tgm4883Saviq, are you handing the DVR type stuff?00:05
tgm4883I ask, because the next version of MythTV should have this nice service API http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Services_API00:05
Saviqtgm4883, there wasn't any real evaluation of DVRs, but myth is definitely on the table00:06
tgm4883Saviq, Other than daily use of Unity, I don't know much about it. I've been reading up on lenses and scopes for the last 30 minutes, is that basically what this will be made out of? (lenses and scopes)00:07
tgm4883ie. there will be a videos lense, which there could be a mythtv scope for00:08
tgm4883ah I see you basically answered that with a yes above00:09
tgm4883sorry just reading backlog :)(00:09
Saviqtgm4883, it really depends00:12
Saviqthe most integrated approach would probably be with a mythtv scope for the video lens00:12
Saviqa bit more customized - a separate lens for mythtv00:12
Saviqand even more custom, if required - just a fullscreen app that will just paint whatever it wants00:13
tgm4883Saviq, is there plans for a DVR lens?00:13
tgm4883it just seems that "videos" doesn't encompass everything that a DVR would be expected to do00:14
Saviqtgm4883, why not?00:17
tgm4883Saviq, well to me, Video would be for video playback. If I wanted to schedule a recording I don't really think that fits00:18
tgm4883on the other hand00:18
tgm4883if I'm searching, I would want it to search though both recorded content, videos, and possibly upcoming recordings00:18
tgm4883TV guide wouldn't really fit into a video lens IMO00:19
Saviqtgm4883, that's why we have a separate EPG00:20
Saviqthat's a fairly standard grid00:21
tgm4883Saviq, ah nice00:22
tgm4883so maybe videos is the proper place for it (mythTV)00:22
tgm4883Saviq, is there a target for shipping this? (eg. 12.04)00:23
Saviqtgm4883, nope00:29
tgm4883even better, cause the services API isn't going to be done until MythTV 0.25, which is going to miss the 12.04 cut off00:30
tgm4883ah, hometime00:30
* tgm4883 heads out00:30
jimmy_deananybody around?01:01
Saviqjimmy_dean, it's 2am here, so not for long, but still here01:05
jimmy_deanIs there much of a community working on UbuntuTV yet?01:05
jimmy_deanI'd like to contribute01:05
Saviqdid you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing ?01:06
mhall119Saviq: are you in Budapest?01:06
Saviqmhall119, yes01:06
mhall119I figured you were in Vegas01:06
Saviqmhall119, no, just mgmt went there01:06
Saviqjimmy_dean, and http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/contributors01:06
jimmy_deanSaviq, yes I saw that01:07
mhall119lucky them01:07
Saviqmhall119, not really, AFAIK01:07
jimmy_deannot that last link though01:07
Saviqmanning the booth whole day01:07
Saviqjimmy_dean, best subscribe to the ubuntu-tv list01:07
mhall119doesn't sound so bad01:07
mhall119jimmy_dean: we've been discussing Ubuntu TV and playing with mockups around here for about a month01:08
jimmy_deanSaviq, just did that...ok01:08
mhall119now that there's some concept code to work on, we'll probably start hacking01:08
* mhall119 needs to brush up on his C++01:08
jimmy_deanso where did the code that is being demoed at CES come from?01:08
Saviqit's a proof of concept developed at Canonical01:08
mhall119jimmy_dean: a small band of crazy hackers inside Canonical01:08
jimmy_deanok, I have quite a bit of experience working on software like Ubuntu TV for a living01:09
mhall119I can only assume they were locked in a small room and force-fed coffee01:09
jimmy_deanand I'd like to put it to some actual good use :)01:09
mhall119jimmy_dean: the code is up on launchpad, and instructions on the wiki for getting it going01:09
Saviqmhall119, ok, you seem to be handling it, I'm off, cheers!01:09
mhall119Saviq: g'night01:10
jimmy_deanthanks Saviq01:10
jimmy_deanmhall119, so neither you nor Saviq work for Canonical?01:10
mhall119we both do, actually01:11
mhall119Saviq I believe was one of those crazy coffee-fueled hackers that produced the demo shown at CES01:11
jimmy_deanoh ok, nice01:11
mhall119I'm a developer liason, helping people use Ubuntu technology01:11
jimmy_deando you enjoy working for Canonical?01:12
mhall119oh yes, it's an amazing place to work, and you get to work with so many very smart and talented people01:12
jimmy_deanawesome, I'd really like to work for Canonical as well01:13
jimmy_deanit does sound quite awesome01:13
mhall119in what capacity?01:13
jimmy_deanI currently work for a company making software that is very very similar to Ubuntu TV01:13
jimmy_deanusing GStreamer01:14
mhall119http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/careers lists the current openings, see if something there sounds right for you and send in your application01:14
jimmy_deanI've actually just applied a few days ago :)01:14
jimmy_deanhaven't heard a thing back yet01:14
mhall119it can take a while01:14
jimmy_deanthat's what I hear01:14
mhall119I applied to probably a dozen positions over more than a year before I got hired01:15
jimmy_deanreally, so you can apply to more than one at a time?01:15
mhall119it's very competative01:15
jimmy_deanthat's ok?01:15
mhall119yeah, that's fine01:15
jimmy_deannice to know, I may apply to another one then01:15
mhall119if you get an interview, just let the person know you've applied to other positions, but it won't count against you01:15
jimmy_deanthanks for the tip01:16
mhall119I had 2 interviews for 2 separate positions when one of them hired me :)01:16
mhall119no problem01:16
jimmy_deanwell gotta run for the evening, but I hope to be back to contribute and watch the project progress01:16
L-----Dis my understanding correct that UTV is a modified version of unity 2d04:44
tgm4883L-----D, IIRC, no05:03
tgm4883I'll have to look though the backlog though for the full answer05:03
L-----Dtgm4883, thanks, so it that true UTV BASED on a modofied version of unity 2d?05:05
tgm4883L-----D, SaviqAlanBell, it's running on OpenGL23:1405:06
tgm4883Saviq2d is really a misnomer05:06
tgm4883that is what was said earlier, take from it what you want05:07
tgm4883I read it as it's not unity2d, but looking at it again, it's probably based on that05:07
Saviqtgm4883, yes it's based off of unity2d, only that it should never have been named 2d07:11
SaviqL-----D, yes it is based off of unity 2d, under OpenGL07:57
Saviqthe "2d" part of the name does not mean it can't do 3d, it simply was designed to work on 2d07:58
L-----DSaviq, then is there any plan for unity3d?07:58
Saviqthere is no plan for unity2d right now, either07:58
Saviqit's a concept, that's all07:58
L-----DSaviq, OK07:59
L-----DSaviq, but if I want to prepare some dev skills for UTV dev, what would I need08:00
Saviqthere's no plans right now that could tell you that, sorry08:00
L-----DSaviq, and since UTV also going to run on arm platform, something like Java/JVM based app would not be a good idea?08:01
Saviqwe'll let all of you guys know once we know it08:01
SaviqL-----D, when is ever a Java/JVM based app a good idea ;P08:01
L-----DSaviq, ;(08:01
SaviqL-----D, there's better options to go cross platform08:02
Saviqbut yeah, rather too big of an overhead there08:02
Saviqbut again - there're really no concrete plans right now08:05
L-----DSaviq, I have a media library and a media server in Java already, I want to connect/show it on UTV08:06
L-----DSaviq, what knowledge do I need to develop a Lens/Scope for Ubuntu TV?08:07
SaviqL-----D, scratch the "TV" from that sentence and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses08:09
ernstpI'm curious about the "real" TV part of Ubuntu TV, ie DVB/DVR stuff09:16
ernstpThe program guide looked very similary to MythTV09:17
ernstpIs the plan to use the mythtv backend? Or maybe Gnome DVB daemon?09:17
popeythe program guide was mostly a mockup09:23
popeyno decision has been made about that, but re-using existing code like mythtv makes sense09:23
mhall119L-----D: actually most ARM chips can natively execute a subset of Java bytecode13:16
mhall119Saviq: Kaleo: http://askubuntu.com/questions/94490/what-is-the-api-for-new-lens-features-in-the-ubuntu-tv-alpha/94608#9460813:45
mhall119Saviq: I posted a response, just wanted to make sure I was accurate13:51
Saviqwe didn't get nor introduce anything new to the lenses13:51
mhall119Saviq: is there any chance we can get a blog post or something about how the demo was built, what was working and what was just for show, etc?13:54
mhall119either from you or someone else involved13:55
Saviqmhall119, might make sense, we'll definitely talk about that13:55
mhall119cool, thanks13:57
mhall119oh, an interview with pete goodall13:59
L-----Da Team Blog will better14:00
popeymhall119: where?14:02
mhall119popey: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/2697982/interview-ubuntu-tv-pete-goodall14:07
mhall119\o/ about 10 minutes in he talks about all of the discussions we've had in here over the last month or two14:12
nerochiaromhall119: in fact most of the stuff in the demo isn't lenses at all, except for the coverflow list of movies14:16
nerochiaromhall119: the stuff mentioned in the question on askubuntu is all picking up data directly from fake data sources14:17
mhall119nerochiaro: that's what I figured, just wanted to make sure I wasn't telling them wrong14:17
nerochiaromhall119: answer sounds good to me14:17
mhall119this project is making be think about building an HTPC again...14:18
mhall119popey: what email do you use for G+?14:19
mhall119I'd like to add you as a manager for the Ubuntu TV page14:19
nerochiaromhall119: i know how you feel. i just purchased a REVO yesterday in fact ;)14:19
mhall119heh, a google search for 'REVO' gets me http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-boxee-and-get_iplayer-on-the-acer-aspire-revo/ :)14:21
nerochiaroi got the 3700 but yeah, more or less the same device14:21
nerochiarosounded like a good replacement for my aging htpc so even if i can't run utv on it just yet it's still going to be a good replacement14:22
nerochiaroit consume less, it's quieter14:23
mhall119yes, I may need to get one of those14:23
popeymhall119: my first name dot my last name at gmail dot com14:24
mhall119nerochiaro: it would be nice if there was some 'target dev hardware' for those of us who want to play before OEMs start selling it14:24
mhall119popey: thanks14:24
nerochiaromhall119: for the demo the revo 3700 was the target hardware14:24
mhall119popey: invited14:25
mhall119nerochiaro: will that continue to be the case?  If so, I'd like to be able to advertise it14:25
nerochiaromhall119: i don't know. i guess a lot depends on the feedback we get at CES14:26
mhall119nerochiaro: if we can get some kind of a commitment for community devs before they shell out $300, that would be great14:27
mhall119does the revo support IR remotes like the boxee remote?14:27
mhall119or does the remote itself come with a reciever14:28
nerochiaromhall119: i think it's too early to be recommending hardware, but it's just my personal opinion.14:29
popeythe boxee remote is bluetooth isnt it?14:29
popeyand the revo doesn't have bluetooth built in (mine doesn't anyway) but usb bluetooth dongles are free with breakfast cereal these days14:29
Saviqthe boxee remote is RF, but not bluetooth, AFAIK14:29
Saviqor maybe it is, just that you need the dongle anyway14:30
mhall119popey: looks like it comes witha usb reciever: http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DSM-22-Boxee-Remote/dp/B00480OSVK14:30
popeyeven better14:30
popeythanks for clarifying14:30
mhall119hmmm, $350 for an HTPC, not bad14:30
popeytempted to get one myself14:30
mhall119me too14:30
popeyi chucked an SSD and 4GB RAM in my Revo, flies now ☺14:31
mhall119nerochiaro: can that please be discussed?  It'll be hard to build a community of contributors if we can't tell them what hardware they can use to hack on it14:31
mhall119but I think enough people would invest $35014:33
nerochiaromhall119: certainly, but ask willcooke first, i think he's the most appropriate person to comment on that kind of commitment14:33
mhall119is he in Vegas?14:34
nerochiaroi think so14:34
mhall119ok, I'll try him later then14:34
nerochiaro(i've been on vacation for the past couple weeks, i'm still getting up to speed on who's where ;))14:34
mhall119popey: added to as admin for the facebook page too14:36
popeyWill is indeed in Vegas14:40
* mhall119 wants a naughty cake14:41
MrChrisDruifDo the naughty cakes taste good popey ?14:47
popeythe yellow ones are yum14:47
Saviqmhall119, if the revo would be deemed the target device... no real need to put out any $s14:49
Saviqwe developed it on our laptops, connected to the tv for verification14:50
Saviqbut that's about it14:50
popeyWe're working on getting it built on armel14:50
popeywe have a little problem with the infrastructure which we're working on.14:50
Saviqbut yeah, if ^ pans out, something like a panda board would probably be best to at least test out the performance14:50
MrChrisDruifBut panda is ARMv6 if I remember correctly?14:53
mhall119doesn't really matter what it is, as long as we have something we can point to14:53
davillapanda is armv7/neon14:53
MrChrisDruifAlright, I've been proven wrong before ^_^14:54
tgm4883I'd hope that this is something that is eventually released as an ISO that could be installed on anything14:55
tgm4883or are we just talking REVO as lowest hardware form14:56
MrChrisDruifSeems like a plan tgm488314:56
Saviqtgm4883, "eventually" is really a huge void14:56
popeywe already have an iso which has been tested internally14:56
popeybut it's not something I'd put my name on :D14:56
popeyI'll spin one up which is less sucky if you like14:57
MrChrisDruifWould be nice I think14:57
tgm4883either way, I have a zotac with an atom 330 and ION that I use as a MythTV frontend14:57
tgm4883which sounds similar in hardware to the revo14:57
MrChrisDruifRevo is the same hw I thought14:57
tgm4883could be, I heard it has an atom and ION, but I didn't bother looking at the specs14:58
tgm4883If I find out I'm not total crap at making lenses and scopes AND I have some extra time at work I'll try and start a mythtv scope14:59
tgm4883and with that, off to work15:00
mhall119lenses and scopes aren't difficult, join #ayatana for help on those15:00
nerochiaroespecially lenses in python are quite easy to do15:03
Saviqor vala, too, AFAIK15:05
AlanBellmost (maybe all) of the standard lenses are vala15:05
AlanBellI found it a bit complicated to work on, but that could be because I was working with existing lenses and really wanted a clean starting point15:06
nerochiarotrue that, i just mention python since it's the only thing i tried to use and it was real quick15:06
SaviqI just wasn't sure of the "quite easy" aspect of vala ;)15:06
Saviqnever touched it yet15:06
AlanBellvala compiles down to c which then gets compiled again15:07
AlanBellso you get error reports referencing line numbers in autogenerated c files which is a little confusing, but OK once you understand what is going on and that you shouldn't mess with the .c files15:07
nerochiaroAlanBell: and it's such a joy when it spits out some wrong C ;) (even though it's happening a lot less now that it's more mature)15:07
popeymeh, someone else can spin up an iso, it's more effort than it's worth15:18
mhall119you know you guys did something right with Ubuntu TV, when by far the most frequent complaint is only that the dash background should be darker :)15:35
mhall119498 followers on G+, so close16:13
nerochiaromhall119: how many on fb ?16:19
mhall119don't ask :(16:20
mhall119just follow16:20
mhall119and spread the word, so I have something better to report on that front :)16:20
nerochiaromhall119: ;)16:22
tgm4883facebook :(16:35
popeywe go where the users are ☺16:53
tsdgeoshttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/133518260097999 ?16:54
tsdgeoshttps://www.facebook.com/pages/UbuntuTV/163423337003689 ?16:54
tsdgeoshttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/292073127507356 ?16:55
tsdgeostoo many16:55
tsdgeoshttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/292073127507356 <--- i guess this is the good one?16:55
mhall119gah, I wish Facebook wouldn't let people make multiple pages for the same name16:57
popeywe can get a nice url if more people 'like' it16:58
mhall119I mean, 'like'16:58
popeyget jono to pimp it on the ubuntu facebook page mhall119 and we'll get hundreds in an instant16:59
mhall119popey: good idea16:59
popeyi am sat with him now16:59
popeyright, he's gonna do it now, so we have 9 'likes' at the moment.17:00
popeyhaha, 8617:02
popeyhttps://www.facebook.com/UbuntuTV  is now ours :D17:07
mhall119almost 400 now17:08
popeyRight, off out for our team dinner to celebrate :D17:14
* MrChrisDruif can't watch that interview of Peter Goodall <_<"17:20
tgm4883Since hardware hasn't been worked out yet, I'd like to see something similar to what wagnerrp proposed18:18
tgm4883in case he hasn't said it in here18:18
tgm4883<wagnerrp> put a mounting bay on the back of the tv for some standard form factor i.e. make it something you could stuff any mini-itx system in it. feed power, HDMI, network, and IR (if not provided by the HDMI) and just use it as one of the inputs on the TV. so three years down the line, you want to upgrade the capabilities with a faster system, you arent stuck with an expensive and now antiquated tv18:18
tgm4883I mean, you could certainly ship a TV with this already in it, but make it something that the user could upgrade in the future18:19
MrChrisDruifI had an idea about that in my head already18:20
MrChrisDruifBut I didn't know if Ubuntu/Canonical was going into the hw market18:20
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, that is the ideal situation, but if you need a common hardware platform you could create a STB similar in size to a ROKU, then have the TV have a slot in the back you could slide it into providing all of the connections.18:22
tgm4883That is how I think apple would do an actual TV, unless they really expect people to buy a $2000 TV every 2 years18:22
MrChrisDruifIt was indeed more of a standards idea18:22
MrChrisDruifHaving standards for TV's just like computers would be a huge boon!!18:23
wagnerrpthe consequence is that you can then replace the brains without requiring you to purchase a new $2000 TV every two years18:23
wagnerrpwith TV manufacturers scrambling to find new features to give users a reason to continue purchasing18:23
wagnerrpsuch a thing might be a hard sell18:23
tgm4883wagnerrp, true18:23
tgm4883perhaps they would be willing to produce the pluggable STB box?18:24
MrChrisDruifYeah, would be easier to sell this idea to computer and display manufacturers18:24
MrChrisDruifsettopbox box?18:24
tgm4883thats a much easier thing to swallow for the consumer, generating more smaller sales18:24
tgm4883MrChrisDruif, to go with my NIC card ;)18:24
tgm4883Network Interface Card18:25
wagnerrpnetwork interface card card18:25
wagnerrpset top box box18:25
MrChrisDruifOr as we say in Holland "APK Keuring" which loosely translates into "Generale Periodic Check Check"18:26
MrChrisDruifAPK = MOT18:26
tgm4883I'd definitly like to see both the software and hardware upgradable18:27
mhall119tgm4883: the problem is that so many of the improvements to televisions lately have been in the screens19:14
mhall119you can't turn a non-3d TV into a 3d TV without replacing the screen19:15
mhall119High Def to Ultra Def or 4k, same thing19:15
mhall119LCD to OLED19:15
MrChrisDruifmhall119; it all depends on HOW you'd construct it19:16
wagnerrpthe average consumer isnt going for 3D no matter how much its getting pushed19:16
MrChrisDruifYou'd need to see the hardware parts as separate, just like with a computer19:16
mhall119not yet, everybody bought new HDTVs right before 3d came out19:17
MrChrisDruifwagnerrp; A lot of my friends have got a 3D screen already19:17
wagnerrp4K panels arent going to be of use until we actually get content at that resolution, and the current internet streaming options dont even come close to bluray quality19:17
wagnerrpMrChrisDruif: i dare say a lot of your friends are techies, spending a lot of money for every new gadget that comes out19:18
mhall119MrChrisDruif: what exactly would you want to replace anyway?19:18
mhall119CPU? you're not going to be doing much multi-tasking on a TV19:19
MrChrisDruifwagnerrp; you'd probably be right about that ^_^ but to counter that...they're students19:20
mhall119GPU? It's already doing full 1080p19:20
mhall119network?  Maybe, but the bottleneck if going to be the ISP, not local LAN or WLAN speeds19:20
wagnerrpmhall119: switching out a box would allow a tv to go from current h264 streaming content, to future vp8 streaming content, to whatever h264's replacement will be due in draft in the next year or so19:20
mhall119storage?  That's the only reasonable one, I think, and between cloud and NAS you don't need to touch the tv19:21
wagnerrpprovide more power for future apps, or whatever you may want to do with it19:21
mhall119it's possible, but I don't currently see a market for componet upgrades to TVs19:21
wagnerrpthe point is, computers have been rapidly advancing for decades, TVs really didnt start changing significantly until about 10 years ago19:22
mhall119not without replacing the screen, anyway19:22
wagnerrpat at the moment, the market seems to have largely run out of steam until something replaces bluray and ATSC with higher resolutions19:22
wagnerrpsure, there are new panel techs coming out, but tv manufacturers are advertising "smarts" more than anything else to sell stuff19:23
wagnerrpaccess your network content, access facebook, access twitter, etc...19:23
wagnerrpswap out the smarts with better smarts, rather than having to buy a new tv19:23
imnicholwagnerrp, are you arguing for UbuntuTV as a set-top box?  Or as a modular TV?19:24
mhall119the *only* thing I can definitely see fueling such a market would be replacing console gaming with in-TV gaming19:24
wagnerrpim saying dont stuff it into the TV, requiring a new TV should you want to upgrade its capability19:25
wagnerrphave a modular bay in the TV that you can swap out with something different19:25
wagnerrpsomething like the old expansion bay on the N6419:25
imnicholI don't see any manufacturers wanting to go along with that19:25
mhall119imnichol: not quite set-top, but replacable in the same way19:25
wagnerrpimnichol: yes, thats the problem with the idea19:25
wagnerrpmake the smarts modular, and they lose something they could otherwise use to entice you to a new tv19:26
mhall119basically he's saying a TV that is a docking station19:26
imnicholPresumably Canonical wants to make money, and we want to see Ubuntu have as much adoption as possible; both of those require that UbuntuTV get as large a chunk of the marketshare as possible19:27
mhall119not smart on it's own19:27
imnicholAnd I doubt that a modular TV would be successful in that field19:27
mhall119though I bet if an OEM wanted to ship Ubuntu on such a modular TV, we won't say no ;)19:27
imnicholCorrect mhall119 :)19:28
wagnerrpimnichol: something modular would be advantageous to the consumer, if the consumer understood its purpose... something integrated would be advantageous to the manufacturer, and would allow a slightly slimmer device19:28
mhall119wagnerrp: so basically it's a manufacturer's decision, if they think they can make more money on a modular TV, they'll make that19:28
mhall119but I don't think they can19:28
imnicholwagnerrp, Problem is most consumers don't care enough about that19:29
imnicholThe number of people who want to upgrade their TV is tiny19:29
imnicholMe included19:29
imnicholI just want to buy at TV and not have to worry about it anymore19:29
* mhall119 still has only SD TVs19:29
imnicholmhall119 is a caveman ;)19:29
wagnerrpimnichol: i would say anyone over 40 wants to upgrade their tv19:29
mhall119they're in color!19:29
mhall119imnichol: when I can buy an unlocked Ubuntu HDTV, then I'll upgrade19:30
wagnerrpsomeone who ran that same CRT through VCR, to DVD, possibly Bluray and got their couponed DTAs for the analog shutdown19:30
wagnerrpthis whole throw away and replace with a slightly better model is something that has only existed with TVs for about 10 years19:31
MrChrisDruifmhall119; you are missing some an option here: gaming. Current hardware might quite easily play 1080p without trouble, but what about gaming?19:31
mhall119MrChrisDruif: I specifically said that gaming would do it19:31
MrChrisDruifWoops...missed that in the stream of text ^_^19:31
mhall11919:23 < mhall119> the *only* thing I can definitely see fueling such a market would be  replacing console gaming with in-TV gaming19:31
MrChrisDruifBut that's a taboo currently in Linux in general19:32
mhall119I don't think so19:32
MrChrisDruifGaming in Linux, yes19:33
wagnerrpbut we have tux racer! and that one where you have to isolate bouncing balls!19:33
mhall119it's not taboo, it's just scarce19:33
MrChrisDruifIt's not good atm19:33
mhall119look at the humble indie bundles, those are popular among Linux users19:33
MrChrisDruifNot for serious gaming19:33
MrChrisDruifYes, compared to the other options...it's pretty fun gaming...but have you seen some serious good game for sell like MW3 for Linux?19:34
mhall119it's not taboo, it's a catch2219:35
mhall119no games == no gamers == no games19:35
wagnerrpbasically, these were just musings, coming from experience with the mythtv community19:35
MrChrisDruifThe chicken and the egg problem is what it's also called19:35
wagnerrpright now, one of the cleanest installs you can do would be a slim Atom unit, or mac mini, or mini-itx system in an M350, velcro'd to the back of a TV19:36
MrChrisDruifVESA mounts?19:36
wagnerrpor vesa mounts, but then that prevents you from using those mounts to mount the tv, and sometimes the stand itself uses those mounts19:36
wagnerrpthis would have just been a continuation of that concept, but having it "dock" so you could get rid of the cables, or use very short patch cables19:37
MrChrisDruifSo like I said, integrated would be nice. But in such a way that only the screen needs replacing...or just parts of the hardware19:37
wagnerrpbut you still retain control over the smarts that run the TV, rather than having it be something you may need to "jailbreak" or risk irreparably damaging19:38
wagnerrpdo you turn your TV into a PC, or do you add PC-like capabilities to your TV19:39
MrChrisDruifI think the first19:39
wagnerrpit all comes down to who is actually in control of it19:39
MrChrisDruifWe need standards for that19:41
tgm4883mhall119, further, There aren't many TV's that you can buy anymore that aren't 3D20:03
MrChrisDruiftgm4883; enough in my country20:05
tgm4883I think if the TV was a 1080p screen that supported 3D, that you would be set for quite some time, providing you could upgrade the processing unit20:05
tgm4883the low end units aren't going to have that built in dock anyway20:07
mcbaine1elo ??21:40

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