[00:05] <tgm4883> Saviq, are you handing the DVR type stuff?
[00:05] <tgm4883> I ask, because the next version of MythTV should have this nice service API http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Services_API
[00:06] <Saviq> tgm4883, there wasn't any real evaluation of DVRs, but myth is definitely on the table
[00:07] <tgm4883> Saviq, Other than daily use of Unity, I don't know much about it. I've been reading up on lenses and scopes for the last 30 minutes, is that basically what this will be made out of? (lenses and scopes)
[00:08] <tgm4883> ie. there will be a videos lense, which there could be a mythtv scope for
[00:09] <tgm4883> ah I see you basically answered that with a yes above
[00:09] <tgm4883> sorry just reading backlog :)(
[00:12] <Saviq> tgm4883, it really depends
[00:12] <Saviq> the most integrated approach would probably be with a mythtv scope for the video lens
[00:12] <Saviq> a bit more customized - a separate lens for mythtv
[00:13] <Saviq> and even more custom, if required - just a fullscreen app that will just paint whatever it wants
[00:13] <tgm4883> Saviq, is there plans for a DVR lens?
[00:14] <tgm4883> it just seems that "videos" doesn't encompass everything that a DVR would be expected to do
[00:17] <Saviq> tgm4883, why not?
[00:18] <tgm4883> Saviq, well to me, Video would be for video playback. If I wanted to schedule a recording I don't really think that fits
[00:18] <tgm4883> on the other hand
[00:18] <tgm4883> if I'm searching, I would want it to search though both recorded content, videos, and possibly upcoming recordings
[00:19] <tgm4883> TV guide wouldn't really fit into a video lens IMO
[00:20] <Saviq> tgm4883, that's why we have a separate EPG
[00:21] <Saviq> that's a fairly standard grid
[00:22] <tgm4883> Saviq, ah nice
[00:22] <tgm4883> so maybe videos is the proper place for it (mythTV)
[00:23] <tgm4883> Saviq, is there a target for shipping this? (eg. 12.04)
[00:29] <Saviq> tgm4883, nope
[00:30] <tgm4883> even better, cause the services API isn't going to be done until MythTV 0.25, which is going to miss the 12.04 cut off
[00:30] <tgm4883> ah, hometime
[00:30]  * tgm4883 heads out
[00:30] <Saviq> cheers
[01:01] <jimmy_dean> anybody around?
[01:05] <Saviq> jimmy_dean, it's 2am here, so not for long, but still here
[01:05] <jimmy_dean> Is there much of a community working on UbuntuTV yet?
[01:05] <jimmy_dean> I'd like to contribute
[01:06] <Saviq> did you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing ?
[01:06] <mhall119> Saviq: are you in Budapest?
[01:06] <Saviq> mhall119, yes
[01:06] <mhall119> I figured you were in Vegas
[01:06] <Saviq> mhall119, no, just mgmt went there
[01:06] <Saviq> jimmy_dean, and http://www.ubuntu.com/tv/contributors
[01:07] <jimmy_dean> Saviq, yes I saw that
[01:07] <mhall119> lucky them
[01:07] <Saviq> mhall119, not really, AFAIK
[01:07] <jimmy_dean> not that last link though
[01:07] <Saviq> manning the booth whole day
[01:07] <Saviq> jimmy_dean, best subscribe to the ubuntu-tv list
[01:07] <mhall119> doesn't sound so bad
[01:08] <mhall119> jimmy_dean: we've been discussing Ubuntu TV and playing with mockups around here for about a month
[01:08] <jimmy_dean> Saviq, just did that...ok
[01:08] <mhall119> now that there's some concept code to work on, we'll probably start hacking
[01:08]  * mhall119 needs to brush up on his C++
[01:08] <jimmy_dean> so where did the code that is being demoed at CES come from?
[01:08] <Saviq> it's a proof of concept developed at Canonical
[01:08] <mhall119> jimmy_dean: a small band of crazy hackers inside Canonical
[01:09] <jimmy_dean> ok, I have quite a bit of experience working on software like Ubuntu TV for a living
[01:09] <mhall119> I can only assume they were locked in a small room and force-fed coffee
[01:09] <jimmy_dean> lol
[01:09] <jimmy_dean> and I'd like to put it to some actual good use :)
[01:09] <mhall119> jimmy_dean: the code is up on launchpad, and instructions on the wiki for getting it going
[01:09] <Saviq> mhall119, ok, you seem to be handling it, I'm off, cheers!
[01:10] <mhall119> Saviq: g'night
[01:10] <jimmy_dean> thanks Saviq
[01:10] <jimmy_dean> night
[01:10] <jimmy_dean> mhall119, so neither you nor Saviq work for Canonical?
[01:11] <mhall119> we both do, actually
[01:11] <mhall119> Saviq I believe was one of those crazy coffee-fueled hackers that produced the demo shown at CES
[01:11] <jimmy_dean> oh ok, nice
[01:11] <mhall119> I'm a developer liason, helping people use Ubuntu technology
[01:12] <jimmy_dean> do you enjoy working for Canonical?
[01:12] <mhall119> oh yes, it's an amazing place to work, and you get to work with so many very smart and talented people
[01:13] <jimmy_dean> awesome, I'd really like to work for Canonical as well
[01:13] <jimmy_dean> it does sound quite awesome
[01:13] <mhall119> in what capacity?
[01:13] <jimmy_dean> developer
[01:13] <jimmy_dean> I currently work for a company making software that is very very similar to Ubuntu TV
[01:14] <jimmy_dean> using GStreamer
[01:14] <mhall119> http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/careers lists the current openings, see if something there sounds right for you and send in your application
[01:14] <jimmy_dean> I've actually just applied a few days ago :)
[01:14] <jimmy_dean> haven't heard a thing back yet
[01:14] <mhall119> it can take a while
[01:14] <jimmy_dean> that's what I hear
[01:15] <mhall119> I applied to probably a dozen positions over more than a year before I got hired
[01:15] <jimmy_dean> really, so you can apply to more than one at a time?
[01:15] <mhall119> it's very competative
[01:15] <jimmy_dean> that's ok?
[01:15] <mhall119> yeah, that's fine
[01:15] <jimmy_dean> nice to know, I may apply to another one then
[01:15] <mhall119> if you get an interview, just let the person know you've applied to other positions, but it won't count against you
[01:15] <jimmy_dean> excellent
[01:16] <jimmy_dean> thanks for the tip
[01:16] <mhall119> I had 2 interviews for 2 separate positions when one of them hired me :)
[01:16] <mhall119> no problem
[01:16] <jimmy_dean> well gotta run for the evening, but I hope to be back to contribute and watch the project progress
[04:44] <L-----D> is my understanding correct that UTV is a modified version of unity 2d
[05:03] <tgm4883> L-----D, IIRC, no
[05:03] <tgm4883> I'll have to look though the backlog though for the full answer
[05:05] <L-----D> tgm4883, thanks, so it that true UTV BASED on a modofied version of unity 2d?
[05:06] <tgm4883> L-----D, Saviq	AlanBell, it's running on OpenGL	23:14
[05:06] <tgm4883> Saviq	2d is really a misnomer
[05:07] <tgm4883> that is what was said earlier, take from it what you want
[05:07] <tgm4883> I read it as it's not unity2d, but looking at it again, it's probably based on that
[05:08] <L-----D> hmmm
[07:11] <Saviq> tgm4883, yes it's based off of unity2d, only that it should never have been named 2d
[07:57] <Saviq> L-----D, yes it is based off of unity 2d, under OpenGL
[07:58] <Saviq> the "2d" part of the name does not mean it can't do 3d, it simply was designed to work on 2d
[07:58] <Saviq> initially
[07:58] <L-----D> Saviq, then is there any plan for unity3d?
[07:58] <Saviq> there is no plan for unity2d right now, either
[07:58] <Saviq> it's a concept, that's all
[07:59] <L-----D> Saviq, OK
[08:00] <L-----D> Saviq, but if I want to prepare some dev skills for UTV dev, what would I need
[08:00] <Saviq> there's no plans right now that could tell you that, sorry
[08:01] <L-----D> Saviq, and since UTV also going to run on arm platform, something like Java/JVM based app would not be a good idea?
[08:01] <Saviq> we'll let all of you guys know once we know it
[08:01] <Saviq> L-----D, when is ever a Java/JVM based app a good idea ;P
[08:01] <L-----D> Saviq, ;(
[08:02] <Saviq> L-----D, there's better options to go cross platform
[08:02] <Saviq> but yeah, rather too big of an overhead there
[08:05] <Saviq> but again - there're really no concrete plans right now
[08:06] <L-----D> Saviq, I have a media library and a media server in Java already, I want to connect/show it on UTV
[08:07] <L-----D> Saviq, what knowledge do I need to develop a Lens/Scope for Ubuntu TV?
[08:09] <Saviq> L-----D, scratch the "TV" from that sentence and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
[09:16] <ernstp> I'm curious about the "real" TV part of Ubuntu TV, ie DVB/DVR stuff
[09:17] <ernstp> The program guide looked very similary to MythTV
[09:17] <ernstp> Is the plan to use the mythtv backend? Or maybe Gnome DVB daemon?
[09:23] <popey> the program guide was mostly a mockup
[09:23] <popey> no decision has been made about that, but re-using existing code like mythtv makes sense
[13:16] <mhall119> L-----D: actually most ARM chips can natively execute a subset of Java bytecode
[13:45] <mhall119> Saviq: Kaleo: http://askubuntu.com/questions/94490/what-is-the-api-for-new-lens-features-in-the-ubuntu-tv-alpha/94608#94608
[13:50] <Saviq> eh
[13:51] <mhall119> Saviq: I posted a response, just wanted to make sure I was accurate
[13:51] <Saviq> yeah
[13:51] <Saviq> we didn't get nor introduce anything new to the lenses
[13:51] <Saviq> API
[13:54] <mhall119> Saviq: is there any chance we can get a blog post or something about how the demo was built, what was working and what was just for show, etc?
[13:55] <mhall119> either from you or someone else involved
[13:55] <Saviq> mhall119, might make sense, we'll definitely talk about that
[13:57] <mhall119> cool, thanks
[13:59] <mhall119> oh, an interview with pete goodall
[14:00] <L-----D> a Team Blog will better
[14:02] <popey> mhall119: where?
[14:07] <mhall119> popey: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/10/2697982/interview-ubuntu-tv-pete-goodall
[14:07] <popey> ta
[14:12] <mhall119> \o/ about 10 minutes in he talks about all of the discussions we've had in here over the last month or two
[14:16] <nerochiaro> mhall119: in fact most of the stuff in the demo isn't lenses at all, except for the coverflow list of movies
[14:17] <nerochiaro> mhall119: the stuff mentioned in the question on askubuntu is all picking up data directly from fake data sources
[14:17] <mhall119> nerochiaro: that's what I figured, just wanted to make sure I wasn't telling them wrong
[14:17] <nerochiaro> mhall119: answer sounds good to me
[14:17] <mhall119> cool
[14:18] <mhall119> this project is making be think about building an HTPC again...
[14:19] <mhall119> popey: what email do you use for G+?
[14:19] <mhall119> I'd like to add you as a manager for the Ubuntu TV page
[14:19] <nerochiaro> mhall119: i know how you feel. i just purchased a REVO yesterday in fact ;)
[14:21] <mhall119> heh, a google search for 'REVO' gets me http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-boxee-and-get_iplayer-on-the-acer-aspire-revo/ :)
[14:21] <nerochiaro> i got the 3700 but yeah, more or less the same device
[14:22] <nerochiaro> sounded like a good replacement for my aging htpc so even if i can't run utv on it just yet it's still going to be a good replacement
[14:23] <nerochiaro> it consume less, it's quieter
[14:23] <mhall119> yes, I may need to get one of those
[14:24] <popey> mhall119: my first name dot my last name at gmail dot com
[14:24] <mhall119> nerochiaro: it would be nice if there was some 'target dev hardware' for those of us who want to play before OEMs start selling it
[14:24] <mhall119> popey: thanks
[14:24] <nerochiaro> mhall119: for the demo the revo 3700 was the target hardware
[14:25] <mhall119> popey: invited
[14:25] <popey> ta
[14:25] <mhall119> nerochiaro: will that continue to be the case?  If so, I'd like to be able to advertise it
[14:26] <nerochiaro> mhall119: i don't know. i guess a lot depends on the feedback we get at CES
[14:27] <mhall119> nerochiaro: if we can get some kind of a commitment for community devs before they shell out $300, that would be great
[14:27] <mhall119> does the revo support IR remotes like the boxee remote?
[14:28] <mhall119> or does the remote itself come with a reciever
[14:29] <nerochiaro> mhall119: i think it's too early to be recommending hardware, but it's just my personal opinion.
[14:29] <popey> the boxee remote is bluetooth isnt it?
[14:29] <popey> and the revo doesn't have bluetooth built in (mine doesn't anyway) but usb bluetooth dongles are free with breakfast cereal these days
[14:29] <Saviq> the boxee remote is RF, but not bluetooth, AFAIK
[14:30] <Saviq> or maybe it is, just that you need the dongle anyway
[14:30] <mhall119> popey: looks like it comes witha usb reciever: http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DSM-22-Boxee-Remote/dp/B00480OSVK
[14:30] <popey> even better
[14:30] <popey> thanks for clarifying
[14:30] <mhall119> hmmm, $350 for an HTPC, not bad
[14:30] <popey> tempted to get one myself
[14:30] <mhall119> me too
[14:31] <popey> i chucked an SSD and 4GB RAM in my Revo, flies now ☺
[14:31] <mhall119> nerochiaro: can that please be discussed?  It'll be hard to build a community of contributors if we can't tell them what hardware they can use to hack on it
[14:33] <mhall119> but I think enough people would invest $350
[14:33] <nerochiaro> mhall119: certainly, but ask willcooke first, i think he's the most appropriate person to comment on that kind of commitment
[14:34] <mhall119> is he in Vegas?
[14:34] <nerochiaro> i think so
[14:34] <mhall119> ok, I'll try him later then
[14:34] <nerochiaro> (i've been on vacation for the past couple weeks, i'm still getting up to speed on who's where ;))
[14:36] <mhall119> popey: added to as admin for the facebook page too
[14:39] <popey> thanks
[14:40] <popey> Will is indeed in Vegas
[14:41]  * mhall119 wants a naughty cake
[14:41] <popey> ☺
[14:47] <MrChrisDruif> Do the naughty cakes taste good popey ?
[14:47] <popey> the yellow ones are yum
[14:49] <Saviq> mhall119, if the revo would be deemed the target device... no real need to put out any $s
[14:50] <Saviq> we developed it on our laptops, connected to the tv for verification
[14:50] <Saviq> but that's about it
[14:50] <popey> We're working on getting it built on armel
[14:50] <popey> we have a little problem with the infrastructure which we're working on.
[14:50] <Saviq> but yeah, if ^ pans out, something like a panda board would probably be best to at least test out the performance
[14:53] <mhall119> cool
[14:53] <MrChrisDruif> But panda is ARMv6 if I remember correctly?
[14:53] <mhall119> doesn't really matter what it is, as long as we have something we can point to
[14:53] <davilla> panda is armv7/neon
[14:54] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, I've been proven wrong before ^_^
[14:55] <tgm4883> I'd hope that this is something that is eventually released as an ISO that could be installed on anything
[14:56] <tgm4883> or are we just talking REVO as lowest hardware form
[14:56] <MrChrisDruif> Seems like a plan tgm4883
[14:56] <Saviq> tgm4883, "eventually" is really a huge void
[14:56] <popey> we already have an iso which has been tested internally
[14:56] <popey> but it's not something I'd put my name on :D
[14:57] <popey> I'll spin one up which is less sucky if you like
[14:57] <MrChrisDruif> Would be nice I think
[14:57] <tgm4883> either way, I have a zotac with an atom 330 and ION that I use as a MythTV frontend
[14:57] <tgm4883> which sounds similar in hardware to the revo
[14:57] <MrChrisDruif> Revo is the same hw I thought
[14:58] <tgm4883> could be, I heard it has an atom and ION, but I didn't bother looking at the specs
[14:59] <tgm4883> If I find out I'm not total crap at making lenses and scopes AND I have some extra time at work I'll try and start a mythtv scope
[15:00] <tgm4883> and with that, off to work
[15:00] <mhall119> lenses and scopes aren't difficult, join #ayatana for help on those
[15:03] <nerochiaro> especially lenses in python are quite easy to do
[15:05] <Saviq> or vala, too, AFAIK
[15:05] <AlanBell> most (maybe all) of the standard lenses are vala
[15:06] <Saviq> yup
[15:06] <AlanBell> I found it a bit complicated to work on, but that could be because I was working with existing lenses and really wanted a clean starting point
[15:06] <nerochiaro> true that, i just mention python since it's the only thing i tried to use and it was real quick
[15:06] <Saviq> I just wasn't sure of the "quite easy" aspect of vala ;)
[15:06] <Saviq> never touched it yet
[15:07] <AlanBell> vala compiles down to c which then gets compiled again
[15:07] <AlanBell> so you get error reports referencing line numbers in autogenerated c files which is a little confusing, but OK once you understand what is going on and that you shouldn't mess with the .c files
[15:07] <nerochiaro> AlanBell: and it's such a joy when it spits out some wrong C ;) (even though it's happening a lot less now that it's more mature)
[15:18] <popey> meh, someone else can spin up an iso, it's more effort than it's worth
[15:35] <mhall119> you know you guys did something right with Ubuntu TV, when by far the most frequent complaint is only that the dash background should be darker :)
[16:13] <mhall119> 498 followers on G+, so close
[16:19] <nerochiaro> mhall119: how many on fb ?
[16:20] <mhall119> don't ask :(
[16:20] <mhall119> just follow
[16:20] <mhall119> and spread the word, so I have something better to report on that front :)
[16:22] <nerochiaro> mhall119: ;)
[16:35] <tgm4883> facebook :(
[16:53] <popey> meh
[16:53] <popey> we go where the users are ☺
[16:54] <tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/133518260097999 ?
[16:54] <tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/UbuntuTV/163423337003689 ?
[16:55] <tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/292073127507356 ?
[16:55] <tsdgeos> too many
[16:55] <tsdgeos> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-TV/292073127507356 <--- i guess this is the good one?
[16:57] <mhall119> gah, I wish Facebook wouldn't let people make multiple pages for the same name
[16:58] <popey> well
[16:58] <popey> we can get a nice url if more people 'like' it
[16:58] <mhall119> +1
[16:58] <mhall119> I mean, 'like'
[16:59] <popey> get jono to pimp it on the ubuntu facebook page mhall119 and we'll get hundreds in an instant
[16:59] <mhall119> popey: good idea
[16:59] <popey> i am sat with him now
[17:00] <popey> right, he's gonna do it now, so we have 9 'likes' at the moment.
[17:02] <popey> haha, 86
[17:02] <popey> 96
[17:05] <mhall119> 241
[17:07] <popey> https://www.facebook.com/UbuntuTV  is now ours :D
[17:08] <mhall119> almost 400 now
[17:08] <mhall119> \o/
[17:14] <popey> Right, off out for our team dinner to celebrate :D
[17:15] <mhall119> enjoy
[17:20]  * MrChrisDruif can't watch that interview of Peter Goodall <_<"
[18:18] <tgm4883> Since hardware hasn't been worked out yet, I'd like to see something similar to what wagnerrp proposed
[18:18] <tgm4883> in case he hasn't said it in here
 put a mounting bay on the back of the tv for some standard form factor i.e. make it something you could stuff any mini-itx system in it. feed power, HDMI, network, and IR (if not provided by the HDMI) and just use it as one of the inputs on the TV. so three years down the line, you want to upgrade the capabilities with a faster system, you arent stuck with an expensive and now antiquated tv
[18:19] <tgm4883> I mean, you could certainly ship a TV with this already in it, but make it something that the user could upgrade in the future
[18:20] <MrChrisDruif> I had an idea about that in my head already
[18:20] <MrChrisDruif> But I didn't know if Ubuntu/Canonical was going into the hw market
[18:22] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, that is the ideal situation, but if you need a common hardware platform you could create a STB similar in size to a ROKU, then have the TV have a slot in the back you could slide it into providing all of the connections.
[18:22] <tgm4883> That is how I think apple would do an actual TV, unless they really expect people to buy a $2000 TV every 2 years
[18:22] <MrChrisDruif> It was indeed more of a standards idea
[18:23] <MrChrisDruif> Having standards for TV's just like computers would be a huge boon!!
[18:23] <wagnerrp> the consequence is that you can then replace the brains without requiring you to purchase a new $2000 TV every two years
[18:23] <wagnerrp> with TV manufacturers scrambling to find new features to give users a reason to continue purchasing
[18:23] <wagnerrp> such a thing might be a hard sell
[18:23] <tgm4883> wagnerrp, true
[18:24] <tgm4883> perhaps they would be willing to produce the pluggable STB box?
[18:24] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, would be easier to sell this idea to computer and display manufacturers
[18:24] <MrChrisDruif> settopbox box?
[18:24] <tgm4883> thats a much easier thing to swallow for the consumer, generating more smaller sales
[18:24] <tgm4883> MrChrisDruif, to go with my NIC card ;)
[18:24] <MrChrisDruif> NIC=??
[18:25] <tgm4883> Network Interface Card
[18:25] <wagnerrp> network interface card card
[18:25] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah
[18:25] <wagnerrp> set top box box
[18:26] <MrChrisDruif> Or as we say in Holland "APK Keuring" which loosely translates into "Generale Periodic Check Check"
[18:26] <MrChrisDruif> APK = MOT
[18:27] <tgm4883> I'd definitly like to see both the software and hardware upgradable
[18:27] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[19:14] <mhall119> tgm4883: the problem is that so many of the improvements to televisions lately have been in the screens
[19:15] <mhall119> you can't turn a non-3d TV into a 3d TV without replacing the screen
[19:15] <mhall119> High Def to Ultra Def or 4k, same thing
[19:15] <mhall119> LCD to OLED
[19:15] <mhall119> etc
[19:16] <MrChrisDruif> mhall119; it all depends on HOW you'd construct it
[19:16] <wagnerrp> the average consumer isnt going for 3D no matter how much its getting pushed
[19:16] <MrChrisDruif> You'd need to see the hardware parts as separate, just like with a computer
[19:17] <mhall119> not yet, everybody bought new HDTVs right before 3d came out
[19:17] <MrChrisDruif> wagnerrp; A lot of my friends have got a 3D screen already
[19:17] <wagnerrp> 4K panels arent going to be of use until we actually get content at that resolution, and the current internet streaming options dont even come close to bluray quality
[19:18] <wagnerrp> MrChrisDruif: i dare say a lot of your friends are techies, spending a lot of money for every new gadget that comes out
[19:18] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: what exactly would you want to replace anyway?
[19:19] <mhall119> CPU? you're not going to be doing much multi-tasking on a TV
[19:20] <MrChrisDruif> wagnerrp; you'd probably be right about that ^_^ but to counter that...they're students
[19:20] <mhall119> GPU? It's already doing full 1080p
[19:20] <mhall119> network?  Maybe, but the bottleneck if going to be the ISP, not local LAN or WLAN speeds
[19:20] <wagnerrp> mhall119: switching out a box would allow a tv to go from current h264 streaming content, to future vp8 streaming content, to whatever h264's replacement will be due in draft in the next year or so
[19:21] <mhall119> storage?  That's the only reasonable one, I think, and between cloud and NAS you don't need to touch the tv
[19:21] <wagnerrp> provide more power for future apps, or whatever you may want to do with it
[19:21] <mhall119> it's possible, but I don't currently see a market for componet upgrades to TVs
[19:22] <wagnerrp> the point is, computers have been rapidly advancing for decades, TVs really didnt start changing significantly until about 10 years ago
[19:22] <mhall119> not without replacing the screen, anyway
[19:22] <wagnerrp> at at the moment, the market seems to have largely run out of steam until something replaces bluray and ATSC with higher resolutions
[19:23] <wagnerrp> sure, there are new panel techs coming out, but tv manufacturers are advertising "smarts" more than anything else to sell stuff
[19:23] <wagnerrp> access your network content, access facebook, access twitter, etc...
[19:23] <wagnerrp> swap out the smarts with better smarts, rather than having to buy a new tv
[19:24] <imnichol> wagnerrp, are you arguing for UbuntuTV as a set-top box?  Or as a modular TV?
[19:24] <mhall119> the *only* thing I can definitely see fueling such a market would be replacing console gaming with in-TV gaming
[19:25] <wagnerrp> im saying dont stuff it into the TV, requiring a new TV should you want to upgrade its capability
[19:25] <wagnerrp> have a modular bay in the TV that you can swap out with something different
[19:25] <wagnerrp> something like the old expansion bay on the N64
[19:25] <imnichol> I don't see any manufacturers wanting to go along with that
[19:25] <mhall119> imnichol: not quite set-top, but replacable in the same way
[19:25] <wagnerrp> imnichol: yes, thats the problem with the idea
[19:26] <wagnerrp> make the smarts modular, and they lose something they could otherwise use to entice you to a new tv
[19:26] <mhall119> basically he's saying a TV that is a docking station
[19:27] <imnichol> Presumably Canonical wants to make money, and we want to see Ubuntu have as much adoption as possible; both of those require that UbuntuTV get as large a chunk of the marketshare as possible
[19:27] <mhall119> not smart on it's own
[19:27] <imnichol> And I doubt that a modular TV would be successful in that field
[19:27] <mhall119> though I bet if an OEM wanted to ship Ubuntu on such a modular TV, we won't say no ;)
[19:28] <imnichol> Correct mhall119 :)
[19:28] <wagnerrp> imnichol: something modular would be advantageous to the consumer, if the consumer understood its purpose... something integrated would be advantageous to the manufacturer, and would allow a slightly slimmer device
[19:28] <mhall119> wagnerrp: so basically it's a manufacturer's decision, if they think they can make more money on a modular TV, they'll make that
[19:28] <mhall119> but I don't think they can
[19:29] <imnichol> wagnerrp, Problem is most consumers don't care enough about that
[19:29] <imnichol> The number of people who want to upgrade their TV is tiny
[19:29] <imnichol> Me included
[19:29] <imnichol> I just want to buy at TV and not have to worry about it anymore
[19:29]  * mhall119 still has only SD TVs
[19:29] <imnichol> mhall119 is a caveman ;)
[19:29] <wagnerrp> imnichol: i would say anyone over 40 wants to upgrade their tv
[19:29] <mhall119> they're in color!
[19:30] <mhall119> imnichol: when I can buy an unlocked Ubuntu HDTV, then I'll upgrade
[19:30] <wagnerrp> someone who ran that same CRT through VCR, to DVD, possibly Bluray and got their couponed DTAs for the analog shutdown
[19:31] <wagnerrp> this whole throw away and replace with a slightly better model is something that has only existed with TVs for about 10 years
[19:31] <MrChrisDruif> mhall119; you are missing some an option here: gaming. Current hardware might quite easily play 1080p without trouble, but what about gaming?
[19:31] <mhall119> MrChrisDruif: I specifically said that gaming would do it
[19:31] <MrChrisDruif> Woops...missed that in the stream of text ^_^
[19:31] <mhall119> 19:23 < mhall119> the *only* thing I can definitely see fueling such a market would be  replacing console gaming with in-TV gaming
[19:32] <MrChrisDruif> But that's a taboo currently in Linux in general
[19:32] <mhall119> taboo?
[19:32] <mhall119> I don't think so
[19:32] <wagnerrp> gaming?
[19:33] <MrChrisDruif> Gaming in Linux, yes
[19:33] <wagnerrp> but we have tux racer! and that one where you have to isolate bouncing balls!
[19:33] <mhall119> it's not taboo, it's just scarce
[19:33] <MrChrisDruif> It's not good atm
[19:33] <mhall119> look at the humble indie bundles, those are popular among Linux users
[19:33] <MrChrisDruif> Not for serious gaming
[19:34] <MrChrisDruif> Yes, compared to the other options...it's pretty fun gaming...but have you seen some serious good game for sell like MW3 for Linux?
[19:34] <mhall119> no
[19:35] <mhall119> it's not taboo, it's a catch22
[19:35] <mhall119> no games == no gamers == no games
[19:35] <MrChrisDruif> Yup
[19:35] <wagnerrp> basically, these were just musings, coming from experience with the mythtv community
[19:35] <MrChrisDruif> The chicken and the egg problem is what it's also called
[19:35] <mhall119> yup
[19:36] <wagnerrp> right now, one of the cleanest installs you can do would be a slim Atom unit, or mac mini, or mini-itx system in an M350, velcro'd to the back of a TV
[19:36] <MrChrisDruif> VESA mounts?
[19:36] <wagnerrp> or vesa mounts, but then that prevents you from using those mounts to mount the tv, and sometimes the stand itself uses those mounts
[19:36] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah
[19:37] <wagnerrp> this would have just been a continuation of that concept, but having it "dock" so you could get rid of the cables, or use very short patch cables
[19:37] <MrChrisDruif> So like I said, integrated would be nice. But in such a way that only the screen needs replacing...or just parts of the hardware
[19:38] <wagnerrp> but you still retain control over the smarts that run the TV, rather than having it be something you may need to "jailbreak" or risk irreparably damaging
[19:39] <wagnerrp> do you turn your TV into a PC, or do you add PC-like capabilities to your TV
[19:39] <MrChrisDruif> I think the first
[19:39] <wagnerrp> it all comes down to who is actually in control of it
[19:41] <MrChrisDruif> We need standards for that
[20:03] <tgm4883> mhall119, further, There aren't many TV's that you can buy anymore that aren't 3D
[20:05] <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; enough in my country
[20:05] <tgm4883> I think if the TV was a 1080p screen that supported 3D, that you would be set for quite some time, providing you could upgrade the processing unit
[20:07] <tgm4883> the low end units aren't going to have that built in dock anyway
[21:33] <maxolasersquad> q
[21:35] <MrChrisDruif> Yes?
[21:40] <mcbaine1> elo ??
[21:51] <mhall119> hi