[00:03] <Myrtti> oh look
[00:03] <Myrtti> it's a wild ivanka
[00:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: just set up my server so that I have apache for my PHP stuff, and nginx to serve the large static files :D
[02:56] <ivanka> Myrtti: only sometimes.
[07:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] From Old To New Python GTK - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/24/from-old-to-new-python-gtk/
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:11] <Pendulum> hiya MooDoo
[08:11] <MooDoo> @_
[08:11] <MooDoo> :)
[08:12] <AlanBell> hi Pendulum who should be asleep
[08:18] <popey> AlanBell: http://bartaz.github.com/impress.js
[08:18] <popey> via Daviey
[08:22] <AlanBell> nice
[08:26] <daubers> Morning
[08:35] <DJones> AlanBell: Just noticed this, quite interesting http://joinup.ec.europa.eu/news/extremadura-move-all-its-40000-desktops-open-source
[08:59] <danfish> morning all - a bit damp out today
[09:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer goes to check if any of his seed has germinated yet.
[09:03] <danfish> chili planting time already!
[09:03] <smittix> morning all
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Indeed. Gone a bit mad this year: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/01/21/ot-chillies-2012/
[09:06] <smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: It's not Hemp is it heh
[09:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> smittix: Nope something far stronger than that!
[09:12] <smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: Ghost Chillies?
[09:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah, I have 4 Naga (Ghost type) varieties.
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Naga ?
[09:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Black Naga, Bhut Jolokia, Dorset Naga & Naga Viper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhut_Jolokia_chili_pepper
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> "While all naga corpses convey poison resistance when eaten, black naga corpses are also acidic."
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:15] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: yikes! I've not even ordered seed yet!
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh.
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm a week earlier this year, but have for the last 2 years started them at the end of Jan.
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sown in pots some of the seed will take 4-6 weeks even to germinate.
[09:17] <danfish> I am going to concentrate a bit more on crops in open ground this year
[09:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Using my "how-I-used-grow-hemp" technique I'm getting good germination rates in around 1 - 2 weeks.
[09:17] <danfish> ah, home grown hemp for clothing of course ;)
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> Why is it that all people I know who grow pepper got started with hemp first
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[09:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Already planted Garlic and Eschalotte in Nov. And just planted some Jermor (banana shallots this weekend.
[09:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> First early spuds are chitting too :-)
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Along with the Naga, I also have the Trinidad Scorpion "Butch T" this year - The current world's hottest chilli. :-D
[09:22] <oimon> adverse weather conditions
[09:23] <smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: Nice, I need to get round to planting some.
[09:32] <daubers> gtk3 question (as it's a PITA): How can I force a gtk window to refresh? I've been using a while Gtk.events_pending(): Gtk.main_iteration() type loop, but this seems to randomly not work at times. I remember seeing something about another way of doing this? Does anyone have a clue what that might have been?
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> daubers: ask aquarius, he's a GTK Guru
[09:33] <JamesTait> G'mornin' all! :D
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> Good morning!
[09:33] <daubers> GTK makes me a sad panda sometimes
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> daubers: what with the gothic make-up and everything?
[09:34] <daubers> Hah! No
[09:37] <dwatkins> hi folks
[09:38] <daubers> bah, add a print to it and it works
[09:38] <dwatkins> haha "hastebin.com" - pastebin without the rest of the UI
[09:58] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:58] <bigcalm> Morning :)
[10:10] <christel> morning lovelies
[10:10] <occupy64k> goog morning
[10:10] <occupy64k> or good
[10:10] <funkyHat> Hi christel ⢁)
[10:11] <christel> hai hai :D
[10:11] <funkyHat> I'm not sure I like this being awake in the morning nonsense
[10:11] <christel> haha
[10:12] <andylock1an> morning guys - anyone used Synology NAS Solutions? I want a low-maintenance device rather than building something myself - as I'm not here at Linux Admin.
[10:12] <gord> everything time i use google docs i get frustrated. just have to keep reminding myself, at least its not open office
[10:13] <andylock1an> gord: amen to that
[10:13] <occupy64k> are google docs that bad?
[10:13] <funkyHat> Use LaTeX ;)
[10:13] <gord> google docs would be fine, if it wasn't glitchy
[10:14] <gord> i've had it suddenly just insert the html of the google docs page into the document before
[10:14] <occupy64k> maybe that's a feature
[10:14] <funkyHat> gord: google hates you
[10:14] <gord> up until recently using it with a corporate account when you also had a gmail account was a nightmare too. had to use an entirely different browser
[10:15] <occupy64k> Just use Emacs org mode
[10:19] <daubers> GAHHHHHHHHHHHH
[10:19] <daubers> GTK sucks
[10:20] <daubers> Why the hell doesn't it tell me if the mainloop can't run?
[10:20] <gord> why wouldn't the mainloop be able to run?
[10:20] <gord> if its being blocked by something, then there isn't much it can do about it
[10:20] <daubers> I don't know? It just stops responding!
[10:21] <gord> well see there is your problem, something else is blocking the mainloop from running, the mainloop code can't get called because of this other thing. the other thing is your problem, not the mainloop
[10:21] <daubers> I'd also love to know why it doesn't redraw things a lot of the time
[10:22] <gord> it sounds like a poorly constructed application ;)
[10:22] <daubers> :p
[10:22] <daubers> Would be less poorly constructed if there where some adequate docs for gtk3
[10:23] <gord> well gtk2 applies in most cases, apart from the nitty gritty stuff
[10:23] <gord> the actually drawing code for example
[10:23] <daubers> which  seems to be where I get all the stupid issues
[10:24] <daubers> I'd love to know what gtk_list_store_iter_next: assertion `priv->stamp == iter->stamp' failed means too
[10:26] <gord> sounds like you are modifying a list model whist iterating over it (bad idea)
[10:26] <daubers> Urgh
[10:26] <daubers> Nothings ever simple is it :)
[10:27] <daubers> So is the recommended way to create a second list without the thing you want to remove in it and then switch them?
[10:28] <gord> its been a loooooooooong time (years unfortunately :((( ) since i worked with gtk list models, but iirc, you should be able to remove by iter
[10:29] <gord> so find the iter, break out, remove by iter
[10:30]  * daubers waits to see if that broke anything else
[10:30] <daubers> \o/
[10:30] <daubers> something else broke
[10:31] <daubers> gord: Ta, shall have to shout at it some more
[10:32] <gord> np. i kinda miss gtk programming, a lot of people don't really know how to use it anymore and gnome has everyone all confused. you can make really nice stuff with it if you bend it to your will ;)
[10:33] <daubers> turns out its my loops that wait for stuff to redraw
[10:34] <gord> ah ;) mainloops don't like you doing that - use signals and timeouts
[10:34] <gordonjcp> gord: yeah
[10:34] <daubers> gord: Can't find any docs on them annoyingly. Was trying too earlier
[10:34] <gordonjcp> gord: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/lysdr.jpg
[10:35] <daubers> gord: https://code.launchpad.net/~daubers/+junk/rdghackauthbot is what I'm screaming at today
[10:36]  * MartijnVdS would never accept commit messages like that ;)
[10:36] <daubers> MartijnVdS: The "moar stuffs" message?
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> daubers: and "arduino stuff"
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> "more work"
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> "a few more functions added"
[10:37] <daubers> MartijnVdS: You can tell I'm doing this for me can't you :)
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> :)
[10:37] <Laney> argh
[10:37] <Laney> why can't I get into the habit of using 'less' instead of 'more'?
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> alias more=less
[10:37] <daubers> Laney: because less is more?
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> Laney: because you're old and inflexible?
[10:38] <Laney> i don't want to fix it with an alias that has to be done on every machine
[10:38] <jpds> Laney: sudo apt-get install most
[10:38] <Laney> daubers: if less is more then i shouldn't have any trouble transitioning :(
[10:38] <Laney> jpds: hah
[10:40] <AlanBell> !info most
[10:40] <AlanBell> is it good?
[10:40] <daubers> !good
[10:41] <jpds> AlanBell: Only one way to find out.
[10:43] <AlanBell> it *is* good :)
[10:43] <AlanBell> alias less=most
[10:45] <Laney> it doesn't let me press end to go to the end
[10:48] <kvarley> You know when you press up in gnome-terminal? Where are the previously run commands stored?
[10:48] <LjL> kvarley: ~/.bash_history
[10:49] <kvarley> LjL: thanks
[10:49] <LjL> kvarley: you can also type "history" to see the list, or use ctrl+r to search in the list on the fly
[10:49] <Laney> well, $HISTFILE
[10:50] <jpds> kvarley: echo $HISTFILE
[10:50] <jpds> Not all of us use bash.
[10:51] <LjL> another shell might not even have history at all, i talk about the defaults, especially when someone doesn't specify and says something like "press up in gnome-terminal"
[10:52] <popey> +1
[10:53] <jpds> default --- anything that is not your fault. ;)
[10:56] <kvarley> I am using bash. =] I'm yet to try zsh
[10:57] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:01] <daubers> urgh..... realised that to make this work I need to get my mqtt stuff into a function I that GTK can call while it's idle instead of a running it as a thread
[11:08] <oimon> i notice redhat are making more bugs "private" so that those without paid support cannot see the bugs or KB articles referred to
[11:09] <daubers> \o/ fixed it
[11:09] <davmor2> morning all
[11:10] <popey> hmm, firefox 10 seems to have opengl disabled on 12.04
[11:10] <popey> maybe just my laptop
[11:10] <daubers> gord: Ta muchly for the tips. Stripped out all the threads and done it as idle functions now :)
[11:10] <popey> about:support under graphics I have GPU Accelerated Windows 0/1
[11:10] <popey> ☹
[11:11] <danfish> cd /usr/src/
[11:12] <davmor2> popey: is it not a plugin?
[11:13] <popey> dont think so
[11:13] <danfish> oops
[11:13] <popey> hmm, mozilla blog post says they dont plan on enabling it on linux
[11:16] <gord> i enabled it on firefox once, wasn't any faster and made bad stuff happen to the rest of the stack, not a fun experience
[11:20] <popey> hah
[11:20] <oimon> i'm getting "kernel: swapper: page allocation failure. order:1, mode:0x20". apparently i'm running out of low memory - anyone understand what's happening?
[11:21] <popey> oh well look at that, it just works in chrome
[11:22] <AlanBell> popey: the impress.js thing?
[11:22] <popey> yeah
[11:22] <AlanBell> works for me in firefox on 12.04
[11:22] <popey> it works
[11:22] <AlanBell> way smoother in chrome
[11:22] <popey> but 1fps
[11:22] <popey> its doing software rendering in frefox
[11:35] <ali12345> Doh
[11:36] <ali12345> Autojoin :/
[11:38] <davmor2> hmmmmmmm tis a happy day now that lp has reordering on bugs especially the age fields :D
[11:39] <ali12345> Cool. I remember listening to the uds stream about that
[11:42] <davmor2> popey: is that using the latest X?  today had an update for it
[11:43]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 Good day! 
[11:43] <popey> davmor2: its not x, its firefox
[11:43] <popey> AIUI
[11:43] <davmor2> czajkowski: proddington prod
[11:44] <davmor2> popey: no just checking that it was a driver issue with the latest X or something
[11:44] <popey> dont think so
[11:47] <davmor2> what's the URL I'll try it here I have a couple of precise boxes knocking about
[11:47] <davmor2> as you do
[11:47] <popey> http://github.com/bartaz/impress.js
[11:48] <davmor2> popey: and have you tried it in another browser epiphany or chrome/chromium or rekonq
[11:49] <popey> yes, as I said, it works fine in chrome
[11:51] <davmor2> popey: it's working but not as smoothly as it could I think,  I'm using the demo at, bartaz.github.com/impress.js/#/bored
[11:51] <popey> yes, that is the issue
[11:52] <popey> 3d rendering is disabled in firefox by default on linux
[11:52] <popey> (it seems)
[11:52] <oimon> which ff you using popey?
[11:53] <popey> 10
[11:53] <popey> in 12.04
[11:53] <ali12345> Popey: did you see my question re screencast?
[11:54] <popey> i didnt
[11:54] <ali12345> You mentioned somewhere that nvidia is choppy and nouveax is faster
[11:54] <popey> hmm
[11:54] <popey> maybe in the past..
[11:54] <ali12345> But you did a screencast of minecraft
[11:55] <popey> i have multiple machines, one nvidia, one intel
[11:55] <ali12345> Which crashes everytime wth nouveau for me
[11:55] <popey> most recently minecraft ones have been on intel i7
[11:55] <davmor2> popey: about:config see if you can enable it
[11:55] <popey> davmor2: i have
[11:55] <ali12345> Minecraft works on intel now?
[11:55] <davmor2> popey: any better now?
[11:56] <oimon> yeah, sucks a bundle on this precise box
[11:56] <popey> davmor2: no,
[11:56] <ali12345> Anyway, the situation is still poor re screencasting and nvidia
[11:56] <popey> ali12345: works okay, better than it did, but still has graphical artifacts here ansd there
[11:56] <popey> yeah
[11:57] <popey> kazam is coming along nicely, but still has issues with flicker and that stupid drop shadow
[11:57] <ali12345> Yeah its a driver issue though imo
[11:58] <popey> i spoke to the kernel guys and they laughed at me
[11:58] <popey> 'oh, you bought intel on a tick ,you should have waited for a tock'
[11:58] <popey> ☹
[11:58] <ali12345> Never had much trouble wth the drop shadows tho
[11:58] <AlanBell> so the stupid dropshadow, is that part of the background?
[11:58] <popey> no
[11:58] <popey> its drawn on top of everything
[11:58] <popey> it's a png file
[11:58] <popey> I ususally rm it
[11:59] <popey> looks like a stacking bug
[11:59] <ali12345> Someone finally fixed the interlace bug in intel driver
[12:00] <ali12345> Now that nobody has an interlace tv any more
[12:00] <AlanBell> it looks daft when you zoom in to the desktop and the shadow gets detached from the top bar
[12:00]  * AlanBell pops to the shops to get a haggis
[12:00] <ali12345> How do you zoom? enable ezoom in ccsm?
[12:01] <danfish> AlanBell: did you order a male or female haggis?
[12:03] <czajkowski> danfish: England V Ireland Saturday 17th March 2012 17:00 Gonna be a epic way to celebrte paddys day!
[12:09] <danfish> czajkowski: absolutely! Don't be too upset when we beat your lot to a pulp ;)
[12:15] <czajkowski> danfish: see folks said that and were very upset last year in the pub
[12:19] <danfish> hehe - I wonder who you are talking about :)
[12:20] <czajkowski> poor TheOpenSourcerer
[12:20]  * TheOpenSourcerer is being completely silent on the matter.
[12:57] <oimon> i wonder why google don't wanna open source picasa?
[12:57] <oimon> such a pain getting v3.9 installed
[12:57] <popey> maybe they do, but can't
[12:58] <oimon> yeah, would be nice to hear something about it from the goog
[12:58] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: danfish any predictions for the coming season?
[12:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> (12:20:32) ***TheOpenSourcerer is being completely silent on the matter.
[12:59] <czajkowski> :)
[12:59] <czajkowski> ok
[13:04]  * daubers predicts a large number of people will get grumpy at a large number of other people
[13:04] <daubers> Though that applies to any sport really
[13:10] <AlanBell> danfish: the more deadly female kind
[13:10] <AlanBell> also found out some fun gender related information about sleeping bags
[13:10] <AlanBell> I was looking in Millets for some kids sleeping bags and asked what the difference was between the model 200 and 200w
[13:11] <AlanBell> turns out the 200w is a womens sleeping bag - which I expressed some surprise that there was any difference. You can also get them in "left" and "right" which is the side the zip goes
[13:12] <AlanBell> and you can zip together a 200w to another 200w, or a 200 to a 200, but you can't zip a 200 to a 200w
[13:12] <popey> whats the difference?
[13:13] <hamitron> gender of the zip?
[13:14] <AlanBell> the 200w is 20cm shorter
[13:14] <oimon> the 200w steals the covers from the 200 in the night
[13:14] <hamitron> hehe
[13:14] <oimon> and denies it
[13:15] <Myrtti> left and right atleast in Finnish ones mean that if you've got one each you can zip them together and make one big *double* sleeping bag
[13:15] <AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, thats what it means on these ones
[13:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> ^^--^^ Ewww. Can't imagine why anyone would want to do *that*
[13:22]  * AlanBell draws TheOpenSourcerer a diagram
[13:23] <bigcalm> Heh
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> imagebin it :-) AlanBell
[13:29] <hamitron> tent has pole in the middle :/
[13:35] <kvarley> Anybody know of any applications to test the performance of flash memory? (microSDHC, etc)
[13:37] <oimon> double sleeping bag is like sleeping with a 5ft hot water bottle = nice
[13:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: what with a 24-6 win to England :P
[13:50] <czajkowski> davmor2: :)
[13:50] <czajkowski> davmor2: go see pm :)
[13:50] <czajkowski> and behave
[13:51] <davmor2> czajkowski: NO! :P
[13:51] <hamitron> kvarley, I wouldn't test write performance.... could shorten the life of it
[13:59] <diplo> afternoon all
[14:08] <gord> https://plus.google.com/112811220238447511854/posts/XWYJQhYATdG *cough* http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ *cough*
[14:09] <gord> such a bad *cough* today - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus *splutter*
[14:09]  * AlanBell prepares to slap gord if it doesn't work with orca
[14:09] <AlanBell> but it does look pretty
[14:10] <gord> i may have completely forgotten about orca ;) i'll make sure its fixed and talk to the qa guys about integrating orca into the tests
[14:10] <Mez_> Great fun - I've been tasked with "work out something for the team to do for a day that can be used to show an iterative agile process.  Something like a paper airplane, but something that the whole team can work on).
[14:10] <Mez_> Anyone have any ideas?
[14:10]  * AlanBell gets out a haddock and slaps gord round the face with it
[14:11] <AlanBell> it looks like a great idea gord, I can see this being quite popular
[14:12] <davmor2> AlanBell, gord: I can see people who hate unity crying into hankies now, me on the other hand I think it's cool :)
[14:12] <AlanBell> lol at the windows adverts in the video
[14:14] <AlanBell> ooooh to hudCLI
[14:16] <AlanBell> gord: so when is it landing in precise?
[14:16] <gord> AlanBell, next unity release is next week, so if everything goes well, then
[14:17] <czajkowski> gord: you work on funky stuff
[14:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> That looks quite cool. Might make unity more [ahem] usable. I especially liked the hud-cli. Neat
[14:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol "EMACS users just grunt and… nevermind"
[14:22] <Myrtti> Mez: spaghtti and marshmellows
[14:23] <Mez> Myrtti: not sure that'd take them all dya.
[14:23] <Myrtti> Mez: real life Angry Birds then
[14:24] <Mez> Not too sure the RSPCA would like that :P
[14:24] <Myrtti> "build the best trebuchet you can. success of the team is measured by the strength, beauty and performance of the device in use of hurling stuffed Angry Birds toys"
[14:25] <Myrtti> available material: wooden sticks, rubberbands, hot glue, sellotape, paperclips
[14:25] <Myrtti> etc.
[14:25] <AlanBell> and number of pigs destroyed
[14:25] <Myrtti> or distance of birds traveled
[14:25] <Mez> YeahYeah - thats where your first comment had me going.  Nott too sure whether we'd have the materials ... but could be done.
[14:25]  * bigcalm expects a live demonstration from gord on Thursday :P
[14:26] <czajkowski> gord: when are you coming down here
[14:26] <Mez> bigcalm: it's for friday.
[14:26] <Mez> It's actually more for the product owner than anyone else.
[14:26] <gord> czajkowski, here? where is here?
[14:26] <czajkowski> see I'm getting the lingo right, everything north of London is NORTH :)
[14:26] <czajkowski> gord: London
[14:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> gord, what triggers the hud to appear? I would like it to be when I cough in a particular way.
[14:26] <czajkowski> right beside the London eye
[14:27] <gord> czajkowski, ah, no no. not if i can avoid it. trip to london means 5am get up and not home till 9pm
[14:27] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: if your cough is enough to press the alt button then I think it should work
[14:27] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, tapping alt
[14:27] <czajkowski> gord: stay over!
[14:29] <AlanBell> gord: when the 350MB of updates today installs I should have the hud from the PPA
[14:29] <czajkowski> just doing an update
[14:29] <czajkowski> may not have been wise considering I want a working machine in 30 mins
[14:30] <popey> 14:26:20 < czajkowski> gord: when are you coming down here
[14:30] <popey> it's "up here", always 'up' towards the capital city
[14:30] <popey> even if you're going north
[14:31] <czajkowski> very confusing
[14:31] <czajkowski> :/
[14:31] <popey> heh
[14:31]  * czajkowski goes back to her books to get the lingo right
[14:31]  * gord questions popey's reasoning
[14:31] <popey> s/north/south/
[14:31] <popey> :D
[14:32] <czajkowski> anyone going to FOSDEM - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2012
[14:35]  * oimon reads shuttleworths post. unity is becoming a concept OS!
[14:37] <oimon> interestingly not a tablet friendly idea.
[14:37] <AlanBell> it is perhaps a fairly significant thing to be dropping into the LTS at this stage
[14:37] <gord> oimon, well, until voice recognition is hooked up
[14:37] <DJones> I'm just looking at this http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus
[14:38] <AlanBell> gord: is that the plan (it would work quite well actually)
[14:38] <oimon> i like this idea though, rather clever
[14:39] <daubers> I'm quite intrigued to try the hud thing. Think it's one of those things that looks a bit odd till you try it
[14:39] <gord> AlanBell, yeah, eventually. not soon
[14:39] <Laney> does it offer a way to explore a program's capabilities?
[14:40] <AlanBell> it has the menu content already, that could be made into a grammar table on the fly for pocketsphinx to look at
[14:40] <oimon> does it make heavy use of zeitgeist?
[14:41] <hamitron> what if you don't know the name of the app?
[14:42] <gord> oimon, doesn't touch zeitgeist, what would zeitgeist have to use?
[14:42] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: so the future of the Unity GUI is in fact the command line?
[14:42] <popey> ☺
[14:42] <AlanBell> so it seems gordonjcp
[14:42]  * hamitron moves to xterm
[14:42] <popey> hamitron: hud isnt for apps, its for menus
[14:43] <hamitron> menus?
[14:43] <popey> yes, menus
[14:43] <hamitron> how you get the menu with apps?
[14:43]  * popey notes hamitron probably hasn't read the article
[14:43] <hamitron> I have sort of
[14:43] <popey> ok, I'll stop talking till you have
[14:44] <czajkowski> heh
[14:45] <popey> 38
[14:45] <popey> BAH!
[14:45] <hamitron> so what would you type to insert a spreadsheet?
[14:45] <hamitron> popey, I mis-read the first time
[14:45] <hamitron> ;/
[14:45] <davmor2> gord: when does that hit 12.04?
[14:46] <gord> davmor2, next week
[14:46] <AlanBell> gord: have you looked at creating jsgf files from the menu content?
[14:46] <davmor2> gord: you can give me a demo on thursday then :)
[14:47] <hamitron> the worst thing I can see about 12.04, too many changes from 10.04 for users to get used to
[14:47] <gord> AlanBell, nope, but you should talk to tedg if you have ideas there
[14:47] <hamitron> be almost like the jump I had from Windows 2000 to Windows 7
[14:48] <AlanBell> hamitron: well they still have a year to think about it
[14:48] <hamitron> true
[14:48] <hamitron> just thinking, staff training, etc
[14:49] <hamitron> like, I still hate the new windows 7 menu
[14:49] <oimon> xfce is similar to gnome2 in 10.04
[14:49] <oimon> not too hard to include that option
[14:49] <gord> you can set the windows 7 menu to be "classic" can't you?
[14:50] <gord> i think i remember doing that
[14:50] <hamitron> gord, no
[14:50] <hamitron> you could in vista
[14:50] <gord> ah
[14:50] <hamitron> tbh, it wasn't such a big jump from XP
[14:50] <hamitron> but I was from 2000
[14:51] <hamitron> and I'm probably the sort of person who doesn't like change so much
[14:51] <hamitron> :)
[14:51] <gord> i can imagine - though weirdly xp -> vista is a larger jump than xp->7
[14:51] <hamitron> I never used XP much
[14:52] <hamitron> when i did, set it on classic menu
[14:52] <hamitron> I will ofc try the next ubuntu
[14:52] <hamitron> but just got a bad feeling, I won't be happy
[14:53] <hamitron> dunno how unity works yet
[14:53] <hamitron> suppose could maybe use LXDE
[14:54] <oimon> lxde is quite like winxp
[14:54] <hamitron> it is?
[14:54] <hamitron> I'd compared it more to win95
 the worst thing I can see about 12.04, too many changes from 10.04 for users to get used to <-- i am dreading this for my users
[14:56] <hamitron> yeh, be worse when you are in charge of them
[14:56] <hamitron> at least I can tweak stuff for personal use
[14:56] <oimon> mind you , when i upgraded my users to RHEL6, nobody complained about KDE4
[14:57] <oimon> and it's the buggy 4.3.x version they use
[14:57] <hamitron> how does Unity compare to Gnome2 and KDE?
[14:57] <hamitron> is it easy to "pick up"?
[14:57] <oimon> hamitron: where have you been?
[14:57] <popey> for newbs, totally
[14:57] <oimon> try a live cd :D
[14:57] <directhex> in my testing, unity has been easier for gnome2 users than shell
[14:58] <hamitron> live cd are a large download
[14:58] <directhex> but the HUD thing changes matters
[14:58] <hamitron> ;/
[14:58] <hamitron> most machines here had a vista license, so just moved them onto that
[14:59] <hamitron> so no rush
[15:00] <oimon> i've never seen a machine than vista works on
[15:00] <hamitron> seems ok so far
[15:00] <oimon> except my dad's laptop. all others slow to crawl and disk is thrashing, and is unusable (literally)
[15:01] <hamitron> oh dear
[15:01] <hamitron> well, ok so far
[15:01] <hamitron> :)
[15:01] <hamitron> my main worry, they only have 2Gb ram
[15:04] <awilkins> gord: I see in that HUD screenshot, the normal menu isn't there - there is room for it, did you decide not to present it in the top bar of the HUD (or HUM - Head Up Menu) when you open it?
[15:06] <gord> awilkins, yeah its not present when you have the hud open, but its not removed or anything. its the same design as the dash, when you open the dash, the panel goes transparent and the menu vanishes
[15:07] <awilkins> gord: if you hold alt, does the "real" menu appear (the current behaviour). Not that I care, I mouse menus, but I know people who are freakish about keyboard usage of menus
[15:09] <gord> awilkins, ah thats a good point, right now no its not opening the menu, but thats my bug :) will fix
[15:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] FOSDEM 2012 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/01/24/fosdem-2012/
[15:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: you saddo ;) brain the size of a planet and you make it connect to you phone ;)
[15:16] <bigcalm> A sign that I'm getting old: Twenty Twelve sounds like a futuristic date even now
[15:16] <bigcalm> davmor2: ;)
[15:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: no that is just a sign that you were born a century ago :D
[15:17] <bigcalm> davmor2: do you have a case? I've ordered one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005ARXH08
[15:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: I just got the rubber one so I didn't knock it off things as I walked passed :)
[15:18] <bigcalm> Ah
[15:18] <bigcalm> I can see mine travelling with me
[15:19] <bigcalm> I wonder if it's worth getting a bt keyboard
[15:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: mine will with me I might treat myself to a more appropriate case at a latter date but mine is mostly just there when I need it:)
[15:20] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[15:20] <popey> i want a boxee remote
[15:20] <popey> or 3
[15:21] <daubers> "I want doesn't get" as my mum always used to tell me
[15:22] <popey> yeah, i tell my kids that too
[15:22] <popey> but I have a job, so meh
[15:22] <daubers> heh :p
[15:22] <gord> the crappy windows vista remote popey recommended to me years ago has served me surprisingly well
[15:23] <bigcalm> :D
[15:23] <popey> yeah, i just ordered another one of them!
[15:23] <popey> no good for ubuntu tv tho ☺
[15:23]  * bigcalm adds a bt kb to his amazon wishlist. Enough spending has been done recently!
[15:23] <gord> the mouse driving it does is really horrible to use, but in a pinch, its really useful
[15:23] <popey> +1
[15:25]  * daubers seems to be gaining vast amounts of samsung kit recently
[15:25] <daubers> phone, TV, monitor.....
[15:25] <bigcalm> ICS on the phone yet?
[15:25] <daubers> Not yet... supposed to be february
[15:26] <bigcalm> Ah, goodo :)
[15:26] <bigcalm> April can't come soon enough for me!
[15:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - love the fact that Canonical's pr firm email me interesting things after I have already read them via twitter.
[15:28] <bigcalm> :)
[15:28] <oimon> is gord a secret OMG lover?
[15:29] <davmor2> oimon: there is no secret about it :D
[15:29] <gord> why what have a i done now?
[15:29] <gord> -a
[15:30] <oimon> whoever made the video,
[15:30] <gord> i didn't make the video :)
[15:30] <gord> olli did http://www.olli-ries.com/?p=669
[15:31] <bigcalm> I think I sucked air though my teeth while talking to a potential new client on the phone. I should be working in a garage
[15:31] <AlanBell> oimon: whoever made the video spends time looking at microsoft stuff
[15:31] <AlanBell> google adsense for me is always alfresco adverts
[15:33] <popey> i get ads for red diesel
[15:33] <oimon> tasty
[15:33] <popey> I can't, I'm on a dfiet
[15:33] <popey> *diet
[15:34] <bigcalm> Are you a farmer?
[15:34] <popey> Ooo arrr
[15:34] <bigcalm> Or am I thinking of something else?
[15:34] <oimon> popey: preapre to get swamped by twitter spammers after your latest tweet
[15:34] <oimon> certain keyword
[15:35] <bigcalm> 'computer'
[15:36] <popey> haha
[15:36] <popey> i already have them all
[15:36] <oimon> or maybe fans of carry-on films will match on phwoooar
[15:37] <oimon> i'm not unity's biggest fan, but slashdot commenters are all luddites
[15:38] <bigcalm> Your fault for reading /. comments
[15:38] <bigcalm> Or /. at all really
[15:39] <oimon> every time i restart hotot, the ui has changed a bit and i have to find where the buttons are this time :D
[15:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: you terry pratchett fanboy ;)
[15:41] <bigcalm> davmor2: I wouldn't say fanboy, but I do enjoy his work
[15:41] <bigcalm> Why?
[15:41] <davmor2> bigcalm: pic lists your wireless connection name :D
[15:42] <bigcalm> Oh, yes :)
[15:49] <oimon> 90% of /. commenters think this is a alt-f2 app chooser thing rather than app menus
[15:52] <daubers> oimon: 99% of /. commenters don't read the article
[15:52] <oimon> daubers: i thought it was 101% :P
[15:52] <jpds> What article?
[15:52] <daubers> oimon: Well 1000% of statistics are made up to fit the statisticians evil purposes
[15:54] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: HUD looks quite fun actually
[15:54] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: from a programming point of view will we need to do any magic?
[15:55] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: no magic, if your app doesn't break global menus
[15:55] <oimon> just noticed linuxconf.au talks are now on youtube
[15:55] <daubers> where's the PPA for that btw?
[15:57] <AlanBell> ppa for HUD?
[15:57] <jutnux> Had a biology exam today
[15:57] <jutnux> And hello everyone :-)
[15:58] <kvarley> jutnux: hi there
[15:59] <daubers> AlanBell: Ya
[16:00] <ahayzen> Are the global menus still going to remain as a way of accessing the menus? Even when the HUD is fully implemented?
[16:01] <jutnux> kvarley: Howdy
[16:01] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/hud
[16:01] <daubers> AlanBell: Ta muchly
[16:02] <AlanBell> ahayzen: I would imagine they would have to be, hopefully they will make them more pretty to match
[16:02] <ahayzen> AlanBell: Thanks.... Hopefully we will end up with both ways. The HUD for Keyboard use and global menus for mouse?
[16:05] <shaneo1> hi I have just installed LTSP on 11.10 server, but having issues with defaulting to unity 2d as unity 3d does not work on the thin clients at the moment
[16:05] <shaneo1> any ideas
[16:17] <jutnux> Can I ask why you are using the server install rather than the desktop one?
[16:32] <AlanBell> gord: ok, so this HUD thing, I can't work out what it is doing. doesn't seem to pop up when I have gnome-terminal running
[16:32] <gord> AlanBell, step by step, explain ;)
[16:33] <AlanBell> I installed from the ppa, started gnome-terminal, hit alt, nothing happens
[16:34] <AlanBell> ah, hang on, it is doing stuff now
[16:35] <gord> i may have been a little stingy with the timeout to consider a "tap"
[16:35] <AlanBell> ooh, a very very fast tap
[16:36] <AlanBell> err, those are not gnome-terminal menu items it is showing me
[16:36] <gord> problem is that we don't have the code in to detect if the user did say alt+h right now, its really more complicated than you would think to figure that out. so i'm being stingy to stop those cases coming up too much
[16:36] <gord> AlanBell, we ignore terminals right now, for debugging reasons
[16:37] <AlanBell> aaah right, I will stop testing it with that then :)
[16:38] <AlanBell> ok, now it is making more sense, I couldn't figure out what was going on with terminal having focus and it showing me nautilus menu options
[16:39]  * AlanBell thinks this has been written by someone who does not have enough monitors
[16:39] <gord> i have two
[16:39] <AlanBell> is it going to pop up on the same screen as the global menu would do for an application?
[16:40] <gord> maybe after the multi-monitor work lands
[16:41] <AlanBell> ok, if you focus one application and use the HUD, then focus another and press alt, you get the icon of the first application until you press a letter
[16:41] <oimon>  if i'm using nautilus, hit alt, and type network, i don't see network
[16:41] <oimon> am i holding it wrong?
[16:41] <oimon> would expect to see go -> network
[16:42] <ahayzen> gord: On the video it shows a song being selected in banshee... however (in oneiric) there is no entry for Bookmarks and then the songs ... So my question is how does the HUD know what songs are in banshee and how to play them?
[16:42] <Daviey> !ping
[16:43] <gord> oimon, yeah that should show network, there is some clever fuzzy matching going on thats not matching there, file a bug against indicator-appmenu?
[16:44] <oimon> gord, sure thing, wanted to check i was using it right
[16:44] <gord> ahayzen, tools -> bookmarks?
[16:45] <ahayzen> gord: Oh yh ... sorry ...
[16:45] <gord> np ;)
[16:46] <popey> this stuff should go in a FAQ
[16:47] <ahayzen> gord: I was thinking it was something cleaver going on with the Music lens or DBus ... oh well lol
[17:28]  * daubers goes home
[17:52] <ubuntubhoy> is ubuntu freaking out when unplugged from the mains in a laptop running 64bit a common issue, or will it be a hardware compatibility issue my side ?
[17:55] <bigcalm> Doesn't happen to me
[17:55] <popey> define freak out
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqupk71a-O0 ?
[17:58] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: just what I was thinking
[17:58] <ubuntubhoy> popey, as in dumps me to a text screen with no input, should really have taken note of the actual text, but basically a screen full of tuff crashing out
[17:58] <ubuntubhoy> stuff*
[17:59] <ubuntubhoy> happens both with Oneiric, and Precise
[17:59] <gord>  sounds like X dies
[18:00] <ubuntubhoy> 32 bit works fine, as does windows
[18:00] <bigcalm> Grrr, Spotify are really pushing facebook connection thingy on my client. Getting irritating. I paid the monthly subscription to stop the irritation :(
[18:01] <popey> bigcalm: tell them in #spotify
[18:01]  * MartijnVdS replaces bigcalm's hand with a hook, gives him an eyepatch and a hat
[18:01] <gord> netflix on ps3 is awful for that
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in case you want to drop your support for Spotify ;)
[18:01] <gord> there are like five genres and one is "facebook"
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[18:04] <gord> the selection is really limited, really rather surprising
[18:11] <bigcalm> Sod, dog walking day and I'm late
[18:11] <bigcalm> Toodles
[18:35] <gord> davmor2, you about?
[18:39] <davmor2> gord: I am
[18:40] <gord> davmor2, cool, so oil rush was a pre-order on the software centre right?
[18:40] <davmor2> gord: indeed
[18:40] <gord> did they push up alpha builds until it released? or was it just quite literally a pre-order
[18:41] <davmor2> gord: no it was pre-release I think not pre order you got software
[18:41] <gord> cool, thanks :)
[18:42] <davmor2> gord: iirc I think there is at least one update in the packaging queue unless it has gone out already it all becomes a blur
[18:49] <davmor2> gord: it's an awesome game but it don't half suck the go go juice out of your system :)
[18:49] <davmor2> gord: you install ryzom yet?
[18:50] <gord> davmor2, though honestly my time for pc games since we last talked about has been zero :(
[18:50] <gord> busy busy
[18:50] <davmor2> no seriously welcome to my world ;)
[18:51] <davmor2> gord: even when I've got down time I got so much that has been on the back boiler there is no time free
[18:54] <davmor2> gord: on a plus side hud looks cool
[18:54] <davmor2> gord: you don't really see my work :(
[18:55] <SuperEngineer> weee! Google+ relaxes real name policy to allow pseudonyms http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16700902
[18:55] <gord> davmor2, true, but then again sometimes i'd call that a blessing ;)
[19:37] <smittix> evening!
[20:06] <daubers> Evening
[20:11] <smittix> How goes daubers ?
[20:26] <mattt> herro
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> howdy
[20:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - Just typed "Growing Chiilies" into Google - I'm #2
[20:41] <brobostigon> cool :)
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> growling chillies?
[20:59] <jutnux> Howdy all
[20:59] <jacobw> hey
[21:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The HUD: Call For Testers - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/24/hud-call-for-testers/
[21:20] <jacobw> :)
[21:23] <jacobw> hud looks great, the mockups looks like its been developed for a while
[21:24] <jacobw> is canonical trying to do apple style suprise new stuff?
[21:25] <popey> like we haven't before?
[21:25] <popey> font... design.. branding.. unity...
[21:26] <jacobw> true
[21:27] <ahayzen> I guess it is a good way of hitting the news and getting more publicity, the HUD is everywhere on the news at the moment
[21:27]  * jacobw looks forward to 12.04
[21:27] <popey> exactly
[21:28] <popey> and releasing when the time is right is also wise
[21:28] <popey> not saying the time was right, just saying thats wise ;)
[21:28] <popey> also, keeping it under wraps till you've developed it means other people can't... 'borrow' it and say they made it themselves
[21:28] <popey> *cough*
[21:29] <jacobw> 'borrowing' is killing open source man :p
[21:34] <popey> gord: firefox, tap alt, type 'down' expect to see 'downloads' but don't
[21:34] <popey> i see shutdown options
[21:39] <jutnux> AlanBell: popey: Do you reckon you could remove my pin from the "Where are we" page? :-)
[21:39] <popey> ☹
[21:39] <popey> i dunno that I can, AlanBell will know
[21:40] <jutnux> Okie dokie.
[21:40] <jutnux> How are you all then?
[21:40] <popey> tickety boo
[21:40] <gord> popey, looks like the service has a hard time with firefox, can you file a bug against indicator-appmenu?
[21:40] <popey> sure
[21:40] <popey> ubuntu-bug or plan lp?
[21:40] <popey> *plain
[21:40] <gord> launchpad
[21:40] <popey> ok
[21:43] <AlanBell> jutnux: sure
[21:43] <AlanBell> jutnux: it is in the trash now, should be gone
[21:43] <popey> bug 921231
[21:47] <jutnux> AlanBell: Thanks :-)
[21:47] <jutnux> THe HUD looks extremely nice.
[21:55] <smittix> ouch, new laptop lasts about 20minutes on battery with 11.10
[21:55] <smittix> time to get to work by the looks of things.
[21:55] <gord> grrr stupid popey, his ping whilst i was walking about with my ps3 controller has lead to me putting down the ps3 controller somewhere that i don't know where i put it and now i can't find it. its obviously entirely his fault
[21:56] <popey> haha
[21:56] <popey> gord: should I buy a PS3?
[21:56] <gord> stupid wireless technology
[21:56] <popey> gord: name 3 must-have games on PS3
[21:56] <kvarley> popey: No. Don't do it!
[21:56] <gord> only three? ;)
[21:56] <popey> hah
[21:57] <popey> did you see the launchpad guy who brought his ps3 to the rally in budapest?
[21:57] <gord> i love my ps3, but if you don't play much games now, or get enough from steam, its not really worth it :)
[21:57] <popey> he was playing at like 160x120 on a projector
[21:57] <gord> there was a ps3 at budapest?!
[21:57] <popey> yeah
[21:57] <jutnux> popey: Little Big Planet 2 and I have an Xbox.
[21:57] <gord> no one tells me these things :(
[21:57] <popey> gmb knows who he is
[21:57] <gord> in orlando we played left4dead 2 multiplayer on two projectors, that was fun ;)
[21:58] <popey> i told him to use our room which has an hdmi equipped projector, he was using composite out ☺
[21:58] <popey> couldn't read the text his friends were typing
[21:58] <czajkowski> gord: were you in a corner eating all the bisscuits!
[22:02] <jacobw> 160x120?!
[22:02] <jacobw> :|
[22:03] <popey> humour
[22:03] <popey> exaggeration for comedic effect
[22:03] <popey> i can't remember his name but i do recall showing him a video of a family guy character and saying he sounded like it
[22:03] <gord> well.. i guess i need to shop for a new controller on amazon, seeing as the one i had in my hand 15 minutes ago is lost to the sock and screw dimension
[22:04] <AlanBell> hmm, hud-cli isn't in the ppa
[22:04] <gord> AlanBell, indicator-appmenu-tools
[22:05] <AlanBell> ah right, a new package
[22:06] <czajkowski> anyone seen issues like this on 12.04 on running todays updates
[22:06] <czajkowski> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/815871/
[22:10] <gord> turns out i put it behind the sofa, not sure the reason why, maybe ghosts put it there
[22:11] <czajkowski> was it the cat?
[22:13] <gord> that makes too much sense for it to not be the cat
[22:28] <czajkowski> popey: do you know if its possible to take a screen capture in Ubuntu the way you can on a mac by selecting a certain area, I dont want to have to crop each and every image afterwards
[22:30] <bigcalm> What should I get Hayley for her 40th birthday in May? Not sure how to trump the ### quid pen I gave her at xmas
[22:30] <bigcalm> czajkowski: you can alt-printscreen to capture the active window
[22:31] <AlanBell> czajkowski: gnome-screenshot -i
[22:31] <popey> czajkowski: install shutter
[22:31] <popey> its a really nice screenshot tool
[22:32] <czajkowski> ok so how does shutter work ?
[22:32] <popey> install it, run it
[22:32] <popey> press one of the buttons to take a screenshot
[22:32] <czajkowski> bigcalm: aye I dont want the active window writing stuff for a manual which means I only want images
[22:32] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[22:34] <czajkowski> bigcalm: I do that for bugs tis handy thanks
[22:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: might look into that if I can select the area
[22:34] <smittix> I hate laptops sometimes!
[22:34] <czajkowski> thanks folks
[22:34] <AlanBell> czajkowski: you can
[22:34] <bigcalm> :)
[22:34] <AlanBell> and it is the same tool as alt+prtscr
[22:35] <czajkowski> cheers
[22:36] <AlanBell> top tip, if you like alt+prtscr to take a screenshot, then HUD might not be ready for you :)
[22:36]  * popey once again recommends shutter ☺
[22:36] <bigcalm> Heh
[22:37] <smittix> does anyone else get continuous head parking on a laptop?
[22:37] <bigcalm> AlanBell: can HUD be bound to Alt Gr?
[22:37] <czajkowski> AlanBell: maybe UI'll try HUD after this manual is written
[22:37] <AlanBell> dunno, ask gord
[22:37] <czajkowski> am close to killing the developer
[22:38] <czajkowski> no documentation so I've to test things 3-4 times to see if I'm getting what I think I should be getting
[22:39] <bigcalm> You're a trooper!
[22:41] <czajkowski> no I'm insane
[22:41] <czajkowski> I did this for a mate
[22:41] <czajkowski> not expecting a 46 page manial
[22:41] <czajkowski> *manual
[22:43] <bigcalm> o.O
[22:44] <czajkowski> lotta diagrams
[22:44] <czajkowski> and explainations
[22:45]  * bigcalm takes soap away from czajkowski :)
[22:48] <czajkowski> indeed
[22:48] <czajkowski> SLEEP!
[22:57] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, in ccsm you can bind it to other keys
[22:57] <popey> bug 921270
[22:57] <AlanBell> I have hud bound to the funny windows right click context menu key
[22:58] <bigcalm> Oh, the context menu key
[22:58] <AlanBell> popey: I think it is just the icon not updated
[22:59] <popey> ah
[22:59] <popey> you may be right
[22:59] <AlanBell> press a key and it updates and searches the correct app, that confused me too
[23:00] <AlanBell> there is some very screwed up searching going on
[23:01]  * popey updates bugs
[23:08] <AlanBell> bug #921275