=== yofel_ is now known as yofel === schmidtm_ is now known as schmidtm === xeros_ is now known as xeros [11:42] time to upload qt I think! [11:48] has it been tested with unity-2d? [11:49] debfx: hmm agateau said it was good but I don't know if he tested it [11:49] agateau? [12:11] Riddelll: question about the qt4-x11 versioning, was that intended for the archive? [12:15] micahg: oh, drat, yet it was but obviously I should have removed the ppa [12:15] my head concussion is improving but clearly not fully recovered yet! [12:16] ok, at least it was intended for the archive :) [12:16] oh well, I'll reupload with the right number === Riddelll is now known as Riddell [12:20] Riddell: I haven't checked with unity-2d. Can do now. [12:21] agateau: best be quick since it's uploaded now :) [12:21] Riddell: uhuh ok [12:38] Riddell: looks good so far. I have been using 4:4.8.0-1ubuntu1~ppa1, I assume the version pushed to the archive is similar [12:45] yes it is === a1 is now known as al [15:39] is my phone number on the kubuntu.org site? [15:39] had a phone call from someone asking if I was kubuntu support and saying the site listed me as such [15:39] under press contact your number is listed [15:39] http://www.kubuntu.org/contact-us [15:57] jjesse: hah yes, poor guy must have been so desperate he didn't even read the words "Press Contact" on that page, I don't think it could be any clearer [15:58] must have been having some serious issues [16:02] I've actually helped someone before who phoned me she sounded so desperate but my poor brain wouldn't be up to it today I think [16:03] although apparantly I can order pizza on the phone which is too tricky for everyone else in my canoe club, funny how people's talents need nudging even for things I think are easy [16:03] fabo: meeting in an hour? [16:05] Tonio_, debfx, apachelogger, NCommander, Quintasan_, yofel, ScottK: fabo quiz meeting in an hour? [16:05] Sure. [16:05] * yofel has time [16:08] ScottK: do you remember the quorum and whatnot rules? I keep forgetting [16:08] IIRC at least three. [16:08] * ScottK looks [16:09] if there are 7 people in that list, itd be 4 then? [16:10] Riddell: "majority of those present and at least 3" votes. [16:10] ScottK: thanks that sounds right [16:11] maco: nah just a fixed number because there could be loads of kubuntu-dev who lose interest so we'd not get a majoity [16:11] Exactly. [16:11] anyway all this voting more unquakerly, we should be able to find the Right Thing to Do :) [16:12] If there is a surprise when the vote is taken, we're doing it wrong. [16:12] Riddell: can't be there unfortunatelly [16:12] I have to go see the doctor, since I cut off one of my fingers [16:12] Oh my! [16:13] O_o [16:13] Riddell: You might email the taco boy too. [16:13] actually I only lost about 1.5cm [16:13] That's plenty. [16:14] yeah.... they rebuilt it so that it'll look like a normal finger in the end [16:14] but it hurts like hell [16:14] * ScottK would have guessed so. Good luck with it. [16:15] BBIAB. [16:16] wouldn't be much of a problem if I didn't have surgery on the wrist, same hand, last month [16:17] because of the finger I couln't go through reeducation for the wrist, and it is now completly blocked [16:17] I can't move it, so I may have to go through surgery again :'( [16:17] that really sucks [16:18] I can't even old my little girl properly [16:18] hold [16:18] you type with a french accent! [16:18] yeah, I know :) [16:19] Riddell: what about your health ? are you getting fully better ? [16:20] Tonio_: erk, sorry to hear that, we're both unfortunate accident victims [16:20] yeah... well the wrist isn't an accident, I got problems with it for years [16:20] Tonio_: yes thanks I can notice my brain improving, eye I don't know impossible to be objective until it's fully better I think but worst case that'll get surgery [16:21] just it is a lot worse after the surgery than it was before ! [16:21] Riddell: no memory problems then ? that's nice, and obviously the most important [16:21] Tonio_: oh and we both have to battle with french health system admins as well, poor us! [16:21] Riddell: you mean your eye doesn't "see" correctly ? [16:21] Riddell: yeah ;) [16:22] anyway they did a pretty good jobs from a technical perspective [16:22] https://picasaweb.google.com/110887763749878491062/11Janvier2012?locked=true#5696286599847902802 [16:22] that's after the surgery [16:22] might look awfull, but compared to what is was before, that's really nice [16:22] it looks like a finger at least [16:22] Tonio_: page is locked I think [16:23] Tonio_: one eye had a muscle stretch and is squint so I get double vision, means I get to wear this cool eye patch http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/DSCF6511.JPG [16:24] Riddell: http://temp.toniox.org/IMG_2012-01-11_091940.jpg [16:24] Riddell: ouch.... that must be annoying as hell !!! [16:25] anyway you look pretty cool with the eye patch :) [16:25] Tonio_: well it's not as bad as having a missing finger! [16:25] depends, actually :) I'm more concerned with the wrist [16:25] concequenses are way more annoying [16:25] yeah [16:26] pain is nothing as long as it's temporary [16:26] currently, I can't drive properly, I can't go with the motorbike, I can't wash my baby, I can't do anything except from typing the keyboard :) [16:26] hopefully I can work [16:27] Riddell: as you can see I don't have a missing finger, they pulled it back [16:27] just it'll be long before looking like "normal" [16:28] but anyway, compared to a car accident, were you could have die, what happened to me is just nothing... I'm fine you're recovering [16:28] yeah but I don't remember any of the scary bit :) [16:31] me neither [16:31] I remember the noise with the saw, and the feeling like "meat is getting desintegrated", but that's all, no images, no pain, nothing [16:32] the brain usually forgets nasty details ;) [16:33] handy that [16:38] anyway I'm out doctor is waiting for me [17:02] fabo: meeting? [17:03] Riddell: sure. I guess you start it [17:04] onio_, debfx, apachelogger, NCommander, Quintasan_, yofel, ScottK: meeting? [17:04] Tonio_ [17:04] \o [17:04] one more needed [17:05] o/ [17:05] great [17:05] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FathiBoudra/DeveloperApplication [17:05] we'll just use here, quiz fabo and vote when we are happy to [17:05] \o [17:05] fabo: tell us about yourself [17:06] what's your experience, why do you want to contribute to kubuntu, what do you know or not know (also how does your job affect it)? [17:06] so I guess I know already many of you, most likely worked on Qt/KDE related packages [17:07] I'm a linux user since 11 years [17:07] developer, contributor to some open source projects [17:08] guess that I'm mostly known here as a Debian developer and Qt/KDE maintainer [17:08] we do love our debian qt/kde team [17:09] I indirectly contributed to Kubuntu so far :) [17:09] So why apply now? [17:09] and would like to move a step further [17:10] I'm applying now because I want to go faster [17:10] when syncing/merging, I'm wasting your time [17:10] What do you know about the Ubuntu release cycle? When we have freezes, what they mean, etc.? [17:11] I could have done it earlier, but I've more time to do it now [17:11] mostly because of my Linaro work [17:11] you should probably answer questions when they're posed to you :P [17:11] which makes me more involved in Ubuntu [17:12] EvilResistance: it's fine as long as he answers them [17:13] fabo: do you know what kubuntu-dev does and doesn't let you upload? [17:13] as you know (or not), I represent Linaro at the Ubuntu release meeting and have a weekly sync meeting with skaet [17:14] I'm following closely the release cycle [17:14] I know what a freeze is, what process should be followed (exceptions) [17:14] for the dates, I'm referring to the wiki [17:15] * ScottK too (can never remember the dates) [17:15] kubuntu-dev maintains and can upload a set of packages (kubuntu related) [17:15] * Riddell has a handy year wall chart, quicker than loading a wiki page [17:15] indeed Qt/KDE packages [17:16] it's a limited set of packages and kubunt-dev can't upload random packages [17:16] It's also not all Qt/KDE packages. It's only the ones in the Kubuntu packageset. [17:17] This is ~everything on the Kubuntu CD or DVD. [17:17] fabo: what do you think of UDD? [17:18] and actually my other questions, feel free to answer what you wish.. [17:18] can we work better with debian? [17:18] why does strigi have different symbols on debian than ubuntu? [17:19] Riddell: unfortunately, not much to say about udd. I know what it stands for, the tools used... [17:19] If a packager revision ends in build1, e.g. 4.7.4-2build1, what does the build1 mean? [17:21] actually, I don't have any idea how to work better with Debian. we have a lot of tools to help already. most likely we want to reduce differences even more [17:22] the symbols difference is strigi could be caused by different build dependency and could be also caused by the compiler [17:22] s/is/in [17:23] I could check and give you a more precise answer [17:24] build1 means that the package has been rebuilt (could be caused by a transition) [17:25] I'm ready to vote, ScottK, debfx, yofel: any more questions? [17:25] * ScottK is ready. [17:25] * debfx too [17:25] me too [17:26] I'm +1 for good knowledge, keen project interest and all round eliteness [17:26] I'm +1 - Long time DD with excellent technical knowlege who's well familiar with K(U)buntu differences. [17:27] +1 for being a great help on the qt side [17:27] +1 from me too [17:27] groovy, i think you're in fabo [17:27] fabo: Congratulations. You're in. [17:27] \o/ [17:27] thanks all [17:28] Riddell: Do you want to write the emali to devel-permissions and such or should I? [17:28] let's make kubuntu rocks even more :) [17:28] * fabo and hopefully get my internet connection back soon [17:28] ScottK: mm, what's that for? [17:29] congrats fabo! [17:29] debfx: thank you :) [17:29] Riddell: It's the usual welcome email, plus they added a request to cc the devel-permissions list after another group got caught making new developers without following the process. [17:30] hmm, I didn't know about that, I'd best learn and do it [17:33] Shoot. I can't find the list. [17:33] micahg will know. [17:34] Anyway, it's a welcome mail to kubuntu-devel/ubuntu-devel/the new developer and cc Mark Shuttleworth and the relevant DMB list that micahg will hopefully tell us. [17:35] * ScottK will leave it to you. [17:35] ScottK: surely this list? https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/devel-permissions [17:35] fabo: congrats [17:35] I'm basing it on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-October/000300.html [17:36] Riddell: Yes. that's the one. [17:37] shadeslayer: thanks! === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Happy New Kubuntu | Congratulations new Kubuntu Dev: fabo | 4.7.4 in oneiric-proposed for testing - results/comments in #913928 | http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-kubuntu.html TODOs! [17:39] hmm 4.8 tag in two days [17:40] cool 4:4.8.0-1ubuntu1 :) [17:40] did anyone ever try to use ksecretservice? I didn't so far [17:40] there's a plasma active 3 meeting in 2 days [17:41] fabo: physical meeting? [17:41] irc [17:42]  thursday 19 January 16:00 CET [17:42] * fabo needs to check why ubuntu-tv needs to rebuilt qtmobility [17:42] d [17:43] ubuntu-tv uses qt? [17:43] Riddell: yes, qml based [17:43] cool [17:44] not as cool as using plasma but that's a business decision I guess [17:44] Riddell: I think we should split the amarok docs into amarok-l10n- packages. They eat 35MB in total. [17:46] does anyone plan to work on oxygen-gtk3 in the near future? If not I'll give it a shot [17:46] debfx: they're currently part of the -common package? [17:46] yes [17:47] fabo: this is what I was asking about earlier, http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/strigi_0.7.7-1ubuntu1.debdiff [17:47] I got a load of missing symbols and used pkgsymbols and it's a big diff [17:48] debfx: well spotted, have each lang-pack depend on the amarok-l10n- ? I don't know how to do that, there are scripts which make those packages [17:48] yofel: I think the issue with oxygen-gtk3 is the config [17:49] there are packages around, check the irc logs, but it needs the config to be set up on first use I think [17:49] would be great if you could take it [17:49] it does, the readme doesn't yield anything more than adding a ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini though [17:49] I'll look into it [17:50] Riddell: that strigi symbols diff seems to be caused by feeding only the i386 log into pkgkde symbols helper. does dpkg-gensymbols generate a diff when you use the debian symbols files? [17:50] yofel: I expect there's no config GUI for KDE so you'd need to work out if that's needed and can be done easily or we can get away without it [17:51] without it gtk3 will look gtk1 style, so it's required it seems [17:51] debfx: I am using the debian symbols files, I'm compiling on amd64 [17:56] ok, so a lot of symbols disappeared [17:56] debfx: build log of debian package on ubuntu [17:56] http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/strigi_0.7.7-1_amd64.build [17:57] only change is not build-dep on libavformat [17:57] meeting soon? [17:57] yofel: yes I agree it's probably important (although I realise I've no idea what programmes are gtk3 and what are gtk 2 now) [17:58] JontheEchidna: sorry you missed it, an hour ago [17:58] JontheEchidna: he got in though [17:58] oops [17:58] if you have questions you want answered just to test him quiz away [17:58] got my times mixed up [17:58] gnome is pretty much gtk3, firefox and thunderbird are the most used ones that are still gtk2 - dunno about the rest [18:06] ScottK: sorry, was afk [18:06] Riddell: since we're talking devs, can you fix the ownership of kubuntu-devel now? [18:06] hmm, if you guide me through it [18:06] Riddell: no idea why so many symbols disappear on Ubuntu. they all seem harmless so I'd just remove them from the symbols files. [18:06] new team [18:07] make new team owned by kubuntu council and someone else? [18:07] and make that team owner of kubuntu-dev? [18:07] Riddell: yeah, just make a team with DMB and any other body that's supposed to approve kubuntu developers [18:07] micahg? [18:07] Riddell: yep [18:08] Riddell: kubuntu council and developer-membership-board [18:08] fiddly since kubuntu-dev is supported to approve itself! [18:08] supposed [18:08] call it kubuntu-dev-owner? [18:09] Riddell: hmm, well, does the KC oversee the process? [18:09] Riddell: yeah, that's fine [18:09] Kubuntu-council doesn't approve kubuntu-dev. [18:09] Kubuntu-dev approves kubuntu-dev. [18:09] but it could be said to oversee kubuntu-dev, check it is following corret process? [18:09] ScottK: right, but we need someone in the guise of admin/owner [18:10] The actual model is recursive. [18:10] I guess. [18:10] Riddell: some maybe just you and the developer-membership-board? [18:10] nah having just me is bad practice [18:10] s/some/so/ [18:10] micahg meant: "Riddell: so maybe just you and the developer-membership-board?" [18:10] micahg: It should either be all kubuntu-dev or KC, not sure which is better. [18:10] low bus factor, or french driver factor more likely [18:11] I think kubuntu-council is fine, we'd not be making it a member [18:11] ScottK: I'm not comfortable with kubuntu-dev owning [18:12] micahg: The approved group to approve new kubuntu-dev is kubuntu-dev, so it's just the same as DMB owning ubuntu-dev. [18:12] hmm, we already have https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev-owner [18:13] ScottK: no, not exactly, in terms of the voting yes, but I'm not comfortable with all of them having rights to add new members [18:13] micahg: "Pending members" "Ubuntu Developer Membership Board" [18:14] Riddell: looking [18:14] That's probably the one to use then. [18:15] micahg: It's no different than DMB member having the ability to add ubuntu-dev. They all do, don't they? [18:16] dunno small groups are more reliable than large memberships for knowing what they should and shouldn't do [18:16] ScottK: yes, it is, the privilege is limited, the DMB is 8 people plus the 7 tech board members, kubuntu-dev is 80 people [18:16] Riddell: I can't accept an invite, I need to find a TB person to do that, can you make the team the owner of kubuntu-dev though? [18:17] micahg: done [18:18] Riddell: thanks, I'll take care of the last piece [18:20] * Riddell uploads strigi different symbols and all [18:20] micahg: sorry for taking so long [18:20] Riddell: no problem, at least we got it done [18:24] oh what have I messed up here? [18:24] "/usr/include/GLES2/gl2.h:38:26: error: conflicting declaration 'typedef khronos_intptr_t GLintptr'" [18:24] https://launchpadlibrarian.net/90222372/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armhf.calligra_1%3A2.3.86-0ubuntu6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz [18:25] compiling with both openGL and openGLES [18:25] ScottK: do you still have arm boxes I can ssh into and compile on? [18:28] Riddell: Yes. Same ones, same location. [18:48] ScottK: FTR, ubuntu-desktop has a similar setup with approval and has a few trusted souls as admins [18:55] I think kubuntu-dev-owner shouldn't be a member of kubuntu-dev [18:56] that makes all council members kubuntu devs [19:03] Yep. [19:14] debfx: is it? [20:00] apachelogger: do you still have that paste/files that implemented C sockets? [20:17] hi, after today's update of kmail to 4:4.7.4+git111222-0ubuntu0.1~ppa1, akonadi seems to hang after a few minutes, not showing any new imap mails [20:17] tim: ScottK ^^ [20:17] is this a known issue? [20:17] tim: where is that package from? [20:18] one of the kubuntu ppas ... let me check [20:21] most likely it is fro kubuntu updates [20:26] tim: well I'm afraid I don't know about that issue but akonadi and kmail has a recent history of randomly breaking on updates [20:27] Riddell: i'm very aware of that :( [20:27] you can try with a new user, you can try downgrading, you can try upgrading to 4.8 RC or asking in user forums for help [20:27] used to be a wonderful email client during the kmail1 days [20:28] is there a ppa available for 4.8-rc on 11.10? [20:29] see kubuntuorg [20:29] dot [20:33] ... or i create a cron-job to restart akonadi every 10 minutes ... [20:38] and of course we do test it ourselves, it worked for me and others any bugs are likely upstreams so you'd need to work with them for a good diagnosis [20:48] yes, i hope, it will be fixed in 4.8 ... [20:54] Riddell: It's working fine for me. [21:04] Riddell: Kmail broke the moment they started using akonadi with it :P [21:04] agreed [21:05] I wish they would fix it frankly, i lost a years worth of email migrating from Kmail to Kmail2, and it took me three days worth of prodding and poking to get akonadi to finally work with it. A week later, it broke again and I switched to thunderbird. Right now, I wouldn't go back. [21:06] Actually [21:06] I have better things to do with my time than fight with my PC to get my email. [21:06] KMail2 works perfectly for me [21:06] you're one of the lucky ones, shadeslayer :) [21:06] except in one instance where I tried to send mail using smtp via another user [21:07] where the mail just went to the outbox ... I probably didn't give the user enough permissions [21:07] It still can't handle *large* volumes of Mail [21:07] works fine when you have something like 200-500 megs of mail [21:07] the one bug that prevents me from considering kmail2 for daily use is kde bug 277912 [21:07] KDE bug 277912 in general "Can't use my IMAP account's trash folder " [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277912 [21:08] not like anyone's looking at it [21:21] BarkingFish: kmail2 got a lot better about kdepim 4.7.3. [21:23] ScottK: If it really does work, I'm happy to give it another try. I got it in 4.7.2 and it was toilet paper. [21:23] hmm I seem to remember hearing problems about 4.7.3 and now tim has one with 4.7.4 so not perfect [21:23] I had an issue the other day with 4.8 rc 2 where it wouldn't show the contents of e-mail but it has fixed itself now === nixternal is now known as fifo === fifo is now known as nixternal [21:24] Not saying it's great, just way better. [21:25] * ScottK used Thunderbird instead of 4.7.2, but found 4.7.3 was usable enough to go back. [21:26] hi again ... after upgrading to 4.8 i found out that dolphin has been rewritten ... and the column view has been removed. any idea if this is permanently? [21:27] you would need to ask upstream, we only package it not write it :) [21:27] he blogs quite a lot probably his blogs say something [21:27] peter pernz [21:27] peter perz [21:34] Right ScottK - I'm gonna switch over to it. Let's see if it's gotten any better. [21:34] I won't take thunderbird off though, in case I change my mind, which may be sooner rather than later [21:35] but backup your e-mail first, just incase [21:35] I'm keeping thunderbird live, don't need to back it up. [21:37] needing packaging http://kdevelop.org/43/kdevelop-430-beta-released [21:37] rekonq too I expect [21:40] I can do kdevelop [21:43] hm. I might be lucky. Looks like kmail is sorta working, and not being a pita. [21:44] shadeslayer: go go packager! [21:44] * shadeslayer puts his packager hat on [22:07] I would like to test or rebuild something, but after the last one, I'm a little demotivated. [22:08] I'll just sit on the sidelines unless it's so easy that my Hamster could do it :) [22:32] Any ideas where I should put these : http://paste.kde.org/187580/ ? [22:32] the libs can go into kdevplatform5-libs.install ... but where do I put the binaries? [22:36] how goes the kubuntu peeps these days? [22:36] hi nixternal [22:37] some of us not in full health alas [22:37] but slowly moving onwards [22:37] shadeslayer: what are the options? [22:38] libsublime5 , kdevplatform5-libs, libsublime-dev and kdevplatform-dev [22:39] oh kdevplatform ? [22:40] shadeslayer: kdevplatform5-libs should be ok for the binaries too [22:40] and kdevplatform-dev for the header [22:42] okay [22:43] yeah, i have not been in full health myself after finishing up the 2011 cycling season. i am almost 100% and the 2012 cycling season starts this sunday :/ [22:43] jeez. We're all falling apart, aren't we? :) [22:43] lol [22:53] nixternal: Heya. [22:53] nixternal: You missed the meeting. We made fabo a kubuntu-dev today. [23:00] howdy ScottK. yeah, i saw the email [23:16] Okay, I've uploaded kdevplatform at https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+packages [23:17] Will do the rest of kdevelop tomorrow [23:18] thanks shadeslayer [23:18] Night :) [23:37] I was supposed to be attending that meeting, never got any notes or anything though. Didn't have any idea what I was meant to be raising :P