[04:37] <micahg> do you people mind a new blender right before alpha2? someone is requesting a sync of 2.61
[04:42] <micahg> s/mind/want/
[04:42] <kubotu> micahg meant: "do you people want a new blender right before alpha2? someone is requesting a sync of 2.61"
[04:42]  * micahg hugs kubotu
[07:10] <holstein> micahg: i dont know enough to comment... its an LTS, but i go with your decision on that
[07:11] <micahg> I don't mind it after alpha2, it's just with alpha2 freeze Monday at 21:00, I wouldn't sync it unless the ubuntu studio devs approved since it's on your image
[07:12] <holstein> OH... i see... i was thinking an testing version of blender.. yeah, go for it
[07:14] <micahg> well, if the new version breaks the image, there isn't much time to fix it, that's why I'm hesistant
[07:16] <astraljava> holstein: Yeah, he wants someone to test the newer version, and _then_ say 'Yea we can have that!' :)
[07:17] <holstein> good point... theres not really a way to test it, is there?
[07:17] <micahg> well, more so someone taking the responsibility off my shoulders if something breaks :)
[07:17] <holstein> if it runs sucessful, does that mean it wont bread the build?
[07:17] <astraljava> ailo: len: Do you have the precise installs up and running? Can you install the newer blender from sid, and give it a go?
[07:17] <holstein> i have a 12.04 install, assuming i can figure out how to install that version
[07:17] <astraljava> micahg: And why would anyone do that, without the procedure I described above? :D
[07:18] <micahg> I'm fine writing in the bug to be sync'd after alpha2, the only reason to sync now is if you want the new version on the imge
[07:18] <astraljava> holstein: Oh! Yeah, can you do that, then?
[07:18] <astraljava> micahg: Understood.
[07:18] <holstein> astraljava: lets see if ailo / len pick it up... im slammed til wednesday looks like
[07:18] <astraljava> I would not want to do that either, unless we have someone who knows what to do with it, to say it's trusted.
[07:18] <micahg> I can throw up a "backport" for precise in my PPA if you like 
[07:18] <holstein> micahg: who asked for it?... maybe we could just ask them
[07:19] <micahg> Bug #915248 
[07:19] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 915248 in blender (Ubuntu) "Please sync Blender 2.61-2 from Debian" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/915248
[07:19] <astraljava> Mike, you on that?
[07:19] <holstein> dont know that person...
[07:20] <astraljava> I meant, can you ask on the bug? I've never used that app.
[07:20] <holstein> ill make some time tomorrow evening and check in... see where you guys are with it
[07:20] <holstein> i should have time to do it then... i gotta get horizontal
[07:21] <astraljava> That's a bit late for Alpha-2. Ok.
[07:21] <holstein> i played my 2nd electric bass gig in about 15 years ;)
[07:21] <micahg> also, being that it hasn't migrated to testing yet worries me (RC bugs were just fixed, but the new build was uploaded yesterday)
[07:21] <holstein> went late
[07:21] <holstein> so, its gotta be tonite?
[07:21] <astraljava> micahg: ACK
[07:21] <astraljava> holstein: No, it's not imperative.
[07:21] <astraljava> We don't _have to_ have it for Alpha-2.
[07:22] <holstein> cool... ill check in then... GN !
[07:22]  * micahg will comment and subscribe and you guys can sort it out
[07:22] <holstein> micahg: thanks for bringing it up...
[07:23] <micahg> no problem
[07:24] <astraljava> micahg: I asked on the bug, so we'll see. Thanks for the heads-up!
[07:25] <micahg> astraljava: you might want to subscribe to the bug so you get followup comments
[07:26] <astraljava> micahg: Am I not automatically getting them after a comment?
[07:26] <micahg> nope
[07:26] <astraljava> Oh ok, thanks!
[07:26] <micahg> and I wrote there that it shouldn't be syncd before alpha2 without and Ubuntu Studio dev ACK in the bug
[07:27] <astraljava> Right.
[07:32] <astraljava> micahg: How was the day-off? :)
[07:33] <micahg> heh, fine, thanks  :)
[07:34] <astraljava> Good, good. :)
[16:28] <ScottL> micahg, i built the -settings, -look, and -icon-theme packages and installed them
[16:28] <ScottL> micahg, i did run into a problem installing them on an existing xubuntu install
[16:29] <ScottL> micahg, it was trying to overwrite an existing .xsessions (i think, i have screenshot) file
[16:29] <ScottL> micahg, i imagine that i'll need to do some bash in a preinst file to see if an .xsession file exist and then rename it
[16:30] <ScottL> micahg, along with a postrm to rename the original .xsession back to it's original name
[16:31] <ScottL> micahg, do have have any suggestions for an example...i'm just going to dig through some of the xubuntu code in launchpad to see if i can find examples
[16:31] <ScottL> micahg, although i seem to remember the -default-settings package had some preinst and postrm files
[16:31] <ScottL>  
[16:31] <ScottL> micahg, as to the blender upgrade before A2...
[16:31] <ScottL> micahg, i don't think we gain much compared to the risk we take
[16:31] <ScottL> micahg, breaking an image is bad right before A2
[16:32] <ScottL> micahg, and we still have the rest of the cycle to test the new blender
[16:32] <ScottL> micahg, for example, starting right after A2, correct?
[16:32] <ScottL>  
[16:32] <ScottL> an interesting note about packages and building and such
[16:33] <ScottL> i think i learned a rather valuable lesson in testing the three new packages
[16:33] <ScottL> somehow the bzr code for -look didn't include me renaming the wallpapers directory
[16:34] <ScottL> and it wouldn't build for me in ppa
[16:52] <len> Hi, just woke up... I don't know blender well at all. And the Iso I have won't install.
[16:53] <ScottL> len, the mail list is showing a failure of the liveFS on the 64 bit
[16:53] <ScottL> tomorrow morning i'll bug cjwatson about this
[16:54] <len> Well the last iso I got had a bug that has been fixed. But then yesterdays iso didn't come (no build?)
[16:54] <astraljava> ScottL: The i386 mail says failure as well.
[16:54] <len> I figured both.
[16:58] <ScottL> astraljava, did it, i pushed several emails for the list but only saw the 64 bit :/
[16:59] <ScottL> errr, did it?
[16:59] <len> Looking through that email I can't find a fail and the only error is a grub thing at the bottom
[16:59] <astraljava> Yes, it did.
[16:59] <astraljava> E: Unable to locate package ubuntustudio-font-meta^
[16:59] <ScottL> astraljava, also,i'm having trouble with the new -default-settings package and maybe you can give me some direction
[16:59] <ScottL> http://imagebin.org/196207
[17:00] <ScottL> this is when i try to install the new ubuntustudio-default-settings over an existing xubuntu-defrault-settings package
[17:00] <ScottL> i thought renaming the .Xdefaults file wouldl fix the problem and then i could install the new ubuntustudio-defaults-settings
[17:00] <ScottL> but it still gives me this error
[17:00] <ScottL> i'm going to remove xubuntu-defautl-settings later and see if i can isntall ubuntustudio-defaults-settings
[17:01] <ScottL> unless someone gives me a good suggestion otherwise
[17:01] <astraljava> Yeah. I think you need to do what you already described, since dpkg-divert is frowned upon.
[17:02] <ScottL> astraljava, rename or remove?
[17:02] <astraljava> The renaming thing. (sorry, on the phone..)
[17:09] <len> Will we be able to add any more apps after A2? It seems there are still some apps named in the work flows that are not there.
[17:10] <astraljava> Yes, it's possible, although we gotta be sure that they work, so that we won't lose the milestone in build errors. What are we missing?
[17:11] <len> audacity is one, I would have to go through and check more close for more.
[17:11] <len> That one happens to be at the top of the list.
[17:12] <astraljava> Yeah ok, that one is easy, as it's for sure in the archives.
[17:12] <len> It may be better to redefine the work flows.
[17:13] <ScottL> len, i haven't even thought about work flows and new seeds at this point
[17:13] <ScottL> the point is that i want to get A2 set with the xfce transition basically 99% there first and the live-dvd working
[17:13] <len> I will spend some time later and make a list... I may have to look for an older iso that I can load to check with.
[17:14] <ScottL> len, astraljava :  i have audacity on my list to add, but i wanted to clean up the audo workflow first
[17:14] <len> The live dvd seems to be working pretty good. The only thing missing is RT.
[17:14] <ScottL> i promise it will be in there
[17:14] <len> Same on the install.
[17:14] <ScottL> len, i have the no -rt in live and after install on a list to talk with cjwatson about tomorrow
[17:15] <ScottL> len, is there anything else you notice that should be fixed
[17:15] <ScottL> please discount the crappy theme, this is because the -default-settings package isn't  updated yet
[17:15] <ScottL>  
[17:15] <len> I can see that.
[17:15] <ScottL> micahg, astraljava :  i removed the xubuntu-default-settings package and installed ubuntustudio-default-settings package and it worked fine
[17:16] <ScottL> micahg, astraljava :  is there a way i can handle that in the new ubuntustudio-default-settings package?   in the control file or similar?
[17:16] <len> I need  a new iso to check the default.desktop thing.
[17:16] <ScottL> i've never really had to worry about removing a package per se before, just saying that it conflicts with antoher pacakge
[17:16] <ScottL> len, you mean the lightdm bug that prevented x from starting?
[17:17] <len> yes
[17:17] <ScottL> aye
[17:17] <len> Since it was fixed there hasn't been a new iso.
[17:18] <astraljava> ScottL: I thought you had it figured out already. I would install an /etc/skel/.Xdefaults.ubuntustudio file, then in postinst rename the original, and then rename ours as that.
[17:19] <astraljava> Although, I must admit, I'm not sure what is the best practice.
[17:19] <len> Tried to look at blender on 11.04.. it seg faults. Maybe that is why I don't know what it is.
[17:19] <ScottL> astraljava, no, i meant i opened a terminal, renamed the package, and then tried to install our -defaults-settings
[17:19] <astraljava> I would assume as that, but then of course removing xubuntu-default-settings removes the wrong file.
[17:19] <astraljava> Hmm...
[17:19] <ScottL> astraljava, i was doing it very, very hacky
[17:20] <astraljava> ScottL: How exactly did you rename a package?
[17:20] <ScottL> astraljava, but i see your point about isntalling ours as .Xdefaults.ubuntustudio then changing in postin
[17:20] <ScottL> astraljava,  i opened a terminal using 'sudo thunar', then found /etc/skel/.Xdefaults, right clicked on it, renamed to .Xdefault.original
[17:21] <astraljava> len: Micah thought (IIRC) that it might have been about that missing -default-settings package.
[17:21] <astraljava> ScottL: So you did not rename a _package_, but that file. And yes, obviously it would work then.
[17:22] <astraljava> dpkg refuses to overwrite an already existing system file.
[17:22] <ScottL> astraljava, the error was actually not saying that it didn't like overwritting a file
[17:22] <astraljava> dpkg-divert can work around that, but I forget why it is not recommended.
[17:22] <ScottL> it said it didn't like it because it was a file for xubuntu-default-settings (which was currently installed)
[17:22] <astraljava> ScottL: Err... yes it does, in that imagebin screenshot.
[17:23] <len> C U later, I am playing in an hour. Have to go.
[17:23] <astraljava> "...trying to overwrite '/etc/skel/.Xdefaults', ..."
[17:23] <ScottL> bye len , thanks again
[17:24] <ScottL> astraljava, ochosi is suggesting to use "replaces" in the control file...that should work no?
[17:24] <astraljava> ScottL: Yes, of course, but that then removes the whole xubuntu-default-settings package. I guess we can do that, but that does not get reinstalled, if user then wants to uninstall ours.
[17:25] <astraljava> But it might be a better option after all. I dunno.
[17:25] <astraljava> Will have to talk to a MOTU about it.
[17:26] <astraljava> ...or actually look for an example in other similar packages.
[17:34] <astraljava> ScottL: At least neither lubuntu nor xubuntu use replaces in their control files, but use postinst scripts extensively. Granted, there's not this particular case happening, but I think we should do something similar.
[17:39] <ScottL> astraljava, let's view this from two perspectives...1) a full install from ISO image and 2) a user "upgrading" from *buntu to ubuntu studio
[17:39] <ScottL> 1) i don't think using replaces matters then in this case
[17:40] <ScottL> 2) a user can remove and remove the ubuntustudio-default-settings package and then install *buntu-default-settings
[17:40] <ScottL> but i agree that #2 isn't a very friendly or automated process
[17:41] <ScottL> i think your suggestion about installing .Xdefaults.ubuntustudio and then renaming is a good choice
[17:42] <ScottL> astraljava, the ironically funny thing is that the file being overwritten is the same as the file doing the overwritting
[17:42] <ScottL> at least in this case (i.e. xubuntu -> ubuntustudio)
[17:55] <astraljava> Isn't any other flavor doing that?
[18:00] <astraljava> ScottL: If no other flavor needs that file, then we would test in postinst whether it exists, and if yes, then do nothing. If not, then install it. Simple as that.
[18:00] <astraljava> If the file is exactly the same as the one Xubuntu installs.
[18:03] <ScottL> for xubuntu it is the same because i used their packages as a starting point :-)
[18:03] <astraljava> ScottL: Yeah ok.
[18:03] <ScottL> i would expect others would have a .Xdefaults package though
[18:04] <ScottL> perhaps not ubuntu at some point (maybe already) since they are using unity and will move to wayland at some point
[18:04] <ScottL> but most likely kubuntu does i would guess
[18:06] <astraljava> Nope.
[18:06] <astraljava> $ apt-file search .Xdefaults
[18:06] <astraljava> xemacs21-support: /usr/share/xemacs-21.4.22/etc/sample.Xdefaults
[18:06] <astraljava> xubuntu-default-settings: /etc/skel/.Xdefaults
[18:07] <astraljava> I gotta look into what it actually does.
[18:07] <micahg> a simple replaces would work for overwriting the file, but I think we need a more generic solution
[18:09] <astraljava> micahg: Wouldn't replaces remove xubuntu-d-s first? It's a little overkill, IMHO.
[18:09] <micahg> no, breaks/conflicts would do that :) 
[18:10] <astraljava> Oh, right.
[18:21] <astraljava> micahg: Why are we seeing this in the CD Image mail? E: Unable to locate package ubuntustudio-font-meta^
[18:21] <astraljava> micahg: Package seems to be there, though.
[18:22] <astraljava> I notice there's the ^ indicating a task, but it's constructed exactly the same way as -desktop, and that seems to work fine.
[18:22] <micahg> I'll have a look in a bit, we missed today's image though
[18:26] <astraljava> Yeah, it seems to have worked up until 27th, for version 0.94. Yesterday it couldn't find the 0.95 version anymore, though I'm not actually sure when it has landed into the archives.
[18:47] <micahg> astraljava: I think it's ok for today
[18:47] <astraljava> micahg: Ok, there was just a random glitch, then. I suppose. Thanks!
[18:48] <micahg> we won't know for sure until today's images are published
[18:48] <astraljava> Are they rolled late today?
[18:48] <micahg> I don't think so
[18:49] <astraljava> Hmm... there were no directories in people.c.c/~ubuntu-archive/ for today.
[18:51] <micahg> are there any mails in moderation  for the -devel list?
[18:52] <astraljava> I don't think so, Scott just recently cleared the queue, and then we saw yesterday's results.
[19:09] <ScottL> astraljava, cjwatson had set the ubuntu studio images to build later in the day for some reason, i can't remember currently
[19:10] <ScottL> i think it was to help make sure that something built before our to make sure it would build or similar
[19:12] <ScottL> micahg, should we install .Xdefaults.ubuntustudio, then rename .Xdefaults -> .Xdefaults.orig and .Xdefaults.ubuntustudio -> .Xdefaults?
[19:12] <astraljava> ScottL: No, it is back to around 1800 UTC now, but it only just got published.
[19:12] <ScottL> astraljava, oh, hmmm, maybe it was changed back when we switched to live
[19:12] <astraljava> micahg: Sadly, the same error is there today as well.
[19:12] <micahg> ok, I"ll dig further
[19:13] <astraljava> Thanks!
[19:13] <micahg> ScottL: I think the settings should be per login env, not per user, really both Xubuntu and US need changes for this
[19:13] <ScottL> astraljava, just checked listadmin again and we got new emails about the liveFS
[19:14] <ScottL> micahg, can this be done before A2?
[19:15] <micahg> ScottL: that I'm not sure, in the mean time, I think we should just add a replaces on xubuntu-default-settings for a2
[19:15] <ScottL> micahg, that i can do :)
[19:15] <ScottL> i'll get this into my ppa and retest it
[19:15] <ScottL> then i'll push to bzr
[19:19] <micahg> ah, it can't find the task, not the package
[19:23] <micahg> I think I got it
[19:24] <micahg> umm, I should probably consult with cjwatson
[19:32] <micahg> asked in #ubuntu-devel
[19:46] <astraljava> Hmm... I don't fully understand the STRUCTURE file.
[19:50] <micahg> ok, I think we've got it, cjwatson will respin
[19:51] <astraljava> Yeah ok. It was just a notion. :)
[19:53] <micahg> astraljava: I don't understand it entirely either, that's why I wanted to consult with cjwatson, my understanding is a little better now though :)
[19:54] <astraljava> Heheh. :) Well, if you feel like sharing, please do. I didn't have such a pleasure. :)
[19:58] <ScottL> was the discussion in #ubuntu-devel ?
[19:58] <micahg> so, each line has a task with a list of tasks it depends on
[19:59] <ScottL> ^^^ the STRUCTURE file
[19:59] <micahg> graphics depends on font-meta in the graphics seed file, but wasn't set up that way in STRUCTURE
[19:59] <astraljava> Oh okay, now it makes more sense. Thanks!
[20:21] <ScottL> again, micahg , thank you very much for you help with studio!
[21:04] <astraljava> We have a new gift from Micah and Colin! :D
[21:04] <astraljava> Have at it, folks. I'm gonna watch the NHL All Stars game. :)
[21:13] <ScottL> astraljava, any idea how to make changes to the ubuntustudio-meta package?
[21:13] <ScottL> astraljava, specifically the -audio package where the rtprio.py is kept?
[21:13] <ScottL> we need to disable it or remove it as it's adding the limits.d file
[21:15] <astraljava> ScottL: I'll look into it, one second. Err... well, several. :)
[21:15] <ScottL> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/ubuntustudio-meta/precise/view/head:/rtprio.py
[21:16] <micahg> ScottL: debian/ubuntustudio-audio.install
[21:16] <ScottL> it's under 'ubuntu branches'
[21:16] <micahg> ScottL: what do you want done?
[21:17] <ScottL> micahg, i wanted to to either remove or comment out rtprio.py
[21:18] <micahg> ScottL: do you still want ubuntustudio-audio-rtprio.conf installed?
[21:18] <ScottL> micahg, it's adding lines to limits.d that have now been introduced into the jackd package but placed into a different file
[21:18] <ScottL> micahg, i don't think we need it anymore since jackd handles it
[21:18] <micahg> ok, I'll comment out both lines for the time being
[21:19] <ScottL> micahg, additionally, something has been apparently renamed the /limits.d/audio.conf file as /limits.d/audio.conf.disabled
[21:19] <ScottL> i'm not sure what is doing that though :/
[21:20] <len>  would guess the jackd package
[21:22] <len> I am downloading todays Iso. Will try it out and make a list of any apps missing for workflows as listed on thw workflow page
[21:22] <ScottL> len, but the jackd is what installs the audio.conf file, i wouldn't expect it to also .disable it as well, but i can look at the code though
[21:22] <ScottL> micahg, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/26/%23ubuntustudio-devel.html @04:23 is where they are talking about it
[21:23] <ScottL> if we don't keep the audio.conf file from being renamed to audio.conf.disabled then we don't have -rt privileges for the user (in the audio group)
[21:23] <len> I think it disables it unless rt is oked at install time. ubiquity doesn't let the user do that.
[21:23]  * ScottL is going outside with son for a while to push on swing :)
[21:23] <len> We may want to do that with a postinstall script.
[21:24] <len> Maybe as part of a theme package?
[21:25] <micahg> not sure, I've got a meta upload pending, so just tell me what you need
[21:29] <astraljava> micahg: I suppose we can just drop them both, at the moment (in Scott's absence)
[21:29] <astraljava> ...so you get the upload done.
[21:30] <micahg> there's a postinst script at the moment I"m not quite sure how to clean up
[21:30] <astraljava> Ok, let me have a look too.
[21:37] <astraljava> micahg: It only deals with rtprio.py, which we're not installing per recent decision, so the postinst can go too.
[21:37] <micahg> right, I'm just wondering if we need a prerm to clean it up
[21:38] <astraljava> Ahh... sorry. I suppose so, when upgrading.
[21:43] <astraljava> if [ -e /usr/share/ubuntustudio-audio/rtprio.py ]
[21:43] <astraljava>     then
[21:43] <astraljava>       rm /usr/share/ubuntustudio-audio/rtprio.py 
[21:43] <astraljava>     fi
[21:43] <astraljava> micahg: Will that ^^ do? Otherwise just a copy of .postinst.
[21:44] <astraljava> Oh, that'd be in the upgrade case.
[21:44] <micahg> copy postinst and add that in for upgrade, ok, sounds good since it removes itself on upgrade anyways
[21:50] <astraljava> micahg: I have an incoming commit, but did you do changes to the branch?
[21:50] <micahg> which branch?  I don't use branches for -meta changes like that
[21:51] <astraljava> Ahh... ok. How does that work, then?
[21:51] <micahg> I just download the -meta and update it
[21:51] <micahg> it pulls from the seeds
[21:51] <astraljava> Oh ok. So you'll do the changes we agreed above?
[21:52] <micahg> yeah
[21:52] <astraljava> Great! Thanks! :)
[21:55] <len> astraljava: The live DVD does not allow the install of an encrypted drive/partition. It seemed there was at least one party interested in that. Should that be  filed as a bug?
[21:56] <len> The alt install allowed this.
[22:00] <astraljava> len: That sounds a bit strange. I'll ask from the Xubuntu guys first.
[22:01] <len> It does allow an encrypted home directory, but not drive/partition.
[22:03] <len> Ubiquity has three choices, use a whole disk, shrink current os partitions and use whats left or set your own partitions.
[22:05] <len> With the alt install, there were 5 or 6 choices and one was to encrypt the whole install (except for the /boot directory)
[22:05] <scott-couch> len, you were right about jackd
[22:05] <scott-couch> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/jack-audio-connection-kit/oneiric/view/head:/debian/jackd1.postinst
[22:05] <len> I took a look at the manual partitioning and there is no way that I can see to do that from there.
[22:05] <scott-couch> disables the .conf file
[22:06] <len> I figgred.
[22:06] <len> *figured
[22:11] <len> That probably also explains why the live dvd doesn't have RT
[22:18] <astraljava> len: Micah said ubiquity has only supported encrypted home, so that's not a regression in the package, only in functionality when compared to the alternate installer. :)