gaming-demo
[16:50] <jutnux> bigcalm: Nearly there. ;)
[16:55] <bigcalm> Silly intel
[16:56] <gord> its CES, everything is fake ;)
[16:57] <bigcalm> Even UbuntuTV?
[16:57] <popey> hush your mouth!
[16:57] <bigcalm> He started it!
[16:57] <popey> ours is a concept not a product :p
[16:57]  * bigcalm points
[17:00] <jutnux> bigcalm, popey will send you to the stocks for saying that ;-)
[17:00] <popey> we're not hiding anything, some of it is a live demo, some is a video, some is mockup, some is static icons that dont do anything
[17:00] <popey> hence it's a 'concept' ☺
[17:01] <jutnux> popey: Will it run on the Raspberry PI?
[17:01] <popey> no
[17:01]  * jutnux cries
[17:01] <popey> or yes
[17:02] <ali1234> hell no :)
[17:02] <jutnux> Shame
[17:02] <oimon> maybe on a cotton candy?
[17:02] <popey> I'm sure someone could crowbar it on
[17:02] <jutnux> R_Pis look so awesome
[17:02] <ali1234> not unless someone does a huge u-turn and ubuntu starts supporting armv5(6?)
[17:02] <popey> but given we dont support the arm rev
[17:02] <jutnux> ali1234: Worth an enquiry :-)
[17:02] <Seeker`> I think I was once interviewed for a job by one of the guys involved with the Pi
[17:02] <Seeker`> Eben Upton
[17:02] <jutnux> He's the founder
[17:03] <oimon> works for broadcom
[17:03] <Seeker`> yeah
[17:03] <ali1234> you're better off with mer on the pi
[17:03] <oimon> made-up-name
[17:03] <jutnux> Luckily Debian supports arm so it is all good.
[17:03] <Seeker`> went for a job there
[17:03] <oimon> hmm i thought face spots were supposed to go away when you are 18. i seem to have 4 right now
[17:05] <Seeker`> oimon: You don't gain immunity
[17:05] <oimon> comes from having 2 colds at once
[17:05] <Seeker`> its not like they give you a jab on your 18th birthday :P
[17:05] <oimon> well i am 36
[17:05] <oimon> the hormones should have calmed now by now
[17:06] <oimon> my precise install took about an hour from CD..wow
[17:06] <oimon> now i have to go home
[17:06] <jutnux> Precise wouldn't work on my desktop
[17:06] <jutnux> Got it on my laptop though, running fine.
[17:07] <oimon> raised a bug?
[17:08] <jutnux> Nope, had no idea what caused it
[17:08] <oimon> ask in irc :D
[17:08] <jutnux> Couldn't access anything either to debug it
[17:08] <oimon> not me though,. gonna catch a train
[17:37] <awilkins> Hah, got to rate something 1 / 10 in a meeting today with no disagreement.
[17:40] <Seeker`> as long as it wasn't "my performance for the last year" :P
[17:45] <jutnux> or how valuable I am to the team
[18:12] <Supermanintights> hey guys - know any programs that can repair using .par files?
[18:12] <Supermanintights> i.e. www.quickpar.org - but linux compatible
[18:12] <gordonjcp> what's a .par file?
[18:12] <Supermanintights> a repair file - say if you have lots of .rar's and some are corrupt - the .par repairs them
[18:31] <Supermanintights> how do i change directory in terminal?
[18:31] <awilkins> cd
[18:33] <Supermanintights> merci
[18:35] <awilkins> Using a shell is a lost art that should be encouraged in the general user populace.
[18:35] <Supermanintights> hmm
[18:35] <awilkins> But not cmd.exe
[18:35] <Supermanintights> i'm trying to remember to use it for stuff like copying/moving files
[18:35] <Supermanintights> but now I'm trying to use it to repair files with PAR - and it's getting nowhere
[18:36] <awilkins> par -r <parfile> # as I recall
[18:36] <Supermanintights> do i need the #?
[18:36] <awilkins> Comment
[18:37] <awilkins> Just in case copied whole thing
[18:37] <Supermanintights> ah
[18:37] <Supermanintights> i get it
[18:37] <Supermanintights> let me try
[18:37] <Supermanintights> i've got lots of incremental .par2
[18:37] <Supermanintights> will running one run them all?
[18:37] <awilkins> May be another util. Used to use GPar2 before it was pulled
[18:38] <awilkins> Should read all par2 files in same set
[18:39] <Supermanintights> will i need to post the file name
[18:39] <Supermanintights> or file name and extension?
[18:39] <Supermanintights> i.e.
[18:39] <Supermanintights> thisisthefilename
[18:39] <awilkins> par2 filename in full, or glob it
[18:40] <Supermanintights> thisisthefilename.vol000+1
[18:40] <Supermanintights> thisisthefilename.vol000+1.par2
[18:40] <jutnux> Another delightful IT lesson in school today, powerpoint.
[18:40] <Supermanintights> what's glob?
[18:40] <awilkins> Pattern expansion
[18:40] <awilkins> thisisthe*.par2
[18:40]  * Supermanintights tries to act knowledgeable and not clueless
[18:40] <Supermanintights> got ya
[18:40] <Supermanintights> i like that
[18:40] <Supermanintights> much easier
[18:41] <Supermanintights> about 100 odd characters in the filenames
[18:41] <awilkins> Shell does it before running command on *nix : windows programs have to expand their own globs
[18:41] <Supermanintights> it's saying bad argument
[18:42] <Supermanintights> ah
[18:42] <Supermanintights> i figured it out
[18:42] <awilkins> tab completion also (hit tab and shell will fill in what it can infer)
[18:42] <Supermanintights> par2 r Ad*.par2
[18:43] <Supermanintights> apparently, according to another software - lots of packets need repairing, according to terminal - everything is showing as "no new packets found"
[18:43] <Supermanintights> perhaps i'm doing it wrong
[18:43] <Supermanintights> it's not the .par2 i'm trying to repair
[18:43] <Supermanintights> it's the other files?
[18:44] <awilkins> yes
[18:44] <Supermanintights> fml
[18:44] <Supermanintights> ok, lesson learnt
[18:44] <awilkins> par2 provides parity for other files
[18:45] <awilkins> Need at least as many parity blocks as missing blocks from files
[18:45] <Supermanintights> hmmm
[18:45] <gordonjcp> sounds like you have corrupt files
[18:45] <Supermanintights> vol1927+26
[18:45] <Supermanintights> that's what the pars go up to
[18:45] <gordonjcp> are rar files used for anything other than warez, anyway?
[18:45] <Supermanintights> i'm not surprised it's corrupt - the entire thing is 13+gb
[18:46] <Supermanintights> I use RAR's for storing my backups when I can be bothered to wait for it to compress.... :P
[18:47] <awilkins> I quite like new backup thingy in Oneiric (Duplicity)
[18:47] <Supermanintights> urgh
[18:48] <Supermanintights> it's not happening
[18:48] <Supermanintights> does case matter?
[18:48] <awilkins> Most of my work is in a VCS though - the rest is in Dropbox or isn't essential
[18:48] <awilkins> case matters in *nix filesystems
[18:49] <Supermanintights> Master Coll1.iso,001
[18:49] <Supermanintights> ah poo
[18:49] <Supermanintights> ignore
[18:49] <Supermanintights> my mousepad swapped windows while typing
[18:50] <Supermanintights> hmm
[18:51] <Supermanintights> nothing is working
[18:52] <awilkins> This is why the critical operation for backup is testing the ability to restore.. before you need to. I confess I'm lax about it myself. I just trust to multiple redundancy and simple methods.
[18:53] <Supermanintights> admittedly, this may not be a backup i've made, but regardless
[18:53] <Supermanintights> i don't want to have to give up and boot into windows to repair it
[18:53] <Supermanintights> that's the easy way out
[18:53] <Supermanintights> i want to do it commandline way - like a true geek :D
[18:54] <gordonjcp> a true geek does it the easy way
[18:54] <gordonjcp> and then gets on with something more fun
[18:54] <Supermanintights> meh
[18:56] <awilkins> try par2 r <apar2file> *
[18:57] <Supermanintights> is it the par file
[18:57] <Supermanintights> or the iso file
[18:57] <awilkins> You pass a par file as second arg
[18:57] <Supermanintights> :s
[18:58] <awilkins> the last arg is "the list of all files in this folder"
[18:58] <awilkins> (glob expansion)
[18:58] <awilkins> It will search for blocks in them all (just in case the par file name pattern doesn't match)
[18:59] <awilkins> See 'man par2'
[19:01] <diplo> evening all
[19:03] <Supermanintights> the file names are different to the PAR names
[19:03] <awilkins> Do they match the patterns in the par2 man page or are they "wrong"?
[19:04] <Supermanintights> seem to match
[19:05] <awilkins> It may be that you just have badly damaged files..
[19:05] <Supermanintights> xxxxx xxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx.vol000+1.par2
[19:05] <Supermanintights> don't say that :(
[19:05] <awilkins> Did the person who backed them up store a list of hashes (MD5SUMS or SHA1SUMS)
[19:05] <Supermanintights> xxx xxx xxx1.iso.001
[19:05] <Supermanintights> xxx xxx xxx1.iso.001.1
[19:06] <Supermanintights> not that i can find
[19:06] <Supermanintights> there seems to be a lotus spreadsheet in the folder :S
[19:06] <Supermanintights> which is unusual
[19:06] <awilkins> Not 123, a split archive
[19:07] <Supermanintights> yeah there are split archives - but according to file type - it's saying lotus 123 spreadsheet
[19:07] <Supermanintights> with a different file name to the rest
[19:07] <awilkins> Ah, "magic" can be a bit hinky sometimes
[19:07] <Supermanintights> :)
[19:08] <awilkins> Not like windows which takes extensions as gospel
[19:08] <awilkins> It samples file for content too - but it does make mistakes
[19:08] <Supermanintights> anyone thinking "give up, use the nice simple boot into windows, and just double click the .par2 and watch it do it all for you"
[19:08] <Supermanintights> is a good idea
[19:09] <Supermanintights> i'm 4 minutes shy of an hour of doing this, and i've gotten nowhere
[19:09] <awilkins> Yes... if only so you know whether your files are knacked or not
[19:09] <Supermanintights> ok
[19:09] <awilkins> You could back up folder first so you can return to it as an exercise.
[19:09] <Supermanintights> 13.5gb - how long will that take to back up :S
[19:10] <awilkins> On same drive, not long
[19:10] <Supermanintights> any useful terminal command for it?
[19:11] <awilkins> cd .. ; tar -cf backup.tar foldername
[19:11] <awilkins> No compression
[19:11] <Supermanintights> what does .. mean?
[19:12] <Supermanintights> short for the entire tree?
[19:12] <Supermanintights> i've backed up a folder
[19:12] <awilkins> go up
[19:12] <Supermanintights> and the folder i want to back up is ACS5
[19:12] <awilkins> .. is "my daddy"
[19:12] <Supermanintights> so if i'm in /Temp/ and the folder is in /Temp/ called ACS5
[19:12] <Supermanintights> i write
[19:13] <Supermanintights> cd /ACS5; tar -cf backtup.tar ACS5
[19:13] <Supermanintights> ?
[19:13] <awilkins> leave out the cd command
[19:13] <awilkins> You're already above the folder
[19:14] <Supermanintights> ah
[19:14] <awilkins> Commnd is "tape archive, create, file, backup.tar, containing ACSS"
[19:15] <awilkins> Not FAT32 is it?
[19:15] <Supermanintights> NTFS
[19:15] <Supermanintights> i have Windows partition, ubuntu partition, swap, and a big NTFS for everything between both OS
[19:16] <awilkins> FAT32 has 4GB filesize limit,ysee
[19:16] <Supermanintights> yeah
[19:16] <Supermanintights> hence me running like the plague away from it :)
[19:18] <awilkins> Always archive folder from on top.. that way they are tidy when unpacked and dont splurge into your homefolder
[19:19] <Supermanintights> :)
[19:29] <Supermanintights> wow
[19:29] <Supermanintights> this is still going
[19:29] <Supermanintights> and at times it's freeznig my computer to the point i'm expecting it to die any moment
[19:34] <gordonjcp> hmm
[19:35] <gordonjcp> no UPNP in rhythmbox?
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: only if you install the plugin
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: confluence I think? coherence? something with a c
[19:35] <gordonjcp> hm, can't see it
[19:36] <gordonjcp> oh well, no music in 12.04
[19:36] <AlanBell> I think the upnp client kind of just worked
[19:36] <gordonjcp> oh, okay
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> .. ish]
[19:36] <AlanBell> server is a separate thing, was tangerine or something on banshee and there is a standalone one that I used with rhythmbox
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> I've tried the one in my Synology
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> but I switched back to a local copy, because it's much faster
[19:37] <gordonjcp> it would be great if Ubuntu would concentrate on making things work, instead of making things different for different's sake
[19:37] <gordonjcp> presumably they've reanimated the corpse of rhythmbox for 12.04 with some eldritch rite
[19:37] <gordonjcp> since it doesn't appear to have any sensible work done for a few years
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> so that's why AlanBell keeps chickens
[19:44] <AlanBell> for eldritch rites
[19:46] <AlanBell> !info rygel | gordonjcp
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> does that work yet?
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> I've had good experiences with the "Playstation media server" or something
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> it also works on xbox, so I guess rhythmbox should be fine
[19:47] <AlanBell> I don't know quite what my expectations should be of such a thing, it kind of worked, I have no idea how featureful it is
[19:48] <AlanBell> I think tangerine isn't directly related to banshee, but both are using mono
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> tangerine used to be a banshee plugin I think, way way back?
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> something like that
[19:49] <AlanBell> could be
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> they (used to) share code
[19:49] <AlanBell> I found banshee was better at importing CDs than rhythmbox
[19:50] <AlanBell> have not really played any of them since I imported them and got it working though
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I used to use sound-juicer, but it stopped working with musicbrainz
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> so now I import CDs using banshee, then process using metaflac --add-replay-gain
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> then Musicbrainz picard
[19:52]  * AlanBell likes silence
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3
[19:53] <AlanBell> my kind of music
[19:54] <davmor2> AlanBell: I found the opposite was true Banshee was duplicating all my cd's
[19:55] <davmor2> AlanBell: and one would be 3 seconds longer than the other so it kept both versions
[19:55] <Pendulum> MartijnVdS: John Cage \o/
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: Not really, imho :)
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: I give you: http://livingroomsongs.olafurarnalds.com/
[19:58] <Pendulum> MartijnVdS: I just like it when people push boundaries and do something interesting. Plus Cage's stuff actually works quite well in certain contexts
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: I'm just not in those contexts very often ;)
[19:58] <Pendulum> heh
[19:59] <Pendulum> also, I keep having personal connections to him
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: still, check out the Olafur Arnalds link
[19:59] <Pendulum> (My dad knew him and a friend of mine studied with him)
[19:59] <Pendulum> I am
[19:59] <Pendulum> it's nice :)
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: metal drummer turned "neo-classical" person
[19:59] <Pendulum> heh
[20:00] <Pendulum> I approve
[20:18] <directhex> gordonjcp: are you after upnp server or client support?
[20:18] <gordonjcp> client, I have a UPNP server already
[20:20] <directhex> i know RB does daap... does it not do upnp?
[20:20] <gordonjcp> RB?
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> rhythmbox
[20:20] <gordonjcp> yeah
[20:20] <directhex> rhythmbox-plugin-coherence ?
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> directhex: not in 12.04
[20:20] <directhex> awesome
[20:21] <directhex> gg n1 pld
[20:21] <mgdm> I've never managed to get it to work,but then I've not tried for a while
[20:21] <gordonjcp> well I can't even get it to play any files I have
[20:21] <gordonjcp> it doesn't support .ogg, .mp3 or even .wav
[20:21] <gordonjcp> not sure what it *does* support
[20:21] <gordonjcp> I guess this is why 12.04 is alpha ;-)
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm trying to get my phone supported...
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[20:33] <gordonjcp> urgh
[20:33] <gordonjcp> the insane auto-maximise thing is infuriating
[20:34] <gordonjcp> everything I find online says you need ccsm
[20:35] <gordonjcp> but I can't find ccsm for 12.04
[20:35] <gordonjcp> :-/
[20:35] <gordonjcp> oh ffs, there it goes again
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZH82l_ie9M ?
[20:43] <davmor2> gordonjcp: it called Compiz Config Settings Manager or something like that
[20:44] <davmor2> gordonjcp: that's why everyone calls it ccsm
[20:45] <gordonjcp> yeah, I tried a few permutations
[20:45] <gordonjcp> davmor2: I'll just have to live with only using the bottom half of the screen it seems
[20:45] <AlanBell> !info compizconfig-settings-manager
[20:46] <AlanBell> yay, got it right :)
[20:46] <davmor2> AlanBell: only cause I gave you the words ;)
[20:47] <AlanBell> words are easy, but there are 2^3 potential hyphenations to select from
[20:47] <davmor2> AlanBell: to be fair USC should find it from the words to be honest :P
[20:49] <gordonjcp> apt-cache search finds it eventually
[20:49] <gordonjcp> the thing about setting "Automaximize value" to 100% doesn't work
[20:49] <gordonjcp> I still can't use most of my screen
[20:49] <AlanBell> what is the automaximise thing?
[20:50] <AlanBell> you mean the tile thing where it does an orange fade when you drag a window to the top, left or right of the screen?
[20:50] <gordonjcp> yes
[20:50] <gordonjcp> except it does it if I drag the window anywhere in pretty much the top third of the screen
[20:52] <AlanBell> that is the grid plugin, in the window management section
[20:53] <gordonjcp> meh
[20:53] <gordonjcp> this is just a mess
[20:55]  * AlanBell is perplexed by gordonjcp's bad experiences
[20:56] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: possibly just because it's an alpha version
[20:57] <AlanBell> might be that they just broke stuff while on the platform rally
[20:57] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: and this PC is about four years old, with an unsupported graphics chipset
[20:57] <AlanBell> but generally I have found precise to be like oneiric but less broken
[20:57] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I must admit I find many of the design choices in Unity to be very, very difficult to live with
[20:58] <gordonjcp> window buttons on the wrong side, maximising everything in sight, the Mac-like menu at the top thing
[20:58] <gordonjcp> these are all things that make Macs completely unusable for me
[21:00] <AlanBell> window buttons I have adapted to fine, grid tile thing I kind of like, global menu I don't like at all, launcher is fine once I stopped it auto-hiding, the dash home lens is entirely pointless, the concept of lenses in general is good, the apps lens is badly implemented
[21:01] <gordonjcp> yeah, I really cannot live with the app menu
[21:01]  * mgdm is still on Natty, and will stay there 'til something breaks
[21:01] <gordonjcp> and I just can't see why anybody could ever think it was a good idea
[21:01] <AlanBell> alt-tab is unuseable so I turned on one of the other switchers
[21:02] <gordonjcp> it worked on pre-Multifinder Mac OS
[21:02] <AlanBell> the bizare thing is that a good simple apps lens would be easy to do
[21:02] <AlanBell> it would be a lot easier to do a good lens than the one they actually did
[21:02] <gordonjcp> from System 7 onwards it became increasingly clear that the menu at the top thing was just not a good idea
[21:02] <gordonjcp> no-one else has done it since
[21:02] <gordonjcp> because it's stupid, and broken
[21:03] <AlanBell> menu moving into the panel on maximised windows is good
[21:04] <gordonjcp> yeah, but on non-maximised windows it's just a nuisance
[21:05] <AlanBell> I found how to query the gnome menu with python the other day, I will get round to doing an apps lens at some point
[21:06] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png
[21:07] <AlanBell> that was the result of me ripping out code from the default vala based apps lens until it made sense
[21:09] <AlanBell> and I did a screencast of it http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenu.ogv
[21:10] <directhex> valalol
[21:10] <AlanBell> yes indeed, that was my first experience with vala, and it was not a happy one
[21:13] <AlanBell> edit vala code, make lens, see error in .c file you didn't touch and don't recall seeing a moment ago, fix error in .c file, make lens, get same error, rinse and repeat
[21:14] <AlanBell> it is kind of a meta language or macro processing language that sort of complies into autogenerated c, which is then compiled
[21:15] <gordonjcp> yeah, I don't really get vala
[21:15] <AlanBell> so you have no way to get from an error, back to the thing you broke. This seems like a fundamentally bad idea, but apparently vala is quite fashionable
[21:15] <directhex> er, y'all were campaigning for it. especially AlanBell
[21:16] <directhex> this is the glorious c#-free future. a cheap chinese knock-off of c# with a fairly similar syntax
[21:16] <directhex> no evil JITter or VM, it's pure glorious C
[21:16] <directhex> drink it down, boys
[21:16] <AlanBell> :)
[21:16]  * AlanBell likes python
[21:17] <directhex> me, i like how vala breaks compatibility every release
[21:17] <gordonjcp> I like C
[21:17] <gordonjcp> C is nice and simple
[21:17] <davmor2> gordonjcp: weirdo
[21:17] <directhex> C is great for what it's built for
[21:17] <gordonjcp> yeah
[21:17] <davmor2> AlanBell: I'm with you dude
[21:17] <gordonjcp> I use C when I need to do lots of stuff quickly
[21:17] <directhex> but your computer should come with a special crotch-punching device for those times when you think of writing gui code in C
[21:18] <gordonjcp> directhex: what do you suggest you write it in, then?
[21:18] <gordonjcp> directhex: and how do you interface it to the business code in C?
[21:18] <directhex> gordonjcp: anything without manual memory management
[21:19] <AlanBell> not keen on c because doing your own pointer arithmetic seems a bit undignified
[21:19] <directhex> gordonjcp: and, erm, by calling into libraries? it's piss easy with c# to call into c libs. java purposefully makes it painful. i imagine python makes it easy
[21:19] <gordonjcp> yeah, but then you've got to mix python and C in the same app
[21:19] <gordonjcp> and have all sorts of weirdass goings on to synchronise the two
[21:19] <gordonjcp> it's easier just to do the whole lot in C
[21:20] <AlanBell> most of my stuff isn't realtime
[21:20] <directhex> wow. python sounds like shit, as well as slow.
[21:20] <directhex> here's a c# method signature:
[21:20] <directhex>  private static int getpid ();
[21:20] <gordonjcp> and?
[21:20] <directhex> here's a method signature which calls into libc. pay attention at the back
[21:20] <directhex>  [DllImport ("libc.so")]
[21:20] <directhex>  private static extern int getpid ();
[21:20] <directhex> HOLY HELL THAT WAS SUPER HARD

[21:21] <gordonjcp> how does C# work, does it compile to machine code?
[21:21] <directhex> JIT
[21:21] <gordonjcp> oh, it's too slow
[21:22] <gordonjcp> no good to me
[21:22] <directhex> for performance-critical code? perhaps
[21:22] <gordonjcp> well yeah
[21:22] <directhex> for gui code? your users aren't measured in ghz
[21:22] <AlanBell> if you are doing SDR stuff then you need the tin to do your exact bidding
[21:22] <gordonjcp> exactly
[21:22] <gord> my methodology is that it all the same work - arguing about this kind of stuff when they all have their pros and cons is pointless
[21:22] <gordonjcp> and that's even if you're doing it on rabidly powerful PC hardware
[21:23] <gordonjcp> if you're doing it on something like a Celeron 1400, it's easy
[21:23] <davmor2> gord: You forgot your teabags
[21:23] <gordonjcp> you can sit around waiting all day for stuff to happen, you've got cycles to burn
[21:23] <gord> davmor2, yeah, mirco told me... weird morning
[21:23] <davmor2> gord: hahaha
[21:24] <davmor2> gord: I told him too :D
[21:24] <davmor2> gord: I just figured you want reminding about it on a regular basis ;)
[21:25] <gord> davmor2, are you still here? not seen you anywhere since i walked in with my bags
[21:26] <Laney> you crazy budapestians
[21:26] <Laney> I hope you've gone and had a wander around
[21:26] <directhex> gordonjcp: your example overpowered processor is a decade-old celeron?
[21:26] <davmor2> gord: no I'm at home dude
[21:26] <gordonjcp> directhex: massively overpowered
[21:26] <directhex> gordonjcp: you know apple ios is the only major mobile ARM OS platform which isn't JITter based, right?
[21:27] <gordonjcp> directhex: at present I'm trying to squeeze what is essentially the GUIless guts of lysdr into a 33MHz DSP
[21:27] <gordonjcp> and before you start, yes I know there are faster DSPs
[21:27] <gordonjcp> but a) they're not flight-ready and b) they take way too much power
[21:28] <directhex> so your argument for filling desktop linux with segfaulty C apps is you want optimised code for a flight-ready DSP?
[21:29] <directhex> and with that, i think it's videogame time
[21:29] <gord> blaming apps segfaulting on C is a bad argument
[21:29] <gordonjcp> directhex: blaming apps segfaulting on C is more of a reflection on your poor code
[21:29] <gord> i've seen python/insert_favourite_language_here segfault waaaaaaaaaaaayyy to much for that argument to make sense
[21:30] <gordonjcp> directhex: we have this thing called "exception handling" these days
[21:30] <AlanBell> dunno how to make a python app segfault
[21:30] <gordonjcp> you should try it
[21:30] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: you can make it drop its guts though
[21:30] <gord> AlanBell, you don't use bzr enough then ;)
[21:30] <davmor2> AlanBell: It's easy hand it to me
[21:30] <AlanBell> yeah, it can crash alright!
[21:30] <gordonjcp> I don't use bzr *at all* if I can help it
[21:30] <directhex> a segfault within python etc is fine. a segfault *of* python is not
[21:31] <directhex> every unmanaged unhandled segfault should be considered a security risk
[21:31] <AlanBell> oh, actually I did get python to crash in a segfaulty way
[21:31] <daubers> Are we onto a  "my programming language is larger than yours" argument?
[21:31] <daubers> sorry, I meant better of course
[21:32] <AlanBell> if you have at-spi turned on (with or without orca actually running) and use the openERP client then it crashes after a little bit with a garbage collection error that isn't in the python code, it is in python itself
[21:32] <davmor2> we should all be using machine code or assembly anyway
[21:32] <gord> heh neat
[21:33] <daubers> Just use what ever suits the task at hand dammit! End of discussion
[21:35] <gord> the best language is often just the one you are most familiar with. regardless of language features
[21:35] <AlanBell> bug 905738 I think I need to add some gdb stacktraces to that, I tried following some instructions but I didn't understand what I was looking at
[21:36] <daubers> gord: Or the on your can afford to get some devs in to work on
[21:36] <davmor2> I only really know a little python guess what I program with
[21:36] <gordonjcp> davmor2: bah, assembly, *slooooooow*
[21:37] <gordonjcp> davmor2: if you aren't implementing it in hardware you're not done optimising it
[21:37] <daubers> gordonjcp: Now tell that to an FPGA :)
[21:37] <gordonjcp> daubers: there's a reason why I looked at throwing the mixer and demodulator onto an FPGA
[21:38]  * daubers loves FPGA's
[21:38] <gordonjcp> turns out that 48kHz is "fast enough" and within the capabilities of the DSP we're looking at usin
[21:38] <daubers> if only the dev kits where a bit better priced :(
[21:38] <gordonjcp> *using
[21:38] <gordonjcp> ah
[21:38] <gordonjcp> someone in #arduino mentioned a really cheap cpld dev board
[21:38] <davmor2> gordonjcp: you should try minuetos or the other one that I can never remember the name of
[21:38] <gordonjcp> davmor2: yeah
[21:39] <daubers> gordonjcp: I'll just get work to buy me one in a couple of weeks
[22:00] <Azelphur> Is there any way to tell apt to go away when it's making /really/ stupid dependency decisions?
[22:00] <Azelphur> It's telling me I need wine1.2 to install LMMS, I'm going to stab it in the face.
[22:05] <dutchie> Azelphur: --no-install-recommends?
[22:05] <Laney> apt-get install lmms wine1.2-
[22:05] <Azelphur> think I might have worked around it, I found a ppa which has the dependency tweaked on it to allow for wine1.3 as well
[22:05] <dutchie> ooh, does that work with apt-get? i thought that was an aptitudeism. thanks Laney
[22:05] <popey> ebenink
[22:06] <Azelphur> only problem is now my apt-get upgrade is broken because gnome15 pushed out busted packages and I'm getting size mismatches :(
[22:06] <Laney> you what now
[22:06] <Azelphur> happen to know if I can tell it to ignore size mismatches too? :D
[22:07] <dutchie> popey: what?
[22:08] <Azelphur> Laney: nope that doesn't seem to work, says wine1.2 is not going to be installed :P
[22:09] <Laney> so it's a dependency
[22:09] <Laney> you can't override those so easily
[22:10] <Azelphur> Laney: even if they are really silly? :(
[22:10] <Azelphur> I have wine1.3, that dependency is already satisfied I don't want to downgrade haha
[22:10] <Laney> right
[22:10] <Laney> you can look into equivs to make fake packages in this situation
[22:10] <Azelphur> \o/
[22:10]  * Azelphur stabs apt
[22:10] <Laney> it isn't apt's fault
[22:11] <Azelphur> surely there could be an easy override for this (I've seen it in other package managers)
[22:12] <bigcalm> Azelphur: try --nodeps
[22:12] <bigcalm> But that might only help you in this one instance
[22:13] <Laney> dpkg has force options, but there are gremlins to be found when you mess with the database so
[22:14] <Laney> you should use equivs if you are sure, or just get that patched package you found
[22:17] <Azelphur> bigcalm: apparently an unknown param
[22:18] <Azelphur> Laney: the patched ppa didn't work, same problem :(
[22:18] <Azelphur> It's like the universe hates me and wants me to make a choice between gaming and music
[22:20] <popey> http://www.farnham-as.co.uk/2012/01/come-stargazing-with-farnham-as-21st-january-2012/ AlanBell
[22:22] <AlanBell> interesting
[22:26] <ali1234> Azelphur: just fix it man
[22:26] <ali1234> learn how to rebuild packages
[22:26] <Azelphur> but that's long and arduous D:
[22:27] <ali1234> in this case all you gotta do is edit the control
[22:27] <ali1234> and then run fakeroot dpkg-buildpkg
[22:28] <ali1234> also what's a size mismatch?
[22:28] <ali1234> i've never seen it before
[22:32] <dogmatic69> could anyone recommend a nice c++ IDE
[22:33] <ali1234> what are you looking for from an IDE?
[22:33] <ali1234> code completion?
[22:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.gnome15.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=510&Itemid=7#511
[22:34] <ali1234> Azelphur: so it's a temporary problem... files didn't upload properly
[22:34] <Azelphur> guess so
[22:38] <ali1234> random question. if you;ve got windows 7 and you plug in a external USB drive that has no partitions on it but for some reason windows doesn't ask you to format it, where would you look to verify it is connected and how would you know which drive it was?
[22:38] <ali1234> i'm thinking device manager->by connection then look under the usb
[22:38] <ali1234> but i've only used XP
[22:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: isn't that in right click my computer, manage, disk manager or something
[22:39] <ali1234> i dunno
[22:39] <ali1234> also how to do same on mac?
[22:39] <ali1234> since the person has both :)
[22:39] <ali1234> iow what's the equivalent of lsusb for windows/mac
[22:46] <AlanBell> Unity TV might not be the most exciting product of CES -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16484371
[22:57] <popey> ali1234: disk manager on windows, disk utility on mac
[22:57] <ali1234> noooo
[22:57] <popey> no?
[22:58] <ali1234> suppose i plug in a usb storage device with a dead hard drive attached to it
[22:58] <ali1234> it would show on lsusb
[22:58] <ali1234> but not on fdisk -l
[22:58] <ali1234> disk manager = fdisk -l
[22:58] <ali1234> what = lsusb?
[22:58] <dogmatic69> ali1234, sorry did not see your reply. embedded c++
[22:59] <dogmatic69> code completion would be good, and something that is c/c++ directed
[22:59] <ali1234> dogmatic69: eclipse maybe? i dunno
[22:59] <dogmatic69> bloatware
[22:59] <ali1234> yeah
[23:00] <ali1234> well, IDEs are
[23:00] <ali1234> what about Qt creator?
[23:00] <dogmatic69> netbeans is not bad
[23:00] <ali1234> it's pretty good
[23:01] <mgdm> Netbeans is actually quite reasonable
[23:01] <dogmatic69> it has its quirks, but does not munch ram like eclipse
[23:02] <dogmatic69> Im doing some AVR stuff.. just seen eclipse has a avr plugin
[23:02] <bigcalm> mgdm: NetBeans > Eclipse as PHP IDE?
[23:03] <dogmatic69> ye, I use netbeans for php
[23:03] <dogmatic69> its much better
[23:03]  * bigcalm heads to the Software Centre
[23:03] <dogmatic69> bigcalm, no. just dl off the site. latest is 7.x
[23:04] <bigcalm> Big difference?
[23:04] <dogmatic69> ye, 6.x had some annoying bugs
[23:04] <bigcalm> Ooooh
[23:04] <bigcalm> There's a PHP only download
[23:04] <bigcalm> They know their audience then :)
[23:05] <dogmatic69> one was the auto complete. you type function __cons and <enter> and get function  __construct(...
[23:05] <dogmatic69> note 2x spaces
[23:06] <bigcalm> Ah
[23:06] <dogmatic69> little things like that, but highly annoying in time
[23:06] <dogmatic69> 7.x also uses about 1/2 the ram
[23:07] <mgdm> bigcalm: yes
[23:08] <mgdm> if I used an IDE for PHP, it'd probably be that
[23:08] <dogmatic69> mgdm, what you use then?
[23:08] <bigcalm> Not an IDE fan eh?
[23:08] <mgdm> dogmatic69: vim
[23:09] <mgdm> bigcalm: not desperately
[23:09] <dogmatic69> few plugins and that counts as an IDE
[23:09] <dogmatic69> :D
[23:10] <mgdm> true :-)
[23:12]  * bigcalm throws an existing project at netbeans and sees what happens
[23:12] <dogmatic69> mgdm, I would use vim but only have 2 arms
[23:12] <dogmatic69> not enough fingers for the kb combos
[23:13] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: A client has given the green light for 2 days investigation to upgrade existing CakePHP 1.1 project to most recent stable
[23:13] <dogmatic69> haha
[23:13] <dogmatic69> that is funny
[23:13] <dogmatic69> rm ./ -rf
[23:13] <dogmatic69> cake bake project
[23:13] <dogmatic69> investigation done
[23:13] <bigcalm> Ha
[23:14] <dogmatic69> serious, you wont upgrade from 1.1 to 2.0
[23:14] <dogmatic69> 1.1 -> 1.2 was almost a rewrite, 1.2 -> 1.3 nothing major, 1.3 -> 2.0 almost a rewrite
[23:15] <dogmatic69> almost nothing from 1.2 was backwards compatible to 1.1
[23:15] <mgdm> dogmatic69: I have 2 arms, 10 fingers, works fine :-)
[23:15] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: might be a case of what ever will work on PHP 5.3 then
[23:15] <dogmatic69> 2.0 will work on 5.3
[23:15] <dogmatic69> it does, I use it
[23:15] <bigcalm> I know, but 1.1 doesn't
[23:16] <bigcalm> The client's host is forcing everybody over to PHP 5.3 and offering 5.2 as a CGI
[23:16] <dogmatic69> 1.1 was written when 5.x was hardly around
[23:16] <dogmatic69> 2.0 is so clean
[23:17]  * mgdm is enjoying playing with 5.4 a bit
[23:17] <bigcalm> So it'll be told to use the CGI when that happens. But the client has agreed with us that it should be sorted out for the future
[23:17] <mgdm> $array = []; // BEST FEATURE EVAR
[23:17] <bigcalm> Haha
[23:17] <bigcalm> JavaScript?
[23:17] <mgdm> no, that's PHP, as of 5.4
[23:17] <bigcalm> I know, but that's what it reminds me of
[23:18] <mgdm> oh, well, yes
[23:18] <dogmatic69> mgdm, I like the other new oop goodness
[23:18] <mgdm> and Python
[23:18] <mgdm> dogmatic69: traits rock
[23:18] <dogmatic69> <3
[23:18] <mgdm> I need to make sure my PECL exts work on 5.4, actually
[23:18]  * mgdm makes a note for the weekend
[23:19] <mgdm> just released one of them last week, too
[23:19] <mgdm> ho hum
[23:19] <bigcalm> How do you turn off the 80char line in netbeans?
[23:20] <mgdm> why would you want to? ಠ_ಠ
[23:20] <bigcalm> Why would I want it on?
[23:20] <mgdm> because it's nice not to have lines longer than 80 chars
[23:20] <mgdm> I have that in Vim
[23:20] <bigcalm> There is a vertical red line down the page, annoying
[23:20] <mgdm> it's a big red line all down the screen, which prompted IT at work to offer to replace my monitor the other week :-D
[23:21] <bigcalm> Isn't that what line wrap is for? (Not that eclipse did it out of the tin though)
[23:21] <bigcalm> Haha
[23:21] <mgdm> I prefer to do that myself
[23:24] <bigcalm> Has netbeans tapped into the .svn folder for this project?
[23:24] <mgdm> It might've
[23:24] <bigcalm> That's a nice thingy
[23:24] <mgdm> it's certainly capable
[23:24] <bigcalm> Might have to install this on the laptop
[23:25] <bigcalm> Though that'll have to wait until my 120gb ssd arrives later this week :D
[23:25] <bigcalm> Hummf
[23:25] <bigcalm> Tilting my mouse wheel is the same as right click
[23:25] <bigcalm> Not expected
[23:26] <bigcalm> Same for forwards and backwards
[23:26] <bigcalm> Thankfully the search button on the mouse does nothing!
[23:26] <bigcalm> Who puts a search button on mice? It's silly
[23:30] <AlanBell> set it to launch cheese
[23:32] <bigcalm> That would be weird
[23:36] <mgdm> *boing* and a big chunk of Edam soars into the stratosphere
[23:36] <Laney> why do I never portion pasta correctly?
[23:36]  * Laney urghhhhhhhhhhhhh
[23:37] <bigcalm> pasta?
[23:37] <bigcalm> Mmmmmmm
[23:37] <bigcalm> I miss-read that line as "why do I never partition pasta correctly?", hence querying pasta.
[23:37] <Laney> "yeah that looks about right. Certainly not making the same mistake I make every time, oh no"
[23:37] <Laney> 10 minutes later a mountain is born
[23:38] <bigcalm> Laney: stick it in the fridge and have the rest the next day or for lunch
[23:38] <bigcalm> That's what Hayley and I do with pasta bakes
[23:38] <Laney> yeah
[23:38] <Laney> I'd rather just get it right but pasta for lunch is still good
[23:39] <popey> this bug 914529 has been driving me _nuts_ for months
[23:39] <popey> if someone can confirm I'd appreciate it
[23:41] <ali1234> popey i already filed that bug ages ago :)
[23:41] <ali1234> like 8 months ago
[23:41] <ali1234> and i think that turned out to be a dupe as well
[23:43] <ali1234> this is the cause of the bug where you click the launcher and nothing happens
[23:43] <ali1234> because 1 row of pixel from the window you want are "visible" on the current desktop, but obscured by the top panel
[23:43] <ali1234> and it's incredibly annoying
[23:48] <popey> indeed
[23:49] <popey> i get it horizontally too
[23:49] <ali1234> yep me too
[23:49] <ali1234> i tend not to use horizontal workspaces though
[23:50] <ali1234> mainly because of this bug
[23:50] <ali1234> it seems to happen mostly with firefox and terminal windows too, although that might just be because that is what i mostly use
[23:51] <ali1234> popey: if i reported a bug in maverick and nobody touched it at all, and it's fixed in oneiric, how should i close it? fix released?
[23:52] <popey> might as well
[23:55] <popey> found the window moving bug you filed ali1234 ? mark mine as dupe?
[23:55] <ali1234> i posted it in a comment
[23:56] <ali1234> it's not the same bug but it is related
[23:56] <ali1234> there's another one but the cause was different and it is marked as fixed
[23:57] <ali1234> oh wait, that's something else entirely... and it really is fixed
[23:57] <ali1234> i'm trying to reproduce it with your exact steps
[23:58] <ali1234> it's kind of hard though because i have so many windows open
[23:58] <ali1234> and there's no easy way to get rid of them all
[23:58] <ali1234> look slike i'll have to quit firefox
[23:59] <ali1234> i wish cleaning up all the open windows wasn't so painfully difficult in unity :(