/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/19/#ayatana.txt

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snadgeyo!05:50
snadgesmspillaz in da house? :p05:51
alkisgHi, is there any option for unity alt+tab switch to NOT group similar windows? It's a real pain to switch between 2 gedit windows with the keyboard...07:06
alkisgI press alt+tab once to have the windows list, then 10 times to cycle between my other windows, then wait 2 seconds in the gedit button so that the 2 gedit window previews are shown, and then try to read the thumbnail to decide which is the gedit window I'm in and which one is the other I want to get to.07:06
alkisgI installed the compizconfig-settings-manager and saw some options for the unity switcher there, but there was no option to never group similar windows07:19
snadgealkisg: try alt ~07:20
alkisgsnadge: thanks a lot, that solves half of my problem. The other half is when I want to switch from e.g. pidgin to one of those 2 gedit windows, where the "never group windows" option would be necessary.07:22
alkisg*handy, of course not necessary, I can live with taking 10 seconds to find the correct window :)07:22
snadgewell.. as annoying as unity is.. often people come unstuck with it07:23
snadgebecause they're trying to do force it to do something an old fashioned way07:24
snadgewhen theres a newer much simpler way of doing it07:24
snadgei find using workspaces more effectively works around that problem07:24
alkisgI tried to use workspaces a couple of years ago, but I didn't manage to increase my productivity with them07:25
snadgeyou would alt tab until you get to the gedit icon. then press the down key, and select the gedit window you want07:25
snadgethen alt tab will switch between pidgin and that particular gedit window07:25
alkisgsnadge: if you have some more time, could you tell me how are you using workspaces? Do you have discrete usage patterns, i.e. "programming" "surfing" and put the windows for each pattern to one workspace?07:27
snadgethe idea behind the grouping is that it makes it easier to find the application you want to switch to.. if you have 10 programs open and each program has 6 or more windows associated with it.. it becomes confusing07:27
snadgebasically yes07:27
alkisgBecause I have e.g. 10 apps open at all times, but no discrete way to split them into workspaces, and I like to always work with maximized apps....07:27
snadgei dont have any applications overlapping07:27
snadgeand i know which workspace has the app/window that im looking for07:28
snadgeso i just use ctrl-alt and arrow keys to pan between the different workspaces07:28
snadgeso i never have to use alt-tab07:28
alkisgHow many workspaces are you actively using?07:28
snadgeat the moment 807:28
snadgeat home.. only 407:28
alkisgSo at most you have to press 4 shortcuts to switch to the one you want...07:29
alkisgNot bad07:29
snadgeyou just get used to it after a while.. i dont even think of it that way07:29
snadgeill just go.. ctrl-alt up right right07:29
alkisgYou basically replaced "alt-tab" with "workspaces" :)07:29
snadgeyeah that way i dont have to bother with overlapping windows.. which is annoying07:30
snadgei basically ignore the unity panel.. although.. if i have to find a window that i've lost07:30
snadgei'll sometimes use that07:30
snadgei also use it to launch commonly used applications07:30
alkisgWhat I was doing so far, was to remember how many times to press alt+tab to go to a set of 3-4 apps that I'm concurrently using. For the rest of them, I looked at the bottom panel, and used the mouse.07:31
snadgei basically used gnome 2 the same way.. the biggest thing that upset me with the transition to gnome 307:31
snadgewas the lack of panel applets07:31
alkisgNow, when I have to switch between 3 windows (say, pidgin, gedit, console), it's a pain, I haven't figured out how to best do it yet07:31
alkisgYes, it's the first time for me to miss the panels (from 10.04 directly to 12.04, I like LTS releases :))07:32
snadgehave pidgin, gedit and console on seperate workspaces ;)07:32
snadgealso07:32
snadgeif you press the windows (mod) key.. you will see numbers show up on the top 10 items on the panel07:32
snadgeso you could number pidgin, gedit and console07:33
snadgeand just hit mod+8, mod+9, mod+0 for example07:33
alkisgI've seen that but I didn't get to use it yet. I think that's the best course for me... alt+number, and then alt ~07:33
snadgeits mostly old people that have the issue with how the desktop is changing07:34
alkisgI'll just have to organize my mind to map from console to 1, pidgin to 2, gedit to 3, firefox to 4 etc07:34
snadgeim 30 myself.. and at first, it grossly offended me the radical change.. and the regression in functionality07:34
snadgebut i've been using unity now for a few months07:35
alkisgYes after 20 years of the same desktop concept (i'm 38), it's difficult to change, especially if it requires more seconds to do a tasks07:35
snadgeand i like it now.. i dont care about gnome 2 anymore07:35
snadgei dont miss it at all07:35
alkisgI do like the extra screen space, it's the task switching and lack of directly seeing which apps are running that bothers me07:35
snadgelinus torvalds felt the same way apparently.. strongly enough to switch to xfce07:36
alkisgI guess I'll get used to it, and find other ways to do quickly the things I do frequently... :)07:36
snadgeright.. i also recommend reading a guide on unity shortcuts07:36
snadgei dont have one off hand.. but i googled for it.. and learned tips and tricks from that07:36
snadgeits slower at first.. but after you find more efficient ways to do things.. it becomes much less annoying07:37
snadgexfce is just way too horrible for me to even consider using07:37
snadgebut i guess if you absolutely must have a traditional task switcher.. its one of the few remaining options07:37
snadgei just figured.. why try to fight it ;)07:38
alkisgI put 11.04 to my daughter's and wife's laptops07:38
snadgei think that still has "gnome-classic" option from memory07:38
alkisgThey both had me revert their laptops to 10.04 within a week07:38
snadge11.10 has dropped support for gnome classic.. thats when i was forced to make the switch07:39
alkisgI then tried gnome-classic in my daughter's laptop, she could live with it07:39
snadgei like unity now.. i honestly think its better than gnome-shell07:39
smspillazsnadge: kind of, but pretty busy atm, whats wrong ?07:39
alkisgDropped support? Wow :(07:39
snadgesmspillaz: just checking up on the silly workspace switching focus issue ;)07:40
smspillazI haven't had time to look at it yte07:40
smspillazbeen on planes / sick etc etc etc07:40
snadgebugger :/07:40
snadgemaybe someone should report an issue on launchpad for it? or you'll get to it eventually? :p07:40
smspillazI'll get to it eventually07:40
snadgealkisg: i know this is going to sound treasonous.. but centos still uses gnome 207:41
snadgeand will be supported for many years07:41
alkisg(09:39:43 πμ) snadge: i like unity now.. i honestly think its better than gnome-shell ==> but do you honestly think it's better than gnome-2's panels?07:41
snadgebut .. i honestly think unity is worth investing the time into learning how to use efficiently07:41
snadgewell.. like i said, i dont miss gnome 2.. i spent about a week or two being frustrated by it07:42
snadgebut that was many months ago, and i simply dont care now07:42
snadgeit would've been nice if both the gnome-shell and the unity devs.. provided more assistance for people who dont wish to radically alter the way they've been doing things for years.. its quite a rude shock for many people07:43
alkisgI will... I'm in charge of deployments in about 250 schools, so I want to really push myself to like unity. If I can't, then maybe we'll try KDE or LXDE...07:43
snadgeyes.. its better.. yes, i can see why they've made the decisions they have.. but they've had time to get used to it, and they're desktop interface "experts"07:43
snadgeother people just load it for the first time.. and go "what the *expletive*"07:44
snadgeand its a very common reaction to get angry and start screaming blue murder07:44
snadgei can't believe that was never considered important07:44
snadgethe kids will have much less issue with unity or gnome shell.. i guarantee that07:45
snadgekids brains are much more adaptive07:45
alkisgHmmm not sure about that . My 11 year old daughter, ubuntu user since 3 years, reported that she likes them in this order: "gnome-2, gnome-classic, KDE, unity". Now I have kubuntu in her laptop, and lubuntu in the other one...07:45
alkisgThe other one adapted to lubuntu very quickly, the first one cried until I replaced unity :P07:46
snadgeperhaps i meant kids with zero exposure to traditional desktop windowing systems07:46
snadgeor kids that use macos x07:46
alkisgIt's very difficult to find them nowadays though07:46
alkisgMaybe, no experience with macos X07:47
snadgeif you think unity is bad.. have you tried gnome-shell? .. ergh07:47
snadgethats a definite wtf were they thinking07:47
alkisgNo thanks :D I don't even care to see how it looks!07:47
alkisgHehe07:47
snadgeperhaps you should try it.. then you'll be like.. hey this unity is actually pretty good ;)07:48
alkisgHehehe don't tell that idea to my wife, she'll have me looking at fat ugly women all the time :D07:48
snadgesame with OS X.. it still confuses the daylights out of me.. granted i've only used OSX for a grand total of like 2 minutes07:49
snadgebut it horrifies me07:49
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* alkisg settled in using win+number to launch AND switch to his favorite apps. Fortunately if I'm in gedit, pressing win+3 once gets me to the more recent pidgin window I used, and if I press it twice, it shows me the pidgin window list, so I like that.08:09
alkisgThanks again snadge :)08:09
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* mhall119 wonders what davidcalle is up to with google+13:34
smosercould someone other than me please look at bug 90585413:45
ubot5Launchpad bug 905854 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "memory leak in unity-2d-panel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/90585413:46
smoserunity-2d is leaking serious memory. by tomorrow it will top firefox as largest memory consumer on my desktop.13:46
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smoserdidrocks, it would seem to me that the bug above is critical, i'm really just hoping to see someone acknowledge it at this point.14:21
didrocksgreyback: ^14:21
didrockssmoser: I'm adding it to next milestone14:22
didrocksto ensure it's tracked14:22
smoserthanks.14:22
didrocksso, it's only in the panel, isn't it?14:22
didrocksno leak from the dash, launcher ?14:22
didrockssmoser: do you have something like indicator-multiload (the cpu indicator) or the weather one?14:23
smoseri do run indicator-multiload :-(14:24
smoserdidrocks, here's a pastebin of top sorted by 'M'14:25
smoserhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/809674/14:25
greybacksmoser: thanks for report, am looking into it14:25
smoserso, yes, for me, its only unity-2d-places that goes crazy14:25
didrockssmoser: ok, this one is a known indicator issue, can you just try to remove it and see if it still leaks?14:25
didrocksjust to ensure you are hitting that issue14:26
smoserdidrocks, i can do that, yes.14:26
smoserbut i really like indicator-multiload14:26
didrockssmoser: thanks :)14:26
smoser:)14:26
smoserlogging out14:26
didrocksgreyback: let's wait to get more feedback14:26
greybackdidrocks: indeed, am watching14:26
smoserdidrocks, is there a bug open for indicator-multiload ?14:27
didrockssmoser: yeah, I'm looking for it14:27
didrockshttps://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-multiload/+bug/77971714:27
ubot5Launchpad bug 779717 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "indicator-multiload causes a memory leak in compiz when run under unity" [Undecided,Triaged]14:27
didrocksit's fixed released, but cjwatson got some other issues last cycle14:28
* didrocks looks again14:28
didrockssmoser: no, didn't find anything more, if it's multiload, we can recycle your bug report :)14:30
didrocksJohnLea: hey, small question: alt + F1 is used to enter the keynav mode, previous, escape and alt + F1 was then used to quit the keynav mode. It's not anymore the case (Alt + F1 doesn't wort to quit this mode), is it wanted ?14:33
greybackdidrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/885304/comments/514:35
ubot5Launchpad bug 885304 in unity-2d "[launcher] When Launcher already has keyboard focus, Alt-F1 doesn't give focus to Dash Button" [Low,In progress]14:35
JohnLeadidrocks; it should be possible to escape the Alt+F1 keynav mode both by pressing Esc and by pressing Alt+F1 a second time.14:36
didrocksJohnLea: greyback: thanks! it's then a regression :)14:36
didrocks(in 3d)14:37
smoserdidrocks, greyback i disabled indicator-multiload and commented in the bug. thanks for your help. i'll report back in a few hours to see if my memory is growing14:42
didrockssmoser: keep us in touch!14:42
greybacksmoser: please let me know what you find14:42
Andy80Kaleo: ping!16:02
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LLStarkssmspillaz, can framebuffers between two gpus be handled easily by a compositing wm? https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/bumblebeed/issues/3716:40
smspillazLLStarks: not afaik, thats not really my area of expertise16:47
smspillazThe only way to do it would be context sharing, athough context sharing between two gpus on first principles would be really ugly because of the fact that the internal layouts are different16:47
smspillazin addition, gpu1 cannot access memory on gpu2 without a copy and internal representation reorder16:48
LLStarkswould it be possible without a dma buffer sharing technique?16:48
smspillazLLStarks: it would be really really slow16:49
smspillazLLStarks: best to ask the same question to jaytaoko he knows more than me16:49
smspillaz(a LOT more)16:49
LLStarksthx16:49
smspillazLLStarks: btw, my answer was more along the lines of "you can handle it, but it wouldn't really be easy ... or fast"16:50
smspillazLLStarks: I know that, eg, "prime" which was airlied's implementation of optimus required you to run a compositing window manager, but I'm pretty sure what it did was bring up the X server on gpu 1, and then run anything requiring opengl on gpu 2, so the compositing window manager was necessary so that pixmaps can be pulled out of the X server and into gpu memory16:52
smspillazthough thats not really the same as framebuffer sharing16:52
smspillazLLStarks: of course, you're best to ask airlied about the specifics of prime, but I'm pretty sure it required extensive server patching so that the x server ran in a "dummy" screen and the real work was done by gpu 216:54
smspillazgpu muxing is so stupid I want it to die16:54
LLStarksi've been talking to airlied, not a lot of answers. makes testing almost impossible.16:57
smspillazhe's not really assigned to work on prime full time, it was more of a hack16:57
LLStarksit doesn't look like a hack anymore. thousands of lines of code are going into it16:58
smspillazwell, it was originally :)16:58
om26ergreyback, hey! seems bug 827414 stays in unity-2d, alot of people are confirming17:12
ubot5Launchpad bug 827414 in unity-2d "gedit fails to start on first try, but does on the second" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82741417:12
greybackom26er: hey. Thanks for ping17:14
om26erso it was fixed in both lenses at one stage. /me wonders why it stayed in unity-2d17:15
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om26er_andyrock, can you look at bug 88432318:23
ubot5Launchpad bug 884323 in unity (Ubuntu) "Modal maximized windows are showing all window controls (and every of them works)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88432318:23
om26er_and Hi andyrock :D18:23
andyrockHi18:23
andyrockworking on other stuff right now18:23
andyrockand i have an exam tomorrow :/18:23
om26er_alright, I had one today :D18:24
andyrockone tomorrow18:25
andyrockand another one in five days18:25
andyrock:/18:25
andyrocklet me give a look to the bug btw18:25
andyrocki think that the but is a bit more generic18:26
andyrocki mean we should not display the minimize button if the window cannot be minimized18:27
om26er_yeah or maybe do the same as dash18:27
om26er_i.e. minimize button be greyed out18:27
andyrockyep18:28
andyrocklet me give a loook18:28
andyrockom26er_, i can find a app with a screenshot preview :)18:30
andyrockcan you help me?18:30
andyrock:)18:30
om26er_hrm?18:31
om26er_andyrock, here to help but about what exactly?18:31
andyrockhelp me to find an app with a screeshot in the usc18:31
andyrockmaybe it's usc bug18:32
om26er_empathy18:32
om26er_i just opened and usc have the screenshot for empathy so could be a problem specific to you18:33
andyrockom26er_, btw i can reproduce the bug with other modal dialog18:33
andyrock*dialogs18:33
andyrockassign me the bug pleas18:33
andyrock*please18:33
om26er_sure thing,18:33
om26er_thx andyrock :)18:33
andyrockbut we should talk about this stuff18:33
andyrockin the #ubuntu-unity18:33
andyrockfreenode channel :)18:33
mhall119pretty soon #ayatana is going to redirect to #ubuntu-unity19:56
mhall119thumper: ping19:56
bschaeferhey mhr3, here is the update that #711199 bug. https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity/fix-71119921:07
bschaeferhttps://launchpadlibrarian.net/90406656/no_results.png what it looks like21:09
mhr3bschaefer, yea, i saw, but there's a big branch coming which will change the home lens, so i'll be better to do it afterwards21:15
mhr3*it'll21:16
bschaefermhr3, yeah I saw that was getting worked on. That is why I waited on that one, but all the other lenses work!21:16
bschaeferthough one thing came up only on first login though.21:16
bschaeferin LensVeiw it calls Search("") and OnSearchFinished gets called with 0 results (even though they exist)21:17
bschaefergets emited*21:17
bschaeferyou edited that function so I thought you might have looked at it (gets a link)21:18
bschaefermhr3, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/plugins/unityshell/src/LensView.cpp#L35021:19
mhr3that shouldn't happen21:19
bschaeferI think it is getting called to earlier; the Search ("")21:19
bschaeferwhen I removed it everything was working fine but was hesitant to commit it so i used a different fix.21:20
mhr3i know that mikkel was having issues with the view_types, but he might have fixed it already :)21:20
bschaefersweet! I should email njpatel about that to see if it is even needed.21:21
mhr3bschaefer, i'll make a note to look at it during the review21:21
bschaeferalright thanks. I tested it and nothing changed with removing  it (the initial_activation calls):)21:21
mhr3bschaefer, what you want to test then is killing the lenses21:23
mhr3afaict it should be using the last search_string, not just ""21:24
mhall119does Unity 5 allow dynamic loading/updating of lenses?21:25
bschaeferso killing them and restarting to see if it loads correctly?21:25
mhr3bschaefer, good test would be searching, killing them and then just switching the views21:26
bschaefermhr3, well the search_string at first is "" which is why I check if results == 0 && search_string != "" so I don't get that start up problem21:26
bschaefermhr3 ooo yeah what do you think should happen when there are 0 results to begin with? (like if i have no music)21:27
mhr3i really dont like such workarounds21:27
bschaefermhr3, I dont either, but I like getting rid of that early call the Search which cases a problem; but want to talk to someone else about it21:27
mhr3bschaefer, maybe the lens should say, oh dear, poor you, go buy some music :)21:27
bschaefermhr3, haha21:28
bschaeferI just havn't put any on the VM21:28
mhall119davidcalle: ping21:28
bschaefermhr3, so Ill test that out more with killing lenses and get back. Ill move the branch to needs fixing also for the merge21:29
bschaefermhr3, thanks!21:29
mhr3bschaefer, just set it to "work in progress"21:29
bschaefermhr3, opps to late. Umm but set it to work in progress :)21:30
davidcallemhall119, pong21:30
mhall119davidcalle: hey, just wanted to check in and see how things were going for you getting your scopes into USC21:31
davidcallemhall119, going pretty well. I'm getting a branch ready to send for this w-e.21:31
mhall119davidcalle: awesome, let me know if there's anything I can do to help21:32
davidcallemhall119, magic packaging :)21:32
mhall119either with the code itself, or with the ARB/process side21:32
mhall119did Ken vandine help with the packaging?21:33
davidcallemhall119, no, everything is fine. Stéphane Graber did most of the work and now I have a good template.21:33
mhall119ah cool, stgraber is excellent21:33
davidcalleHe is.21:33
davidcallemhr3, about the results-hint, I'm wondering at what point should I set it.21:38
davidcallemhr3, reply-hint*21:39
mhr3davidcalle, before calling search.finished () would probably be a good idea?21:39
davidcallemhr3, sure :) But I'm asking because I don't have any success with it.21:40
mhr3davidcalle, well you won't see anything in the dash now21:40
mhr3it's not hooked up yet21:40
mhr3davidcalle, bschaefer has a branch for it though21:41
davidcallemhr3, oh, it explains a lot :)21:41
joeymhall119 & jono -  Hi21:50
joeyI just got a request to close down #ayatana and put a migrate to #ubuntu-unity21:50
jonojoey, yup21:50
joeyCan either of you confirm that?21:50
jonojoey, I can21:50
joeysweet21:50
joeyThe topic on this channel will be deleted.21:50
joeyI was thinking of doing a soft-redirect (entrymsg plus custom topic) for a bit until the email that you've probably sent makes its rounds21:51
=== joey changed the topic of #ayatana to: Home.nsg of Unity and Ayatana || http://unity.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana || Bitesize Bugs you can help with: http://goo.gl/i1WA1 and http://goo.gl/tiheb || Not getting an answer? Post on the https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev mailing list
=== joey changed the topic of #ayatana to: NOTICE: This channel has moved to #ubuntu-unity. Go there and profit!
mhall119\o/21:53
mhall119see you all over there21:53
jonojoey, can we put a re-direct in in a week or so21:55
jonomhall119, can you blog about the move to the new channel?21:55
joeyjono: I think so. We need freenode staff to do that21:56
jonothanks joey21:56
joeyjono: my pleasure21:56
jono:-)21:56
mhall119jono: sure thing21:56
joeypopey: ok you should be able to op here now21:59
popeythat works then22:00
popeythank you for your continued awesomeness joey22:00
joeyI am here to serve22:00
joeyI'll let you akick and clear folks popey22:00
popeythanks22:03
balloonsI guess this is the end22:15
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