[00:45] <len> ScottL: I am downloading the live iso. The alt doesn't seem to be updating any more. (probably correct)
[01:35] <ScottL> ailo__, i think it's amazing that an email such as yours can generate so much response from so many deeply involved people in jack
[01:36] <falktx> where?
[01:36] <ScottL> not that it's you specifically, but rather than everyman can do such a thing and perhaps start the discussion that causes a fundamental and sweeping changes
[01:36]  * falktx is missing the action
[01:36] <ScottL> falktx, it's on the ubuntustudio-devel mailing list
[01:37] <falktx> hm, that wasn't much
[01:37] <ScottL> my description or the mail thread?
[01:37] <falktx> the mail thread
[01:38] <falktx> the LAU list went flamewar mode recently with the bitwig thing
[01:38] <falktx> http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/187469/search/subject
[01:38] <falktx> and I'm not sure if that is all
[01:39] <ScottL> oh crap, it's on jack-devel mailing list
[01:40] <ScottL> but you have to be subscribed to get it
[01:40] <ScottL> falktx, i posted a thread about the work items left for precise
[01:41] <ScottL> falktx, i'm hoping that either you or astraljava will handle the ubiquity plugin
[01:55] <falktx> ScottL: can you see this page? -> http://lists.jackaudio.org/private.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org/2012-January/008966.html
[01:58] <falktx> I need to check how easy/hard the ubiquity work is
[02:10] <ScottL> falktx, yes, i can see that page
[02:11] <falktx> ScottL: ah, then you got the jack devel ML thread about this
[02:11] <ScottL> falktx, yes that was the one i was talking about
[02:12] <falktx> ah, then yes, it generated a lot of response
[02:13] <ScottL> i like seeing torben, paul, nedko, et al in their talking about it....it just might make a huge difference
[02:16] <TheMuso> ScottL: I will get to the kernel tonight hopefully, been rather busy, and after the rally, the weekend was the first time I had time off since I got back so did very little.
[02:16] <TheMuso> ScottL: As for the jack-dev thread, how is it progressing?
[02:16] <TheMuso> Ultimately, jack shoudl use consolekit/whatever does consolekit functionality, like systemd et al... *shudder*
[03:18] <ScottL> looks like live-dvd is building now :)  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/
[03:18] <ScottL> i look forward to hearing len_ 's experience with it
[03:20] <falktx> woot! the magic happened
[03:20] <falktx> US live dvd
[03:46] <Len_on_live_dvd> Well, ScottL and all, the live DVD boots.
[03:47] <falktx> yay!
[03:48] <Len_on_live_dvd> I was able to boot from the SD in the side slot but still got a K panic when I tried to connect to net.
[03:48] <Len_on_live_dvd> Switched it to usb adaptor and it is ok.
[03:49] <Len_on_live_dvd> Um, this is no good...
[03:49] <Len_on_live_dvd> audio:x:29:pulse
[03:50] <Len_on_live_dvd> mudita24 not found
[03:57] <Len_on_live_dvd> foo yc20, I'm not running it now, but when I have tried it before. Seems to use a LOT of cpu
[03:58] <Len_on_live_dvd> So much that virtkeyboard misses key press/release events.
[03:59] <ScottL> Len_on_live_dvd, that is awesome :)
[04:01] <Len_on_live_dvd> I think I will try the live install now....
[04:01] <ScottL> i'm curious to how the performance will be from the dvd as well
[04:02] <Len_on_live_dvd> Hard to tell. Jack does run even with no audio group.
[04:02] <Len_on_live_dvd> This little netbook is maybe not the best test.
[04:04] <Len_on_live_dvd> a2jmidid gives:Cannot use real-time scheduling
[04:12] <ailo__> Len_on_live_dvd: jack runs in realtime without audio group?
[04:12] <Len_on_live_dvd> virtkeybd -> a2j->zynjacku->calforgan->jackd gives clear sound no bad messages in jackd logging
[04:13] <Len_on_live_dvd> Wed Jan 25 03:59:12 2012: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10
[04:14] <ailo__> ScottL: I'm invigorated by the fact that a simple question can get people to start talking, but that really only shows that it has already been on peoples minds, but no one was putting it in priority yet. Perhaps something comes out from it. At least it seems the jackd package might administer the audio group for us when it is updated next time.
[04:15] <ailo__> Len_on_live_dvd: It just seems impossible that it would run without audio group. 
[04:15] <ailo__> I will give it a try as well
[04:16] <ailo__> Len_on_live_dvd: Give a link to the download :P
[04:17] <Len_on_live_dvd> I'll have to find it again...
[04:19] <Len_on_live_dvd> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
[04:19] <Len_on_live_dvd> ailo__ ^^^
[04:20] <ailo__> Len_on_live_dvd: Thanks!
[04:26] <Len_on_live_dvd> hmm, ubuntu-studio@ubuntu-studio:/media$ sudo bash
[04:26] <Len_on_live_dvd> root@ubuntu-studio:/media# 
[04:27] <ailo__> Len_on_live_dvd: That explains it :)
[04:27] <falktx> rm -rf /media/*
[04:27] <ailo__> Oh, I missed the command :P
[04:27] <falktx> ailo__: live-user is like a normal user, but doesn't have password
[04:27] <falktx> don't confuse that
[04:28] <falktx> it's still like a admin user, like it was installed
[04:28] <ailo__> falktx: I'm still wondering about how he's getting realtime without being in audio group
[04:28] <falktx> but because password is blank, you won't need to type password
[04:28] <falktx> so:
[04:28] <falktx> sudo echo 1
[04:28] <falktx> will always work on live-dvd
[04:28] <falktx> ailo__: he's not, I would bet
[04:28] <Len_on_live_dvd> I am not sure if I have realtime or not a2j says not.
[04:30] <ailo__> Len_on_live_dvd: jackd starts in realtime by default, but you could try to give it the --realtime argument just to be sure
[04:31] <falktx> Len_on_live_dvd: there's an option for force realtime and fail if not possible (I think)
[04:31] <falktx> maybe it was in my dreams...?
[04:33] <Len_on_live_dvd> sorry doing some copying in case my install does something weird.
[04:36] <Len_on_live_dvd> ubuntu-studio@ubuntu-studio:~$ cat .jackdrc
[04:36] <Len_on_live_dvd> /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2
[04:39] <falktx> Len_on_live_dvd: you're missing '-R' or -r, don't know which
[04:39] <falktx> hm, I don't even have jackd here!
[04:39] <falktx> :)
[04:39]  * falktx is fully working on jackdbus only mode for weeks now
[04:41] <Len_on_live_dvd> ubuntu-studio@ubuntu-studio:~$ /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2 --realtime
[04:41] <Len_on_live_dvd> gives:
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> jackdmp 1.9.7
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> Copyright 2004-2011 Grame.
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
[04:42] <Len_on_live_dvd> Cannot create thread 1 Operation not permitted
[04:42] <falktx> ah, so no rt privileges
[04:43] <Len_on_live_dvd> Yet qjackctl has the realtime box checked.
[04:43] <Len_on_live_dvd> It must play some games with things.
[04:44] <falktx> Len_on_live_dvd: jack no longer "not starts" when rt is enabled but not possible
[04:44] <Len_on_live_dvd> But it does write a sane .jackdrc
[04:45] <falktx> Len_on_live_dvd: because rt is default
[04:45] <Len_on_live_dvd> OK
[04:45] <falktx> Len_on_live_dvd: if you disable rt, you'll see changes
[04:49] <falktx> later
[04:53] <holstein> W0W!
[04:54] <holstein> im downloading an ubuntustudio live CD!
[04:54] <ailo__> holstein: Do you have a firewire device around?
[04:55] <holstein> ailo__: i do, but i cant get to it tonite
[04:55] <holstein> it'll take another 50 minutes do DL
[04:55] <ailo__> holstein: Would be great if you could check if it runs without realtime - ah :)
[04:55] <holstein> ailo__: yeah... im excited about tryint it out!
[04:56] <holstein> i always thought it was interesting how with the 64studio live CD, firewire worked
[04:56] <holstein> you install... and it didnt
[04:56] <holstein> i mean, out of the box
[05:06] <Len_on_live_dvd> The slide show has some stuff on it we don't use.
[05:07] <Len_on_live_dvd> It also has at least one page where the continue/go back buttons are below the screen.
[05:09] <holstein> Len_on_live_dvd: the installer slide show?
[05:09] <Len_on_live_dvd> The page where it asks for your picture is too big for a netbook.... whats with that anyway?
[05:09] <holstein> is your screen tiny?
[05:09] <Len_on_live_dvd> netbook sized.
[05:10] <Len_on_live_dvd> 11inch?
[05:10] <Len_on_live_dvd> Ja the slides need to be changed
[05:11] <holstein> wonder if we can do that...
[05:11] <holstein> is that all ubiquity?
[05:11] <Len_on_live_dvd> I have yet to get anything that asks what work flows I want
[05:12] <holstein> Len_on_live_dvd: that could be on the way still
[05:12] <Len_on_live_dvd> The slides are standard ubuntu stuff. Ubuntu one, libre office etc
[05:12] <holstein> we gotta grab it from edubuntu and have it changed
[05:13] <Len_on_live_dvd> Yes it would be very confusing being told there was all this stuff being loaded and it not being there.
[05:14] <holstein> yeah, not a deal breaker for me though
[05:14] <Len_on_live_dvd> I got the idea though that at this stage we would be happy if it worked.
[05:14] <holstein> i hopw its editable
[05:14] <holstein> hope*
[05:19] <holstein> i gotta crash... got about 40 minutes left on the DL
[05:19] <holstein> im *so* excited about it!
[05:26] <Len_on_live_dvd> The slideshow is in /usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow
[05:27] <Len_on_live_dvd> if you go to the /slides dir and run index.html in firefox you get the same thing.
[05:27] <Len_on_live_dvd> This is on the live cd directories. I am sure it won't be on the installed version
[05:28] <Len_on_live_dvd> So it  looks like an impress slide show exported to html
[05:29] <Len_on_live_dvd> It should be easy to replace. One of the packages in the dvd or live dvd is a slide show package.
[05:31] <Len_on_live_dvd> synaptic shows many ubiquity-slideshows... we just have to make our own.
[05:32] <Len_on_live_dvd> there is one for edubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu, ubuntu (the one we have) and xubuntu.
[05:35] <Len_on_live_dvd> If we get rid of that picture taking thing, all the frames will fit on a netbook. I should file a bug against ubuiquity though. for not fitting. Is that picture thing in all of them?
[05:36] <Len_on_live_dvd> Anyway, I am going to see what this thing loaded. There was never a time to select work flows yet. So that is missing
[05:53] <len_> Ok, now on the installed version of things.
[05:54] <len_> /usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop link is still missing. Are we sure this not some theme change we have made?
[05:55] <len_> The live dvd seems to have installed all the work flows.
[05:55] <len_> just checking synaptic...
[05:58] <len_> synaptic shows ubuntustudio-audio not installed.
[05:59] <len_> Maybe because all it's deps are already in something else?
[06:00] <len_> audio:x:29:pulse,len   ... good
[06:07] <len_> Even still jackd did not start the first time.
[06:09] <len_> jack says Tue Jan 24 22:02:15 2012: ERROR: Cannot use real-time scheduling (RR/10)(1: Operation not permitted)
[06:09] <len_> Tue Jan 24 22:02:15 2012: ERROR: AcquireSelfRealTime error
[06:09] <len_> Jack quit the first time with:
[06:10] <ailo__> So, we need to add the live user to audio group
[06:10] <len_> 22:02:19.893 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Server communication error. Please check the messages window for more info.
[06:10] <len_> This is with the user in the audio group still no rt
[06:12] <len_> but status says: Realtime Mode: Yes?
[06:13] <ailo__> len_: Could be some hassle with pa as well
[06:13] <ailo__> len_: You installed it on disk now?
[06:13] <len_> could be
[06:13] <ailo__> Oh, you said that
[06:14] <ailo__> len_: You have the file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf in place, right?
[06:14] <len_> pulse is connected through jack ok.
[06:14] <len_> let me check
[06:15] <len_> len@ustudio1204:/etc/security/limits.d$ ls
[06:15] <len_> audio.conf.disabled  ubuntustudio-audio-rtprio.conf
[06:15] <ailo__> len_: Oh, there's a special us file there.
[06:15] <len_> That could be it......
[06:15] <len_> So thats two missing files
[06:16] <ailo__> len_: I haven't installed US since oneiric pre-final, so I've missed out on some things
[06:16] <ailo__> len_: No, it looks  like US is disabling the normal jackd file by introducing its own
[06:16] <ailo__> len_: You could check the contents of both
[06:17] <len_> ailo__ my problem is that I don't really know enough about setting jack up
[06:17] <ailo__> It's important that audo.conf.disable actually does not have @audio in use
[06:17] <ailo__> len_: audio.conf is the file that makes it possible to use realtime for users belonging to audio group
[06:17] <len_> is there supposed to be a link to the us file maybe?
[06:18] <len_> I'll try
[06:18] <ailo__> len_: Just check the contents of both
[06:18] <ailo__> len_: cat /etc/security/limits.d/*
[06:19] <len_>  cat *
[06:19] <len_> # Installed by the ubuntustudio-audio package
[06:19] <len_> @audio   -  rtprio     99
[06:19] <len_> # Provided by the jackd package.
[06:19] <len_> #
[06:19] <len_> # Changes to this file will be preserved.
[06:19] <len_> #
[06:19] <len_> # If you want to enable/disable realtime permissions, run
[06:19] <len_> #
[06:19] <len_> #    dpkg-reconfigure -p high jackd
[06:19] <len_> @audio   -  rtprio     95
[06:19] <len_> @audio   -  memlock    unlimited
[06:19] <len_> #@audio   -  nice      -19
[06:19] <len_> # Installed by the ubuntustudio-audio package
[06:19] <len_> @audio   -  rtprio     99
[06:20] <ailo__> len_: It seems audio.conf is not diabled
[06:20] <ailo__> Instead there are two files trying to do the same thing
[06:20] <ailo__> Renaming the files doesn't matter
[06:21] <ailo__> Those two lines are what makes jack able to use realtime and lock memory
[06:21] <ailo__> For users belonging to audio group
[06:21] <ailo__> If you change @audio to something else, you just make sure the user is member of that group
[06:22] <len_> Ok, so I need to get rid of one of these files?
[06:22] <ailo__> len_: Only one of them is tuning rtprio. I would guess memlock is tuned by one of them. Having two makes it a guessing game which is in use
[06:23] <ailo__> I don't really see the point in having a US specific file there at all
[06:23] <ailo__> No unless it is doing something worth while
[06:24] <ailo__> Like, setting memlock to something else than unlimited, but then it would require a script that checks memory size at boot time and sets it to a good value each time you log in
[06:24] <len_> The second one just has the one line in it. Is 99 a better setting than 95?
[06:24] <ailo__> len_: I don't think it matters a lot
[06:25] <ailo__> Ralph seems to think so. I haven't really made any tests to find out
[06:25] <len_> I'm one of those, "I just want something that works"
[06:26] <len_> I don't really know what all these things do.
[06:26] <ailo__> len_: memlock unlimited can be dangerous, if you run out of memory
[06:26] <ailo__> Or, it can lock up the system
[06:26] <len_> I can figure that
[06:26] <ailo__> But, you can never know how much memory a user has, so in order to find out, you would need a script
[06:26] <ailo__> I will take up this with the jack packagers
[06:27] <len_> OK
[06:27] <ailo__> ScottL: Do you know when /etc/security/limits.d/ubuntustudio-audio-rtprio.conf was introduced, and why?
[06:28] <ailo__> len_: Actually, it is probably disabled
[06:28] <ailo__> len_: I guess the file must end with .conf. Not sure
[06:29] <len_> So we lose memlock then
[06:29] <ailo__> len_: I would need to test it to find out
[06:30] <len_> Should have looked around more while on live dvd ailo__
[06:30] <ailo__> Not sure how much not having memlock affects performance. Never bothered to find out. Not sure if the file must end with .conf
[06:31] <len_> ailo__: I'm going to have to pack it up for the night.
[06:32] <len_> later all.
[07:39] <live-ailo> There is some trouble with dbus and zeitgeist. Takes up a lot of the CPU
[07:40] <live-ailo> Couldnt get PA working with jack. They connect, but no sound
[07:40] <live-ailo> jack was working alright
[07:44] <live-ailo> no realtime of course
[13:06] <scott-work> ailo:  re: /etc/security/limits.d/ubuntustudio-audio-rtprio.conf
[13:06] <scott-work> ailo: i don't know when it was introduced, who did it, or why they thought it was necessary
[13:07] <scott-work> my best suggestion at this moment is to install he ubuntustudio-audio source and grep 'ubuntustudio-audio-rtprio.conf'
[13:07] <scott-work> i would guess it's in an .install file somewhere, but i would guess there is a significant chance i am wrong as well :P
[13:09] <scott-work> oh, by the way, i added a 'build environment' to the seeds similar to all other *buntu versions that have live cd/dvd
[13:09] <scott-work> this would allow us to have gcc and a few others to build drivers and whatnot
[13:09] <scott-work> for testing and debugging within the live environment
[13:09] <scott-work>  
[13:10] <scott-work> i admit that it wasn't some brilliant idea of mine, i simply saw it in the ubuntu/xubuntu desktop seeds :P
[13:17] <ailo> scott-work: I would suggest to take that file away
[13:17] <ailo> I've put a suggestion to Debian Multimedia, the guys packaging jack if they could use a script to make memlock less than limited
[13:18] <ailo> The problem with having two files is that you can easily get things mixed up
[13:18] <ailo> Depending on which order you install stuff
[13:19] <scott-work> ailo: i completely agree, i'm going to poke a few people who i think might have knowledge about it before simply removing it, i will check the source package tonight and see if i can find any clues to the author
[13:19] <scott-work> as well
[13:20] <scott-work> i suppose it could have been added to either the jackd package or the qjackctl package, i know that david h. has added bits of "plumbing" code (e.g. jackdbus) to the qjackctl package
[13:20] <ailo> scott-work: I tried the live DVD today. There's probably a Ubuntu bug that makes dbus not behave well, so I had some performance problems, but other than that, and of course it's not finished yet, it worked well
[13:21] <scott-work> ailo: yay!
[13:21] <ailo> scott-work: The file suggests it was added by ubuntustudio-audio
[13:22] <scott-work> looking at qjackctl you can see quite a lot of changes to make it play nicer with pulseaudio:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/qjackctl/precise
[13:24] <ailo> scott-work: I never got sound from pa, and flash-player hung, so I guess it's not perfectly functional yet
[13:24] <ailo> I mean, while jack was running
[14:00] <scott-work> ailo: ubuntustudio-controls could be used to add users and include them in the 'audio' group
[14:01] <scott-work> this was a thought i had several days ago but was reluctant to inject this thought into the email thread
[14:01] <scott-work> quite frankly, some will disagree with adding another methodology to add users to a system, but this might warrant it
[14:02] <scott-work> with the warning caveats mentioned in the last email about 'this person is being added to the 'audio' group which could be dangerous'
[14:03] <scott-work> 'for more information and education, see _this_ wiki page"
[14:04] <scott-work>  
[14:04] <scott-work> what i would like to do is for various people to do some comprehensive testing and come up with a list of problems that we can address as a group
[14:04] <scott-work> for the live-dvd, i mean
[14:05] <scott-work> if we need to contact cjwatson about items, i think he would prefer it if we were to poke him once with a list, rather than poke him several times with singular items
[14:09] <scott-work> astraljava: are you around?
[14:16] <ailo> scott-work: Since the debian packager is going to do that for us, so need for us to bother with audio group
[14:16] <scott-work> holstein and len:  the ubiqiuty slideshow is on the precise work items:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap
[14:16] <ailo> scott-work: Besides, audio group will not be used for jack anymore
[14:17] <ailo> It'll be rtprio or something like that
[14:17] <scott-work> ailo: i don't remember what they said they would, i'm about to go to an all day meeting so i'll refresh my memory later
[14:17] <ailo> There will probably be a jack-common package that handles that stuff
[14:17] <scott-work> ailo: super cool, that would be nice, and i do remember that
[14:17] <ailo> scott-work: Here's what's going on so far http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=656910
[14:18] <scott-work> ailo: would you look at the work items for precise (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap) and see if there is something that you will head up?
[14:19] <ailo> scott-work: I'm not that sure having sane jack settings is required. The default settings are great in my opinion
[14:19] <ailo> Besides, everyone will want to tune those anyway
[14:20] <ailo> scott-work: I wasn't supposed to get involved that much. I really don't have a lot of time
[14:20] <ailo> I have a deadline and need to do a lot of work for that
[14:20] <ailo> Both school and for our band
[14:21] <ailo> These last days have been a sort of detour
[14:21] <ailo> I would have really liked to work on us-controls exclusively, but I just don't have the time for it
[14:22] <ailo> Maybe one or two release into the future, if one will be required
[16:35] <falktx> ScottL: ping
[17:59] <scott-work> falktx: sorry i missed your ping, storm took computers/internet down for a bit
[18:00] <ailo> scott-work: Lot of mutants in your area?
[18:00] <falktx> scott-work: I don't know where to find the required stuff to work on ubiquity
[18:00] <scott-work> ailo: i don't think so (?)
[18:00] <falktx> scott-work: is this on ubuntustudio bzr?
[18:01] <ailo> scott-work: since you said storm was around there
[18:01] <scott-work> falktx: look in the notes in this blueprint:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-ubuntustudio-livedvd
[18:01] <scott-work> falktx: there isn't any bzr branches at this point
[18:01] <scott-work> falktx: any *ubuntustudio* bzr branches at this point, i should have said
[18:03] <scott-work> ailo: reading the log i see you mentioned the jack default settings
[18:03] <scott-work> ailo:  i think jack had been coming in with 1024 frames a sec
[18:04] <scott-work> ailo: i think we can improve the "works out of the box" appeal by adjusting the setting a bit
[18:04] <scott-work> especially if we get the -lowlatency kernel
[18:05] <scott-work> falktx: if you have specific questions about ubiquity you can always talk to stephane graber who is the author and lead on edubuntu, great guy and bloody brilliant
[18:05] <scott-work> nice as well :)
[18:13] <ailo> ScottL: Not everyone will have a -lowlatency kernel. I think it would be better to take up the case with those who package qjackctl, so we don't end up with tuneup on tuneup
[18:14] <ailo> scott-work: Not everyone will have a -lowlatency kernel. I think it would be better to take up the case with those who package qjackctl, so we don't end up with tuneup on tuneup
[18:15] <ailo> Personally, I don't see why it is a big deal.
[18:15] <ailo> It's just a parameter
[18:15] <scott-work> ailo: i had originally considered a ubuntu studio specific file that was installed only during ubuntu studio ISO install as to not overwrite someone's already existing jack settings
[18:15] <ailo> Not meant to be static
[18:15] <scott-work> ailo: because there are people who aren't linux specialists  or geeks and want it to "just work"
[18:16] <scott-work> it would certainly be a better selling point if an install worked right out of the box (albeit not as good as it could be) rather than if it was completely unusable
[18:17] <ailo> scott-work: I don't think you achieve that by changing jack settings. It would be better for software to automatically interact with jack (meaning you don't need to start it manually), and also that the software is able to set jack settings live
[18:21] <ailo> Beam yourself up, Scotty :P
[18:22] <ailo> scott-work: What is missing for non-geeks is better interfaces. Fewer controls that are pedagogically named.
[18:23] <ailo> Allthough, overwriting a file is not a big deal
[18:23] <ailo> There should be a super-simple jack-control
[18:24] <ailo> Most people only need to start it and set latency
[18:25] <ailo> I suppose falktx would be able to make one, since he's already been doing that type of thing
[18:26] <ailo> scott-work: You seem to be on a mission to find a garage-band scenario for Ubuntu Studio
[18:26] <ailo> Unfortunately there are no apps like that
[18:26] <ailo> And the apps that are available are not meant to be garage-band
[18:27] <scott-work> ailo: no, that is not the desire.  it is completely untenable given the number of hardware available and could be used
[18:27] <ailo> To use them, you simply must learn how to use them
[18:27] <scott-work> ailo: however, that does not preclude trying to make ubuntu studio more accessible to the less technically minded, as quite a few musicians are
[18:27] <falktx> ailo: if all goes well, I may be able to get Cadence beta1 ready for 12.04
[18:30] <ailo> I see three cases for non technical users. 1. they only use jack with one piece of software. They only need to start jack and set latency. 2. They use more than one app, and also need to connect them. 3. They want to use multiple apps and save the session as well
[18:30] <ailo> In which case, you need 1. start/stop controls 2. simple latency parameter 3. connect window 4. session save/load
[18:31] <falktx> I have it all I guess
[18:31] <ailo> falktx: But you have more too, right?
[18:31] <falktx> yes
[18:31] <falktx> ailo: problem is jack1 with no-dbus support
[18:32] <ailo> I would design the interface, so that those controls I mentioned would be directly in front, while other settings would be hidden
[18:33] <ailo> And setting latency would be like a slider
[18:33] <ailo> Numbers and explanation - high latency, medium latency, low latency
[18:34] <ailo> I haven't looked at Cadence for a while
[18:34] <ailo> falktx: Why not push it into Debian?
[18:35] <ailo> I forgot one essential thing: Choosing sound card
[18:35] <ailo> Choosing sound card with qjackctl is great, but there are more options than most people would need
[21:41] <scott-work> progress is even better today :)  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
[21:43] <knome> shiny
[21:44] <knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html is not too bad either :)
[21:58] <micahg> are the -extra packages out of sync breaking anything ATM aside from today's image?  I just want to know if I need to upload now or can wait a few hours
[23:21] <ScottL> astraljava, ping
[23:27] <astraljava> ScottL: pong