[01:46] <FuZi0N> hello
[01:46] <FuZi0N> Anyone know how to modify the maximum number of connections per user for pptp vpn in ubuntu?
[06:07] <pitti> Good morning
[06:16] <SpamapS> is precise shipping python 2.6?
[06:16] <pitti> not by default
[06:16] <pitti> I'm not sure, but we might even remove the package
[06:17] <SpamapS> it will be available though
[06:17] <SpamapS> wondering about bug 900941
[06:17] <pitti> but many extensions are not built for 2.6 any more
[06:17] <pitti> so it won't be very useful
[06:17] <SpamapS> it was uploaded to oneiric-proposed ...
[06:18] <pitti> SpamapS: yep, that's 2.7 only in precise
[06:18] <SpamapS> wondering if we should just accept that its going to be broken in 12.04 and accept the SRU.
[06:18] <pitti> I think so
[06:18] <pitti> well, it's not "broken" as in "unintentionally not working"
[06:18] <pitti> we are deliberately dropping support for 2.6
[06:18] <pitti> (in precise, that is)
[06:18] <SpamapS> A gentle pat on the bottom of the errant user who hasn't found the joy of python 2.7 yet. ;)
[06:19] <pitti> so an SRU to o-proposed seems fine, the precise task should then be 'invalid'
[06:27] <micahg> pitti: are you ok waving the 7 day SRU period for my latest Firefox upload to lucid-proposed?, I fixed 2 upgrade issues
[06:30] <pitti> micahg: yes, as the previous version has already baked there long enough
[06:30] <pitti> micahg: so it wasn't released yesterday after all?
[06:31] <micahg> pitti: well, I just had the last version in there about 9 hours ago, wanted it to bake 12 just in case, I'm running through a round of testing as well, should be ready in a couple hours
[06:31] <pitti> micahg: *nod*
[06:31] <micahg> pitti: I was going to push out lucid tonight and maverick tomorrow
[07:41] <micahg> pitti: migration not happening tonight, found an issue
[07:41] <micahg> *potential issue :)
[07:42] <pitti> ack
[08:19] <dholbach> good morning
[08:30] <pitti> ev: stole the ubiquity task in bug 712677 from you if that's alright with you?
[09:05] <ev> pitti: quite okay
[09:13] <jamespage> cjwatson: I discussed whether we should keep groovy 2.0.0 from experimental  with the debian maintainer; he expects at least 4 more beta/rc upstream releases before final release so it may not even make the next release of Debian :-)
[09:36] <FourDollars> dholbach: Thanks a lot. :)
[09:36] <dholbach> :)
[10:59] <dholbach> cjwatson, the ubuntu-changes-auto and ubuntu-patches mailing lists look like they are obsolete - is that correct? (just wondering if they should be moved to the bottom of http://lists.ubuntu.com)
[11:00] <dholbach> ubuntu-changes-auto likely, but ubuntu-patches seems to have an empty archive, which is weird (I recall patches being sent on the list)
[11:00] <cjwatson> dholbach: I already mailed Elizabeth about this when she asked on behalf of the CC.  ubuntu-patches is *not* obsolete, it just isn't archived.
[11:00] <dholbach> ok, thanks
[11:00] <cjwatson> Because it would be a waste of archive space.
[11:00]  * dholbach nods
[11:00] <dholbach> yes
[11:01] <cjwatson> dholbach: ubuntu-changes-auto probably is obsolete, though.
[11:01] <dholbach> gracias
[11:01] <cjwatson> So feel free to move that to the bottom.
[11:01] <dholbach> I will mail IS
[11:01] <cjwatson> I don't believe we've used that since we switched from dak to Soyuz.
[11:02] <cjwatson> But it has archives, so perhaps a "historical interest" section or something. :-)
[11:03] <dholbach> sure, that's why the bottom of lists.u.c would probably make sense - I didn't mean to get them wiped from the disks :)
[11:04] <cjwatson> Ooh!  Thank you to whoever made Unity 2D's workspaces be a 2D grid rather than a single row!
[11:05] <cjwatson> So much more comfortable again.
[11:06] <soren> Wow.
[11:06] <soren> sed is doing very interesting things for me right now.
[11:07] <soren> Guess what output I get from: echo 'AA' | sed -e 's/[^A-Z]//g'
[11:07] <soren> If your guess is "not a thing", you're right.
[11:08] <soren> echo 'AA' | LANG=C sed -e 's/[^A-Z]//g'
[11:08] <soren> on the other hand..
[11:08] <soren> gives me "AA".
[11:08] <soren> Awesomesauce.
[11:09] <soren> "aa" is the old Danish way of writing "å". I guess when you use ranges in sed it uses locale magic.
[11:09] <soren> So "aa" is interpreted as though it were "å".
[11:19] <cjwatson> soren: LC_COLLATE=C is your friend
[11:19] <cjwatson> Actually possibly LC_CTYPE=C in this case
[11:20] <ion> Things like getting sed/date/whatever to behave deterministically in a script are pretty much the only thing LC_ALL is good for.
[11:22] <soren> cjwatson: COLLATE seems to be the right one.
[11:23] <cjwatson> I've had LC_COLLATE=C in .bashrc for years
[11:23] <cjwatson> Lots of locales' orderings go AaBbCc or whatever so that also makes [A-Z] not terribly useful
[11:24] <soren> Heh :)
[12:29] <tjaalton> Riddell: hey, uploaded a new libwacom, copyright issue should be fixed, and it's a fresh upstream version too .)
[12:29] <tjaalton> :)
[12:31] <tjaalton> Riddell: also, the new frescobaldi needs python-poppler-qt4 that I synced yesterday (NEW), so if you can process that too it would be great
[12:31] <Riddell> looking
[12:36] <tjaalton> thanks :)
[12:36] <Riddell> accepted
[12:36] <tjaalton> yep, noticed
[12:55] <mdeslaur_> @pilot in
[12:56] <mbiebl> cjwatson: hi, quick question about http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=655875#10
[12:56] <mbiebl> I'm wondering where the "typo" is, i.e. why you reassigned to libglib2.0-dev
[12:57] <cjwatson> mbiebl: "package: libglib-2.0-dev"
[12:57] <mdeslaur_> @pilot out
[12:57] <cjwatson> note the extra -, which caused it to land in unknown-package@qa.debian.org's inbox
[12:57] <mdeslaur> @pilot in
[12:57] <mbiebl> urgh, ok
[12:57] <mbiebl> but as you already mentioned, this bug should just be closed
[12:57] <cjwatson> sure, I was just making a drive-by comment
[12:57] <mbiebl> I don't see a point in keeping it open
[12:58] <mbiebl> ok
[12:58] <mbiebl> just wondering if you planned to keep it open for a reason
[12:58] <cjwatson> no
[12:58] <cjwatson> I don't maintain glib2.0 in Debian so didn't want to step on the maintainers' toes
[13:01] <mbiebl> ok, thanks for the confirmation
[13:18] <tkamppeter> Anyone around who has experience with libusb (1.0.x)?
[13:26] <smb> Daviey, Sorry morning is over already, but just remembered we wanted to talk about bug 607039
[13:28] <Daviey> smb: right!
[13:29] <Daviey> smb: might be better to wait for hallyn |?
[13:29] <smb> Daviey, We can. Not really that urgent
[13:31] <scott-work> cjwatson: i am a little unsure about what we (ubuntu studio team) need to provide to you for transitioning to a live-dvd, would you explain a little more about what is needed?
[13:31]  * scott-work apologizes in advance if he is being dense or slow
[13:42] <arges> diwic, hello. any advice for getting a usb audio device to work? i'm pretty sure its somewhat standard as its outputting stereo fine, but it doesn't seem to register the inputs correctly.  not sure if I should be looking at pulseaudio/alsa etc. I can get it working fine with jackd. thanks
[13:43] <diwic> arges, do you have a bug nr with some hw info in it?
[13:44] <arges> diwic, yea that will be the next step. just wanted to know which package would be best to associate with it.
[13:44] <diwic> arges, "ubuntu-bug audio"
[13:45] <arges> diwic, ok. cool. i also wouldn't mind learning more about how to fix these types of issues to... so is there a wiki or place where I can look more into this to be more helpful?
[13:46] <diwic> arges, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems
[13:46] <arges> diwic, thanks
[13:47] <diwic> arges, you're most welcome to help out with audio issues as we lack manpower in that area.
[13:49] <arges> diwic, awesome!
[13:52] <scott-work> good morning, diwic!  how are you doing?
[13:53] <diwic> scott-work, good afternoon! I'm fine, how about you?
[13:54] <siretart> the system provided -Bsymbolic-function linker flags breaks on of my packages for precise. do we have a wiki page or something how to deal with that problem?
[13:55] <scott-work> diwic: i believe i am doing well, thank you :)  just trying to resolve a few issues with ubuntu studio before A2
[13:56] <diwic> scott-work, go ahead
[13:59] <diwic> scott-work, if there's anything you want to talk to me about? Otherwise; just keep up the good work :-)
[13:59] <scott-work> diwic: nothing for you, acutally ;)   i just wanted to tell you 'hello' since we had met at uds-p :-)
[14:00] <diwic> scott-work, cool. Not sure how far we are at the PulseAudio <-> JACK handover stuff, last time I checked I remember we weren't there yet
[14:00] <diwic> scott-work, how is the low-latency kernel coming along?
[14:02] <scott-work> diwic: amazingly, REVU does not seem functional at the moment, therefore we are lacking a verctor to get the kernel into the archives currently
[14:03] <scott-work> however, we are exploring other means and i plan to raise the issue during the weekly release team meeting this friday
[14:03] <scott-work> diwic: WRT pulseaudio <-> jack; we are shipping the pulseaudio-module-jack with ubuntu studio, does that not lay the foundation for better integration?
[14:03] <diwic> scott-work, okay, are you finding the resources and people you need for "exploring other means"?
[14:03] <Laney> revu is back up
[14:04] <scott-work> Laney: thank you!  yay!
[14:04] <Laney> thank siretart
[14:04] <diwic> scott-work, it should, but the handover was a bit buggy last time I checked
[14:04] <Laney> :-)
[14:04] <scott-work> siretart: thank you for REVU being up again!
[14:05] <jml> My headset mic doesn't seem to work any more on Ubuntu
[14:05] <scott-work> diwic: i will add checking pulseaudio<->jack integration for A2, would you like feedback on this?
[14:06] <cjwatson> scott-work: mainly we need a clear specification of what your live environment should contain and how the installed system should differ from it
[14:07] <scott-work> cjwatson: i am inferring that you would expect the two to differ (well, actually you stated that pretty explicitly), but i am unsure how you feel they should differ
[14:07] <scott-work> cjwatson: sorry if that was cryptic or oblique, i mean that at this point i don't expect them to differ
[14:08] <cjwatson> scott-work: well, as a simple existence proof, you don't want the installer on the installed system
[14:08] <diwic> scott-work, how important do you feel it is that it actually works (the handover)?
[14:09] <diwic> scott-work, if you/ubuntu-studio feels it's important, I guess I better get down to work and try to fix it ;-)
[14:09] <scott-work> cjwatson: aye, that is true and i think i am beginning to see your perspective
[14:10] <scott-work> cjwatson: i had statically viewed this from an installed system perspective, but you saying with the live environment as a base point, what would not go into the install
[14:11] <scott-work> i had viewed this as what would we exlucde from the installed system to define the live envirnoment
[14:12] <scott-work> diwic: i think that having pulseaudio<->jack integration is rather important and it certainly gives ubuntu studio a sense of legitimacy that other audio distributions already have
[14:13] <cjwatson> scott-work: it's more usual, although not universal, for the live environment to be a superset of the installed system
[14:13] <cjwatson> scott-work: ubiquity is much better at copying vast piles of files from the live environment and then removing a few packages at the end than it is at selecting new packages to install on top
[14:13] <cjwatson> scott-work: anyway, this is why I need a spec of what it should do for your flavour :)
[14:14] <siretart> scott-work: pas de rien, please notify me when it breaks again (but it shouldn't)
[14:15] <scott-work> cjwatson: thank you very much for the explanation :)   is there a particular file in the edubuntu seeds that i can reference to see what they have excluded as examples of things i/we might not have thought about?
[14:21] <cjwatson> scott-work: if you aren't intending any particular differences other than the installer, I can probably deal with it from there; but I do need to know what you want to have in the live system
[14:22] <cjwatson> you'll basically end up with something like the Edubuntu live seed on top
[14:26] <scott-work> cjwatson:  this may be a naive consideration, but are there reasons not to have everything that would be installed available in the live system?
[14:26] <cjwatson> scott-work: only really details like the boot loader
[14:26] <cjwatson> scott-work: or language packs perhaps
[14:26] <cjwatson> scott-work: I'd expect the full set of applications to be available in the live system though
[15:22] <scott-work> cjwatson: that makes sense, thank you again for helping to clarify and explain the scope
[15:22] <scott-work> cjwatson: do you still require anything from me?
[15:23] <scott-work> i feel like i am getting off lightly and feel bad about that fact
[15:27] <Riddell> oSoMoN: hi
[15:27] <oSoMoN> hi Riddell
[15:28] <Riddell> oSoMoN: does this help bug 894805? http://paste.kde.org/188354/
[15:28] <oSoMoN> let me check that
[15:33] <oSoMoN> Riddell: it seems to work indeed, I get "QT_IMPORTS_DIR = /usr/lib/qt4/imports"
[15:34] <Riddell> oSoMoN: was there a real world problem you needed this for?
[15:36] <oSoMoN> Riddell: yes, let me find the link to the real-world problem
[15:38] <oSoMoN> Riddell: the issue was originally uncovered here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ballogy/bamf-qt/fix-imports-dir-location/+merge/83248
[15:38] <Riddell> actually I think this is a better fix
[15:38] <Riddell> http://paste.kde.org/188366/
[15:39] <Riddell> but I wish I knew why it was like that in the first place
[15:40] <oSoMoN> Riddell: and here is actual code that works around the issue and that would benefit from a fix: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/bamf-qt/trunk/view/head:/CMakeLists.txt#L108
[15:41] <cjwatson> scott-work: well, I don't know what set of packages you want in your live environment yet :-)
[15:41] <Riddell> oSoMoN: ok I think I can upload my fix but I'd like to ask upstream too because I suspect I'm misunderstanding it
[15:42] <oSoMoN> Riddell: I can confirm that both patches seem to fix the issue
[15:42] <Riddell> agateau: do you have an opinion on http://paste.kde.org/188366/ for bug 894805 ?
[15:43] <agateau> Riddell: the patch makes sense to me
[15:44] <Riddell> thanks
[15:44] <agateau> Riddell: I would just enclose ${qt_imports_dir} with double quotes, in case it's empty
[15:45] <scott-work> cjwatson: if we expect to make some new package sets (i.e. tasks or seeds) further in the cycle, should we include those now (even though they are not fully defined) or can this be addes easily later to the live-dvd?
[15:45] <scott-work> i think this is the last bit of information before i can answer you fully
[15:45] <cjwatson> scott-work: it'll be easy enough to add them later
[15:46] <cjwatson> scott-work: if I were you I would keep the seeds for the current tasks in place, and we can just have the live DVD assembled out of an appropriate selection of those, with stuff like the installer bolted on top
[15:47] <cjwatson> I just need to know which, really
[15:49] <Riddell> agateau: you mean like "${qt_imports_dir}" ?
[15:49] <Riddell> or what?
[15:49] <agateau> Riddell: yes
[15:50] <Riddell> oh so it ends up as an empty string if the variable is empty
[15:50] <scott-work> cjwatson: aye, we would be adding new seeds/tasks to supplement the current seeds/tasks
[15:50] <Riddell> cmake, nicer than the alternatives but still funny syntax
[15:50] <scott-work> cjwatson: i believe we need:  audio-common, audio-plugins, desktop, font-meta, generation, graphics, recording, video
[15:50] <agateau> Riddell: :)
[15:51] <scott-work_> cjwatson: i lost connection and will repeat my last statement
[15:51] <scott-work_> cjwatson: i belive we need:  audio-common, audio-plugins, desktop, font-meta, generation, graphics, recording, and video
[15:52] <scott-work_> cjwatson: i presume we do not need ffmpeg-common as i believe it is used to make sure the other seeds pull the correct files
[15:52] <cjwatson> that'll get pulled automatically
[15:52] <cjwatson> OK
[16:04] <Riddell> oSoMoN: bug 894805 has an item for oneiric, should it be fixed there?
[16:05] <oSoMoN> Riddell: would be nice to have but not essential
[16:05] <sabdfl> hi folks
[16:06] <sabdfl> am getting some persistent badsig errors on updates
[16:06] <sabdfl> W: GPG error: http://archive.canonical.com precise Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[16:06] <sabdfl> W: GPG error: http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[16:06] <sabdfl> is there a standard way to check that archive keys are correct?
[16:07] <cjwatson> sabdfl: analysis in comment 67 of bug 24061 may match
[16:07] <sabdfl> colin, you rock star :)
[16:08] <cjwatson> I would be inclined to 'sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/*Release && sudo apt-get update'
[16:09] <cjwatson> I suspect you'll find that those Release files in /var/lib/apt/lists/ have junk in them
[16:09] <sabdfl> how would they have been corrupted? proxies?
[16:09] <cjwatson> there are basically two possibilities
[16:09] <cjwatson> the one in that bug is the situation where you've been behind a captive portal at some point and you accidentally ended up with HTML junk in place of Release files
[16:09] <sabdfl> ah
[16:09] <sabdfl> <A href="https://secure32.ibahn.com/purchase/purchase?MA=f0-de-f1-72-19-d2&SC=AUSW2&DI=169628198&PN=20&BD=e8668ed1&PX=false" name=a1>Click Here To Continue</A>

[16:09] <sabdfl> yes
[16:10] <cjwatson> the other (which I think happens in Millbank from time to time) is that the proxy caches mismatched versions of Release and Release.gpg
[16:10] <sabdfl> do ew not sanity check updates?
[16:10] <cjwatson> it's a bit buggy, as per that bug
[16:10] <sabdfl> before writing them?
[16:10] <cjwatson> we're supposed to but there are a couple of dodgy edge cases
[16:11] <cjwatson> David seemed to understand the problem in that bug so I was planning to leave him to it :)
[16:11] <cjwatson> the mismatch problem will be solved once we switch to inline-signed Release files, but we have to cycle to a new archive signing key first
[16:11] <smoser> sabdfl, cjwatson last week i put together https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/+junk/check-archive/ that checks each of the dns mirrors for a given archive.
[16:11] <sabdfl> ok
[16:12] <cjwatson> (because of a bug in some old version of apt that we'd be rendering exploitable otherwise - sigh)
[16:12] <sabdfl> how often have we cycled keys?
[16:12] <infinity> Never.
[16:12] <sabdfl> i see barry's got this inprogress
[16:12] <cjwatson> the word "cough" comes to mind
[16:12] <sabdfl> he
[16:12] <cjwatson> we've tested the process
[16:13] <sabdfl> *cough*tested
[16:13] <sabdfl> fresh keys for 12.04, let's not do *that* in a hurry :)
[16:13] <cjwatson> but it'll have to be done at some point, maybe prepare at the next release sprint and do it for 12.10
[16:14] <cjwatson> I hoped to do it at the last one but we failed to get round to it
[16:17] <doko> now I fixed my precise installation, and X complains about the config (too low resolution) and I dont have a visible mouse
[16:17] <roaksoax> .win 12
[16:39] <jodh> doko: are you using nvidia by any chance?
[16:42] <ttx> bdmurray: around ?
[16:43] <bdmurray> ttx: yes
[16:43] <ttx> bdmurray: we are looking into doing bugdays on the openstack project, and I was wondering if we could reuse your graphs
[16:43] <ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20111027#Progress
[16:43] <ttx> to track progress during the event
[16:44] <bdmurray> ttx: for the project not the package right?
[16:45] <ttx> yes.
[16:45] <ttx> bdmurray: for example for https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova
[16:49] <mdeslaur> @pilot out
[16:53] <reed> hi all
[17:01] <doko> jodh: yes
[17:02] <jodh> doko: I think you may have hit bug 915334 then: I had exactly the same experience as you describe.
[18:17] <YokoZar> Why is opencl-headers in multiverse?
[18:57] <bdmurray> mvo: should there be an html version of DevelReleaseAnnouncment at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/dist-upgrader-all/current/ ?
[18:59] <mvo> bdmurray: yes, its auto-generated on bzr-buildpackage, but I guess that it really should be part of the rules file instead, there is no reason not to put it there
[19:26]  * ScottK notes to lamont to peddle faster.  2.9.0 RC1 is out ...
[19:27] <lamont> we do not upload rcs
[19:27] <lamont> I may just say "hell with it" and upload the ~build0 revs to precise directly
[21:10] <mwhudson> barry: around?
[21:11] <barry> mwhudson: yes!  how are you?
[21:11] <mwhudson> barry: i am good thanks
[21:12] <mwhudson> barry: do you have any idea why a friend might get this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/536930/ running apt-get upgrade?
[21:12] <barry> hmm, not off hand, but let me look for something...
[21:13] <barry> mwhudson: do you know which version he's running the upgrade on?
[21:13] <mwhudson> barry: no, that would have been a good question
[21:15] <mwhudson> barry: lucid
[21:18] <barry> mwhudson: just a sec...
[21:18] <mwhudson> barry: i now have an account with sudo on the machine in question :-)
[21:21] <barry> mwhudson: lpbug 689306
[21:21] <mwhudson> barry: ah, this is a lucid -> maverick upgrade in progress
[21:22] <barry> mwhudson: see comment #9 in bug 689306
[21:22] <barry> we really should fix this properly :/
[21:22] <mwhudson> ah hah
[21:23] <mwhudson> barry: so basically the trick is to install python2.7-minimal and python2.7 from natty?
[21:24] <barry> mwhudson: that's what doko suggests.  i haven't run into this personally
[21:24] <fijal> hi
[21:24] <mwhudson> barry, meet fijal :-)
[21:25] <barry> hi fijal :)
[21:25] <fijal> hi barry :)
[21:26] <barry> fijal: are you "the friend"? :)
[21:26] <fijal> I hope so ;-)
[21:26] <barry> :)
[21:27]  * mwhudson runs dpkg --configure --pending, it is doing some stuff
[21:27] <mwhudson> but python2.7-minimal failed
[21:28] <barry> and that was after installing the natty versions?
[21:28] <fijal> barry: I think I tried to upgrade to natty and then to oneiric
[21:29] <fijal> but it all failed fairly horribly
[21:29] <barry> :(
[21:29] <mwhudson> lsb-release thinks it's maverick currently fwiw
[21:29] <fijal> I don't even need python2.7, since I have tons of pythons somewhere else ;-)
[21:30] <barry> fijal: you might try uninstalling python2.7 and python2.7-minimal then.  you'll get them back during the upgrade
[21:30] <fijal> how do I uninstall them?
[21:30] <fijal> apt-get remove fails
[21:31] <barry> dang
[21:31] <fijal> because stuff is half-installed
[21:31] <fijal> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/536945/
[21:31] <fijal> barry: to be precise
[21:32] <barry> fijal: try apt-get -f install but i bet it will fail
[21:32] <fijal> that goes back to python2.7-minimal failing
[21:33] <fijal> barry: are there fixed versions of those packets available somewhere?
[21:33] <barry> fijal: did you see the above comment about bug 689306 comment #9 ?
[21:33] <mwhudson> well, judging by the bug report, natty
[21:33] <barry> in that doko suggests where to get the working packages
[21:34] <mwhudson> i also wonder if you can hack the postinst
[21:34] <fijal> barry: so why does oneiric ones don't work?
[21:34] <mwhudson> or mv /usr/share/python/runtime.d/public_modules.rtinstall /usr/share/python/runtime.d/public_modules.rtinstall-disabled, or something
[21:34] <barry> fijal: did you try the oneiric ones, or are you asking whether you can try the oneiric ones?
[21:35] <fijal> barry: I did try the oneiric ones
[21:35] <fijal> (I guess those were downloaded when I did dist-upgrade)
[21:35] <fijal> in related news, aptitude dist-upgrade ate 4G of RAM and crashed :/
[21:35] <mwhudson> fijal: you know skipping releases is unsupported right?
[21:35] <fijal> mwhudson: no :)
[21:35] <mwhudson> ah
[21:35] <mwhudson> well
[21:35] <mwhudson> fijal: skipping releases is unsupported
[21:35] <mwhudson> unless it's lts->lts
[21:36] <barry> yep
[21:36] <fijal> ah ok
[21:36] <fijal> so how do I get out of mess?
[21:36] <fijal> do I do upgrade maverick->natty->oneiric?
[21:36] <fijal> or would it just all fail?
[21:36] <fijal> since there is stuff installed already
[21:36] <mwhudson> well, i guess going back in time and starting again would be best :-)
[21:36] <mwhudson> i don't know that "unsupported" means "doesn't work"
[21:37] <mwhudson> just "isn't tested"
[21:37] <fijal> apparently
[21:37] <barry> fijal: i would first try to get out of the python2.7-minimal mess by installing the natty version
[21:37] <fijal> that's the same thing, isn't it
[21:37] <fijal> barry: that started the problem
[21:37] <barry> darn
[21:37] <mwhudson> fijal: i'd like to try mv /usr/share/python/runtime.d/public_modules.rtinstall /usr/share/python/runtime.d/public_modules.rtinstall-disabled
[21:38] <mwhudson> and then dpkg-reconfigure --pending
[21:38] <mwhudson> and then put it back
[21:38] <barry> yeah, give that a shot
[21:38] <fijal> mwhudson: try?
[21:38] <fijal> mwhudson: it won't be any worse, seriously
[21:38] <mwhudson> ok going
[21:39] <mwhudson> ok, now it's just the perl crud that's failing to configure
[21:39] <barry> mwhudson: what's this "perl" thing of which you speak?
[21:39] <mwhudson> fijal: it's going to take a while, so maybe you should run it: try apt-get install -f again
[21:40] <fijal> running
[21:46] <fijal> mwhudson: works much better
[21:46] <mwhudson> yay
[21:47] <fijal> mwhudson: any surprizes ahead?
[21:47] <barry> yay
[21:47] <mwhudson> fijal: if i knew that, it wouldn't be a surprise, would it? :)
[21:47] <fijal> :]
[21:47] <fijal> surprises for me ;-)
[21:47] <mwhudson> judging from /var/log/apt/term.log it seems to be going fine
[21:48] <mwhudson> fijal: are you in .za?
[21:48] <fijal> mwhudson: ya
[21:48] <mwhudson> i'm surprised how easy it is to type over ssh
[21:48] <fijal> seems like gonna stay here for the forseeable future
[21:49] <mwhudson> you must have good internet
[21:49] <fijal> ssh goes via poland btw
[21:49] <mwhudson> !
[21:49] <fijal> the best!
[21:49] <fijal> 4M ADSL
[21:50] <fijal> (I'm serious, that's the best option I could get)
[21:50] <mwhudson> heh
[21:50] <fijal> mwhudson: you should come and visit :)
[21:50] <fijal> it's not *that* far
[21:50] <mwhudson> i do some stuff currently which involves ssh over dsl to the uk and it's a royal pain
[21:50]  * fijal somehow enjoys sentences with "royal" and "uk"
[21:51] <mwhudson> fijal: heh would be nice
[21:51] <mwhudson> probably not soon, realistically
[21:51] <fijal> I'm not in a rush
[21:51] <fijal> (this is africa after all)
[21:51] <mwhudson> :)
[21:52] <fijal> I would come to NZ if some conference pays for tickets ;-)
[21:58] <fijal> tumbleweed: hi :)
[21:59] <tumbleweed> hi
[21:59] <tumbleweed> I see you are sorted, good :)
[21:59] <fijal> so....
[22:00] <fijal> how do we go about debian -> ubuntu pypy import?
[22:00] <tumbleweed> good question
[22:00] <tumbleweed> this time of night is bad for these sort of discussions
[22:01] <fijal> ok :)
[22:01] <fijal> I'm fine having it tomorrow
[22:01] <micahg> tumbleweed: we're still mid-day in the US here :)
[22:01] <tumbleweed> micahg: I can't see ScottK or doko
[22:02]  * ScottK is staying far away from pypy.
[22:02] <tumbleweed> barry: any thoughts on sneaking a pypy into precise? (It would be a only-useful-with-virtualenv pypy)
[22:02] <tumbleweed> ScottK: hrm, my tabc-completion didn't see you
[22:02] <ScottK> tumbleweed: It's still pre-Feature Freeze, so no sneaking required.
[22:03] <tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah, I notice most of debian-python is :)
[22:03] <barry> tumbleweed: hi.  there was some feedback from michael foord suggesting that we really should package 1.7 instead of 1.6 (or 1.8 if it were ready in time)
[22:03] <barry> fijal: ^^
[22:03] <mwhudson> fijal: looks like something blew up again
[22:03] <mwhudson> kde this time
[22:03] <tumbleweed> we have 1.7 now. 1.8 is expected to release soon, and would be easy enough to upgrade to
[22:03] <fijal> I can have it in a week-two
[22:03] <fijal> when is feature freeze?
[22:04] <tumbleweed> fijal: round the corner, but this is a leaf package, so we can upload a new version after the freeze
[22:04] <mwhudson>   Package udev is not configured yet. doesn't look happy
[22:04] <tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[22:04] <barry> tumbleweed: so, it's just a matter of syncing it from experimental?
[22:04] <tumbleweed> barry: it hasn't built on arm in Debian (none of the buildds have enough ram)
[22:05] <barry> :)
[22:05] <mwhudson> Removing 'diversion of /sbin/udevadm to /sbin/udevadm.upgrade by fake-udev'
[22:05] <mwhudson> info: unrecognized option '--convert-db'
[22:05] <mwhudson> dpkg: error processing udev (--configure):
[22:05] <tumbleweed> but it seems to work fine on x86 and ppc (although there are some lingering big-endian issues)
[22:05] <tumbleweed> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=pypy&suite=experimental <- pretty sorry state :/
[22:05] <barry> i'm a big +1 on it even if it's only usable in a virtualenv
[22:05] <tumbleweed> in that case, I need to get our virtualenv to support it
[22:06] <barry> tumbleweed: hmm. have you tried to build it in a ppa?
[22:06] <tumbleweed> barry: non-canonical, I don't get armel PPAs
[22:06] <tumbleweed> but no, I haven't
[22:07] <fijal> as far as we're concerned, pypy on ARM & PPC will be useful in some months
[22:07] <fijal> not now and not 1.8
[22:07] <barry> i actually have a local armel buildbot so i could do a bit of debugging.  well, let me grab the debian package and build it in my ppa and see how it goes.
[22:07] <barry> fijal: ah
[22:07] <tumbleweed> barry: you'll need 2G of RAM
[22:07] <fijal> barry: it has not JIT
[22:07] <fijal> and as such "just a less compatible python that's a fair bit slower"
[22:07] <mwhudson> we need some of these http://www.calxeda.com/products/energycore/ecx1000
[22:07] <barry> ouch, okay, maybe not on my local arm box :)
[22:07] <fijal> is not *really* that interesting
[22:08] <fijal> no JIT
[22:08] <barry> well, even i386 and amd64 would be very nice to have
[22:08] <fijal> yes
[22:08] <tumbleweed> fijal: sure, but once we start integrating it with other packages, we need it to be at least functional on all archs
[22:08] <fijal> those are two platforms where I can see uses
[22:08] <tumbleweed> otherwise things just get too messy
[22:08] <fijal> ok
[22:08] <fijal> tumbleweed: still, months away
[22:09] <tumbleweed> yeah, but that's not important for precies, I think
[22:09] <fijal> also because we don't have buildbots
[22:09] <barry> i think a big question, which also affects jython and is really a question for debian-python, is how do we provide packages for alternative implementations?
[22:09] <barry> but we can worry about that later
[22:09] <fijal> barry: can we say "we don't" for now?
[22:09] <barry> fijal: yes, definitely (imo)
[22:09] <fijal> "use it with virtualenv" does not sound like a bad idea
[22:09] <barry> fijal: agreed
[22:10] <tumbleweed> but we need to start thinking of a long-term plan
[22:10] <barry> okay, let me start by building the experimental package in my ppa and see how that goes. if it looks reasonable, i'll sync it (but it'll end up in the new queue and will need approval)
[22:10] <fijal> barry: btw, our releases are loosely-time-based and there are no reasons why they happen at the point they do
[22:10] <fijal> so we can somehow coordinates times, if that would help you
[22:10] <fijal> (as a symmetry breaking thing rather)
[22:11] <tumbleweed> barry: grab the current git head, I bumpde the memory requirement in the last upload, but it looks like it was unecessary (it wasn't the problem on ia64, I don't know what was)
[22:12] <barry> tumbleweed: i'm still trying to figure out how to use !svn with debian :(
[22:12] <slangasek> why does evince no longer give me a total page count?
[22:13] <fijal> I'm going to bed anyway
[22:13] <barry> fijal: i think if you released a 1.8 by mid-february, tumbleweed could update debian, and then we could sync into ubuntu in time
[22:13] <fijal> barry: I'll certainly do that, preferably in Jan
[22:13] <tumbleweed> barry: I added PEP3147, but I'm not convinced that was necessary, yet. I'd love feedback :)
[22:13] <barry> fijal: that would be great,then we wouldn't have to do a freeze exception
[22:14] <fijal> barry: our releases are very light :)
[22:14] <fijal> they're just blessed nightlies that don't fail tests
[22:14] <tumbleweed> barry: if you want to sync it, I'll grant the exception :P
[22:14] <barry> tumbleweed: nice!  i'm not sure either, but it can't hurt :)
[22:14] <fijal> but don't tell anyone ;-)
[22:14] <barry> fijal: :)
[22:14] <barry> tumbleweed: beauty
[22:20] <TheMuso> p/c