[18:17] Hi high voltage -- what time's the meeting? [18:18] * highvoltage [18:18] in around 40 minutes, dgroos [18:19] 'k [19:02] howdy! [19:02] hi [19:02] anyone here for the Edubuntu meeting? [19:02] me [19:02] great [19:04] stgraber, dgroos, mgariepy, alkisg: around? [19:04] I guess I'll start off by mentioning some news [19:04] a round and as usual, a square ;) [19:04] - Edubuntu 12.04 will be an LTS version [19:04] We went through the process with the Technical Board and they approved it on Monday [19:05] nice! congrats. [19:05] I put together a quick blog post about it for the edubuntu blog: http://edubuntu.org/2012-01-10/edubuntu-lts-status [19:05] - stgraber has been cleaning the python build dependencies for packages shipped with Edubuntu [19:05] we don't have any legacy python dh scripts anymore [19:06] * alkisg waves [19:06] anyone else have any news to share? [19:07] one of our goals for 12.04 is also to create some bite size tasks for Unity lenses [19:07] they're reasonably simple to create and may be really useful in education [19:07] Unity lenses? [19:07] yep, let me see if I can find a link with more info... [19:08] btw, how easy will the JRE install, be? [19:08] (from your blog post) [19:08] well, here's a somewhat technical page describing lenses: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses [19:09] dgroos: very easy, the java we're shipping now will just be an apt-get / software center install away. you won't need additional archives or anything fancy. [19:09] Cool. [19:10] dgroos: basically, lenses allow you to display data you have on your system (or on the internet) in a specially organised way [19:10] dgroos: have you seen Ubuntu TV? it's main interface is actually a unity lense. [19:11] Not yet, but will check it out. Is this a way that we could do edubuntu-menu type stuff? [19:11] possibly [19:11] you could probably implement something like per-grade menus with that [19:12] could it be per-group menus? (user groups) [19:12] I'm wondering if we should do weekly meetings again too [19:12] a better way is probably to use desktop-profiles. [19:13] I think we kind of lost momentum doing it monthly [19:13] it would allow per-group menu reordering. [19:13] indeed, desktop-profiles work great for that [19:13] Thanks, I'll check into these as well. [19:14] I've been looking at our artwork situation last week [19:14] http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/i386/education-menus/filelist show a desktop-profiles package reordering KDE and Gnome menus. [19:15] pere: thanks. [19:15] I think that we should actually stick with the wallpaper we used in 11.10. We had great feedback on it and we never really extended it to the whole system. I think it might actually be best to extend that artwork and polish it up more rather than changing it [19:15] Will talk about that on-list to see if there's any ideas/objections/etc [19:16] pere: I haven't had much chance yet to try to integrate an edubuntu machine into a debian-edu network yet [19:17] too bad. squeeze/beta2 is very good now. :) [19:17] pere: but I've gotten some big hairy sticky things off from my todo list so I should get to it sooner now [19:19] will there be any changes in users and groups tool--sorry I've dropped out of the loop. [19:19] well, even if we get it right with some documentation on what users have to do, I guess it won't be that bad. if we have something working then we can get it *great* for the next release(s) [19:20] dgroos: nothing planned as far as I know. aparently the kde users and groups tool is a lot better and someone even suggested that we ship that, but I doubt it would happen [19:20] dgroos: I guess when we have freeipa in ubuntu we'd probably use that in edubuntu [19:21] I did end up using their tool a couple of years ago due to a bug in the GNOME tool. [19:21] highvoltage: in theory all you should need to integrate a ubuntu machine into a skolelinux network should be to install libpam-sss and libnss-sss, and the rest will happen automatically. :) [19:22] Cool. How about LDAP tool? I mean a tool that doesn't take too much sys knowledge? [19:22] pere: I'll try that and paste that back if it doesn't work :) [19:22] dgroos: that's what freeipa does as well. you get user management and ldap/kerberos/etc all in one [19:22] dgroos: jxplorer seem to be the best gui for ldap editing. [19:23] dgroos: and on the client side you install sssd and then you pretty much have authentication against it and cached credentials / kerberos tickets / etc. [19:25] in Debian Edu/Squeeze, we set up a LDAP backed Kerberos server out of the box, and use sssd for the laptop setup to allow laptops to work also without connection to the LDAP/Kerberos server. [19:25] anything else that anyone wants to bring up? I guess alkisg, mgariepy and stgraber is busy elsewhere atm :) [19:25] pere: I didn't realise it did all of that already. When I have a working setup I'll document it for the edubuntu website too [19:25] am I allowed to talk about Debian Edu? [19:26] pere: as much as you want! [19:26] highvoltage: it does all that and more. :) [19:26] I think it's great the collaboration that has started between the diff distress. [19:26] cool [19:26] *distros [19:26] in Debian Edu, we have automatic configuration of Nagios and Munin, where clients register with the server and the server automatically start to monitor the services on the clients. [19:26] this is done using the sitesummary package. [19:27] I've never heard of that [19:27] we also provide KDE, Gnome and LXDE as desktop solutions. KDE get most work, but the others seem to work fine as well. [19:27] looking at the package description it looks like it could be useful for a bunch of stuff [19:28] See for the munin count for the city of Narvik. :) [19:28] The admin set site to be the name of the school, and the stat show how many computers report in from each school. :) [19:29] Wow--mucho info. [19:30] http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu-announce/2012/01/msg00000.html is the announcement for beta2 of Debian Edu/Squeeze, which I hope to have ready in a few weeks. [19:30] nice [19:30] I'm a bit unsure, is this the first squeeze release for debian-edu? or just the point release update? [19:31] we also provide LTSP setup out of the box, with either thin clients (X terminals running everything on the server) or diskless workstations (workstations running everything locally but with no disk - root is NFS). [19:31] when we are done, it will be the first squeeze release for debian edu. [19:31] progress has been slow since I got my second kid. :) [19:32] I guess we can announce that on the Edubuntu website too when it's ready, if that's ok [19:32] absolutely. :) [19:32] one nice feature is our roaming workstation profile, which is the laptop setup with connections to the LDAP/Kerberos server. [19:32] I'm sure I've seen you post it before in #debian-edu, but where's the link to the iso that should be tested? [19:33] I made it autodetect everything in a way that allow me to install it at the university of oslo network and get it to connect to the uio.no infrastructure instead. [19:33] That is an important feature for schools that allow integration of student laptops into their network. [19:33] I made a pam module that create a local home directory for the user on the first login, and after that the user can take the laptop with him and log using the cached password. [19:34] highvoltage: at the end of are the links to the ISOs. [19:34] thanks [19:34] we also look up the networked home directory and provide a KDE and Gnome shortcut to the SMB exported home directory. Thanks to Kerberos, this worked flawlessly at the university. :) [19:35] I could just click on the link and get direct access to my university home directory. :) [19:36] cool, very useful. [19:36] I guess that is enough adverticement for now. :) There are heaps of other nice stuff in Debian Edu, so check it out. :) [19:36] that's pretty neet [19:36] *neat [19:37] * alkisg wants to try debian-edu in a school some time, but didn't have the chance to do it yet [19:37] pere: yeah features like that are a bit harder to just find by yourself though. thanks for mentioning it :) [19:37] highvoltage: about the weekly vs monthly meetings... why not every 2 weeks? [19:37] alkisg: well, I just sent a mail to the list about it. I think perhaps every week but with alternating times [19:38] alkisg: this timezone is hard for some people in your timezone because it's in the evening, so perhaps there should be an earlier slot too [19:38] alkisg: but I guess every 2 weeks would be fine too [19:39] Nah, at 9 a.m. here teachers are at schools so they couldn't attend meetings. It might help people in other timezones though [19:39] alkisg: perhaps we could try that first [19:39] well 9:00 UTC would be around 11am for you [19:39] Ah 9 UTC, not 7 UTC... same thing though [19:39] but yes, they'd still be at school [19:40] for me it need to be after the kids are in bed, so 19:00 UTC was fine. [19:40] It'd be interesting to try alternate meeting times, yup [19:40] so perhaps we should keep the last wednesday of the month at 19:00 UTC [19:40] and then have another one the second wednesday of the month on another time [19:41] we've had a few people say before that 19:00 never works well for them [19:41] so it would be nice to have an alternate time [19:41] I can only do it now since I'm not teaching this year. [19:42] yeah I think you, dinda and flint asked for alternate times a few times [19:42] ok, I'll update that to the list too [19:42] I have nothing more, anything else before we wrap up? [19:43] Some small news about epoptes, a new version with groups support will be released soon, I hope stgraber can import it even though we're past debianimportfreeze [19:44] cool, that's a nice feature [19:44] For sure. [19:44] pere: have you seen epoptes before? [19:46] pere: it's similar in some of its functionality to italc, we're moving away from italc to epoptes in edubuntu: http://www.epoptes.org/ [19:47] highvoltage: nope. the italc alternative I know about is controlaula. [19:47] I have not investigated any of them. [19:47] the german group in Debian Edu use italc, and the spanish group use controlaula. [19:48] highvoltage: why do you move away from italc? [19:49] pere: stgraber pointed out some concerns over its supportability over the long term. epoptes seems to have less crud and it's very actively maintained by alkisg [19:50] And the reason we developed epoptes in the first place was that italc crashed in more than 50% of our systems... [19:50] does it work for non-linux machines? [19:50] No [19:51] It works on most Linux DEs, but not on non-linux machines [19:51] right. I have vague memories of icalc or controlaula working on windows and mac, but might be mistaken. [19:51] Italc does work on windows. The problem is that it's not maintained on linux... [19:52] ...e.g. logout/reboot/shutdown has not been working on linux for years [19:53] I always found iTALC unstable and if a teacher can't depend on something, better to not to even try it. [19:53] That's why I like epoptes. [19:54] right. did any of you try ? [19:55] I've only heard of it before but haven't seen it [19:55] I did, and while it has a lot of features, it's too focused on the specific installations done in Spain... [19:55] I don't think I got it working, and I had to format to get it properly removed :( [19:55] But that was 2-3 years ago, haven't looked at its progress since [19:55] screenshots look java'y [19:57] I need to go, can we call it a meeting? [19:57] Thank you highvoltage :) [19:57] I like the, "…share information and files easily". Reminds me of the coccinella I just read about --use jabber? [19:57] OK [19:57] Thanks highvoltage as always. [19:58] and thanks alkisg, dgroos, pere and tedmasterweb for being here :) [19:58] I'll paste the meeting notes and log to the edubuntu-devel list tomorrow [19:58] dgroos: yes, coccinella use the jabber protocol. I just sponsored it into Debian. [19:59] highvoltage: see you later. :) [19:59] that was you! It is way cool. [19:59] dgroos: its maintainer hang on #debian-edu (irc.debian.org). [19:59] pere: does controlaula use it? [19:59] dgroos: no idea, but I doubt it. [20:00] I'll be watching it--I'm also watching how plone implements XMMP, it opens up lots of possibilities. [20:01] yeah, XMPP looks very promising. :) [20:01] chat, audio, video and whiteboard in one protocol. but not one tool yet. :) [20:02] My studies focus on how software can scaffold group collaboration and bring it to a level higher then available due to limitations of students' cognition/social levels. [20:02] Sure. Hey, I've been wondering, do you know CmapTools/CmapServer, pere? [20:02] dgroos: nope. what do they do? [20:03] They are a great combo but not open source--though they are free. They allow for [20:03] individual or group/synchronous mapping. [20:04] btw, regarding school settings. you might be interested in . :) [20:04] For example, here's one I just made to show the steps of a unit I taught and the research I did on it: http://ci-cmap.oit.umn.edu:8009/rid=1K5NH8JPQ-1YGSKFB-Q70/Knowledgebuilding2.cmap.jpg?rid=1K5NH8JPQ-1YGSKFB-Q70&partName=htmljpeg [20:05] right, so a kind of mind mapper? [20:06] Yes. [20:06] freemind is the only one we have slightly looked at for Debian Edu. [20:06] I did not track that, so I do not know what was concluded regarding it. I notice it is not included in our DVD. [20:07] http://freemind.sourceforge.net/ [20:07] The CmapServer part is a web server, allowing both synch. editing as well as instant publishing to the web. [20:07] right. [20:07] I've tried out free mind but I don't see how to easily do this... [20:08] http://ci-cmap.oit.umn.edu:8009/rid=1K6FBMLGZ-2806BKN-MLZ/aaInquiry-Overview%20of%20Progressive%20Inquiry--for%20Education%20Professionals.cmap [20:08] that is, making the links between the nodes. [20:10] I wonder if XMPP would be the platform on which to build an open source concept mapping/mind-mapping tool. [20:10] Any thoughts? [20:10] *on that :) [20:13] nope, outside my area of expertice. :) [20:14] 'k thanks, thought I would ask, you never know… :) [20:14] :) [20:15] I just sponsored the package on request. I do not know much about XMPP. [20:15] if you want a package in Debian, my offer is listed on . :) [20:16] Cool, I'll check it out. [21:06] highvoltage: ping?