[01:10] <MrChrisDruif> jcastro; what did you do? ^_^ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/should-ccsm-be-purged-from-the-ubuntu-repos/
[01:14] <MrChrisDruif> All hell broke loose on omgubuntu ^_^
[02:39] <bkerensa> http://linux.org/ <-- for fun
[03:07] <cjohnston> blah blah blah
[07:10] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:15] <nigelb> czajkowski: Were you running Ubuntu on a Mac?
[07:17] <czajkowski> nope never
[07:22] <nigelb> Sigh
[07:22] <nigelb> I guess I have to get used to mac.
[08:03] <dholbach> good morning
[08:50] <dholbach> hola dpm, do you know if there is a link from developer.u.c to the NewPackages wiki page now?
[08:51] <dpm> hi dholbach, I don't think so, no. We should probably add it.
[08:51] <dholbach> I thought you were goint to add it because you asked for the link :)
[08:52] <dholbach> and there's a work item from one of my blueprints to check if there is ;-)
[08:52] <dpm> dholbach, hahaha, no I was genuinely interested to know what happened with new packages
[08:52] <dpm> but I can add it
[08:52] <dholbach> I guess it'd make sense
[08:52] <dholbach> shall I file a bug for it?
[08:52] <dpm> give me a few mins and then you can tick off that WI
[08:52] <dholbach> ah nice
[08:52] <dholbach> even better
[08:52]  * dholbach hugs dpm
[08:53]  * dpm hugs dholbach :)
[08:56] <bkerensa> dholbach: Next weeks interview is complete :D
[09:12] <AlanBell> jcastro: https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/ubuntu/precise/compizconfig-settings-manager/safetyfirst/+merge/90389
[09:12]  * AlanBell has no idea if that was the right way to propose a change to something
[09:12] <dholbach> bkerensa, nice! who did you get?
[09:12] <bkerensa> Simon
[09:12] <bkerensa> from Germany
[09:12] <dholbach> awesome! :)
[09:12] <dholbach> get a picture! :)
[09:12] <bkerensa> I have added to interview to Google Docs with his photo
[09:13] <bkerensa> I did
[09:13] <bkerensa> :)
[09:13] <bkerensa> it is in my canned interview template to request one now :)
[09:13] <dholbach> sweeet
[09:13] <dholbach> AlanBell, it looks good
[09:13] <dholbach> bkerensa, I added some more interview suggestions to the list
[09:13] <bkerensa> ok cool
[09:14] <dholbach> bkerensa, haha, nice picture
[09:14] <dholbach> he looks like he knows what's going on :)
[09:14] <bkerensa> heh :P
[09:15] <bkerensa> Well I will start moving this weekend so I hope to be moved and internet migrated by next issue day
[09:15] <bkerensa> :)
[09:15] <bkerensa> Tomorrow I have to go buy some new furniture even
[09:15] <dholbach> bkerensa, I wish you all the best with that!
[09:15] <dholbach> and thanks for your tireless work
[09:16] <dholbach> I'll blog about what's going on in the new-devs world soon and hope we can attract some new folks for the dev updates
[09:17] <bkerensa> dholbach: I actually talked to cody and he is on board... He hopes to do a hangout with us
[09:17] <dholbach> nice
[10:41] <dpm> dholbach, http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/ - let me know what you think. I've also added a point about PPAs
[10:43] <dholbach> dpm, sweet :)
[10:45] <dpm> :)
[10:45] <dholbach> thanks a bunch
[10:45] <dpm> no worries :)
[10:47] <dpm> dholbach, I wrote a blog post on d.u.c yesterday, but it didn't appear on the planet (it did have the right tag to be syndicated). The only thing that I can think of is that I had to change the title and the URL of the post after noticing a typo, but that was like 2 mins after publishing. Could it be that the planet aggregator got confused? Do you have any other ideas?
[10:50] <dholbach> I guess other posts worked alright, didn't they?
[10:50] <dpm> yeah
[10:50] <dholbach> it sounds weird to me that it should be about the title and url
[10:50] <dpm> I'm checking if I misspelled the tag or something as well
[10:50] <dholbach> sorry, I have no idea
[10:50] <dholbach> maybe IS can check the logs?
[10:52] <dpm> not sure. But perhaps easier: do you know how to make the planet pick old posts? I could perhaps try to update it, in the hope that the planet picks it up
[10:52] <dholbach> no, no idea :-/
[10:52] <dpm> no worries, I'll experiment :)
[11:15] <daker> dholbach, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9042512/Brad-Pitt-I-suffered-depression.html
[11:23] <dholbach> daker, on the flight back from Casablanca, they showed lots of videos from the Marrakech Film Festival - I think Pitt was also shown a couple of times
[11:24] <daker> dholbach, btw where are the photos ?
[11:26] <dholbach> ha, good thing you remind me of  it
[11:26] <dholbach> I'll upload some more this WE :)
[11:55] <dpm> dholbach, kelemengabor tells me he's already signed up for a UDW slot \o/
[12:08] <dholbach> dpm, yep :)
[12:10] <dholbach> dpm, did IS every reply to the packaging guide ticket?
[12:11] <dpm> dholbach, actually, now that I think of it, they did! They fixed the firewall issue, I think, let me check...
[12:11] <dholbach> ah yes
[12:11] <dholbach> NICE
[12:11] <cjohnston> mornin
[12:12] <dholbach> hey cjohnston
[12:12] <cjohnston> anyone had a look at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/2011-10-31/ yet?
[12:17] <dholbach> dpm, ~fougner just had a look at updating the look of the packaging guide
[12:17] <dholbach> it might need a few small tweaks but it should be much better than it was :)
[12:20] <dpm> ah, cool
[12:24] <dpm> dholbach, I've just manually run the script and seemed to give me no errors, but I'm not sure if the html was updated, does the version look ok to you? -> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/singlehtml/
[12:31] <dholbach> dpm, the new look was not merged yet, but I'm working on it
[12:32] <dpm> dholbach, cool
[14:55] <akgraner> mhall119, are "lens" and "scope" the same thing? If not, what's the difference?
[14:56] <mhall119> akgraner: lens defines the content and categories
[14:56] <mhall119> they are per-content-type, generally
[14:56] <mhall119> scopes do the work of finding results and plugging them into a lens, they are per-source generally
[14:56] <mhall119> akgraner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses/Guidelines has a better description
[14:59] <akgraner> ahhh
[14:59] <akgraner> thanks for the link
[15:14] <mhall119> np
[15:19] <jcastro> akgraner: hey, I could have sworn we had a "submit button" on the fridge
[15:20] <jcastro> am I crazy or can I just not find it?
[15:20] <akgraner> we used too - hmmm
[15:21] <akgraner> oh I know we took it down when SSO wasn't working
[15:22] <akgraner> we have a webform as well that I can put back on there as well
[15:22] <akgraner> jcastro, would that be helpful?^^^
[15:23] <jcastro> I just need to know where to submit news
[15:24] <jcastro> even text there that was like "Mail us news" that sent to the right place would work I think
[15:24] <jcastro> anyway, where do I send my news. :)
[15:25] <dpm> akgraner, I was looking for the translator interviews we posted a while ago in the fridge, but they seem to have gone. Do you know what could have happened? Was there a migration of data gone wrong some time, or something like that?
[15:25] <akgraner> ok we are re-doing our wikis
[15:25] <akgraner> dpm, let me look - I'll get back to you on that one
[15:25] <akgraner> jcastro, I'll add that to the site :-)
[15:26] <dpm> akgraner, in case it helps, here's one (broken link) http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2067 and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1524951
[15:26] <akgraner> thanks
[15:26] <dpm> I can't find it in the fridge nor in the interwebs
[15:27] <akgraner> I'll look once I get off my call :-)
[15:27] <jcastro> mhall119: balloons: I don't travel until end of Feb if we want to plan a get together.
[15:27] <cjohnston> a whole month of no traveling?
[15:27] <cjohnston> ;-)
[15:30] <mhall119> yeah, he's slacking
[15:30] <cjohnston> lol
[15:32] <akgraner> dpm - I found this - http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2010/07/06/ubuntu-translations-interviews-aron-xu-simplified-chinese-team/
[15:32] <akgraner> but it looks like some stuff didn't migrate well
[15:33] <dpm> akgraner, yeah, the picture is missing, and it seems it's authored by boredanblogging, so does that mean it was migrated manually?
[15:34] <mhall119> now there's a nick I haven't seen in a long time
[15:34] <akgraner> yep he pulled in the information when we went to wordpress
[15:35] <akgraner> I'll have to dig into everything with pleia2 and IS and find you a better answer - but I figure it out and get you a better answer
[15:35] <akgraner> s/I/I'll
[15:36] <akgraner> dpm, do want a list?
[15:37] <akgraner> I can get you all the links for those interviews if that will help you
[15:37] <dpm> akgraner, that'd be really helpful, yeah
[15:37] <akgraner> ok - can I get it to you Monday?
[15:37] <dpm> akgraner, sure. However, if it's something you can show me how to do myself, I'm equally happy to do it
[15:38] <akgraner> I'm just searching the Fridge using the spreadsheet
[15:45] <dpm> akgraner, which spreadsheet, the interviews one?
[15:45] <akgraner> dpm yep
[15:45] <akgraner> do you need the link?
[15:46] <dpm> akgraner, if you've got it handy, that'd be really helpful, otherwise I can try to find it
[15:46] <akgraner> yep one sec
[15:46] <dpm> akgraner, also do you know where the pictures that were originally in the posts could have gone?
[15:53] <dpm> got the link to the spreadsheet, thanks!
[15:53] <akgraner> dpm, nope  - but I can find out.  I may still have copies of them locally so if I do I'll send you what I have - the problem I think happened when everything had to go back to the Canonical servers that's when we lost some stuff :-(
[15:54] <akgraner> but I don't know all those details, but I'll dig into it
[15:54] <dpm> akgraner, speaking of local copies, I think I should have the pictures on e-mail somewhere. Don't worry about it, I'll find them.
[15:55] <akgraner> ok
[16:20] <jcastro> I have dibs on bacon when he joins
[16:25] <mhall119> jcastro: watch your cholesterol
[16:25] <jcastro> jono: dibs!
[16:26] <jcastro> I can go whenever. :)
[16:26] <jono> hey all
[16:26] <jono> jcastro, eh?
[16:26] <dholbach> hey jono :)
[16:26] <jono> hey dholbach
[16:26] <jcastro> just claiming you for a call today. :)
[16:26] <jono> jcastro, ahhh
[16:26] <jono> cool
[16:26] <jono> yep, lets sync up this afternoon
[16:26]  * jcastro nods
[16:27] <dholbach> jono, you didn't see the other part of the 'dibs' conversation:
 I have dibs on bacon when he joins
 jcastro: watch your cholesterol
[16:27] <dholbach> :-P
[16:29] <jono> dholbach, what was it?
[16:29] <dholbach> ^
[16:29] <dholbach> jono, what I just pasted above :)
[16:29] <jono> haha
[16:32] <jono> dpm, brb, need to reboot then will call
[16:35] <jono> dpm, hangout sent
[16:50] <jcastro> daker: your change is now live on the site, thanks dude!
[16:58] <cjohnston>  /11
[17:00] <mhall119> all the way to 11?
[17:15] <cjohnston> hush
[17:25] <pleia2> jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Submit
[17:25] <jcastro> Ta!
[17:25] <pleia2> we're rewriting all the wikis to make this stuff easier to find ;)
[17:25] <pleia2> (and deleting lots of pages, do we get a gold star? :))
[17:29] <mhall119> jono: are we still on for a call?
[17:29] <jcastro> pleia2: you always get a gold star.
[17:30] <jcastro> new rule though, "keep jorge away from m&m's at ubuntu booths"
[17:30] <pleia2> haha
[17:31] <jcastro> "We have m&m's at the booth!" should be "We have a flu delivery mechanism at the booth!"
[17:31] <jono> mhall119, yeah
[17:31] <jono> just wrapped my call
[17:31] <jono> one sec
[17:31] <balloons> little flu candies!
[17:32] <jono> mhall119, invite sent
[17:33] <jcastro> balloons: I sent stefano your way
[17:33] <jcastro> does the tool work yet? :)
[17:34] <balloons> talking to the guys right now :)
[17:34] <jcastro> <3
[17:34] <balloons> but yes we can test the charm, though the tool is still undergoing work
[17:34] <balloons> it will deploy and will come up
[17:35] <mhall119> jono: I don't see it
[17:35] <mhall119> jono: did you send it to my canonical or ubuntu email?
[17:35] <jono> sent again
[17:35] <mhall119> or gmail
[17:35] <jono> whatever I am connected to in G+ with
[17:36] <mhall119> jono: chromium is spinng, but not loading it...
[17:36] <jono> mhall119, restart maybe?
[17:36] <mhall119> maybe
[17:38] <dholbach> alright my friends - I call it a day - have a great weekend everyone!
[17:39] <balloons> gout noc dholbach
[17:40] <dholbach> balloons, which language was that? :)
[17:40] <balloons> lol..
[17:41] <balloons> I mispelled gute.. :-(
[17:41] <dholbach> and Nacht? :)
[17:41]  * dholbach hugs balloons
[17:41] <balloons> and I didn't remeber night.. I only now morgen :-)
[17:41] <balloons> so I used 'noc' inet slang for night
[17:41] <balloons> not bad eh?
[17:41] <balloons> you got it :-)
[17:41] <dholbach> haha, ok :)
[17:42] <dholbach> it's "gute Nacht" - ask dpm: German is a nightmare to learn
[17:42] <dholbach> or ask jono :)
[17:42] <akgraner> so glad other people butcher languages more than me - it's sooooooooo refreshing
[17:42] <dholbach> see you on Monday :)
[17:42] <dpm> bona nit dholbach!
[17:42] <dpm> albeit a bit too late
[17:43] <akgraner> dpm are you finding what you need?
[17:43] <dpm> akgraner, I haven't had the chance to yet, but I will succeed! :-)
[17:44] <daker> jcastro, you are welcome ツ
[17:51] <balloons> akgraner, yea, your in good company.. my i should stick to english with only occasional attempts at french (since no one has to hear the terrible attempt at an accent)
[17:52] <akgraner> balloons, :-)
[18:11] <jono> balloons, hangout invite sent
[18:11] <dpm-afk> have a nice weekend everyone!
[18:12] <cjohnston> bye dpm-afk
[18:15] <greg-g> let me just vent for a second:
[18:15] <greg-g> 1) why are non-Ubuntu members posting to planet.ubuntu? (eg: members of the Canonical design team, through design.canonical.com)
[18:16] <pleia2> under the same policy as we allow corporate blogs
[18:16] <greg-g> 2)...
[18:16] <greg-g> hmm
[18:16] <MrChrisDruif> 2?
[18:16] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu#Corporate_Blogs
[18:16] <greg-g> 2) was going to expand on getting multiple/duplicate hits due to the Fridge, but, whatever :)
[18:17] <pleia2> we could create a fridge feed that's planet-specific where if it was already syndicated to planet we don't put it there again
[18:17] <greg-g> pleia2: that list is out of date of approved corp blogs given the number that canonical has syndicated, I believe
[18:17] <pleia2> yes, it's out of date
[18:18] <pleia2> we should probably just remove the list entirely, it's difficult to maintain
[18:18] <pleia2> if anyone has questions about the non-member blogs the CC has approved they can just email the CC
[18:18]  * greg-g nods
[18:19] <pleia2> (Dell was approved for a while until they broke their feed and sent us junk, we made them take it off)
[18:19] <jono> balloons, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity
[18:21] <jono> balloons, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/CommunityLeaders
[18:22] <pleia2> greg-g: we've actually been encouraging canonical blogs on the planet so they can feel more like part of the community and get their ideas out there with the rest of ours, the division between canonical and community is largely seen as not good, we want us all to be working together
[18:22] <pleia2> (design blog is a particularly good example of this)
[18:23]  * greg-g nods
[18:26] <balloons> meh, http://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=go&answer=1289346
[18:27] <jono> balloons, hangout invite sent
[19:09]  * AlanBell is on unity2d
[19:09] <AlanBell> having broken system with ccsm ;)
[19:11] <pleia2> next person to mention ccsm has to put a quarter in the swear jar
[19:12] <AlanBell> eo54
[19:14] <jono> jcastro, I want to get UDS sponsorship out today
[19:15] <jono> is everything in place in LP, with the reg form etc for me to announce?
[19:15] <jono> I just need to pick a closing date, right?
[19:18] <jcastro> jono: yep, but last I checked was 2 weeks ago
[19:18] <jcastro> mhall119: have you made any changes since then?
[19:18] <jono> jcastro, could you look into this please
[19:18] <jono> I want to announce today
[19:18] <jcastro> sure, gimme 5 to sort it
[19:19] <jono> deadline is Fri 24th FEb
[19:19] <jono> actually wed 22nd
[19:19] <cjohnston> jono: afaik, its all ready to go
[19:20] <jono> cjohnston, cool
[19:20] <jcastro> mhall119: ping
[19:20] <jono> jcastro, can you mail me the respective links to let me know things are good to go,and I will blog it when I get back from lunch
[19:20] <jcastro> nod
[19:20] <cjohnston> jono: we do have a ton of changes, but none really on the sponsorship side
[19:20] <jono> cool
[19:20] <jono> thanks jcastro
[19:21] <jcastro> cjohnston: do you have summit admin privs?
[19:21] <cjohnston> jono: i have already submitted a request as well, if you wanted to look and verify that it all looks good
[19:21] <cjohnston> jcastro: depends on what for
[19:21] <jcastro> switch it from published to "open" or whatever we call it
[19:24] <jcastro> cjohnston: it's in the django admin for uds-q
[19:28] <cjohnston> ya..
[19:28] <cjohnston> otp
[19:28]  * jcastro nods
[19:47] <cjohnston> jcastro: jono sponsorship should be open
[19:47] <cjohnston> i see the link
[19:47] <jcastro> can you delete my record so I can test it one more time?
[19:48] <cjohnston> I dont have that type of access
[19:49] <jcastro> nod
[19:49] <cjohnston> do you?
[19:49] <jcastro> nope
[19:49] <bkerensa> heh
[19:49]  * jcastro is having his wife apply for UDS as a test. :)
[19:50] <cjohnston> nice
[19:50] <cjohnston> if she gets approved I cry foul
[19:50] <cjohnston> :-P
[19:50] <bkerensa> jcastro
[19:50] <bkerensa> its open
[19:51] <jcastro> bkerensa: did you submit?
[19:51] <bkerensa> oh no
[19:51] <bkerensa> but I can
[19:51] <bkerensa> ;)
[19:51] <jcastro> can you test it?
[19:51] <bkerensa> sure
[19:51] <jcastro> you don't have to really fill it out
[19:51] <jcastro> just say "this is a test" so we can remove it later when you apply for real
[19:51] <bkerensa> can you delete it later so I can actually apply though?
[19:51] <bkerensa> :D
[19:51] <cjohnston> bkerensa: "I should go to UDS because cjohnston rocks"
[19:51] <jcastro> "jorge told me if I helped test I could hang out with Chris, is this a lie?"
[19:51] <cjohnston> jcastro: do you still have the access to view requests?
[19:52] <jcastro> nope
[19:52] <cjohnston> ok
[19:52] <MrChrisDruif> jcastro; no problem ^_^
[19:52] <jcastro> I texted michael to see if he's around
[19:52] <cjohnston> ok
[19:52] <bkerensa> Thanks very much for requesting sponsorship to uds-q. If you have any queries about your request, please e-mail jorge@ubuntu.com.
[19:52] <bkerensa> We'll let you know whether or not your request has been accepted soon via email.
[19:52] <MrChrisDruif> I don't know if I'll be there thou ^_^
[19:52] <bkerensa> ;p
[19:52] <jcastro> oh whoa whoa
[19:52] <jcastro> that email is wrong
[19:52] <jcastro> cjohnston: can you make that be mhall?
[19:53] <cjohnston> jcastro: I asked mhall119, he said that we wants to try to get a uds@ubuntu.com type email address or something like that
[19:54] <jcastro> akgraner: pleia2: thanks for the fridge mention, does that mean it'll get mentioned in UWN too? Or is that another step?
[19:54] <jcastro> cjohnston: k, we'll see what he says
[19:55] <bkerensa> jcastro: Be seeing you in July?
[19:55] <bkerensa> :)
[19:55] <jcastro> july where?
[19:55] <cjohnston> He's stayin at your house for a week
[19:55] <bkerensa> jcastro: OSCON
[19:55] <bkerensa> :)
[19:56] <jcastro> woo!
[19:56] <bkerensa> we should have a booth (we do every year)
[19:59] <pleia2> jcastro: yeah, it'll be in UWN
[19:59] <jcastro> o/
[20:01] <jcastro> pleia2: http://www.theshirtlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/You-Know-How-I-Roll1.jpg
[20:01] <akgraner> jcastro, you are a media - um junkie :-)
[20:01] <pleia2> hehe
[20:01] <akgraner> I like the shirt
[20:01] <jcastro> there used to be a shirt somewhere with talking sushi that said "that's how I roll"
[20:01] <jcastro> but I failed finding it just now
[20:04] <akgraner> pleia2, we are re-doing the network here this weekend so it may look like I am not online - but I've got local copies of the UWM links and wiki stuff that I can fix offline then as soon as we're back up I'll drop it in.
[20:05] <akgraner> sigh wrong channel, right person.  :-/
[20:08] <akgraner> by "we" I mean I'll be watching Pete and asking is it fixed yet every 5 minutes until I am back on the internet
[20:17] <jono> akgraner, around?
[20:18] <akgraner> jono, I am
[20:18] <akgraner> what's up?
[20:18] <jono> akgraner, can you post http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/27/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-3/ to the fridge for me?
[20:18] <jono> thanks!
[20:18] <akgraner> yep will do that now
[20:19] <jono> thanks akgraner
[20:32] <bkerensa> jcastro: Can you nuke my test sponsorship app :)
[20:33] <jcastro> I don't have access for that, but mhall does
[20:33] <jcastro> Let me send him a mail so he knows
[20:33] <bkerensa> k
[20:33] <akgraner> jono - http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/01/27/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-3/
[20:33] <jcastro> what's your email so I can cc you?
[20:33] <jono> thanks akgraner
[20:34] <bkerensa> jcastro: bkerensa@ubuntu.com
[20:34] <akgraner> jono yw  - also sorry to add creating wiki pages to your todo list
[20:34] <jcastro> jono: I'm ready whenevs btw.
[20:34] <jono> akgraner, no biggie :-)
[20:34] <jono> jcastro, give me a few mins to wrap something up
[20:34] <jcastro> no worries
[20:35] <jcastro> I will just fire up METAL
[20:35] <jono> finishing up the UDS thing and  a status update blog
[20:35] <jono> awesome :-)
[20:36] <jcastro> hmm, gangsta rap came on instead
[20:36]  * jcastro rocks out
[20:38]  * jono listening to heavy Alice Cooper
[20:40]  * balloons is mellowed out listening to potheads sing about utopia
[20:54] <jcastro> heavy alice cooper, you mean Kiss?
[20:54] <jcastro> :)
[20:55]  * snap-l listens to Scar Symmetry
[20:55]  * jussi notes the EU has a cool page for encuoraging women in IT: http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/itgirls/index_en.htm
[20:55]  * snap-l also considers whether or not to try for sponsorship again this year
[20:55] <snap-l> s/year/cycle/
[20:56] <jcastro> why not?
[20:57] <snap-l> Because I have a better shot of winning the lottery and flying to cali that way. :)
[20:58] <jono> jcastro, damn, I forgot I have a call lined up with Charles in a few mins
[20:58] <jono> I will take that and then we can chat - that work?
[20:58] <jcastro> sure
[20:59] <jcastro> I have no place to be tonight
[20:59] <jcastro> except donating my time at that soup kitchen that I now have to cancel.
[20:59] <jcastro> j/k
[20:59] <cjohnston> That soup kitchen was my house feeding my kids
[21:00] <jono> LOL
[21:00] <popey> jcastro: dude! You could spend some more time online telling everyone how great myunity is! :D
[21:01] <snap-l> HEy, HUD and MyUnity should keep everyone happy
[21:01] <jcastro> popey: if someone makes something better than that's fine
[21:01] <snap-l> that is, if their version of happiness is bitching online
[21:01] <jcastro> I know myunity isn't awesome, but ccsm is /that bad/.
[21:01] <jcastro> it's in basic too
[21:01] <jcastro> someone can write up the features they need right now and be done
[21:02] <popey> yeah, I'm just trollin' ya dude
[21:02] <jcastro> AlanBell came through though with actually trying to fix it
[21:02] <jcastro> he would be commit #39 out of ..... 38 in three years.
[21:02] <snap-l> jcastro: I have the utmost respect for you. Seems every single time you post on a miling list, you get a deluge
[21:03] <jcastro> snap-l: you should have seen the responses I got via email (that get posted before they get moderated)
[21:03] <AlanBell> jcastro: it is fixable
[21:03] <snap-l> "Hi, I'm Jorge, and I want to give everyone free money" "JORGE, YOU"RE A DICK FOR SUBSCRIBING TO A CAPITALIST IDEA OF CURRENCY REDISTRIBUTION!"
[21:03] <AlanBell> and no, I have not committed anything, I have a merge proposal that I don't think anyone will review
[21:03] <jcastro> if the end solution is fixing that tool then I'm all thumbs up for that.
[21:04] <snap-l> AlanBell: But at least you tried
[21:04] <jcastro> AlanBell: mhall119 can hook you up to make sure someone on DX reviews it
[21:04] <snap-l> as opposed to the myriad of other folks getting indignant
[21:04] <AlanBell> as far as I can tell unity only crashes when a plugin is loaded or unloaded, which ccsm does too dynamically
[21:04] <jcastro> we need to sort that patch pilot system anyway
[21:05] <AlanBell> it is trivial to stop people changing the loading state of unity (it is just as bad to turn it on in a kde session as it is to turn it off in an ubuntu session)
[21:05] <AlanBell> and we can patch the xml file of any plugin to not expose dangerous options
[21:05] <AlanBell> and I have patched out the dangerous and redundant scrollbars
[21:05] <jcastro> well, we could have done a "call for help" to fix ccsm, but we've been doing that for years and if you look at the history it's basically abandoned
[21:06] <jcastro> which is why I recommended removing it and asking people to improve the newer tools
[21:06] <AlanBell> I didn't know it was broken
[21:06] <AlanBell> it is the one accessibility tool we have that is actually better than any other operating system
[21:06] <jcastro> you're certainly correct to point out the horribleness of having that a11y feature in there instead of where it should be, we have no excuse for that one.
[21:07] <AlanBell> enhanced zoom, show mouse, the colour filters, the ADD filter
[21:08] <AlanBell> getting rid of ccsm is like getting rid of the dash because some lenses are buggy
[21:10] <snap-l> AlanBell: Well, that's what happened to systray.
[21:11] <snap-l> except systray was buggy to boot
[21:11] <AlanBell> well there was a replacement for systray
[21:11] <snap-l> And that's what MyUnity is looking to become
[21:11] <AlanBell> srsly
[21:12]  * snap-l can't believe he's taking jcastro's side. ;)
[21:12] <jcastro> snap-l: it comes down to simple math
[21:12] <jcastro> You want the cube
[21:12] <snap-l> 1/0 = CUBE
[21:12] <AlanBell> I don't want to be nasty about myunity because people have put effort into that
[21:12] <jcastro> then I tell you, you can have the cube, but one in every 6 times you select it we break your desktop
[21:13] <AlanBell> jcastro: my proposal was to drop the cube plugin.
[21:13] <jcastro> armed with this information you would say "hmmm, let me make a risk assessment."
[21:13] <jcastro> right
[21:13] <jcastro> we did this 2 cycles ago
[21:13] <jcastro> "we are going to drop the cube if no one maintains it."
[21:13] <jcastro> then we got flamed in the same manner
[21:13] <AlanBell> personally I like the cube plugin, it makes more sense than the wall to me
[21:13] <jcastro> then people whined and whined, and we let the cube we enabled
[21:13] <jcastro> and the people who were being the loudest BAILED.
[21:14] <snap-l> But but but but how the hell am I going to make awesome Youtube videos of me playing games in Wine while moving the around in a cube?
[21:14] <jussi> meh, I have none of these issues :D
[21:14] <jcastro> now no longer do we have an unmaintained plugin, but we don't protect people from turning it on.
[21:14]  * jussi hugs kde :D
[21:14] <popey> cube is the first thing my ex-boss enables in ccsm
[21:14] <jcastro> I love the cube too, I still love the cube
[21:14] <popey> he loves it
[21:14] <AlanBell> we do still have the cube though, it just breaks unity
[21:14] <Pendulum> jcastro: what's your proposal for how to not lose the accessibility aspect, especially in a LTS?
[21:14] <jcastro> but to me if the decision is "cube and users have to make a saving throw" or "no cube", I'll pick no cube every time
[21:15] <jcastro> Pendulum: I wasn't aware of the a11y issue until Alan brought it up
[21:15] <snap-l> What's the target number?
[21:15] <Pendulum> they were on the list
[21:15] <AlanBell> I suggest removing the cube plugin from the disk, let it burn, shoot an arrow in it's knee
[21:15] <jcastro> Pendulum: well I know what they are now
[21:15] <Pendulum> (as in, he brought them up on the list, as well as here)
[21:15] <jcastro> but I didn't at the time when I posted
[21:15] <Pendulum> fair enough
[21:16] <jcastro> clearly that is a big problem, I just didn't think that we had useful a11y tools in there
[21:17] <AlanBell> ccsm is a nice python app, with a gui that makes sense and builds based on XML files it reads, it is totally maintainable and separate from the scary 3d stuff in C
[21:17] <jono> jcastro, looks like Charles bailed on me
[21:17] <jono> lets go
[21:18] <jcastro> ROCK.
[21:18] <Pendulum> jcastro: I'm pretty neutral on CCSM in general, but I feel like at least tha a11y side of things needs to be worked out before it's dropped. And I have no idea how much work that will take (I've poked Luke, but it's his weekend already)
[21:19] <jcastro> that huge block of cheese that was consuming his arm probably finished him off.
[21:20] <jono> haha
[21:20] <jono> jcastro, G+ work?
[21:20] <cjohnston> is ccsm good with a11y Pendulum ?
[21:20] <jcastro> jono: yep
[21:21] <AlanBell> cjohnston: you mean navigable with orca as a gui?
[21:21] <Pendulum> cjohnston: it's the only access to screen magnification, among other things, that we have (eZoom plug-in)
[21:23] <cjohnston> gotcha
[21:30] <Pendulum> jcastro: I just want to apologize for being overly harsh earlier. I hadn't read enough scrollbrack and made some wrong assumptions, and that's my fault for jumping before knowing the conversation background.
[21:34] <jcastro> no worries. :)