[12:12] <snap-l> G'mornin'
[12:31] <Wolfger> morning
[12:32] <Wolfger> and why did you give brousch your share of volcano tacos? There's other people here too, y'know
[12:33] <Wolfger> although I probably won't be getting many more volcano tacos until after the beefy crunch burritos go away again
[12:35] <Wolfger> OK, wtf is up with an article about alternate Android launchers that doesn't show screenshots? http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/android_homescreen_launchers.html
[13:01] <rick_h__> party
[13:10] <brousch> rick_h__: you back?
[13:12] <rick_h__> not until sat
[13:13] <brousch> ah, so no party yet
[13:13] <brousch> you're missing all the snow
[13:15] <rick_h__> crap, someone go shovel out my wife please :)
[13:16] <brousch> right, i'll be there in 3 hours
[13:16] <brousch> i don't think detroit are got much
[13:20] <Wolfger> Nah. Hardly anything. Just enough to make everybody drive like near-sighted grannies
[13:21] <Wolfger> but the rain/snow mix did make some less-traveled roads slippery
[14:03] <snap-l> rick_h__: We got a smattering at best by us
[14:04] <rick_h__> snap-l: ah cool thanks
[14:04] <rick_h__> when I left the 10 day had no snow
[14:04] <rick_h__> so hoped she didn't get stuck shoveling
[14:04] <snap-l> Unless Clarkston got hard-hit, she'll be fine
[14:06] <snap-l> Just enough to say it snowed, but not enough to shovel
[14:06] <snap-l> at least not yet.
[14:07] <snap-l> though currently it's not snowing
[14:11] <rick_h__> cool
[14:53] <tjagoda> Where do I file my petition to request more snow?
[14:58] <brousch> tjagoda: in the gassy depths of ur anus
[15:08] <brousch> omg, this is what i feel like when snap-l starts talking music http://amultiverse.com/2012/01/13/horace-greenstein-scary-owl-lawyer-purchases-music/
[15:18] <snap-l> Reminds me of HIgh Fidelity
[15:18] <snap-l> (the movie)
[15:18] <snap-l> And yes, I'm guilty of that. I'll admint it.
[15:22] <Wolfger> Beige Lines? LOL
[15:23] <Wolfger> and yeah, that does remind me very much of High Fidelity
[15:24] <Wolfger> I was not aware Multiverse was still running. I thought it was stopping or something. If not, I have nfc why I unsubscribed the feed... I loved that strip
[15:26] <rick_h__> wheee, I'm slap happy after this week and coming up on demo time
[15:27] <rick_h__> ...ummm...we...did stuff......ugh
[15:28] <nullspace> yawn
[15:32] <Wolfger> So what massive improvements have you made to LP, rick_h__ ?
[15:34] <tjagoda> He could tell you, Wolfger, but then he'd have to kill you.
[16:16] <snap-l> rick_h__: How does it feel to be a superstar? :)
[16:24] <tjagoda> Didn't rick_h apply to cannonical like 6,000,000 times?
[16:27] <snap-l> tjagoda: I think we all have.
[16:27] <snap-l> At least I feel like I have.
[16:28] <snap-l> I just haven't hit critical-mass-awesome-levels like rick_h__ has. ;)
[16:28] <tjagoda> There are no work from home network admin jobs. =(
[16:29] <snap-l> Actually, at SF>net there were
[16:29] <snap-l> But when something went pear-shaped at the data center, someone had to go in to fix shit
[16:38] <rick_h__> heh, I ripped out an old JS framework, implemented a YUI combo loader, and saving about 600k and 1-3seconds on page load time :)
[16:38] <rick_h__> heh, snap-l must not have hit my old code yet if he's being nice to me
[16:38] <snap-l> rick_h__: Show-off
[16:38] <snap-l> rick_h__: Haven't hit any of the web development stuff yet.
[16:38] <snap-l> rick_h__: Though I have some opinions on your venv setup. ;)
[16:40] <tjagoda> Yay 1-3 seconds
[16:40] <tjagoda> I always remembered launchpad being slooow.
[16:41] <rick_h__> snap-l: hah!
[16:41] <rick_h__> see, there we go
[16:41] <rick_h__> what did I mess up?
[16:50] <snap-l> rick_h__: just not a fan of where the venv is placed in relation to the code
[16:50] <snap-l> see pm
[17:06] <tjagoda> Going to burger king and getting onions rings with no onion ring sauce inspires the fury of 10,000 burning suns within my soul.
[17:25] <snap-l> That's just indigestion
[17:35] <Wolfger> tjagoda: there's such a thing as "onion sauce"?
[17:36] <snap-l> I trust tjagoda to know everything I need to know about fast food
[17:43] <Wolfger> s/everything/more than/
[17:49] <tjagoda> I am a single man
[17:49] <tjagoda> Fast Food is my break from Ramen noodles
[17:49] <tjagoda> =p
[18:03] <nullspace> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fYTPhuPuF20
[18:03] <nullspace> good to see "little brother" is still watchign the watchmen
[18:10] <brousch> snap-l: how do organize your venvs? mine tend to look like this http://paste.mitechie.com/show/490/
[19:04] <greg-g> huh, I hadn't noticed that lodgeIt sets a cookie and then if someone replies to your paste while you were away, it tells you at the top when you come back.
[19:23] <snap-l> brousch: I put my venvs under ~/.virtualenv
[19:23] <snap-l> and then use virtualenvwrapper to keep trak
[19:23] <snap-l> track, even
[19:26] <brousch> where does your code go?
[19:26] <snap-l> in a directory outside of the env
[19:26] <snap-l> dev is under projects
[19:27] <snap-l> deployment is wherever is conventional
[19:27] <snap-l> but the venv is separate from the codebase
[19:28] <snap-l> so if I want to have a webapps venv, I can
[19:28] <snap-l> or if I want each web app to have a separate venv, I can configure that with apache
[19:28] <snap-l> (note: this assumes you have access to change apache config)
[19:29] <snap-l> That way, if someone broke into your app, they couldn't easily inject malicious code into your venv environment
[19:29] <snap-l> (at least, not by using ../../etc
[19:31] <brousch> interesting
[19:32] <snap-l> Call me old-fashioned but I don't like putting libraries within easy reach on a web server.
[19:32] <snap-l> That's one thing that irritates me no end with PHP
[19:33] <snap-l> especially when the way to fix a problem (from the developers themselves) is to run chmod 777
[19:33] <snap-l> I want to punch babies when I see that
[19:37] <Wolfger> ugh. This day can be over now
[19:37] <snap-l> Wolfger: That good, eh?
[19:37] <Wolfger> why do things always go South on a Friday?
[19:37] <Wolfger> chmod 777, the Windows solution to *nix permissions problems
[19:38] <Wolfger> wow. that was a delay. I typed that a while ago
[19:41] <snap-l> This just made my day: http://www.businessinsider.com/judge-tells-oracle-its-6-billion-claim-against-google-android-is-a-joke-2012-1
[19:42] <snap-l> I relaly think Oracle should just get stuffed.
[19:43] <Wolfger> If Google did something wrong, they should pay up... but the judge is absolutely right that 6.1 billion is a ludicrous claim for damages
[19:44] <snap-l> At least show your work.
[19:45] <snap-l> That's all the judge is asking
[19:45] <Wolfger> Uh... no. He's asking them for a new figure, per the article
[19:50] <snap-l> Right, because they haven't shown how they arrived at the original number
[19:51] <snap-l> Although I really hope that Google didn't have a conversation about licensing the JDK prior to not licensing
[19:51] <snap-l> because that'll suck
[19:53] <Wolfger> I think those are the e-mails mentioned
[19:54] <Wolfger> and I didn't get from the article that they *haven't* show their work, my interpretation was that the judge didn't like their work.
[19:55] <Wolfger> "until Oracle comes up with a reasonable method" says to me that he saw their method and found it unreasonable
[19:55] <Wolfger> If you file for damages with just a number and no work at all to show how you got that number, you should just get laughed out of the courtroom entirely.
[19:56] <Wolfger> but, that's 6 of one or a half-dozen of the other. Either way, same end story.
[19:56] <brousch> am i crazy for thinking this is an insane way of keeping track of the days of week and times a store is open? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/491/
[19:57] <Wolfger> brousch: No, you are crazy for other reasons entirely
[19:58] <brousch> i didn't write that. i'm trying to make sense of it
[20:00] <snap-l> brousch: I'd say it's insane if it doesn't use built-in date/time libraries
[20:00] <Wolfger> I gave up trying to make sense of it when the example was "assuming a week = 10 minutes"
[20:00] <snap-l> I don't gather if it does or doesn't from the description
[20:01] <brousch> i think it stores these things as minutes from sunday at midnight
[20:01] <brousch> wtf
[20:01] <Wolfger> I'm sure somebody thought they came up with some very clever solution to their problem...
[20:02] <Wolfger> so clever that I understand neither the solution nor the problem it's trying to solve
[20:02] <brousch> the problem is they want to know when a particular store is open or closed
[20:03] <brousch> so this is how they store the open and closed times
[20:03] <brousch> not very flexible either. some places' hours change with the season and holidays
[20:04] <Wolfger> time zones?
[20:04] <brousch> ah well, all i really need to do right now is fudge in a record so my store appears to be open right now
[20:04] <brousch> time zones are somewhere else i guess
[20:05] <brousch> it's all grand rapids right now, so they haven't worried
[20:05] <Wolfger> I mean, if info is stored in terms of "minutes from midnight Sunday", you would need to know the time zone differential between the store and the server.
[20:05] <Wolfger> ah, ok
[20:06] <Wolfger> and on that note.... time to call it a week.
[20:06] <Wolfger> this store is closed :-)
[20:06] <brousch> it's only 3pm slacker
[20:06] <rick_h__> 3pm?
[20:06]  * rick_h__ is packing so he can get up at 3am and head to the airport
[20:07] <greg-g> wee
[20:07] <rick_h__> yea, party party
[20:07] <rick_h__> man I can't wait to get home
[20:07] <rick_h__> but someone mentioned that monday is a holiday so !!!!!!!!
[20:09] <greg-g> not for me
[20:09] <greg-g> though it is my last day of paternity leave
[20:09] <greg-g> (don't remind me that I'm actually working some have-to stuff that is due EOW right now)
[20:09] <rick_h__> greg-g: oh, well good to get back
[20:10] <greg-g> yeah
[20:10] <greg-g> it'll be nice to get back into the swing of things, really
[20:10] <greg-g> felt really out of it lately
[20:11] <rick_h__> yea, it'll be good
[20:14] <brousch> they're also using these things called jsonfields where they type json into a django admin text field
[20:14] <rick_h__> what? jsonfields?
[20:14] <brousch> they're using it to store addresses and contact info. that seems lazy
[20:15] <rick_h__> wtf, I ranted on django here. We're building some new crap with it and I'm very unhappy
[20:15] <brousch> you type json into the text field, it stores as a string, then converts to dict when it's reetrieved
[20:15] <brousch> seems very fragile and lazy
[20:16] <brousch> i mean, you have to type the json exactly right or it'll be broken when you use it
[20:17] <brousch> to be fair, jsonfield is not in django core, it is some thing various people have hacked up
[20:18] <rick_h__> yea, gotcha
[20:18] <rick_h__> well I'm tired and very ranty
[20:18] <brousch> it doesn't make sense to me
[20:18] <rick_h__> I'm not a fan of "these are all the freaking reasons NOT to use django...ok so what are your reasons for?"
[20:18] <rick_h__> "umm, it's very popular. There's a large base of people that use it"
[20:18] <brousch> make an address table, make a contacts table, link them in like normal
[20:19] <rick_h__> brousch: probably because they just want a key value type store and it's used over an API
[20:19] <brousch> rick_h__: "it looks good on a resume"
[20:20] <brousch> there is an api, but they don't use it yet
[20:20] <snap-l> Just save a UNIX time-stamp and use seconds. ;)
[20:21] <rick_h__> brousch: then go tell them that "this one angry dev I know wants to know WTF is up with this POS"
[20:21] <brousch> heh
[20:21] <brousch> well i'll do that monday
[20:22] <brousch> this is a site for a local startup/charity. i don't know who actually created this mess
[20:22] <snap-l> ask at the next grwebdev
[20:23] <snap-l> I'm sure someone knows
[20:23] <brousch> but it's _really_ hard to find an experienced django dev in GR, so i suspect it was a n00b
[20:23] <brousch> monday is grpug
[20:23] <brousch> the startup owner will be there, so i can ask him
[20:24] <snap-l> "who developed this, and did they leave their crack pip behind?"
[20:24] <snap-l> s/pip/pipe/
[20:25] <brousch> but really, why not just store a street address as a string? why break it up into pieces and save it as json?
[20:27] <brousch> sorry for the rant. it really has me going wtf
[20:28] <snap-l> WEll, and what happens when you have a PO box?
[20:28] <snap-l> or deal with addresses from another country?
[20:29] <snap-l> I'm sure a Canadian zip code will break shit
[20:33] <brousch> technically this is for restaurants, so they're likely to have a real address.
[20:33] <brousch> but surely there's a standard and rrobust way of storing addresses in a django database
[20:35] <brousch> ok, i guess not, but i see a couple of alpha/beta things for it
[21:10] <rick_h__> addresses are funny things
[21:10] <rick_h__> so many parts and depends on where you are
[21:13] <snap-l> Yeah, it's not something that you can slice and dice like that and expect to work
[21:13] <snap-l> kind of like 7 digit phone numbers
[21:14] <snap-l> 70015551212 = ???
[21:14] <snap-l> actually, i borked that
[21:14] <snap-l> was thinking 7 for external line
[21:14] <snap-l> 001 for country code
[21:15] <snap-l> 555 area code, 5551515 for the whatever you call the last 7 digits of a phone number
[21:15] <brousch> i expected a module you could plugin to handle addresses anywhere in the world. this the world wide web
[21:16] <snap-l> I thought this was the internets, where we could still use 7 bit ascii
[21:16] <rick_h__> probably easy :)
[21:16] <snap-l> fuck, I'm in the wrong area then
[21:25] <rick_h__> cool, checked in for flight tomorrow
[21:25] <rick_h__> with little images on my phone
[21:33] <brousch> rick_h__: doesn't canonical use django in a few places already?
[21:34] <snap-l> rick_h__: That's pretty neat.
[21:35] <rick_h__> brousch: yes, a ton
[21:35] <rick_h__> doesn't make it less wrong :)
[21:36] <brousch> django does everything!
[21:36]  * rick_h__ hangs head
[21:37] <brousch> i'm a little ashamed to admit i am enjoying poking around in it again
[21:37] <brousch> luckily rick_h__ is thousands of miles away and cannot kick me in the head
[21:38] <rick_h__> I'm too tired to fight any more
[21:38] <brousch> woohoo!
[21:38] <rick_h__> and I'm going to be stuck with it
[21:38] <rick_h__> I don't get to develop the project, but I'll have to maintain it
[21:38] <brousch> django orm is the bizziggidzomb
[21:39] <rick_h__> ok, now you're just poking me
[21:41] <brousch> when do you take off?
[21:42] <brousch> actually trying to get the paths and django settings hooked up right in this app was driving me bonkers.
[21:43] <rick_h__> 6am, cab leaves 3:30am, currently 11pm
[21:43] <rick_h__> coming up on that is
[21:43] <brousch> go to bed
[21:43] <rick_h__> can't
[21:44] <rick_h__> watching the guys play illumnati or something
[21:44] <rick_h__> they're attacking the federal reserve, whatever that means
[21:46] <rick_h__> boo, can't pull this up http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ofwfj/the_top_10_javascript_mvc_frameworks_reviewed/
[21:49] <brousch> it just says "Jquery winning!"
[21:59] <snap-l> illuminati the card game? :)
[21:59] <snap-l> Steve Jackson Games.
[21:59] <rick_h__> snap-l: yea, some card game with "mega bucks" and rolling of die
[22:00] <snap-l> Yeah, you play illuminati, and can control different branches and items like the boy scouts, the Gnomes of ZUrich, etc.
[22:00] <snap-l> I've been meaning to pick that up
[22:00] <rick_h__> yea, they've got MTV and a bunch of stuff
[22:00] <rick_h__> kind of crazy to listen to honestly
[22:01] <snap-l> It's all about influence.
[22:01] <snap-l> Surprised they're playing it. Seemed like the popularity was more in the 1990s.
[22:01] <snap-l> But cool nonetheless.