[03:24] <mneptok> FreeNET: did you want to try to resolve your ban? if not, we have a no-idle policy.
[08:38] <bazhang> Pharaoh is back at it
[08:57] <FreeNET> mneptok
[08:57] <bazhang> cinnamon is for ARCH?
[08:57] <Myrtti> I thought for Mint
[08:57] <bazhang> ok
[08:57] <FreeNET> my english very bad
[08:57] <FreeNET> sorry
[08:57] <bazhang> dies_irae is asking for it
[08:57] <Myrtti> FreeNET: change your quit message
[08:57] <FreeNET> ok
[08:58] <FreeNET> done!
[08:58] <bazhang> I'm not comfortable giving out random PPA sites such webupd8 for software install suggestions
[08:59] <Myrtti> FreeNET: if we see it and don't like it and ban you again, getting unbanned will not be as easy. Understand?
[09:00] <FreeNET> Myrtti ok
[09:00] <FreeNET> 10x
[09:01] <Myrtti> ok, hold on
[09:01] <FreeNET> oki
[09:01] <FreeNET> * Cannot join #ubuntu (You are banned).
[09:02] <Myrtti> I just realised I've banned you last year about the same issue
[09:03] <popey> bazhang: I thought it was decided that ppa's were not supported?
[09:04] <Tm_T> only official (and supported by our teams) are supported?
[09:04] <Tm_T> I mean, there's plenty of stuff on ppa that are supported by the same team who does give support on ubuntu archives too
[09:05] <bazhang> popey, right; they are not, and have never been so; often times people will recommend off repo things from websites such as webupd8 and the like though.
[09:05] <bazhang> the only PPA I would ever feel ok recommending is the handbrake one, as its what the handbrake people themselves recommend, and is maintained by jstebbins at last check
[09:06]  * Myrtti ponders what to do with FreeNET 
[09:07] <bazhang> so does support mean: don't mention it at all, or don't offer to fix when it breaks, or both
[09:07] <bazhang> whoops not support
[09:13] <Myrtti> FreeNET: I've brought you here last september to discuss about your quit message, and now the SAME quit message is a problem again. Why is that?
[09:14] <FreeNET> Myrtti sorry
[09:14] <FreeNET> my english bad
[09:14] <FreeNET> :(
[09:14] <Myrtti> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/21/%23ubuntu-ops.html#t22:02
[09:15] <FreeNET> (
[09:15] <FreeNET> :(
[09:22] <Myrtti> FreeNET: could you
[09:22] <Myrtti> FreeNET: could you *PLEASE* promise that in the future when you update your script/IRC client, you *WILL* check what quit message you have?
[09:24] <FreeNET> Myrtti i promise
[09:25] <bazhang> for example: a user wants audacious to have sound menu support, but only 3.2 version has that , of which there is a PPA for
[09:25] <ikonia> bazhang: too much stuff is based around PPA's at the moment and there (and there can't be) checks for quality or support
[09:25] <FreeNET> Myrtti 10x very match
[09:26] <bazhang> ikonia, agreed
[09:26] <Myrtti> FreeNET: you're wel....come, please try not to end up in here again
[09:26] <bazhang> the whole PPA issue seems to conflict with Ubuntu using relatively stable software packages. tons of websites push them
[09:27] <ikonia> PPA != ubuntu
[09:34] <popey> i think you're making a sweeping generalisation about PPAs there
[09:35] <popey> take the unity team one or the mozilla team one, both run by people who work on those projects for Ubuntu, who work for Canonical
[09:35] <popey> so they are similar quality to the release
[09:35] <Tm_T> 1104.30 <+Tm_T> only official (and supported by our teams) are supported?
[09:35] <Tm_T> 1104.56 <+Tm_T> I mean, there's plenty of stuff on ppa that are supported by the same team who does give support on ubuntu archives too
[09:35] <AlanBell> hmm
[09:35] <AlanBell> if people want to help test stuff pre-release then a PPA is an awesome way of doing so
[09:36] <Myrtti> popey: the problem is that there's gazillion and one of these PPA's that are supported to varying degrees by Ubuntu and/or Canonical, and it's impossible for each op to remember which is verboten and which is kosher
[09:37] <popey> which makes it daft to make any rule about them being verboten or kosher
[09:37] <Tm_T> Myrtti: there's not that many of those I would support that I know, really
[09:38] <Tm_T> but yeah, it's not easy to draw a clear line there
[09:38] <popey> so why have a line?
[09:38] <Myrtti> it's easier to "throw the kid to wolves" ie. to the developer IRC channel and let them handle the support, and us stick to the common parts everyone has access/interest to
[09:39] <Myrtti> give a finger to the devil or somesuch saying here
[09:39] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I agree it's easier, but I also feel we shouldn't do things certain way just because it's easier for us
[09:39] <popey> it depends what your level of support is I gues.. "did you get that from a ppa? well you're unsupported, please leave", or "oh, you got that from a ppa, looks like joe schmo is responsible for that, contact him/her"
[09:39] <Tm_T> yup
[09:39] <Tm_T> sorry, but I am idealist (:
[09:40] <Tm_T> popey: I don't even consider the first being an option
[09:40] <Tm_T> we always should point people to the right direction if the right direction is known
[09:42] <Tm_T> and I believe, for example in Firefox case, I should tell people of that option (and mention that it's ppa so not supported by the ubuntu project as a whole)
[09:42] <Tm_T> that option being ppa
[09:43] <Tm_T> some random ppa? no, I would not let people recommend it at all if there's stable, supported option around
[09:43] <Tm_T> ...and I'm not even sure if I am making any sense now
[09:44] <Myrtti> yes well I think the point bazhang was trying to make was that there's some weblog/ubuntu newssites that have their PPA's they mention in about half the stories they run
[09:45] <popey> unsurprising really, often with the new crack people are itching to get it 'now'
[09:45] <popey> they're servicing that need
[09:45] <AlanBell> !ppa
[09:45] <AlanBell> sounds about right to me
[09:45] <Tm_T> Myrtti: indeed, oftentimes something what wouldn't meet the quality requirements
[09:46] <AlanBell> a ppa is just a tarball that works
[09:47] <bazhang> hehe
[09:49] <popey> that description doesn't cover packages that are available in the archive, but are outdated
[09:51] <AlanBell> it is not always the case that a ppa is ahead of the archives
[09:53] <jussi> I fully recommend the Kubuntu PPA's
[10:00] <bazhang> thought moonlight/silverlight were dead
[10:01] <Myrtti> moonlight certainly is.
[10:02] <jussi> sadly mtv3 doesnt think so :( (silverlight)
[10:04] <Myrtti> I wish I could have given him helpful advice.
[10:04] <Myrtti> :-|
 Guys!! I need help, I think my computer is part of a botnet.
[10:19] <bazhang> he was asking for psychiatric help in #ubuntu earlier
[10:21] <ikonia> we need a better factoid than !ot for things such as windows questions
[10:22] <bazhang> he's just trolling. has been in multiple channels all day
[10:22] <ikonia> and I've just ended it
[10:22] <jussi> ikonia: I agree.
[10:22] <bazhang> he's using windows, he knows it's ubuntu support earlier
[10:22] <jussi> mind
[10:22] <jussi> !windows
[10:22] <ikonia> and it's done now
[10:23] <ikonia> jussi: I meant windows just as an example
[10:23] <ikonia> eg: how do I write a php web page
[10:23] <ikonia> that sort of generic question
[10:23] <ikonia> something along the lines of "there are better more specific channels for your question, visit freenode.net to find the best channel for you needs"
[10:23] <ikonia> but something that's factual
[10:23] <bazhang> he was directed to ##windows . he continued nonetheless
[10:23] <ikonia> rather than what I've just made up
[10:23] <ikonia> bazhang: it's ended now
[10:24] <bazhang> there's !alis
[10:24] <ikonia> something a bit more actually conversational seems better,
[10:24] <ikonia> !alis
[10:24] <ikonia> yeah, that doesn't explain why we don't want to help, or the approach, just informs you of the bot
[10:24] <jussi> ikonia: I agree, somethign that starts a nicer: Unfortunately your question is out of the scope of this channel....
[10:24] <jussi> !scope
[10:24] <jussi> meh
[10:25] <bazhang> since he was already asking really oddball questions earlier, ie about getting psychiatric help , it was clear where this was going
[10:25] <jussi> bazhang: I think we are talking mor generically now
[10:25] <bazhang> jussi, ok
[10:26] <ikonia> sorry, yes, I just meant in general, not for this specific incident
[10:26] <jussi> theres a lot of this type of questions, I think finding a slightly more polite factoid would be nice - something friendly
 se ubuntu ce de la mlerde
[12:43] <bazhang> I think he means mierde, which is not nice
[12:44] <LjL> nice catch
[12:52] <bazhang> advowork already got an answer for that, several hours ago
[13:00] <LjL> !botdoc
[13:00] <LjL> !no botdoc is <reply> Documentation on the custom plugins for ubottu and clones is located at http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Documentation for the official !Supybot plugins is located at http://ubottu.com/devel/supydoc/
[13:33] <bazhang> whoa
[13:34] <bazhang> nice new feature in the FB
[13:34] <LjL> not very new
[13:34] <LjL> just doesn't kick in too often
[13:34] <bazhang> consecutive curses? is that what triggers it?
[13:34] <LjL> bazhang: kinda. it's a bit more complicated, will explain in -team
[13:35] <bazhang> ok
[13:35] <bazhang> he immediately ban evaded to come back and curse us out
[13:35] <bazhang> algo2 that is
[13:39] <bazhang> * [howdoi] (~algo@falkenstein.tunnelr.com): Algo
[13:40] <bazhang> ban evasion #2
[13:41] <LjL> [14:40:41] <howdoi> I can be back in 2 minutes on another VPN.  I just think it's stupid u banned me in the first place.
[13:43] <LjL> [14:41:06] <LjL> i didn't ban you, the bot did, because you were so abusive you triggered its filters.
[13:43] <LjL> [14:41:11] <LjL> so blame yourself if anyone.
[13:43] <LjL> [14:42:42] <howdoi> "requested by LjL"  That isn't a bot, it's you
[13:43] <LjL> [14:43:04] <howdoi> It's ok I have about 5 more VPN's I can use before I dip into Tor IRC
[13:45] <LjL> [14:44:39] <howdoi> Stay sharp whore, and see if you get the next one
[13:45] <bazhang> which will get a kline
[13:46] <ikonia> thats ok, just means he's got 5 vpns, so 5 more bans and he's done
[13:46] <ikonia> best of luck to him
[13:49] <bazhang> the open tor relay was a kill/kline I thought
[13:53] <LjL> he's now joining, redirected to ##unavailable
[13:53] <LjL> keep an eye open
[13:57] <LjL> Pici: can i have op flags in #Ubuntu-proxy-users?
[13:58] <Tm_T> cani bean!
[13:59] <Pici> LjL: done
[13:59] <LjL> Pici: <3
[14:00] <LjL> banforwarded his tunnel there, ##unavailable seemed too harsh for a tunnel that other people may use too
[15:17] <mneptok> Myrtti: thanks for dealing with FreeNet
[15:17]  * mneptok goes to install a new kernel
[16:08]  * mneptok is now on the same side of things as services
[17:13] <jpds> Most peculiar.
[17:13] <ikonia> ?
[17:14] <jpds> dsg_ in #ubuntu typing in Cyrillic.
[17:14] <ikonia> not seen it,
[17:17] <jpds> Well, I got tired of him.
[17:20] <jpds> Haha, he join -ru and got kicked straight away.
[19:59] <Pici> meh
[21:27] <Pici> jpds: could you see if ubot4's factoid sync is working?
[22:39] <Myrtti> Iĺl smack nyl to next week if he continues
[22:40] <knome> ĺ ? :P
[22:41] <Myrtti> bluetooth keyboard without ' key where it should be
[22:41] <Myrtti> foldable nonFinnish layout
[22:41] <knome> ;)