[07:55] <popey> Morning all
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> \o popey
[08:19] <popey> anyone fancy confirming bug 919082 ?
[08:20] <sagaci> popey: affirmative
[08:21] <popey> and if it does please tick the 'This affects you' thing
[08:21] <sagaci> done
[08:22] <popey> thanks!
[08:22] <sagaci> I checked in ubuntu 12.04 latest updates
[08:51] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:51] <czajkowski> why would you need more than 4 layouts?
[09:16] <dwatkins> Someone might need to write in 5 different languages.
[09:18] <jpds> dwatkins: Yes, I have experience with that.
[09:19] <jpds> popey: Ohhh, yes.
[09:20] <Seeker`> o/
[09:22] <AlanBell> looks like it is a hard limit in X
[09:22] <jpds> AlanBell: Lovely.
[09:23] <AlanBell> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/LibXklavier in the documentation section there are two pdf files that explain it
[09:24] <AlanBell> I don't understand them, but that is where the four is coming from
[09:25] <dwatkins> So it's all SGI's fault? ;)
[09:26] <AlanBell> it is probably a wait for wayland kind of bug
[09:26] <AlanBell> should be fixed in 14.04
[09:29] <jpds> Oh well.
[09:33] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:35] <daubers> Morning
[09:35] <daubers> Anyone else on BT Business broadband having issues this morning?#
[09:38] <oimon> oh deary me. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16642189
[09:39] <AlanBell> gosh
[09:39] <bigcalm> :(
[09:39] <DJones> daubers: The only person I know on BT is online without any problems
[09:40] <daubers> DJones: It's an issue with BT Business broadband, specifically with people who have static IP's :(
[09:40] <DJones> Right, this was a residential line
[09:40] <daubers> BT have an answerphone message saying there's an issue..
[09:41] <DJones> http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status_consumer/ss_cat/2468,2470/ Website just suggests sheffield have problems
[09:45] <daubers> We have that issue and we're not in sheffield :(
[09:46] <daubers> http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status/a_id/19500#ans_19500
[09:46] <daubers> suggests a bigger problem
[09:48] <popey> what i really want is for the keyboard layout on my mac to be correct, which it isnt ☹
[09:48] <tugrik> :)
[09:48] <tugrik> a few stickers combined with a new keyboard mapping will solve that popey ?
[09:49] <smittix> howdy campers.
[09:49] <popey> no
[09:49] <popey> xkb config fixes
[09:49] <bigcalm> Yikes, it's Friday!
[09:50] <smittix> bug 786325
[09:51] <nothingspecial> hi smittix, I missed you last night sorry (I have kids). Yes iTunes is in a Windows 7 VM
[09:51] <smittix> I am on BTBB everything looks fine here in Nottingham.
[09:52] <smittix> nothingspecial: Thanks for that.
[09:52] <daubers> smittix: Got a static IP?
[09:52] <smittix> daubers: Yes several
[09:52] <daubers> Hmmm.... ours won't authenticate :(
[09:52] <daubers> However, I'm a lot further south than you
[09:54] <smittix> :/
[10:00] <JamesTait> Merry Friday, everyone! :)
[10:00] <gord> best holiday of the week
[10:01] <gord> we really should make every Friday a national holiday
[10:02] <daubers> Like wear clogs to work day?
[10:03] <gord> thats not a real thing right? because that would be horrible
[10:03]  * popey also wishes he knew why his ssh session hangs for some time, catching up when he presses a key
[10:04] <oimon> virgin media?
[10:04] <popey> yes
[10:04] <oimon> :P
[10:04] <oimon> check your ping stats
[10:04] <popey> my what?
[10:04] <oimon> check for dropped packets
[10:04] <oimon> or CRC errors
[10:04] <popey>           RX packets:6419628 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
[10:04] <popey>           TX packets:7655543 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
[10:05] <matti> ;]
[10:05] <gord> tubes clogged =\
[10:05] <oimon> worth running a continuous ping to double check :-\
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.bufferbloat.net/ or a flaky router
[10:07] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/810534/
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Hop 2 seems to be lossy
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Hop 1 seems to have scary high ping
[10:08] <popey> hop 1 is my router I guess
[10:08] <oimon> looks like a traffic jam on the information superhighway
[10:08] <danfish_> morning
[10:09] <daubers> Morning danfish_
[10:09] <bigcalm> Morning
[10:09] <danfish_> I expect VM's big speedupgrade is going to cause chaos over the next 6 months :/
[10:09] <popey> heh
[10:09] <danfish_> daubers: o/
[10:09] <bigcalm> Damn phpexcel and column widths not matching excel column widths
[10:10] <bigcalm> danfish_: oh yes, I look forward to it
[10:10] <bigcalm> popey: remind me to move tig to bytemark
[10:11] <danfish_> went to 4yo son's assembly this morning to see him play the part of a duck. He cried
[10:11] <danfish_> time to do some work :(
[10:11] <daubers> Oh dear
[10:12] <czajkowski> danfish_: why a duck ?
[10:12] <czajkowski> hmm my keyboard seems to have gone a bit crazy during the update " is now longer where it should be as is @ a bit confused
[10:12] <bigcalm> Sounds like a US layout
[10:13] <czajkowski> aye
[10:13] <smittix> What's this Arch Linux I hear so much about.
[10:13] <smittix> heh
[10:13] <bigcalm> -.-
[10:14] <smittix> New version of LightDM is looking good.
[10:14] <bigcalm> smittix: I think czajkowski would be dragged over to RH if anything :P
[10:26] <popey> anyone on precise with a touchpad which supports multitouch?
[10:26] <gord> we talking real multi-touch or the two finger drag kind?
[10:27] <popey> real multitouch
[10:27] <popey> 3 fingers should trigger dash
[10:27] <popey> (it seems)
[10:27] <gord> ah nope here
[10:27] <gord> should really buy a magic whatever it is to test that stuff
[10:27] <popey> the dash keeps popping up randomly, i can trigger it by holding my hand just above the touchpad
[10:27] <popey> its insanely annoying
[10:27] <bigcalm> Carphone Warehouse still shows the Xoom in stock but won't let you buy it
[10:27] <bigcalm> *le sigh*
[10:28] <gord> popey, you anywhere near millbank today?
[10:28] <oimon> you prefer a xoom to the tranformer prime?
[10:28] <popey> no
[10:28] <bigcalm> oimon: price difference
[10:28] <gord> ah shame, last day jason is there, he does our multi-touch stuff in unity
[10:28] <popey> damnit, i was there yesterday
[10:28] <oimon> bigcalm: how much is the xoom?
[10:29] <popey> tempted to buy a thinkpad and donate my mac to an ubuntu person if they promise to fix it
[10:29] <bigcalm> 249.99 from Carphone Warehouse
[10:29] <gord> thinkpad <3 get the x220 ;)
[10:29] <gord> everyone else has one, should work well
[10:30] <popey> yeah, but thats missing the point ☹
[10:30] <popey> if everyone on the planet has an x220, no other laptops will ever work
[10:31] <gord> tis true, in my defence, i got my x220 before everyone else did. everyone else is a poser
[10:32] <jpds> popey: No other laptops are worth it.
[10:34]  * czajkowski hugs her z830
[10:34] <popey> gord: is yours a tablet then?
[10:35] <gord> popey, nope, tablet version wasn't out when i got mine
[10:37] <czajkowski> hmm no davmor2 :/
[10:38] <bigcalm> czajkowski: need somebody to poke/hug?
[10:39] <czajkowski> I've not poked him or stabbed him or threatened to kill him once this year
[10:39] <czajkowski> and January is almost up! :)
[10:40] <bigcalm> Hence the hug option
[10:40] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:40]  * czajkowski hugs bigcalm 
[10:40] <bigcalm> Awww
[10:40]  * bigcalm hugs czajkowski carefully
[10:40] <bigcalm> Always better than a poke
[10:41] <czajkowski> indeed
[10:41] <gord> davmor2 normally shows up around 11
[10:41] <gord> he's crazy
[10:41] <bigcalm> Attending a wedding this afternoon. Such a shame that it's pouring with rain :(
[10:41] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:42] <occupy64k> good morning
[10:42] <brobostigon> morning occupy64k
[10:42] <bigcalm> Hullo
[10:42] <occupy64k> Today I will be mostly hacking on the command line
[10:42] <czajkowski> bigcalm: not used to friday weddings, mate has chosen a friday at the end of august, as she wants a BBQ on the saturday for close mates to stay around. and catch up.
[10:43]  * Neoti_Laptop just found codeigniter ..... playing........
[10:44] <bigcalm> czajkowski: the husband to be has stomach cancer and the chemo hasn't worked. So they are getting married while he is still in fairly good health. Which meant organising a wedding in 10 days :( Feel really honoured to be invited to the wedding. We are their cat sitters :)
[10:44] <czajkowski> bigcalm: aww poor family
[10:44] <bigcalm> Neoti_Laptop: try cakephp instead :)
[10:45] <czajkowski> gonna be a lovely day but I suspect pretty emotional
[10:45] <Neoti_Laptop> i luv cake.
[10:45] <Neoti_Laptop> lol
[10:45] <Neoti_Laptop> will google it now
[10:45] <bigcalm> cakephp.org
[10:45] <bigcalm> CI makes you work far too hard for a MVC framework
[10:46] <czajkowski> mmm cake  usually about now Myrtti and christel pop up at the mention of cake
[10:46] <christel> cake.
[10:46] <christel> ;)
[10:46] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:46] <Myrtti> cheesecake
[10:46] <czajkowski> morning :)
[10:46] <Myrtti> you can even make it lowcarb high protein
[10:46] <Myrtti> probably
[10:46] <czajkowski> and christel does have the flour!
[10:46] <Myrtti> haven't looked for recipies
[10:47] <christel> i do indeed have flour :P
[10:47] <bigcalm> Beef Caje!
[10:47] <bigcalm> Cake!
[10:47] <bigcalm> I baked them a cake for xmas. Went down quite well apparently
[10:48] <popey> http://superuser.com/questions/262244/how-to-make-libreoffice-calc-to-not-to-hide-unfit-content-of-a-cell-when-the-fol
[10:48] <popey> any idea how to do what he is asking?
[10:48] <popey> I hate libreoffice
[10:49] <Myrtti> well atleast he's using Calc
[10:49] <Myrtti> he is excused for using it
[10:49] <popey> oooo, delete contents does it
[10:49] <Myrtti> there's no excuses for using Libreoffice for documents instead of latex
[10:49] <popey> there is
[10:49] <popey> i am exchanging documents with other people
[10:49] <Myrtti> so am I
[10:49] <oimon> what if the excuse is "i don't know latex well enough"
[10:50] <occupy64k> I've never used latex
[10:50] <bigcalm> Neither have I
[10:50]  * popey ignores the troll
[10:50] <oimon> or "latex produces documents that are too beautiful"
[10:51]  * popey leaves an answer like a good boy
[10:51]  * Myrtti gives popey a cookie
[10:53] <gord> wish i had cookies
[10:55]  * czajkowski gives gord some Millie cookies 
[10:55] <czajkowski> yummy stuff!
[10:56] <bigcalm> I feel really good for not buying any cookies yesterday. London, Birmingham New Street and Telford Centre (shopping centre) all teased me with their Millie Cookies stands
[10:57] <oimon> popey: did you have anything in the cell on the right of the text?
[10:57] <oimon> the spill over only happens then the cell to the right of it is empty
[11:03] <oimon> lovely videos if you have 10 mins to spare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ahXIMUkSXX0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lOIP_Z_-0Hs
[11:04] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:04] <davmor2> czajkowski: proddity proddity proddity prod, Happy Friday
[11:06]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
[11:06] <czajkowski> see we're back to normal davmor2 is back
[11:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: No I was still nice I added Happy Friday to the end :)
[11:10] <czajkowski> indeed
[11:19] <DJones> This seems a promising read for Linux engineers http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/01/20/linux_foundation_survey_big_data/
[11:26] <smittix> daubers: Having problems here now.
[11:29] <dwatkins> I'm on BT at home, it seems to work ok in Edinburgh.
[11:42] <bigcalm> I want to hit PHPExcel with something
[11:42] <bigcalm> A clue bat would be good
[11:44] <dwatkins> sounds like a fun plugin, bigcalm ...
[11:49] <gord> heh "phpexcel" - there is not a single letter in there that i want a part of
[11:50] <oimon> lol
[11:55] <bigcalm> dwatkins: it's a useful library, if you have to deal with excel poop for clients
[11:56] <dwatkins> bigcalm: ah I see, I feel your pain
[11:56] <bigcalm> But right now I'm having silly problems with the PHP itself
[11:56]  * dwatkins heads home to let BT in to hopefully fix his internet connection that drops out 5 times a day
[11:56] <dwatkins> c ya
[11:57] <bigcalm> Toodles
[12:31] <bigcalm> PHP! HELP! http://paste.ubuntu.com/810643/
[12:31] <bigcalm> :)
[12:33]  * MartijnVdS gives bigcalm a can of eye bleach
[12:35] <matti> Huh.
[12:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: try on a PHP channel :P
[12:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: there are PHP devs in here :P
[12:35] <matti> PHP is so '70.
[12:36] <christel> bigcalm: i just hump mgdm's leg whenever i need php
[12:36] <bigcalm> Tricky as it's a language of the '90s
[12:36] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap but they won't mock you as much as an entire channel of them would :D
[12:36] <bigcalm> christel: would you mind humping his leg for me? ;)
[12:36] <christel> not at all
[12:36] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'm used to it :P
[12:36]  * christel gets the lu...oh
[12:36]  * christel tickles mgdm 
[12:38] <Myrtti> looks like I need to add ubuntu-uk.tex on my IRCQuotes book
[12:43] <bigcalm> Not to worry. The example code was duff. I've found how to do it propperly
[12:45] <matti> bigcalm: Strip everything and only keep lines 2 to 12.
[12:45] <davmor2> bigcalm: man you got to love google :D
[12:45] <matti> bigcalm: Oh, you found it.
[12:46] <bigcalm> Replaced:
[12:46] <bigcalm> $objReader = new PHPExcel_Reader_Excel2007();
[12:46] <bigcalm> $objPHPExcel = $objReader->load($fileName);
[12:46] <bigcalm> With:
[12:46] <popey> Perl?
[12:46] <bigcalm> $objPHPExcel = PHPExcel_IOFactory::load($fileName);
[12:46] <bigcalm> Haha
[12:46] <popey> ;)
[12:47] <AlanBell> popey: http://mterry.name/log/2012/01/20/cant-log-into-precise-heres-help/
[12:53] <popey> AlanBell: thanks, have set dupe
[12:55] <mgdm> o___O
[12:57] <mgdm> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Eudora_OSE
[12:58] <bigcalm> Eudora?!
[12:59] <bigcalm> I actually _bought_ that
[12:59] <gord> woo more japanese candy through my letter box, best service ever
[12:59] <daubers> wooo
[12:59] <daubers> internets is back
[13:02] <mgdm> That was an excellent sandwich
[13:02] <mgdm> the only issue is, that it's not finished
[13:02] <mgdm> s/not/now/
[13:03] <christel> aww
[13:04] <bigcalm> Is it possible to crop a spreadsheet to a specified range?
[13:21] <bigcalm> Sod it, sub way
[13:22] <smittix> Subway solves everything
[13:22] <smittix> especially hunger
[13:22] <ikonia> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Linux-Ubuntu-Case-Badge-Sticker-/280803272311?pt=UK_Computing_Software_Software_SR&hash=item41612de677
[13:22] <ikonia> just incase any of you UK guys wanted to do a bit of pride on your laptops
[13:28] <AlanBell> would if it was the new branding
[13:28] <popey> we should get some made
[13:33] <smittix> I need some stickers for my lappy
[13:33] <davmor2> popey: let me know when you do :)
[13:59] <danfish_> I've got an ubuntu template at home for use with a spray can - spray the circle of friends on you laptop lid. Anyone want to borrow?
[14:00] <daubers_> Does anyone know if there's a FUSE irc channel?
[14:00] <Myrtti> I should take a photo of my laptop lid
[14:00] <daubers_> or can anyone tell me how I can catch what functions something wants me to impliment in python-fuse (instead of just getting a -34 error)
[14:01] <Myrtti> I wish someone would fix flickrfs
[14:02] <gord> why not you? ;) scratching itches is what most fixes come from
[14:03] <Myrtti> gord: because it's been so long from my coding days I can't do even a helloworld in any of the languages I've ever used apart from LaTeX without sneaking a look from some cheatsheet
[14:03] <Myrtti> not at this moment anyway
[14:06] <Myrtti> oh and bash of course
[14:06] <Myrtti> that and latex
[14:06] <gord> sounds like a good time to learn ;)
[14:07] <Myrtti> I know
[14:07] <Myrtti> :-|
[14:13] <kazade> afternoon all
[14:15] <daubers_> Hello kazade
[14:16] <kazade> hey daubers_, how's the book going?
[14:17] <daubers_> kazade: A bit slowly, but getting there :) Did all the exercises to the end of chapter 2
[14:17] <kazade> cool, I need to dig out the latest code for you
[14:17] <daubers_> spent ages understanding the windowing stuff that used X
[14:17] <kazade> my VPS died and it was hosted there
[14:17] <daubers_> :(
[14:18] <kazade> yeah, annoyingly I couldn't cover Linux in detail in the text :(
[14:18] <kazade> as the original was Windows focused
[14:18] <daubers_> Yeah, I kinda understand what's going one now (more or less) just need to carry on working through to get to the bits where I'm a bit wonky
[14:18] <popey> hey kazade
[14:19] <popey> long time no see
[14:19] <kazade> daubers_: ok, I'll try and port some of the apps to SDL 1.3 which will make life easier for you :)
[14:19] <kazade> hey popey
[14:19] <kazade> yeah, I keep forgetting about IRC :p
[14:19] <kazade> how's things?
[14:19] <popey> heh
[14:19] <popey> not bad ☺
[14:19] <kazade> how's the new job going?
[14:19] <kazade> well, newish
[14:19] <popey> sweet!
[14:20] <kazade> cool :)
[14:22]  * Laney bimbles
[14:32] <gord> apt-get update is such a tease.... 20s left... 10s left... 2. 1.. nope! anther 90s left!
[14:37] <oimon> brought to you by the author of the windows file copy dialogue box.
[14:40] <Myrtti> new thriller, this January - will he keep the file transfer speed up to 200K/s? What happens if the speed goes below 50K? Presenting Gord Allott in his breakthrough role - premiere on Friday 20th!
[14:42] <gord> spelt my second name right :D no one does that
[14:42] <Myrtti> that's because I know you're not Alot
[14:42] <Myrtti> even though I like you alot
[14:43] <gord> picturing an elmo alot now
[14:44] <davmor2> gord: that's just wrong
[15:11] <awilkins> Elmo likes code! Elmo wants Coffee!
[15:21] <awilkins> Elmo has web developer friend! ......    "COOKIE!!!!"
[15:37] <zleap> has anyone here used kidsruby
[15:41] <daubers> Can someone explain to me what the magic trick that's being explained here is and how I can impliment it? http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fuse/index.php?title=FUSE_Python_Reference#File_Class_Methods
[15:41] <daubers> </very confused>
[15:54] <kazade> daubers: You're a Python guy yeah?
[15:54] <daubers> kazade: I ive in a couple of languages, but python mostly :)
[15:55] <kazade> what's your editor of choice?
[15:55] <kazade> :)
[15:55]  * AlanBell contemplates an interesting fuse driver
[15:55] <daubers> kazade: pydev :)
[15:56] <daubers> kazade: But largley because I have machines that can handle eclipse well
[15:56] <kazade> Yeah mine too... well until Eclipse's memory usage drove me crazy
[15:56] <kazade> I'm hacking plugins for GEdit to make it more Pydev-like (but without the bloat)
[15:56] <davmor2> kazade: geany, gedit, nano, vim, and emacs are the most totted ones with idle for beginners
[15:56] <kazade> https://github.com/lukebpotato/geditpycompletion
[15:57] <davmor2> kazade: try geany it's basically gedit geared to devs
[15:57] <kazade> also: https://github.com/potatolondon/GPyflakes
[15:57] <kazade> davmor2: Yeah I've used Geany
[15:57] <Myrtti> geany ♥
[15:57] <kazade> they're all good :)
[15:58] <Myrtti> geany is loverly for latex as well
[15:58] <kazade> I like how easy it is to write GEdit plugins though (granted, I haven't checked what geany's plugin API is like :) )
[15:59] <gord> geany is nice :) i use vim myself, but if you want a moused based editor, its really good at just being nice and not getting in the way
[16:00] <kazade> Well, if anyone needs a Python code completion plugin for GEdit, there's one there ^^ :)
[16:00]  * zleap is upgrading to 11.10
[16:00] <kazade> I must check out geany again..
[16:00] <kazade> I'm not entirely sure why I stopped using geany actually..
[16:01] <oimon> non gtk3 compatible?
[16:02] <kazade> what, geany?
[16:02] <oimon> yeah
[16:02] <oimon> it's more of a question than a statement :P
[16:02] <AlanBell> does geany have no menu, or not work with the global menu?
[16:02] <kazade> I think I must've just stopped using it when I realized that GEdit could be more than just a Notepad equiv :)
[16:06] <kazade> hmm it's a shame Geany's plugin API is in C and not Python - I thought there would have been an easy port there :p
[16:11] <AlanBell> daubers: what will your fuse thing do?
[16:13] <oimon> a spooky floating error message: http://i.imgur.com/YdsAV.jpg
[16:20] <daubers> AlanBell: hide some files between UIDs
[16:20] <daubers> and redirect some writes to those files
[16:20] <daubers> making programs taht aren't designed for shared storage work with shared storage :)
[16:21] <oimon> has anyone tried linuxdeepin?
[16:21] <oimon> http://www.linuxdeepin.com/
[16:24] <daubers> Can't get this magic trick to work :( Don't really understand what it's doing
[16:28] <AlanBell> daubers: I am failing at the first hurdle, "fusermount mountpoint script.py" doesn't work
[16:28] <AlanBell> fusermount: extra arguments after the mountpoint
[16:29] <popey> anyone tried mumble on windows?
[16:29] <popey> I keep getting an odd error that everyone else gets, but nobody knows how to fix
[16:30] <popey> ""A referral was returned from the server.""
[16:31] <Daviey> popey: i suspect version mismatch.
[16:31] <Daviey> popey: grab a different binary
[16:31] <Daviey> OR.. just use G+
[16:31] <daubers> AlanBell: heh, fun. I've got the script mounting itself
[16:31] <oimon> Due to an expiring certificate no Mumble 1.2.2 or newer released before today (15.01.2012) will work on the Windows Platform after 15 January 2012 11:36:47 GMT. If such an outdated Mumble is launched after that date the error message “A referral was returned by the server” will be displayed by Windows and Mumble will not start.
[16:31] <popey> i cant use G+ when the people i need to speak to are on mumble
[16:32] <oimon> popey: ^^
[16:32] <oimon> http://blog.mumble.info/important-update-to-mumble-1-2-3a/
[16:32] <popey> i am on 1.2.3a
[16:33]  * popey reinstalls
[16:33] <oimon> the blog also has a fixed mumble exe for the 1.2.3 stable so try that otherwis
[16:35] <popey> gone to 1.2.4 which starts now
[16:35] <popey> thanks
[16:36] <oimon> np
[16:47] <AlanBell> /usr/share/doc/python-fuse/examples/hello.py seems to work
[16:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
[16:56] <davmor2> popey: why would you want to use mumble on Windows out of curiosity?
[16:57] <gord> i use mumble on windows, to talk to people, because skype is a pain
[16:58] <davmor2> gord: fair enough I just wondered if there was a big mumble following, obviously there is some :)
[16:58] <AlanBell> is this a canonical internal murmer server?
[16:58] <gord> davmor2, for video games mind
[16:58] <gord> people use mumble or some other one
[16:58] <AlanBell> I have a customer interested in using mumble
[16:58] <davmor2> gord: ah okay
[16:59] <gord> mumble can integrate into games and display stuff on top of the games
[16:59] <popey> i use mumble on windows because mumble on linux sucks donkey balls
[16:59] <popey> anyone trying to convince me otherwise can go to /dev/null
[16:59]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
[17:00]  * davmor2 sends himself to /dev/null
[17:00] <gord> mumble works fine for me :P
[17:00] <gord> after i set it to explicitly use certain devices, i haven't had any problems
[17:01] <davmor2> popey: only issue I get is sometime on initial startup it doesn't do audio, restart and all is fine
[17:03] <davmor2> popey: maybe you abuse it incorrectly ;)
[17:03]  * popey can't hear davmor2 talking from inside /dev/null
[17:04] <AlanBell> daubers: this python fuse stuff doesn't cover up the c very well does it!
[17:04] <davmor2> popey: You'll like it here it's full of software you love to hate
[17:07] <daubers> AlanBell: :)
[17:09] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: ah, fuse
[17:09] <daubers> still can't get the magic to work :(
[17:09] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I started looking at implementing a filesystem in fuse
[17:10] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: after some dramatic use of dd, strings and a bit of C to extract the binary bits, I just wrote a script to pick the disk images apart
[17:11] <ali1234> struct.unpack
[17:11] <ali1234> use it
[17:33]  * awilkins rolls back to about 1600-ish in the log
[17:33] <awilkins> kazade, gord, I quite like Komodo for the very little Python I do ; it has member indexing and autocomplete and also a vim emulation.
[17:34] <gord> komodo is good for python, but i've not seen it since before it went free
[17:34] <kazade> is Komodo free now?
[17:34]  * kazade adds it to the list
[17:34] <awilkins> kazade, They do a free and a premium
[17:34] <kazade> cool
[17:34] <awilkins> kazade, Komodo Edit for free, Komodo IDE for bucks
[17:34] <kazade> Ahh k..
[17:35] <kazade> Eclipse PyDev has always been cool once it's configured with Pylint, but it's just so resource hungry :(
[17:35] <gord> the main reason that komodo is good for python is that everything else is so bad with python though
[17:35] <awilkins> If I suddenly became a pro Python developer, I'd probably pay for the IDE version and try it out for a month or so
[17:36] <awilkins> But I've not hacked any Python since I got Bazaar working well enough in Windows
[17:36] <davmor2> gord: geany ftw :D
[17:36] <awilkins> (only a few things, like IIS and SSH support in win32 environments)
[17:38] <awilkins> What I've really been craving is a good Debian packaging plugin for Eclipse
[17:38] <awilkins> It can't be that hard... have a "source" object and "package output" objects and fill in the forms for them...
[17:38] <gord> davmor2, vim ftw :P
[17:39] <awilkins> Run lintian over it at the end and present the problems in the Eclipse problems list
[17:39] <davmor2> gord: if you're going down that path nano ftw!
[17:39] <gord> davmor2, don't be ridiculous :P
[17:40] <gord> nano is that horrible editor that makes my documents be peppered with :w all over the place
[17:40] <awilkins> Is it just me or is there little impetus to make Debian packaging easier because it's perceived as a badge of honour to have wrangled your way though the pain?
[17:40] <awilkins> Or is it that if the bar was lowered, undesirables and bad packaging would be the result?
[17:40] <gord> i think its more that once you have got through the pain, the tools work very simply, very easy to understand and use. so the itch does not need scratching
[17:41] <davmor2> gord: well stop trying to write out from it in vim terms then :P
[17:41] <gord> *never*
[17:42] <awilkins> It's things like the answer to the question : "By default, the upstream source package sets a prefix of /usr/local ; what is the standard mechanism for setting this to /usr in the debian packaging method?"
[17:46] <awilkins> Apparently the answer is that dh_auto_configure does it for you
[17:49] <ali1234> debian packaging is awful
[17:49] <ali1234> but at least it isn't rpm
[17:49] <ali1234> and in theory the tools are simple and easy to use
[17:50] <ali1234> but in the majority of cases they don't do what you need and every package that is more complicated that hello world ends up with many nasty hacks in the rules file
[17:50] <ali1234> and then you end up with packages that only build from the source once, then you have to rm -rf the whole thing and start again
[17:51] <ali1234> such as Qt for example, which takes about an hour to build the first time
[17:51] <awilkins> Reading both the Ubuntu debian packaging guide and the Debian maintainers guide has so far failed to enable me to produce a working set of packages for the thing I am packaging. It's easy enough to install it with some hacks like moving the JNI libraries to the right folder manually afterwards... but still, I'd prefer to be able to just add my PPA and apt-get it
[17:52] <ali1234> you just put the copy command into rules... = a nasty hack
[17:52] <ali1234> but it will work
[17:52] <awilkins> Now I thought that was what the various *.install files were for
[17:53] <ali1234> well it depends what you need it to do
[17:53] <awilkins> I just want it to put one library in /usr/lib/jni instead of /usr/lib
[17:53] <ali1234> so you just make sure it's at that location inside the deb
[17:54] <ali1234> by moving it before you create the deb
[18:12] <directhex> both are valid approaches
[18:12] <directhex> i'd say using debian/install is better
[18:21] <awilkins> I agree
[18:21] <awilkins> It keeps hackishness and patching the original sources to a minimum
[19:09] <daubers> Evening
[19:23] <dwatkins> hi daubers
[19:24] <zleap> hello
[19:24] <zleap> upgrade to 11.10 seems to have gone very well
[20:57] <daubers> \o/
[20:57] <daubers> I'd forgotten how amazing Back to the Future was
[20:58] <brobostigon> :)
[20:59] <daubers> Ubuntu-UK: Where we're going, we don't need roads.
[21:02] <daubers> \o/
[21:02] <daubers> Today has been a good day :)
[21:03] <AlanBell> do you have a fuse filesystem?
[21:03] <daubers> Got my Filesystem to work (few bugs left, but it works \o/), had chinese for free AND found Back to the Future Trilogy on DVD for £6
[21:03] <daubers> AlanBell: Yes indeedy :)
[21:03] <AlanBell> I am a bit flummoxed by the need to know the filesize before it is opened
[21:03] <daubers> You're doing this in python still?
[21:03] <AlanBell> yeah
[21:04] <daubers> Which example did you use? NullFS or xmp.py?
[21:04] <AlanBell> hello.py
[21:04] <daubers> ah
[21:04] <AlanBell> and I looked at nullfs (yo dawg, we heard you liked filesystems)
[21:05] <AlanBell> and xmp too, but I was just playing with hello.py
[21:05] <daubers> I started with xmp, and used that as a base. But I don't need to interact with files, which makes it easier (just change the path as it passes through)
[21:06] <AlanBell> it looks like if getattr says the file is 5 bytes long then all it will return is 5 bytes
[21:06] <AlanBell> even if read tries to return "Hello World" all that gets read is "Hello"
[21:07] <AlanBell> what I want to do is a fuse filesystem for openERP
[21:07] <AlanBell> so you would get a directory of invoices, one of purchase orders etc etc
[21:07] <daubers> can you not just calculate the size from the data you have?
[21:07] <AlanBell> they would all look like PDF files, and you can open them, but they don't really exist until you open them and it kicks of the report engine on the server to generate the PDF
[21:08] <AlanBell> nope, because they don't exist until it plugs the fields into an ODT file then spawns libreoffice headless to make a PDF
[21:08] <daubers> can you not treat them as softlinks? or do softlinks pass through the size?
[21:09] <AlanBell> I have read some stuff about treating dynamic files as FIFO objects, but I have no idea how to do that
[21:09] <daubers> If you can figure out how to treat them as softlinks then it should work. A link has size "st_size=100"
[21:10] <daubers> also..... are you creating a file class?
[21:11] <daubers> You might get away with doing it in there?
[21:13] <AlanBell> I have not really got very far, just trying to get all the pieces together so I can assemble them
[21:14] <daubers> Fair enough :) It's quite fun when you get into it
[21:14] <daubers> stackexchange thing on fifo's http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1430446/create-a-temporary-fifo-named-pipe-in-python
[21:16] <AlanBell> hmm, that is how to make one, but not how to pretend to be one in fuse :)
[21:18] <daubers> heh :) Do you not just make one and subclass it's read/write stuff or somesuch?
[21:19] <AlanBell> maybe if getattr returns the right size before read gets called
[21:20] <AlanBell> dunno the sequence of calls quite
[21:22] <daubers> If you make a file class, the file is opened in the init, and then you can control the read/write calls
[21:23] <daubers> Don't think that was in nullfs, but is definatley in xmp
[21:28] <AlanBell> hmm, still fgetattr has to return a size at some stage
[21:32] <Seeker`> Daviey: are you the portable paper friend?
[21:33] <Daviey> Seeker`: indeed
[21:33] <Seeker`> \o/
[21:33] <Seeker`> its the beard that gives you away
[21:35] <Daviey> heh
[21:36] <Seeker`> what  can I do with my 10 points?
[21:37] <Daviey> They are worth 0.001 bitcoins.. so you could sell them
[21:38]  * daubers waits for quickly to install
[21:38] <Seeker`> :O ZOMGWOW
[21:39] <mattt> evening evening
[21:42] <daubers> Other than "They're all terrible" does anyone have any opinions on forum software these days?
[21:42] <daubers> Probably going to end up going down the phpbb route by the look of it
[21:43] <popey> ubuntu uses vbulletin
[21:43] <popey> phpbb has a reputation...
[21:44] <daubers> I know, vbulletin costs £lots
[21:44] <popey> does it?
[21:45] <daubers> It's like $200
[21:45] <daubers> https://www.vbulletin.com/
[21:45] <popey> is that a lot?
[21:45] <daubers> For an organisation that is not for profit and has no money, yes :)
[21:46] <daubers> (this is for the hackspace)
[21:46]  * daubers considers £lots to be > ~£45-50
[21:46] <daubers> skyrim is lots :(
[21:47] <daubers> My options seem to be phpbb, yabb or Simple Machines
[21:49] <daubers> arduino seem to use SMF
[21:54] <directhex> dotnetnuke!
[21:55] <daubers> heh :)
[21:55] <daubers> c# or vb?
[21:55] <ali1234> write your own in turbopascal
[21:55] <directhex> daubers: i assume it'd work, dunno if it's any good. and vb is a horrible language for perverts
[21:56] <directhex> oh, did i remember to upload vb.net to sid? i don't think i did
[22:01] <Daviey> daubers: $200 really isn't very much... if they are still bootstrapping, they should use hosted forums or mailing list... when they have the userbase, ask for donations... doesn't take many people giving $10 to reach the target :)
[22:01]  * jutnux pokes daubers
[22:02] <popey> ooo turbopascal
[22:02] <popey> those were the days
[22:05] <Myrtti> I wrote the snake game
[22:05] <daubers> Daviey: We're still trying to cover the cost of the building.... Andy's very kindly given us a VPS for free so I'd like to put it in there
[22:07] <daubers> Daviey: Might give SMF a go for now, and then look at moving to vbulletin at a later date
[22:08] <daubers> I'd rather spend that $200 on a new tube for the laser cutter rather than some forum software
[22:34] <popey> oooh, snow
[22:34] <ubuntubhoy> where ?
[22:34] <popey> on tv
[22:34] <ubuntubhoy> it can stay there
[22:35] <popey> hah
[22:36] <jutnux> Howdy all.
[22:37]  * daubers is supposedly driving to bolton tomorrow...
[22:39] <popey> bolt on
[22:40] <daubers> Might go watch my younger brother do a faclonry display on the way or on the way back
[22:41] <mgdm> nice
[22:51]  * daubers heads to bed
[22:51] <daubers> night all
[22:59] <popey> excellent plan
[23:11] <jutnux> Adios
[23:12] <jutnux> I appear to be 20 minutes late