[00:01] <pete__> hi
[00:02] <jo-erlend> hey pete__ :)
[00:04] <pete__> hi jo-erlend. I'm looking for someone to guide me in terms of recommended reading as for ubuntu+pygtk+packaging commercial apps.
[00:04] <jo-erlend> pete__, ok. What do you already know?
[00:07] <pete__> frankly not much. never used python. read about cpython but I dont know if that would be the case here
[00:07] <pete__> my main worry is if it's to be closed source it better be bytecode. so the question is
[00:08] <pete__> can it be compiled to bytecode?
[00:09] <jo-erlend> yes, but all byte code can easily be converted to source code, whether you use Java, C# or Python. In other words, if your goal is secrecy, that's not the way to do it.
[00:09] <pete__> my goal is to create an app that
[00:09] <pete__> 1) is a great app and serves users
[00:10] <pete__> 2) allows me to pay my bills and concentrate on supporting and extending the app
[00:10] <pete__> so the question is - should I choose C/C++ ? :)
[00:10] <jo-erlend> Python programs don't hide the source. But open source refers to licensing. Even if the source code is readable, it doesn't mean it has to be open source. Also, there's no reason why you can't sell open source software.
[00:11] <pete__> well perhaps you're right
[00:11] <pete__> don't plan any proprietary patented algorithms
[00:12] <jo-erlend> if you want a language that compiles to native code, I would recommend Vala. It's very similar to Java and C#, but it compiles to C, which is then compiled to native. That makes it both very platform independent and extremely fast. It's faster than C++ and it's _much_ faster than C# and Java. But it isn't more complicated.
[00:13] <pete__> can I use C/C++ libs with Vala?
[00:13] <jo-erlend> if you haven't done much programming before, then I would still recommend that you start with Python. It's easier to learn, and faster to develop in. Developing for Ubuntu in Python is very similar to using Vala, so you won't start from scratch if you decide to move on.
[00:13] <jo-erlend> pete__, yes. In Python too.
[00:14] <pete__> well I'm been doing pretty much programming for the last 15 years :) only never 1) made aps for linux 2) released commercial app 3) used python
[00:15] <jo-erlend> to begin with, I would recommend that you have a look at Quickly. It's a tool that simplifies the job of getting up and running. It does so by creating a project from a template. Then you can use a visual GUI designer for your program, and start developing. It also handles packaging and upload to your PPA if you have one.
[00:15] <pete__> yes looked into quickly
[00:15] <pete__> and franklu i'm tempted using python
[00:16] <pete__> cause i love the syntax
[00:16] <pete__> my worries are the commerce-related ones
[00:16] <jo-erlend> yes, me too. And I love GTK and GLib.
[00:16] <jo-erlend> well.. What exactly is it you're worried about?
[00:17] <pete__> well maybe you made your point that it's not about being able to read the code
[00:17] <pete__> only the license itself
[00:17] <pete__> you know... in the old days :D we used obfuscators for java applets :)
[00:18] <jo-erlend> You can publish your software for sale in Ubuntu Software Center and then users can buy it from there. Canonical will then not allow anyone else to upload your code to the software center. If you license it as open source, then people can still package it themselves and distribute in a PPA or similar, but you'll still be much more visible in USC.
[00:19] <jo-erlend> but as I said before, you don't have to license it as open source if you don't want to. The fact that people can read the code, doesn't mean that they are allowed to actually use it.
[00:20] <pete__> maybe you're right
[00:21] <pete__> the other question is if anyone buys the software :) hahah but that's the risk
[00:22] <jo-erlend> but if you're used to Java and you want to program for Ubuntu, then you will want to look at Vala. It's _very_ similar. Very short tutorial: http://live.gnome.org/Vala/Tutorial
[00:22] <pete__> let me take a lok
[00:22] <pete__> *look
[00:22] <jo-erlend> pete__, hehe, yes, that's another question.
[00:24] <pete__> what can I say - I'd buy some :)
[00:24] <pete__> as for Vala - strong typing?
[00:24] <jo-erlend> but I think, whether or not the application is open source, people who doesn't want to pay, won't. And I don't think most people are going to look much at the license either. At least, they don't do that in the Windows world. They just skip the license altogether. And if they don't want to pay, then they pirate it.
[00:24] <jo-erlend> pete__, yes.
[00:25] <pete__> yeah you're right about the license.
[00:25] <pete__> open source and free software are great concepts
[00:25] <jo-erlend> and it is pretty much based on GObject, which makes it a very nice language for the Gnome platform.
[00:25] <pete__> but you know... not everyone is canonical :)
[00:26] <pete__> i've contributed some minor stuff
[00:27] <pete__> but at the end of a day, I'm a software developer, I don't work for a corporation and I have to make a living
[00:27] <pete__> vala looks cool, but I'm really tempted to use python
[00:27] <pete__> used ruby recently
[00:27] <pete__> so even if they're different
[00:27] <pete__> there's some similiarity
[00:28] <jo-erlend> right. I know the feeling. I really want to sell some of my software. I'm having many of the same thoughts as you have. But my current thought is that if I put my software for sale in USC, users are either going to buy it because they want it, or not going to buy it. I don't think hardly any users would care if it's Free software or not.
[00:29] <jo-erlend> many similarities between Ruby and Python. I read up on both at the same time, and I chose Python. Never regretted that.
[00:29] <pete__> yeah you're right about buying
[00:29] <pete__> have you put up anything on USC?
[00:30] <pete__> ...yet?
[00:31] <jo-erlend> pete__, not yet. :)
[00:32] <jo-erlend> actively working towards that goal, though, but my current project is rather large, so it'll be a while.
[00:32] <pete__> is it a side-project?
[00:33] <pete__> because mine will be, and it means huuuuge delays :)
[00:33] <jo-erlend> well, yes.
[00:34] <pete__> so it's gonna be a long year for you too ;)
[00:35] <pete__> ok thanks very much for help
[00:35] <jo-erlend> oh, no, not really. My projects are so fun, time really flies. :)
[00:35] <pete__> i think you convinced me with python
[00:35] <jo-erlend> thanks! :)
[00:35] <pete__> ok i'm off bye
[00:35] <jo-erlend> bye :)
[08:11] <dpm> good morning!
[10:23] <jml> hello
[10:30] <dpm> hey jml :)
[10:54] <ajmitch> hi
[23:42] <aquarius> anyone feeling knowledgeable about gtk3 drag and drop? I want a webkit.webview *and* its container to both receive drag and drop signals...