[02:03] <KrimZon> *vertigo grin*
[02:05] <Azelphur> http://redux.com/f/1177077/Programmer-Husband is it just me or should this be 7 loaves of bread, not 6.
[08:12] <Timecop> is thare a link show me how setup VPM server for wifi connect ?
[08:57] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:58] <Timecop> hello MooDoo
[09:02] <MooDoo> hi Timecop, how are you, but you knew i was already going to say that didn't you ;)
[09:51] <AlanBell> morning people o/
[09:52] <MooDoo> morning
[09:54] <mattt> yoez
[09:54] <dwatkins> hiya
[09:54] <mattt> anyone off to one of the london irish games today?
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:53] <mattt> howzit MartijnVdS
[10:54] <czajkowski> Aloha
[10:54]  * MartijnVdS is playing with photos
[10:54]  * jutnux pokes MartijnVdS
[10:54] <jutnux> Howdy people
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> apparently there's a driver for the Selphy printer line
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> (photo printers)
[10:58] <MooDoo> hello MartijnVdS czajkowski jutnux
[10:59] <jutnux> Hiho.
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> I'm actually quite impressed with the print quality of this thing
[11:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hi all, what IP do you get if you ping www.canoncopiers.biz ?
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> www.canoncopiers.biz has address 176.9.228.203
[11:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> www.canoncopiers.biz.	21579	IN	A	176.9.228.203
[11:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great. <sarcasm>glad our customer told us he was going to move his dns records this weekend</sarcasm>
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> 21579 looks like a great TTL for a host that's going to be updated
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[11:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is the new host.
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> ah
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's a *really* old website - we have moved from a shared host to a dedicated VM.
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> for our own protection.
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> They are talking too long to decide if they want to update it or not.
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> "It's not broken yet is it? Then why risk it?"
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> No patches or security updates since 2008 :-(
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> :'(
[11:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've now stuck it on it's own 8.04 LTS server.
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> so they have another year or so to decide
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> At least it is now reasonably isolated.
[11:28] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> \o
[11:29] <brobostigon> o/
[11:43] <czajkowski> hmm my date/time is gone from the bar on top
[11:43] <czajkowski> most annoying
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> irssi shows the time, but I agree it should be in the top bar
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> must be a bug
[11:44] <czajkowski> yeah I've irris but i always look at date/time up beide the the wifi icon
[11:44] <czajkowski> very odd it missing
[11:44] <czajkowski> gord: what did you break!!!!
[11:54] <gord> czajkowski, unity? sounds like your missing the date time indicator
[11:54] <gord> apt-cache policy indicator-datetime
[11:54] <czajkowski> gord: indeed where is it gone or is there a bug filled
[11:54] <czajkowski> I'd like it back please
[11:54] <gord> czajkowski, if its just that your missing the package, sounds like a packaging thing, something conflicted and it got removed without you noticing. just have to reinstall
[11:55] <czajkowski> *mutters*
[11:55] <czajkowski> so apt-get install indicator-datetime ?
[11:55] <gord> should be
[11:55] <gord> then relogin
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> gord: hm, it was missing here as well -- upgrade to unity 5 broke it I guess
[11:56] <gord> crazy people using ppa's ;)
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> gord: certified ;)
[11:56] <czajkowski> Package indicator-datetime is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[11:56] <czajkowski> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[11:56] <czajkowski> is only available from another source
[11:56] <czajkowski> However the following packages replace it: indicator-datetime-gtk2:i386 indicator-datetime-gtk2
[11:56] <czajkowski> E: Package 'indicator-datetime' has no installation candidaI'm not using a PPA
[11:56] <czajkowski> grr
[11:57] <gord> czajkowski, precice then?
[11:57] <czajkowski> gord: yup
[11:57] <czajkowski> it was there yesterday
[11:58] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271  then I had to do some spring cleaning due to that annoying bug
[12:36] <danfish> afternoon
[12:37] <danfish> not long until the millionth bug
[12:37] <danfish> I reckon popey will file it!
[12:38] <brobostigon> afternoonings danfish
[12:38] <danfish> o/
[12:38] <brobostigon> o/
[12:41] <danfish> it's really rather nice out today
[12:41] <brobostigon> agreed, it looks sunny and cold.
[12:41] <danfish> a day for walks and pubs - so why am I inside?
[12:42]  * brobostigon is inside, because he is ill.
[12:42] <danfish> :(
[12:42] <brobostigon> :(
[12:42] <brobostigon> agreed.
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> In the rapper/street sense of the word, or the bad sense of it?
[12:42] <brobostigon> danfish: fluclox and aciclovir time again.
[12:42] <danfish> brobostigon: "the usual"
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> Antivirals? Yikes.
[12:42] <brobostigon> danfish: more or less, yes.
[12:43] <danfish> MartijnVdS: you are so down wiv da kidz
[12:43] <Neoti> Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ?
[12:43] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: agreed, yes. but neccessery.
[12:45] <brobostigon> in theory it shouls stabilise out fairly quickly, and then improve from there.
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if the doctor who prescribed those is called 'Norton' or 'McAfee'... :)
[12:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, no.
[12:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe he's a pirate? (Avast!)
[12:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my dermatologist is called venning,
[12:47]  * acperkins wonders how many Dr Watsons there are
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> "Venning". That's what it's called when you're making the diagrams
[12:47] <danfish> there's a urologist locally called John Dick
[12:47] <danfish> I kid you not
[12:47] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: either i am not following or something isnt making sense, i simply am not understanding what you are getting at.
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Venn diagrams :) Just making fun of names really
[12:48] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh, i see, ok.
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: trying to help you with humour! ;)
[12:49] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i totally missed it, sorry. thank you.
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: You're probably used to the somewhat higher standards of British humour.. ;)
[12:50]  * danfish searches the gmc register for watsons for acperkins and crashes the site :/
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and I'm only Dutch
[12:51] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am just no good at humour, really.
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> danfish: doctor watson?
[12:51] <danfish> acperkins: 419 registered Dr Watsons in the UK
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> danfish: no Doc Ock?
[12:51] <danfish> MartijnVdS: have a look here - www.gmc-uk.org
[12:53]  * brobostigon should probebly try and have something to eat, even if he doesnt feel like it.
[12:57] <gordonjcp> danfish: when I worked at IBM, there was a Mal Reynolds and a Simon Tam in Bluepages...
[12:59] <danfish> gordonjcp: heh
[12:59] <gordonjcp> also, 20-odd years ago when my mum went in for thyroid surgery, her ENT specialist was called Dr Crippen...
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> there's an aviation expert (who gets interviewed on TV when some kind of air crash happens) called "Baksteen" ("brick")
[13:01] <gordonjcp> heh
[13:01] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism :)
[13:09] <Pendulum> gordonjcp: there's an EDS specialist named Dr. Tinkle. We keep saying he should be a urologist
[13:09] <Pendulum> (well, in the UK he'd probably be Prof Tinkle, but still)
[13:10]  * brobostigon returns with toast,
[13:11] <penguin42> toast is good
[13:12] <brobostigon> yes, just plain toast, alittle margerine, easy on my tummy,
[13:14] <Myrtti> TOASSSTTTT
[13:14] <Myrtti> nomnomnom
[13:16] <penguin42> hmm, time for breakfast then :-)
[13:50] <DJones> Afternoon all
[13:51] <MooDoo> howdy
[13:52] <DJones> Hi MooDoo
[14:33] <jutnux> Afternoon all.
[14:35] <mfraz74> good afternoon
[14:44] <MooDoo> howdy
[15:28] <Neoti> Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ?
[15:29] <Laney> try the NLUG mailing list
[15:29] <Laney> p.s. more Nottingham people in here - yay
[15:30] <Neoti> Hey Laney
[15:30] <Neoti> guess ur from notts too
[15:30] <Laney> oh yes
[15:31] <Neoti> cool bean ... what area
[15:31] <Laney> live in beeston
[15:31] <Neoti> ah just down road...
[15:32] <Laney> yeah?
[15:32] <Neoti> yep .
[15:32] <Laney> let me guess... long eaton
[15:34] <Neoti> nope
[15:35] <Laney> :(
[15:41] <ali1234> popey: regarding screencasting, how do you switch between nouveau and nvidia with a minimum of fuss?
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: jockey-gtk?
[15:44] <ali1234> i said a minimum of fuss not a maximum
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: jockey-text?
[15:44] <ali1234> jockey eats my xorg.conf every time i try to use it
[15:44] <ali1234> basically, it's garbage
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> you have to reboot, because the nvidia kernel module can't be unloaded
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> also, you probably need to deinstall the package containing it, or it'll be autoloaded
[15:45] <ali1234> great. that has nothing to do with jockey
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's dpkg or apt, yes
[15:45] <ali1234> also, jockey doesn't have nouveau as an option, just several different binary drivers
[15:46] <MartijnVdS> it has on/off as options for the binary driver(s) afaik?
[15:46] <ali1234> also, you don't need to remove the nvidia kernel binary to use nouveau
[15:46] <MartijnVdS> turn off all binary drivers -> nouveau!
[15:46] <ali1234> because if nothing uses it, it doesn't do anything
[15:46] <ali1234> so what i'm actually going to do is backup xorg.conf, delete it, then reboot
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> good luck
[16:31] <ali1234> why does it always end up with a frozen machine every time i try to use nouveau?
[16:32] <ali1234> oh well, i managed to record my screencasts
[16:39] <daubers> Afternoon
[17:30] <kaushal> Hi
[17:30] <kaushal> is there a way to batch print PDF documents in Ubuntu ?
[17:31] <kaushal> For example in TB client
[17:31] <kaushal> I have an option lpr *.pdf
[17:32] <kaushal> but any better way to do it ?
[17:38] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlpdfmtVGA
[17:39] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/916542
[17:40] <jutnux> Surely they're just arranging in the last opened order?
[17:40] <ali1234> nope
[17:40] <ali1234> if that were true, then why do the windows that i don't select also shuffle around?
[17:41] <jutnux> Because you have selected them before so they re-arrange?
[17:41] <ali1234> that doesn't make any sense
[17:41] <jutnux> I can't express what I mean properly.
[17:42] <ali1234> the windows were opened in order 1 to 9
[17:42] <ali1234> look at the spread arrangement after i make them over lap the very first time
[17:43] <jutnux> Oh yes
[17:43] <jutnux> So I see
[17:43] <ali1234> i arrange them all in order as well
[17:43] <ali1234> then first time clicking spread i get order: 1 2 8 4 3 7 6 5 9
[17:43] <ali1234> it's obviously not truely random
[17:44] <ali1234> it just doesn't make any sense and is impossible to predict
[17:44] <ali1234> hence "random"
[17:46] <ali1234> when you combine that random shuffling with a bunch of windows that all look the same, such as these: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/crZSFsw3MXM
[17:46] <ali1234> the result is exceptionally irritating
[17:48]  * jutnux looks
[17:48] <jutnux> Ah yes.
[17:49] <jutnux> I thought you didn't use Unity ali1234?
[17:49] <ali1234> i've used it every day since natty beta was released
[17:49] <ali1234> i still hate it
[17:49] <ali1234> but i hate it slightly less than KDE or gnome shell
[17:54] <jutnux> I've actually started to like Gnome SHell
[17:54] <jutnux> Shell
[17:54] <jutnux> I'll probably hate it soon.
[17:56] <jutnux> ali1234: have you tried xfce?
[17:56] <ali1234> gnome shell has all the same flaws an unity, plus it doesn't support multimonitor
[17:57] <ali1234> xfce doesn't support DPI properly, or indicators, or notifications
[17:57] <jutnux> ali1234: Multi monitor is working fine for me on Gnome Shell.
[17:57] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm curious about the DPI comment; I suspect that's more general across multiple desktops these days - I think that might be changeable in the X server config
[17:58] <jutnux> penguin42: I was able to change the DPI in XFCE, I think.
[17:58] <penguin42> ali1234: One of the problems is that a global DPI for all monitors in a X desktop is silly since they aren't all the same
[17:58] <ali1234> penguin42: it has nothing to do with monitors
[17:58] <ali1234> penguin42: under gnome or unity or kde, firefox fonts are the same size as fonts on the panels for example
[17:59] <ali1234> under xfce, they are not
[17:59] <penguin42> ali1234: Oh I see, hmm ok, that's fair
[17:59] <ali1234> in fact, under xfce, it is impossible to make xfce panels have the same sized fonts as, well, every other piece of software ever made
[17:59] <ali1234> you can have them either slightly smaller, or slightly larger
[17:59] <ali1234> even if you go to decimal point sizes you can't do it
[18:00] <penguin42> ali1234: I assume you've filed a bug on it?
[18:00] <ali1234> this used to be a problem in KDE as well but they've more or less fixed it now
[18:00] <ali1234> penguin42: i wouldn't know what to file it against
[18:01] <ali1234> and given that xfce only has about 3 developers and hasn;t changed at all since 5 years ago, it didn't seem like a worthwhile use of my time
[18:01] <penguin42> ali1234: xfce4-panel ?
[18:01] <ali1234> it's not just xfce-panel
[18:01] <ali1234> its xfce-everything
[18:01] <ali1234> panel, control panels, thunar
[18:01] <ali1234> the lot
[18:01] <penguin42> ali1234: It's best to file it on a vgauely right package rather than not file it at all
[18:02] <penguin42> ali1234: libxfce4ui-1-0 or the like?
[18:03] <ali1234> i only tried XFCE for about half an hour just to humour the people who constantly suggest it
[18:03] <ali1234> honestly it is significantly worse than gnome 2 was
[18:03] <ali1234> it's like gnome 2 copied by people who have no idea what they are doing
[18:03] <Azelphur> I use XFCE on multi monitor and it seems fine
[18:03] <Azelphur> Admittedly I swapped out half the DE though
[18:03] <jutnux> As much as I liked Gnome 2 I do think it needs to move on.
[18:04] <ali1234> and jutnux: gnome-shell doesn't have multiple monitor support by design
[18:04] <ali1234> any monitor after the first does not participate in window switching
[18:04] <ali1234> which is absolutely useless
[18:04] <Azelphur> I use compiz so I assume that doesn't affect me
[18:04] <penguin42> ali1234: I sympathise with the choice of using the desktop you hate least - it's not a good situation
[18:05] <Azelphur> XFCE + Compiz + Nautilus + Cairo-dock instead of xfce-panel
[18:05] <Azelphur> works well for me
[18:05] <jutnux> I use gnome-shell with Docky
[18:06] <Azelphur> yea but I'm on quad monitor :P
[18:06] <ali1234> docks are bloody awful
[18:06] <jutnux> I'd prefer a bottom panel
[18:06] <ali1234> see bug report ^
[18:06] <Azelphur> lol
[18:06] <penguin42> Azelphur: Nice :-)
[18:06] <ali1234> if they didn't insist on using a dock, i wouldn't have this problem
[18:06] <Azelphur> ali1234: who insists?
[18:06] <ali1234> because i'd have a window list that actually made it possible to tell what the windows actually are
[18:07] <ali1234> Azelphur: the desktop design team
[18:07] <Azelphur> ali1234: ah :P
[18:07] <Azelphur> but surely you can just rip out what you don't like and replace it, as I've done
[18:07] <ali1234> one thing is for sure. unity is the best looking desktop by a long long way
[18:08] <ali1234> and since i have to look at it a lot that's a big bonus for why i use it
[18:08] <ali1234> in contrast, KDE and XFCE look terrible, and gnome-shell is only mildly bad
[18:08] <ali1234> however, i've found that desktop developers don't like bug reports that say "your desktop looks ugly"
[18:09] <penguin42> see I like the KDE look
[18:09] <Azelphur> lol
[18:09] <Laney> BAH
[18:09] <ali1234> out of all open source software ever made there are basically only two themes that look decent ever made
[18:09] <Laney> distorted audio after upgrading to precise
[18:09] <penguin42> Laney: Mooo!
[18:10] <ali1234> and both of those themes only work on gtk2
[18:10] <Laney> also graphics fail means i can't play super meat boy :(
[18:10] <ali1234> and also both of them were paid for by canonical
[18:10] <penguin42> Laney: Report!
[18:10] <Laney> yes
[18:11] <ali1234> KDE looks like widget soup
[18:11] <ali1234> also nthing is ever aligned properly
[18:11] <mgdm> mmm soup
[18:11] <ali1234> but it turns out actually things are aligned properly, it's just that the themes are badly designed so when stuff is aligned, it looks like it isn't
[18:11] <ali1234> and this can't be fixed due to the design of KDE
[18:12] <ali1234> this mainly affects things like drop shadows
[18:12] <ali1234> because they are bigger down one side
[18:12] <ali1234> of course, every single KDE theme has multiple drop shadows and gradients on everything
[18:12] <ali1234> so pretty much KDE can only look awful
[18:12] <ali1234> if you switch it to using the Gtk decorator for everything then you can make it look semi-decent
[18:13] <penguin42> yeh but that often breaks
[18:13] <ali1234> because then you have available themes that don't have dropshadows and gradients everywhere
[18:13] <ali1234> yes, i was coming to that. the gtk decorator is quite buggy, especially with kwin compositing
[18:13] <ali1234> so yeah, that's why i don't use KDE
[18:13] <jutnux> ali1234: You tried cinnamon?
[18:14] <ali1234> no i never heard of it
[18:14] <penguin42> ali1234: See I guess we have different priorities - I don't actually care too much about the style; I care more about features and things working and being easy for me - and that balance is KDE least-worse at the moment (although there is annoying bug in PP at the moment)
[18:14] <ali1234> as i said the other day. i started using computers before the GUI was invented and i've used some really truely difficult to use ones
[18:15] <ali1234> none of the current ones are as bad as, say, windows 3.1
[18:15] <ali1234> or beos
[18:15] <penguin42> or GEM
[18:15] <ali1234> or whatever that thing the atari ST had was
[18:15] <penguin42> that was GEM
[18:15] <ali1234> right.
[18:15] <ali1234> so i can get along with anything in terms of usage
[18:15] <ali1234> but what i can't stand is when things aren't aligned properly and i have to look at it all day
[18:15] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you got a bug filed on that?
[18:16] <ali1234> it's like when you go to someones house and the pictures aren't straight and you really want to go and straighten them out but you can't and it drives you nuts
[18:16] <ali1234> i filed a bug about the KDE alignment thing
[18:16] <penguin42> yeh, you see given the untidyness of this room I can't really help on that
[18:16] <ali1234> it was closed WONTFIX because it can't be fixed without rewriting the whole of KDE
[18:16] <jutnux> ali1234: Cinnamon is a Gnome-shell fork which might tickle your fanciness.
[18:16] <jutnux> fancy*
[18:17] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm I hate that - was that filed in LP or in KDE?
[18:17] <ali1234> KDE
[18:17] <ali1234> hang on
[18:17] <ali1234> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106
[18:17] <ali1234> this is just one example
[18:18] <ali1234> there are plenty more
[18:18] <ali1234> but i gave up after that one
[18:18] <ali1234> because they just have excuses and excuses for why they can't fix it
[18:18] <ali1234> http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=64183 pretty much explains it
[18:19] <penguin42> hmm I'm not sure that example is correct
[18:19] <jutnux> Tell you what though
[18:19] <jutnux> Gnome Shell's workspaces are annoying me
[18:20] <ali1234> penguin42: well, you'll have to read the whole bug and let me know
[18:20] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I'm just reading
[18:22] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm I think I can see what he's arguing
[18:27] <ali1234> in the end i prefer something that is over-designed (unity or gnome-shell) to something that is under-designed (KDE)
[18:28] <ali1234> (or XFCE)
[18:28] <ali1234> XFCE has all these alignment and font issues too
[18:28] <ali1234> except they are much worse because XFCE has almost no developers behind it
[18:29] <ali1234> but it's mitigated by XFCE using Gtk which gives it a bit of a head-start
[18:29] <penguin42> ali1234: Nod; I suspect people think that adding a drop shadow here and there can't be that hard and then trip over the details
[18:29] <ali1234> exactly
[18:30] <ali1234> KDE should ban drop shadows and gradients in 5.0
[18:30] <ali1234> in the defaults
[18:30] <penguin42> ali1234: There are some people who prefer a pretty drop shadow and don't care about the misalignment
[18:30] <ali1234> drop shadows aren't pretty
[18:30] <ali1234> especially when they are horribly over used
[18:31] <ali1234> they are a tool to convey information like everything else
[18:31] <penguin42> I believe that's called a matter of opinion; personally they don't do much for me but I don't dislike them
[18:31] <ali1234> but when everything has one they become meaningless
[18:31] <ali1234> it's like when the manager comes in and says "bold text stands out so please make the entire website be in bold text"
[18:32] <ali1234> that's KDE in a nutshell :)
[18:35] <gord> terrifying idea of the day; have a text to speech engine record your voice after you open a web page and automatically insert your reaction into a comment
[18:35] <gord> would make facebook more interesting
[18:36] <penguin42> one for halfbakery
[18:36] <ali1234> reaction images are so much more expressive though
[18:36] <AlanBell> gord: I think youtube has that feature already
[18:36] <AlanBell> judging by the comments
[18:40] <jacobw> gord: lol
[18:40] <gord> i see jacobw already has the technology working
[18:40] <jacobw> ha
[18:40] <jacobw> yes :p
[18:47]  * czajkowski hugs gord 
[18:48] <gord> all working now?
[18:48] <czajkowski> yup
[18:48] <bigcalm_lappy> Afternoon all
[18:49] <gord> cool, you might want to make sure your on archive.ubuntu.com instead of a local mirror when running dev releases, they can really lag behind
[18:49] <gord> thought occured to me earlier ^
[18:50] <czajkowski> hmm ok
[18:50] <czajkowski> was missing a kernel update also which had to do manually
[19:13] <AlanBell> http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:8000/ do you see stuff happening there?
[19:14] <jacobw> yes
[19:14] <AlanBell> great
[19:14]  * AlanBell loves Ubuntu
[19:14] <jacobw> are you logging tool tips
[19:14] <AlanBell> not quite
[19:14] <AlanBell> it is orca the screen reader which sends text to speech dispatcher, which I redirected to a file
[19:15] <AlanBell> and a node.js webserver doing tail -f on the file
[19:15] <AlanBell> all in a virtualbox vm
[19:15] <jacobw> that's cool :)
[19:15] <AlanBell> so I can navigate about the desktop and people can see what orca would be saying
[19:16] <AlanBell> I will make it a two way thing as well, so you can send keystrokes back and control the desktop, but this is what I wanted to get working for now
[19:17] <jutnux> http://i.imgur.com/GrWYI.jpg
[19:28]  * SuperEngineer starts campaign to stop people using the word "lappy"... eeuuuu... yuk... horible... bad word!
[19:28] <ali1234> i'm trying to test the unity from oneiric-proposed but it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop
[19:59] <penguin42> Jaguar Land Rover had a full page job ad in the Times weekend section - must have cost a fortune; surprising they're finding it that hard to find people
[20:01]  * hamitron goes to website to look
[20:24] <mattt> evening
[20:26] <Laney> greetings
[20:26] <Laney> saturday night with TLPI. rock and indeed roll
[20:28] <mattt> TLPI?
[20:30] <Laney> http://man7.org/tlpi/
[20:39] <mattt> Laney: that's an interesting looking book
[20:39] <Laney> it is a weighty tome
[21:17] <jacobw> http://gizmodo.com/5627807/bubbling-tricks-your-mind-to-makes-anyone-naked
[21:17] <jacobw> wow
[21:28] <penguin42> jacobw: That's erm neat!
[21:28]  * penguin42 waits for the test cases
[21:42] <jutnux> Got to love Bitfolk upgrading the Bandwidth for free \o/
[21:43] <RaycisCharles> Virgin Media also promised to double my internets to 100mbit...sometime in the next 18 months.
[21:44] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: Have they said anything about upstream bandwidth and what about any form of cap/shaping?
[21:44] <gord> thats nice. i get 3mbit.
[21:44] <jutnux> I meant my server provider but hey, Virgin Media is awesome too.
[21:44] <jutnux> gord: I get 5. I feel your pain.
[21:44] <gord> thats almost double mine, no you don't ;P
[21:45] <RaycisCharles> penguin42: there are no caps on any Virgin plan, or shaping on the 50 or 100 plans.
[21:45] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: how much are the 50/100 plans?
[21:45] <RaycisCharles> I don't expect that to change, especially since BT now have their own uncapped unshaped ADSL (or is it GayDSL? Ehehehehe) plan.
[21:45]  * penguin42 can't get Infinity here :-(
[21:45] <RaycisCharles> I think I pay £35/mo for just 50Mbit, without phone or TV.
[21:46] <penguin42> (very annoying since the exchange is enabled)
[21:46] <RaycisCharles> Now that's pretty damn good considering I get 50Mbit 95% of the time and there are no data caps.
[21:46] <RaycisCharles> I've downloaded about 200gb a month for the last...year?
[21:47] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: That's not too bad - I pay about ~23 for ADSL2 getting ~11Mbps and a fixed IP for that (I could probably find that cheaper)
[21:47] <RaycisCharles> Also, I ge 5Mbit up.
[21:47] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: Oh, now 5Mbit up is nice
[21:47] <RaycisCharles> In reality, it's 50.5MBit down, about 4.8Mbit up.
[21:47] <RaycisCharles> I want that lost 200Kbit/s dammit.
[21:48] <RaycisCharles> All the technical merits are with cable.
[21:48] <penguin42> it's probably one level of protocol overhead somewhere
[21:48] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: I think Infinity can get a higher upstream bandwidth
[21:48] <gord> 4mbit up isn't great really, i get 1mbit up on my crappy connection
[21:48] <gord> 5*
[21:48] <RaycisCharles> penguin42, "up to".
[21:48] <penguin42> gord: True, but it's still more than that 1mbit
[21:49] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: What are typical download rates you get when pulling ubuntu updates?
[21:49] <RaycisCharles> gord, it's pretty difficult to offer 50Mbit synchronous unless you have dedicated circuits.
[21:49] <gord> i think the technical merrits are with fibre
[21:49] <RaycisCharles> penguin42, I don't even run Ubuntu.
[21:49] <RaycisCharles> gord, well, cable is fibre to the cabinet IIRC.
[21:50] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: Sheesh :-)  Well anything equivalent
[21:50] <RaycisCharles> The last hundred yards is coax.
[21:50] <RaycisCharles> penguin42: um, it maxes out my connection when I download a *nix ISO.
[21:50] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: It's fibre to the cab and yeh last bit is coax, but I'm fairly sure there is contention at various points at the cab and in the fibre network
[21:50] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: But hey, if it maxes for you then that's good
[21:51] <RaycisCharles> penguin42, yeah, but the contention ratio is lower for cable than ADSL.
[21:51] <gord> fibre to the home is quite obviously the way forward ;)
[21:51] <gord> long run
[21:51] <RaycisCharles> It's about 20:1 for cable and 30:1 for ADSL IIRC.
[21:51] <penguin42> gord: Agreed
[21:51] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: ADSL varies heavily depending on provider, anything upto 50 I think
[21:51] <RaycisCharles> And the simple fact is the technology means almost all cable customers get the advertised speed, whilst almost no ADSL customers get the advertised speed.
[21:52] <RaycisCharles> ADSL2+ maxes out at 24Mbit/s doesn't it?
[21:52] <penguin42> nod
[21:52] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: I meant 50:1
[21:52] <RaycisCharles> Oh.
[21:52] <RaycisCharles> What I want to see is Virgin's exchanges opened up to third parties.
[21:52] <RaycisCharles> They have a monopoly on cable...
[21:53] <RaycisCharles> Unless you live in Hull.
[21:53] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: So you don't have to deal with them?
[21:53] <RaycisCharles> Well, don't all telco/TV/mobile companies have shitty customer support?
[21:53] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: The difficulty is that most of their equipment isn't in the exchange - it's in the street cabs (same for BT infinity) - so what do you give a 3rd party access to?
[21:54] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: There are one or two with good support - but they cost
[21:54] <RaycisCharles> penguin42, whatever they need to provide cable competition to Virgin.
[21:54] <RaycisCharles> The thing is, Virgin's actual cable service is top notch. It's because the service they provide is much lower than what they're capable of.
[21:54] <gord> sounds like a bad deal for virgin
[21:55] <penguin42> RaycisCharles: It's pretty hard to see how; don't forget with BT LLU, Openreach still deal with the copper
[21:55] <SuperEngineer> How to tell if you're *human* or ad exec. A *human* wouldn't run an advert today extolling pleasures of cruises - would they you P&O idiots.
[21:55] <RaycisCharles> Who cares? It's a good deal for society.
[21:55] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oops
[21:55] <RaycisCharles> SuperEngineer: they would run an advert today extolling the pleasures of land-based activities.
[21:55] <gord> virgin prolly cares
[21:56] <RaycisCharles> Welsh tourist board: "Climb Ben Nevis; you'll never drown."
[21:56] <gord> if other companies want to get in there, they'll have to lay their own cable
[21:56] <RaycisCharles> Well I suppose.
[21:56] <penguin42> gord: Well it would be difficult for them to object given getting BT to open up
[21:56] <RaycisCharles> BT were a state monopoly.
[21:56] <RaycisCharles> Virgin are a private monopoly.
[21:57] <RaycisCharles> They bought out all their cable competition.
[21:57] <RaycisCharles> Apart from Hull, which is a shithole.
[21:57] <penguin42> gord: But I can't see a good technical solution
[21:58] <gord> simple fact is that if you want a competitor to virgin, its adsl/fibre - like me, i could get fibre here, but it would be through BT and i hate BT with a firey passion, so i don't
[22:02] <RaycisCharles> gord why do you hate BT?
[22:02] <RaycisCharles> How could you, after those wonderful Kris Marshall adverts?
[22:02] <RaycisCharles> (Those were the most excruciatingly painfully bad adverts EVER.)
[22:03] <RaycisCharles> Twatosaur wants to bone chubs girl with annoying kids. JOIN BT!!
[22:04] <RaycisCharles> gord, ADSL isn't a competitor so long as you 1) need to buy a BT phone line, and 2) you only get 1/3rd of the "up to 24Mbit" speed on average
[22:06] <gord> i don't think you understand what the word competitor is; to restate, i choose adsl through Be, because i perfer the service they give through ADSL than the service BT gives through infinity
[22:07] <gord> you just prefer virgin to adsl
[22:12] <RaycisCharles> I didn't mean ADSL was literally not a competitor.
[22:12] <RaycisCharles> I'm saying it's a no-brainer if you look at the internet service and pricing, although the customer service is a nightmare.
[22:48] <zleap> !seen Paln
[22:48] <zleap> !lastseen Paln
[22:49] <zleap> !lastseen Pal
[22:49] <zleap> !lastseen Paln
[22:50] <jacobw> stop interograting poor lubotu3
[22:51] <zleap> sorry
[22:55] <bigcalm_lappy> I think you can do that in private message
[22:56] <AlanBell> and it doesn't have that functionality
[22:59] <bigcalm_lappy> One could ask nickserv
[23:42] <jutnux> popey: When is your support tool going to be open for use? :-)