[18:17] <dgroos> Hi high voltage -- what time's the meeting?
[18:18] <dgroos> * highvoltage
[18:18] <highvoltage> in around 40 minutes, dgroos
[18:19] <dgroos> 'k
[19:02] <highvoltage> howdy!
[19:02] <tedmasterweb> hi
[19:02] <highvoltage> anyone here for the Edubuntu meeting?
[19:02] <tedmasterweb> me
[19:02] <highvoltage> great
[19:04] <highvoltage> stgraber, dgroos, mgariepy, alkisg: around?
[19:04] <highvoltage> I guess I'll start off by mentioning some news
[19:04] <dgroos> a round and as usual, a square ;)
[19:04] <highvoltage> - Edubuntu 12.04 will be an LTS version
[19:04] <highvoltage> We went through the process with the Technical Board and they approved it on Monday
[19:05] <dgroos> nice! congrats.
[19:05] <highvoltage> I put together a quick blog post about it for the edubuntu blog: http://edubuntu.org/2012-01-10/edubuntu-lts-status
[19:05] <highvoltage> - stgraber has been cleaning the python build dependencies for packages shipped with Edubuntu
[19:05] <highvoltage> we don't have any legacy python dh scripts anymore
[19:06]  * alkisg waves
[19:06] <highvoltage> anyone else have any news to share?
[19:07] <highvoltage> one of our goals for 12.04 is also to create some bite size tasks for Unity lenses
[19:07] <highvoltage> they're reasonably simple to create and may be really useful in education
[19:07] <dgroos> Unity lenses?
[19:07] <highvoltage> yep, let me see if I can find a link with more info...
[19:08] <dgroos> btw, how easy will the JRE install, be?
[19:08] <dgroos> (from your blog post)
[19:08] <highvoltage> well, here's a somewhat technical page describing lenses: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
[19:09] <highvoltage> dgroos: very easy, the java we're shipping now will just be an apt-get / software center install away. you won't need additional archives or anything fancy.
[19:09] <dgroos> Cool.
[19:10] <highvoltage> dgroos: basically, lenses allow you to display data you have on your system (or on the internet) in a specially organised way
[19:10] <highvoltage> dgroos: have you seen Ubuntu TV? it's main interface is actually a unity lense.
[19:11] <dgroos> Not yet, but will check it out.  Is this a way that we could do edubuntu-menu type stuff?
[19:11] <highvoltage> possibly
[19:11] <highvoltage> you could probably implement something like per-grade menus with that
[19:12] <dgroos> could it be per-group menus? (user groups)
[19:12] <highvoltage> I'm wondering if we should do weekly meetings again too
[19:12] <pere> a better way is probably to use desktop-profiles.
[19:13] <highvoltage> I think we kind of lost momentum doing it monthly
[19:13] <pere> it would allow per-group menu reordering.
[19:13] <highvoltage> indeed, desktop-profiles work great for that
[19:13] <dgroos> Thanks, I'll check into these as well.
[19:14] <highvoltage> I've been looking at our artwork situation last week
[19:14] <pere> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/i386/education-menus/filelist show a desktop-profiles package reordering KDE and Gnome menus.
[19:15] <dgroos> pere: thanks.
[19:15] <highvoltage> I think that we should actually stick with the wallpaper we used in 11.10. We had great feedback on it and we never really extended it to the whole system. I think it might actually be best to extend that artwork and polish it up more rather than changing it
[19:15] <highvoltage> Will talk about that on-list to see if there's any ideas/objections/etc
[19:16] <highvoltage> pere: I haven't had much chance yet to try to integrate an edubuntu machine into a debian-edu network yet
[19:17] <pere> too bad.  squeeze/beta2 is very good now. :)
[19:17] <highvoltage> pere: but I've gotten some big hairy sticky things off from my todo list so I should get to it sooner now
[19:19] <dgroos> will there be any changes in users and groups tool--sorry I've dropped out of the loop.
[19:19] <highvoltage> well, even if we get it right with some documentation on what users have to do, I guess it won't be that bad. if we have something working then we can get it *great* for the next release(s)
[19:20] <highvoltage> dgroos: nothing planned as far as I know. aparently the kde users and groups tool is a lot better and someone even suggested that we ship that, but I doubt it would happen
[19:20] <highvoltage> dgroos: I guess when we have freeipa in ubuntu we'd probably use that in edubuntu
[19:21] <dgroos> I did end up using their tool a couple of years ago due to a bug in the GNOME tool.
[19:21] <pere> highvoltage: in theory all you should need to integrate a ubuntu machine into a skolelinux network should be to install libpam-sss and libnss-sss, and the rest will happen automatically. :)
[19:22] <dgroos> Cool.  How about LDAP tool?  I mean a tool that doesn't take too much sys knowledge?
[19:22] <highvoltage> pere: I'll try that and paste that back if it doesn't work :)
[19:22] <highvoltage> dgroos: that's what freeipa does as well. you get user management and ldap/kerberos/etc all in one
[19:22] <pere> dgroos: jxplorer seem to be the best gui for ldap editing.
[19:23] <highvoltage> dgroos: and on the client side you install sssd and then you pretty much have authentication against it and cached credentials / kerberos tickets / etc.
[19:25] <pere> in Debian Edu/Squeeze, we set up a LDAP backed Kerberos server out of the box, and use sssd for the laptop setup to allow laptops to work also without connection to the LDAP/Kerberos server.
[19:25] <highvoltage> anything else that anyone wants to bring up? I guess alkisg, mgariepy and stgraber is busy elsewhere atm :)
[19:25] <highvoltage> pere: I didn't realise it did all of that already. When I have a working setup I'll document it for the edubuntu website too
[19:25] <pere> am I allowed to talk about Debian Edu?
[19:26] <highvoltage> pere: as much as you want!
[19:26] <pere> highvoltage: it does all that and more. :)
[19:26] <dgroos> I think it's great the collaboration that has started between the diff distress.
[19:26] <highvoltage> cool
[19:26] <dgroos> *distros
[19:26] <pere> in Debian Edu, we have automatic configuration of Nagios and Munin, where clients register with the server and the server automatically start to monitor the services on the clients.
[19:26] <pere> this is done using the sitesummary package.
[19:27] <highvoltage> I've never heard of that
[19:27] <pere> we also provide KDE, Gnome and LXDE as desktop solutions.  KDE get most work, but the others seem to work fine as well.
[19:27] <highvoltage> looking at the package description it looks like it could be useful for a bunch of stuff
[19:28] <pere> See <URL: http://narvikskolen.no/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain.html#Sitesummary > for the munin count for the city of Narvik. :)
[19:28] <pere> The admin set site to be the name of the school, and the stat show how many computers report in from each school. :)
[19:29] <dgroos> Wow--mucho info.
[19:30] <pere> http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu-announce/2012/01/msg00000.html is the announcement for beta2 of Debian Edu/Squeeze, which I hope to have ready in a few weeks.
[19:30] <highvoltage> nice
[19:30] <highvoltage> I'm a bit unsure, is this the first squeeze release for debian-edu? or just the point release update?
[19:31] <pere> we also provide LTSP setup out of the box, with either thin clients (X terminals running everything on the server) or diskless workstations (workstations running everything locally but with no disk - root is NFS).
[19:31] <pere> when we are done, it will be the first squeeze release for debian edu.
[19:31] <pere> progress has been slow since I got my second kid. :)
[19:32] <highvoltage> I guess we can announce that on the Edubuntu website too when it's ready, if that's ok
[19:32] <pere> absolutely. :)
[19:32] <pere> one nice feature is our roaming workstation profile, which is the laptop setup with connections to the LDAP/Kerberos server.
[19:32] <highvoltage> I'm sure I've seen you post it before in #debian-edu, but where's the link to the iso that should be tested?
[19:33] <pere> I made it autodetect everything in a way that allow me to install it at the university of oslo network and get it to connect to the uio.no infrastructure instead.
[19:33] <dgroos> That is an important feature for schools that allow integration of student laptops into their network.
[19:33] <pere> I made a pam module that create a local home directory for the user on the first login, and after that the user can take the laptop with him and log using the cached password.
[19:34] <pere> highvoltage: at the end of <URL: http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu-announce/2012/01/msg00000.html > are the links to the ISOs.
[19:34] <highvoltage> thanks
[19:34] <pere> we also look up the networked home directory and provide a KDE and Gnome shortcut to the SMB exported home directory.  Thanks to Kerberos, this worked flawlessly at the university. :)
[19:35] <pere> I could just click on the link and get direct access to my university home directory. :)
[19:36] <dgroos> cool, very useful.
[19:36] <pere> I guess that is enough adverticement for now. :)  There are heaps of other nice stuff in Debian Edu, so check it out. :)
[19:36] <highvoltage> that's pretty neet
[19:36] <highvoltage> *neat
[19:37]  * alkisg wants to try debian-edu in a school some time, but didn't have the chance to do it yet
[19:37] <highvoltage> pere: yeah features like that are a bit harder to just find by yourself though. thanks for mentioning it :)
[19:37] <alkisg> highvoltage: about the weekly vs monthly meetings... why not every 2 weeks?
[19:37] <highvoltage> alkisg: well, I just sent a mail to the list about it. I think perhaps every week but with alternating times
[19:38] <highvoltage> alkisg: this timezone is hard for some people in your timezone because it's in the evening, so perhaps there should be an earlier slot too
[19:38] <highvoltage> alkisg: but I guess every 2 weeks would be fine too
[19:39] <alkisg> Nah, at 9 a.m. here teachers are at schools so they couldn't attend meetings. It might help people in other timezones though
[19:39] <highvoltage> alkisg: perhaps we could try that first
[19:39] <highvoltage> well 9:00 UTC would be around 11am for you
[19:39] <alkisg> Ah 9 UTC, not 7 UTC... same thing though
[19:39] <highvoltage> but yes, they'd still be at school
[19:40] <pere> for me it need to be after the kids are in bed, so 19:00 UTC was fine.
[19:40] <alkisg> It'd be interesting to try alternate meeting times, yup
[19:40] <highvoltage> so perhaps we should keep the last wednesday of the month at 19:00 UTC
[19:40] <highvoltage> and then have another one the second wednesday of the month on another time
[19:41] <highvoltage> we've had a few people say before that 19:00 never works well for them
[19:41] <highvoltage> so it would be nice to have an alternate time
[19:41] <dgroos> I can only do it now since I'm not teaching this year.
[19:42] <highvoltage> yeah I think you, dinda and flint asked for alternate times a few times
[19:42] <highvoltage> ok, I'll update that to the list too
[19:42] <highvoltage> I have nothing more, anything else before we wrap up?
[19:43] <alkisg> Some small news about epoptes, a new version with groups support will be released soon, I hope stgraber can import it even though we're past debianimportfreeze
[19:44] <highvoltage> cool, that's a nice feature
[19:44] <dgroos> For sure.
[19:44] <highvoltage> pere: have you seen epoptes before?
[19:46] <highvoltage> pere: it's similar in some of its functionality to italc, we're moving away from italc to epoptes in edubuntu: http://www.epoptes.org/
[19:47] <pere> highvoltage: nope.  the italc alternative I know about is controlaula.
[19:47] <pere> I have not investigated any of them.
[19:47] <pere> the german group in Debian Edu use italc, and the spanish group use controlaula.
[19:48] <pere> highvoltage: why do you move away from italc?
[19:49] <highvoltage> pere: stgraber pointed out some concerns over its supportability over the long term. epoptes seems to have less crud and it's very actively maintained by alkisg
[19:50] <alkisg> And the reason we developed epoptes in the first place was that italc crashed in more than 50% of our systems...
[19:50] <pere> does it work for non-linux machines?
[19:50] <alkisg> No
[19:51] <alkisg> It works on most Linux DEs, but not on non-linux machines
[19:51] <pere> right.  I have vague memories of icalc or controlaula working on windows and mac, but might be mistaken.
[19:51] <alkisg> Italc does work on windows. The problem is that it's not maintained on linux...
[19:52] <alkisg> ...e.g. logout/reboot/shutdown has not been working on linux for years
[19:53] <dgroos> I always found iTALC unstable and if a teacher can't depend on something, better to not to even try it.
[19:53] <dgroos> That's why I like epoptes.
[19:54] <pere> right.  did any of you try <URL: http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/controlaula.html >?
[19:55] <highvoltage> I've only heard of it before but haven't seen it
[19:55] <alkisg> I did, and while it has a lot of features, it's too focused on the specific installations done in Spain...
[19:55] <alkisg> I don't think I got it working, and I had to format to get it properly removed :(
[19:55] <alkisg> But that was 2-3 years ago, haven't looked at its progress since
[19:55] <highvoltage> screenshots look java'y
[19:57] <highvoltage> I need to go, can we call it a meeting?
[19:57] <alkisg> Thank you highvoltage :)
[19:57] <dgroos> I like the, "…share information and files easily".  Reminds me of the coccinella I just read about --use jabber?
[19:57] <dgroos> OK
[19:57] <dgroos> Thanks highvoltage as always.
[19:58] <highvoltage> and thanks alkisg, dgroos, pere and tedmasterweb for being here :)
[19:58] <highvoltage> I'll paste the meeting notes and log to the edubuntu-devel list tomorrow
[19:58] <pere> dgroos: yes, coccinella use the jabber protocol.  I just sponsored it into Debian.
[19:59] <pere> highvoltage: see you later. :)
[19:59] <dgroos> that was you!  It is way cool.
[19:59] <pere> dgroos: its maintainer hang on #debian-edu (irc.debian.org).
[19:59] <dgroos> pere: does controlaula use it?
[19:59] <pere> dgroos: no idea, but I doubt it.
[20:00] <dgroos> I'll be watching it--I'm also watching how plone implements XMMP, it opens up lots of possibilities.
[20:01] <pere> yeah, XMPP looks very promising. :)
[20:01] <pere> chat, audio, video and whiteboard in one protocol.  but not one tool yet. :)
[20:02] <dgroos> My studies focus on how software can scaffold group collaboration and bring it to a level higher then available due to limitations of students' cognition/social levels.
[20:02] <dgroos> Sure.  Hey, I've been wondering, do you know CmapTools/CmapServer, pere?
[20:02] <pere> dgroos: nope.  what do they do?
[20:03] <dgroos> They are a great combo but not open source--though they are free.  They allow for
[20:03] <dgroos> individual or group/synchronous mapping.
[20:04] <pere> btw, regarding school settings.  you might be interested in <URL: http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Changing_the_default_Iceweasel_start_page_in_Debian_Edu_Squeeze.html >. :)
[20:04] <dgroos> For example, here's one I just made to show the steps of a unit I taught and the research I did on it: http://ci-cmap.oit.umn.edu:8009/rid=1K5NH8JPQ-1YGSKFB-Q70/Knowledgebuilding2.cmap.jpg?rid=1K5NH8JPQ-1YGSKFB-Q70&partName=htmljpeg
[20:05] <pere> right, so a kind of mind mapper?
[20:06] <dgroos> Yes.
[20:06] <pere> freemind is the only one we have slightly looked at for Debian Edu.
[20:06] <pere> I did not track that, so I do not know what was concluded regarding it.  I notice it is not included in our DVD.
[20:07] <pere> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/
[20:07] <dgroos> The CmapServer part is a web server, allowing both synch. editing as well as instant publishing to the web.
[20:07] <pere> right.
[20:07] <dgroos> I've tried out free mind but I don't see how to easily do this...
[20:08] <dgroos> http://ci-cmap.oit.umn.edu:8009/rid=1K6FBMLGZ-2806BKN-MLZ/aaInquiry-Overview%20of%20Progressive%20Inquiry--for%20Education%20Professionals.cmap
[20:08] <dgroos> that is, making the links between the nodes.
[20:10] <dgroos> I wonder if XMPP would be the platform on which to build an open source concept mapping/mind-mapping tool.
[20:10] <dgroos> Any thoughts?
[20:10] <dgroos> *on that :)
[20:13] <pere> nope, outside my area of expertice. :)
[20:14] <dgroos> 'k thanks, thought I would ask, you never know… :)
[20:14] <pere> :)
[20:15] <pere> I just sponsored the package on request.  I do not know much about XMPP.
[20:15] <pere> if you want a package in Debian, my offer is listed on <URL: http://www.hungry.com/~pere/debian-sponsoring.html >. :)
[20:16] <dgroos> Cool, I'll check it out.
[21:06] <dgroos> highvoltage: ping?