| len | Ok Astraljava, That is useful... I take it then that there are 4 work flows or four sections of work flows? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| len | For example in the audio section There are over 20 ways of using things... seems like a lot of metas to me. | 00:02 |
| len | May be just one that covers it all. Then a menu that shows whats needed for each? | 00:03 |
| astraljava | len: My understanding is that all the different work flows are just arguments for having some applications installed through various tasks in the installer. | 00:22 |
| len | astraljava: Ok, so four sets of packages, lots of uses within each install. | 00:45 |
| len | I'm thinking I need to test more of that stuff... Like can the job actually be done with only the software provided. | 00:46 |
| len | This would mean only installing one of the four sets and trying out each task... | 00:47 |
| astraljava | len: Would be good if you could test the thought behind the task, yes. | 00:50 |
| len | astraljava: Waiting for all the software to be included. Lots of stuff missing still. | 00:51 |
| astraljava | Yep. I'm turning in, it's close to 3 am. here. Thanks for testing the stuff! Have a good night! | 00:52 |
| ScottL | did an interesting experiment tonight to check a few things for updating the seeds | 04:06 |
| ScottL | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox/#package_size_testing | 04:06 |
| ScottL | mainly i wanted to compare the installation impact of a few different packages (file managers, video editors, disc burners) | 04:07 |
| ScottL | for example, brasero appears to be a very, very small installation compared to k3b | 04:07 |
| ScottL | and since brasero is basically installed when nautilus is installed we would actually get brasero "for free" | 04:08 |
| len | ScottL: so do we have a list of packages yet? I'm thinking in terms of file mangers and editors etc. | 04:49 |
| len | With where Gnome is going (3ish) is nautilus going to become incompatible with what we are doing ? | 04:50 |
| len | I'm thinking one of the big things with unity is this whole full screen everything and hearing gnome 3 is going to be similar. will the changes in the libs force some of the gnome applications to think that way too? | 04:53 |
| ailo | gnome3 is basically the same as gnome2, except it has a different panel | 04:55 |
| ailo | And some new stuff | 04:55 |
| len | Ok, how is different? | 04:55 |
| ailo | The panel is replaced by what is called gnome-shell | 04:56 |
| ailo | GTK has been updated | 04:56 |
| ailo | That's about it | 04:56 |
| ailo | In short | 04:56 |
| ailo | Unity resembles Gnome3, but uses a global menu. Unity is based on Gnome | 04:59 |
| ailo | Unity uses Compiz, while Gnome3 uses Mutter | 05:00 |
| ailo | Of no relevance to XFCE though | 05:00 |
| len | No body likes changing I remember wondering why anyone would need anything more than fvwm too. | 05:00 |
| ailo | I use Gnome3 and I'm pretty happy about it. | 05:00 |
| ailo | Very simple and fast | 05:01 |
| len | I haven't tried that.... but I have tried unity (12.04 alpha) and it seemed to think nobody could use more than one app at a time. | 05:02 |
| len | Is there a flavour of ubuntu using G3? | 05:02 |
| ailo | I don't agree on the notion that Unity or Gnome3 are designed for one application in a time | 05:02 |
| len | Or is there a meta I could try? | 05:02 |
| ailo | If you have Ubuntu 11.10 or later installed, just install gnome-shell. | 05:03 |
| len | G3 I don't know, but unity seems to expect full screen everything. | 05:03 |
| ailo | Why do you say that? | 05:03 |
| len | I will try gnome-shell on top of a 12.04 ... anything I have tried with unity open fullscreen. | 05:04 |
| ailo | The windows work just as before. There has been no change there | 05:05 |
| ailo | Gnome3 does not have all three window control buttons visible by default though | 05:05 |
| len | I had ubuntu desktop on my netbook and when I upgraded to 11.10 I couldn't get the windows not to open full screen... ended up starting over with xubuntu. | 05:06 |
| ailo | As far as I know, there's no fullscreen mode for normal application | 05:06 |
| ailo | You mean maximized, right? | 05:06 |
| len | The ubuntu desktop alpha 12.04 I tried was flakey... but so was US at the time. Yeah maximised. | 05:07 |
| len | It uses all my screen :-P | 05:07 |
| ailo | On Unity, all of the apps have a minimize button | 05:07 |
| ailo | And unmaximize | 05:07 |
| ailo | On Gnome3 those do not appear by default, but if you get into how Gnome3 works, you'll see why you might not need them | 05:08 |
| ailo | You can use Gnome3 the old way, or in a new way | 05:08 |
| len | Maybe they have fixed it, but it is a pain to have to unmaximise things every time I start them, it would be nice if they started the same as I left them. | 05:09 |
| ailo | That is how I remember it to be | 05:09 |
| ailo | I don't use Unity myself though. Only Gnome3 | 05:09 |
| ailo | Gnome3 still has the classic desktop as well, which looks like gnome2 | 05:10 |
| len | My Yf would probably like unity though as she maxs everything. So I can't say unity is bad... just not for me. They may be right that for most people that is the way to go. | 05:10 |
| ailo | I don't agree on many of the things you say about Unity. It is just like gnome2, but with a different panel | 05:11 |
| ailo | And with additional functionality | 05:11 |
| ailo | I think there has been a false idea about what it is from the start | 05:12 |
| len | I may have picked poor times to try it out. | 05:12 |
| ailo | My biggest concern was how stable Unity and Gnome3 would be, since they require graphic card acceleration in default mode. And just generally, how buggy they would be | 05:13 |
| ailo | 12.04 seems to be ok for me | 05:14 |
| len | I was quite frustrated with it when I tried to use it for a week or so. I will keep trying it out though. It is nice having spare drives to run stuff on. I have gotten used to installing something different just to try. | 05:14 |
| ailo | I think the idea about both Unity and Gnome3 is that they would work on any screen device | 05:15 |
| ailo | Desktop/netbook/smartphone/TV | 05:15 |
| ailo | But so far, the old functionality is still there for desktops | 05:16 |
| len | It will be interesting to see what apps we get for US anyway... | 05:18 |
| len | I have to go for a bit. | 05:18 |
| astraljava | vaev: Would you mind joining #ubuntu-studio-dev | 11:47 |
| astraljava | sorry | 11:47 |
| astraljava | #ubuntu-studio-devel channel | 11:47 |
| astraljava | That's where the majority of the development happens. | 11:47 |
| astraljava | Crap. | 12:05 |
| * astraljava is really, really stupid today. Much more than normally. | 12:05 | |
| vaev | hello. I was asked to come here, interested in participating | 12:08 |
| * astraljava wishes vaev warmly welcome | 12:09 | |
| vaev | I'm not an expert in packaging, but feel like I can contribute in bug squashing, testing and xfce issues since that's the DE I've used for a long time | 12:09 |
| astraljava | jussi: From your email on May 8th, 2010, you proposed to move the channels to the naming convention of #ubuntu-studio*, but apparently it still hasn't realized. Why is that? (besides the fact that you're a lazy b***ard) | 12:13 |
| astraljava | vaev: Ahh... sorry, only Scott and Luke are admins of that team. They'll get around to your membership at some point. | 12:27 |
| scott-work | astraljava: do you mind if i query cjwatson for additional information about the live-dvd? | 13:17 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Not by any means. | 13:25 |
| scott-work | i was thinking about this while i was getting up and ready for work this morning | 13:28 |
| scott-work | it seems that colin would expect we would not want some functionality available under a live-dvd use case | 13:28 |
| scott-work | and i can't fanthom what he might be thinking | 13:28 |
| scott-work | is he worried that we might not want to actually record music, ala jack/ardour? | 13:29 |
| scott-work | colin _is_ a very smart person, is he thinking of something we aren't? | 13:29 |
| * scott-work usually finds that this is the case when interacting with such persons as colin or persia | 13:29 | |
| astraljava | scott-work: You can't say that. Either it's 'Colin and Emmet', or 'cjwatson and persia'. :D | 13:36 |
| scott-work | hehehe, true, true! | 13:36 |
| knome | yes! | 13:37 |
| knome | damn you | 13:37 |
| knome | :) | 13:37 |
| astraljava | It's the precise dev cycle, try to act accordingly, dangit! | 13:39 |
| knome | X) | 13:40 |
| scott-work | REVU is back up! yay :) | 14:05 |
| astraljava | Nice. | 14:06 |
| scott-work | i'm tempted to leave work, RIGHT NOW, to go home and get the kernel upload :P | 14:06 |
| * astraljava sends evil thought-waves towards northern Texas | 14:07 | |
| scott-work | now i also wish i had an ssh tunnel set up to my computer at home :( | 14:08 |
| scott-work | lol astraljava | 14:08 |
| scott-work | astraljava: have you read any of my conversation with cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel? | 14:13 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Not yet, but I will. On another note, do we have anything important for today's QA meeting? | 14:16 |
| scott-work | astraljava: we have a QA meeting today? i can't think of anything directly | 14:17 |
| scott-work | wrt seeds, i think the confusion is a matter of perspective | 14:18 |
| astraljava | scott-work: I just happened to stumble upon said meeting last week, and they had our derivate mentioned. So I gave a short and meaningless excuse for our existence, and promised to pay more attention in the future. :) | 14:18 |
| scott-work | i had been thinking of what should be excluded from the installed system, but rather we should think of the live environment first and then consider what should be excluded from _it_ to install onto the computer | 14:19 |
| scott-work | astraljava: lol...good job, man! | 14:19 |
| astraljava | scott-work: I agree on that. So we talk about it in the meeting, yes? Shall I add it on the agenda? | 14:20 |
| scott-work | astraljava: you mean the live-dvd issue for the ubuntu studio contributor meeting? | 15:20 |
| astraljava | scott-work: I mean the discussion about what we include in the live session, and how it (if in any meaningful way) differs from the installed product. | 15:27 |
| scott-work | astraljava: colin's talking about not including boot loader, ubiquity, and language packs....as these all seem very, very practically considerations i'm not sure we need to discuss it in the meeting | 15:30 |
| scott-work | but let's wait until colin responds back to my last question (do you need more from me?) before we make a final decision | 15:30 |
| astraljava | scott-work: ACK | 15:31 |
| scott-work_ | astraljava: i think i satisfied cjwaton :) | 15:53 |
| astraljava | Oh ok, nice. | 15:54 |
| jussi | astraljava: its the latter... sadly :P | 15:59 |
| astraljava | Anyone surprised, please raise a hand now. | 16:00 |
| astraljava | ... | 16:00 |
| astraljava | ... | 16:00 |
| astraljava | ... | 16:00 |
| * jussi slaps astraljava | 16:00 | |
| astraljava | Hey! You have your target practice at home now! | 16:01 |
| jussi | ahh shaddup, Im tired | 16:01 |
| astraljava | Not from me you aren't. We haven't seen in so many days now. | 16:01 |
| astraljava | of me* | 16:01 |
| jussi | astraljava: yeah, get your lazy butt over here :P | 16:08 |
| astraljava | Not inclined to cycle 20 miles in that weather, thanks. Maybe next week. *grin* | 16:11 |
| holstein | interesting wallpaper pack on the ML | 17:23 |
| holstein | i think the one with the guitar cable is not awful | 17:23 |
| holstein | might look nice and minimal with XFCE | 17:23 |
| holstein | i think i like the other ones that were submited more though | 17:24 |
| scott-work_ | is it a new email on the ML? | 17:41 |
| astraljava | scott-work_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2012-January/003807.html | 17:42 |
| scott-work | wrt wallpapers; i just want a very simplistic background that can be used in a unified manner across the plymouth theme, the lightdm background, and the desktop wallpaper | 18:27 |
| scott-work | i have tried pulling involvement from the ML and from even the -artwork IRC channel, ML, and specific individuals with-artwork without much success | 18:28 |
| scott-work | i need to talk to dick macinnis again about the blueprint and spec i made and see if he can do something like it | 18:29 |
| scott-work | (macinnis already made some very nice wallpapers but not what i really had in mind) | 18:29 |
| scott-work | and i'll try to touch an artist type person who was working with cory for a short time called 'izo' | 18:29 |
| scott-work | but i freaking want THIS | 18:30 |
| scott-work | i might even set aside some money just to pay for it | 18:30 |
| astraljava | I vaguely recall that nick (or something like that), but didn't he go to Japan in a hurry? Is he available again? | 18:30 |
| scott-work | astraljava: no, that was....hmmmm, dont' remember | 18:32 |
| scott-work | but not the same person | 18:32 |
| astraljava | Oh ok. | 18:32 |
| scott-work | izo is a east bloc looking dude with a long goatee and kinda scary | 18:32 |
| scott-work | what's that new video editor coming out? damn, i met the dudes and talked with them on two different morning during breakfast at uds :( | 18:33 |
| scott-work | novacut...he left working with cory to do the novacut icon/logo | 18:34 |
| scott-work | hold on.... | 18:34 |
| scott-work | AHA! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/novacut/novacut-pro-video-editor/posts/101241 | 18:34 |
| scott-work | first picture is izo | 18:34 |
| scott-work | okay, he looks more hispanic to me now | 18:34 |
| astraljava | Little bit scary nonetheless. :) | 18:35 |
| scott-work | i can be scary looking, but this guy looks bigger and would actually make me very, very careful if i met him in a dark alley | 18:37 |
| scott-work | ;) | 18:37 |
| astraljava | Agreed. :) | 18:38 |
| scott-work | oh, the link i sent earlier this morning (or was it last night) about the package sizes has me thinking quite a bit | 18:38 |
| scott-work | i might even set up a kde install just to verify a few thing and gather some more information about some gnome package sizes | 18:38 |
| scott-work | BUT it certainly reinforced that i'm probably going to go with brasero as our image burner for two reasons: | 18:39 |
| scott-work | 1. k3b (which many people suggested) is hella big install! | 18:39 |
| scott-work | 2. we've used braser for years and i dont' really recall any vocal complaints | 18:39 |
| astraljava | Did we even have anything for oneiric? | 18:41 |
| scott-work | brasero i believe | 18:42 |
| scott-work | what we were missing was text editor and maybe something else fairly minor | 18:42 |
| astraljava | It's not in the desktop file, at least. | 18:42 |
| scott-work | oneiric is embarassing actually | 18:43 |
| astraljava | It's in the video file! | 18:43 |
| scott-work | astraljava: does the agenda include the LTS request? i forget | 18:43 |
| astraljava | WHY?! | 18:43 |
| astraljava | Oh, have to check. | 18:43 |
| scott-work | why is oneiric embarrasing? it's unfinished and extremely rough | 18:43 |
| astraljava | No, I mean why is brasero in the video file of the seeds?! | 18:44 |
| astraljava | grr... wiki's being its own self again... | 18:44 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Yeah, the proposal is on the agenda. | 18:44 |
| scott-work | astraljava: thanks | 18:45 |
| scott-work | astraljava: brasero in video is probably my fault | 18:45 |
| scott-work | i've gotten a better understanding of what ubuntu studio should be, at least on a more fundamental level | 18:45 |
| astraljava | I don't think oneiric was embarrassing. It was a test drive. | 18:45 |
| astraljava | Quite successful for such. | 18:46 |
| scott-work | well, i guess so ;) | 18:46 |
| astraljava | It was the first attempt for switching over to XFCE, mind you. | 18:46 |
| scott-work | but i realize that there are certain applications that should be included in desktop simply for the desktop experience, like text editor and image burner :P | 18:46 |
| astraljava | And considering the manpower that we had for that cycle... I'm actually quite amazed we had something out in the first place. | 18:46 |
| scott-work | and not rely on, say, the video seed | 18:46 |
| scott-work | eh, so much of that is done by others and will continue on unless something breaks without practically any input from this team | 18:47 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Yeah, but then again, this isn't your regular desktop distribution. | 18:47 |
| astraljava | I'd say we would need more tasks, so that user could decide at install-time whether to make it more desktop-ish. | 18:47 |
| scott-work | true, but editing text or burning the image IS part of the desktop usage, not really on a particular seed, work flow, or even task | 18:47 |
| scott-work | hmmmm, that's an interesting idea | 18:48 |
| astraljava | After all, it's a DVD, so we can include more stuff. As long as the .iso doesn't become a full-fledged 4.7GB-er | 18:48 |
| scott-work | later on, maybe weeks or a month, i would like to poke cjwatson again and ask if there is a better way to make tasks with creating a seed for each one | 18:48 |
| astraljava | It's true, a very simple editor could be included by default. Like leafpad. | 18:49 |
| scott-work | ooooooo...."without", not "with creating a seed for each one" | 18:49 |
| astraljava | But no office suite. Not even Abiword. | 18:49 |
| scott-work | i like gedit really, it's good for code as well | 18:49 |
| astraljava | True. | 18:49 |
| scott-work | leafpad and mousepad are good, not to detract from that, but i do like the code highlighting (especially because i'm such a code noob and i need all the help i can get) | 18:50 |
| astraljava | Yeah, I just tested, no highlighting at all. | 18:51 |
| astraljava | Ok, gedit it could be. | 18:52 |
| scott-work | i am leaving work slightly early today and i will focus on getting two things done tonight: pushing the kernel to REVU and updating the seeds for theme-ui change and filing bug for sponsors | 19:02 |
| astraljava | scott-work: Good idea. I think I'm going to try and get some sleep soon, and wake up at 5 am. for the Ducks' game. I'll then start to work on the seeds, both for live-dvd and desktop. | 19:06 |
| scott-work | cool :) thank you metric tonnes, astraljava | 19:08 |
| vaev | okay let's see.. gonna install current and see what has it eaten | 19:20 |
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