=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === cgriff_ is now known as cgriff [02:03] *vertigo grin* [02:05] http://redux.com/f/1177077/Programmer-Husband is it just me or should this be 7 loaves of bread, not 6. [08:12] is thare a link show me how setup VPM server for wifi connect ? [08:57] morning all [08:58] hello MooDoo [09:02] hi Timecop, how are you, but you knew i was already going to say that didn't you ;) [09:51] morning people o/ [09:52] morning [09:54] yoez [09:54] hiya [09:54] anyone off to one of the london irish games today? [10:53] \o [10:53] howzit MartijnVdS [10:54] Aloha [10:54] * MartijnVdS is playing with photos [10:54] * jutnux pokes MartijnVdS [10:54] Howdy people [10:55] apparently there's a driver for the Selphy printer line [10:55] (photo printers) [10:58] hello MartijnVdS czajkowski jutnux [10:59] Hiho. [11:00] I'm actually quite impressed with the print quality of this thing [11:20] Hi all, what IP do you get if you ping www.canoncopiers.biz ? [11:20] www.canoncopiers.biz has address 176.9.228.203 [11:21] :-D [11:21] www.canoncopiers.biz. 21579 IN A 176.9.228.203 [11:21] Great. glad our customer told us he was going to move his dns records this weekend [11:22] 21579 looks like a great TTL for a host that's going to be updated [11:22] ಠ_ಠ [11:22] This is the new host. [11:22] ah [11:23] It's a *really* old website - we have moved from a shared host to a dedicated VM. [11:23] for our own protection. [11:23] They are talking too long to decide if they want to update it or not. [11:23] "It's not broken yet is it? Then why risk it?" [11:23] Indeed. [11:24] No patches or security updates since 2008 :-( [11:24] :'( [11:24] I've now stuck it on it's own 8.04 LTS server. [11:25] so they have another year or so to decide [11:25] At least it is now reasonably isolated. [11:28] good morning everyone, [11:29] \o [11:29] o/ [11:43] hmm my date/time is gone from the bar on top [11:43] most annoying [11:44] irssi shows the time, but I agree it should be in the top bar [11:44] must be a bug [11:44] yeah I've irris but i always look at date/time up beide the the wifi icon [11:44] very odd it missing [11:44] gord: what did you break!!!! [11:54] czajkowski, unity? sounds like your missing the date time indicator [11:54] apt-cache policy indicator-datetime [11:54] gord: indeed where is it gone or is there a bug filled [11:54] I'd like it back please [11:54] czajkowski, if its just that your missing the package, sounds like a packaging thing, something conflicted and it got removed without you noticing. just have to reinstall [11:55] *mutters* [11:55] so apt-get install indicator-datetime ? [11:55] should be [11:55] then relogin [11:55] gord: hm, it was missing here as well -- upgrade to unity 5 broke it I guess [11:56] crazy people using ppa's ;) [11:56] gord: certified ;) [11:56] Package indicator-datetime is not available, but is referred to by another package. [11:56] This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or [11:56] is only available from another source [11:56] However the following packages replace it: indicator-datetime-gtk2:i386 indicator-datetime-gtk2 [11:56] E: Package 'indicator-datetime' has no installation candidaI'm not using a PPA [11:56] grr [11:57] czajkowski, precice then? [11:57] gord: yup [11:57] it was there yesterday [11:58] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271 then I had to do some spring cleaning due to that annoying bug [11:58] Ubuntu bug 915271 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "package libreoffice-core 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: rmdir: failed to remove `usr/lib/libreoffice/basis3.4/program/': Directory not empty" [Undecided,New] [12:36] afternoon [12:37] not long until the millionth bug [12:37] I reckon popey will file it! [12:38] afternoonings danfish [12:38] o/ [12:38] o/ [12:41] it's really rather nice out today [12:41] agreed, it looks sunny and cold. [12:41] a day for walks and pubs - so why am I inside? [12:42] * brobostigon is inside, because he is ill. [12:42] :( [12:42] :( [12:42] agreed. [12:42] In the rapper/street sense of the word, or the bad sense of it? [12:42] danfish: fluclox and aciclovir time again. [12:42] brobostigon: "the usual" [12:42] Antivirals? Yikes. [12:42] danfish: more or less, yes. [12:43] MartijnVdS: you are so down wiv da kidz [12:43] Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ? === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [12:43] MartijnVdS: agreed, yes. but neccessery. [12:45] in theory it shouls stabilise out fairly quickly, and then improve from there. [12:45] brobostigon: if the doctor who prescribed those is called 'Norton' or 'McAfee'... :) [12:46] MartijnVdS: haha, no. [12:46] brobostigon: maybe he's a pirate? (Avast!) [12:46] MartijnVdS: my dermatologist is called venning, [12:47] * acperkins wonders how many Dr Watsons there are [12:47] "Venning". That's what it's called when you're making the diagrams [12:47] there's a urologist locally called John Dick [12:47] I kid you not [12:47] MartijnVdS: either i am not following or something isnt making sense, i simply am not understanding what you are getting at. [12:48] brobostigon: Venn diagrams :) Just making fun of names really [12:48] MartijnVdS: oh, i see, ok. [12:48] brobostigon: trying to help you with humour! ;) [12:49] MartijnVdS: i totally missed it, sorry. thank you. [12:50] brobostigon: You're probably used to the somewhat higher standards of British humour.. ;) [12:50] * danfish searches the gmc register for watsons for acperkins and crashes the site :/ [12:50] brobostigon: and I'm only Dutch [12:51] MartijnVdS: i am just no good at humour, really. [12:51] danfish: doctor watson? [12:51] acperkins: 419 registered Dr Watsons in the UK [12:51] danfish: no Doc Ock? [12:51] MartijnVdS: have a look here - www.gmc-uk.org [12:53] * brobostigon should probebly try and have something to eat, even if he doesnt feel like it. [12:57] danfish: when I worked at IBM, there was a Mal Reynolds and a Simon Tam in Bluepages... [12:59] gordonjcp: heh [12:59] also, 20-odd years ago when my mum went in for thyroid surgery, her ENT specialist was called Dr Crippen... [13:00] there's an aviation expert (who gets interviewed on TV when some kind of air crash happens) called "Baksteen" ("brick") [13:01] heh [13:01] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism :) [13:09] gordonjcp: there's an EDS specialist named Dr. Tinkle. We keep saying he should be a urologist [13:09] (well, in the UK he'd probably be Prof Tinkle, but still) [13:10] * brobostigon returns with toast, [13:11] toast is good [13:12] yes, just plain toast, alittle margerine, easy on my tummy, [13:14] TOASSSTTTT [13:14] nomnomnom [13:16] hmm, time for breakfast then :-) [13:50] Afternoon all [13:51] howdy [13:52] Hi MooDoo [14:33] Afternoon all. [14:35] good afternoon [14:44] howdy [15:28] Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ? [15:29] try the NLUG mailing list [15:29] p.s. more Nottingham people in here - yay [15:30] Hey Laney [15:30] guess ur from notts too [15:30] oh yes [15:31] cool bean ... what area [15:31] live in beeston [15:31] ah just down road... [15:32] yeah? [15:32] yep . [15:32] let me guess... long eaton [15:34] nope [15:35] :( [15:41] popey: regarding screencasting, how do you switch between nouveau and nvidia with a minimum of fuss? [15:44] ali1234: jockey-gtk? [15:44] i said a minimum of fuss not a maximum [15:44] ali1234: jockey-text? [15:44] jockey eats my xorg.conf every time i try to use it [15:44] basically, it's garbage [15:45] you have to reboot, because the nvidia kernel module can't be unloaded [15:45] also, you probably need to deinstall the package containing it, or it'll be autoloaded [15:45] great. that has nothing to do with jockey [15:45] ali1234: that's dpkg or apt, yes [15:45] also, jockey doesn't have nouveau as an option, just several different binary drivers [15:46] it has on/off as options for the binary driver(s) afaik? [15:46] also, you don't need to remove the nvidia kernel binary to use nouveau [15:46] turn off all binary drivers -> nouveau! [15:46] because if nothing uses it, it doesn't do anything [15:46] so what i'm actually going to do is backup xorg.conf, delete it, then reboot [15:47] good luck [16:31] why does it always end up with a frozen machine every time i try to use nouveau? [16:32] oh well, i managed to record my screencasts [16:39] Afternoon [17:30] Hi [17:30] is there a way to batch print PDF documents in Ubuntu ? [17:31] For example in TB client [17:31] I have an option lpr *.pdf [17:32] but any better way to do it ? [17:38] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlpdfmtVGA [17:39] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/916542 [17:39] Ubuntu bug 916542 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity spread "randomly" shuffles overlapping windows" [Undecided,New] [17:40] Surely they're just arranging in the last opened order? [17:40] nope [17:40] if that were true, then why do the windows that i don't select also shuffle around? [17:41] Because you have selected them before so they re-arrange? [17:41] that doesn't make any sense [17:41] I can't express what I mean properly. [17:42] the windows were opened in order 1 to 9 [17:42] look at the spread arrangement after i make them over lap the very first time [17:43] Oh yes [17:43] So I see [17:43] i arrange them all in order as well [17:43] then first time clicking spread i get order: 1 2 8 4 3 7 6 5 9 [17:43] it's obviously not truely random [17:44] it just doesn't make any sense and is impossible to predict [17:44] hence "random" [17:46] when you combine that random shuffling with a bunch of windows that all look the same, such as these: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/crZSFsw3MXM [17:46] the result is exceptionally irritating [17:48] * jutnux looks [17:48] Ah yes. [17:49] I thought you didn't use Unity ali1234? [17:49] i've used it every day since natty beta was released [17:49] i still hate it [17:49] but i hate it slightly less than KDE or gnome shell [17:54] I've actually started to like Gnome SHell [17:54] Shell [17:54] I'll probably hate it soon. [17:56] ali1234: have you tried xfce? [17:56] gnome shell has all the same flaws an unity, plus it doesn't support multimonitor [17:57] xfce doesn't support DPI properly, or indicators, or notifications [17:57] ali1234: Multi monitor is working fine for me on Gnome Shell. [17:57] ali1234: I'm curious about the DPI comment; I suspect that's more general across multiple desktops these days - I think that might be changeable in the X server config [17:58] penguin42: I was able to change the DPI in XFCE, I think. [17:58] ali1234: One of the problems is that a global DPI for all monitors in a X desktop is silly since they aren't all the same [17:58] penguin42: it has nothing to do with monitors [17:58] penguin42: under gnome or unity or kde, firefox fonts are the same size as fonts on the panels for example [17:59] under xfce, they are not [17:59] ali1234: Oh I see, hmm ok, that's fair [17:59] in fact, under xfce, it is impossible to make xfce panels have the same sized fonts as, well, every other piece of software ever made [17:59] you can have them either slightly smaller, or slightly larger [17:59] even if you go to decimal point sizes you can't do it [18:00] ali1234: I assume you've filed a bug on it? [18:00] this used to be a problem in KDE as well but they've more or less fixed it now [18:00] penguin42: i wouldn't know what to file it against [18:01] and given that xfce only has about 3 developers and hasn;t changed at all since 5 years ago, it didn't seem like a worthwhile use of my time [18:01] ali1234: xfce4-panel ? [18:01] it's not just xfce-panel [18:01] its xfce-everything [18:01] panel, control panels, thunar [18:01] the lot [18:01] ali1234: It's best to file it on a vgauely right package rather than not file it at all [18:02] ali1234: libxfce4ui-1-0 or the like? [18:03] i only tried XFCE for about half an hour just to humour the people who constantly suggest it [18:03] honestly it is significantly worse than gnome 2 was [18:03] it's like gnome 2 copied by people who have no idea what they are doing [18:03] I use XFCE on multi monitor and it seems fine [18:03] Admittedly I swapped out half the DE though [18:03] As much as I liked Gnome 2 I do think it needs to move on. [18:04] and jutnux: gnome-shell doesn't have multiple monitor support by design [18:04] any monitor after the first does not participate in window switching [18:04] which is absolutely useless [18:04] I use compiz so I assume that doesn't affect me [18:04] ali1234: I sympathise with the choice of using the desktop you hate least - it's not a good situation [18:05] XFCE + Compiz + Nautilus + Cairo-dock instead of xfce-panel [18:05] works well for me [18:05] I use gnome-shell with Docky [18:06] yea but I'm on quad monitor :P [18:06] docks are bloody awful [18:06] I'd prefer a bottom panel [18:06] see bug report ^ [18:06] lol [18:06] Azelphur: Nice :-) [18:06] if they didn't insist on using a dock, i wouldn't have this problem [18:06] ali1234: who insists? [18:06] because i'd have a window list that actually made it possible to tell what the windows actually are [18:07] Azelphur: the desktop design team [18:07] ali1234: ah :P [18:07] but surely you can just rip out what you don't like and replace it, as I've done [18:07] one thing is for sure. unity is the best looking desktop by a long long way [18:08] and since i have to look at it a lot that's a big bonus for why i use it [18:08] in contrast, KDE and XFCE look terrible, and gnome-shell is only mildly bad [18:08] however, i've found that desktop developers don't like bug reports that say "your desktop looks ugly" [18:09] see I like the KDE look [18:09] lol [18:09] BAH [18:09] out of all open source software ever made there are basically only two themes that look decent ever made [18:09] distorted audio after upgrading to precise [18:09] Laney: Mooo! [18:10] and both of those themes only work on gtk2 [18:10] also graphics fail means i can't play super meat boy :( [18:10] and also both of them were paid for by canonical [18:10] Laney: Report! [18:10] yes [18:11] KDE looks like widget soup [18:11] also nthing is ever aligned properly [18:11] mmm soup [18:11] but it turns out actually things are aligned properly, it's just that the themes are badly designed so when stuff is aligned, it looks like it isn't [18:11] and this can't be fixed due to the design of KDE [18:12] this mainly affects things like drop shadows [18:12] because they are bigger down one side [18:12] of course, every single KDE theme has multiple drop shadows and gradients on everything [18:12] so pretty much KDE can only look awful [18:12] if you switch it to using the Gtk decorator for everything then you can make it look semi-decent [18:13] yeh but that often breaks [18:13] because then you have available themes that don't have dropshadows and gradients everywhere [18:13] yes, i was coming to that. the gtk decorator is quite buggy, especially with kwin compositing [18:13] so yeah, that's why i don't use KDE [18:13] ali1234: You tried cinnamon? [18:14] no i never heard of it [18:14] ali1234: See I guess we have different priorities - I don't actually care too much about the style; I care more about features and things working and being easy for me - and that balance is KDE least-worse at the moment (although there is annoying bug in PP at the moment) [18:14] as i said the other day. i started using computers before the GUI was invented and i've used some really truely difficult to use ones [18:15] none of the current ones are as bad as, say, windows 3.1 [18:15] or beos [18:15] or GEM [18:15] or whatever that thing the atari ST had was [18:15] that was GEM [18:15] right. [18:15] so i can get along with anything in terms of usage [18:15] but what i can't stand is when things aren't aligned properly and i have to look at it all day [18:15] ali1234: Have you got a bug filed on that? [18:16] it's like when you go to someones house and the pictures aren't straight and you really want to go and straighten them out but you can't and it drives you nuts [18:16] i filed a bug about the KDE alignment thing [18:16] yeh, you see given the untidyness of this room I can't really help on that [18:16] it was closed WONTFIX because it can't be fixed without rewriting the whole of KDE [18:16] ali1234: Cinnamon is a Gnome-shell fork which might tickle your fanciness. [18:16] fancy* [18:17] ali1234: Hmm I hate that - was that filed in LP or in KDE? [18:17] KDE [18:17] hang on [18:17] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106 [18:17] KDE bug 283106 in general "Button text vertical alignment is off with Oxygen theme " [Normal,Resolved: wontfix] [18:17] this is just one example [18:18] there are plenty more [18:18] but i gave up after that one [18:18] because they just have excuses and excuses for why they can't fix it [18:18] http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=64183 pretty much explains it [18:19] hmm I'm not sure that example is correct [18:19] Tell you what though [18:19] Gnome Shell's workspaces are annoying me [18:20] penguin42: well, you'll have to read the whole bug and let me know [18:20] ali1234: Yeh I'm just reading [18:22] ali1234: Hmm I think I can see what he's arguing [18:27] in the end i prefer something that is over-designed (unity or gnome-shell) to something that is under-designed (KDE) [18:28] (or XFCE) [18:28] XFCE has all these alignment and font issues too [18:28] except they are much worse because XFCE has almost no developers behind it [18:29] but it's mitigated by XFCE using Gtk which gives it a bit of a head-start [18:29] ali1234: Nod; I suspect people think that adding a drop shadow here and there can't be that hard and then trip over the details [18:29] exactly [18:30] KDE should ban drop shadows and gradients in 5.0 [18:30] in the defaults [18:30] ali1234: There are some people who prefer a pretty drop shadow and don't care about the misalignment [18:30] drop shadows aren't pretty [18:30] especially when they are horribly over used [18:31] they are a tool to convey information like everything else [18:31] I believe that's called a matter of opinion; personally they don't do much for me but I don't dislike them [18:31] but when everything has one they become meaningless [18:31] it's like when the manager comes in and says "bold text stands out so please make the entire website be in bold text" [18:32] that's KDE in a nutshell :) [18:35] terrifying idea of the day; have a text to speech engine record your voice after you open a web page and automatically insert your reaction into a comment [18:35] would make facebook more interesting [18:36] one for halfbakery [18:36] reaction images are so much more expressive though [18:36] gord: I think youtube has that feature already [18:36] judging by the comments [18:40] gord: lol [18:40] i see jacobw already has the technology working [18:40] ha [18:40] yes :p [18:47] * czajkowski hugs gord [18:48] all working now? [18:48] yup [18:48] Afternoon all [18:49] cool, you might want to make sure your on archive.ubuntu.com instead of a local mirror when running dev releases, they can really lag behind [18:49] thought occured to me earlier ^ [18:50] hmm ok [18:50] was missing a kernel update also which had to do manually [19:13] http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:8000/ do you see stuff happening there? [19:14] yes [19:14] great [19:14] * AlanBell loves Ubuntu [19:14] are you logging tool tips [19:14] not quite [19:14] it is orca the screen reader which sends text to speech dispatcher, which I redirected to a file [19:15] and a node.js webserver doing tail -f on the file [19:15] all in a virtualbox vm [19:15] that's cool :) [19:15] so I can navigate about the desktop and people can see what orca would be saying [19:16] I will make it a two way thing as well, so you can send keystrokes back and control the desktop, but this is what I wanted to get working for now [19:17] http://i.imgur.com/GrWYI.jpg [19:28] * SuperEngineer starts campaign to stop people using the word "lappy"... eeuuuu... yuk... horible... bad word! [19:28] i'm trying to test the unity from oneiric-proposed but it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop [19:59] Jaguar Land Rover had a full page job ad in the Times weekend section - must have cost a fortune; surprising they're finding it that hard to find people [20:01] * hamitron goes to website to look [20:24] evening [20:26] greetings [20:26] saturday night with TLPI. rock and indeed roll [20:28] TLPI? [20:30] http://man7.org/tlpi/ [20:39] Laney: that's an interesting looking book [20:39] it is a weighty tome [21:17] http://gizmodo.com/5627807/bubbling-tricks-your-mind-to-makes-anyone-naked [21:17] wow [21:28] jacobw: That's erm neat! [21:28] * penguin42 waits for the test cases [21:42] Got to love Bitfolk upgrading the Bandwidth for free \o/ [21:43] Virgin Media also promised to double my internets to 100mbit...sometime in the next 18 months. [21:44] RaycisCharles: Have they said anything about upstream bandwidth and what about any form of cap/shaping? [21:44] thats nice. i get 3mbit. [21:44] I meant my server provider but hey, Virgin Media is awesome too. [21:44] gord: I get 5. I feel your pain. [21:44] thats almost double mine, no you don't ;P [21:45] penguin42: there are no caps on any Virgin plan, or shaping on the 50 or 100 plans. [21:45] RaycisCharles: how much are the 50/100 plans? [21:45] I don't expect that to change, especially since BT now have their own uncapped unshaped ADSL (or is it GayDSL? Ehehehehe) plan. [21:45] * penguin42 can't get Infinity here :-( [21:45] I think I pay £35/mo for just 50Mbit, without phone or TV. [21:46] (very annoying since the exchange is enabled) [21:46] Now that's pretty damn good considering I get 50Mbit 95% of the time and there are no data caps. [21:46] I've downloaded about 200gb a month for the last...year? [21:47] RaycisCharles: That's not too bad - I pay about ~23 for ADSL2 getting ~11Mbps and a fixed IP for that (I could probably find that cheaper) [21:47] Also, I ge 5Mbit up. [21:47] RaycisCharles: Oh, now 5Mbit up is nice [21:47] In reality, it's 50.5MBit down, about 4.8Mbit up. [21:47] I want that lost 200Kbit/s dammit. [21:48] All the technical merits are with cable. [21:48] it's probably one level of protocol overhead somewhere [21:48] RaycisCharles: I think Infinity can get a higher upstream bandwidth [21:48] 4mbit up isn't great really, i get 1mbit up on my crappy connection [21:48] 5* [21:48] penguin42, "up to". [21:48] gord: True, but it's still more than that 1mbit [21:49] RaycisCharles: What are typical download rates you get when pulling ubuntu updates? [21:49] gord, it's pretty difficult to offer 50Mbit synchronous unless you have dedicated circuits. [21:49] i think the technical merrits are with fibre [21:49]