[00:49] noooooooo [00:49] soundblaster doesnt work in kubuntu [00:50] however my USB headphones do [00:50] would've expected that to be the inverse [00:56] Creative is busily shooting themselves in the foot [00:56] heh, not what they used to be eh? [00:57] I actally threw out a SB card [00:57] don't remember what they did to piss me off [00:57] I loved my AWE64 card, though [00:58] and the Gravis Ultrasound [00:58] funny that the capabilities of those cards have been far surpassed by single-chip cards w/ software [00:59] This SB is about 4 years oldish [01:03] lol [01:03] ATI proprietary driver broke dual heads [01:03] Whatever the default is > ATI [01:04] lol [01:04] nice [01:32] and now.. [01:32] soundblaster works.. [01:33] I dont know whether or not I should be a fan of randomly working things [01:34] tjagoda: They'll do in a pinch [01:43] Oh no [01:43] sound works out of java [01:43] but no where lese [01:43] else* [01:43] thats what it is [01:43] hm [01:44] java is all you need [01:46] Run everything in java? [01:48] right [01:48] django run on java. you're all set [02:06] They say I can get it to work if I recompile the kernel [02:06] But its probably easier to just buy a new sound card [02:08] tjagoda: Are you sure your computer doesn't have one built in? [02:09] .....good point [02:09] or is there some special reason for having the soundblaster [02:09] * tjagoda crawls under the desk [02:12] hm. [02:12] That doesn't work either. [02:12] * tjagoda tries more options [02:13] Have you tried turning it off and on again? ;) [02:14] This 4.1 setup is odd [02:14] in that it plugs into the sub, and then theres a sub 1/8" and a single 1/8" for all 4 [02:14] so I dont know if I just have it in the wrong slot now [02:19] Well, are the speakers set up for 4.1, or does it have an amplifier in the sub for all four? [02:20] Generally the setups I've seen have a 1/8" for the "stereo", one for the back speakers, and one for the sub [02:20] then one for line-in, and a microphone [02:21] And mine has center and bass on one 1/8, and a separate one for side speakers. [02:23] VICTORY [02:24] DAMN YOUR NUMEROUS LOCATIONS OF SOUND SETTINGS [02:24] DAMN THEM STRAIGHT TO HELL [02:52] now [02:52] I just have to make audio work in firefox [02:57] flash* [02:57] not firefox [03:01] Probably because I'm piping audio around PulseAudio instead of through it === DBO is now known as jsmith === jsmith is now known as DBO [11:48] Happy blackout day [12:02] brrrrrrrrrrrrr [12:06] I love the spam comments [12:07] on OMC: "The next time I read a blog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as much as this one. I mean, I know it was my choice to read, but I actually thought youd have something interesting to say. All I hear is a bunch of whining about something that you could fix if you werent too busy looking for attention." [12:07] I guess they thought that I would get so angry that I'd approve it without realizing it's SPAM [12:08] yay for ranting first thing in the morning! [12:08] http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/olech/is_django_considered_pythonic_now/ [12:09] brousch...get online so I can point out what retarded folks you're hanging with in those django circles? grrrrr [12:09] good grief...the stupid it burns! http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/olech/is_django_considered_pythonic_now/c3i8y1j [12:10] Well, and note that mcdonc is quick to point out that Pyramid isn't like tat [12:11] I just love the whole "I once looked at docs 4yrs ago and clearly I'm qualified to mention how much this thing sucks..." [12:11] "oh...the docs got better? cool...bet the tool still sucks though..." [12:11] Right, because Pyramid was around 4 years ago. [12:11] well in this second link it was a knock on sqlalchemy [12:11] "Pyramid is still mired in itself in many ways, and it all comes slopping out reading the documentation. It's almost as bad as the SQLAlchemy documentation. " [12:12] its single-file hello world is two lines longer than a Flask helloworld [12:12] Well, then Pyramid really sucks [12:12] I know some brilliant people in the django world...but I swear 80% of that community are PHP rejects [12:12] Nah, it works like this: [12:12] see, I need to cool off from the gym before I read the internets [12:13] blood is too warm and fired up fresh from the gym... [12:13] PHP -> "I want to try new hotness" -> Rails -> "Rails is SLOW. I want to try new hotness. What's closest to Rails?" -> Django [12:14] bah, slow doesn't matter for 70% of use cases and even then it's usually more your code vs the framework [12:14] So, they're PHP rejects by way of Rails rejects. [12:14] anything can serve out 50req/s [12:14] and most of them aren't running 50r/s [12:14] heh [12:15] http://theoatmeal.com/sopa [12:15] http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/olech/is_django_considered_pythonic_now/c3id6sa [12:16] This wins one internet [12:16] yea, that's the one I got started with [12:16] Chris and Mike comparing notes on how easy it is to get sucked into responding to the internet [12:54] there's brousch [12:54] brousch: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/olech/is_django_considered_pythonic_now/ [12:54] enjoy [12:54] ut oh [12:57] haters gonna hate! [13:03] https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat humor for the day [13:04] felling better now [13:06] i love this new camera. these kids were flying by but there's no motion blur https://picasaweb.google.com/102663141609195877664/SleddingAtTheShamuses#5698820742189871138 [13:07] awesome [13:09] i like how you get real python devs on reddit, like mcdonc commenting on that post [13:09] yea, and the sqlalchemy author Mike is zzzeek [13:10] he replied as well when one django nutcase knocked the SA docs [13:10] ubernostrum is a django dev. he was in that panel video dissing launchpad [13:10] well, the video in which launchpad was dissed [13:11] Morning [13:11] ranty morning [13:12] wow, good post from mcdonc [13:13] that's chris for you. The man is super genius and more patient than I ever hope to be with internet morons [13:13] hell, I'd use pyramid just because his brain is in there somewhere [13:14] heh [13:14] have you tried it in python3 yet? [13:15] no, I've not run any py3 yet [13:15] but I know the alpha right now works [13:15] slacker [13:15] webob is ported [13:15] I feel so left out, not having any opinion about Pyramid, django, et al [13:15] Wolfger: just join my side :) [13:15] Wolfger: perl sucks [13:15] reddit is 502'ing, too [13:15] I know every community has morons, but nothing like reddit to bring out the drudge of the django community [13:15] brousch: You've come to Kubuntu; your first Perl script can't be far behind [13:16] i could see kubuntu leadins to pyqt/pyside, but perl? [13:17] brousch: I mean, thanks for trying to include me in the ranty holy war goodness, but I just can't seem to get up in arms about anything today. Give me a couple hours. :-) [13:17] rick_h: When in doubt, I normally do take your side for safety's sake. :-) [13:17] it's days like this that make me realize we need more strict seatbelt laws [13:18] brousch: Oooooooh! You suck! [13:18] i don't think i'm a django advocate. i'm mostly just happy i could do some things in someone else's django code [13:20] and now reddit is blacked out and I can't read the links :-p [13:21] yikes, good thing i loaded earlier [13:21] well, I have to say I applaud Reddit for a real blackout, and not the lip service Google is paying to the blackout [13:22] a google blackout would bring about the apocalypse [13:22] or AWS [13:23] A Google blackout would wake up some legislators [13:24] Google should just give a page stating "Sometimes Google links to sites that include material that may or may not infringe copyright. Under SOPA, Google could be censored out of existence for this. This is what a world without Google looks like." [13:25] google should black out half of the search results at random [13:25] That would work too [13:28] I wonder if the Reddit blackout will cause an increase in workplace productivity for some companies... [13:37] wow, zinger [13:38] "mcdonc Got it. Not cool enough.Like choosing an Apple product over something less chic, it's completely reasonable to choose a web framework based on what you believe that choice says about you to other people. Or your admiration of its charismatic spokesperson. Or, at very least, when you do choose for these sorts of reasons, you'll definitely wind up using the web framework you deserve." [13:39] :) [13:39] everyone reaches their limits [13:39] and the damn thing is that it's so true [13:39] the cool kids use rails [13:39] how many people say they don't want a thinkpad because it's "no pretty" yet get sad when their keyboards suck, hinges on the laptop won't hold over time, etc [13:40] I "didn't want" a thinkpad because it was too expensive :-p [13:41] yea, but I think we've all suggested an option only to get rejected because it lacked the 'cool' even though it might perform better [13:41] i met a young guy monday night who said he didn't like rails and didn't like django so he was using twisted [13:41] my subaru, when I got out of a snow storm another guy once said "I wanted to get a subaru, but my wife said it was too ugly" [13:41] i'm trying to adopt him [13:41] so my response was "Have fun shoveling while I'm getting home..." [13:42] nice [13:42] brousch: ouch, that's on crazy dude :) [13:42] brousch: at least go tornado and belt on some good bits [13:42] i pointed him at other frameworks too [13:42] * rick_h says that as tons of LP stuff uses twisted all over [13:42] it does? [13:42] yea [13:42] we're big twisted users [13:42] all the build stuff uses twisted (ppas) [13:43] i thought it was zope [13:43] it is ;) [13:44] twisted zope? [13:44] yea, twisted used to make zope async [13:45] zope is really just a library (series of libraries I guess) [13:45] twisted is used up front I think to make it all work async for better perf [13:45] who created this monstrosity? [13:45] heh, most of them are gone [13:45] moved on to other things [13:46] You heard it hear, ladies and gents: rick_h says Twisted and Zope are what all the cool Canonikids use! [13:46] heh not really. All the ubuntu one stuff is new and isn't zope. [13:46] s/hear/here/ bleh [13:46] and most of the small stuff is django [13:47] irrelevant. I just wanted to start coining the term "all the cool Canonikids" [13:48] ACtually, a Google blackout would bring a lawsuit [13:48] I can't see a publicly traded company like Google blacking out today [13:48] reddit.com, yes. It'll hurt a little revenue [13:49] Google blacking out would cause a shareholder lawsuit for destroying value or something of that nature [13:49] very fine line they have to toe. [13:51] the problems of being publicly traded [13:51] Also, just for the record, UML is the devil's work. [13:51] (just opened up a book, and saw a UML diagram and threw up in my mouth a bit) [13:53] LOL. I've never seen UML, but I heard about it and thought it was a great idea. [13:53] Disclaimer: I am not at all a db guy [13:53] bah, anything that 'descibes' your code that you have to keep in sync is evil [13:53] describes that is [13:54] It's like a flowchart [13:54] When the flowchart becomes more important to get right than the actual code, there's a problem [13:54] ... [13:54] right [13:54] UML is the same way. "OMG! That's not a proper UML diagram" [13:54] i thought you could generate all of your code from UML if you did your UML right [13:55] code generation is evil... [13:55] if your flowchart is wrong, your code can't be right. Unless you are ignoring your flowchart [13:55] "You used a cylinder to represent something other than a database. I can't look at this anymore." [13:55] rick_h++ [13:55] brousch: Yeah, and you can generate all of your code using reflection too. :) [13:56] I've seen generated Java code, with thousands upon thousands of getters and setters [13:56] if I had to actually use that code, I'd shoot myself [13:57] Wolfger: The flowchart is an approximation tool [13:57] I have never seen a flowchart that perfectly matches the logic of actual code. [13:57] snap-l: right. It's a good way to lay out what you want the code to do, in broad strokes [13:57] tests and use cases...flowcharts be damned [13:58] Under no circumstances should a flow chart attempt to *be* code. [13:58] brousch: for your django friends. Seems cool http://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/some-quick-django-optimisation-lessons/ [13:59] rick_h: Some people use a wacom, others use pencils [13:59] but yes, test cases = a+ [13:59] snap-l: sure...write your use cases on note cards, posters, wikis, I don't care how you write them [13:59] i don't think i have any django friends who are using it enough to worry about optimisation [13:59] but write them [14:00] rick_h: I think you missed my point. for some folks, the flowchart is their use case. ;) [14:00] brousch: guess less about optimization and more about learning "good practices" [14:00] snap-l: and to that I say BS. I've never seen a flow chart (of code as we were discussing) as a use case visualization [14:01] i've decided to give pyramid in pyhon 3.2 a try today [14:01] I saw test cases once. Back in 2001 when I first started working here. I think the person who wrote them was an idiot. I haven't seen any written test cases at Chrysler since 2001... [14:02] in fact, that was an outside company that started our code that asked us to give them test cases... [14:08] Wolfger: Yeah, Chrysler had bad test / use cases [14:08] they were printed out, and were essentially meaningless [14:09] They were more about giving a warm-fuzzy feeling to the Chrysler / Outsourcing measures [14:09] * snap-l wonders if Chrysler ever adopted CI. ;) [14:13] http://www.sjgames.com/blackout/ <- I really like the way they did this [14:14] Click on the "continue to the site" [14:17] heh [14:19] Yeah, I should've known better than to try... [14:19] "games" verboten [14:21] Wolfger: Yeah, sorry. [14:21] essentially it says "No, really, we're blacked out" [14:24] :-) [14:25] Anyone use webfaction? [14:25] brousch: No, not currently. [14:25] Huh. Somebody in GR wants to hire me? (or at least spam me for an interview) [14:26] who is it? [14:26] or "the Greater Grand Rapids, Michigan area". Lacks Enterprises [14:27] my first recruiter via LinkedIn [14:27] Must be someone doing a cattle call in MI [14:28] is it to redo their website? because dayam, it needs help [14:32] Heh [14:32] Automation programmer (i.e. PLC) [14:34] is that what you do? [14:35] That's what my background is. I don't do much actual PLC programming anymore. [14:44] Today I'm using Wireshark to try and figure out why my OPC servers are alternately succeeding and failing to talk to a specific Mitsubishi device [14:44] I haven't used Wireshark in probably years. I miss it. [14:46] Anybody familiar with UDP protocol enough to know what trouble looks like? Or normal? [14:50] Not offhand [14:51] Also, is it doing everything in the clear or using ssl? [14:56] LOL [14:57] Wolfger: Well, had to ask. ;) [14:57] I can't imagine plant floor automation using SSL [14:57] I'm surprised they're using UDP [14:57] We have known issues with TCP on the Mitsubishi controllers [14:57] TCP I can understand [14:58] but UDP (to my mind) is the "I don't care if you get this" protocol [14:58] TCP is the "I don't care what order you get this" protocol. [14:58] so we use UDP to avoid the known issues (apparently in favor of unknown ones) [14:58] and for automation, order counts [15:04] snmp is ping, isn't it? [15:06] because, you know, wikipedia is blacked out :-p [15:09] in which case, I'd like to know why my target device is not replying to pings [15:09] does it understand what a ping is? [15:10] Well, I've pinged it before and gotten replies... [15:10] does it have a firewall? [15:10] don't think so, but not positive [15:20] Interesting. http://www.ilient.com/Sysforums/posts/list/1814.page [15:21] Some unknown device is hitting my device with a bunch of different community strings. [15:22] Is it trying to communicate with a mothership for config settings? [15:24] Oh hell no, Random Mix just picked one of JoDee's discs to play [15:24] Funny Girl (1968 film cast) [15:25] Not that I don't mind a little Barbara Streisand and Omar Sharif every now and again, but not a whole album [15:25] and not now [15:26] jodee's CD. suuuuuure it is [15:26] brousch: you caught me [15:26] I'm big into show tunes [15:27] (Note: No) [15:28] and jazz hands. you love jazz hands [15:44] brousch: I always see snap-l practicing his jazz hands when he thinks nobody's looking [15:52] wtf is "eDonkey" protocol? (yes, I'm going to ask Google...) [15:52] that's filesharing, isn't it? [15:56] It was an early filesharing thing, iirc [15:58] thought it sounded familiar, in an absurd way [15:58] My name often has that connotation. [15:58] familiarly absurd or "edonkey"? [15:59] snap-l: this just came across the #grlug irc channel: http://www.logilab.org/blogentry/6883 [16:02] If you must [16:03] but that's generating it after-the-fact, probably to please the teacher / make the auditor happy [16:03] right [16:03] I see no reason to use it for design [16:05] but if you need it, there it is [16:06] also, ipdb makes my heart leap for joy [16:08] Also, do not join ##sopa, if you value your sanity [16:08] internet pinball machine database? [16:08] ipython's take on pdb [16:09] though I <3 pinball [16:09] wish I had the room for a few machines [16:19] snap-l: brousch couldn't that be used to help figure out a new codebase you are unfamiliar with? [16:20] greg-g: interesting idea [16:22] greg-g: I think that's the initial idea [16:22] but as with all academic ideas, it gets perverted in the business realm [16:23] well, ef business [16:23] Na, let's just run education like a business [16:23] what's the worst that could happen [16:23] grumble [16:23] Oh, wait, we're already trying that [16:24] ;) [16:35] Supposed to get like 7 inches of snow on Friday night [16:35] raise your hand if you do not believe. [16:36] I won't be getting that snow, I know that for sure [16:36] * greg-g will be in Dallas [16:36] also, anyone else use Banshee for podcasts? http://askubuntu.com/questions/96430/what-happened-to-the-downloaded-filter-for-podcasts-in-banshee [16:36] greg-g: I could never get Banshee's podcasting to work well [16:37] felt clunky [16:37] At least in later versions it felt clunky [16:37] at some point I'll re-start my python podcatcher. [16:39] google listen [16:42] http://www.livestream.com/AWSCloudEvent for those curious on amazon's new db product [16:43] nope, moved to pocket casts on my phone for podcasts [16:43] greg-g: ^ sorry [16:43] yay! onto the final part of the pandora's star book [16:43] talk about a month-long book [16:45] bah, all you hipster I-listen-to-my-podcasts-on-my-phone people [16:47] greg-g: we have to justify the computers on our hips somehow ;) [16:48] I've been using Miro for the video podcasts [16:48] and the listening to the audio ones via the Squeezebox [16:49] though the podcast fetchers for the Squeezebox suck [16:49] They don't download, as much as stream [16:49] yea, my grace one is like that [16:50] and they don't remember place and such [16:50] rick_h: Yeah, they're afterthoughts [16:50] why I use the phone, nothing else syncs right [16:50] best to keep them all on one place [16:50] I wish we could get this stuff straight so that everything had whisper-sync like ability [16:50] That's one thing that Apple got right with iTunes is the podcasts [16:50] a nice standard would be cool [16:51] rick_h: amen [16:51] Adn because we want one, it'll never happen. P) [16:52] yea, there's no $$ in portability [17:07] ok, I laughed http://gizmodo.com/5877143/riaa-reminds-us-why-we-hate-them-with-obnoxious-smartass-tweet [17:11] hah [17:21] can't decide if my devices are screwy, my network is screwy, or Wireshark is bugged. [17:21] D. All of the above [17:23] I've seen an eDonkey query and reply that looks exactly like a UDP query and reply, an MSMMS (microsoft multimedia server) reply to a UDP query, and now a huge batch of query/response pairs that show as H.248 (Megaco) [17:23] but they all appear to be the same data in the same format [17:26] Wolfger: getting haxored? [17:26] greg-g: no, trying to troubleshoot work comm issues [17:27] wireshark is bugged, at least on th H.248's. What a pain. [17:28] "I would troubleshoot this issue for you, sir, but my troubleshooting tools need troubleshooting." [17:28] jrwren: ping [17:54] This is wild, the number of different protocols these UDP packets show up as, and I can't figure what makes Wireshark determine one packet is one and the next packet is some other. [17:55] are you usre they're using UDP? [17:56] And not some funky-proprietary UDP-alike? [18:02] rick_h: How's that blood pressure? ;) [18:02] http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/129859/how-is-python-used-in-the-real-world <- Consider this a stress test. [18:04] I dont know much python [18:04] and even I lol there [18:05] The first bit about Python not being used in shipping software is laughable [18:05] Although judging from what rick_h says, the answer to "How is python used in the real world?" is just "Poorly." =( [18:09] hah, calming down snap-l since I'm actually writing cool code atm [18:09] now let's see this link of yours and how it can ruin my day next :P [18:11] tjagoda: you mistake me...the qustion needs to be "how is programming used in the real world?" and then you've got my response [18:11] as for python in the real world, just a matter of looking in the right places [18:11] I saw a truck today that had a big decal saying how they removed bats [18:11] that's it [18:11] not pest control, not moles, etc [18:11] just bats [18:12] now I never would have known someone can make a living on just bats unless I looked for a bat specialist [18:12] python jobs don't show up on monster and dice, they're on the SO job board, python job list, pycon sponsorship info, and linkedin python group [18:12] go look there, and he'd see a different world [18:14] Python jobs: Only available on the darknet. [18:15] Well, it's laughable, really. [18:15] The one about Python not being in shipping code, and used primarily for web development really stung me [18:16] http://programmers.stackexchange.com/a/129870/9368 [18:17] http://programmers.stackexchange.com/users/3965/karl-bielefeldt [18:17] Feel comfort knowing that the man who wrote that answer programmed the network code for Apache attack Helicopters. [18:18] tjagoda: I'd trust a C developer to not understand Python [18:19] However, I'd also trust them to not make a half-assed statement when not understanding Python. ;) [18:19] * snap-l notes, though, that it hasn't stopped him from making half-assed statements about other languages. ;) [18:29] Considering applying for this: [18:29] https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=404 [18:29] Good idea/bad idea? [18:30] tjagoda: If it's something you're interested in, I'd say go for it. [18:31] Poking through launchpad to see how much of it is grind work and how much of it is analysis [18:35] Support combined with continuous improvement efforts would be interesting and motivating [18:35] The inverse of ticket culling, less so [18:37] tjagoda: Job code 404? I don't think this job really exists... [18:37] I saw and chuckled at that as well [18:38] If I applied and did not get it, I would be applicant status 401 [18:38] "friendly people-person"... *sigh*. I'll never get a job with Canonical :-p [18:39] then again, it's online and not over the phone, so I might be able to fake it... [18:42] tjagoda: it's ticket/mailing list/etc work with people [18:42] I can show you some of it if you're interested [18:43] right now I'm doing some of the work they want to bring someone in to take over to leave us more coding time [18:45] tjagoda: if you are interested jump in there in a hurry. I know they're going through applicants now [18:47] tjagoda: doit [18:47] you can point out all of rick_h's bugs [18:48] LOL [18:48] I think I will apply for it. I probably will not get it based on my resume, but it sounds like a sweet gig. [18:49] Also, I'll be surprised if it pays well enough for me to quit my current job, but work from home is a very nice perk. [18:54] I shared that concern as well [18:55] well you never know [18:56] bah, neither of you have kids. you can live on $500/mo [18:56] Wolfger: My SF.net gig was a longshot [18:57] and it managed to pan out [18:57] I dislike the feeling of cardboard beds. =( [18:57] which is why I'll never tell anyone to never apply for something they truly want [18:59] each canonical employee is contractually bound to house and feed any other canonical employee within a 100 mile radius. so, you could just go live with rick_h [19:00] umm...heh [19:00] I think smoser is closer [19:01] I think they still have jcastro's old address on file, so they'll make you go live with him. ;) [19:01] brousch: you are funny [19:01] expenses grow to meet the paycheck [19:02]