[15:38] <skulltip> to use ubuntu-tv on ubuntu, do i need to follow the webupd8 blog instructions? or does it come with ubuntu :/?
[15:43] <Saviq> skulltip, the only ~supported way of running ubuntu-tv is from source
[15:44] <skulltip> you mean it's in beta still?
[15:45] <mhall119> it's in alpha still
[15:46] <skulltip> cool.. is the plan to use amazon tv
[15:46] <mhall119> the plan is to allow the use of as many sources as possible
[15:47] <skulltip> could netflix be a possiblity
[15:47] <mhall119> if netflix gets on board, yes
[15:47] <skulltip> ok thanks
[15:48] <mhall119> skulltip: the issue with Netflix, as far as I know, is that they need DRM
[15:49] <skulltip> true
[15:49] <mhall119> that'll probably be an issue with most content providers
[15:51] <popey> I don't think that's a major issue.
[15:51] <Saviq> it's not even in alpha
[15:51] <popey> Getting them on-board is mthe hardest part
[15:51] <popey> and actually finishing the code ☺
[15:53] <LjL> i really hope you don't plan to support DRM...
[15:55] <skulltip> wonder if a cloud-like DRM is possible, or virtualized stream-like
[15:56] <popey> LjL: if we don't implement some form of DRM then chances are we will have near-zero content
[16:00] <skulltip> store recorded movies on an encrypted partition, impossible to copy to another drive or machine?
[16:00] <popey> we have to do what the distributors / studios want basically. we're not big (apple/amazon) enough to influence whether they use DRM or not
[16:01] <popey> (yet)
[16:01] <skulltip> wave a potential market in their face however?
[16:02] <LjL> then you could start by making a lovely mediacenter thing even without much available content... but meh, nevermind this or i'll start a flamewar since i have pretty strong opinions on the subject
[16:06]  * tgm4883 just wants netflix,amazon vod, vudu, etc
[16:07] <h00k> Hey all.  Question about this...Is it going to be possibly to nicely play an existing media library? (videos, music, etc)
[16:07] <tgm4883> h00k, yes?
[16:07] <tgm4883> I'm not sure what you mean by that
[16:07] <h00k> tgm4883: okay. rather than just things on services like netflix, etc, etc.
[16:07] <tgm4883> yes
[16:07] <h00k> Like, "Oh, you have some stuff on your network in a share (mtp, whatever), you can play that too!)
[16:08] <h00k> I mixed my " and ) :(
[16:08] <tgm4883> from the screenshots/demos, you should have been able to see that you could play things like recorded content and such
[16:08] <h00k> also, are things...say you "purchase" something, is it downloadable, or must it stream from $source?
[16:08] <tgm4883> I didn't pay attention, but I bet there was music and picture lenses as well
[16:09] <tgm4883> h00k, that would depend on the content provider I would assume
[16:09] <h00k> tgm4883: yeah, I didn't notice, I should check again.
[16:09] <tgm4883> whether they allow you to download it or stream it only
[16:09] <h00k> I see amusic note lens, yes, I'll assume music as well
[16:11] <h00k> Also, there's the 'record' feature, 'tivo' like recording of shows? Will they be playable on other things, or will they be DRM'd?
[16:12] <tgm4883> Unknown at this point
[16:12] <h00k> Gotcha.
[16:12] <tgm4883> I'm writing a scope for mythtv, and whatever is recorded on that can be played anywhere
[16:13] <h00k> avi or some matroska container or something cool.
[16:13] <tgm4883> depends on the tuner
[16:13] <tgm4883> whether it's nuv, mpg, avi, etc
[16:14] <h00k> Cool. okay.
[16:15] <Saviq> h00k, again, it depends on the provider - if we just go for <put_your_local_receiver_here>, be it DVB-{C,T,S}{,+,2}
[16:15] <Saviq> and a CI for your provider's CAM
[16:15] <Saviq> then I can't imagine applying any DRM on top of the recordings
[16:16] <Saviq> but if we produce a TV for a specific provider, they might require us to lock down the recordings
[16:16] <tgm4883> Saviq, I'm not sure how well that would fly with mythtv. IIRC the MythTV team wants to stay pretty far from anything CI/CAM related
[16:17] <tgm4883> wagnerrp, could probably talk more about that as he's on the mythtv team. I just know enough about it that we've banned it in our (mythbuntu) forum and IRC channel
[16:17] <tgm4883> of course, I could be mixing things up with that
[16:17] <wagnerrp> thats not the case
[16:18] <Saviq> tgm4883, they've banned _soft_ cam
[16:18]  * tgm4883 sits corrected
[16:18] <Saviq> they can't really ban hardware CAMs as that's... well, hardware
[16:18] <wagnerrp> mythtv has no problems using cablecard (when cablecard will work with us)
[16:18] <tgm4883> ah I was mixing the two then
[16:18] <wagnerrp> and will happily do the necessary prodding to activate hardware CAMs when available
[16:18] <Saviq> and the "proper" way to get access to otherwise protected content
[16:18] <wagnerrp> it just doesnt get much use, since i dont believe anyone on the dev team is currently using a CAM
[16:18] <tgm4883> wagnerrp, the only issue then is that it still needs to be marked copy freely?
[16:19] <wagnerrp> for cablecard, yes
[16:19] <Saviq> tgm4883, that's simply because using soft cams, at least historically - not so much now - allowed you to access content you didn't pay for
[16:19] <wagnerrp> for CI, there is no such thing, as CI is not a DRM scheme
[16:19] <wagnerrp> CI+ is... i dont know where we stand in regards to supporting CI+
[16:19] <wagnerrp> right, what Saviq said
[16:19] <wagnerrp> that has changed now?
[16:20] <Saviq> wagnerrp, soft cams?
[16:20] <wagnerrp> "not so much now"
[16:20] <Saviq> yeah, most protocols now are fixed enough to basically prevent that
[16:20] <Saviq> as far as I know, at least
[16:21] <Saviq> the only use I have for sasc-ng is a "poor man's cam", which simply gives me the ability to not pay big bucks for the CI and CAM
[16:21] <Saviq> still pay the fees
[16:21] <Saviq> and anyway that's only possible with select providers
[16:21] <Saviq> most providers just give you locked down stb + card
[16:22] <Saviq> so you can't use anything apart from that pair
[16:22] <Saviq> so no mythtv, no ubuntutv will help you in that case - you're stuck with the stb the provider gives you
[16:22]  * tgm4883 uses an STB and HDPVR
[16:23] <tgm4883> it's less than ideal, but it gets the job done
[16:23] <wagnerrp> what a reversal from a couple years ago, where EU users could use CAMs and US digital cable users were pretty much screwed
[16:24] <wagnerrp> although if youve got time warner, youre still screwed
[16:24] <wagnerrp> :)
[16:26] <Saviq> wagnerrp, it's going to change again, I think, as more and more TVs come with built-in CIs, even DVB-S/S2
[16:26] <Saviq> and a box that can get 4 CAMs these days is el-cheapo
[16:27] <Saviq> they will have to rethink their strategy, /methinks
[16:27] <wagnerrp> Saviq: except arent most switching to CI+?
[16:27] <Saviq> or /mehopes
[16:27] <Saviq> wagnerrp, dunno, but still, if you can use a single box to get access to several providers' content in a unified manner
[16:27] <Saviq> that's a huge win than 3 separate boxes, remotes, whatnot