=== funkyHat_ is now known as funkyHat === cgriff is now known as Guest43568 === Guest43568 is now known as cgriff === Laney is now known as Guest22075 === 16SAAJADR is now known as joarj === joarj is now known as CosmicB [07:31] Hm [07:31] I don't see much difference with "Unity 5" [07:53] jane silber thinks ubuntu has open governance and this will help it compete with android on tablets [07:53] if ubuntu had open governance unity wouldn't exist and competing with android wouldn't even be a goal [07:53] this is the same nonsense we heard from nokia about meego [08:06] morning [08:11] aloha [08:14] popey: you there ? :/ [08:21] Morning [08:21] * daubers eats cold pizza for breakfast [08:25] czajkowski: yes [08:25] So I'm down for the RAT thing, dates depending :) [08:25] * MartijnVdS had chocolate cake for breakfast [08:26] Enjoyed it last time [08:26] daubers: RAT thing? Ng Industries? Mr Lee's Greater Hong Kong? Snow Crash? [08:26] MartijnVdS: Real Ale Train [08:26] MartijnVdS: Steam+beer [08:26] Not quite cyberpunk then [08:26] MartijnVdS: http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT [08:27] daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash#Rat_Things [08:27] daubers: oooh! [08:27] I see [08:30] Dude! We could have a geeknic IN ONE OF THE CODEBREAKING HUTS AT BLETCHLEY!!!!!! [08:30] http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/ [08:30] popey: shiney [08:30] http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/group.rhtm "Your Group can relax and dine in the area dedicated to them for the day, either in one of the iconic Codebreaking Huts" [08:31] popey: I have Google's mapsgl enabled as well, but that's not quite spherical [08:31] popey: Wow that page is FAST [08:31] yeah, and the detail is impressive [08:32] (some) images are least least 3 years old though [08:32] The new flats next to mine aren't finished on it :) [08:37] * daubers wonders if his revised house offer will be accepted or not [08:37] I suspect not... [09:15] Haha, nice cloak [09:16] hahaha [09:21] cross post, but does anyone know in ubuntu 11.10, classic, how to add items to the Panel, I no longer get an option on right click? [09:25] daubers: where bouts? [09:32] mattt: Thatcham again [09:37] Morning everyone. [09:42] Morning [09:42] daubers: good luck with that! [09:43] Silly ThunderBird - using N to move to the next unread email doesn't clear the notification bar icon [09:44] lots of things thunderbird doesn't do [09:44] doesn't remember the state of threaded vs. unthreaded view [09:44] work for more than 24 hours since later versions :( [09:45] i have it open for days [09:45] it still has that horrible tabs thing [09:45] i never use the tabs [09:45] I can't find a way to get rid of them [09:45] well, i do if i want to remember to do something, i leave a mail open in a tab [09:45] popey: mybe it's my profile. it literally breaks every single night since upgrading from v3 [09:45] "oh you clicked on something, I'll open some random emailsin tabs" [09:45] it's just shit [09:45] it doesnt do that here [09:45] i open mails in the pane [09:46] only get tabs if I double click mails [09:46] it's actually a chore to use [09:46] gordonjcp: Been using TB for years... Nothing major wrong with it IMHO. Try reporting bugs if you find any. [09:46] * popey doesn't observe the behaviour gordonjcp does [09:47] TheOpenSourcerer: they may not be bugs, it appears to be designed that way [09:47] if I'm on my desktop I just use mutt [09:51] why did Ubuntu switch away from Evolution anyway/ [09:52] it's still crap but it's nowhere near as unpleasant to use as Thunderbird [09:52] gordonjcp: do you have the preview pane turned on? press f8 if it isn't [09:52] AlanBell: yes, but it doesn't work properly [09:52] evolution used to crash multiple times per day for me even with a clean profile [09:52] i.e. not fit for purpose [09:52] oimon: much the same as thunderbird then [09:53] gordonjcp: thunderbird is actually stable for me [09:53] gordonjcp: also it doesn't eat all my RAM [09:53] gordonjcp: I hardly ever double click a mail to put it in a tab [09:53] ah, Unity eats all my ram to begin with [09:53] gordonjcp: i reckon if i started afresh my TB would be OK...but i've got a lot of stored config in there [09:53] 2G of RAM, 2G of swap, both full [09:54] 11215 alan 20 0 912m 149m 39m S 0 1.9 1:42.55 thunderbird-bin [09:54] 11257 alan 20 0 1391m 612m 77m S 3 7.9 12:07.13 firefox [09:54] lolfox [10:04] Happy Friday, people! :D [10:06] YES! [10:07] Rally ends today [10:08] * bigcalm sips his Darjeeling in happiness [10:10] \o/ Darjeeling [10:10] [Jono Bacon] Experimenting With Email - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/13/experimenting-with-email/ [10:15] unity certainly causes the weirdos to wake up. look at the comments on this blog post http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/12/testing-required-unity-ppa/ [10:16] http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2491 # bwuhahahaha [10:16] * daubers puts an urgent access request into the DC [10:16] stupid load balancer [10:17] Going to the big smoke on Wednesday next week [10:17] Any tips for survival? [10:18] gas mask? [10:19] Not sure what message that would be putting across to the natives [10:22] bigcalm: "Are you my mummy?" [10:22] Oh my. What a great episode that was [10:23] heh [10:23] it was a double wasnt it? === lan3y is now known as Laney [10:24] popey: it was [10:24] You're right, it was [10:24] First one with Captain Jack [10:25] * daubers goes to reading [10:25] reading or Reading [10:26] http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/ fails on firefox and chrome on my machine :( [10:27] Works in Chrome on mine [10:27] oimon: which video driver do you use? [10:28] Works for me in Chromium [10:29] MartijnVdS: intel [10:29] intel here too [10:29] maybe i need to restart my browser [10:29] and run updates [10:30] hmm firefox 5??? [10:31] 5? not 9 or 10? [10:32] thought i had a repo to update ff [10:32] must have been when i stopped using ff [10:32] which repo is the one for ff latest stable? [10:35] the main repo :) [10:35] in 10.04 LTS? [10:35] not atm [10:37] !info firefox natty [10:37] firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 9.0.1+build1-0ubuntu0.11.04.1 (natty), package size 14946 kB, installed size 29780 kB [10:38] !info firefox lucid [10:38] firefox (source: firefox): safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 3.6.24+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.04.1 (lucid), package size 11153 kB, installed size 30064 kB [10:38] !info firefox maverick [10:38] firefox (source: firefox): safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 3.6.24+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.10.1 (maverick), package size 11130 kB, installed size 30000 kB [10:39] well there is the mozillateam ppa [10:39] https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable [10:40] Aimed at Lucid and Maverick users who want to use a modern browser which starts faster than you can brew your morning coffee [10:41] ah cheers...i had a few to choose from but they didn't have v9...this one looks good [10:42] i wonder why i disabled it a few months ago to replace with the ubuntu mozilla seucrity one [10:43] do-release-upgrade disables PPAs as well [10:44] debating whether to upgrade to 12.04 in a few months..i've enjoyed lucid on this work pc for 2 years [10:44] however ubuntu one doesn't work properly and a few other issues [10:45] need to choose a DE by then [10:54] the good news is i'm on ff v9 ..the bad news is "Unfortunately, there's a WebGL compatibility problem. [10:54] You may want to check your system settings." [10:57] morning all [10:58] czajkowski: prod how you doin' [10:58] good morning veryone, [10:58] brobostigon: morning [10:58] morning davmor2 [11:02] Hello [11:03] Morning s-fox [11:03] Hello DJones , how are you? :-) [11:04] Not bad thanks, you ok? [11:04] Yes thank you, job hunting. [11:04] Spectacular failure lastnight. Was looking for a job in Paris...so I aplpied for one in san francisco [11:05] morning s-fox [11:05] Hey davmor2 , everything good your way? [11:06] s-fox: Yeah I'm good thanks [11:06] Terrific. [11:08] s-fox: You know that the tectonic plates moved so significantly apart that paris and San Francisco aren't next door to each other right? [11:09] Yeah, I know davmor2. France France, San France, San Francisco [11:09] * s-fox will stick with that logic flow ;-) [11:11] I was in san francisco last year for a few days. Wonderful place :-) [11:18] s-fox: the weather there is spectactular [11:18] It sure is something [11:20] * oimon has a minecraft question [11:21] looking for a spare PC to give my nephew to run minecraft server for his mates. is a crappy CPU, with 4GB RAM better choice than better (but still quite slow CPU) and 2GB RAM? [11:21] or neither? [11:23] how many people will play on it? [11:24] I have run a server for ~8 people on a 1.6GHz atom with 4GB RAM [11:26] i reckon just his school mates so ~8 [11:26] it would be a p4 3.2ghz processor i think on the 2gb, but the 4gb box would have a sempron 1.8ghz which is afwul [11:40] i assume minecraft server can be run headless on a server install? [11:40] I think so [11:42] oimon: Yeah - there's a juju charm that has it running headless on Amazon EC2 [11:42] who made it so cold? [11:42] oimon: I looked at running a server, the biggest issue seems to be the broadband upload speed [11:42] DJones: oh. even for low numbers? [11:43] oimon: http://canihostaminecraftserver.com/ Have a look at that [11:43] oimon: it's about 30KB/s (240kbps) per user. [11:44] hey thats useful [11:44] the bandwidth is more limitation than RAM [11:45] Seems to need a 3M upload speed to host 9 players [11:45] 3Mb [11:45] VM then [11:45] Yeah. I wish ISPs would start being a little more sensible about their upstreams. our 22:0.9 (mbps) is silly. [11:46] Wonder what the upload speed will be once we're moved to 60mb down [11:46] they want customers to be consumers, not producers :) [11:46] oimon: if you're willing to pay a little bit of money, you can just host it on Amazon. Takes about a second to start a MC server with the juju charm. [11:46] * MartijnVdS is waiting for 100/100 [11:46] 500/500* [11:46] Oli: it's more for the lad to get his fngers dirty with linux on a home pc :) [11:47] you can host a maximum of 180 players [11:47] slight change of subject...http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/microsoft-to-prevent-linux-booting-on-arm-hardware/ "Disabling Secure boot MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems. [11:52] I suppose they could justify that by claiming that ARM systems are likely to be embedded systems or phones, and that the carriers / media cartels made them do it... [11:53] ARM systems won't run XP is probably more to the point [11:53] But really, that's begging for an antitrust action unless they add "MUST be able to import other signing keys into the BIOS from the UEFI interface" [11:54] The chilling effect of Secure Boot is still there - by default, systems will be shipping in a state that means you have to tinker in the BIOS to get them to boot a LiveCD [11:54] Which makes OSs other than Windows that much less accessible [12:08] can someone explain why people are shitting their pants over Win8 ARM having a locked bootloader? [12:08] 95% of ARM devices have locked bootloaders [12:08] citation needed [12:09] htc and asus reversed their policy [12:09] ever heard of "iphone" or "ipad"? they're quite popular [12:09] oimon: they reversed their policy, but lots of devices still have locked bootloaders [12:10] it's not mandated by google though [12:10] which MS are doing [12:10] oimon: also, every ARM SOC is so different from other SOCs that it needs an entirely separate kernel build [12:10] "reversed" their policy - unlocked bootloader cancels your warranty [12:10] for some strange reason they can't make it like PCs (more uniform) [12:11] so microsoft are essentially banning cyanogenmod on w8 tablets. it's not a freaking right. [12:12] 12:10:00 < oimon> it's not mandated by google though [12:12] yeah it is [12:13] thats exactly why oems lock their bootloaders, to get the google badge of goodness [12:14] hmm..http://julianyap.com/2012/01/03/locked-bootloaders-in-android-devices-are-required-to-support-google-drm.html [12:15] Again DRM [12:15] Will canonical require bootloader-locking on Ubuntu tablets/TVs/etc.? [12:15] it's fine when google does it. when microsoft does it OMG IT'S WORSE THAN HITLER [12:16] MartijnVdS: no idea === georgios is now known as GiorgioShooter [12:17] it's not fine when google does it. [12:17] it's not fine when anyone does it. [12:18] LjL, you might think that, but that's not the way anyone reacts. [12:18] LjL, when microsoft does it it's pure satanism. when anyone else does it, oh look kitten pics on reddit! [12:18] well that's your impression, mine is different [12:18] LjL, i'll note there's been no coverage of the windows 8 logo program requirement that x86/64 MUST have secure boot DISABLED (i.e. allow multiple oses) [12:19] you can't get a windows 8 sticker on your x86 hardware unless it boots non-win8 oses [12:19] of course, they fear antitrust on x86 [12:19] but nobody cares about that change, because it doesn't fit the narrative [12:20] it is in the same article [12:20] heh [12:20] it is in the same paragraph of the certification guidelines [12:20] AlanBell, sure. what did oimon quote, and what did everyone else respond to? [12:21] and awilkins flat-out ignored it [12:22] to be accurate for the logo it must support secure boot, and secure boot must be enabled, but a physically present user must be able to disable it [12:22] everyone loves talking about "the chilling effects of secure boot" now. old debian cd doesn't work on uefi laptop? secure boot! every pc FOR DECADES has had hard disk first in boot order? secure boot! [12:22] i think you're talking nonsense now. [12:22] yeah, we should stop being inaccurate and misinformed [12:23] AlanBell: Where's the fun in thast [12:24] it is however good to raise awareness of these issues while policy is being formed [12:24] rather than have to work around 2 years later because nobody piped up in the beginning [12:24] which is why canonical and redhat are on the uefi steering group etc. [12:25] I was under the impression that to get a "Designed for Window 8" badge meant you had to have Secure Boot on by default... could you cite the document that states the opposite, directhex? [12:25] not a whole heap we can influence by chattering on IRC about it [12:25] know what's going to be a bigger problem? utterly broken UEFI implementations [12:25] mjg59 is bricking several motherboards a week by following the spec [12:25] this is true [12:26] How is that unexpected though [12:26] We've known firmware writers are shit at what they do for ages [12:26] directhex, The paragraph in the article states that it must be possible to disable it, which is very welcome, but says nothign about it's default state (aprt from implying that it must be secure boot == on because it insists that it must be possible to disable it) [12:26] oh, don't make me tell you off for swearing people [12:27] MartijnVdS, people will blame it on secure boot. they already *are* blaming it on secure boot [12:27] because that's the narrative [12:28] My current mobo has EFI and I confess I found it unintuitive and annoying after decades of non-GUI BIOS interfaces [12:28] And it doesn't start up any faster than old BIOS, so what's the point? [12:28] awilkins, how big is your hard disk? [12:29] directhex, 2TB [12:29] Biggus Diskus [12:29] looks like dell are out of 2TB drives...my saved quote is now invalid due to removal of 1tb and 2tb drives from the config options [12:29] awilkins, know why bigger drives aren't common or popular? [12:29] directhex, Because old BIOS doesn't support them [12:29] awilkins, so there's one part of your "what's the point" [12:30] directhex, But... is there a reason that old BIOS can't be changed to support them? Is it necessary to replace it wholesale with something new? (I don't know... but it's software, after all) [12:30] yeah a few BIOS "barriers" have been removed in the past [12:31] awilkins, "removed" is such a strong term [12:31] awilkins, BIOS assumes MBR. MBR has the 2T limit [12:32] moving forward is a good thing, EFI is a good thing, secure boot is a good feature (and potential market distorting problem) [12:32] awilkins, BIOS has no interest in disks with other layout tables, and isn't sophisticated enough to do better [12:32] So could you make a BIOS that also does (GPT?) [12:32] awilkins, as far as BIOS is concerned, you're on a 16-bit 186 [12:32] if you were to fix BIOS you would come up with EFI [12:33] or openfirmware [12:33] or anything that isn't BIOS [12:33] BIOS is 100% tied into 186 [12:33] (what is even a 186)? [12:34] Heh, I'm so totally guilty, as a software developer, of the "This isn't very good, let's completely replace it with something better" thing [12:34] (although it's COMPLETELY TRUE of my current project, ahem) [12:34] LjL, the precursor to 286 and 386 [12:35] The 80186 would have been a natural successor to the 8086 in personal computers. However, because its integrated hardware was incompatible with the hardware used in the original IBM PC, the 80286 was used as the successor instead in the IBM PC/AT. [12:37] There's an interesting snippet I didn't know "UEFI requires the firmware and operating system to be size-matched; i.e. a 64-bit UEFI implementation can only boot a 64-bit UEFI operating system." [12:37] :| [12:37] So will 32-bit Windows die on standard hardware with Windows 8? [12:38] i don't care about 32-bit Windows [12:38] i care about a lot of nifty little OS's that are 32-bit only :( [12:38] anyway maybe it's possible to chain a bootloader capable of loading 32-bit stuff? [12:38] Presumably UEFI can still boot the boring-old-normal way for 32-bit OS [12:38] Time for a 64-bit FreeDOS [12:39] Just can't SecureBoot a 32-bit OS from a 64-bit UEFI ? [12:43] yay, finally ia32-libs on Precise [12:45] LjL: Why do you need ia32-libs precise supports multiarch better that oneiric did [12:46] davmor2: skype [12:47] LjL: yes so from the command line you do sudo apt-get install skype:i386 and no need for ia32-libs [12:47] davmor2: from what repository? i got the skype package from skype.com [12:48] LjL: Partners off the top of my head [12:48] not sure it's in Precise's partner yet [12:48] anyway ia32-libs depends on ia32-libs-multiarch now [12:49] so i'm guessing same difference [12:50] oh well [12:58] rhythmbox really isn't very good, is it? [12:58] rhythmbox is super awesome! so i'm told [12:59] just about everything I've tried to play has resulted in a dialogue box popping up with some message about "Python needs additional plugins to play this content type" and a progress bar shuttling backwards and forwards [12:59] it does this for about ten seconds, closes the dialogue box, then just sits there [13:00] i tried playing a dvd with vlc the other day and it kept stuttering :( [13:01] had to use mplayer instead but didn't know the keys since it's a gui [13:01] well [13:01] it can't cope with SomaFM [13:02] soma is AAC stream [13:02] have you got gstreamer plugins good, bad and ugly? [13:03] oh, and if it can't play it, it deletes it from the list of streams [13:03] ah [13:03] ahem [13:03] if it can't play a *file* it deletes the file, too [13:04] so not only is rhythmbox not only an ineffective music player, it's actually a pretty nasty piece of malware [13:04] gordonjcp: wut? that sounds like a horrible bug [13:04] yeah, I'm not sure how I triggered that [13:05] it's not doing it now [13:05] but it *was* doing it because it's deleted a couple of albums of MP3s [13:07] http://old.nabble.com/Rhythmbox-quietely-deletes-files-td33064922.html [13:09] in the unity launcher it shows little arrows to the left of the icon to indicate if you have several windows open, but it only does a maximum of three. I found out today that this is by design and not a bug. One, Two, Lots. [13:10] AlanBell: ugh [13:10] it just gets worse and worse [13:10] I can see the problem with an unending number of little arrows [13:11] A number of 2 or more would work [13:11] sure but why not mark the 3rd one in a special colour (for example) if it means ">3" instead of "#" [13:11] 3 [13:12] yeah, I have 17 terminal windows open it seems, and 3 little arrows. [13:12] 17 little arrows would not be ideal [13:13] "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong" [13:13] [13:13] * daubers doesn't really see the problem.... [13:13] MartijnVdS: wtf [13:14] gordonjcp: I'm assuming here [13:14] MartijnVdS: I usually have five or six terminal windows open at any time [13:14] MartijnVdS: so are we to assume that Ubuntu 12.10 is going to just be capable of running one app at a time, like Mac System 6 [13:14] I don't either ; TBH I would be fine with 1 arrow for one and two for many [13:14] gordonjcp: Yes! [13:14] since they seem to be really keen to pull in all the other misfeatures of early Mac OS [13:14] You're going to have to choose anyway, the choosing part of the UI will show you how many you have [13:15] You double click, and it shows you scaled thumbnails of all of that kind of app anyway [13:15] what I would like is to right click on the terminal icon in the launcher and get in the quicklist all 17 window titles to choose from [13:16] "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husing gimp [13:16] AlanBell, That would be nice - also in GNOME 2 I always wanted it to be like Windows - each entry in the list being a proper Window menu in itself [13:16] So you could right click, and then right click AGAIN on the app window to close, maximise, etc [13:17] Or do operations on all of them [13:17] my window list is a row of dots. [13:17] even on a 1920 wide pixel monitor [13:17] awilkins: in Gnome 2 by default it "stacked" window buttons in the taskbar if there was more than of them [13:17] I *hated* that feature [13:18] gordonjcp, Whereas I configured it to do it all the time, even if it was just 2 windows [13:18] particularly since every update seemed to turn it back on [13:18] * daubers still doesn't see the problem [13:18] * daubers must be doing it wrong [13:18] gordonjcp, Different strokes, I can see how some people dislike that [13:19] My biggest complaint about Unity (and probably GNOME in general) is the "one size fits all" philosophy, coupled with the inability to reconfigure it [13:19] awilkins: That's changing [13:19] The removal of all but the most simple configuration utilities from Oneiric really peeved me [13:19] gnome and unity are both irrelevant now [13:20] they're so far removed from what any sane person would call usable [13:20] can you imagine trying to explain Unity to a non-technical person? [13:20] My grey-haired old mum seemed to be alright [13:20] I suppose she was a legal secretary for most of her career and thus actually used computers though [13:21] Now I wonder what she would have made of Vim... [13:21] Would probably have liked it, in the long run [13:21] awilkins: well my mum has been using computers for quite a while now [13:21] gordonjcp: My mum prefers unity to old gnome [13:21] awilkins: she wants rid of Ubuntu on her desktop because Unity is just to horrible to use [13:21] she found old gnome confusing [13:22] So ; we've proven that you can find an anecdote to support lots of positions [13:22] doesn't really get us anywhere, does it? [13:23] Canonicals user testing seemed to suggest that "average" users prefered something of the unity style [13:23] The advantage of course being that this isn't Windows so we can choose the shell we like the most ; the disadvantage being that this splinters the effort directed to making each one better [13:23] what I particularly find annoying is pulseaudio [13:23] it's an unmitigated disaster [13:24] I never, ever want sound to come out of the internal speaker on my PC [13:24] meh, I've not had any problems with pulse for ages, even had it playing stuff across networks happily recently [13:24] I never, ever want more than one app to play sound at once [13:24] gordonjcp, I would think you are in a distinct minority there [13:24] awilkins: what, I want sound to play on my external speakers? [13:25] if it would even let me play through the line out socket that would do [13:25] gordonjcp, Only wanting one app to have sound [13:25] [13:25] *anyone* who uses a PC for playing back music? [13:25] gordonjcp, Most people will e.g. want to listen to music AND be able to hear IM alerts [13:25] right, maybe [13:26] but it would be nice to have the option to shut all of the stupid beeps and bongs up [13:26] talking of beeps... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hs5ChcYbaNU [13:26] also, pulse makes it damn near impossible to use jack [13:26] made me lol today [13:26] who needs jack anyway [13:26] MartijnVdS: anyone using a computer for music [13:26] gordonjcp, Do per-application mutes persist across app instances in Pulse (as configured by the sound preferences) ? [13:26] awilkins: no idea [13:26] gordonjcp: I play music all the time, never needed jack [13:26] * awilkins tries that [13:27] MartijnVdS: you're presumably not recording music [13:27] gordonjcp: I am not. [13:27] in my Mandrake 7 days I remember listening to music for a couple of hours, and when it finished playing I closed the player and got 200-odd IM alert noises [13:27] acperkins: yeah lol [13:27] MartijnVdS: Ubuntu used to be really popular for running music software [13:27] MartijnVdS: now it's pretty much impossible [13:27] acperkins: i gather it was related to Alsa and OSS [13:27] gordonjcp: so fix jack/pulse to talk to each other? [13:27] why? [13:28] pulse takes over the soundcard [13:28] which is good, usually [13:28] MartijnVdS: unless you want to use it [13:28] oimon: I guess so now, both using OSS and it was just queueing the sounds. I was a newbie then and completely inexperienced, my fix was to turn of IM sounds. [13:28] gordonjcp: I can use it fine with pulse [13:28] MartijnVdS I guess you could have pulse just present as a jack source that you could then route [13:28] acperkins: i got it on fedora at the time too [13:28] gordonjcp: video conferencing too.. great with pulse! [13:28] gordonjcp, Ok, so application-specific mixer levels do persist across instances - but you can only see the application in the preferences while it's playing [13:29] does everyone seem in a bit of bad mood today? [13:29] awilkins: I also can't choose which sound device to play through, though [13:29] MartijnVdS: I'm not interested in video conferencing, though [13:29] MartijnVdS: I'm interested in sound, and pulseaudio stops me from using sound [13:29] gordonjcp, I don't seem to have a major problem with that (minor problem was that it "slipped" to my HDMI device which I have nothing plugged into) [13:29] awilkins: okay, how do you do it? [13:30] * brobostigon is a in a bad mood because he is ill, [13:30] gordonjcp, Sound preferences, "OUtput" tab, "Choose a device for sound output:", click on a device [13:30] awilkins: yup, I've selected my USB external codec [13:30] it's *still* playing all sounds through the internal speaker [13:31] brobostigon: i'm grouchy cos i have nasty cold too. off sick for a few days but have gone back to work cos i feel bad about it [13:31] Sounds like a bug, rather than a lack of feature.. I feel your pain, I had to fix a kernel bug to get the audio on my previous motherboard working properly [13:31] * daubers digs out his laptop and finds some music to hack along too [13:31] oimon: ah, not good, ok. [13:31]