=== doko_ is now known as doko === yofel_ is now known as yofel === greyback is now known as greyback|lunch === JackyAlcine_ is now known as JackyAlcine === greyback|lunch is now known as greyback === bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_ === bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk === dbarth_ is now known as dbarth [15:59] * slangasek waves [16:00] \o [16:00] * stgraber waves [16:00] o/ [16:00] moop [16:00] good afternoon [16:00] Hello [16:01] who's the meeting chair today? [16:01] sorry, I'm a little bit behind on getting the wiki page loaded up today [16:01] ogasawara: I am [16:02] but I haven't done this in a while, so please bear with me :) [16:03] hi [16:05] hi steve [16:05] #startmeeting [16:05] Meeting started Fri Jan 27 16:05:56 2012 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [16:05] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [16:06] [TOPIC] Release general overview - slangasek === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - slangasek [16:06] Agenda can be found: [16:06] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-01-27 [16:06] Individual team status links were/will be added to it from: [16:06] #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/thread.html [16:07] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule release schedule [16:07] * slangasek wonders if the bot is paying attention [16:07] #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/ release schedule [16:08] #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html bugs the engineering teams have committed to fix [16:08] if you have other bugs you'd like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, they should be assigned to specific teams so they can be found. [16:08] Upcoming dates: [16:08] • 2012/02/02 - Alpha 2 [16:08] • 2012/02/16 - Feature Freeze [16:08] • 2012/02/16 - 10.04.4 [16:09] rls-p-tracking-bugs is, as usual for reports.qa pages, hopelessly wrong [16:09] there are more than four bugs tagged rls-p-tracking [16:10] oh gar [16:10] who's incharge of alpha 2? [16:10] Riddell: o/ [16:10] good luck :) [16:10] hmm, thanks ;) [16:11] [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on rls-p-tracking report breakage [16:11] ACTION: slangasek to follow up on rls-p-tracking report breakage [16:11] slangasek: just fyi, I've pinged bjf about it [16:13] ***WORKITEMS:*** we are still above the overall trendline unfortunately; we really need to get workitems postponed that aren't going to happen so that other teams know what to expect. So please work with your teams to mark as postponed work that isn't going to happen [16:13] [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ work item tracker [16:14] [TOPIC] Alpha-2 === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Alpha-2 [16:14] Alpha 2 is due next Thursday. I'm planning for the soft freeze to go into effect Tuesday morning UTC for milestone preparation, so please plan your uploads accordingly [16:15] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=44326&field.tag=rls-mgr-p-tracking bugs engineering teams have committed to fixing for alpha-2 [16:15] er no, sorry [16:16] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=44326&field.tag=rls-mgr-p-tracking bugs that have been flagged by release management for fixing in alpha-2 [16:16] #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=44326&field.tag=rls-p-tracking bugs engineering teams have committed to fixing that are milestoned to alpha-2 [16:17] does the latter set bear discussing in this meeting? [16:17] if you're not expecting a fix uploaded by EOD Monday, they probably need the milestone moved [16:18] bug #830949, bug #344878, bug #800826, bug #850264, bug #872446, bug #905754, bug #790240 [16:18] Launchpad bug 830949 in compiz (Ubuntu) "[Intel N10 Graphics] Need Compiz' "Copy to Texture" plugin so can display on multi-head layouts bigger than the max GL texture size" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830949 [16:18] Launchpad bug 344878 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "file name too long when creating new file (ecryptfs_lookup: lookup_one_len() returned [-36] on lower_dentry)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344878 [16:18] Launchpad bug 800826 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "aa-notify doesn't display certain apparmor events" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800826 [16:18] Launchpad bug 850264 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "given a foreign architecture of i386 on amd64 machine, and an outdated libc, apt tries to remove libc-bin" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850264 [16:18] (seven bugs, one with two tasks) [16:18] Launchpad bug 872446 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "aa-logprof should detect denials as well as complaints" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872446 [16:19] Any comments on those bugs? [16:19] I'll move the milestones on the security team ones, they won't be ready for alpha 2 [16:19] mdeslaur: ack, thanks [16:20] mdeslaur, slangasek: 344878 has a fix in the current precise kernel [16:20] and I'll send out a milestone freeze pre-announcement mail today to ubuntu-devel to make sure everyone's on the same page [16:20] I still have to do some touchups on it, but what's currently there is "good enough" [16:20] tyhicks: sounds like the bug tasks should either be marked as 'fix released' or have the milestone moved to track the further work [16:21] slangasek: ack - marking it fixed release and I'll leave it inprogress on the upstream task [16:21] any other comments/questions on alpha-2? [16:21] tyhicks: I'll mark it as fix released thanks. [16:21] mdeslaur: I'll fix that, too [16:21] [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris or brendand === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris or brendand [16:22] slangasek: I asked mvo about apt, and will move the compiz one (release got delayed) [16:22] [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000753.html [16:22] pitti: the apt one is pretty critical from our side and I'm working with him to get something in fwiw [16:22] usual weekly testing, next week we'll be starting on A2 [16:22] slangasek: yes, I fully agree [16:22] (where by "working with" I mean "testing and repeatedly reporting regressions" :P) [16:22] .. [16:23] mlegris: thanks [16:23] questions for mlegris? [16:23] [TOPIC] QA team update - jibel === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update - jibel [16:24] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000767.html [16:24] as pitti mentioned bug 922478 is fixed but alternate is still failing with bug 922646 [16:24] Launchpad bug 922478 in fonts-tlwg (Ubuntu) "ubuntu alternate 20120127 failed to install: ttf-thai-tlwg : Depends: fonts-thai-tlwg but it is not installable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922478 [16:25] Launchpad bug 922646 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "precise alternate LVM failed to install: no root file system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922646 [16:25] wut [16:25] I rebuilt it to fix that and tested that report.html was empty now [16:25] are you *sure* [16:25] oh sorry, misread, you mean a different bug now [16:25] jibel: well, I fixed the most probable cause of it, I haven't actually re-tested; but I wouldn't see what's wrong now [16:25] ah, likewise, sorry [16:26] this is the only issue, no problem with server, and we'll review desktop images [16:26] .. [16:26] cjwatson, jibel: should 922646 be targeted to alpha-2? or should this be release-noted off for this milestone? [16:26] grumble - I'll have a look [16:26] (IMHO it's not alpha-critical) [16:26] slangasek: we're going to run into it in iso testing anyway so better deal with it for a2 [16:26] imo [16:26] ok [16:27] bug twiddled [16:27] any other questions for jibel? [16:28] [TOPIC] Security team Q&A - mdeslaur === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team Q&A - mdeslaur [16:28] [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000754.html [16:28] nothing further to report [16:28] questions for mdeslaur? [16:28] I've adjusted a couple of bugs [16:28] .. [16:29] [TOPIC] Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team Q&A - ogasawara [16:29] [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000755.html [16:29] As noted in my email, we intend to upload our final Alpha-2 kernel [16:29] today. If there are any fixes needing to land, I/we need to know about [16:29] them now. [16:29] Any questions? [16:29] .. [16:30] does the new kernel fix my laptop's 15% suspend failure rate? ;) [16:30] moving on :) [16:30] [TOPIC] Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team Q&A - cjwatson [16:30] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000768.html - sorry for late posting this week [16:30] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-foundations.html [16:30] We've caught up very slightly this week, but not by much. Trying to make progress on upgrade handling which is a major outstanding chunk of work. [16:30] .. [16:31] possibly of note is the resolvconf package landing in the seeds overnight, which has caused some upgrade and livecd failures [16:31] I will be available for tarring and feathering after the meeting [16:32] slangasek: rls-p-tracking-bugs.html is back [16:32] in the meantime, stgraber is working on getting those regressions fixed today [16:32] ogasawara: thanks [16:32] any other questions for foundations? [16:32] yes, I kicked some of the livecd builds but not all [16:32] yeah! having a lot of fun fixing the world ;) (just discovered that LXC is broken too :)) [16:32] due mostly to patch piloting this morning thoroughly distracting me [16:34] [TOPIC] Server team Q&A - arosales === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team Q&A - arosales [16:34] Hello [16:34] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000774.html [16:34] Still have a bug list we are working through, but oo critical bugs atm, openstack automation testing framwork now live. MaaS also taking shape, and Juju Charm automated testing well underway. [16:34] Any questions? [16:35] s/oo/no/ [16:35] .. [16:35] arosales: any bugs that are a concern for your team for alpha-2 that aren't already on the targeted list? [16:35] not that I am aware of. [16:36] ok, thanks [16:36] [TOPIC] ARM team Q&A- ogra_ === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team Q&A- ogra_ [16:36] sure, np. [16:36] thats me ! [16:36] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000777.html [16:37] i dont really know much about the d-i stuff yet, since that only came up yesterday and NCommander hasnt been around all day ... [16:37] but i know that he (was supposed to) talked to cjwatson yaesterday about it [16:37] .. [16:38] cjwatson, anything to add on the plans ? [16:38] .. [16:38] ogra_: well, AIUI your team is asking for a d-i build for a kernel that we aren't even remotely going to consider providing security support for [16:38] slangasek, right, my thought was to use a PPA, but michael claims that doesnt work [16:38] .. [16:39] I advised NCommander yesterday that the best option under the circumstances is probably to clone the d-i source package, maintaining it as a bzr branch, and push this separate package to universe [16:39] ok [16:39] cjwatson: ^^ not sure if you agree with that [16:39] (we can also take this out-of-band for further discussion) [16:39] sound like a lot extra work vs using a PPA though [16:40] right, and its michaels project, i'm only the (uninformed) reporter here :) [16:40] .. [16:40] any other questions for ARM? [16:40] o/ [16:40] slangasek: that sounds highly unpleasant ... [16:40] ogra_: any eta for m5 kernel tree to use? [16:40] cjwatson: the whole thing is highly unpleasant, AFAICS :) [16:41] fabo, its in the hands of linaro [16:41] mx5 [16:41] I'd rather just hack d-i to build this image out of universe :P [16:41] slangasek, cjwatson thats why i said PPA from the start .... [16:41] it won't make the situation particularly worse except that the images will end up in main/installer-arm*/ [16:41] but they'll do that if you clone d-i too [16:41] ogra_: cdimage pulling from a ppa is no less unpleasant [16:41] ... and there's no code for that [16:41] cdimage ? [16:42] and PPAs don't support d-i custom uploads [16:42] all we need is a netinst image [16:42] that's not what I was told [16:42] you won't get that from a PPA [16:42] anyway, let's offline this [16:42] oh, ok [16:42] ogra_: sounds like we're asking to your team if we should use 3.1 or 3.2 [16:42] right, i'm to uninformed to even remotely discuss it [16:42] .. [16:43] fabo, ah, well, iirc that kernel is in universe, while 3.2 would be preferred we could live with a lower version [16:43] ok [16:43] .. [16:43] the images we roll from it are community supported ones [16:43] .. [16:44] [TOPIC] Linaro team Q&A - fabo === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro team Q&A - fabo [16:44] hi [16:44] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000776.html [16:44] the only question I had, has been asked (mx5) [16:44] any questions? [16:44] .. [16:45] funny how we both always write the same about the unity merge *g* [16:45] .. [16:45] [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team Q&A - joshuahoover === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team Q&A - joshuahoover [16:46] no report on list [16:46] no joshuahoover in channel [16:46] so, moving on [16:46] [TOPIC] Desktop Team Q&A - pitti === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team Q&A - pitti [16:46] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000761.html [16:46] nothign to add to that ATM, any questions? [16:46] .. [16:47] pitti: I know that there's an openoffice.org upgrade ordering issue that's causing some upgrade test failures in jenkins; is that anything you guys are planning to tackle before a-2? [16:47] oh, again? [16:47] slangasek: wasn't, but I can add it to my list; I suppose there's a bug for it already [16:48] "again" - I thought it's been pretty continuous :) [16:48] pitti: o/ [16:48] jibel: do you have that bug number handy? [16:48] slangasek: I looked at it during my december stable+1 shift, but maybe it came back with the new lo [16:48] bug 917153 ? [16:48] Launchpad bug 917153 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "failed to upgrade from oneiric to precise: /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/unopkg.bin: error while loading shared libraries: libicule.so.48: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917153 [16:49] yes, that's the one [16:49] that's something Sweetshark started working on [16:49] pitti, that's it. [16:49] but he's on holidays now [16:49] ok [16:49] so that's a "no" for alpha-2, right? [16:49] TBH I don't have much hope that me or someone else has the time to learn LibO packaging and fix that by a2 [16:49] yes, pretty much [16:50] ok [16:50] anything else for desktop? [16:50] I'll fix the lightdm one on Monday [16:50] dbarth: did you have a question for pitti? [16:50] (autologin conversion) [16:50] yes, on the x.org upload, wether that contains the xfixes tweaks [16:50] if you know [16:51] to unblock the configuration migration tests in jenkins [16:51] otherwise i'll check the changelogs [16:51] dbarth: there were some uploads in RAOF's PPA, and I think they landed yesterday [16:51] ah, sounds good [16:51] so we should be unblocked now then [16:51] if https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxfixes/1:5.0-4ubuntu1 is what you were looking for [16:51] cool [16:51] (that was the help-jason PPA) [16:51] ;) sounds like it [16:52] [TOPIC] Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth [16:52] the status is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ReleaseStatus [16:53] we'll ship 5.0 for alpha-2 [16:53] ie, the version that is currently integrated and hopefully stable in precise [16:53] 5.2 will be out shortly after the freeze is lifted [16:53] the report contains the rest, compiz stays the same for a-2 again [16:53] .. [16:54] dbarth: thanks [16:54] any questions on unity? [16:54] [TOPIC] Unity Services and Settings Team Q&A - olli === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Services and Settings Team Q&A - olli [16:54] status is at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000772.html [16:55] the team is currently looking at fixes listed in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ps-p-indicator-refinements [16:55] any questions [16:56] [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell [16:56] hi [16:56] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000762.html [16:57] python-qt4 was broken on arm but a fix is compiling away [16:57] qtwebkit-source still broken on arm, waiting on infinity to get a fix in to kernel [16:57] .. [16:57] questions for Riddell? [16:57] calligra also compiling away on arm ... [16:57] as mentioned above :) [16:57] .. [16:57] Riddell: what fix into kernel is waited on? [16:58] slangasek: something to let armhf use higher memory I think [16:58] I thought that was done same-day last week [16:58] Riddell: can I suggest you double-check with infinity on the current status? [16:58] No. Didn't work. [16:58] oh [16:58] slangasek: We did after the meeting last week. [16:58] Got a rebuild on an upgraded machine done and it still failed. [16:58] ok [16:59] I believe that kernel fix has been tested in other contexts, though [16:59] so if you're still OOMing on build, I think you need to look outside the kernel for the fix [16:59] because now you're hitting the 3G limit instead of the 2G limit, and that's non-negotiable [17:00] anyway, I'd suggest following up with infinity [17:00] ok needs looking into then [17:00] [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage [17:00] hello [17:00] (apologies again for the late start to the meeting) [17:00] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000758.html [17:01] any questions on Edubuntu? [17:01] Daviey: I started the update of LTSP today as it needs fixing for resolvconf, hopefully it'll be uploaded this weekend (if testing doesn't show any major breakage as I don't want to break alpha2 :)) [17:01] and Edubuntu is in UDW next week === JanC_ is now known as JanC [17:02] [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick or charlie-tca [17:02] worst case scenerio, I'll cherry-pick the fix for resolvconf into our current LTSP and will look at fixing the udeb to avoid the current race condition (release targeted bug for alpha-2) === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick or charlie-tca [17:02] .. [17:02] hi [17:02] stgraber: oops, sorry [17:02] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000763.html [17:03] That is all I know :) [17:03] .. [17:03] any questions on Xubuntu? [17:03] [TOPIC] Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-work === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Studio Team Q&A - scott-work [17:04] see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000759.html [17:04] work items: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html [17:04] thanks again to cjwatson for live-dvd work! [17:04] np [17:04] a large concern right now is the lightdm-greeter problem which prevents x from starting on an install [17:04] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/922424 [17:04] Ubuntu bug 922424 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm won't start I have console(s) only" [Undecided,Confirmed] [17:04] .. [17:05] oh, and pitti asked questions in the email that i hope i satisfactorily asnwered [17:05] .. [17:06] I see feedback on the bug from superm1 suggesting that this needs to be fixed in whatever greeter package ubuntustudio is using [17:07] scott-work: feel free to bring it to #ubuntu-devel if that doesn't do the trick [17:07] [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team Q&A - gilir [17:07] hi [17:07] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-January/000769.html [17:07] .. [17:08] any questions on Lubuntu? [17:08] sorry, I need to run out now [17:08] pitti: ack - thanks [17:08] [TOPIC] MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney [17:08] hiya [17:08] Laney: hey there [17:08] not much to report, ppc backlog is a bit of a concern [17:09] also ftbfs are a bit high so we should do something about that [17:09] and thanks to the patch pilots: sponsor queue is heading in the right direction [17:09] :-) [17:09] .. [17:10] Laney: any particulars on ftbfs that are worth drawing out, or is it general archive malaise? [17:10] (or un-analyzed) [17:11] I haven't analysed it yet, but another drive like we had last cycle would be nice (don't know if a rebuild is planned to get the numbers refreshed) [17:11] doko is planning a rebuild now-ish [17:11] I don't know if it encompasses universe however... actually that might be a toolchain test rebuild [17:11] so nevermind [17:11] please talk to doko about your needS :) [17:11] I just looked at qa.uw.c/ftbfs [17:12] [TOPIC] Any other business, comments, questions? === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business, comments, questions? [17:12] anything else? [17:12] 'cause I know you're all eager to spend more time in a meeting at your EOW :) [17:12] #endmeeting === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [17:12] Meeting ended Fri Jan 27 17:12:40 2012 UTC. [17:12] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-27-16.05.moin.txt [17:12] thanks everyone! [17:12] thanks [17:12] thanks [17:13] slangasek: Thanks for being the chair, have a good weekend. [17:13] thanks slangasek === bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_ [17:14] thanks! [17:26] slangasek, Laney: four rebuilds: main/rebuild, main/4.7, universe/rebuild, universe/4.7 [17:29] doko: so those results will feed into qa.uw.c/ftbfs, yes? [18:06] slangasek, yes === stefano_ is now known as stefano-palazzo [18:12] stefano-palazzo: sorry to disappoint, I haven't sen any other ARB people around [18:17] ajmitch :( [18:18] ajmitch: hey :) [18:19] hi stgraber [18:19] ajmitch: sorry, have been fighting resolvconf related issues since I woke up... [18:19] no problem :) [18:19] got the live cd builds working again? [18:19] oh yeah, that was the easy bit :) [18:20] then, ubiquity failed, netcfg fails in some corner cases, LXC failed, schroot failed, LTSP still fails, ... :) [18:20] so far, just 2 from the ARB & one apology for being a bit late, worth starting a meeting? [18:21] I think I only have the chroots and LTSP left on the list at the moment (but I have a fix for the chroot bit at least) [18:21] hmm, let me try a mass ping of ARB members [18:21] that's a lot of fallout [18:21] at least highvoltage was on IRC a few minutes ago [18:22] yeah, that's a long list, we mostly got caught by build/install issues, I'm not aware of any breakage on existing systems at least [18:22] wendar, highvoltage: ping? [18:22] hi [18:23] hi wendar [18:23] sorry, my caledar shows the meeting as 36 minutes from now, for some reason [18:23] probably a time-zone thing [18:24] most likely, fridge calendar is a bit funny with that [18:25] #startmeeting ARB meeting [18:25] Meeting started Fri Jan 27 18:25:03 2012 UTC. The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [18:25] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ARB meeting Meeting | Current topic: [18:25] sorry if I'm a bit distracted, I'm being poked on a few channels at the moment ;) [18:25] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda [18:25] it's ok, I'm still trying to wake up :) [18:25] #topic Apps which modify system settings (ubuntu-tweak, grub-customizer) -- AndrewMitchell === meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ARB meeting Meeting | Current topic: Apps which modify system settings (ubuntu-tweak, grub-customizer) -- AndrewMitchell [18:26] we had a brief discussion about this one in #ubuntu-arb yesterday, that we have some submissions which fiddle with the system (installing packages, touching files in /etc) [18:28] currently we have a general policy that such things aren't allowed, but there's no definitive place we can point people at for what's acceptable [18:28] that's true [18:28] there's the early documents, but it's not a clear list === Pici is now known as Guest34884 [18:28] it would be better to have one page [18:28] right, I think we should go with a whitelist on that rather than a blacklist [18:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review has some of our other rules, PostReleaseApps/SecurityChecklist has a whole lot more [18:29] stgraber: I like that, it has a more positive tone [18:29] along the lines of is allowed to write to an app specific directory in the user's home directory and can use gconf/gsettings to affect desktop settings if that's the result of a user's direct action in the UI and is revertable [18:29] I'd like to be able to reject those apps with a good response, and get information on developer.ubuntu.com linking to what we'll accept [18:30] stgraber: pong [18:30] I don't want an app that starts messing in gconf/gsettings when it opens without it being a visible opt-in switch [18:30] alright [18:31] you've probably seen that there's a fair discussion on ubuntu-desktop about ccsm & related apps [18:31] indeed [18:32] indeed and I'm not necessarily against apps like that in extras, but they shouldn't do anything by default, make it clear to the user about what will be changed when they click something and ensure that reverting the change works [18:33] (so effectively, that'd be a no-go for ccsm as the part about reverting changes doesn't seem to work too well ;)) [18:33] unfortunately ubuntu-tweak is a bit of a kitchen sink, it adds/removes packages & manages PPAs as well [18:33] right, ubuntu-tweak is a clear no-go if only for its use of gksudo, touching /etc and adding repositories [18:34] we don't even allow packages in the archive to add PPAs (well, except the packaging tools themselves) :) [18:34] stgraber: so is ccsm being dropped from the archive? [18:34] highvoltage: as it stands, it's likely [18:35] Before you drop it can someone see how much work it's going to be to make the screen magnifier accessible in other ways? (including the options to set type of zoom and level of zoom) [18:35] grub-customizer has an open debian ITP, so probably better to help the author get it in there [18:35] highvoltage, Pendulum: it might get dropped, anyway, that's not a discussion for the ARB to have, please discuss it on the mailing lists :) [18:35] Pendulum: we're not the ones dropping it, we're trying to sort out what's acceptable for extras.ubuntu.com [18:35] ajmitch: okay, couldn't tell who was making the final decision. Sorry! [18:36] ajmitch: yes, agreed grub-customizer is better through the Debian process [18:36] ajmitch: right, I don't believe grub-customizer would be suitable for the ARB, so we should indeed drop it and help get it in Debian [18:36] ok, I'll try & put aside some time for that & tell them in the rejection email :) [18:37] so as a general rule, the AppReviewBoard/Review page is a good place to put the guidelines about what an app can do? [18:38] ajmitch: It might be worth creating a simple AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines page [18:38] alright [18:38] that's just a list of "what we accept" [18:39] I can add that, and a canned response on the Responses page [18:39] that'd be grat, thanks [18:39] *great [18:40]