[02:16] <holstein> that dude is challenging
[02:17] <astraljava> Yep.
[02:18] <astraljava> But in all fairness, what threw me off the loop was starting vlc with the video device option. I did not find the audio device setting that way at all.
[02:32] <holstein> i hate that "im just going to get a mac" crap
[02:32] <holstein> i mean, you gotta learn to use those too
[02:32] <holstein> its just, when you drop a grand or 2, you tend to become more open to learning
[02:32] <astraljava> Some people just aren't up to it. *shrug*
[02:34] <astraljava> Seems to be trolling, too.
[02:35] <holstein> yeah. for like hours...
[02:35] <holstein> this was going on before my nap
[02:36] <astraljava> Yeah. I'm done. He's all yours.
[02:36] <holstein> i suggested pavucontrol right when the dude came in
[02:36] <holstein> hehe
[02:42] <holstein> i just feel dirty now
[02:43] <holstein> i installed all this crap, and got VLC working... 
[02:43] <holstein> whatever
[02:43] <holstein> i learned something, and thats cool
[02:47] <astraljava> I didn't install anything, and still it works. *smirk*
[02:47] <holstein> hehe
[02:48] <holstein> astraljava: i didnt have pulse on this box... or VLC
[02:48] <holstein> it was a lubuntu install
[02:48] <astraljava> Ahh... ok.
[02:58] <len> Installed todays version (Jan26) of the live DVD. ubiquity screen is too large to see the buttons on the bottom... there is already a bug about that
[02:58] <len> I added that it affects me.
[02:59] <len> I played with pulse and jackd... no sound here either... someone already mentioned that. The sound file player plays straight to jack just fine.
[03:01] <holstein> len: i copied that ln after i figured out what you were talking about
[03:01] <astraljava> len: I hope there's a bug for that, too. I know David would be willing to fix it, if he knew about it.
[03:01] <holstein> not that you werent clear... i just didnt get it
[03:01] <holstein> i got no sound from pulse
[03:01] <holstein> but i got sound using JACK
[03:02] <len> Audacious? However, none of the videos ones do. Xine does, but is a pain to setup.
[03:02] <astraljava> Sounds to me there's a problem with the pulse jack module. Can you two file the relevant bug about it?
[03:03] <len> I looked in /usr/share/xgreeters/ in Xubuntu 11.10 and there is no default.desktop there either.
[03:03] <len> But it works.
[03:04] <len> I think someone has added some functionality to lightdm and forgot to tell anyone.
[03:05] <len> The idea being there can be several files for different sessions and default points to the one in use.
[03:06] <len> Do we really need panel two on the bottom?
[03:06] <holstein> i dont like it
[03:06] <holstein> the "dock"
[03:06] <len> it seems to just take up room
[03:06] <holstein> i would like to have no dock, like it used to be
[03:06] <holstein> but, i just dont like docks
[03:06] <len> I can always add apps to the top panel
[03:07] <holstein> i use kupfer
[03:07] <len> foo YC20 drives jack nuts.
[03:07] <len> Has anyone used it ok?
[03:08] <holstein> len: not yet
[03:08] <holstein> something crashed on me
[03:08] <holstein> openshot...
[03:08] <holstein> wouldnt launch
[03:08] <len> If I try to play it with the virt keyboard, I get stuck keys and distorted sound... xruns?
[03:09] <len> Even when not playing it it is always giving jack logging errors.
[03:09] <holstein> interesting
[03:10] <holstein> well... these are the things i can do without.. comon...
[03:10] <holstein> we got time to sort some of that out i hope
[03:11] <len> I don't need it either, but if it is the first thing a new user tries, that would not leave a good taste in their mouth.
[03:11] <len> We don't have rt priv even with audio group
[03:11] <holstein> nah... i like YC20
[03:11] <holstein> len: i think/hope the kernel will do that
[03:11] <holstein> what do you think?
[03:12] <len> I don't know
[03:12] <holstein> len: i would *love* to actually run this stuff
[03:12] <holstein> test it
[03:12] <holstein> pull out whats borked
[03:12] <holstein> get a nice polished finally release for the LTS
[03:12] <holstein> len: i got it loading up today and got *so* excited about it
[03:13] <len> The is a nice organ in there already. But for me the reality is that I would prefer to use external sound modules
[03:14] <len> My machine doesn't really have the poop to run sounds as well as record audio
[03:14] <holstein> len: where are you again?
[03:14] <holstein> anywhere near me?
[03:15] <holstein> im in asheville NC
[03:15] <len> I'm on the wet coast on Vancouver Island
[03:17] <holstein> yeah....
[03:18] <astraljava> holstein: Haha. Ex-wife goes there several times a year on business.
[03:18] <holstein> astraljava: its nice
[03:18] <holstein> we have LUG if you happen to tag along sometimes
[03:18] <astraljava> You missed the ex- there.
[03:18] <holstein> astraljava: yeah... i did...
[03:18] <holstein> sorry about that
[03:19] <astraljava> Hehe. :) No worries.
[03:19] <holstein> will have to fly you in special then ;)
[03:19] <astraljava> True. :)
[03:21] <holstein> ScottL: i have "sound & video" then subgroups "audio/video production"
[03:21] <holstein> thats in 10.04, ubuntustudio
[03:21] <holstein> it looks much the same in xfce, just "multimedia" instead
[03:21] <holstein> is that OK?
[03:21] <holstein> i kind of like it that way
[03:22] <holstein> i find it less disruptive
[03:25] <len> bug #922424 
[03:26] <len> has been filed
[03:27] <len> Maybe someone will say, ja you have to put that link in as part of your distro
[03:29] <astraljava> We'll sort that out. Also, the sound not working via pulse to jack. Please file that too. I'm going to pass out now, it's 5:30 am.
[03:43] <len> I tried ... launchpad coughed on me... I'll try again.
[03:54] <ScottL> bug #918519
[03:55] <ScottL> micahg, did you say you were going to upload the above bug?
[03:55] <ScottL> not trying to pressure you, just trying to refresh my memory
[03:55] <micahg> ah, yes, sorry, haven't gotten to piloting yet, it's on my list, will try to do it tomorrow
[03:55] <ScottL> okay :)
[03:58] <ScottL> i'm wondering if this will help clear up the missing '/usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop' issue
[03:59] <ScottL> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/816809
[04:00] <ScottL> this suggest that installing lightdm-gtk-greeter fixes the problem
[04:07] <len> With reguard to the pulsejack bug. I have had three or four timeout errors from launchpad.
[04:07] <len> Can someone else try?
[04:12] <len> just as a note lightdm-gtk-greeter is installed in xubuntu 11.10 (which works) but there is still no default.desktop.
[04:13] <len> I will reboot to US 12.04 and see if it is installed there.
[04:32] <len> ScottL: The live DVD install says that lightdm-gtk-greeter is already installed.
[04:34] <len> default.desktop is not listed among the installed file though.
[04:41] <len> I find nothing in the config file(s) that would change the greeters name to default either.
[04:52] <len> the changelog for lightdm-gtk-greeter shows 3 updates to the package on Jan 18th and 19th
[04:52] <len> that would be about the time it stopped working.
[04:53] <len> The changes are to lightdm
[05:03] <len> I was looking at another gtk-greeter bug to do with translations.
[05:03] <len> This comment caught my eye:
[05:04] <len> Sorry Pjotr12345 but nobody is actively working on the gtk greeter (which has been made as an example greeter, the default greeter in Ubuntu is the unity one)
[05:05] <len> So, the gtk-greeter is an example that is not being kept up and it looks like lightdm is moving on without it.
[05:45] <len> Looking at the changelog on jan 18th at 11:10 it shows:
[05:45] <len> * Move the GTK+ and Qt greeters into their own projects
[05:48] <len> Does this mean there is now a maintainer?
[17:11] <scott-work> i think i found the problem with the lightdm stuff...
[17:11] <scott-work> and i should have remembered this previously from something micahg had said
[17:12] <scott-work> we are currently shipping lightdm-greeter-example-gtk in the seeds
[17:12] <scott-work> we should probably be shipping lightdm-gtk-greeter
[17:13] <astraljava> I was looking at the same. Should we have our own customized one?
[17:16] <astraljava> Maybe not, neither does Xubuntu.
[17:17] <astraljava> I'll make the change.
[17:18] <micahg> I'll be uploading the US stuff shortly, so just let me know when it's good
[17:19] <astraljava> micahg: It's up now. Thanks! I copied the same line from Xubuntu's desktop. I suppose that's how it works?
[17:20] <astraljava> Ahh... yeah, what scott-work said.
[17:21] <micahg> umm, where's the stuff I"m supposed to sponsor again?
[17:22] <astraljava> bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.precise/
[17:23] <micahg> no, I know where the seed is :), scott-work had some other stuff for me to sponsor
[17:23] <astraljava> Hehe. Sorry. :)
[17:24] <astraljava> Any idea what that stuff was? I could perhaps dig it up for ya.
[17:25] <micahg> ah, found it, it wasn't showing up in the queue since it's against the ubuntu studio project
[17:25] <astraljava> Oh ok.
[18:19] <scott-work> micahg: uno momento, i shall find it
[18:19] <micahg> scott-work: I found it, it was in backscroll
[18:19] <scott-work> oh, hehe
[18:20] <scott-work> micahg: thank you very much for helping us, it has been a bit of a godsend
[18:20] <scott-work> :)
[18:20] <micahg> sorry it's taken me all week
[18:21] <scott-work> micahg:  i doubt we would have gotten it done otherwise
[18:26] <holstein> w00T!
[18:27] <holstein> i dont care to reinstall to test changes made...
[18:27] <holstein> hmmm... that sounds unclear...
[18:27] <holstein> i *will* reinstall to test changes... let me know
[19:19] <holstein> announcement...
[19:20] <holstein> 14:12 < ochosi> that's why i created elementary-xfce
[19:20] <holstein> 14:12 < holstein> ochosi: nice
[19:20] <holstein> 14:12 < ochosi> which is a fork of elementary, complemented with xfce-specific stuff
[19:20] <holstein> 14:13 < holstein> ochosi: thats in the repos? or going to be?
[19:20] <holstein> 14:13 < holstein> and it would be cool for us to use it?
[19:20] <holstein> 14:13 < ochosi> atm it's part of xubuntu-artwork, but we discussed putting it in a separate package so you (and others) can  use it more easily
[19:21] <holstein> i forget what icons we were planning on using, but these are falling in our lap, and we could help test/develop them
[19:25] <astraljava> Yeah, as soon as they are separated, we could most certainly use them.
[19:26] <holstein> sounds too easy :)
[19:26] <holstein> and i like that!
[19:26] <astraljava> What do you mean?
[19:26] <holstein> astraljava: just that someone else is doing the work
[19:27] <astraljava> We're already using someone else's work anyhow. :)
[19:27] <holstein> coat-tails!
[19:27] <astraljava> Isn't that the beauty of FOSS?
[19:27] <astraljava> You don't have to write _everything_ by yourself. :)
[20:22] <astraljava> ScottL: One thing that occurred to me, are we going to be providing support for upgrading from lucid to precise?
[20:23] <holstein> astraljava: i dont see why we cant
[20:23] <holstein> it should just work right?
[20:23] <holstein> i can try it
[20:23] <holstein> when the time comes
[20:24] <astraljava> holstein: There's quite the transition, from GNOME 2 to Xfce, for instance.
[20:24] <holstein> sure, but that might help actually
[20:24] <holstein> nothing to break config wise
[20:24] <holstein> just new stuff
[20:24] <astraljava> We're still using gconf, though. I'm not sure whether that amounts to anything.
[20:25] <holstein> astraljava: we can only try i supppose
[20:25] <holstein> i would think the settings would not conflict
[20:25] <astraljava> holstein: Yep. I will try it this weekend.
[20:25] <astraljava> But I'm just thinking, that's one aspect that probably accounts to the LTS decision.
[20:26] <astraljava> If we're calling it that, then we probably do _have_ to provide support also for upgrading.
[20:27] <holstein> well, we're not doing anything to break that... 
[20:28] <astraljava> Yeah, well, one release to another is troublesome in some cases. This is a much bigger thing that we're talking about, here.
[20:29] <astraljava> IMSNHO, we need to give it a couple of runs, before we can even promise to support it.
[20:44]  * micahg guesses he can't complain about changing the per-user defaults in the -default-settings package since xubuntu does it
[20:45] <micahg> ScottL: why do you have Thunar .po files in the default-settings package?
[20:51] <SLavender> webchat.freenode isn't working right now :(
[20:52] <holstein> yup
[20:52] <holstein> webchat is down :/
[20:52] <micahg> SLavender: why do you have Thunar .po files in the default-settings package?
[20:52] <SLavender> but i don't like this chatzilla client, it's waaaaay too conspicuous for work
[20:52] <SLavender> micahg: it came that way from the xubuntu sources
[20:53] <micahg> SLavender: would you mind if that waited until Monday until I can discuss it with mr_pouit
[20:54] <astraljava> Why would we need them, cause we're using Nautilus, right?
[20:55] <SLavender> micahg: i'm okay with that, no problem
[20:56] <SLavender> but i think i agree with astraljava 
[20:56] <micahg> so do I, I just want to be sure :)
[20:56] <micahg> oh, wait, you're not using Thunar at all?
[20:56] <SLavender> micahg: we are including nautilus and using it as default (or should be)
[20:57] <SLavender> micahg: we had previously discussed that i was nervous about pulling thunar out currently because it's so tightly integrated and you suggested just including nautilus for now
[20:58] <astraljava> Oh okay.
[20:58] <micahg> I did?
[20:58] <astraljava> This conversation is confusing.
[20:58] <SLavender> micahg: i believe so ;)  actually, i'm really pretty sure
[21:04] <len> ScottL: I got a reply to my bug report on lightdm. I have forwarded it to the mailing list. It implies that this link is set as part of the theme setup
[21:05] <len> Not that we set the link but that there is a place in the theme stuff that sets what file to look for in xgreeters
[21:07] <len> Zsync is downloading todays ISO. I'll see where things are at.
[21:07] <SLavender> len: i think i had the old and decprecated lightdm greeter in the seeds, astraljava has already fixed it (i believe), and most likely micahg will update it :)
[21:08] <micahg> yeah, will get that up today
[21:08] <len> Ok I will wait till tomorrow to test it.
[21:09] <len> I had the idea it was done for today
[21:09] <micahg> SLavender: I assume you've tested the new packages and they work as intended?
[21:10] <SLavender> micahg: i did build them, but was unsure of the best method to test them to be honest
[21:10] <SLavender> which means that i did not really do a proper test of them, no
[21:10] <astraljava> Ahh... yes, will update the bug status.
[21:10] <micahg> :(, I'd prefer to know they work as intended before uploading
[21:10] <micahg> SLavender: install the packages you built
[21:11] <micahg> reboot and see if everything works as intended
[21:11] <micahg> let me do the meta now since the others need testing
[21:11] <SLavender> obviously doing this on a precise install would be preferable
[21:11] <micahg> umm...yes :), can someone else test them?
[21:12] <len> Send it to me, I'll do a fresh install.
[21:12] <SLavender> my concern was that i was unsure how this would work as an update versus a fresh install from the image
[21:12] <SLavender> i do admit that it sounds kinda stupid now that i type that out
[21:12] <micahg> well, first concern is not to break current installs, then we can fix image issues
[21:13] <SLavender> especially considering that users most likely would be updating from previous version
[21:13] <SLavender> so yes, i should have tested them
[21:13] <micahg> but we're up against the wall for alpha2 as freeze is Monday at 21:00 UTC
[21:13] <SLavender> i can get a precise install tonight, build, and test them in ppa
[21:13] <micahg> ok, no worries, I'll save the other stuff for the weekend, I'll do the meta now
[21:13] <micahg> just ping me when you think they're good
[21:19] <micahg> ok, pushed up 2 packaging changes, 1 each for -default-settings and -look
[21:22] <micahg> do you intend to ship a separate icon theme anymore?  the bzr branch just has a package with a depends?
[21:22] <micahg> it might make sense to just drop the package if elementary is seeded
[21:23] <micahg> keep in mind that xubuntu just switched to elementary-xfce, but we'll probably break that out into a separate package after alpah 2
[21:23] <micahg> *alpha
[21:23] <astraljava> micahg: ochosi was going to separate elementary-xfce as a separate package.
[21:23] <astraljava> Haha.
[21:24] <micahg> right, but I'm wondering if you intend to ever ship your own icons again
[21:24] <micahg> otherwise, we can drop the source and rely on the seed
[21:24] <astraljava> Yeah I don't know, really. I am not up-to-speed with the theming.
[21:25] <micahg> ok, can you find out for me?
[21:27] <astraljava> I will talk to Scott about it, for sure.
[21:48] <micahg> astraljava: the -meta package already has the proper depends on lightdm-gtk-greeter
[21:51] <micahg> ok, uploading the new meta
[21:51] <micahg> umm, wait, why do you need compilation tools in the desktop seed?
[21:52] <micahg> nevermind, xubuntu has it too
[21:53] <astraljava> micahg: I thought you wanted info on icons. Yeah I made the change to desktop seed regarding the greeter already.
[21:53] <micahg> astraljava: no, what I mean is that the error seems to have not been uploaded, the current meta seems to have the proper dependency
[21:54] <astraljava> That's strange.
[21:57] <micahg> ok, uploaded
[21:58] <astraljava> Thanks! I just need to find out the true cause for the X session not starting.
[22:02] <micahg> I go offline in an hour (for about 25 hours), but can upload stuff Sat night
[22:02] <micahg> it might be the lack of the new -default-settings
[22:03] <astraljava> micahg: Ok. Thanks for everything so far! Have a nice hiatus. :)
[22:03] <micahg> heh, just the Sabbath :)
[22:03] <astraljava> Well, hope it's a good one anyway. :)
[23:29] <len> Whoever: Todays Iso has an install problem. Ubiquity crashs part way through.
[23:30] <len> Are chnages made today (for tomorrow) likely to fix this? (should I wait to try that?)
[23:31] <len> Also: I tried both install from boot and install from live. They are both the same.
[23:31] <len> Both have a ubiquity crash.
[23:32] <astraljava> I don't know of any changes that might lead to that, but I'll look into it.
[23:32] <len> Also: The option of having an encrypted drive is gone.
[23:33] <len> ubiquity doesn't seem to support that.
[23:33] <len> It does support encrypted user dir.
[23:36] <len> There was at least one user who felt an encrypted drive was a make or break for them.
[23:39] <len> I don't know if it makes any difference (crash wise) but this is the first time I printed the iso with a persistent file.