[07:31] <MartijnVdS> Hm
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> I don't see much difference with "Unity 5"
[07:53] <ali1234> jane silber thinks ubuntu has open governance and this will help it compete with android on tablets
[07:53] <ali1234> if ubuntu had open governance unity wouldn't exist and competing with android wouldn't even be a goal
[07:53] <ali1234> this is the same nonsense we heard from nokia about meego
[08:06] <popey> morning
[08:11] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:14] <czajkowski> popey: you there ? :/
[08:21] <daubers> Morning
[08:21]  * daubers eats cold pizza for breakfast
[08:25] <popey> czajkowski: yes
[08:25] <daubers> So I'm down for the RAT thing, dates depending :)
[08:25]  * MartijnVdS had chocolate cake for breakfast
[08:26] <daubers> Enjoyed it last time
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> daubers: RAT thing? Ng Industries? Mr Lee's Greater Hong Kong? Snow Crash?
[08:26] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Real Ale Train
[08:26] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Steam+beer
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> Not quite cyberpunk then
[08:26] <daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash#Rat_Things
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> daubers: oooh!
[08:27] <daubers> I see
[08:30] <daubers> Dude! We could have a geeknic IN ONE OF THE CODEBREAKING HUTS AT BLETCHLEY!!!!!!
[08:30] <popey> http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: shiney
[08:30] <daubers> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/group.rhtm "Your Group can relax and dine in the area dedicated to them for the day, either in one of the iconic Codebreaking Huts"
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have Google's mapsgl enabled as well, but that's not quite spherical
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: Wow that page is FAST
[08:31] <popey> yeah, and the detail is impressive
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> (some) images are least least 3 years old though
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> The new flats next to mine aren't finished on it :)
[08:37]  * daubers wonders if his revised house offer will be accepted or not
[08:37] <daubers> I suspect not...
[09:15] <bigcalm> Haha, nice cloak
[09:16] <gordonjcp> hahaha
[09:21] <AdvoWork> cross post, but does anyone know in ubuntu 11.10, classic, how to add items to the Panel, I no longer get an option on right click?
[09:25] <mattt> daubers: where bouts?
[09:32] <daubers> mattt: Thatcham again
[09:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
[09:42] <bigcalm> Morning
[09:42] <mattt> daubers: good luck with that!
[09:43] <bigcalm> Silly ThunderBird - using N to move to the next unread email doesn't clear the notification bar icon
[09:44] <gordonjcp> lots of things thunderbird doesn't do
[09:44] <gordonjcp> doesn't remember the state of threaded vs. unthreaded view
[09:44] <oimon> work for more than 24 hours since later versions :(
[09:45] <popey> i have it open for days
[09:45] <gordonjcp> it still has that horrible tabs thing
[09:45] <popey> i never use the tabs
[09:45] <gordonjcp> I can't find a way to get rid of them
[09:45] <popey> well, i do if i want to remember to do something, i leave a mail open in a tab
[09:45] <oimon> popey: mybe it's my profile. it literally breaks every single night since upgrading from v3
[09:45] <gordonjcp> "oh you clicked on something, I'll open some random emailsin tabs"
[09:45] <gordonjcp> it's just shit
[09:45] <popey> it doesnt do that here
[09:45] <popey> i open mails in the pane
[09:46] <popey> only get tabs if I double click mails
[09:46] <gordonjcp> it's actually a chore to use
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> gordonjcp: Been using TB for years... Nothing major wrong with it IMHO. Try reporting bugs if you find any.
[09:46]  * popey doesn't observe the behaviour gordonjcp does
[09:47] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: they may not be bugs, it appears to be designed that way
[09:47] <gordonjcp> if I'm on my desktop I just use mutt
[09:51] <gordonjcp> why did Ubuntu switch away from Evolution anyway/
[09:52] <gordonjcp> it's still crap but it's nowhere near as unpleasant to use as Thunderbird
[09:52] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: do you have the preview pane turned on? press f8 if it isn't
[09:52] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yes, but it doesn't work properly
[09:52] <oimon> evolution used to crash multiple times per day for me even with a clean profile
[09:52] <oimon> i.e. not fit for purpose
[09:52] <gordonjcp> oimon: much the same as thunderbird then
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: thunderbird is actually stable for me
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: also it doesn't eat all my RAM
[09:53] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: I hardly ever double click a mail to put it in a tab
[09:53] <gordonjcp> ah, Unity eats all my ram to begin with
[09:53] <oimon> gordonjcp: i reckon if i started afresh my TB would be OK...but i've got a lot of stored config in there
[09:53] <gordonjcp> 2G of RAM, 2G of swap, both full
[09:54] <popey> 11215 alan      20   0  912m 149m  39m S    0  1.9   1:42.55 thunderbird-bin
[09:54] <popey> 11257 alan      20   0 1391m 612m  77m S    3  7.9  12:07.13 firefox
[09:54] <popey> lolfox
[10:04] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :D
[10:06] <popey> YES!
[10:07] <popey> Rally ends today
[10:08]  * bigcalm sips his Darjeeling in happiness
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> \o/ Darjeeling
[10:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Experimenting With Email - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/13/experimenting-with-email/
[10:15] <oimon> unity certainly causes the weirdos to wake up. look at the comments on this blog post http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/12/testing-required-unity-ppa/
[10:16] <bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2491 # bwuhahahaha
[10:16]  * daubers puts an urgent access request into the DC
[10:16] <daubers> stupid load balancer
[10:17] <bigcalm> Going to the big smoke on Wednesday next week
[10:17] <bigcalm> Any tips for survival?
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> gas mask?
[10:19] <bigcalm> Not sure what message that would be putting across to the natives
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "Are you my mummy?"
[10:22] <bigcalm> Oh my. What a great episode that was
[10:23] <popey> heh
[10:23] <popey> it was a double wasnt it?
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: it was
[10:24] <bigcalm> You're right, it was
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> First one with Captain Jack
[10:25]  * daubers goes to reading
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> reading or Reading
[10:26] <oimon> http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/ fails on firefox and chrome on my machine :(
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> Works in Chrome on mine
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> oimon: which video driver do you use?
[10:28] <bigcalm> Works for me in Chromium
[10:29] <oimon> MartijnVdS: intel
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> intel here too
[10:29] <oimon> maybe i need to restart my browser
[10:29] <oimon> and run updates
[10:30] <oimon> hmm firefox 5???
[10:31] <MartijnVdS> 5? not 9 or 10?
[10:32] <oimon> thought i had a repo to update ff
[10:32] <oimon> must have been when i stopped using ff
[10:32] <oimon> which repo is the one for ff latest stable?
[10:35] <AlanBell> the main repo :)
[10:35] <oimon> in 10.04 LTS?
[10:35] <oimon> not atm
[10:37] <AlanBell> !info firefox natty
[10:38] <oimon> !info firefox lucid
[10:38] <AlanBell> !info firefox maverick
[10:39] <AlanBell> well there is the mozillateam ppa
[10:39] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable
[10:40] <AlanBell> Aimed at Lucid and Maverick users who want to use a modern browser which starts faster than you can brew your morning coffee
[10:41] <oimon> ah cheers...i had a few to choose from but they didn't have v9...this one looks good
[10:42] <oimon> i wonder why i disabled it a few months ago to replace with the ubuntu mozilla seucrity one
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> do-release-upgrade disables PPAs as well
[10:44] <oimon> debating whether to upgrade to 12.04 in a few months..i've enjoyed lucid on this work pc for 2 years
[10:44] <oimon> however ubuntu one doesn't work properly and a few other issues
[10:45] <oimon> need to choose a DE by then
[10:54] <oimon> the good news is i'm on ff v9 ..the bad news is "Unfortunately, there's a WebGL compatibility problem.
[10:54] <oimon> You may want to check your system settings."
[10:57] <davmor2> morning all
[10:58] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod how you doin'
[10:58] <brobostigon> good morning veryone,
[10:58] <davmor2> brobostigon: morning
[10:58] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[11:02] <s-fox> Hello
[11:03] <DJones> Morning s-fox
[11:03] <s-fox> Hello DJones , how are you? :-)
[11:04] <DJones> Not bad thanks, you ok?
[11:04] <s-fox> Yes thank you, job hunting.
[11:04] <s-fox> Spectacular failure lastnight. Was looking for a job in Paris...so I aplpied for one in san francisco
[11:05] <davmor2> morning s-fox
[11:05] <s-fox> Hey davmor2 , everything good your way?
[11:06] <davmor2> s-fox: Yeah I'm good thanks
[11:06] <s-fox> Terrific.
[11:08] <davmor2> s-fox: You know that the tectonic plates moved so significantly apart that paris and San Francisco  aren't next door to each other right?
[11:09] <s-fox> Yeah, I know davmor2. France France, San France, San Francisco
[11:09]  * s-fox will stick with that logic flow ;-)
[11:11] <s-fox> I was in san francisco last year for a few days. Wonderful place :-)
[11:18] <mattt> s-fox: the weather there is spectactular
[11:18] <s-fox> It sure is something
[11:20]  * oimon has a minecraft question
[11:21] <oimon> looking for a spare PC to give my nephew to run minecraft server for his mates. is a crappy CPU, with 4GB RAM better choice than better (but still quite slow CPU) and 2GB RAM?
[11:21] <oimon> or neither?
[11:23] <popey> how many people will play on it?
[11:24] <popey> I have run a server for ~8 people on a 1.6GHz atom with 4GB RAM
[11:26] <oimon> i reckon just his school mates so ~8
[11:26] <oimon> it would be a p4 3.2ghz processor i think on the 2gb, but the 4gb box would have a sempron 1.8ghz which is afwul
[11:40] <oimon> i assume minecraft server can be run headless on a server install?
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> I think so
[11:42] <Oli> oimon: Yeah - there's a juju charm that has it running headless on Amazon EC2
[11:42] <Laney> who made it so cold?
[11:42] <DJones> oimon: I looked at running a server, the biggest issue seems to be the broadband upload speed
[11:42] <oimon> DJones: oh. even for low numbers?
[11:43] <DJones> oimon: http://canihostaminecraftserver.com/ Have a look at that
[11:43] <Oli> oimon: it's about 30KB/s (240kbps) per user.
[11:44] <oimon> hey thats useful
[11:44] <oimon> the bandwidth is more limitation than RAM
[11:45] <DJones> Seems to need a 3M upload speed to host 9 players
[11:45] <DJones> 3Mb
[11:45] <bigcalm> VM then
[11:45] <Oli> Yeah. I wish ISPs would start being a little more sensible about their upstreams. our 22:0.9 (mbps) is silly.
[11:46] <bigcalm> Wonder what the upload speed will be once we're moved to 60mb down
[11:46] <oimon> they want customers to be consumers, not producers :)
[11:46] <Oli> oimon: if you're willing to pay a little bit of money, you can just host it on Amazon. Takes about a second to start a MC server with the juju charm.
[11:46]  * MartijnVdS is waiting for 100/100
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> 500/500*
[11:46] <oimon> Oli: it's more for the lad to get his fngers dirty with linux on a home pc :)
[11:47] <AlanBell> you can host a maximum of 180 players
[11:47] <oimon> slight change of subject...http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/microsoft-to-prevent-linux-booting-on-arm-hardware/ "Disabling Secure boot MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems.
[11:52] <awilkins> I suppose they could justify that by claiming that ARM systems are likely to be embedded systems or phones, and that the carriers / media cartels made them do it...
[11:53] <AlanBell> ARM systems won't run XP is probably more to the point
[11:53] <awilkins> But really, that's begging for an antitrust action unless they add "MUST be able to import other signing keys into the BIOS from the UEFI interface"
[11:54] <awilkins> The chilling effect of Secure Boot is still there - by default, systems will be shipping in a state that means you have to tinker in the BIOS to get them to boot a LiveCD
[11:54] <awilkins> Which makes OSs other than Windows that much less accessible
[12:08] <directhex> can someone explain why people are shitting their pants over Win8 ARM having a locked bootloader?
[12:08] <directhex> 95% of ARM devices have locked bootloaders
[12:08] <oimon> citation needed
[12:09] <oimon> htc and asus reversed their policy
[12:09] <directhex> ever heard of "iphone" or "ipad"? they're quite popular
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> oimon: they reversed their policy, but lots of devices still have locked bootloaders
[12:10] <oimon> it's not mandated by google though
[12:10] <oimon> which MS are doing
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> oimon: also, every ARM SOC is so different from other SOCs that it needs an entirely separate kernel build
[12:10] <directhex> "reversed" their policy - unlocked bootloader cancels your warranty
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> for some strange reason they can't make it like PCs (more uniform)
[12:11] <directhex> so microsoft are essentially banning cyanogenmod on w8 tablets. it's not a freaking right.
[12:12] <popey> 12:10:00 < oimon> it's not mandated by google though
[12:12] <popey> yeah it is
[12:13] <popey> thats exactly why oems lock their bootloaders, to get the google badge of goodness
[12:14] <oimon> hmm..http://julianyap.com/2012/01/03/locked-bootloaders-in-android-devices-are-required-to-support-google-drm.html
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> Again DRM
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> Will canonical require bootloader-locking on Ubuntu tablets/TVs/etc.?
[12:15] <directhex> it's fine when google does it. when microsoft does it OMG IT'S WORSE THAN HITLER
[12:16] <popey> MartijnVdS: no idea
[12:17] <LjL> it's not fine when google does it.
[12:17] <LjL> it's not fine when anyone does it.
[12:18] <directhex> LjL, you might think that, but that's not the way anyone reacts.
[12:18] <directhex> LjL, when microsoft does it it's pure satanism. when anyone else does it, oh look kitten pics on reddit!
[12:18] <LjL> well that's your impression, mine is different
[12:18] <directhex> LjL, i'll note there's been no coverage of the windows 8 logo program requirement that x86/64 MUST have secure boot DISABLED (i.e. allow multiple oses)
[12:19] <directhex> you can't get a windows 8 sticker on your x86 hardware unless it boots non-win8 oses
[12:19] <LjL> of course, they fear antitrust on x86
[12:19] <directhex> but nobody cares about that change, because it doesn't fit the narrative
[12:20] <AlanBell> it is in the same article
[12:20] <LjL> heh
[12:20] <AlanBell> it is in the same paragraph of the certification guidelines
[12:20] <directhex> AlanBell, sure. what did oimon quote, and what did everyone else respond to?
[12:21] <directhex> and awilkins flat-out ignored it
[12:22] <AlanBell> to be accurate for the logo it must support secure boot, and secure boot must be enabled, but a physically present user must be able to disable it
[12:22] <directhex> everyone loves talking about "the chilling effects of secure boot" now. old debian cd doesn't work on uefi laptop? secure boot! every pc FOR DECADES has had hard disk first in boot order? secure boot!
[12:22] <LjL> i think you're talking nonsense now.
[12:22] <AlanBell> yeah, we should stop being inaccurate and misinformed
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Where's the fun in thast
[12:24] <oimon> it is however good to raise awareness of these issues while policy is being formed
[12:24] <oimon> rather than have to work around 2 years later because nobody piped up in the beginning
[12:24] <AlanBell> which is why canonical and redhat are on the uefi steering group etc.
[12:25] <awilkins> I was under the impression that to get a "Designed for Window 8" badge meant you had to have Secure Boot on by default... could you cite the document that states the opposite, directhex?
[12:25] <AlanBell> not a whole heap we can influence by chattering on IRC about it
[12:25] <directhex> know what's going to be a bigger problem? utterly broken UEFI implementations
[12:25] <directhex> mjg59 is bricking several motherboards a week by following the spec
[12:25] <AlanBell> this is true
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> How is that unexpected though
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> We've known firmware writers are shit at what they do for ages
[12:26] <awilkins> directhex, The paragraph in the article states that it must be possible to disable it, which is very welcome, but says nothign about it's default state (aprt from implying that it must be secure boot == on because it insists that it must be possible to disable it)
[12:26] <AlanBell> oh, don't make me tell you off for swearing people
[12:27] <directhex> MartijnVdS, people will blame it on secure boot. they already *are* blaming it on secure boot
[12:27] <directhex> because that's the narrative
[12:28] <awilkins> My current mobo has EFI and I confess I found it unintuitive and annoying after decades of non-GUI BIOS interfaces
[12:28] <awilkins> And it doesn't start up any faster than old BIOS, so what's the point?
[12:28] <directhex> awilkins, how big is your hard disk?
[12:29] <awilkins> directhex, 2TB
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> Biggus Diskus
[12:29] <oimon> looks like dell are out of 2TB drives...my saved quote is now invalid due to removal of 1tb and 2tb drives from the config options
[12:29] <directhex> awilkins, know why bigger drives aren't common or popular?
[12:29] <awilkins> directhex, Because old BIOS doesn't support them
[12:29] <directhex> awilkins, so there's one part of your "what's the point"
[12:30] <awilkins> directhex, But... is there a reason that old BIOS can't be changed to support them? Is it necessary to replace it wholesale with something new? (I don't know... but it's software, after all)
[12:30] <LjL> yeah a few BIOS "barriers" have been removed in the past
[12:31] <directhex> awilkins, "removed" is such a strong term
[12:31] <directhex> awilkins, BIOS assumes MBR. MBR has the 2T limit
[12:32] <AlanBell> moving forward is a good thing, EFI is a good thing, secure boot is a good feature (and potential market distorting problem)
[12:32] <directhex> awilkins, BIOS has no interest in disks with other layout tables, and isn't sophisticated enough to do better
[12:32] <awilkins> So could you make a BIOS that also does (GPT?)
[12:32] <directhex> awilkins, as far as BIOS is concerned, you're on a 16-bit 186
[12:32] <AlanBell> if you were to fix BIOS you would come up with EFI
[12:33] <directhex> or openfirmware
[12:33] <directhex> or anything that isn't BIOS
[12:33] <directhex> BIOS is 100% tied into 186
[12:33] <LjL> (what is even a 186)?
[12:34] <awilkins> Heh, I'm so totally guilty, as a software developer, of the "This isn't very good, let's completely replace it with something better" thing
[12:34] <awilkins> (although it's COMPLETELY TRUE of my current project, ahem)
[12:34] <directhex> LjL, the precursor to 286 and 386
[12:35] <LjL> The 80186 would have been a natural successor to the 8086 in personal computers. However, because its integrated hardware was incompatible with the hardware used in the original IBM PC, the 80286 was used as the successor instead in the IBM PC/AT.
[12:37] <awilkins> There's an interesting snippet I didn't know "UEFI requires the firmware and operating system to be size-matched; i.e. a 64-bit UEFI implementation can only boot a 64-bit UEFI operating system."
[12:37] <LjL> :|
[12:37] <awilkins> So will 32-bit Windows die on standard hardware with Windows 8?
[12:38] <LjL> i don't care about 32-bit Windows
[12:38] <LjL> i care about a lot of nifty little OS's that are 32-bit only :(
[12:38] <LjL> anyway maybe it's possible to chain a bootloader capable of loading 32-bit stuff?
[12:38] <awilkins> Presumably UEFI can still boot the boring-old-normal way for 32-bit OS
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> Time for a 64-bit FreeDOS
[12:39] <awilkins> Just can't SecureBoot a 32-bit OS from a 64-bit UEFI ?
[12:43] <LjL> yay, finally ia32-libs on Precise
[12:45] <davmor2> LjL: Why do you need ia32-libs precise supports multiarch better that oneiric did
[12:46] <LjL> davmor2: skype
[12:47] <davmor2> LjL: yes so from the command line you do sudo apt-get install skype:i386 and no need for ia32-libs
[12:47] <LjL> davmor2: from what repository? i got the skype package from skype.com
[12:48] <davmor2> LjL: Partners off the top of my head
[12:48] <LjL> not sure it's in Precise's partner yet
[12:48] <LjL> anyway ia32-libs depends on ia32-libs-multiarch now
[12:49] <LjL> so i'm guessing same difference
[12:50] <davmor2> oh well
[12:58] <gordonjcp> rhythmbox really isn't very good, is it?
[12:58] <directhex> rhythmbox is super awesome! so i'm told
[12:59] <gordonjcp> just about everything I've tried to play has resulted in a dialogue box popping up with some message about "Python needs additional plugins to play this content type" and a progress bar shuttling backwards and forwards
[12:59] <gordonjcp> it does this for about ten seconds, closes the dialogue box, then just sits there
[13:00] <oimon> i tried playing a dvd with vlc the other day and it kept stuttering :(
[13:01] <oimon> had to use mplayer instead but didn't know the keys since it's a gui
[13:01] <gordonjcp> well
[13:01] <gordonjcp> it can't cope with SomaFM
[13:02] <oimon> soma is AAC stream
[13:02] <oimon> have you got gstreamer plugins good, bad and ugly?
[13:03] <gordonjcp> oh, and if it can't play it, it deletes it from the list of streams
[13:03] <gordonjcp> ah
[13:03] <gordonjcp> ahem
[13:03] <gordonjcp> if it can't play a *file* it deletes the file, too
[13:04] <gordonjcp> so not only is rhythmbox not only an ineffective music player, it's actually a pretty nasty piece of malware
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: wut? that sounds like a horrible bug
[13:04] <gordonjcp> yeah, I'm not sure how I triggered that
[13:05] <gordonjcp> it's not doing it now
[13:05] <gordonjcp> but it *was* doing it because it's deleted a couple of albums of MP3s
[13:07] <AlanBell> http://old.nabble.com/Rhythmbox-quietely-deletes-files-td33064922.html
[13:09] <AlanBell> in the unity launcher it shows little arrows to the left of the icon to indicate if you have several windows open, but it only does a maximum of three. I found out today that this is by design and not a bug. One, Two, Lots.
[13:10] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: ugh
[13:10] <gordonjcp> it just gets worse and worse
[13:10] <AlanBell> I can see the problem with an unending number of little arrows
[13:11] <bigcalm> A number of 2 or more would work
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> sure but why not mark the 3rd one in a special colour (for example) if it means ">3" instead of "#"
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> 3
[13:12] <AlanBell> yeah, I have 17 terminal windows open it seems, and 3 little arrows.
[13:12] <AlanBell> 17 little arrows would not be ideal
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"

[13:13]  * daubers doesn't really see the problem....
[13:13] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: wtf
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm assuming here
[13:14] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I usually have five or six terminal windows open at any time
[13:14] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: so are we to assume that Ubuntu 12.10 is going to just be capable of running one app at a time, like Mac System 6
[13:14] <awilkins> I don't either ; TBH I would be fine with 1 arrow for one and two for many
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Yes!
[13:14] <gordonjcp> since they seem to be really keen to pull in all the other misfeatures of early Mac OS
[13:14] <awilkins> You're going to have to choose anyway, the choosing part of the UI will show you how many you have
[13:15] <awilkins> You double click, and it shows you scaled thumbnails of all of that kind of app anyway
[13:15] <AlanBell> what I would like is to right click on the terminal icon in the launcher and get in the quicklist all 17 window titles to choose from
[13:16] <oimon> "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husing gimp
[13:16] <awilkins> AlanBell, That would be nice - also in GNOME 2 I always wanted it to be like Windows - each entry in the list being a proper Window menu in itself
[13:16] <awilkins> So you could right click, and then right click AGAIN on the app window to close, maximise, etc
[13:17] <awilkins> Or do operations on all of them
[13:17] <oimon> my window list is a row of dots.
[13:17] <oimon> even on a 1920 wide pixel monitor
[13:17] <gordonjcp> awilkins: in Gnome 2 by default it "stacked" window buttons in the taskbar if there was more than <some number> of them
[13:17] <gordonjcp> I *hated* that feature
[13:18] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Whereas I configured it to do it all the time, even if it was just 2 windows
[13:18] <gordonjcp> particularly since every update seemed to turn it back on
[13:18]  * daubers still doesn't see the problem
[13:18]  * daubers must be doing it wrong
[13:18] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Different strokes, I can see how some people dislike that
[13:19] <awilkins> My biggest complaint about Unity (and probably GNOME in general) is the "one size fits all" philosophy, coupled with the inability to reconfigure it
[13:19] <daubers> awilkins: That's changing
[13:19] <awilkins> The removal of all but the most simple configuration utilities from Oneiric really peeved me
[13:19] <gordonjcp> gnome and unity are both irrelevant now
[13:20] <gordonjcp> they're so far removed from what any sane person would call usable
[13:20] <gordonjcp> can you imagine trying to explain Unity to a non-technical person?
[13:20] <awilkins> My grey-haired old mum seemed to be alright
[13:20] <awilkins> I suppose she was a legal secretary for most of her career and thus actually used computers though
[13:21] <awilkins> Now I wonder what she would have made of Vim...
[13:21] <awilkins> Would probably have liked it, in the long run
[13:21] <gordonjcp> awilkins: well my mum has been using computers for quite a while now
[13:21] <daubers> gordonjcp: My mum prefers unity to old gnome
[13:21] <gordonjcp> awilkins: she wants rid of Ubuntu on her desktop because Unity is just to horrible to use
[13:21] <daubers> she found old gnome confusing
[13:22] <awilkins> So ; we've proven that you can find an anecdote to support lots of positions
[13:22] <gordonjcp> doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?
[13:23] <daubers> Canonicals user testing seemed to suggest that "average" users prefered something of the unity style
[13:23] <awilkins> The advantage of course being that this isn't Windows so we can choose the shell we like the most ; the disadvantage being that this splinters the effort directed to making each one better
[13:23] <gordonjcp> what I particularly find annoying is pulseaudio
[13:23] <gordonjcp> it's an unmitigated disaster
[13:24] <gordonjcp> I never, ever want sound to come out of the internal speaker on my PC
[13:24] <daubers> meh, I've not had any problems with pulse for ages, even had it playing stuff across networks happily recently
[13:24] <gordonjcp> I never, ever want more than one app to play sound at once
[13:24] <awilkins> gordonjcp, I would think you are in a distinct minority there
[13:24] <gordonjcp> awilkins: what, I want sound to play on my external speakers?
[13:25] <gordonjcp> if it would even let me play through the line out socket that would do
[13:25] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Only wanting one app to have sound

[13:25] <gordonjcp> *anyone* who uses a PC for playing back music?
[13:25] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Most people will e.g. want to listen to music AND be able to hear IM alerts
[13:25] <gordonjcp> right, maybe
[13:26] <gordonjcp> but it would be nice to have the option to shut all of the stupid beeps and bongs up
[13:26] <oimon> talking of beeps... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hs5ChcYbaNU
[13:26] <gordonjcp> also, pulse makes it damn near impossible to use jack
[13:26] <oimon> made me lol today
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> who needs jack anyway
[13:26] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: anyone using a computer for music
[13:26] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Do per-application mutes persist across app instances in Pulse (as configured by the sound preferences) ?
[13:26] <gordonjcp> awilkins: no idea
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I play music all the time, never needed jack
[13:26]  * awilkins tries that
[13:27] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: you're presumably not recording music
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I am not.
[13:27] <acperkins> in my Mandrake 7 days I remember listening to music for a couple of hours, and when it finished playing I closed the player and got 200-odd IM alert noises
[13:27] <oimon> acperkins: yeah lol
[13:27] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu used to be really popular for running music software
[13:27] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: now it's pretty much impossible
[13:27] <oimon> acperkins: i gather it was related to Alsa and OSS
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: so fix jack/pulse to talk to each other?
[13:27] <gordonjcp> why?
[13:28] <gordonjcp> pulse takes over the soundcard
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> which is good, usually
[13:28] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: unless you want to use it
[13:28] <acperkins> oimon: I guess so now, both using OSS and it was just queueing the sounds. I was a newbie then and completely inexperienced, my fix was to turn of IM sounds.
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I can use it fine with pulse
[13:28] <gordonjcp>  MartijnVdS I guess you could have pulse just present as a jack source that you could then route
[13:28] <oimon> acperkins: i got it on fedora at the time too
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: video conferencing too.. great with pulse!
[13:28] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Ok, so application-specific mixer levels do persist across instances - but you can only see the application in the preferences while it's playing
[13:29] <oimon> does everyone seem in a bit of bad mood today?
[13:29] <gordonjcp> awilkins: I also can't choose which sound device to play through, though
[13:29] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm not interested in video conferencing, though
[13:29] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm interested in sound, and pulseaudio stops me from using sound
[13:29] <awilkins> gordonjcp, I don't seem to have a major problem with that (minor problem was that it "slipped" to my HDMI device which I have nothing plugged into)
[13:29] <gordonjcp> awilkins: okay, how do you do it?
[13:30]  * brobostigon is a in a bad mood because he is ill,
[13:30] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Sound preferences, "OUtput" tab, "Choose a device for sound output:", click on a device
[13:30] <gordonjcp> awilkins: yup, I've selected my USB external codec
[13:30] <gordonjcp> it's *still* playing all sounds through the internal speaker
[13:31] <oimon> brobostigon: i'm grouchy cos i have nasty cold too. off sick for a few days but have gone back to work cos i feel bad about it
[13:31] <awilkins> Sounds like a bug, rather than a lack of feature.. I feel your pain, I had to fix a kernel bug to get the audio on my previous motherboard working properly
[13:31]  * daubers digs out his laptop and finds some music to hack along too
[13:31] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, not good, ok.
[13:31] <gordonjcp> awilkins: works perfectly in 11.10, and it works in other distros
[13:32] <oimon> i've had more viruses than a windows pc this christmas
[13:32] <gordonjcp> awilkins: the device itself is supported; something in 12.04 just isn't happy with it
[13:32] <oimon> all caught via my son
[13:32] <gordonjcp> awilkins: aplay -l even shows it up
[13:32] <gordonjcp> so it's actually *there*
[13:33] <awilkins> gordonjcp, I presume you've submitted a bug - being an alpha release still in development you might even get it fixed before April
[13:33] <brobostigon> oimon: i have had bad infection since before christmas, my eczema has had bad infection also, and it is still persisting, even after seeing my doctor twice, and various anti-biotics etc.
[13:33] <Myrtti> When is the last time you've descaled your kettle? use store bought descaler, or just vinegar. I just saw this and screamed. https://s3.amazonaws.com/wildfire_production/media_files/3193098/where_kettles_come_to_die.jpg
[13:33] <gordonjcp> awilkins: I'll try again in an hour or so with a clean install
[13:34] <Myrtti> that kettle has needed effort to turn like that
[13:34] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: I've never descaled a kettle
[13:34] <awilkins> gordonjcp, But I know where you are coming from ; I put up with a workaround of "switch the mic off and on again" for three releases until it finally broke properly in Natty
[13:34] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: I do it occasionally even in Finland where the water is usually soft
[13:34] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: strange
[13:34] <oimon> Myrtti: what's the prob with the pic?
[13:34] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: pretty much everywhere in Scotland has soft water
[13:35] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: oddly enough, apart from the south of Skye
[13:35] <gordonjcp> awilkins: unplugged and reconnected the codec, *now* it detects it
[13:35] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Which actually spurred me on to fix it, which involved patching kernels. Which I appreciate is not for everyone (and about at the limit of my skill, even for the tiny one-liner that needed fixing)
[13:36] <oimon> looks like my kettle
[13:36] <awilkins> gordonjcp, HAving a look in /var/log/kern.log and seeing what messages occur when it's plugged might be illuminating - it may well be that it just doesn't initialize properly in Pulse
[13:36] <gordonjcp> awilkins: could be
[13:36] <Myrtti> oimon: hurrrrrrr
[13:36] <gordonjcp> not Ubuntu-related, but worth a read:
[13:37] <gordonjcp> http://www.edn.com/article/520531-Toyota_accelerations_revisited_hanging_by_a_tin_whisker.php
[13:37] <oimon> scale doesn't kill you. it kills kettles, but kettles die every few years anyway
[13:37] <gordonjcp> this is why we don't use lead-free solder, mmmkay?
[13:37] <gordonjcp> 90% of my repairs these days are due to failed solder joints
[13:37] <Myrtti> oimon: I'm still using a kettle bought in 2001
[13:38] <oimon> i live in london , where the water virtually stands up by itself, but if you don't let water stand in the kettle overnight etc, generally they are ok
[13:38]  * daubers cleaned his kettle for the first time in 12 months the other day
[13:38] <daubers> brita filters ftw \o/
[13:38] <oimon> they don't recommend you put vinegar etc in kettle nowadays, dunno why
[13:38] <awilkins> I wonder if the more modern flatplate element kettles have better longevity
[13:39] <gordonjcp> make your tea taste funny
[13:39] <oimon> my kettle has a few stalacmites but it's ok
[13:40] <awilkins> If I moved back down South, I'd be using a Brita anyway
[13:40] <awilkins> I'm used to tea made from soft water now, hardwater tea is gross
[13:41] <oimon> we don't drink tea so it's only used to heat water quickly for rice/spag etc
[13:41] <awilkins> Boil vinegar and make sushi rice :-)
[13:42] <christel> i have one of those metal tumbleweed thingies in my kettle
[13:42] <christel> it claims to battle limescale
[13:43] <christel> and every now and again i descale it using that weird foamy stuff
[13:43] <christel> tho, it has yet to develop any visible limescale so i never see the difference when using it
[13:43] <shauno> I'm a traditionalist; stick to beer because I can't trust the water
[13:43] <christel> haha
[13:45] <oimon> mountain spring water runs through limestone caves...same thing innit?
[13:45] <oimon> just need a mesh to catch the floaty bits
[13:45] <oimon> is a WD or seagate 2TB drive preferred nowadays?
[13:46] <daubers> oimon: Depends what you can lay your hands on
[13:47] <oimon> both are in stock daubers
[13:47] <daubers> oimon: This for a desktop or a server?
[13:47] <oimon> desktop PC SATA
[13:47] <daubers> Ah, all desktop drivse are pants
[13:47] <oimon> it will use SSD for the OS
[13:47] <daubers> seagate are probably a bit better than WD at the moment
[13:48] <awilkins> I've been running Seagate / Samsung ones for as long as I can remember
[13:48] <oimon> the 2tb is purely for data
[13:48] <awilkins> The 2.5" samsungs fail a lot when you knock 'em about
[13:48] <oimon> i thought maxtor were assimilated by seagate.
[13:48] <oimon> maxtor suck
[13:48] <awilkins> So now I use an SSD for portable external drive
[13:49] <oimon> hey this is a 5400rpm drive...stuff that
[13:50] <awilkins> I have a 5400rpm as my main system drive now
[13:50] <awilkins> It's not noticably any slower than the 500MB 7600 rpm one it replaced
[13:50] <oimon> upon replacing the 5400 with a 7200 i noticed massive boost
[13:50] <oimon> unforutanely don't have the bootchart logs to prove
[13:51] <Laney> I heard it's mgdm's birthday today!
[13:52] <mgdm> t'is
[13:52] <awilkins> What you need is something that just streams blocks of libraries that are loaded together into big cache files - does preload do that?
[13:52] <awilkins> Ah, it does it in RAM
[13:52] <daubers> So who's finished implimenting Cake over IP?
[13:52] <awilkins> Unfortunately it only works over the local loopback adapter
[13:53]  * awilkins scronff
[14:06] <christel> raar
[14:07] <christel> er, wrong window
[14:07] <Laney> ROAR
[14:08] <daubers> meow?
[14:09] <christel> A LION AND A CAT
[14:10]  * davmor2 tiptoes up behind christel and shouts BOO!
[14:11]  * christel falls off her chair
[14:11] <christel> ow
[14:11]  * davmor2 points  out that christel is 2/3's of the way to a C.S.Lewis book I mean where there's a cat there's a witch right
[14:12] <christel> very true
[14:17] <Myrtti> christel: I prefer my steaks medium, thanks
[14:18] <christel> aww
[14:19] <oimon> is there a name for the rule that says if you add cordial to water already in the cup rather than vice versa, you need more than twice as much. even if you stir it
[14:20] <davmor2> But Myrtti all the good chefs leave it mooing on the plate still
[14:22] <directhex> oimon, 5400rpm and 5900rpm is common these days for large drives. "green" disk drives are all the rage
[14:22] <awilkins> They're quiet too
[14:24] <oimon> but slow,
[14:25] <oimon> directhex: by large, you mean 1tb 2tb?
[14:25] <oimon> i am comparing performance with my sub 1tb laptop drive ..so maybe different with large 3.5 drives as you say
[14:26] <directhex> oimon, 3.5" 5900rpm drives are fast. massive caches help.
[14:26] <oimon> good to know. why does 5900 sound like a weird number to me
[14:26] <awilkins> The drives with greater areal density get faster too, even when the spinny slows down
[14:26] <oimon> directhex: any you recommend specifically?
[14:27] <awilkins> So I dare say a 7900 TB drive is faster than a 5400 one, but I can see how a 5400 2TB drive might be faster than a 7900 1TB one
[14:28] <directhex> oimon, traditionally i've bought samsung, but they got swallowed by seagate
[14:28] <directhex> your choices nowadays are seagate, wd, or leftover drives manufactured by companies that are now seagate or wd
[14:28] <directhex> i'd avoid the wd green series, they have nasty firmware bugs
[14:29] <directhex> so seagate, i guess
[14:29] <awilkins> That headparking thing?
[14:29] <awilkins> Yeah, never like the sound of that bug
[14:30] <bigcalm> directhex: able to give a tiny bit sql server help?
[14:31] <directhex> bigcalm, i've never used that crap in my life
[14:31] <bigcalm> Or anybody else that has to dabble in such dark arts
[14:31] <bigcalm> Oh well
[14:31] <directhex> people assume i'm some kind of microsoft expert ¬_¬
[14:31] <bigcalm> directhex: you love the ms
[14:32] <CaMason> what's the safest way to adjust network settings on ubuntu server?
[14:32] <CaMason> worried about locking myself out when changing interfaces into bridged mode
[14:32] <bigcalm> network manager
[14:32] <CaMason> on ubuntu server?
[14:33] <bigcalm> Be at the machine to change things :)
[14:33] <daubers> CaMason: do it on the cli with brctl and ifconfig first, if it fails, get remote hands to reboot :)
[14:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: you can pick on alex in #wolveslug he might be able to point you in the right direction :D
[14:34] <directhex> CaMason, fortunately, changing to bridged mode is pretty safe. i just edit /etc/networking/interfaces and reboot
[14:34] <daubers> or test it with all except the port you're sshing into first, then add that port when you're happy the rest work
[14:36] <directhex> i mean, what, you just change "eth0" to "br0" in the file, and add "bridge_ports eth0" "bridge_stp off"
[14:36] <bigcalm> davmor2: maybe, I'll google a little more 1st :)
[14:37] <CaMason> ok thanks
[14:38] <oimon> if it's not a production server you could set an 'at' job to reboot in 5 minutes
[14:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: found what I needed, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188670.aspx
[14:39] <oimon> used to do that on cisco routers when making changes: "reload in 10"
[14:39]  * awilkins may have touched SQL Server about 8 years ago
[14:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: congrats :)
[14:40] <awilkins> bigcalm, Ooh, I remember that
[14:41] <awilkins> bigcalm, Scan Computers used to run their webshop under the "sa" account
[14:42] <awilkins> They also had terrible parameter sanitization and built SQL by catting strings
[14:42] <awilkins> They may have fixed it since then
[14:47] <gordonjcp> I can't tell if banshee is misbehaving, or if this is particularly glitchy IDM
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> glitchcore?
[14:52] <zleap> hi
[14:53] <CaMason> extras.ubuntu.com timing out for anyone else?
[14:59] <acperkins> CaMason: getting the same here
[15:01] <popey> yes
[15:02] <CaMason> :(
[15:05] <popey> mentioned to IS
[15:05] <CaMason> thanks
[15:08] <daubers> banshee in precise is a _vast_ amount more stable and performant than in Oneiric
[15:08] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I think it's got more to do with having 900K free
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: 640k should be enough
[15:23] <daubers> must be time for a cuppa
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: a 3d one? :)
[15:24] <daubers> also, my touch typing is rubbish compared to how it used to be a few years ago :(
[15:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_teapot
[15:24] <daubers> Need to get a das keyboard with no key labels on it
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: every time I read "das keyboard" I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DtM7BuCuEV0#t=17s
[15:29] <daubers> i see....
[15:32] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5P7RsC9TI
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Bill Bailey!
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> hr
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> directhex:
[15:37] <jutnux> Afternoon all.
[15:51] <Myrtti> gord: someone should rerender big buck bunny to 3D :-P
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> Headache-o-rama
[15:51] <Myrtti> (if it hasn't already)
[15:57] <directhex> http://www.3dtv.com/UI/ViewMedia.aspx?MediaID=2928
[15:58] <directhex> it's also on youtube 3d
[16:07] <ikonia> directhex: can I send you a quick pm ?
[16:07] <ikonia> (please) excuse my manners there
[16:08] <directhex> ikonia, yes
[16:08]  * daubers offers around the choccy digestives
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> popey: that pronunciation guide channel is.. WEIRD
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: brilliant, but WEIRD
[17:00] <bigcalm> Brighten your afternoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1GZZTV66M8
[17:02] <Azelphur> bigcalm: I've been listening to these guys recently, they do have proper instruments though :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbu4jP9JPRY
[17:15] <Myrtti> gord: I'm having a slow moment, how do I actually watch the video? I need to copy it into DCIM and use the camera app?
[17:18] <knightwise> hey everyone :)
[17:19] <knightwise> hey guys
[17:46] <dewar_> hello
[17:46] <dewar_> has anyone had problems with muon crasht?
[18:30] <awilkins> Ok - deb packaging GUIs ?
[18:31] <awilkins> I've tried building deb packages before and the only time I've had success is just applying patches to existing deb sources
[18:31] <awilkins> Even if the thing offends lintian horribly, I can fix problems - I just can't seem to get it working in the first place
[18:32] <directhex> my fosdem talk is about debian packaging from scratch
[18:32] <directhex> thing about packaging guis is they're made by people who don't know how packaging works - as a result the output quality is beyond terrible
[18:33] <awilkins> Presumably, they try to create the GUI because they tried to learn and found it to be a PITA :-)
[18:33] <awilkins> Am now looking at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes trying to see if this will help
[18:33] <awilkins> Link to your fosdem talk and I promise to try not to make broken packages
[18:34] <Myrtti> well, one thing is for certain
[18:34] <Myrtti> Brian Cox doesn't use Ubuntu
[18:34] <Myrtti> https://twitter.com/#!/giagia/status/157892188943032320
[18:34] <awilkins> Why, because he's got a million, million, million [....] million other things to do?
[18:34] <Myrtti> :-P
[18:35] <awilkins> But his wife is a total hottie though.
[18:38] <awilkins> Gah, foiled.
[18:39] <awilkins> Bazaar recipes for Launchpad need there to be a debian folder already
[18:39] <awilkins> BUT! It does seem a lot easier to patch a tree that way if there's a branch for it already there
[18:39] <awilkins> AWesomes
[18:39] <awilkins> A shame the thing I want to package isn't already packaged
[18:44]  * awilkins starts with http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/first.en.html#workflow
[18:47] <awilkins> Ok, I want to package kyoto cabinet... I could presumably do worse than copying the packaging for it's sibling tokyo cabinet
[18:47] <awilkins> But it's in multiple packages
[18:50] <jutnux> First time packaging awilkins?
[18:51] <awilkins> jutnux, Not the first time I've *tried*
[18:51] <awilkins> jutnux, I think the only success I've had is patching existing debian packages
[18:51] <jutnux> Oh right
[18:52] <awilkins> For example ; how to make multiple packages from one source ball - dividing it into libraries and utilities
[18:53] <jutnux> I must try that one day
[18:54] <awilkins> I find myself craving an Eclipse plugin to help with it...
[19:41] <directhex> awilkins: how? by specifying multiple Package: sections in debian/control, and ensuring that you have valid debian/foo.install and debian/bar.install files listing which pieces of debian/tmp/usr/lib/blabla to include in each package
[19:43] <awilkins> This blog seems to help : http://www.cs.rug.nl/~jurjen/ApprenticesNotes/ch20s06.html
[19:50] <Laney> you typically tell the build system to install in debian/tmp/... and then make .install files to move files from there into packages
[19:50] <Laney> but → #ubuntu-motu
[19:50] <dogmatic69> o/
[19:51] <dogmatic69> I got an arduino sending serial data to the pc, is there a way to catch it in terminal and redirect it to a file?
[20:22] <mattt> erro
[21:35] <gord> Myrtti, yeah and you have to name it like the other 3ds videos are named in that directory
[21:36] <Myrtti> alright, thanks for that
[21:36] <Myrtti> didn't know that
[21:38] <gord> Myrtti, if its longer than 10 minutes it won't show up either, took me forever to figure that out...
[21:39] <Myrtti> yeah I already added stuff to the script you posted
[21:49] <Bassetts> ping Daviey can you contact me ASAP please
[22:51] <czajkowski> Bassetts: email might be better
[22:51] <Bassetts> czajkowski: done, I have contacted him every way I can
[22:51] <Laney> I suspect there might be fun events taking place in Budapest
[22:51] <czajkowski> well he's been busy I'm sure with work and tis the weekend
[22:51] <czajkowski> Laney: indeed
[22:53] <Laney> czajkowski: ow do?
[22:53] <czajkowski> Laney: not bad now thanks, mum was over for the day so did a bit of walking around and eating and relaxing
[22:53] <czajkowski> Laney: hows things with you? been busy ?
[22:54] <Laney> getting back into it
[22:54] <czajkowski> did manage to report a bug yesterday that is a bit of a pita - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271
[22:55] <Laney> oh yes, that one
[22:55] <czajkowski> I was well impressed was me that reported it
[22:55] <czajkowski> my contributions
[22:55] <czajkowski> now I need to figure out how to report my other irritation
[22:55] <czajkowski> I'm powering off my laptop - I know I am
[22:55] <czajkowski> but when I go to power it on the next day - flat battery
[22:55] <czajkowski> it's like it resumes
[22:56] <czajkowski> rather irritating
[22:57] <Laney> that would be annoying
[22:57] <czajkowski> not sure what I file it against though
[22:57] <Laney> probably start with kernel
[22:57] <Laney> wouldn't really know how to triage that though :(
[22:58] <czajkowski> lastone i filed there has yet to be triaged
[22:58] <Laney> Bassetts: ow do? looking forward to exams?
[22:58] <czajkowski> hate logging kernel bugs
[22:59] <czajkowski> Laney: heading to FOSDEM ?
[22:59] <Laney> nah too poor for that
[22:59] <Bassetts> Laney: not great, and big no
[22:59] <Laney> 4th year = no pay
[23:00]  * Laney snuggles el Bassetts 
[23:02] <czajkowski> <--- sleep
[23:02] <Laney> nn
[23:02] <czajkowski> nn