[00:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Prompt with colour-changing smiley dependant upon exit code of command - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2012/01/24/prompt-with-colour-changing-smiley-dependant-upon-exit-code-of-command/
[08:09] <diplo> Morning all
[08:22] <Myrtti> moin
[08:37] <AlanBell> lornisng
[08:37] <AlanBell> gah, home keys
[08:37] <AlanBell> morning
[08:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> lornisng AlanBell
[08:39]  * AlanBell goes to top up the cofeee levels
[08:40] <daubers> Morning
[08:41] <popey> ;prmosmh AlanBell
[08:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh Chiral superconductivity
[08:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> This effect breaks time-reversal symmetry
[08:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is there *anything* that graphene can't do? http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/01/graphene-may-exhibit-exotic-superconductivity.ars
[08:44] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Solve p vs np?
[08:44] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Solve bug1 ?
[08:46] <daubers> Make cheese?
[09:07] <smittix> Good Morning Fellow Ubuntu'ers
[09:14] <oimon> AlanBell: would you say bug 921275 is a dupe of 921068?
[09:15] <bigcalm> !ping
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> !pong
[09:16] <bigcalm> !ding
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> !Leslie Phillips
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice. Visit this link from your mobile data connection: http://lew.io/headers.php On O" they send your Mobile Phone Number to every site you visit...
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/O2
[09:27] <AlanBell> eww
[09:34] <danfish> morning
[09:34] <danfish> anybody know anyone who works at giffgaff?
[09:34] <danfish> they've made a complete horlicks of porting my wife's mobile phone number :(
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not really -  They use a fairly "opensource" method of support ;-)
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Have you seen the noise about O2 this morning? sending your mobile # to every site you visit.
[09:36] <bigcalm> Would be nice if trac were to email me when a client adds an attachment to a ticket :|
[09:37] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: oh that's just the cherry on top of the icing. I'm setting up my own mobile network.
[09:37]  * danfish orders a thousand carrier pidgeons
[09:37] <danfish> at least if they don't work you can eat them
[09:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if O2 might be trending soon...
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww - Scary plane landings... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-57365171-52/dont-fly-this-at-home-video-of-scary-landings-goes-viral/
[09:45] <andylockran> howdy all
[09:46] <andylockran> anyone used a Synology NAS before?
[09:47] <andylockran> They look really neat, do two-way sync and also backup and 'time-based backups' to Amazon S3.
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah Hah: https://twitter.com/#!/o2
[09:50] <andylockran> man, I need faster internet..
[09:53] <andylockran> crikey TheOpenSourcerer they're in a spot of bother :D
[09:53] <bigcalm> Wow, nice morning for o2
[09:53] <AlanBell> damage control mode ON!
[09:53] <AlanBell> and just when I was going to re-code our website to text adverts to visitors
[09:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/neelie-kroes/donottrack/ "... it’s a directive to protect us against all kinds of malware and spyware,  to ensure the confidentiality of your electronic communications, and to  outlaw automated unsolicited marketing phone calls and spam without the  consent of the receiver."
[10:16] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:20] <bigcalm> Hi czajkowski
[10:24] <rml_home> O2 customers, this is for you - http://lew.io/headers.php
[10:26] <andylockran> that's nice :D works a treat on my O2 phone.
[10:26] <Daviey> One more reason to use a VPN :)
[10:27] <Daviey>  or proxy.
[10:28] <gord> do vpns/proxies work on mobiles?
[10:28] <czajkowski> gord: there is the option for a vpn on my phone though never tried it
[10:29] <rml_home> FWIW I'm a fraud investigator, and using proxies is a big red flag.
[10:30] <Daviey> rml_home: uh?
[10:30] <Daviey> gord: yes, they do.
[10:30] <gord> proxies are pretty common
[10:31] <oimon> rml_home: what kind of fraud?
[10:32] <danfish> what happens when a fraud investigator is suspected of fraud? Are there fraud investigator investigators?
[10:32] <gord> what about fraud investigator investigators that are su... yeah lets not do that
[10:33] <rml_home> Daviey/oimon:  My company takes online payments.  Peeps coming via an anonymising proxy stand out a mile
[10:33]  * danfish decides to setup the vpn he's meant to do for yonks
[10:34] <popey> rml_home: like every virgin media customer?
[10:34] <oimon> don't the FBI own some tor nodes?
[10:34] <Daviey> rml_home: who said anything about anonymising proxies?
[10:35] <rml_home> Daviey: I read a whole subtext into your "uh?"
[10:37] <Daviey> rml_home: considering proxies as a whole as a red flag is concerning... :)
[10:39] <rml_home> Daviey: I look at a lot of other stuff too, but coming via an anonymising proxy is a legitimate concern
[10:40] <oimon> in your line of work i can see why.
[10:40] <rml_home> it's a red flag, not a ban hammer
[10:40] <Daviey> At no point was i suggesting a "anonymising proxy".
[10:40] <oimon> anywayyyy....
[10:41] <Daviey> Although, i'd be interested in seeing how you determine an "anonymising proxy".. unless it is from a provider which specalises in this.
[10:42] <rml_home> Daviey: There are sites which specialise in this stuff unfortunately
[10:43] <Daviey> andylockran: feeling bored?  Fancy writing a page that grabs the phone number from the headers, and inserts it into asterisk to call them and say "thanks for visiting my web page 'foobar' ?
[10:43] <Daviey> rml_home: right.. :/
[10:43] <rml_home> http://hidemyass.com/ is one of my favourites right now
[10:44] <Daviey> Someone on my team used to work for Anonymizer.
[10:46] <Daviey> I used to use SafeWeb, which was CIA funded :)
[10:46] <rml_home> I try to do the best I can for my employer to mitigate fraud.  Most of our customers don't do tricksy stuff.  The ones that do get extra scrutiny
[10:48] <Mez> I'm looking for a way to get a dessktop boot locked down to only be allowed to use the browser.
[10:48] <Mez> Anyone have any suggestions on this?
[10:49] <bigcalm> Mez: quick google gave me this for ubuntu: http://www.instructables.com/id/Setting-Up-Ubuntu-as-a-Kiosk-Web-Appliance/
[10:49] <popey> Mez: google for ubuntu kiosk mode
[10:49] <popey> indeed, thats the first hit
[10:51] <oimon> mez, also disable the firefox restore sessions thing if using firefox ...
[10:52] <Mez> Hmm...
[10:52] <oimon> hmm that guide is more for display screens than what you're after i guess
[10:53] <Mez> well, without --kiosk it might be suitable.
[10:54] <oimon> kde3 used to have kiosk admin tool
[10:54] <czajkowski> huzzah found bug that's beeng annoying and developer couldnt confrm but now can, dont feel like an tool
[10:54] <oimon> someone should do a live cd of this really
[10:55] <popey> delete all users and logon as guest ☺
[10:56] <czajkowski> great now my batter is swigging from being empty to being charged all within a min or so
[10:57] <popey> my laptop lasted for 5 hours the other night when i tested it
[10:57] <czajkowski> popey: aye I'm getting just short of 6 now
[10:58] <czajkowski> loving it
[10:58] <czajkowski> :D
[10:58] <smittix> My laptop lasted 19 minutes last night.
[10:58] <bigcalm> I'm pleased with the battery life of my Xoom so far
[11:02] <gord> my laptop would last 8-10 until platform sprint :( new kernel came out and the awesome power management stuff went away
[11:04] <bigcalm> Read that as 8-10 mins. Most confusing
[11:05] <andylockran> Daviey: I would if I had the time.. busy man with new work :D
[11:08] <danfish> pff - call that battery life! I've gotton a year out of a AA cell....on an arduino ;)
[11:10] <Daviey> andylockran: an awesome person like you, should take, what 3 mins?
[11:11] <gord> i've never had to replace the batteries in my ps3 blutooth remote ever!
[11:12] <Mez> andylockran: that o2 stuff apparentl affects giffgaff too!
[11:12] <smittix> My Pacemaker battery is lasting along time too
[11:13] <gord> aa batteries obviously last the longest, will have to jerry rig my laptop to run on them
[11:13]  * popey gets his giffgaff sim out
[11:14] <bigcalm> Oh matron
[11:14] <Daviey> Mez: it goes back a long time it eems
[11:16] <daubers> danfish: How did you get around the silly voltage regulatory eating mAh?
[11:16] <AlanBell> laptop with AA batteries -> http://www.norhtec.com/products/gecko/index.html
[11:17]  * daubers installs the hud
[11:18] <danfish> daubers: some rather clever code (obviously not written by me!) from this guy http://jeelabs.org/2012/01/19/the-beat-still-goes-on/
[11:18] <daubers> danfish: Ah, are you using arduinos or jeenodes?
[11:19] <danfish> jeenode with this for power http://jeelabs.com/products/aa-power-board
[11:19] <daubers> :) That'll be why
[11:19] <danfish> :)
[11:19] <daubers> The voltage regulator on the arduino eats power even when the atmega is set to idle
[11:19] <daubers> or idle power down
[11:20] <danfish> yeah, it's not the most efficient one they could have chosen
[11:21] <gordonjcp> power efficiency isn't really a goal
[11:24] <danfish> gordonjcp: quite right...it's a journey not a goal
[11:27] <daubers> heh :) I've just been taking arduinos appart to get the to the power efficiency I want
[11:28] <gordonjcp> you're starting from the wrong place
[11:30] <danfish> gordonjcp: eh?
[11:31] <gordonjcp> danfish: if you want it to be power efficient, forget the arduino
[11:31] <gordonjcp> and indeed the ATMega 8-bit family
[11:31] <gordonjcp> you wouldn't start building a fuel-efficient car by getting a V8 and a 3-speed auto box, would you?
[11:32] <danfish> true
[11:46] <AlanBell> everyone got a haggis?
[11:47] <bigcalm> Mmmm, haggis
[11:47] <bigcalm> Is it burns night?
[11:48]  * popey is making pizza tonight
[11:48] <popey> nobody else in the house likes haggis
[11:48] <DJones> If anybody is bothered about the O2 mobile leaking mobile numbers, pocketlint have a work around http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/44141/o2-leaking-phone-number-to-websites
[11:48] <bigcalm> Awww
[11:49] <popey> might pop out and get some tho
[11:49]  * DJones thinks haggis is a great idea
[11:49]  * popey suspects waitrose would be the best place to go
[11:49] <danfish> haggis crumbled on pizza?
[11:49] <popey> heh, nice idea!
[11:50] <bigcalm> popey: waitrose sell lovely pre-sliced haggis that you microwave for 1 minute
[11:50] <popey> oooo
[11:50] <bigcalm> 2 slices per pack
[11:50] <Daviey> DJones: Please don't spread that around.. it's making it really hard for those trying to abuse this.
[11:50] <bigcalm> So a sensible amount
[11:50] <DJones> Daviey: Heh, you better tell pocketlint as well
[11:51] <AlanBell> I saw that yesterday bigcalm, but went and got a more propper one
[11:51] <Daviey> DJones: heh
[11:52] <DJones> Daviey: Post a link to the pocketlink story on /. it'll be as good a DOS attack on pocketlink :)
[11:54] <DJones> eww. Waitrose sell haggis in a tin, that doesn't sound good
[11:55] <popey> it is actually
[11:55] <popey> its in the usual sack thing
[11:55] <AlanBell> they also do a huge haggis for £15 that feeds 10 people
[11:55] <DJones> AlanBell: Or 2 people with normal appetites
[11:57] <christel> i have never had haggis :s
[11:57] <AlanBell> DJones: I was slightly tempted, but it looked a bit big even for me
[11:57] <AlanBell> christel: sainsburys in town has them
[11:57] <christel> ooh
[11:58] <Daviey> DJones: good thinking
[11:59] <danfish> AlanBell: can't you just get some of your chicken feed, marinate it in a puddle for a week, then wrap it in a sock - would look very similar to most haggis I've eaten :P
[11:59]  * popey goes to waitrose to look for haggis
[11:59] <DJones> oi Leave some for me
[12:09] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[12:10] <AlanBell> danfish: that is approximately how it works I believer
[12:10] <sagaci> just updated my virtualbox instance and the mouse won't move :S
[12:13] <mattt> holy crap
[12:13] <mattt> you guys see that stuff about o2?
[12:15] <AlanBell> yup
[12:15] <DJones> Why isn't there a "Tab" key on the right hand side of a keyboard, it would make navigating websites/filling numerical boxes in much easier
[12:19] <davmor2> morning all
[12:19] <ubuntubhoy> DJones, they expect you to have 2 hands
[12:19] <ubuntubhoy> unless your a pirate
[12:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod prod your get the idea
[12:20] <DJones> ubuntubhoy: Yeah, but one is moving a ruler up and down a piece of paper, it'd be less RSI with one on the right
[12:21] <bigcalm> Afternoon Dave2
[12:21] <bigcalm> Afternoon davmor2 as well
[12:25] <gord> and to all other daves a good afternoon too
[12:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: morning
[12:26] <davmor2> morning gord
[12:26] <bigcalm> Daviey: get a better timezone
[12:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha tab fail
[12:26] <DJones> gord: And good afternoon to you too
[12:26] <Daviey> bigcalm: wilco
[12:26] <bigcalm> I'm easily amused: https://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/162147052082561024
[12:28] <czajkowski> davmor2: hello my der
[12:28] <czajkowski> *dear
[12:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
[12:28] <gord> reflection makes it look like its bent
[12:29] <bigcalm> Search for 'snake 97' on the android market
[12:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: I have like work to do ;)
[12:31] <bigcalm> Actually quite playable on my phone
[12:32] <bigcalm> Just silly on the Xoom
[12:32] <ubuntubhoy> would be better used as a dialler
[12:32] <ubuntubhoy> that would be nice
[13:15] <Neoti_Laptop> are there any PHP masters in here ... ?
[13:16] <dwatkins> No, just padouin.
[13:17] <dwatkins> possibly spelled Padawan
[13:17] <davmor2> Naughty 02 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3508857
[13:17] <davmor2> o2 even
[13:17] <dwatkins> davmor2: yeah, I checked with Three and Vodafone, it's just O2 that's sending the telephone number in the headers
 essentially, all mobile providers do it, but they whitelist the sites they send that header to. O2 are saying a router upgrade dropped the whitelist in the skip
[13:19] <dwatkins> i'd like to know which sites they send it to, then.
[13:19] <oimon> sounds legit
[13:20] <dwatkins> Perhaps it's a scam to find out what the most popular phone is amongst hackers ;)
[13:25] <directhex> dwatkins, payment portals
[13:25] <directhex> dwatkins, so you can pay for android market etc via your phone bill
[13:25] <dwatkins> directhex: ah yes, that makes perfect sense
[13:26] <dwatkins> I vaguely wondered how that worked last time I used one.
[13:33]  * mattt has an o2 phone :(
[13:33] <mattt> but fortunately it's a work phone
[13:33] <mattt> :P
[13:34] <dwatkins> mattt: likewise :) I can turn it off when I want to
[13:51] <smittix> A few additional arguments passed to grub has boosted my battery :)
[13:51] <smittix> And I have screen brightness control back. YAY!
[13:51] <bigcalm> Made myself a 3 large egg omelette for lunch. Wondering if it was sensible now
[13:51] <bigcalm> Nice one, smittix
[13:52] <smittix> bigcalm: mmmm omelette
[13:53] <bigcalm> Trying to cut down on my carbohydrate intake. So went for the most protean laden thing I could think of (and could make)
[13:55] <bigcalm> Not something I'll be eating every day though
[14:02] <czajkowski> has the min max x boxes gone for anyone else today running Precise?
[14:03] <popey> not me
[14:03] <czajkowski> bugger
[14:03] <czajkowski> I cn only alt f4 them to close
[14:03] <popey> screenshot?
[14:03] <popey> sounds like compiz crash
[14:03] <oimon> unity --reset?
[14:04] <popey> compiz --replace
[14:04] <czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/8bintd
[14:05] <popey> put the mouse up there
[14:05] <oimon> oeer missi
[14:05] <popey> or hold down ALT
[14:06] <popey> menu and buttons hide by default
[14:06] <popey> have done for ages
[14:06] <czajkowski> popey: http://twitpic.com/8bioau
[14:06] <czajkowski> danit it not capturing the moue
[14:06] <czajkowski> *mouse
[14:06] <popey> does the menu not appear when you put the mouse at the top left?
[14:07] <czajkowski>   nope
[14:07] <czajkowski> but does if I go half way down
[14:07] <popey> have you installed all updates?
[14:07] <popey> I'd logout and back in again
[14:09] <czajkowski> yup did more this morning
[14:09] <czajkowski> and mvo could recreate my s/w center bug as well
[14:09] <popey> I am properly liking 12.04
[14:09] <popey> except for the bugs
[14:10] <czajkowski> aye there are some annoying onces
[14:11] <smittix> Might install it this afternoon.
[14:12] <smittix> Is it usable or very buggy?
[14:12] <czajkowski> very useable
[14:12] <czajkowski> some slight annoying bugs
[14:12] <czajkowski> but it's a lot better than previous early stages
[14:12] <oimon> probably subject to breakage when a lot of new packages come down the update chute
[14:13] <popey> we had new x yesterday
[14:13] <popey> very few issues
[14:15] <smittix> Cool, will check it out.
[14:23] <dwatkins> new on stable or testing release, popey?
[15:00] <andylockran> Howdy
[15:07] <dickie_> what do Ido now
[15:11] <DJones> Hello dickie_
[15:13] <dickie_> Hello all
[15:27] <gord> y'know i've been working on unity in its various forms for over two years now. but i still sometimes close the terminal that i started unity with...
[15:30] <popey> gord: you should start unity from tty1
[15:30] <gord> popey, not good for watching debug messages
[15:30] <popey> do it in screen?
[15:30] <popey> then if you close the terminal its fine
[15:31] <gord> true, but really i just need to stop being an idiot
[15:31] <popey> there is that
[15:33] <bigcalm_> Grumble sticks
[15:34] <davmor2> gord: you're not an idiot, a bit of a muppet maybe but not an idiot ;)
[15:34] <bigcalm_> That'll be why then
[15:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: what will be why then
[15:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: why I was having freenode trouble
[15:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: why's that then?
[15:35] <bigcalm> o.O
[15:35] <bigcalm> Net split
[15:36] <bigcalm> And nickserv isn't available for me to identify with
[15:36] <monsterwizard> Is it possible to do a programming internship after my degree?
[15:37] <monsterwizard> is it heard of?
[15:38] <gord> why wouldn't you just go for a full job?
[15:38] <oimon> monsterwizard: i think you are fixated :D
[15:39] <oimon> try to enjoy your degree too!
[15:39] <monsterwizard> gord more job prospects?
[15:39] <monsterwizard> oimon I'm so attached to the grades it's depressing.
[15:40] <gord> monsterwizard, how would having a real job instead of an internship make any difference?
[15:40] <davmor2> monsterwizard: you don't think you'll get experience from a full-time job?
[15:40] <monsterwizard> You're correct :P
[15:40] <oimon> you're wrong
[15:41] <oimon> in my humble opinion...
[15:41] <dwatkins> My first job was effectively an internship - they paid me very little to learn as I went.
[15:41] <monsterwizard> I'm worried that they'll look a my grades..and no one in the entire world will hire me.
[15:41] <dwatkins> grades aren't everything
[15:42] <bigcalm> I got my job with few grades (no A levels or degree)
[15:42] <oimon> by grades, you mean shcool grades or uni exam marks?
[15:42] <dwatkins> I don't have a degree.
[15:42] <monsterwizard> It's mainly group work. I haven't found friends to work with so I get put with the drop outs :/
[15:42] <monsterwizard> uni grades.
[15:42] <oimon> uni grades don't count - only final degree mark counts
[15:43] <czajkowski> http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/01/o2-mobile-numbers-and-web-browsing.html
[15:43] <dwatkins> or experience, oimon ;)
[15:43] <monsterwizard> It's my first year and the grades don't count but I have the chance to do an intership after year two
[15:43] <hamitron> don't uni grades affect the final degree mark? o.O
[15:43] <gord> why on earth does totem send the alt keypress every 30 seconds... if its to stop the screensaver coming up i'm going to scream
[15:43]  * czajkowski hugs gord 
[15:43] <czajkowski> monsterwizard: which uni ?
[15:43] <monsterwizard> West England.
[15:44] <oimon> my sis went there
[15:44] <dwatkins> monsterwizard: a year in industry between 2nd and 3rd year? Which degree, out of interest?
[15:44] <davmor2> gord: muhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa
[15:44] <monsterwizard> Computer Science.
[15:44] <hamitron> monsterwizard, imo, that experience can be useful
[15:44]  * dwatkins agrees with hamitron 
[15:44] <monsterwizard> if they accept me.
[15:44] <dwatkins> My brothers did that, was very useful
[15:44] <hamitron> I didn't do it, and wish I had
[15:45] <monsterwizard> but are you making a living?
[15:45] <dwatkins> likewise, I dropped out before going to work for Siemens in Munich
[15:45] <monsterwizard> can you provide food for yourself?
[15:45]  * dwatkins grins
[15:45] <monsterwizard> While buying the odd electronic device and book?
[15:45] <davmor2> gord: if it's a any key press chage it to tab you'll soon find out :)
[15:45] <dwatkins> monsterwizard: despite what you may have been told, having a degree is not essential in order to get a job you enjoy and that pays well
[15:46] <dwatkins> It's just a very good idea to start off with.
[15:46] <monsterwizard> dwatkins will that be the case in the future as these qualifications become more important.
[15:46] <monsterwizard> ?
[15:47] <dwatkins> monsterwizard: I can't say, but it depends who you're being compared to
[15:47] <oimon> degree isn't esssential but can involve a bit of luck getting started in your career
[15:47] <dwatkins> Imagine you're in an interview against your closest friends at uni, monsterwizard
[15:47] <oimon> i'm sure we have this convo every few weeks. try to chill :D
[15:48] <monsterwizard> haha yeah I must
[15:48] <dwatkins> if you have the edge, more experience etc. you're more likely to get the job
[15:49] <monsterwizard> and just one more question.
[15:49] <monsterwizard> I feel if I become a sys admin I would of failed
[15:49] <monsterwizard> it's not that bad of a job, right?
[15:49] <dwatkins> That's quite a generalisation.
[15:50] <smittix> popey: How do you manage your iPhone within Linux?
[15:50] <hamitron> getting any job you enjoy, is not really failure
[15:50] <smittix> Or don't you?
[15:50] <dwatkins> I'd love to be the sysadmin of an interesting place with fun people, monsterwizard, but I'd hate to be a sysadmin for a small company that's going nowhere
[15:50] <smittix> monsterwizard: I started as a sysadmin
[15:50]  * dwatkins also started as a sysadmin, in a sense
[15:50] <monsterwizard> ahh ok.
[15:51] <smittix> we all have to start somewhere.
[15:51] <popey> smittix: define 'manage' ?
[15:51] <smittix> popey: Do you add content via linux?
[15:51] <popey> no
[15:51] <smittix> ahh
[15:51] <popey> i pull photos off it with shotwell
[15:52] <oimon> sysadmin with linux is fun. sysadmin with windows is downtime and patching and apologising and stomach aches.  just my experience
[15:52] <monsterwizard> smittix you're right
[15:52] <monsterwizard> But I do want to be involved in creating something.
[15:52] <monsterwizard> I love building stuffs.
[15:52] <oimon> i create happiness
[15:52] <dwatkins> oimon: depends on the office, our sysadmin is fairly chilled-out, doesn't need to worry about updates etc.
[15:52] <oimon> and build infrastructure
[15:53] <dwatkins> oimon: are you building the great British firewall? ;)
[15:53] <oimon> is there one?
[15:54] <dwatkins> oimon: not that I'm aware of, I'm being silly about the US laws which were proposed, SOPA, PIPA etc.
[15:54] <smittix> Where I started was an SME. With a terrible infrastructure.
[15:54] <oimon> maybe my feigned ignorance is proof that i'm working on it
[15:55] <smittix> So I had the chance to prove myself.
[15:55] <dwatkins> oimon: cunning
[15:55]  * dwatkins hands oimon a fox to pet
[15:55]  * oimon installs linux on it
[15:55]  * bigcalm would like nickserv to come back :)
[15:55] <dwatkins> can we just invite it, bigcalm?
[15:55] <Dave2> We all would.
[15:56] <ahayzen> yey i'm back :)
[15:56]  * bigcalm feels naked and exposed
[15:56] <monsterwizard> Anyway, cheers everyone for making me feel better.
[15:57] <ahayzen> ok that was scary wht happened?
[15:57] <jpds> !netsplit | ahayzen
[15:57] <bigcalm> ahayzen: Dave2 had something nasty for lunch
[15:57] <ahayzen> jpds: thx
[15:57] <ahayzen> bigcalm: lol
[15:57] <bigcalm> Or what jpds pointed at
[15:58] <dwatkins> czajkowski / TheOpenSourcerer - http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/01/o2-mobile-numbers-and-web-browsing.html
[15:58] <davmor2> gord: hud why is it not showing me urls from history in FF?
[15:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Seen it. Thanks.
[15:58] <davmor2> gord: it does on the video ;)
[15:58] <bigcalm> davmor2: we should get a live demonstration of a fully working system tomorrow ;)
[15:59] <gord> davmor2, iruno,  maybe it hates you? i don't really do the backend ;)
[15:59] <bigcalm> Haha
[15:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> And cz<tab> already posted that link
[15:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> (15:43:08) czajkowski: http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/01/o2-mobile-numbers-and-web-browsing.html
[15:59] <dwatkins> oh cool, TheOpenSourcerer :)
[15:59] <czajkowski> dwatkins: thanks though
[15:59] <dwatkins> welcome :)
[16:00] <dwatkins> I was on the phone when you pasted this, czajkowski - thought it was the original story
[16:00] <dwatkins> anyhoo, moving on...
[16:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> It was interesting how "relatively" quickly the issue spread and got dealt with. I doubt that would have happened without Twitter/Facebook etc.
[16:01] <davmor2> gord: gee that's okay then ;)
[16:01] <dwatkins> absolutely, TheOpenSourcerer
[16:01] <AlanBell> "We share mobile numbers with selected trusted partners for 3 reasons: 1) to manage age verification, which manages access to adult content," that is reassuring
[16:01] <dwatkins> I was just wondering about that too, AlanBell - how do they know my age, though?
[16:02] <Dave2> You pay £1 via a credit card
[16:02] <popey> they dont, but they know if you have a credit card
[16:02] <dwatkins> gotcha
[16:02] <Dave2> (They then give you £2.50 credit)
[16:02] <AlanBell> you can phone up and get the age bar lifted, you have to do that if you want to get access to hardcore sites like the ubuntu forums
[16:02] <Dave2> You don't need to phone up any more, I did it all online.
[16:02] <popey> Phwoar!
[16:02] <dwatkins> all that sedicious content...
[16:02] <hamitron> forums are just too exciting ;/
[16:03] <AlanBell> it was Orange that classified them as 18+ I think
[16:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> They also block (censor) access to Tor apparently... https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tale-new-censors-vodafone-uk-t-mobile-uk-o2-uk-and-t-mobile-usa As does most other UK mobile telcos
[16:04] <AlanBell> I had a tedious conversation with Orange about the forums once
[16:05] <davmor2> AlanBell: let me guess they saw it as a chat client and didn't want minors exposed to it
[16:05] <AlanBell> "can you adjust your filter to not include this site?" "yes sir, I will change your settings so you can look at all the porn you want sir . . ." "no, that isn't what I mean . . ."
[16:05] <oimon> "can you reclassify the site as non-adult"
[16:05] <AlanBell> went round in circles for 10 minutes and I gave up
[16:05] <oimon> who does the classification? orange or 3rd party?
[16:06] <AlanBell> 3rd party
[16:06] <AlanBell> it might have changed now, that was some years ago when 3g dongles were a novelty
[16:08]  * bigcalm bounces
[16:36] <KrisDouglas> What is the point in relationships, very stressful and you can't use your computer 24/7 :)
[16:36] <popey> →  #relationships
[16:36] <KrisDouglas> haha
[16:37] <oimon> is there such a room?
[16:37] <popey> no idea
[16:37] <popey> but it's not here ☺
[16:37] <oimon> maybe at 2 in the morning
[16:37] <oimon> i never read the scrollback..i don't know what happens in here at the lonely hour of 2am
[16:37] <KrisDouglas> I feel that it's a valid point, ubuntu is too attractive nowadays.
[16:38] <KrisDouglas> Anyway, I actually have a valid question
[16:38] <KrisDouglas> :)
[16:38] <KrisDouglas> With the new Java license, and not being able to distribute it, are you responsible for keeping it up to date on ubuntu?
[16:39] <Neoti_Laptop> anyone know kdenlive and MTL ?
[17:05]  * AlanBell puts the haggis on :)
[17:06] <AlanBell> KrisDouglas: openJDK is the new hotness
[17:06] <AlanBell> sun java is old and busted
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[17:20] <KrisDouglas> AlanBell, when it comes to OJDK, what's its performance like in comparison? I heard it has been improving, but things like Minecraft aren't quite right yet?
[17:21] <popey> i have been running minecraft with ojdk for over a year
[17:22] <andylockran> kewl
[17:22] <KrisDouglas> popey, damn, I feel like I've missed the boat here.
[17:22] <KrisDouglas> popey, how does it run on your machine?
[17:23] <bigcalm> It's only 5 blocks of wood, make a new one
[17:24] <KrisDouglas> bigcalm, hurr.
[17:24] <davmor2> AlanBell: Take the haggis off your head it was a fun gag when you were 10 but not any more ;)
[17:25] <davmor2> KrisDouglas: I run sikuli on ojdk I get the odd issue with rendering but nothing worth writing home about
[17:25] <bigcalm> What's the betting that the Xoom case I ordered will arrive tomorrow?
[17:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: You know it will
[17:30] <bigcalm> Open the Software Centre on the far right monitor to install a new .deb. Admin password window appears on the far left monitor. Odd and confusing as it looks as though nothing is happening
[17:34] <davmor2> bigcalm: write a bug for it I'll pass on the info
[17:35] <bigcalm> I'm using xfce, not sure if that'll make any difference
[17:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: it might :(
[17:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: it may be that you installed on one screen and then went to the other and because of that it opened on the left screen maybe?
[17:38] <bigcalm> davmor2: chromium downloaded a .deb. I clicked and ran it though Software Centre. This is all on the right hand monitor
[17:38] <bigcalm> I believe that my left hand monitor is set as the default one
[17:40] <bigcalm> I live with it, once I realised where the password box had gone ;)
[17:41] <davmor2> bigcalm: see USC triggers policykit for the user password but I'm assuming it should open in the desktop that has focus but I don't know how well xfce handles that
[17:46] <davmor2> w3m you know what's missing an ascii art plugin everyone would browse the web from there tty if only w3m had ascii art :D
[17:47] <bigcalm> I recall playing mplayer and quake through the ascii video driver
[17:47] <bigcalm> Quite enjoyable
[17:48] <popey> KrisDouglas: no different than with sun jdk
[17:48] <davmor2> bigcalm: there is an ascii tv app
[17:49] <KrisDouglas> Interesting, thanks for the info popey, I will have to (re)install it and have a play
[17:49] <KrisDouglas> SIlly old me.
[17:49] <KrisDouglas> Silly8
[17:49] <davmor2> bigcalm: You've never seen static till you see it through ascii art
[17:50] <KrisDouglas> davmor2, I bet that is something else.
[17:50] <brobostigon> reminds of vlc's terminal output.
[17:51] <AlanBell> telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
[17:55] <davmor2> AlanBell: ah starwars from 20th century Text
[18:14] <KrisDouglas> AlanBell, I should have left the office by now. Damn you and your ASCII Starwars!
[18:15] <bigcalm> Heh
[18:21] <danfish> w00t! Despite the problems on the O2/giffgaff network, they've finally sorted my wife's number port :)
[18:22] <danfish> VPN setup for web browsing as well
[18:24] <davmor2> KrisDouglas: Well if you will play rather than work then whose fault is it :P
[18:25] <Azelphur> I ported my number to giffgaff went pretty smoothly :D
[18:25] <Azelphur> Only thing that irritates me about giffgaff is the coverage isn't as good as 3 :(
[18:31] <danfish> Azelphur: my port went fine as well
[18:32] <Azelphur> :D
[18:32] <danfish> The coverage is the same as O2 and in the SE is pretty good
[18:33] <gordonjcp> danfish: giffgaff == O2
[18:33] <gordonjcp> which is why the coverage is the same
[18:33] <Azelphur> lies, SE coverage is bad
[18:33] <Azelphur> At my aunts in Ashford I get no bars a lot of the time :/
[18:34] <Azelphur> and all around my cousins in romney it's bad too
[18:35] <danfish> gordonjcp: exactly!
[18:36] <danfish> Azelphur: mileage may vary - does Ashford have fire yet? :P
[18:36] <Azelphur> lmao
[18:36] <Azelphur> danfish: dunno, you could say that about romney, but Ashford is a major travel hub xD
[18:37] <danfish> Azelphur: true - prob should switch that round
[18:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:38] <danfish> time to bath the monkeys/children
[18:39] <Azelphur> haha, thats odd, according to the map there's masts all over the place right near my aunts
[18:39] <Azelphur> sense, makes none.
[18:40] <danfish> Azelphur: there was a problem with data in the early days of the iphone in the south east - too many iphones!
[18:40] <Azelphur> oh, it found the wrong road that's why, dam having multiple roads with the same name :P
[18:47] <aquarius> birmingham people: you coming out to play on Saturday evening? :)
[19:57] <smittix> Evening all
[19:57] <Azelphur> People on O2/Giffgaff: http://conversation.which.co.uk/technology/o2-sharing-mobile-phone-number-network-provider/
[20:15] <zleap> hello
[20:15] <jacobw> evening
[20:16] <zleap> evening, how are you
[20:18] <jacobw> sedentry, yourself?
[20:18] <jacobw> yo SuperEngineer
[20:18] <popey> Evening slackers
[20:18] <jacobw> evening popey :)
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> yo 2u2 jacobw
[20:19] <bigcalm> Morning popey
[20:19] <jacobw> gmt relevant salutations only
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> Good $DAY_PART, $PERSON
[20:20] <bigcalm> The thought of going to Wolverhampton tomorrow is making me feel tired now. Not a good start
[20:20] <jacobw> where are you now?
[20:20] <bigcalm> Newport, Shropshire
[20:20] <bigcalm> I should check time trains
[20:21] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: oh scheiss - that's where the boss lives - you don't know me - never heard of me - i don't exist etc
[20:21] <zleap> hi,  got some news today,  computer programming group i suggested to local youth service,  has been approved in principle,  i need to sort out some paperwork, then start to promote / advertise the group
[20:22] <Azelphur> zleap: sounds awesome :D
[20:22] <bigcalm> Heh
[20:22] <jacobw> :D
[20:22] <zleap> yep
[20:22] <bigcalm> I work from home. Tomorrow is a monthly work place day with some mostly Canonical people
[20:22] <jacobw> do you have enough instructors zleap ?
[20:23] <zleap> i am going to stick to open source  or free software tools, e.g python,  scratch,  ruby,  etc,  as these are available to everyone,  I am sure Visual studio education edition has restrictions
[20:23] <Azelphur> zleap: nice :D
[20:23] <Azelphur> +1 for python
[20:23] <zleap> jacobw, well i am looking at kids teaching them selves and getting help from peers,   after all the raspberry pi people want to get back to what we had in the 80's where people were self motivated
[20:24] <dwatkins> zleap: I like the idea of using free stuffs, hope all goes well :)
[20:24] <zleap> however having somewhere to meet up and swap notes,  get help from others is a good thing to teach collaboration
[20:24] <jacobw> sounds great
[20:24] <zleap> dwatkins, yeah,  well the budget is probably zero, they can install scratch and kidsruby freely
[20:24] <dwatkins> I have a friend who teaches ICT, he tries to teach "word processing" as opposed to "how to use MS Word" and other such things
[20:25] <zleap> sounds good
[20:25] <dwatkins> better to have them learn how stuff works and that the computer is a tool etc. than where to click, I'd say
[20:25] <jacobw> i'm not quite what word processing is supposed to be
[20:25] <zleap> i am also going to try and get people in to helping with OSS projects as this i think is a good way to show what you can do,  get respect from the community etc
[20:25] <Azelphur> zleap: where is this going on?
[20:25] <zleap> local youth centre in Paignton
[20:26] <dwatkins> zleap: I suspect there will also be a lot of people asking for help fixing computers ;)
[20:26] <Azelphur> dam you and your being on the wrong side of England :(
[20:26] <dwatkins> I had a reputation where I used to live in a block of flats as the computer guy as I was spotted carrying various SGI machines into the flat when I moved in
[20:26] <zleap> yeah,  well this is aimed at young pepple 11+  , oh yeah i got asked for some help yesterday  so could end up fixing things,
[20:27] <Azelphur> dwatkins: haha, I have that reputation amongst anyone that knows me, I don't particularly mind
[20:27] <Azelphur> I just follow a simple policy, If (windows box) { nope not helping }
[20:27] <smittix> COD4 time
[20:27] <dwatkins> heh, I'm quite a long way from Paignton - 500 miles
[20:28] <Azelphur> barring special circumstances anyway
[20:28] <dwatkins> Azelphur: yeah, I don't mind either - it's amusing when I get questions on facebook like "we reset the laptop to factory settings but Vista still boots up, what do we do to reset it?"
[20:28] <Azelphur> dwatkins: 266 here :(
[20:28] <zleap> Azelphur, i know someone in brixixham like that,,  however he is willing to help fix windows as long as they agree to try Linux,   so far quite a few people have asked for help migrating to Linux as its better
[20:28] <Azelphur> dwatkins: haha :D
[20:28]  * dwatkins is in Edinburgh
[20:28] <dwatkins> I'm guessing they'd just reset the BIOS, Azelphur
[20:28] <Azelphur> zleap: yea, I'm sort of like that, If you've got a decent reason for sticking to Windows I will generally help, or if your willing to give Linux a shot :)
[20:29] <Azelphur> random things, I made a cool IRC bot in python+twisted with in 30 minutes
[20:29] <dwatkins> zleap: for these same people, I put Ubuntu on their hard disk as a backup OS, since their kids had managed to riddle Windows with viruses, so they could still get online and do stuff when (not if) it happened again
[20:29] <zleap> ideally what i would like to do is bring in external groups,  to give talks,   on related subjects,   or organise events where this can happen,
[20:29] <jacobw> what does it use twisted for?
[20:30] <Azelphur> jacobw: IRC?
[20:30] <Azelphur> twisted being a networking framework and all
[20:30] <jacobw> yus
[20:30] <Azelphur> lol
[20:30] <jacobw> i would have thought python had its own irc modules
[20:30] <Azelphur> basically, it can send notifications from pretty much anything to IRC
[20:30] <dwatkins> handy
[20:30] <zleap> dwatkins, sounds a good plan  I have a stack of Linux cd's here,  from 10.04. 10.10 and some 11.04
[20:31] <Azelphur> for example, typing "uptime | irc" in a terminal results in (20:20:53) `TheServer:  15:21:24 up 20 days, 19:52,  3 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.06, 0.09
[20:31] <Azelphur> :D
[20:31] <dwatkins> zleap: trouble is, they understood windows little enough, Ubuntu confused them as they didn't know what to do with it
[20:31] <dwatkins> "Where's the internet, you know, the blue 'e'...?"
[20:31] <Azelphur> so I just have a bash script that monitors when game updates are available, and it just echo "Update available" | irc \o/
[20:31] <zleap> well if its introduced properly  by people who care (like me) then that may change
[20:31] <dwatkins> indeed, zleap :)
[20:32] <popey> dwatkins: thats just a user education thing
[20:32] <zleap> anyway raspberry PI runs Linux, I want to promote that too
[20:32] <popey> i gave ubuntu to a guy who went "Oh, firefox! I know that!"
[20:32] <popey> i haven't heard from him since
[20:32] <zleap> this is where the open cd is handy  people get used to the same software that is in Linux
[20:32] <bigcalm> :(
[20:32] <dwatkins> I setup a machine once for someone who insisted on using some hoopy website's software for chatting to people, she'd been on there years. It had its own custom client, but of course was windows-only.
[20:32] <dwatkins> I spent hours installing anti-malware software.
[20:33] <popey> heh, nice
[20:33] <jacobw> show new users a 'hacker' pose of multipe tmux windows on a console with vi open and editting some network stack code and tcpdump capturing something
[20:33] <zleap> well the place where i am doing this is literally 5 mins away,  so a  chance of perhaps getting some sort of Ubuntu related event down here,  I want things like bar camps and unconferences too,  so people can showcase what they can do
[20:36] <zleap> when i first met with the volujnteer co-ordiator she suggest we have a open day type thing so people interested can come along,  i vision either a hand ful of kids or a huge group turning up,  in the case of teh latter it could change things slightly due to the level of interest
[20:38] <AlanBell> Azelphur: can you do tail -f | irc ?
[20:39] <Azelphur> AlanBell: haha, I wonder, let me try :P
[20:39] <jacobw> should definately
[20:40]  * jacobw ponders
[20:40] <Azelphur> AlanBell: yes, that works :)
[20:41] <AlanBell> cool :)
[20:41] <AlanBell> can I have a copy?
[20:41] <Azelphur> yea sure, It's not too pretty but I'll zip it up :)
[20:41] <AlanBell> thanks
[20:41]  * jacobw is also interested
[20:41] <popey> ditto
[20:41] <Azelphur> In that case I'll pretty it up a bit and github it
[20:42] <jacobw> don't break it! ;)
[20:42] <Azelphur> haha
[20:42] <AlanBell> I am not too worried about pretty
[20:42] <AlanBell> twisted is a good framework
[20:42] <Azelphur> well, just enough so that you don't have to dive into the code to get it to do things :P
[20:43]  * popey resists making jokes about AlanBell and 'pretty'
[20:43] <jacobw> i've been messing with perl today
[20:43] <jacobw> my brain hurts
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: I mess with perl for a living.
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: My brain doesn't.
[20:43] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: i pity thee
[20:43] <jacobw> meh meh
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: it pays well ;)
[20:44] <jacobw> i like `if ($foo =~ /bar/)` etc
[20:45] <jacobw> i prefer the regular expressions in perl to those in python
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> What don't you like?
[20:46] <jacobw> re.compile(etc)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> no in Perl :)
[20:47] <jacobw> oh
[20:47] <jacobw> mostly DBI
[20:48] <Azelphur> now I actually have to figure out how to use github :D
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> DBI is better than how PHP does it. Prepared statements!
[20:48] <jacobw> ha
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: also, DBIx::Class makes it even better (ORM)
[20:48] <Azelphur> and git, haha
[20:48] <jacobw> better than PHP isn't great :p
[20:48]  * jacobw will look in to that
[20:49] <jacobw> also, perl can't decide if its OO or not
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/DBIx::Class
[20:49] <jacobw> perhaps perl6 will decide
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: https://metacpan.org/module/Moose is the solution for that problem
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> perl6 is dead imho. Or at least a completely separate language
[20:51] <jacobw> i'm not sure there's much demand for a new version of perl
[20:51] <AlanBell> Azelphur: or launchpad and bzr
[20:51] <jacobw> its the modules that people depend on not the language features
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: the 5.*-version is still going strong.
[20:51] <Azelphur> AlanBell: haha
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> and they're going to do deprecation of the REALLY odd bits
[20:54] <jacobw> :)
[21:02] <zleap> is there a perl 7 then or is perl 6 an upgrade from perl 5
[21:03] <brobostigon> !info perl unstable
[21:04] <brobostigon> !info perl experimental
[21:04] <Azelphur> AlanBell jacobw popey https://github.com/Azelphur/Twisted-IRCat here you go :D
[21:05] <jacobw> cheers man
[21:06] <popey> nice one
[21:06] <Azelphur> :)
[21:39] <palnj> hi guys :P
[21:48] <zleap> hi,  palnj long time no see, how ya doin ?
[21:48] <palnj> very well, thanks, zleap
[21:48] <zleap> good
[21:48] <palnj> i had a ton of coursework to do :P
[21:48] <zleap> ah
[21:49] <palnj> exams and stuff
[21:49] <palnj> Science, mainly
[21:49] <zleap> ah
[21:49] <zleap> how did they go >
[21:49] <zleap> ?
[21:49] <palnj> found it proper easy most of the time though :) which was good (obviously)
[21:49] <zleap> cool,
[21:49] <palnj> i get my results March 16th...so i dont know (yet)
[21:49] <AlanBell> thanks Azelphur
[21:49] <Azelphur> yw :D
[21:50] <zleap> well good luck and hope you did well :)
[21:50] <popey>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16731071
[21:52] <jacobw> woop woop
[21:54] <AlanBell> "When you've been using it for a little while it seems like it's reading your mind, in a good way." if you have the correct sort of mind
[21:55] <jacobw> palnj: which science?
[21:55] <palnj> jacobw: all three, but only the first three modules
[21:56] <jacobw> seperate sciences?
[21:56] <palnj> doing modules 4/5/6 for bio/phys/chem at the end of this year and then module 7 (adv. science / applying principles) end of next year :P
[21:56] <jacobw> my school did double award when i did my gcses
[21:56] <palnj> yep, i'm in year 10
[21:56] <jacobw> that sounds great ;)
[21:56] <palnj> ah, I do triple Science
[21:56] <palnj> Three exams over two years for each Science
[21:56] <palnj> So nine exams in total
[21:56] <jacobw> are you planning to do science a levels?
[21:58] <bigcalm> Made use of the Ubuntu font via google fonts in a new client project. It's still in dev so unlikely to make it to production. But it's pleasing me none the less
[22:01] <AlanBell> I put it on all kinds of places as the default font, but not via google fonts
[22:04] <gordonjcp> hmm, I tried the HUD on 12.04 but pressing alt just brings up the normal menu
[22:05] <gordonjcp> any hints on how to troubleshoot it?
[22:05] <AlanBell> yeah, you need faster fingers
[22:05] <AlanBell> just a quick tippy tap of the alt key
[22:06] <jacobw> sudo apt-get install faster-fingers
[22:06] <AlanBell> pebkac
[22:07] <gordonjcp> hmm
[22:07] <gordonjcp> now I have no menu at all
[22:09] <bigcalm> 120 updates for the laptop. Best do this now rather than on iffy wifi in Wolverhampton tomorrow
[22:09] <AlanBell> I have had the hud installed all day and have not used it once
[22:10] <gordonjcp> okay, restarted X, if I just tap <ALT> I get a brief flash of the normal menu
[22:12] <AlanBell> unity3d?
[22:13] <popey> gord: is it intentional that if you tap alt, then tap it again to get rid of HUD, the window that has focus loses it?
[22:14] <popey> if you press escape instead of alt, you get focus back to your app, but not if you alt, then alt
[22:14] <AlanBell> there is a bug about that
[22:18] <gord> oh really? i knew about the losing focus thing but didn't know it worked with escape
[22:18] <popey> yeah, reproducable
[22:19] <AlanBell> gord: are bugs supposed to be in unity now?
[22:20] <AlanBell> not indicator-appmenu
[22:20] <gord> depends if its a shell bug or a backend bug
[22:20] <gord> popey's bug is a shell bug
[22:20] <gord> "doesn't find x" is a backend bug
[22:21] <AlanBell> ok
[22:22] <popey> gord: what should I file this against?
[22:25] <AlanBell> bug 921249
[22:25] <popey> excellent thanks
[22:40] <gord> wish i could figure out the power management problems in ubuntu, makes me sad to hear that fan constantly whining whilst if i log in to windows its all silent
[22:40] <gord> even if i completely shut down X and any session, it carries on. can't be something in the user space
[22:43] <popey> bug 921450
[22:43] <popey> most annoying bug of the moment
[22:45] <gordonjcp> ah, it needs to be unity, not unity 2d
[22:46] <gord> not quite
[22:46] <gord> i'm obviously in unity and i don't get lockups
[22:46] <gord> I've seen the youtube causing things to get laggy and unresponsive thing on intel though
[22:46] <gordonjcp> sorry, that was in reference to my own lack of HUD
[22:46] <gord> felt like it was a memory leak in youtube
[22:46] <gord> ah
[22:47] <gordonjcp> yeah, I'm on intel graphics
[22:47] <gordonjcp> unity 3d doesn't really work
[22:47] <gordonjcp> I've been logged in for three minutes and now all four case and CPU fans are screaming at full speed
[22:48] <gordonjcp> and the display is nothing but stripy garbage
[22:48] <gordonjcp> but HUD is pretty cool
[22:48] <gord> your drivers don't work ;)
[22:48] <gord> stripy garbage = driver texture corruption
[22:48] <gord> especially on intel
[22:49] <gordonjcp> yup
[22:49] <gordonjcp> I know
[22:49] <gordonjcp> is there a way to get normal menus too?
[22:49] <gord> menus are there
[22:49] <gordonjcp> where?
[22:50] <gord> in the top bar? where they always are
[22:51] <gordonjcp> nope
[22:51] <popey> ooo lightdm has regressed in latest update
[22:51] <gordonjcp> they're not there
[22:51] <popey> no option for changing session
[22:51] <gordonjcp> I had to switch back to Unity 2d
[22:52] <gordonjcp> a) the stripy garbage was annoying me, and b) gedit wasn't working well in HUD
[22:52] <gordonjcp> nothing from any of the menus come up
[22:52] <gordonjcp> well, you can open some files
[22:57] <bigcalm> Gosh darn it
[22:57] <bigcalm> This Symfony 1.4 project is now 318MB in svn
[22:58] <gord> apport is being a pain in the bum tonight :(
[23:00] <bigcalm> Must remember to take cash tomorrow morning!
[23:03] <popey> bug 921867
[23:03] <popey> anyone fancy rebooting to see if they get that in 12.04?
[23:05] <AlanBell> popey: so you can still log in and get to the desktop right?
[23:09] <popey> yes
[23:09] <popey> but the desktop looks like it has no theme
[23:10] <gordonjcp> hmm
[23:10] <gordonjcp> now menus just plain don't appear
[23:10] <AlanBell> upgrading now popey
[23:11] <gordonjcp> man, this is going to be the fourth reinstall since monday
[23:11] <gordonjcp> this is getting pretty old
[23:12] <gordonjcp> granted the first two turned out to be due to a failing hard disk
[23:12] <gord> you know about ppa purge right? just downgrade your indicator-appmenu
[23:12] <gordonjcp> gord: that still leaves me with 12.04
[23:13] <gordonjcp> my PC is struggling to run it
[23:13] <popey> i forsee myself buying a thinkpad tomorrow
[23:13] <gord> if you get an x220, you get to join the rest of us in the secret club
[23:14] <gord> no macbooks allowed
[23:14] <gordonjcp> I wish I was in a position to buy a PC that can run Ubuntu
[23:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Automated ssh reconnects and handling slow connections - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2012/01/25/automated-ssh-reconnects-and-handling-slow-connections/
[23:15] <gordonjcp> y
[23:15] <gordonjcp> ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
[23:15]  * gordonjcp extracts cat
[23:16] <AlanBell> and back again
[23:24] <popey> AlanBell: you didnt get the issue then?
[23:24] <AlanBell> only part of it
[23:24] <AlanBell> I updated the bug, the cog thing happened a couple of days ago I think, I wasn't sure if it was a bug or a feature
[23:26] <AlanBell> I wish unity stuff would make it more obvious when it is a bug and when it is a feature
[23:26] <AlanBell> another bug/feature thing, the close, minimise, maximise buttons on the dash and hud. Are they supposed to look like that?
[23:27] <ubuntubhoy> if they can fix it, its a  bug. If they cant, its a feature
[23:27] <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: you would think
[23:28] <ubuntubhoy> and as for the buttons, not the best design
[23:29] <AlanBell> some things based on the results of user testing are rather questionable features
[23:29] <ubuntubhoy> HUD you can excuse
[23:29] <ubuntubhoy> but dash should be more polished by now
[23:29] <AlanBell> you get just the red and white badly anti-aliased outline buttons?
[23:29] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[23:29] <ubuntubhoy> not updated today though
[23:34] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: you will be pleased to know I just lost my menus
[23:35] <AlanBell> HUD still works (for small values of works)
[23:36] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah, it looks like it has potential but it's not *quite* there yet ;-)
[23:36] <AlanBell> yeah, which is fine
[23:36] <gordonjcp> I ran ppa-purge to get back the non-HUD appmenu
[23:36] <AlanBell> there is a mahusive bug in the search at the moment that means if you type a full word it won't find that word
[23:36] <gordonjcp> and it really went on what I can only describe as a PCP-fuelled shotgun rampage
[23:36] <AlanBell> so it does fuzzy matching great, but you have to be a fuzzy person to use hud
[23:37] <gordonjcp> yeah, I noticed that
[23:37] <gordonjcp> I still find the matching in the alt-f2 window not exactly great
[23:37]  * AlanBell is not sufficiently fuzzy to use HUD
[23:37] <gordonjcp> type "gnome-terminal" and most of the time you'll get "gnome-calculator"
[23:37] <mgdm_> Does it cater for the "I don't know what I'm looking for but I'll know when I find it so I'm reading all the menus" use case?
[23:37] <mgdm_> Because without that, I can't work GUI apps
[23:37] <gordonjcp> in fact, as I just found out there, I can repeatably get it to do this
[23:38] <AlanBell> mgdm_: no, it caters for the "um, think it is called options or something like that" use case
[23:38] <gordonjcp> press alt-f2, type "gnome-terminal", wait for 30 seconds or so until it finishes searching, click on the gnome-terminal icon, and it starts gnome-calculator
[23:38] <AlanBell> actually the "I think it is called opti or something like that" use case. "Options" won't work
[23:38] <mgdm_> AlanBell: hmmmm
[23:39] <gordonjcp> I really just want alt-f2 to work the way it did in Gnome 2, or XFCE, or if you're using lxpanel
[23:39] <mgdm_> AlanBell: what about typing 'Preferences' when the app calls it 'Options', or vice-versa?
[23:39] <AlanBell> mgdm_: the discoverable menus are still there
[23:39] <mgdm> aaaah, ok
[23:39] <mgdm> I misread
[23:39] <AlanBell> mgdm: that should in theory work or be made to work
[23:39] <AlanBell> as long as you call it preferen
[23:40] <mgdm> I do find that when I'm on the Mac, 90% of the time I forget about the dock and just use Spotlight or occasionally Alfred to start things
[23:40] <mgdm> so I can imagine it would work for me, but I want my pointy-clicky fallback :-)
[23:41] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/hudcontrols.png are those the min/max/close buttons other people see on the dash/hud?
[23:41] <ubuntubhoy> as an additional interface option it might prove useful, just as long as it is not intended to replace anything
[23:41] <ubuntubhoy> AlanBell, yeah
[23:42] <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: I don't see how it can replace menus, it relies on the applications being designed to have menus in order to work
[23:42] <AlanBell> I can imagine people using it in preference to menus most of the time
[23:43] <ubuntubhoy> for me its a kinda Ubutnu Gnome Do thingy
[23:43] <ubuntubhoy> in that way it will work well I think
[23:43] <ubuntubhoy> better integration & more scope
[23:43] <gordonjcp> right, off to reinstall
[23:44] <AlanBell> it is a neat trick, but not massively compelling
[23:44] <AlanBell> lenses are a bigger deal
[23:45] <AlanBell> just wish they would provide a framework for doing lenses that require authentication
[23:47] <ubuntubhoy> weird, net split on every other channel I'm on but here, and this is the busiest
[23:48] <AlanBell> it is a bit splitty today
[23:48] <gordonjcp> I know 12.04 is only an alpha but I really hope that's nothing like representative of the finished version
[23:48] <ubuntubhoy> still 3 months to go
[23:49] <popey> 2.5 ☺
[23:49] <gordonjcp> I tried it on a new PC at work
[23:49] <gordonjcp> it's *just about* usable on an i5 with 4G of RAM
[23:50] <ubuntubhoy> popey, I always wait a couple of weeks before downloading or updating installs that I need :d
[23:50] <popey> heh
[23:50] <gordonjcp> my desktop at home is somewhat behind the curve, being a 3GHz P4 with 2G of RAM
[23:50] <popey> works fine on my 2.2GHz laptop
[23:50] <popey> pretty snippy
[23:50] <popey> dual core though, which I guess helps
[23:51] <AlanBell> Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU       M 330  @ 2.13GHz works well
[23:51] <gordonjcp> popey: on my desktop it sits at 100% CPU usage and 100% RAM usage, with just the desktop and a single terminal
[23:51] <popey> sweet
[23:51] <gordonjcp> all the fans screaming away full blast
[23:51] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[23:51] <ubuntubhoy> works ok on my netbook
[23:52] <AlanBell> Cpu(s):  2.6%us,  2.1%sy,  0.0%ni, 95.3%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
[23:52] <popey> bedlington
[23:52] <popey> nn all
[23:52] <popey> Cpu(s):  1.7%us,  0.3%sy,  0.0%ni, 97.8%id,  0.2%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
[23:52] <popey> with firefox, 2 terminals and thunderbird open
[23:52] <popey> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz
[23:52] <popey> :D
[23:53] <gordonjcp> yeah, it would be nice if Ubuntu could be run on something other than the latest and greatest
[23:53] <gordonjcp> ;-)
[23:53] <AlanBell> I do have 8GB ram, and it is using 3233 of it
[23:54] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah, if it's going to take that much memory I'll switch distros
[23:54] <gordonjcp> I don't like Unity *that* much
[23:55] <AlanBell> I dunno what it is doing with the ram, I do have a few applications open, no virtual machines though
[23:56] <gordonjcp> urgh, I give up
[23:56] <gordonjcp> I need some stuff packaged for Ubuntu
[23:56] <gordonjcp> who wants paid to do it?
[23:56] <AlanBell> and I am driving a reasonably large desktop http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/desktop.png
[23:57] <AlanBell> is it stuff that can go into Debian first?
[23:57] <gordonjcp> maybe
[23:57] <gordonjcp> ie. there's nothing stopping it going into Debian first
[23:58] <gordonjcp> apart from the sheer opacity of the debian packaging process
[23:59] <AlanBell> yeah, it does rather expect you to know 20 years of evolution