[07:56] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:56] <popey> Morning
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - I note that the cyanogen team have issued the 1st build of ICS for the Touchpad :-) Might be breaking my TP tonight then...
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Want me to collect you on the way this morning?
[08:06] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:22] <Linuxsapien> halloooo
[08:22] <Linuxsapien> windy windy bawbag
[08:26] <MooDoo> lol
[08:26] <christel> morning beauties
[08:26] <MooDoo> morning ma'am
[08:31] <daubers> Morning
[08:31]  * daubers has spinny pyramids on his screen :)
[08:40] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: that would be great
[08:48] <christel> oh AlanBell, i want to chat you up about a proposal i have at some point, but we may need to beer so that you're more likely to say yes! <3
[08:48] <MooDoo> christel: isn't he already married? ;)
[08:49] <christel> haha
[08:49] <christel> not that sort of proposal :P
[08:49] <christel> i wouldn't wish to anger mrsbell ;)
[08:50] <MooDoo> heee /<smartassmodeoff>
[08:50] <christel> :P
[08:56]  * AlanBell looks forward to being chatted up by christel 
[08:56] <AlanBell> and beer
[08:59] <christel> \o/
[09:03] <daubers> When's the Easter holidays this year?
[09:03] <gord> not soon enough
[09:04] <daubers> gord: In need of chocolate bunnies already?
[09:04] <gord> i started seing easter eggs in shop january 1st (no joke)
[09:05] <MooDoo> gord: i bought my wife one from our local shop Dec 23rd :)
[09:07] <awilkins> I detest <insert shamelessly commercialised seasonal event here>
[09:07] <dwatkins> morning folks :)
[09:07] <MooDoo> morninh
[09:19] <bigcalm_lappy> Good morning peeps :)
[09:19] <MooDoo> morning
[09:19] <bigcalm_lappy> I'm on a train to London. Sadly going backwards, but I do have a table!
[09:21] <MooDoo> yay and wifi?
[09:22] <bigcalm_lappy> The train has wifi, but I'm using my phone instead
[09:22] <bigcalm_lappy> Tethered that is
[09:22] <bigcalm_lappy> 6 quid for 3 hours isn't bad, but I cba really
[09:22] <bigcalm_lappy> I even have a mains socket!
[09:24] <christel> 6 quid for 3 hours is pretty steep :P
[09:24] <bigcalm_lappy> christel: depends upon what you're charging for ;)
[09:25] <christel> haha
[09:25] <christel> well i presume it was for wifi :P
[09:25] <bigcalm_lappy> Ah, yes
[09:26]  * bigcalm_lappy remembers where he is
[09:26] <christel> :P
[09:27] <dwatkins> Mobile broadband is good enough except just south of Edinburgh from what I've seen recently.
[09:28] <bigcalm_lappy> I could play minecraft, if I had the table space for a mouse
[09:29] <oimon> found a great way of making apple tea. apple juice + boiling water :D
[09:32] <daubers> Hmm.... fun bug with new laptop. When i remove the mains powerer, the powersaving on the wifi stops the wifi working
[09:33] <oimon> daubers: is that a software or hardware/firmware  issue?
[09:36] <bigcalm_lappy> Humm, how do you exit w3m?
[09:37] <bigcalm_lappy> qy
[09:39] <daubers> oimon: Software I think
[09:42] <daubers> if I turn off power management with iwconfig it's fine
[09:42] <DJones> bigcalm_lappy: Get some lessons from MMolay on how to play with a touchpad
[09:42] <bigcalm_lappy> Heh
[09:42] <oimon> new rhythmbox appeared in this morning's 12.04 update
[09:42] <bigcalm_lappy> I've done it in the past, but it's just not the same
[09:43] <bigcalm_lappy> I gave 12.04 a go and it works well. Sadly, not well enough to be 100% reliable for my dev requirements.
[09:44] <bigcalm_lappy> Did I survive the tunnel?
[09:44] <bigcalm_lappy> !ping
[09:44] <bigcalm_lappy> Just, phew
[09:46]  * BigRedS is installing 12.04 on his work PC
[09:46] <BigRedS> is it less good than Oneiric? At home it seems better
[09:46]  * DJones wonders why piratebay hasn't gone black today :)
[09:49] <BadgerUK> hello, in a traceback in terminal, how do i know what the error at the end of the traceback is refering to?  is it the first line in the traceback or the last
[09:50] <gord> BadgerUK, do you mean backtrace?
[09:51] <j0nr> mornig folks.
[09:51] <gord> that would be the first line, the one with a 1 next to it
[09:51] <BadgerUK> gord: no i mean traceback
[09:51] <j0nr> I have someone who is an Ubuntu virgin and wanting to set up a home server.
[09:51] <BadgerUK> gord: it might be specifically from python
[09:51] <BarryK> to serve what?
[09:51] <BadgerUK> i dont know as im new to linux and its the only time ive seen a traceback
[09:52] <j0nr> I just had a question: Can I set up auto backup of folders on pcs connected to the network?
[09:52] <gord> sounds like a python thing
[09:52] <BadgerUK> gord: thnx
[09:52] <Myrtti> j0nr: dejadup does that if you set it up to do it
[09:52] <j0nr> Now I think usually, you would use software on the client, to push backups to the server, can it be pulled the other way?
[09:53] <j0nr> baring in mind the pcs might not be linux
[09:53] <Myrtti> I even got a prompt in Oneiric on my tablet to set dejadup backups
[09:53] <BarryK> @j0nr: So long as the servers have read access to the folders in question it shouldnt be a problem
[09:53] <Myrtti> oh, that way
[09:54] <j0nr> BarryK: That's what I thought, all the folders desired to be backed up would have to be 'shares'
[09:54] <j0nr> or somethign similar
[09:54] <j0nr> I'll tell him to do it the other way
[09:54] <BarryK> yeah pretty much, though depending on where you want to do it and what you want to back up you might bump into a few permission issues
[09:55] <BarryK> I'd just have the clients push their backups, that way you can make sure its when the client is idle
[09:56] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:57] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:57] <BarryK> morning
[09:58] <oimon> is imgur.com down for SOPA reasons?
[09:59] <dwatkins> oimon: looks like it's simply down
[09:59] <BarryK> down here too
[09:59] <dwatkins> I think they were considering a protest, though.
[09:59] <oimon> meh
[09:59] <j0nr> BarryK: Going to recommend use of samba shares. Mount server directories and use them to either work in or 'put stuff in' to be backed up.
[10:00] <j0nr> then of course backup the backup ;)
[10:00] <BarryK> I'd put the backups somewhere else if i were you but yeah sounds like a plan
[10:01] <BarryK> if they're all windows machines have a seperate user acc run the scheduled backup and deny the normal user access to the backup location
[10:01] <BarryK> if that makes sense lol it is very early
[10:12] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
[10:12] <MooDoo> mor   JamesTait h w ar ou?
[10:12] <MooDoo> i'm blacking out my responces ;)
[10:13] <JamesTait> MooDoo: I caught that. ;)  V ry w ll th  ks.
[10:13] <MooDoo> lol
[10:17] <Myrtti> spkng witht vwls s s f yv hd trnng wth t rlr
[10:17] <Myrtti> n thr nws https://twitter.com/#!/Encarta95/status/159526112563695616
[10:18] <bigcalm_lappy> 1st tunnel to kill my connection and now I'm at Watford Junction
[10:19] <j0nr> BarryK: Do you just mean don't give users access to the backup of the shared drives?
[10:23] <dwatkins> bigcalm_lappy: travelling North or South?
[10:24] <bigcalm_lappy> dwatkins: South
[10:24] <bigcalm_lappy> About to enter Euston station I hope
[10:24] <dwatkins> heh, say hello to the warm beer for me, bigcalm_lappy ;)
[10:24] <czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/johnoxton/status/159576110479319040
[10:26] <bigcalm_lappy> \o/
[10:26] <Laney> morning
[10:26] <BarryK> yeah I wouldn't but it depends on where the roll out is.  You don't want someone wiping the backups by mistake
[10:26] <BarryK> but if it's for home use or something like that I wouldn't worry too much, it's a fair bit of extra effort compared to just creating some extra smb shares
[10:29] <bigcalm_lappy> Right, time to pack away!
[10:29] <bigcalm_lappy> Toodles for the day :)
[10:35] <czajkowski> enjoy the wet and rain
[10:41] <zleap> how do i search for things using unity,  with gnome i can click on places and search, but this option seems hidden
[10:45] <zleap> oki can search for them but the files and folder utility does not tell me where these files are located on my system so i can copy more files in to that folder
[10:48] <DJones> Heh wikiepedia's "blackout" is so good, you just search for what you want, press escape as the page is loading and the blackout is cancelled :)
[10:48] <MooDoo> hehe
[10:49] <czajkowski> http://theoatmeal.com/sopa :)
[10:49] <sagaci> I actually wanted to search for something a few hours ago
[10:49] <Myrtti> DJones: or use en.m.
[10:50] <gord> quality of homework handed in tomorrow morning is going to be severely reduced
[10:51] <zleap> well there are other sources of information for homework
[10:51] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i laughed when i watched that :D
[10:51] <zleap> gordon the other hand,  if wikipedia was to go off line fully the quality of homework could be affected longer term
[10:53] <dwatkins> I wonder how many kids will google how to work around the wikipedia javascript this evening...
[10:53] <gord> rather serendipitous typo
[10:54] <zleap> lol
[10:54] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:55] <zleap> gord yeah see your point regarding the typo,
[10:55] <zleap> hello s-fox
[10:55] <s-fox> Hello zleap :)
[10:55] <zleap> :)
[10:56] <s-fox> How are you doing?
[10:56] <DJones> gord: The quality may be reduced, but the accuracy might be improved
[10:56] <zleap> ok so back to the ubuntu search tool,  i can search for files but the tool does not actually tell me Where the files are  which is i guess fine in most cases i want to know where these files are so i can create 1 foilder will all the downloaded .deb files in for example
[10:57] <zleap> folder
[10:58] <zleap> s-fox, i am good thanks
[11:05] <MooDoo> howdy s-fox
[11:07] <gord> zleap, <super> - type search, use the search for files... app
[11:14]  * smittix taps MooDoo on the shoulder o/
[11:15] <MooDoo> not here smittix
[11:15] <MooDoo> ;)
[11:16] <MooDoo> hello :D
[11:16] <MooDoo> smittix: how are you?
[11:18] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:22] <smittix> MooDoo: Im great and you>
[11:22] <MooDoo> smittix: yeah pretty good, got man flu
[11:23] <smittix> :/
[11:30] <MooDoo> smittix: i'll cope :D
[11:31] <oimon> i've had 2 bouts of it, lasting over 1 month :(
[11:50] <czajkowski> daubers: I have the house for you http://9gag.com/gag/1897593
[11:51] <s-fox> :-)
[11:51] <MooDoo> what a wonderful house
[11:52] <gord> hobbettses
[11:54] <oimon> is that a gaping hole in the roof?
[11:55] <s-fox> It's to let the sunshine in ;)
[11:56] <oimon> can't be the uk then
[11:56] <oimon> sunshine in the uk is liquid
[12:01] <daubers> czajkowski: awesome :)
[12:05] <Myrtti> of course the joke is that it's not a joke
[12:06] <popey> a guy who used to work for canonical has an underground house
[12:07] <brobostigon> skype for android is huge, 16MB, that is abit big, for memory limited devices.
[12:07] <Myrtti> http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm
[12:14] <czajkowski> popey: wow
[12:14] <gordonjcp> popey: I considered building an earthship up north
[12:15] <gordonjcp> http://earthship.com/ <- probably not as ornate as that
[12:15] <gordonjcp> and more dug into a hillside
[12:17] <Myrtti> pretty much impossible to do in Finland :-(
[12:46] <DJones> Did anybody notice a "nationwide failure" of VM Broadband? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16611686
[12:48] <MooDoo> yeah it was down yesterday
[12:49] <DJones> I'm surprised they didn't blame it on SOPA
[12:50] <MooDoo> hehe
[12:51] <oimon> bbc are reporting that you can't get info off wikipedia
[12:51] <oimon> fail
[12:51] <MooDoo> just press esc as the page loads :)
[12:51] <oimon> or a million other ways..but that's the easiest :)
[12:52] <oimon> i had to look up chun li street fighter this morning
[12:52] <oimon> the bbc even featured a quote from orlowski from the register...even worse
[12:57] <Neoti_Laptop> hey all
[12:57] <Neoti_Laptop> does anybody have any details of the internet outtage on virgin media and peers like level3 ?
[12:58] <DJones> Neoti_Laptop: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16611686 Any use?
[13:00] <Neoti_Laptop> thanks DJones...
[13:01] <Neoti_Laptop> also have you heard of problems with level3 peering and linkz peering on the core network ...
[13:01] <DJones> I hadn't heard anything, only heard about the VM problem last night when I saw that article a few minutes ago
[13:02] <Neoti_Laptop> oh .... doh .... lolz..... yeah some peering providers have problems .... still .... big problems for me and voip network ... lol ... doh...
[13:04] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[13:04] <bigcalm> Is there an option to display whitespace types in NetBeans? Like Eclipse would be good
[13:23] <oimon> just been looking at yahoo's financial results to work out how they make money
[13:27] <oimon> it seems they still make a huge amount from search/advertising. who would use them over google i wonder (for search or advertising?)
[13:40] <directhex> generally, partner agreements
[13:40] <directhex> i.e. "hey $OEM, we pay you $3 to change the default search engine on every new PC"
[13:40] <ali1234> the same people who use yahoo mail instead of gmail
[13:42] <oimon> = the same people who think wikipedia is actually unavailable today
[13:43] <jutnux> Hahhahaha
[13:43] <jutnux> en.m.wikipedia.org
[13:43] <jutnux> sorted
[13:49] <DJones> Just looking for something, I came across this ppa https://launchpad.net/~canonical-pse/+archive/guinness "A very irish set of packages, with a correctly spelt name!"
[13:51] <oimon> are they green? upside down?
[13:53] <DJones> Good question, I wondered that
[13:53] <DJones> czajkowski: Can you answer that question? ^^
[13:55] <czajkowski> DJones: answer....
[13:56]  * czajkowski peers at TREllis wtf are ye on over there! 
[13:56] <DJones> czajkowski: Wondering whether you knew what the difference was on the "guinness" ppa I mentioned above
[13:56] <czajkowski> DJones: no idea ask TREllis
[13:56] <czajkowski> UCD is a university
[13:58] <oimon> it's dangerous to update these kind of packages from a PPA that isn't official
[13:58] <oimon> (captain obvious)
[14:01] <TREllis> czajkowski: that's a set of packages I've backported (and fwdported)
[14:01] <TREllis> czajkowski: for a project
[14:02] <TREllis> DJones: your mileage may vary, may eat babies, you get to keep all the pieces etc
[14:02] <DJones> Heh
[14:04] <TREllis> DJones: Although, they work for me (tm).
[14:44] <oimon> on twitter, does preceding a @user with a dot mean the message is private?
[14:45] <gord> i wouldn't assume anything on twitter is private
[14:45] <MooDoo> not that i'm aware of, what you need is D for direct message iirc
[14:46] <oimon> hmm maybe it was an old functionality
[14:47] <simondbull> the more pressing issue i find is why didn't twitter take part in the anti-SOPA protest?
[14:47] <oimon> or why there wasn't a liberal campaign on twitter about it?
[14:48] <oimon> it's not as if twitter is making $$
[14:48] <simondbull> oimon:good call :)
[14:48] <simondbull> oimon:money, what money?!
[14:48] <oimon> gord, it amazes me the stuff i read on people's twitter feeds, as if they've forgotten this isn't personal email inbox
[14:49] <oimon> twitter should try charging those with 1000 followers for a pro account.
[14:49] <oimon> if they want to monetize their current popularity with the trendies
[14:50] <Myrtti> simondbull: I'm not sure if money was the reason
[14:50] <Myrtti> I would hope they didn't blackout because they considered it to be more helpful if they'd keep the "channel open" for reporting other protests
[14:51] <popey> putting a dot in front of the @ makes the tweet public
[14:51] <oimon> popey: cheers
[14:51] <AlanBell> oimon: if a tweet starts with @name then it doesn't show on other people's feeds (thought they can find it easily enough) people put a dot in front so that the conversation is more public
[14:51] <popey> ^^ that
[14:51] <oimon> i get it now
[14:51]  * oimon doesn't communicate on twitter
[14:51] <oimon> i use it like radio
[14:55] <simondbull> alanbell: i like the designs you did for the UbuntuTV
[14:57] <Pendulum> simondbull: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/sopa-twitter-will-not-join-wikipedia-reddit-in-blackout/2012/01/17/gIQAvDta5P_story.html?tid=pm_business_pop (has some of the reasoning why they won't take part)
[14:57] <AlanBell> well it was more a framework for other people to design on, but thanks simondbull
[14:58] <simondbull> pendulum: thanks :)
[14:58] <oimon> twitter is a business?
[14:58] <ahayzen> alanbell: Have Canonical starting talking to hardware manafacturers yet, or is that information not public?
[14:59] <Seeker`> Jabber \o/
[14:59] <AlanBell> ahayzen: I don't work for canonical, but they were at CES where therer are lots of hardware manufacturers to talk to
[14:59] <Myrtti> Pendulum: did I get my assumptions right?
[14:59] <ahayzen> alanbell: Thanks...would love a Ubuntu TV :)
[15:00] <Myrtti> looks like I kinda did
[15:00] <Myrtti> in other news, I blacked out some pictures of Lamar Smith in Flickr
[15:00] <Myrtti> :-D
[15:02] <oimon> who he?
[15:03] <oimon> mmm flapjacks with ginger
[15:04] <ahayzen> oimon: mmm flapjacks
[15:04] <MattJ> JABBER \o/
[15:04] <MattJ> Jabber flapjacks
[15:04] <ahayzen> gotta try this at some point :) ... http://ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/10/5-minute-chocolate-cake-in-a-mug/
[15:05] <simondbull> i wouldn't like to clean up my microwave after tht....
[15:06] <jutnux> I tried it and failed
[15:06] <jutnux> it tasted disgusting
[15:06] <ahayzen> jutnux: lol
[15:06] <simondbull> jutnux: my mum would kill me if i left the microwave in that state....
[15:10] <gord> http://s0.2mdn.net/2768331/PID_1883817_default.jpg <-- why would you choose that to advertise fibre internet? - what is it trying to say?
[15:11] <ahayzen> gord: confused...
[15:11] <oimon> what's the diffrence between seagate barracuda and barracuda XT?
[15:11] <oimon> cache, rpm , etc seem the same
[15:12] <ahayzen> oimon: u pay more for the XT? lol
[15:12] <oimon> £40 it seems
[15:12] <oimon> can't find any other diff
[15:14] <ahayzen> oimon: the XT series is SATA 3 (6Gb/s)... is the non XT SATA2?
[15:14] <oimon> http://www.ebuyer.com/319641-barracuda-2tb-sata-3-5in-7200rpm-64mb-6gb-s-in-st2000dm001 and http://www.ebuyer.com/176584-seagate-2tb-barracuda-xt-hard-drive-3-5-sata-iii-7200rpm-64mb-st32000641as
[15:14] <ahayzen> oimon: seems that they are the same...
[15:15] <ahayzen> Seagate website
[15:15] <ahayzen> Capacity 2TB–3TB (XT) 250GB–3TB (non-XT)
[15:15] <ahayzen> Annual Failure Rate 0.34% (XT) <1% (non XT)
[15:16] <ahayzen> oimon: they are the only differences I can see
[15:17] <oimon> longer warranty?
[15:18] <oimon> it's weird.
[15:18] <ahayzen> oimon: probably
[15:18] <oimon> also, ebuyer are much cheaper than insight for these drives
[15:18] <oimon> ebuyer prices are really fluctuating tho
[15:18] <oimon> dell told me they couldn't supply 2tb drives for my system since there is a 60 day lead time
[15:19] <BarryK> Short supply of hard drives all over place due to the floods in thai land
[15:20] <BarryK> *thailand
[15:22] <oimon> yeah
[15:23] <Seeker`> MattJ: you're getting slow in your old age :O
[15:24] <MattJ> Seeker`, afraid so :/
[15:24] <Seeker`> :(
[15:44] <gordonjcp> is there a way to install Ubuntu from a running Ubuntu?
[15:45] <gordonjcp> ie. same idea as when you boot from a CD and click the installer
[15:56] <oimon> why would you want to do that?
[15:56] <AlanBell> so you want to run ubiquity from an installed ubuntu and have it overwrite itself?
[15:57] <oimon> (still doesn't answer why...but) you can't unmount system partitions that you are using
[15:58] <gordonjcp> no, install on a drive to put into another machine
[15:58] <gordonjcp> ie. I have a running laptop with Ubuntu, and a drive in an external caddy which I want to install Ubuntu on to then put into a desktop
[16:00] <oimon> ah that's slightly different
[16:01] <AlanBell> hmm, in theory you can run ubiquity from a running desktop, but it just crashes for me right now
[16:01] <popey> i have done an install from inside an install
[16:01] <popey> using chroot
[16:02] <popey> and/or debootstrap
[16:02] <shauno> I was about to say, debootstrap used to rock for that
[16:03] <AlanBell> then install ubuntu-desktop and it should haul in all the stuff
[16:03] <AlanBell> if you want all the stuff that is
[16:03] <gordonjcp> yeah, this is for a desktop
[16:03] <oimon> couldn't you use usb-creator and write the iso to the /dev/sdb instead?
[16:04] <gordonjcp> doesn't that just give me a bootable install disk on my drive?
[16:04] <AlanBell> probably involves a bit of grub and maybe fstab tinkering to get it to boot
[16:06] <oimon> can't you use reconstructor to customize the live cd for persistence mode
[16:07] <oimon> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/22145/how-to-create-your-own-customized-ubuntu-live-cd/
[16:08] <oimon> this would allow persistence mode and custom apps,
[16:08] <gordonjcp> oimon: I don't want a livecd though
[16:09] <gordonjcp> I just want to install a fresh install of Ubuntu, from a machine that is already working, onto a drive for a machine that is flaky as all hell about booting from USB
[16:10] <gordonjcp> but it's too late now anyway because I'm heading home in 20 minutes and it's going to take longer than that anyway
[16:10] <oimon> i had that issue the other day with a dell. i used a CD
[16:11] <gordonjcp> can't use a CD
[16:12] <gordonjcp> no way to create a CD, not sure if the target machine has any sort of CD drive
[16:16] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: one way to do it would be use virtualbox and set the external disk up as a raw disk, and boot a vm from an iso
[16:16] <oimon> or PXE boot
[16:17] <gordonjcp> yeah, I might do that
[16:17] <oimon> of course the easiest answer is to replace the disk in another PC and move it back after install
[16:18] <oimon> but PXE booting is useful to learn
[16:20] <gordonjcp> oimon: well that's what I'm trying to do
[16:21] <oimon> why not boot from usb then?
[16:21] <gordonjcp> because I don't want to interrupt other stuff I've got running
[16:21] <gordonjcp> and it seems inelegant
[16:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - we didn't make many calls on our company voip service during december. Our bill was £1.83 :-D
[16:31] <oimon> i prob use my work phone once a week
[16:31] <oimon> and my mobile even less
[16:32] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: that's a bit high, i think you should have words with AlanBell about his personal use of the company voip service..
[16:32] <christel> :s
[16:35]  * czajkowski tickles christel 
[16:36] <AlanBell> this is a real phone bill http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2011/december/2011110000259.pdf
[16:38] <oimon> wow
[16:38] <oimon> that's our tax bill down the drain
[16:40] <czajkowski> why on gods green earth would you need to spend £18,401.65
[16:40] <czajkowski> on a talking clock
[16:40] <gord> Great clock shortage of '09
[16:41] <christel> jesus that is a lot of calls
[16:41] <AlanBell> so you can be busy on the phone for the last 5 minutes until your shift ends
[16:41] <oimon> AlanBell: only a devious person would do that
[16:43] <DJones> Why would you spend ~£100K on directory enquiries...isn't it quicker/cheaper to look them up on the BT website
[16:44] <AlanBell> well I can understand that one to be honest
[16:44] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing from surrey
[16:44] <oimon> really? you can implement your own directory enquiries for less
[16:45] <DJones> I know it says that a large number of staff aren't office based
[16:45] <czajkowski> oimon: if you can I'm sure BT would like to know
[16:45] <czajkowski> and everyone else would to be cheaper than using it
[16:45] <tugrik> I presume its onsite officers checking the exact time for reports / witness statements / etc ?
[16:45] <AlanBell> oimon: ok, so have 4 staff in a calling pool in the internal telephone system doing directory enquiries for the force and you just spent £100,000
[16:46] <oimon> yep.
[16:46] <oimon> however they probably have a call centre performing similar services
[16:47] <tugrik> that's just the cost of the staff though, wouldn't access to the equivalent database cost more?
[16:47] <oimon> so no need to setup a new one. maybe employ only 2 extra staff. and train them to speak robot and cover the 1-2-3 calls too
[16:47] <oimon> you can buy disks from BT pretty cheap
[16:47] <tugrik> yah, but then you've got to set up the interface to them
[16:48] <tugrik> and you need more than four staff to cover illness and holiday leave, and shift patterns as it needs to be 24/7
[16:48] <oimon> it appears they haven't looked into it though
[16:48] <tugrik> and I ***presume*** you need the authority of the source of the time to be verified in some way to prevent prosecution lawyers questions the timing of events in court, whereas I presume the speaking clock is verified?
[16:49] <tugrik> I wouldn't expect so - I would think it would cost quite a lot just to look at the possibility of looking at setting it up ;)
[16:49] <oimon> digital watches are quite good at telling the time accurately
[16:50] <oimon> maybe one guy rang 123 and left the phone off the hook for a year
[16:50] <tugrik> "quite good" isn't good enough in court, I'd guess.  I'd check with a Met Police friend, but I always ask her about police matters ;)
[16:51] <oimon> half the work has been done by the FOI request
[16:52] <tugrik> be interesting if they can use that, or whether an investigation would require looking at the figures again
[16:58] <AlanBell> dunno if they use the speaking clock in interview rooms to get a timestamp on tape, that would kind of make sense
[16:59] <AlanBell> but if that was my data I would be correlating it against shift end times
[17:00] <oimon> i read that a 19year old girl posed as a boy during a 7 month relationship with 15 and 16year old girls....how?
[17:01] <oimon> it turns out they even knew her as a girl at the same time....weird.
[17:01] <gord> did you read this in the daily mail?
[17:02] <oimon> google news
[17:02] <oimon> even in the telegraph
[17:03] <oimon> if it happened on tv i wouldn't believe it
[17:06] <popey> https://twitter.com/#!/HantsPolice/status/159668981349888002
[17:06] <popey> *sigh*
[17:06] <popey> click the link
[17:07] <oimon> isn't t.co down for SOPA?
[17:08] <popey> no
[17:08] <popey> http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Internet/news/releases/Police+release+CCTV+images+of+people+sought+in+connection+with+theft+in+Fleet.htm
[17:08] <oimon> server toobusy
[18:00] <czajkowski> daubers: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-considering-broadcasting-charge-whether-you-have-a-tv-or-not-536421.html
[18:00] <Myrtti> the law for that passed in Finland
[18:00] <Myrtti> there was much rejoicing
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> Same in .nl -- it's part of normal taxes
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> also, you can become a member of broadcasting orgs (they're associations, legally)
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> and number-of-members is a factor in the determination for who gets the most tax money
[18:07] <s-fox> Goodbye.
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> bye s-
[19:30] <shauno> a bit weak that bbc news 24 haven't mentioned the wikipedia blackout, but keep repeating their thing about a town in the middle of nowhere turning their lights off so they can watch the rain better
[19:31] <brobostigon> shauno: they did mention it, while i was having lunch, wikuipedia and sopa.
[19:32] <shauno> hm.  I tuned in for the 6 o'clock news, and haven't heard anything yet
[19:32] <brobostigon> ok, but it has been mentioned and reported on, it was just after pmq's.
[19:33] <gordonjcp> BBC Radio Scotland mentioned it a couple of times
[19:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> It was discussed several times on Today BBC R4 this morning.
[20:07] <brobostigon> crime spree in dulverton with lights off, hmm, interesting rumour.
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/535/Crime+Wave.html
[20:11] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is a light off, in a town, in order to have no light contamination for star viewing. an  experiment.
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah, sounds cool
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> we need that here :(
[20:11] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: havew a LOOK ON BBC2.
[20:11]  * MartijnVdS switches channels
[20:11] <brobostigon> sorry.
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> BBC HD too \o/
[20:12] <brobostigon> bbcstargazing. :)
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you love that, http://www.youtube.com/deepskyvideos
[20:14] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me look.
[20:15] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: physics is one of my hobbies.
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not many videos yet, but they're going to do the entire Messier catalog
[20:15] <brobostigon> interesting.
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and it's by the same people as youtube.com/sixtysymbols (the physics channel)
[20:15]  * brobostigon subscribes.
[20:15] <brobostigon> ah
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also check his other channels (periodicvideos, numberphile, and a few others)
[20:16] <brobostigon> ok,
[20:16] <brobostigon> thank you.
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: here's the list:  http://www.bradyharan.com/
[21:28] <swat_> evening all
[21:43] <popey> lo
[21:43] <brobostigon> o/
[23:15] <awilkins> It's Wednesday, Wednesday, gotta get down on Wednesday, everybody's working 'til the weekend, weekend.
[23:21] <zleap> well at least the SOPA issue made the news
[23:21] <zleap> i am surprised there is nothing on the google site
[23:21] <awilkins> there was a Doodle on for it in the states
[23:22] <directhex> but not on google.com/ncr, oddly enough
[23:22] <directhex> usually that shows us-only doodles
[23:22] <awilkins> And they have a page about it. I think they should have made it global.
[23:23] <awilkins> Just because it's a US policy, it still affects the rest of us.
[23:23] <zleap> yeah
[23:24] <zleap> i think murdoch making comments about all this and attacking google is a laugh,  his integrity became zero with the newscorp hacking scandel
[23:24] <zleap> scandal
[23:24] <zleap> its like bill gates or steve balmer accusingsomeone of having a monopoly
[23:26] <awilkins> Old media hate new media. The Metro was snarky about Wikipedia being full of false biographies and dogy facts.
[23:26] <popey> yet the metro quotes wikipedia as fact regularly
[23:26] <zleap> yeahm,  thing is with wikipedia is that errors can be corrected,  print media can't be corrected until the next issue
[23:27]  * zleap has just made website back to normal ready for upload on Thursday
[23:32] <ali1234> is it just me or is rupert murdoch's twitter sound a bit like the ramblings of a crazy person?
[23:36] <directhex> AlanBell, it *is*
[23:36] <directhex> erm, ali1234
[23:36] <AlanBell> o/
[23:37] <ali1234> each tweet reads like a cryptic crossword clue
[23:37] <ali1234> "Brilliant, visionary but just too much baggage!  And erratic."
[23:37] <ali1234> 22 across, 6 letters