| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| === cgriff_ is now known as cgriff | ||
| KrimZon | *vertigo grin* | 02:03 |
|---|---|---|
| Azelphur | http://redux.com/f/1177077/Programmer-Husband is it just me or should this be 7 loaves of bread, not 6. | 02:05 |
| Timecop | is thare a link show me how setup VPM server for wifi connect ? | 08:12 |
| MooDoo | morning all | 08:57 |
| Timecop | hello MooDoo | 08:58 |
| MooDoo | hi Timecop, how are you, but you knew i was already going to say that didn't you ;) | 09:02 |
| AlanBell | morning people o/ | 09:51 |
| MooDoo | morning | 09:52 |
| mattt | yoez | 09:54 |
| dwatkins | hiya | 09:54 |
| mattt | anyone off to one of the london irish games today? | 09:54 |
| MartijnVdS | \o | 10:53 |
| mattt | howzit MartijnVdS | 10:53 |
| czajkowski | Aloha | 10:54 |
| * MartijnVdS is playing with photos | 10:54 | |
| * jutnux pokes MartijnVdS | 10:54 | |
| jutnux | Howdy people | 10:54 |
| MartijnVdS | apparently there's a driver for the Selphy printer line | 10:55 |
| MartijnVdS | (photo printers) | 10:55 |
| MooDoo | hello MartijnVdS czajkowski jutnux | 10:58 |
| jutnux | Hiho. | 10:59 |
| MartijnVdS | I'm actually quite impressed with the print quality of this thing | 11:00 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | Hi all, what IP do you get if you ping www.canoncopiers.biz ? | 11:20 |
| MartijnVdS | www.canoncopiers.biz has address 176.9.228.203 | 11:20 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | :-D | 11:21 |
| MartijnVdS | www.canoncopiers.biz.21579INA176.9.228.203 | 11:21 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | Great. <sarcasm>glad our customer told us he was going to move his dns records this weekend</sarcasm> | 11:21 |
| MartijnVdS | 21579 looks like a great TTL for a host that's going to be updated | 11:22 |
| MartijnVdS | ಠ_ಠ | 11:22 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | This is the new host. | 11:22 |
| MartijnVdS | ah | 11:22 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | It's a *really* old website - we have moved from a shared host to a dedicated VM. | 11:23 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | for our own protection. | 11:23 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | They are talking too long to decide if they want to update it or not. | 11:23 |
| MartijnVdS | "It's not broken yet is it? Then why risk it?" | 11:23 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | Indeed. | 11:23 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | No patches or security updates since 2008 :-( | 11:24 |
| MartijnVdS | :'( | 11:24 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | I've now stuck it on it's own 8.04 LTS server. | 11:24 |
| MartijnVdS | so they have another year or so to decide | 11:25 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | At least it is now reasonably isolated. | 11:25 |
| brobostigon | good morning everyone, | 11:28 |
| MartijnVdS | \o | 11:29 |
| brobostigon | o/ | 11:29 |
| czajkowski | hmm my date/time is gone from the bar on top | 11:43 |
| czajkowski | most annoying | 11:43 |
| MartijnVdS | irssi shows the time, but I agree it should be in the top bar | 11:44 |
| MartijnVdS | must be a bug | 11:44 |
| czajkowski | yeah I've irris but i always look at date/time up beide the the wifi icon | 11:44 |
| czajkowski | very odd it missing | 11:44 |
| czajkowski | gord: what did you break!!!! | 11:44 |
| gord | czajkowski, unity? sounds like your missing the date time indicator | 11:54 |
| gord | apt-cache policy indicator-datetime | 11:54 |
| czajkowski | gord: indeed where is it gone or is there a bug filled | 11:54 |
| czajkowski | I'd like it back please | 11:54 |
| gord | czajkowski, if its just that your missing the package, sounds like a packaging thing, something conflicted and it got removed without you noticing. just have to reinstall | 11:54 |
| czajkowski | *mutters* | 11:55 |
| czajkowski | so apt-get install indicator-datetime ? | 11:55 |
| gord | should be | 11:55 |
| gord | then relogin | 11:55 |
| MartijnVdS | gord: hm, it was missing here as well -- upgrade to unity 5 broke it I guess | 11:55 |
| gord | crazy people using ppa's ;) | 11:56 |
| MartijnVdS | gord: certified ;) | 11:56 |
| czajkowski | Package indicator-datetime is not available, but is referred to by another package. | 11:56 |
| czajkowski | This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or | 11:56 |
| czajkowski | is only available from another source | 11:56 |
| czajkowski | However the following packages replace it: indicator-datetime-gtk2:i386 indicator-datetime-gtk2 | 11:56 |
| czajkowski | E: Package 'indicator-datetime' has no installation candidaI'm not using a PPA | 11:56 |
| czajkowski | grr | 11:56 |
| gord | czajkowski, precice then? | 11:57 |
| czajkowski | gord: yup | 11:57 |
| czajkowski | it was there yesterday | 11:57 |
| czajkowski | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271 then I had to do some spring cleaning due to that annoying bug | 11:58 |
| lubotu3 | Ubuntu bug 915271 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "package libreoffice-core 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: rmdir: failed to remove `usr/lib/libreoffice/basis3.4/program/': Directory not empty" [Undecided,New] | 11:58 |
| danfish | afternoon | 12:36 |
| danfish | not long until the millionth bug | 12:37 |
| danfish | I reckon popey will file it! | 12:37 |
| brobostigon | afternoonings danfish | 12:38 |
| danfish | o/ | 12:38 |
| brobostigon | o/ | 12:38 |
| danfish | it's really rather nice out today | 12:41 |
| brobostigon | agreed, it looks sunny and cold. | 12:41 |
| danfish | a day for walks and pubs - so why am I inside? | 12:41 |
| * brobostigon is inside, because he is ill. | 12:42 | |
| danfish | :( | 12:42 |
| brobostigon | :( | 12:42 |
| brobostigon | agreed. | 12:42 |
| MartijnVdS | In the rapper/street sense of the word, or the bad sense of it? | 12:42 |
| brobostigon | danfish: fluclox and aciclovir time again. | 12:42 |
| danfish | brobostigon: "the usual" | 12:42 |
| MartijnVdS | Antivirals? Yikes. | 12:42 |
| brobostigon | danfish: more or less, yes. | 12:42 |
| danfish | MartijnVdS: you are so down wiv da kidz | 12:43 |
| Neoti | Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ? | 12:43 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: agreed, yes. but neccessery. | 12:43 |
| brobostigon | in theory it shouls stabilise out fairly quickly, and then improve from there. | 12:45 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: if the doctor who prescribed those is called 'Norton' or 'McAfee'... :) | 12:45 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: haha, no. | 12:46 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: maybe he's a pirate? (Avast!) | 12:46 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: my dermatologist is called venning, | 12:46 |
| * acperkins wonders how many Dr Watsons there are | 12:47 | |
| MartijnVdS | "Venning". That's what it's called when you're making the diagrams | 12:47 |
| danfish | there's a urologist locally called John Dick | 12:47 |
| danfish | I kid you not | 12:47 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: either i am not following or something isnt making sense, i simply am not understanding what you are getting at. | 12:47 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: Venn diagrams :) Just making fun of names really | 12:48 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: oh, i see, ok. | 12:48 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: trying to help you with humour! ;) | 12:48 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: i totally missed it, sorry. thank you. | 12:49 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: You're probably used to the somewhat higher standards of British humour.. ;) | 12:50 |
| * danfish searches the gmc register for watsons for acperkins and crashes the site :/ | 12:50 | |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: and I'm only Dutch | 12:50 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: i am just no good at humour, really. | 12:51 |
| MartijnVdS | danfish: doctor watson? | 12:51 |
| danfish | acperkins: 419 registered Dr Watsons in the UK | 12:51 |
| MartijnVdS | danfish: no Doc Ock? | 12:51 |
| danfish | MartijnVdS: have a look here - www.gmc-uk.org | 12:51 |
| * brobostigon should probebly try and have something to eat, even if he doesnt feel like it. | 12:53 | |
| gordonjcp | danfish: when I worked at IBM, there was a Mal Reynolds and a Simon Tam in Bluepages... | 12:57 |
| danfish | gordonjcp: heh | 12:59 |
| gordonjcp | also, 20-odd years ago when my mum went in for thyroid surgery, her ENT specialist was called Dr Crippen... | 12:59 |
| MartijnVdS | there's an aviation expert (who gets interviewed on TV when some kind of air crash happens) called "Baksteen" ("brick") | 13:00 |
| gordonjcp | heh | 13:01 |
| MartijnVdS | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism :) | 13:01 |
| Pendulum | gordonjcp: there's an EDS specialist named Dr. Tinkle. We keep saying he should be a urologist | 13:09 |
| Pendulum | (well, in the UK he'd probably be Prof Tinkle, but still) | 13:09 |
| * brobostigon returns with toast, | 13:10 | |
| penguin42 | toast is good | 13:11 |
| brobostigon | yes, just plain toast, alittle margerine, easy on my tummy, | 13:12 |
| Myrtti | TOASSSTTTT | 13:14 |
| Myrtti | nomnomnom | 13:14 |
| penguin42 | hmm, time for breakfast then :-) | 13:16 |
| DJones | Afternoon all | 13:50 |
| MooDoo | howdy | 13:51 |
| DJones | Hi MooDoo | 13:52 |
| jutnux | Afternoon all. | 14:33 |
| mfraz74 | good afternoon | 14:35 |
| MooDoo | howdy | 14:44 |
| Neoti | Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ? | 15:28 |
| Laney | try the NLUG mailing list | 15:29 |
| Laney | p.s. more Nottingham people in here - yay | 15:29 |
| Neoti | Hey Laney | 15:30 |
| Neoti | guess ur from notts too | 15:30 |
| Laney | oh yes | 15:30 |
| Neoti | cool bean ... what area | 15:31 |
| Laney | live in beeston | 15:31 |
| Neoti | ah just down road... | 15:31 |
| Laney | yeah? | 15:32 |
| Neoti | yep . | 15:32 |
| Laney | let me guess... long eaton | 15:32 |
| Neoti | nope | 15:34 |
| Laney | :( | 15:35 |
| ali1234 | popey: regarding screencasting, how do you switch between nouveau and nvidia with a minimum of fuss? | 15:41 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: jockey-gtk? | 15:44 |
| ali1234 | i said a minimum of fuss not a maximum | 15:44 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: jockey-text? | 15:44 |
| ali1234 | jockey eats my xorg.conf every time i try to use it | 15:44 |
| ali1234 | basically, it's garbage | 15:44 |
| MartijnVdS | you have to reboot, because the nvidia kernel module can't be unloaded | 15:45 |
| MartijnVdS | also, you probably need to deinstall the package containing it, or it'll be autoloaded | 15:45 |
| ali1234 | great. that has nothing to do with jockey | 15:45 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: that's dpkg or apt, yes | 15:45 |
| ali1234 | also, jockey doesn't have nouveau as an option, just several different binary drivers | 15:45 |
| MartijnVdS | it has on/off as options for the binary driver(s) afaik? | 15:46 |
| ali1234 | also, you don't need to remove the nvidia kernel binary to use nouveau | 15:46 |
| MartijnVdS | turn off all binary drivers -> nouveau! | 15:46 |
| ali1234 | because if nothing uses it, it doesn't do anything | 15:46 |
| ali1234 | so what i'm actually going to do is backup xorg.conf, delete it, then reboot | 15:46 |
| MartijnVdS | good luck | 15:47 |
| ali1234 | why does it always end up with a frozen machine every time i try to use nouveau? | 16:31 |
| ali1234 | oh well, i managed to record my screencasts | 16:32 |
| daubers | Afternoon | 16:39 |
| kaushal | Hi | 17:30 |
| kaushal | is there a way to batch print PDF documents in Ubuntu ? | 17:30 |
| kaushal | For example in TB client | 17:31 |
| kaushal | I have an option lpr *.pdf | 17:31 |
| kaushal | but any better way to do it ? | 17:32 |
| ali1234 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlpdfmtVGA | 17:38 |
| ali1234 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/916542 | 17:39 |
| lubotu3 | Ubuntu bug 916542 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity spread "randomly" shuffles overlapping windows" [Undecided,New] | 17:39 |
| jutnux | Surely they're just arranging in the last opened order? | 17:40 |
| ali1234 | nope | 17:40 |
| ali1234 | if that were true, then why do the windows that i don't select also shuffle around? | 17:40 |
| jutnux | Because you have selected them before so they re-arrange? | 17:41 |
| ali1234 | that doesn't make any sense | 17:41 |
| jutnux | I can't express what I mean properly. | 17:41 |
| ali1234 | the windows were opened in order 1 to 9 | 17:42 |
| ali1234 | look at the spread arrangement after i make them over lap the very first time | 17:42 |
| jutnux | Oh yes | 17:43 |
| jutnux | So I see | 17:43 |
| ali1234 | i arrange them all in order as well | 17:43 |
| ali1234 | then first time clicking spread i get order: 1 2 8 4 3 7 6 5 9 | 17:43 |
| ali1234 | it's obviously not truely random | 17:43 |
| ali1234 | it just doesn't make any sense and is impossible to predict | 17:44 |
| ali1234 | hence "random" | 17:44 |
| ali1234 | when you combine that random shuffling with a bunch of windows that all look the same, such as these: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/crZSFsw3MXM | 17:46 |
| ali1234 | the result is exceptionally irritating | 17:46 |
| * jutnux looks | 17:48 | |
| jutnux | Ah yes. | 17:48 |
| jutnux | I thought you didn't use Unity ali1234? | 17:49 |
| ali1234 | i've used it every day since natty beta was released | 17:49 |
| ali1234 | i still hate it | 17:49 |
| ali1234 | but i hate it slightly less than KDE or gnome shell | 17:49 |
| jutnux | I've actually started to like Gnome SHell | 17:54 |
| jutnux | Shell | 17:54 |
| jutnux | I'll probably hate it soon. | 17:54 |
| jutnux | ali1234: have you tried xfce? | 17:56 |
| ali1234 | gnome shell has all the same flaws an unity, plus it doesn't support multimonitor | 17:56 |
| ali1234 | xfce doesn't support DPI properly, or indicators, or notifications | 17:57 |
| jutnux | ali1234: Multi monitor is working fine for me on Gnome Shell. | 17:57 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I'm curious about the DPI comment; I suspect that's more general across multiple desktops these days - I think that might be changeable in the X server config | 17:57 |
| jutnux | penguin42: I was able to change the DPI in XFCE, I think. | 17:58 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: One of the problems is that a global DPI for all monitors in a X desktop is silly since they aren't all the same | 17:58 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: it has nothing to do with monitors | 17:58 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: under gnome or unity or kde, firefox fonts are the same size as fonts on the panels for example | 17:58 |
| ali1234 | under xfce, they are not | 17:59 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Oh I see, hmm ok, that's fair | 17:59 |
| ali1234 | in fact, under xfce, it is impossible to make xfce panels have the same sized fonts as, well, every other piece of software ever made | 17:59 |
| ali1234 | you can have them either slightly smaller, or slightly larger | 17:59 |
| ali1234 | even if you go to decimal point sizes you can't do it | 17:59 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I assume you've filed a bug on it? | 18:00 |
| ali1234 | this used to be a problem in KDE as well but they've more or less fixed it now | 18:00 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: i wouldn't know what to file it against | 18:00 |
| ali1234 | and given that xfce only has about 3 developers and hasn;t changed at all since 5 years ago, it didn't seem like a worthwhile use of my time | 18:01 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: xfce4-panel ? | 18:01 |
| ali1234 | it's not just xfce-panel | 18:01 |
| ali1234 | its xfce-everything | 18:01 |
| ali1234 | panel, control panels, thunar | 18:01 |
| ali1234 | the lot | 18:01 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It's best to file it on a vgauely right package rather than not file it at all | 18:01 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: libxfce4ui-1-0 or the like? | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | i only tried XFCE for about half an hour just to humour the people who constantly suggest it | 18:03 |
| ali1234 | honestly it is significantly worse than gnome 2 was | 18:03 |
| ali1234 | it's like gnome 2 copied by people who have no idea what they are doing | 18:03 |
| Azelphur | I use XFCE on multi monitor and it seems fine | 18:03 |
| Azelphur | Admittedly I swapped out half the DE though | 18:03 |
| jutnux | As much as I liked Gnome 2 I do think it needs to move on. | 18:03 |
| ali1234 | and jutnux: gnome-shell doesn't have multiple monitor support by design | 18:04 |
| ali1234 | any monitor after the first does not participate in window switching | 18:04 |
| ali1234 | which is absolutely useless | 18:04 |
| Azelphur | I use compiz so I assume that doesn't affect me | 18:04 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I sympathise with the choice of using the desktop you hate least - it's not a good situation | 18:04 |
| Azelphur | XFCE + Compiz + Nautilus + Cairo-dock instead of xfce-panel | 18:05 |
| Azelphur | works well for me | 18:05 |
| jutnux | I use gnome-shell with Docky | 18:05 |
| Azelphur | yea but I'm on quad monitor :P | 18:06 |
| ali1234 | docks are bloody awful | 18:06 |
| jutnux | I'd prefer a bottom panel | 18:06 |
| ali1234 | see bug report ^ | 18:06 |
| Azelphur | lol | 18:06 |
| penguin42 | Azelphur: Nice :-) | 18:06 |
| ali1234 | if they didn't insist on using a dock, i wouldn't have this problem | 18:06 |
| Azelphur | ali1234: who insists? | 18:06 |
| ali1234 | because i'd have a window list that actually made it possible to tell what the windows actually are | 18:06 |
| ali1234 | Azelphur: the desktop design team | 18:07 |
| Azelphur | ali1234: ah :P | 18:07 |
| Azelphur | but surely you can just rip out what you don't like and replace it, as I've done | 18:07 |
| ali1234 | one thing is for sure. unity is the best looking desktop by a long long way | 18:07 |
| ali1234 | and since i have to look at it a lot that's a big bonus for why i use it | 18:08 |
| ali1234 | in contrast, KDE and XFCE look terrible, and gnome-shell is only mildly bad | 18:08 |
| ali1234 | however, i've found that desktop developers don't like bug reports that say "your desktop looks ugly" | 18:08 |
| penguin42 | see I like the KDE look | 18:09 |
| Azelphur | lol | 18:09 |
| Laney | BAH | 18:09 |
| ali1234 | out of all open source software ever made there are basically only two themes that look decent ever made | 18:09 |
| Laney | distorted audio after upgrading to precise | 18:09 |
| penguin42 | Laney: Mooo! | 18:09 |
| ali1234 | and both of those themes only work on gtk2 | 18:10 |
| Laney | also graphics fail means i can't play super meat boy :( | 18:10 |
| ali1234 | and also both of them were paid for by canonical | 18:10 |
| penguin42 | Laney: Report! | 18:10 |
| Laney | yes | 18:10 |
| ali1234 | KDE looks like widget soup | 18:11 |
| ali1234 | also nthing is ever aligned properly | 18:11 |
| mgdm | mmm soup | 18:11 |
| ali1234 | but it turns out actually things are aligned properly, it's just that the themes are badly designed so when stuff is aligned, it looks like it isn't | 18:11 |
| ali1234 | and this can't be fixed due to the design of KDE | 18:11 |
| ali1234 | this mainly affects things like drop shadows | 18:12 |
| ali1234 | because they are bigger down one side | 18:12 |
| ali1234 | of course, every single KDE theme has multiple drop shadows and gradients on everything | 18:12 |
| ali1234 | so pretty much KDE can only look awful | 18:12 |
| ali1234 | if you switch it to using the Gtk decorator for everything then you can make it look semi-decent | 18:12 |
| penguin42 | yeh but that often breaks | 18:13 |
| ali1234 | because then you have available themes that don't have dropshadows and gradients everywhere | 18:13 |
| ali1234 | yes, i was coming to that. the gtk decorator is quite buggy, especially with kwin compositing | 18:13 |
| ali1234 | so yeah, that's why i don't use KDE | 18:13 |
| jutnux | ali1234: You tried cinnamon? | 18:13 |
| ali1234 | no i never heard of it | 18:14 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: See I guess we have different priorities - I don't actually care too much about the style; I care more about features and things working and being easy for me - and that balance is KDE least-worse at the moment (although there is annoying bug in PP at the moment) | 18:14 |
| ali1234 | as i said the other day. i started using computers before the GUI was invented and i've used some really truely difficult to use ones | 18:14 |
| ali1234 | none of the current ones are as bad as, say, windows 3.1 | 18:15 |
| ali1234 | or beos | 18:15 |
| penguin42 | or GEM | 18:15 |
| ali1234 | or whatever that thing the atari ST had was | 18:15 |
| penguin42 | that was GEM | 18:15 |
| ali1234 | right. | 18:15 |
| ali1234 | so i can get along with anything in terms of usage | 18:15 |
| ali1234 | but what i can't stand is when things aren't aligned properly and i have to look at it all day | 18:15 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Have you got a bug filed on that? | 18:15 |
| ali1234 | it's like when you go to someones house and the pictures aren't straight and you really want to go and straighten them out but you can't and it drives you nuts | 18:16 |
| ali1234 | i filed a bug about the KDE alignment thing | 18:16 |
| penguin42 | yeh, you see given the untidyness of this room I can't really help on that | 18:16 |
| ali1234 | it was closed WONTFIX because it can't be fixed without rewriting the whole of KDE | 18:16 |
| jutnux | ali1234: Cinnamon is a Gnome-shell fork which might tickle your fanciness. | 18:16 |
| jutnux | fancy* | 18:16 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Hmm I hate that - was that filed in LP or in KDE? | 18:17 |
| ali1234 | KDE | 18:17 |
| ali1234 | hang on | 18:17 |
| ali1234 | https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106 | 18:17 |
| lubotu3 | KDE bug 283106 in general "Button text vertical alignment is off with Oxygen theme " [Normal,Resolved: wontfix] | 18:17 |
| ali1234 | this is just one example | 18:17 |
| ali1234 | there are plenty more | 18:18 |
| ali1234 | but i gave up after that one | 18:18 |
| ali1234 | because they just have excuses and excuses for why they can't fix it | 18:18 |
| ali1234 | http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=64183 pretty much explains it | 18:18 |
| penguin42 | hmm I'm not sure that example is correct | 18:19 |
| jutnux | Tell you what though | 18:19 |
| jutnux | Gnome Shell's workspaces are annoying me | 18:19 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: well, you'll have to read the whole bug and let me know | 18:20 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Yeh I'm just reading | 18:20 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Hmm I think I can see what he's arguing | 18:22 |
| ali1234 | in the end i prefer something that is over-designed (unity or gnome-shell) to something that is under-designed (KDE) | 18:27 |
| ali1234 | (or XFCE) | 18:28 |
| ali1234 | XFCE has all these alignment and font issues too | 18:28 |
| ali1234 | except they are much worse because XFCE has almost no developers behind it | 18:28 |
| ali1234 | but it's mitigated by XFCE using Gtk which gives it a bit of a head-start | 18:29 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Nod; I suspect people think that adding a drop shadow here and there can't be that hard and then trip over the details | 18:29 |
| ali1234 | exactly | 18:29 |
| ali1234 | KDE should ban drop shadows and gradients in 5.0 | 18:30 |
| ali1234 | in the defaults | 18:30 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: There are some people who prefer a pretty drop shadow and don't care about the misalignment | 18:30 |
| ali1234 | drop shadows aren't pretty | 18:30 |
| ali1234 | especially when they are horribly over used | 18:30 |
| ali1234 | they are a tool to convey information like everything else | 18:31 |
| penguin42 | I believe that's called a matter of opinion; personally they don't do much for me but I don't dislike them | 18:31 |
| ali1234 | but when everything has one they become meaningless | 18:31 |
| ali1234 | it's like when the manager comes in and says "bold text stands out so please make the entire website be in bold text" | 18:31 |
| ali1234 | that's KDE in a nutshell :) | 18:32 |
| gord | terrifying idea of the day; have a text to speech engine record your voice after you open a web page and automatically insert your reaction into a comment | 18:35 |
| gord | would make facebook more interesting | 18:35 |
| penguin42 | one for halfbakery | 18:36 |
| ali1234 | reaction images are so much more expressive though | 18:36 |
| AlanBell | gord: I think youtube has that feature already | 18:36 |
| AlanBell | judging by the comments | 18:36 |
| jacobw | gord: lol | 18:40 |
| gord | i see jacobw already has the technology working | 18:40 |
| jacobw | ha | 18:40 |
| jacobw | yes :p | 18:40 |
| * czajkowski hugs gord | 18:47 | |
| gord | all working now? | 18:48 |
| czajkowski | yup | 18:48 |
| bigcalm_lappy | Afternoon all | 18:48 |
| gord | cool, you might want to make sure your on archive.ubuntu.com instead of a local mirror when running dev releases, they can really lag behind | 18:49 |
| gord | thought occured to me earlier ^ | 18:49 |
| czajkowski | hmm ok | 18:50 |
| czajkowski | was missing a kernel update also which had to do manually | 18:50 |
| AlanBell | http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:8000/ do you see stuff happening there? | 19:13 |
| jacobw | yes | 19:14 |
| AlanBell | great | 19:14 |
| * AlanBell loves Ubuntu | 19:14 | |
| jacobw | are you logging tool tips | 19:14 |
| AlanBell | not quite | 19:14 |
| AlanBell | it is orca the screen reader which sends text to speech dispatcher, which I redirected to a file | 19:14 |
| AlanBell | and a node.js webserver doing tail -f on the file | 19:15 |
| AlanBell | all in a virtualbox vm | 19:15 |
| jacobw | that's cool :) | 19:15 |
| AlanBell | so I can navigate about the desktop and people can see what orca would be saying | 19:15 |
| AlanBell | I will make it a two way thing as well, so you can send keystrokes back and control the desktop, but this is what I wanted to get working for now | 19:16 |
| jutnux | http://i.imgur.com/GrWYI.jpg | 19:17 |
| * SuperEngineer starts campaign to stop people using the word "lappy"... eeuuuu... yuk... horible... bad word! | 19:28 | |
| ali1234 | i'm trying to test the unity from oneiric-proposed but it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop | 19:28 |
| penguin42 | Jaguar Land Rover had a full page job ad in the Times weekend section - must have cost a fortune; surprising they're finding it that hard to find people | 19:59 |
| * hamitron goes to website to look | 20:01 | |
| mattt | evening | 20:24 |
| Laney | greetings | 20:26 |
| Laney | saturday night with TLPI. rock and indeed roll | 20:26 |
| mattt | TLPI? | 20:28 |
| Laney | http://man7.org/tlpi/ | 20:30 |
| mattt | Laney: that's an interesting looking book | 20:39 |
| Laney | it is a weighty tome | 20:39 |
| jacobw | http://gizmodo.com/5627807/bubbling-tricks-your-mind-to-makes-anyone-naked | 21:17 |
| jacobw | wow | 21:17 |
| penguin42 | jacobw: That's erm neat! | 21:28 |
| * penguin42 waits for the test cases | 21:28 | |
| jutnux | Got to love Bitfolk upgrading the Bandwidth for free \o/ | 21:42 |
| RaycisCharles | Virgin Media also promised to double my internets to 100mbit...sometime in the next 18 months. | 21:43 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: Have they said anything about upstream bandwidth and what about any form of cap/shaping? | 21:44 |
| gord | thats nice. i get 3mbit. | 21:44 |
| jutnux | I meant my server provider but hey, Virgin Media is awesome too. | 21:44 |
| jutnux | gord: I get 5. I feel your pain. | 21:44 |
| gord | thats almost double mine, no you don't ;P | 21:44 |
| RaycisCharles | penguin42: there are no caps on any Virgin plan, or shaping on the 50 or 100 plans. | 21:45 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: how much are the 50/100 plans? | 21:45 |
| RaycisCharles | I don't expect that to change, especially since BT now have their own uncapped unshaped ADSL (or is it GayDSL? Ehehehehe) plan. | 21:45 |
| * penguin42 can't get Infinity here :-( | 21:45 | |
| RaycisCharles | I think I pay £35/mo for just 50Mbit, without phone or TV. | 21:45 |
| penguin42 | (very annoying since the exchange is enabled) | 21:46 |
| RaycisCharles | Now that's pretty damn good considering I get 50Mbit 95% of the time and there are no data caps. | 21:46 |
| RaycisCharles | I've downloaded about 200gb a month for the last...year? | 21:46 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: That's not too bad - I pay about ~23 for ADSL2 getting ~11Mbps and a fixed IP for that (I could probably find that cheaper) | 21:47 |
| RaycisCharles | Also, I ge 5Mbit up. | 21:47 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: Oh, now 5Mbit up is nice | 21:47 |
| RaycisCharles | In reality, it's 50.5MBit down, about 4.8Mbit up. | 21:47 |
| RaycisCharles | I want that lost 200Kbit/s dammit. | 21:47 |
| RaycisCharles | All the technical merits are with cable. | 21:48 |
| penguin42 | it's probably one level of protocol overhead somewhere | 21:48 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: I think Infinity can get a higher upstream bandwidth | 21:48 |
| gord | 4mbit up isn't great really, i get 1mbit up on my crappy connection | 21:48 |
| gord | 5* | 21:48 |
| RaycisCharles | penguin42, "up to". | 21:48 |
| penguin42 | gord: True, but it's still more than that 1mbit | 21:48 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: What are typical download rates you get when pulling ubuntu updates? | 21:49 |
| RaycisCharles | gord, it's pretty difficult to offer 50Mbit synchronous unless you have dedicated circuits. | 21:49 |
| gord | i think the technical merrits are with fibre | 21:49 |
| RaycisCharles | penguin42, I don't even run Ubuntu. | 21:49 |
| RaycisCharles | gord, well, cable is fibre to the cabinet IIRC. | 21:49 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: Sheesh :-) Well anything equivalent | 21:50 |
| RaycisCharles | The last hundred yards is coax. | 21:50 |
| RaycisCharles | penguin42: um, it maxes out my connection when I download a *nix ISO. | 21:50 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: It's fibre to the cab and yeh last bit is coax, but I'm fairly sure there is contention at various points at the cab and in the fibre network | 21:50 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: But hey, if it maxes for you then that's good | 21:50 |
| RaycisCharles | penguin42, yeah, but the contention ratio is lower for cable than ADSL. | 21:51 |
| gord | fibre to the home is quite obviously the way forward ;) | 21:51 |
| gord | long run | 21:51 |
| RaycisCharles | It's about 20:1 for cable and 30:1 for ADSL IIRC. | 21:51 |
| penguin42 | gord: Agreed | 21:51 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: ADSL varies heavily depending on provider, anything upto 50 I think | 21:51 |
| RaycisCharles | And the simple fact is the technology means almost all cable customers get the advertised speed, whilst almost no ADSL customers get the advertised speed. | 21:51 |
| RaycisCharles | ADSL2+ maxes out at 24Mbit/s doesn't it? | 21:52 |
| penguin42 | nod | 21:52 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: I meant 50:1 | 21:52 |
| RaycisCharles | Oh. | 21:52 |
| RaycisCharles | What I want to see is Virgin's exchanges opened up to third parties. | 21:52 |
| RaycisCharles | They have a monopoly on cable... | 21:52 |
| RaycisCharles | Unless you live in Hull. | 21:53 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: So you don't have to deal with them? | 21:53 |
| RaycisCharles | Well, don't all telco/TV/mobile companies have shitty customer support? | 21:53 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: The difficulty is that most of their equipment isn't in the exchange - it's in the street cabs (same for BT infinity) - so what do you give a 3rd party access to? | 21:53 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: There are one or two with good support - but they cost | 21:54 |
| RaycisCharles | penguin42, whatever they need to provide cable competition to Virgin. | 21:54 |
| RaycisCharles | The thing is, Virgin's actual cable service is top notch. It's because the service they provide is much lower than what they're capable of. | 21:54 |
| gord | sounds like a bad deal for virgin | 21:54 |
| penguin42 | RaycisCharles: It's pretty hard to see how; don't forget with BT LLU, Openreach still deal with the copper | 21:55 |
| SuperEngineer | How to tell if you're *human* or ad exec. A *human* wouldn't run an advert today extolling pleasures of cruises - would they you P&O idiots. | 21:55 |
| RaycisCharles | Who cares? It's a good deal for society. | 21:55 |
| penguin42 | SuperEngineer: Oops | 21:55 |
| RaycisCharles | SuperEngineer: they would run an advert today extolling the pleasures of land-based activities. | 21:55 |
| gord | virgin prolly cares | 21:55 |
| RaycisCharles | Welsh tourist board: "Climb Ben Nevis; you'll never drown." | 21:56 |
| gord | if other companies want to get in there, they'll have to lay their own cable | 21:56 |
| RaycisCharles | Well I suppose. | 21:56 |
| penguin42 | gord: Well it would be difficult for them to object given getting BT to open up | 21:56 |
| RaycisCharles | BT were a state monopoly. | 21:56 |
| RaycisCharles | Virgin are a private monopoly. | 21:56 |
| RaycisCharles | They bought out all their cable competition. | 21:57 |
| RaycisCharles | Apart from Hull, which is a shithole. | 21:57 |
| penguin42 | gord: But I can't see a good technical solution | 21:57 |
| gord | simple fact is that if you want a competitor to virgin, its adsl/fibre - like me, i could get fibre here, but it would be through BT and i hate BT with a firey passion, so i don't | 21:58 |
| RaycisCharles | gord why do you hate BT? | 22:02 |
| RaycisCharles | How could you, after those wonderful Kris Marshall adverts? | 22:02 |
| RaycisCharles | (Those were the most excruciatingly painfully bad adverts EVER.) | 22:02 |
| RaycisCharles | Twatosaur wants to bone chubs girl with annoying kids. JOIN BT!! | 22:03 |
| RaycisCharles | gord, ADSL isn't a competitor so long as you 1) need to buy a BT phone line, and 2) you only get 1/3rd of the "up to 24Mbit" speed on average | 22:04 |
| gord | i don't think you understand what the word competitor is; to restate, i choose adsl through Be, because i perfer the service they give through ADSL than the service BT gives through infinity | 22:06 |
| gord | you just prefer virgin to adsl | 22:07 |
| RaycisCharles | I didn't mean ADSL was literally not a competitor. | 22:12 |
| RaycisCharles | I'm saying it's a no-brainer if you look at the internet service and pricing, although the customer service is a nightmare. | 22:12 |
| zleap | !seen Paln | 22:48 |
| lubotu3 | I have no seen command | 22:48 |
| zleap | !lastseen Paln | 22:48 |
| zleap | !lastseen Pal | 22:49 |
| zleap | !lastseen Paln | 22:49 |
| jacobw | stop interograting poor lubotu3 | 22:50 |
| zleap | sorry | 22:51 |
| bigcalm_lappy | I think you can do that in private message | 22:55 |
| AlanBell | and it doesn't have that functionality | 22:56 |
| bigcalm_lappy | One could ask nickserv | 22:59 |
| jutnux | popey: When is your support tool going to be open for use? :-) | 23:42 |
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