[00:03] oh look [00:03] it's a wild ivanka === jamieb is now known as ILickMyKnuckles === Lcawtez is now known as Lcawte === ILickMyKnuckles is now known as workfail === workfail is now known as ILickMyKnuckles [00:21] ali1234: just set up my server so that I have apache for my PHP stuff, and nginx to serve the large static files :D [02:56] Myrtti: only sometimes. [07:15] [Jono Bacon] From Old To New Python GTK - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/24/from-old-to-new-python-gtk/ === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [08:11] morning all [08:11] hiya MooDoo [08:11] @_ [08:11] :) [08:12] hi Pendulum who should be asleep [08:18] AlanBell: http://bartaz.github.com/impress.js [08:18] via Daviey [08:22] nice [08:26] Morning [08:35] AlanBell: Just noticed this, quite interesting http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/news/extremadura-move-all-its-40000-desktops-open-source [08:59] morning all - a bit damp out today [09:00] * TheOpenSourcerer goes to check if any of his seed has germinated yet. [09:03] chili planting time already! [09:03] morning all [09:06] danfish: Indeed. Gone a bit mad this year: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/01/21/ot-chillies-2012/ [09:06] TheOpenSourcerer: It's not Hemp is it heh [09:07] smittix: Nope something far stronger than that! [09:12] TheOpenSourcerer: Ghost Chillies? [09:13] yeah, I have 4 Naga (Ghost type) varieties. [09:13] TheOpenSourcerer: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Naga ? [09:14] Black Naga, Bhut Jolokia, Dorset Naga & Naga Viper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhut_Jolokia_chili_pepper [09:14] "While all naga corpses convey poison resistance when eaten, black naga corpses are also acidic." [09:15] lol [09:15] TheOpenSourcerer: yikes! I've not even ordered seed yet! [09:15] Ahh. [09:16] I'm a week earlier this year, but have for the last 2 years started them at the end of Jan. [09:16] Sown in pots some of the seed will take 4-6 weeks even to germinate. [09:17] I am going to concentrate a bit more on crops in open ground this year [09:17] Using my "how-I-used-grow-hemp" technique I'm getting good germination rates in around 1 - 2 weeks. [09:17] ah, home grown hemp for clothing of course ;) [09:17] Why is it that all people I know who grow pepper got started with hemp first [09:17] ;) [09:17] Already planted Garlic and Eschalotte in Nov. And just planted some Jermor (banana shallots this weekend. [09:18] First early spuds are chitting too :-) [09:20] Along with the Naga, I also have the Trinidad Scorpion "Butch T" this year - The current world's hottest chilli. :-D [09:22] adverse weather conditions [09:23] TheOpenSourcerer: Nice, I need to get round to planting some. [09:32] gtk3 question (as it's a PITA): How can I force a gtk window to refresh? I've been using a while Gtk.events_pending(): Gtk.main_iteration() type loop, but this seems to randomly not work at times. I remember seeing something about another way of doing this? Does anyone have a clue what that might have been? [09:32] daubers: ask aquarius, he's a GTK Guru [09:33] G'mornin' all! :D [09:33] Good morning! [09:33] GTK makes me a sad panda sometimes [09:34] daubers: what with the gothic make-up and everything? [09:34] Hah! No [09:37] hi folks [09:38] bah, add a print to it and it works [09:38] haha "hastebin.com" - pastebin without the rest of the UI [09:58] aloha [09:58] Morning :) [10:10] morning lovelies [10:10] goog morning [10:10] or good [10:10] Hi christel ⢁) [10:11] hai hai :D [10:11] I'm not sure I like this being awake in the morning nonsense [10:11] haha [10:12] morning guys - anyone used Synology NAS Solutions? I want a low-maintenance device rather than building something myself - as I'm not here at Linux Admin. [10:12] everything time i use google docs i get frustrated. just have to keep reminding myself, at least its not open office [10:13] gord: amen to that [10:13] are google docs that bad? [10:13] Use LaTeX ;) [10:13] google docs would be fine, if it wasn't glitchy [10:14] i've had it suddenly just insert the html of the google docs page into the document before [10:14] maybe that's a feature [10:14] gord: google hates you [10:14] up until recently using it with a corporate account when you also had a gmail account was a nightmare too. had to use an entirely different browser [10:15] Just use Emacs org mode [10:19] GAHHHHHHHHHHHH [10:19] GTK sucks [10:20] Why the hell doesn't it tell me if the mainloop can't run? === andylock1an is now known as andylockran [10:20] why wouldn't the mainloop be able to run? [10:20] if its being blocked by something, then there isn't much it can do about it [10:20] I don't know? It just stops responding! [10:21] well see there is your problem, something else is blocking the mainloop from running, the mainloop code can't get called because of this other thing. the other thing is your problem, not the mainloop [10:21] I'd also love to know why it doesn't redraw things a lot of the time [10:22] it sounds like a poorly constructed application ;) [10:22] :p [10:22] Would be less poorly constructed if there where some adequate docs for gtk3 [10:23] well gtk2 applies in most cases, apart from the nitty gritty stuff [10:23] the actually drawing code for example [10:23] which seems to be where I get all the stupid issues [10:24] I'd love to know what gtk_list_store_iter_next: assertion `priv->stamp == iter->stamp' failed means too [10:26] sounds like you are modifying a list model whist iterating over it (bad idea) [10:26] Urgh [10:26] Nothings ever simple is it :) [10:27] So is the recommended way to create a second list without the thing you want to remove in it and then switch them? [10:28] its been a loooooooooong time (years unfortunately :((( ) since i worked with gtk list models, but iirc, you should be able to remove by iter [10:29] so find the iter, break out, remove by iter [10:30] * daubers waits to see if that broke anything else [10:30] \o/ [10:30] something else broke [10:31] gord: Ta, shall have to shout at it some more [10:32] np. i kinda miss gtk programming, a lot of people don't really know how to use it anymore and gnome has everyone all confused. you can make really nice stuff with it if you bend it to your will ;) [10:33] turns out its my loops that wait for stuff to redraw [10:34] ah ;) mainloops don't like you doing that - use signals and timeouts [10:34] gord: yeah [10:34] gord: Can't find any docs on them annoyingly. Was trying too earlier [10:34] gord: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/lysdr.jpg [10:35] gord: https://code.launchpad.net/~daubers/+junk/rdghackauthbot is what I'm screaming at today [10:36] * MartijnVdS would never accept commit messages like that ;) [10:36] MartijnVdS: The "moar stuffs" message? [10:37] daubers: and "arduino stuff" [10:37] "more work" [10:37] "a few more functions added" [10:37] MartijnVdS: You can tell I'm doing this for me can't you :) [10:37] :) [10:37] argh [10:37] why can't I get into the habit of using 'less' instead of 'more'? [10:37] alias more=less [10:37] Laney: because less is more? [10:38] Laney: because you're old and inflexible? [10:38] i don't want to fix it with an alias that has to be done on every machine [10:38] Laney: sudo apt-get install most [10:38] daubers: if less is more then i shouldn't have any trouble transitioning :( [10:38] jpds: hah [10:40] !info most [10:40] most (source: most): Pager program similar to more and less. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.0a-2 (oneiric), package size 46 kB, installed size 168 kB [10:40] is it good? [10:40] !good [10:40] Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots. [10:41] AlanBell: Only one way to find out. [10:43] it *is* good :) [10:43] alias less=most [10:45] it doesn't let me press end to go to the end [10:48] You know when you press up in gnome-terminal? Where are the previously run commands stored? [10:48] kvarley: ~/.bash_history [10:49] LjL: thanks [10:49] kvarley: you can also type "history" to see the list, or use ctrl+r to search in the list on the fly [10:49] well, $HISTFILE [10:50] kvarley: echo $HISTFILE [10:50] Not all of us use bash. [10:51] another shell might not even have history at all, i talk about the defaults, especially when someone doesn't specify and says something like "press up in gnome-terminal" [10:52] +1 [10:53] default --- anything that is not your fault. ;) [10:56] I am using bash. =] I'm yet to try zsh [10:57] good morning everyone. [11:01] urgh..... realised that to make this work I need to get my mqtt stuff into a function I that GTK can call while it's idle instead of a running it as a thread [11:08] i notice redhat are making more bugs "private" so that those without paid support cannot see the bugs or KB articles referred to [11:09] \o/ fixed it [11:09] morning all [11:10] hmm, firefox 10 seems to have opengl disabled on 12.04 [11:10] maybe just my laptop [11:10] gord: Ta muchly for the tips. Stripped out all the threads and done it as idle functions now :) [11:10] about:support under graphics I have GPU Accelerated Windows 0/1 [11:10] ☹ [11:11] cd /usr/src/ [11:12] popey: is it not a plugin? [11:13] dont think so [11:13] oops [11:13] hmm, mozilla blog post says they dont plan on enabling it on linux [11:16] i enabled it on firefox once, wasn't any faster and made bad stuff happen to the rest of the stack, not a fun experience [11:20] hah [11:20] i'm getting "kernel: swapper: page allocation failure. order:1, mode:0x20". apparently i'm running out of low memory - anyone understand what's happening? [11:21] oh well look at that, it just works in chrome [11:22] popey: the impress.js thing? [11:22] yeah [11:22] works for me in firefox on 12.04 [11:22] it works [11:22] way smoother in chrome [11:22] but 1fps [11:22] its doing software rendering in frefox [11:35] Doh [11:36] Autojoin :/ [11:38] hmmmmmmm tis a happy day now that lp has reordering on bugs especially the age fields :D [11:39] Cool. I remember listening to the uds stream about that [11:42] popey: is that using the latest X? today had an update for it [11:43] * czajkowski hugs davmor2 Good day! [11:43] davmor2: its not x, its firefox [11:43] AIUI [11:43] czajkowski: proddington prod [11:44] popey: no just checking that it was a driver issue with the latest X or something [11:44] dont think so [11:47] what's the URL I'll try it here I have a couple of precise boxes knocking about [11:47] as you do [11:47] http://github.com/bartaz/impress.js [11:48] popey: and have you tried it in another browser epiphany or chrome/chromium or rekonq [11:49] yes, as I said, it works fine in chrome [11:51] popey: it's working but not as smoothly as it could I think, I'm using the demo at, bartaz.github.com/impress.js/#/bored [11:51] yes, that is the issue [11:52] 3d rendering is disabled in firefox by default on linux [11:52] (it seems) [11:52] which ff you using popey? [11:53] 10 [11:53] in 12.04 [11:53] Popey: did you see my question re screencast? [11:54] i didnt [11:54] You mentioned somewhere that nvidia is choppy and nouveax is faster [11:54] hmm [11:54] maybe in the past.. [11:54] But you did a screencast of minecraft [11:55] i have multiple machines, one nvidia, one intel [11:55] Which crashes everytime wth nouveau for me [11:55] most recently minecraft ones have been on intel i7 [11:55] popey: about:config see if you can enable it [11:55] davmor2: i have [11:55] Minecraft works on intel now? [11:55] popey: any better now? [11:56] yeah, sucks a bundle on this precise box [11:56] davmor2: no, [11:56] Anyway, the situation is still poor re screencasting and nvidia [11:56] ali12345: works okay, better than it did, but still has graphical artifacts here ansd there [11:56] yeah [11:57] kazam is coming along nicely, but still has issues with flicker and that stupid drop shadow [11:57] Yeah its a driver issue though imo [11:58] i spoke to the kernel guys and they laughed at me [11:58] 'oh, you bought intel on a tick ,you should have waited for a tock' [11:58] ☹ [11:58] Never had much trouble wth the drop shadows tho [11:58] so the stupid dropshadow, is that part of the background? [11:58] no [11:58] its drawn on top of everything [11:58] it's a png file [11:58] I ususally rm it [11:59] looks like a stacking bug [11:59] Someone finally fixed the interlace bug in intel driver [12:00] Now that nobody has an interlace tv any more [12:00] it looks daft when you zoom in to the desktop and the shadow gets detached from the top bar [12:00] * AlanBell pops to the shops to get a haggis [12:00] How do you zoom? enable ezoom in ccsm? [12:01] AlanBell: did you order a male or female haggis? [12:03] danfish: England V Ireland Saturday 17th March 2012 17:00 Gonna be a epic way to celebrte paddys day! [12:09] czajkowski: absolutely! Don't be too upset when we beat your lot to a pulp ;) [12:15] danfish: see folks said that and were very upset last year in the pub [12:19] hehe - I wonder who you are talking about :) [12:20] poor TheOpenSourcerer [12:20] * TheOpenSourcerer is being completely silent on the matter. [12:57] i wonder why google don't wanna open source picasa? [12:57] such a pain getting v3.9 installed [12:57] maybe they do, but can't [12:58] yeah, would be nice to hear something about it from the goog [12:58] TheOpenSourcerer: danfish any predictions for the coming season? [12:59] (12:20:32) ***TheOpenSourcerer is being completely silent on the matter. [12:59] :) [12:59] ok [13:04] * daubers predicts a large number of people will get grumpy at a large number of other people [13:04] Though that applies to any sport really [13:10] danfish: the more deadly female kind [13:10] also found out some fun gender related information about sleeping bags [13:10] I was looking in Millets for some kids sleeping bags and asked what the difference was between the model 200 and 200w [13:11] turns out the 200w is a womens sleeping bag - which I expressed some surprise that there was any difference. You can also get them in "left" and "right" which is the side the zip goes [13:12] and you can zip together a 200w to another 200w, or a 200 to a 200, but you can't zip a 200 to a 200w [13:12] whats the difference? [13:13] gender of the zip? [13:14] the 200w is 20cm shorter [13:14] the 200w steals the covers from the 200 in the night [13:14] hehe [13:14] and denies it [13:15] left and right atleast in Finnish ones mean that if you've got one each you can zip them together and make one big *double* sleeping bag [13:15] Myrtti: yes, thats what it means on these ones [13:21] ^^--^^ Ewww. Can't imagine why anyone would want to do *that* [13:22] * AlanBell draws TheOpenSourcerer a diagram [13:23] Heh [13:23] imagebin it :-) AlanBell [13:29] tent has pole in the middle :/ [13:35] Anybody know of any applications to test the performance of flash memory? (microSDHC, etc) [13:37] double sleeping bag is like sleeping with a 5ft hot water bottle = nice [13:50] czajkowski: what with a 24-6 win to England :P [13:50] davmor2: :) [13:50] davmor2: go see pm :) [13:50] and behave [13:51] czajkowski: NO! :P [13:51] kvarley, I wouldn't test write performance.... could shorten the life of it [13:59] afternoon all [14:08] https://plus.google.com/112811220238447511854/posts/XWYJQhYATdG *cough* http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ *cough* [14:09] such a bad *cough* today - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus *splutter* [14:09] * AlanBell prepares to slap gord if it doesn't work with orca [14:09] but it does look pretty [14:10] i may have completely forgotten about orca ;) i'll make sure its fixed and talk to the qa guys about integrating orca into the tests [14:10] Great fun - I've been tasked with "work out something for the team to do for a day that can be used to show an iterative agile process. Something like a paper airplane, but something that the whole team can work on). [14:10] Anyone have any ideas? === Mez_ is now known as Mez [14:10] * AlanBell gets out a haddock and slaps gord round the face with it [14:11] it looks like a great idea gord, I can see this being quite popular [14:12] AlanBell, gord: I can see people who hate unity crying into hankies now, me on the other hand I think it's cool :) [14:12] lol at the windows adverts in the video [14:14] ooooh to hudCLI [14:16] gord: so when is it landing in precise? [14:16] AlanBell, next unity release is next week, so if everything goes well, then [14:17] gord: you work on funky stuff [14:19] That looks quite cool. Might make unity more [ahem] usable. I especially liked the hud-cli. Neat [14:20] lol "EMACS users just grunt and… nevermind" [14:22] Mez: spaghtti and marshmellows [14:23] Myrtti: not sure that'd take them all dya. [14:23] Mez: real life Angry Birds then [14:24] Not too sure the RSPCA would like that :P [14:24] "build the best trebuchet you can. success of the team is measured by the strength, beauty and performance of the device in use of hurling stuffed Angry Birds toys" [14:25] available material: wooden sticks, rubberbands, hot glue, sellotape, paperclips [14:25] etc. [14:25] and number of pigs destroyed [14:25] or distance of birds traveled [14:25] YeahYeah - thats where your first comment had me going. Nott too sure whether we'd have the materials ... but could be done. [14:25] * bigcalm expects a live demonstration from gord on Thursday :P [14:26] gord: when are you coming down here [14:26] bigcalm: it's for friday. [14:26] It's actually more for the product owner than anyone else. [14:26] czajkowski, here? where is here? [14:26] see I'm getting the lingo right, everything north of London is NORTH :) [14:26] gord: London [14:26] gord, what triggers the hud to appear? I would like it to be when I cough in a particular way. [14:26] right beside the London eye [14:27] czajkowski, ah, no no. not if i can avoid it. trip to london means 5am get up and not home till 9pm [14:27] TheOpenSourcerer: if your cough is enough to press the alt button then I think it should work [14:27] TheOpenSourcerer, tapping alt [14:27] gord: stay over! [14:29] gord: when the 350MB of updates today installs I should have the hud from the PPA [14:29] just doing an update [14:29] may not have been wise considering I want a working machine in 30 mins [14:30] 14:26:20 < czajkowski> gord: when are you coming down here [14:30] it's "up here", always 'up' towards the capital city [14:30] even if you're going north [14:31] very confusing [14:31] :/ [14:31] heh [14:31] * czajkowski goes back to her books to get the lingo right [14:31] * gord questions popey's reasoning [14:31] s/north/south/ [14:31] :D [14:32] anyone going to FOSDEM - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2012 [14:35] * oimon reads shuttleworths post. unity is becoming a concept OS! [14:37] interestingly not a tablet friendly idea. [14:37] it is perhaps a fairly significant thing to be dropping into the LTS at this stage [14:37] oimon, well, until voice recognition is hooked up [14:37] I'm just looking at this http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus [14:38] gord: is that the plan (it would work quite well actually) [14:38] i like this idea though, rather clever [14:39] I'm quite intrigued to try the hud thing. Think it's one of those things that looks a bit odd till you try it [14:39] AlanBell, yeah, eventually. not soon [14:39] does it offer a way to explore a program's capabilities? [14:40] it has the menu content already, that could be made into a grammar table on the fly for pocketsphinx to look at [14:40] does it make heavy use of zeitgeist? [14:41] what if you don't know the name of the app? [14:42] oimon, doesn't touch zeitgeist, what would zeitgeist have to use? [14:42] AlanBell: so the future of the Unity GUI is in fact the command line? [14:42] ☺ [14:42] so it seems gordonjcp [14:42] * hamitron moves to xterm [14:42] hamitron: hud isnt for apps, its for menus [14:43] menus? [14:43] yes, menus [14:43] how you get the menu with apps? [14:43] * popey notes hamitron probably hasn't read the article [14:43] I have sort of [14:43] ok, I'll stop talking till you have [14:44] heh [14:45] 38 [14:45] BAH! [14:45] so what would you type to insert a spreadsheet? [14:45] popey, I mis-read the first time [14:45] ;/ [14:45] gord: when does that hit 12.04? [14:46] davmor2, next week [14:46] gord: have you looked at creating jsgf files from the menu content? [14:46] gord: you can give me a demo on thursday then :) [14:47] the worst thing I can see about 12.04, too many changes from 10.04 for users to get used to [14:47] AlanBell, nope, but you should talk to tedg if you have ideas there [14:47] be almost like the jump I had from Windows 2000 to Windows 7 [14:48] hamitron: well they still have a year to think about it [14:48] true [14:48] just thinking, staff training, etc [14:49] like, I still hate the new windows 7 menu [14:49] xfce is similar to gnome2 in 10.04 [14:49] not too hard to include that option [14:49] you can set the windows 7 menu to be "classic" can't you? [14:50] i think i remember doing that [14:50] gord, no [14:50] you could in vista [14:50] ah [14:50] tbh, it wasn't such a big jump from XP [14:50] but I was from 2000 [14:51] and I'm probably the sort of person who doesn't like change so much [14:51] :) [14:51] i can imagine - though weirdly xp -> vista is a larger jump than xp->7 [14:51] I never used XP much [14:52] when i did, set it on classic menu [14:52] I will ofc try the next ubuntu [14:52] but just got a bad feeling, I won't be happy [14:53] dunno how unity works yet [14:53] suppose could maybe use LXDE [14:54] lxde is quite like winxp [14:54] it is? [14:54] I'd compared it more to win95 [14:54] the worst thing I can see about 12.04, too many changes from 10.04 for users to get used to <-- i am dreading this for my users [14:56] yeh, be worse when you are in charge of them [14:56] at least I can tweak stuff for personal use [14:56] mind you , when i upgraded my users to RHEL6, nobody complained about KDE4 [14:57] and it's the buggy 4.3.x version they use [14:57] how does Unity compare to Gnome2 and KDE? [14:57] is it easy to "pick up"? [14:57] hamitron: where have you been? [14:57] for newbs, totally [14:57] try a live cd :D [14:57] in my testing, unity has been easier for gnome2 users than shell [14:58] live cd are a large download [14:58] but the HUD thing changes matters [14:58] ;/ [14:58] most machines here had a vista license, so just moved them onto that [14:59] so no rush [15:00] i've never seen a machine than vista works on [15:00] seems ok so far [15:00] except my dad's laptop. all others slow to crawl and disk is thrashing, and is unusable (literally) [15:01] oh dear [15:01] well, ok so far [15:01] :) [15:01] my main worry, they only have 2Gb ram [15:04] gord: I see in that HUD screenshot, the normal menu isn't there - there is room for it, did you decide not to present it in the top bar of the HUD (or HUM - Head Up Menu) when you open it? [15:06] awilkins, yeah its not present when you have the hud open, but its not removed or anything. its the same design as the dash, when you open the dash, the panel goes transparent and the menu vanishes [15:07] gord: if you hold alt, does the "real" menu appear (the current behaviour). Not that I care, I mouse menus, but I know people who are freakish about keyboard usage of menus [15:09] awilkins, ah thats a good point, right now no its not opening the menu, but thats my bug :) will fix [15:15] [Laura Czajkowski] FOSDEM 2012 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/01/24/fosdem-2012/ [15:16] bigcalm: you saddo ;) brain the size of a planet and you make it connect to you phone ;) [15:16] A sign that I'm getting old: Twenty Twelve sounds like a futuristic date even now [15:16]