[00:21] duanedesign if he's here [00:23] jono: whats up? [00:38] jono: saw your question in #ubuntuone. I have not run that before, but it looks right to me :) [00:43] duanedesign, its ok, I sorted it [00:43] thanks! === cjohnston is now known as cwt-bugs === cwt-bugs is now known as cjohnston === fenris is now known as Guest45833 === Guest45833 is now known as ejat === fenris is now known as Guest67783 [07:38] good morning [08:04] good morning [08:04] morning dholbach [08:04] hey jono [08:04] jono, wow, can't you sleep? [08:04] hehe, indeed [08:04] busy [08:05] dholbach, I sent you an email re. accomplishments [08:05] yep, I saw it [08:05] but I spent much of the weekend working on it so now the instructions are a little different [08:05] but I was too busy with UDW, dev data + graphs, advisory board and other stuff to do something about it :/ [08:06] no worries! [08:06] well I put the branch in https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntuaccomplishments [08:06] and created a separate branch where the accomplishments files can live [08:06] https://code.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntuaccomplishments/ubuntu-community [08:07] the README in lp:ubuntuaccomplishments now explains how to set it up [08:07] cool [08:07] I simplified much of it over the weekend [08:08] at some stage it probably might make sense to transition over the core code to a core team and to open up the restrictions for submitting accomplishments [08:08] ... at some stage :) [08:10] dholbach, oh totally [08:10] jono, did you see https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/392087_10150484402243230_729453229_8726511_946604781_n.jpg? [08:11] oh wow! [08:11] did he get married? [08:11] it /might/ be a wedding photo :) [08:11] :-) [08:11] his profile says engaged - so I'm not sure [08:12] he looks a bit blurry, but like a blurry happy man :) [08:13] indeed :-) [08:14] sweet, I have my trophies dir now syncing over U1 to a headless U1 server [08:14] not far off getting the verification piece in place now [08:15] hola dpm [08:15] hey dpm [08:15] hey dholbach, hey jono [08:15] good morning all! [08:37] james_w, if you later have a tiny little bit of time for http://pad.lv/mps/harvest I'd appreciate it :) [08:40] aloha [08:40] hey czajkowski [08:54] ok, bed for me [08:54] night all! [08:57] good night jono [08:57] nn [08:58] night! [09:27] popey: got time for a quick PM? [10:11] o/ [11:47] popey: cheers :) [11:48] np [13:36] where does the docs team hang out? [13:39] -doc [13:39] although it's generally pretty quiet [13:39] just try to get in touch with mathew east (I think) his name is. [13:40] Alos, mailinglist. [13:45] nigelb: do you know his nick? [13:45] mhall119: mdke [13:46] Right, thanks Pendulum :) [13:46] * nigelb did thank [13:47] thanks Pendulum and nigelb [13:48] :) [14:21] mhall119: ok according to my last email they just want you to fill out the form [14:22] jcastro: who wants me to do what? When, where and why? [14:22] oh, well you do it at some point [14:22] I thought you were just asking me how [14:22] context jcastro [14:23] guidebook [14:23] I wanted the name of the guy in canonical who spearheaded it [14:23] OH. [14:23] david mandala [14:23] ah, now I remember,thanks [14:23] is this for linaro? [14:23] because if it is chris just called me and I explained it [14:24] jcastro: no, just for my own memory [14:24] ok [14:24] so I know who to pass cjohnston off to when he comes asking [14:24] so, when the time comes you just go to their page and sign up for the middle plan [14:24] cool [14:24] and then someone mails you and then it's easy from there [14:24] jcastro: did you see that we got some contributions to make summit more mobile friendly? [14:25] I did [14:25] from the birthday boy, sil! [14:25] heh, yup [14:25] glad to know this is how he spends his birthday time [14:26] we should all download birthday e-cards and share them with his U1 account [14:26] jcastro: do we pay guidebook for every event? [14:26] yes [14:26] so, at some point summit doing great on a mobile is a good thing to have instead of doing that? [14:26] yeah [14:26] but guidebook does things that we'll need [14:27] like, putting the sponsors in there, etc. [14:27] I agree. [14:27] their value (IMO) isn't the guidebook as much as it's 0 touch for us [14:27] we just give them the URL of UDS and they set the whole thing up, it's literally no work. [14:27] it should Just work (tm) unless we screw up summit. [14:28] jcastro: except they don't pull in user schedules [14:28] they do, it's just not connected to summit [14:28] nigelb: you'd better not screw up summit [14:28] if you use the guidebook and make your own schedule then it does that [14:28] I'm taking a summit vacation this cycle. [14:28] heh [14:28] jcastro: yeah, but now you're maintaining 2 schedules [14:28] Actually, I almost took an ubuntu vacation. [14:28] one in LP/Summit and one in Guidebook [14:29] mhall119: right [14:29] mhall119: it's your baby now, your call. :) [14:29] though I personally would go at least one more with guidebook just to have one less thing to worry about until after you get a UDS under your belt [14:29] unless sil comes back with major patches, we'll still be using it [14:30] someone from kubuntu was working on a free client as well [14:30] THE BEST PART. [14:30] but it was just a clone I think, it wasn't like tied to summit iirc [14:30] jcastro: ah, ok [14:30] jcastro: Remember when you always do the "oh dude, thsi broke", mhall119 already will know what broke and will be writing a fix for it. [14:30] yeah [14:30] This is win. [14:30] we really found the perfect sucker to do this [14:30] I mean, person [14:30] haha [14:31] those keys are right next to each othere! [14:31] nigelb: that's been the case for at least a year now [14:31] I make that mistake too [14:31] mhall119: Except, you're going to be the guy seeing the breakage as well :D [14:31] * cprofitt waves [14:31] nigelb: I was seeing it before too [14:32] * nigelb waves to cprofitt [14:32] cprofitt: hey, how's the arm [14:32] did you eat that cheese? [14:32] mhall119: I mean, things like sponsorship. I almost never touch it. [14:32] I did [14:37] jcastro: arm is fine -- doing well... bad weekend though for other reasons. Car leaking fluids - trying to get a new one today -- youngest daughter broke her foot; going to ortho at 10:30 [14:38] cprofitt: can't catch a break can youA? [14:38] seemingly not this year, but that happens at times [14:38] and the year is young still [14:38] :-) [14:42] cprofitt: dang, does your family do daredevil stunts on the weekend? [14:43] jcastro: my two youngest were playing 'Gorilla' [14:43] * cprofitt facepalms [14:43] and she jumped off the toybox and hit the floor wrong [14:43] oh fun [15:16] jcastro, you asked about updating apps in d.u.c quite a while ago, but got no answer. I've finally digged out how to do it and documented it here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/updating-your-app/ - I think it'd be a good idea to feature it in askubuntu so it's easier to find. Do you want to ask it there and I'll reply with the answer? [15:18] there is an existing question for that [15:18] one sec [15:18] I remember someone asking [15:20] give me a sec to find it [15:21] jcastro, ah cool, even better :) [15:22] http://askubuntu.com/questions/64912/will-applications-in-the-software-center-receive-updates-of-new-versions [15:22] that doesn't seem to be what we need though is it? [15:23] no, it's not really the same thing [15:23] oh, I found this one while looking that needs to have a developer.u.c answer: http://askubuntu.com/questions/16446/how-to-get-my-software-into-ubuntu [15:23] ok, I will reask my question on there dpm [15:24] jcastro, cool, thanks. That one ^ already has a d.u.c answer, the d.u.c is mentioned [15:25] but I should probably review it [15:25] oh right, sorry, it was buried to me [15:25] but yeah, a review wouldn't hurt [15:25] dpm: what mailing list did I send that mail to? I totally forgot where it is [15:25] jcastro, ubuntu-app-devel [15:26] "How do I update my application in the software center?" sound like a good title? [15:27] yeah, that sounds good [15:27] or 'my own', perhaps [15:30] http://askubuntu.com/questions/99900/how-do-i-update-my-own-application-in-the-software-center [15:30] feel free to submit edits to make the question be exactly what you want and I can approve them on the spot. [15:34] jcastro, cool, thanks. I've just answered it as well [15:35] hey so, let me ask you a theoretical question [15:35] what happens when an app author says [15:35] "hey wait a minute, why am I in the archive, screw that, remove me so I can just go offcycle from ubuntu and upgrade at my own pace." [15:39] jcastro, in that case, he should probably talk to the package maintainer and request the removal from the archive. Unfortunately, right now the policy is that you cannot have "My Apps" apps if they are already in the archive. I'd personally much like to allow both, and we've talked about it, but right now there is no work in progress towards that [15:48] dpm, wouldn't that make it more difficult to sell free software in USC? [15:49] hey jo-erlend, I hadn't noticed you were here too! :) - In which way do you think it would make it more difficult? [15:49] dpm, that's a new development. I only joined a couple of days ago. :) [15:50] well. Let's say I write an app and I would like to make money from it, but I do not want to use a proprietary license. So I put it for sale as GPL in USC at $5usd. But then MOTU adds the same version to Universe. I'll have to compete with myself? [15:52] morning all [15:52] jo-erlend: it would allow your users to first try, and then pay when they like it [15:52] morning jono :) [15:52] hey jo-erlend [15:52] hows things? [15:52] JanC, what would that mechanism look like? [15:52] hey jono [15:53] it would also be interesting to allow USC to operate on a donate sort of model [15:53] jono, good. I've applied for membership, and I think that'll be considered tomorrow, so I'm excited about that. :) [15:53] hey dholbach [15:53] jo-erlend, nice! [15:53] Top of the morning to you all! [15:53] hey bkerensa [15:53] good morning jono [15:55] jo-erlend: I didn't look at the possibilities in depth, was just thinking that having the same application in both would make that possible [15:56] JanC, it is a seriously difficult topic. [15:56] jo-erlend: alternatively, you could also offer some additional value in the paid version, of course [15:56] some people might even have difficulty understanding the concept of paying for free software. :) [15:57] JanC, full circle then. Why should the extended version not also be available in universe? [15:57] companies pay a lot for free software ;) [15:57] I donate to Mozilla every year so I guess I pay for free software (Heck and I only use Thunderbird :P) [15:58] jo-erlend: many of those people probably have difficulty to pay for closed source software too ;) [15:59] JanC, that is a valid point and I've argued that myself. But then I'd rather have payment being optional than to have the same software in two places. [15:59] anyway... Dinner! :) [16:00] dholbach, all set? [16:00] yep [16:00] go go go! :) [16:00] dholbach, creating hangout [16:01] jo-erlend: from a maintenance/support PoV two different versions might be more work indeed [16:02] which will happen, as the paid version will probably get updates with new features much quicker [16:05] jono, still there? [16:07] balloons: IIRC, the "pay what you like" concept for USC has been tossed around [16:07] to support both donating to open-source projects, as well as allowing humble-indie-bundle type sales [16:25] oooh [16:27] mhall119, yes, that would be cool.. But to answer jo-erlend's question, users could chose to pay (or not) for the software and consider it a "donation" [16:27] mhall119: Apparently there is a pay what you like Panera bread shop in Portland somewhere and that model isn't working for them so well :P but then again USC doesn't have to pay power bills, lease and employees :) [16:28] pay what you want works best for intangible items [16:28] pay what you like is different, but I'm sure you've heard of the bagel guy. he simply asks people to pay, and leaves a box to do so [16:29] bkerensa, do they pay what they like to their employees and food supply vendors? :-) [16:30] dpm, all set? [16:31] jono, yep! [16:31] balloons: Nope which is why they are not doing so well... Apparently Panera turned three of their bread shops nationwide into pay what you want shops.... I just know the one in Portland has had issus ;) [16:31] issues* [16:32] dpm, invite sent [16:41] I think pay-what-you-want is better for smaller businesses than Panera [16:42] The perception is that Panera can afford to not receive as much as, let's say, a smaller home-town bakery [16:42] we ask people to pay-if/what-they-want for Ubuntu CDs at computer fairs... ;) [16:42] my perception is that their chicken pot pie in a bread bowl is awesome. [16:43] my perception is that chicken pot pie sounds awesome [16:44] jcastro: We had some of those oven-baked frozen pot pies on Thursday [16:44] Not as good as the real thing, but they do in a pinch [16:44] snap-l: I think having direct contact with the people who profit from donations is what is important, not necessarily the size of the company [16:45] JanC: Yeah, it's harder to tell the guy sitting at a table to suck it [16:46] I've asked about donations to OSS in the software center before, and it's a complicated mess that is nearly impossible to solve [16:46] snap-l: also, if you know that the people in Panera shops don't get (properly) paid if they don't get enough money, you'd probably give more [16:47] (although in practice it would be illegal not to pay employees, of course) [16:47] so we're back to the "they get paid anyway" [16:48] bkerensa: well the pay-what-you-like is evidently working out well for indie game developers, so if we can offer them USC as a sales channel for that I think it would be great for everyone [16:51] the funny thing is that some people pay way more than you would expect, which helps even out the ones who don't pay (much) [16:52] e.g. we have got 20 € for an Ubuntu CD-R(!) more than once [16:54] (that's > 26 USD) [16:57] JanC, that's awesome.. and clearly someone wanted to make sure others could get a cd [16:58] balloons: yes, it's always existing users (who don't really need it) who do that [16:58] JanC: I've had people leave $20 and not even take a CD [16:59] it's more a "support a cause you care about" than "pay what you think it's worth" [16:59] which is why it works for Ubuntu and indie games, but not so much for Panera [16:59] mhall119: that too, although generally we would give them some other stuff then [16:59] posters, t-shirts, etc. [16:59] "increase shareholder value" isn't a cause most people will support [17:00] ..., stickers, whatever we happen to have with us ;) [17:00] JanC: all I had were Qimo CDs, so it really was just a straight donation [17:00] or we insist they take a CD and give it to someone else ☺ [17:03] also, people obviously *want* to pay for open source: http://gparted.org/donations.php [17:05] and the variations in donations probably reflects on how much people *can* donate in some cases... [17:12] http://www.linuxmint.com/donors.php also [17:14] popey: funny how some of those donate 1 USD to get their "cialis" website listed there... :P [17:15] yeah [17:16] well, I suppose I'd rather get paid 1 USD like that than have them spam comments/forums ☺ [17:17] especially if they do that repeatedly to stay on the first page of the list [17:19] 1500 USD donations is also quite impressive [17:21] http://members.shaw.ca/bcc4foss/index.html --> interesting! [17:23] bodhi_zazen: hey you're on the forums council right? [17:24] JanC, I like the BCC4FOSS link! [18:01] I call it a day - see you all tomorrow! :) [18:01] mhall119, all set? [18:01] night dholbach! [18:01] night dholbach! [18:01] daker, oh, also: I hope you didn't mind I uploaded pictures of you to the internet ;-) [18:04] mhall119, hellooooo! :-) [18:15] hi all [18:17] ok, calling it a day here too, see you all tomorrow! [18:32] jcastro: Do you think you might have time to do a presentation when you come for OSCON? I'm sure quite a few would be interested in a talk on Cloud/juju [18:32] heck yeah [18:32] that's why I'm going. :) [18:32] well your coming for OSCON :P [18:32] I mean a talk for our LoCo [18:32] :) [18:33] oh, when does your loco meet? [18:33] we have lots of people who work in Enterprise IT and DevOps folks too [18:33] :D [18:33] jcastro: Aside from release parties, jams etc its kind of sporadic in nature :) but I can set something up with a venue and gather at the very least the Portland folks which is 15-20 [18:33] :) [18:34] sure, I'll do whatever [18:34] as long as it doesn't conflict with the charm school or whatever we'll have planned for OSCON [18:34] okie doke well I will ping you when we get closer to setup a date/time :) [18:34] nah not at all [18:35] In fact California (LoCo) has folks coming up for OSCON too so we might have a real nice turnout for some juju talk :) [18:38] jcastro: any of this charm school happening in EU or just all US side? [18:40] US so far [18:40] I am going to investigate a webinar [18:40] :/ [18:40] no eu love :( [18:41] I don't have many people in .eu who could give charm schools [18:42] * popey points jcastro at Daviey ☺ [18:43] it's tricky, that's a bunch of work for someone who is already overloaded [18:43] heh :D [18:43] jcastro: you mean there isnobdy over this side of the world who could attend EU events and hold charm schools? [18:44] no charmers, no; I have juju coredevs (slammed), and other server team folks (also slammed). [19:00] jcastro, did you want a call? I know we only spoke recently [19:00] I am good for today [19:00] jcastro, cool [19:00] \m/ [19:02] jcastro: sorry, was AFK, but yes, anything we can help with ? [19:03] jcastro: I gotta learn me some charms [19:03] I need good juju [19:03] bodhi_zazen: nothing I just wanted to mention that newz is linking up with the guy who wants to do SSO for the forum, but newz just sent out the mail right now anyway [19:03] my arms ache [19:03] I am trying to get my ass in shape [19:03] jono: metal? [19:04] so started doing press ups [19:04] press ups suck [19:04] jcastro, I wish [19:04] my legs are crushed [19:04] jcastro, dude, that Chris Broderick thing was awesome [19:04] standing all day is not easy [19:04] I know right [19:04] there's this other video of him at NAMM which is like almost impossible to believe [19:05] jcastro, it makes me want to sell my guitar [19:05] anyone know if you can propose a merge to a personal branch (e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/~jonobacon/ubuntuaccomplishments/ubuntu-community) [19:05] could someone propose a merge into that branch? [19:06] I just started to teach myself Guitar jono [19:06] cprofitt, nice! [19:06] struggling with the C chord... and not even going to consider the F# [19:06] hehe [19:06] cprofitt, just learn a power chord [19:06] and then you will be set [19:06] lol [19:06] I got an acoustic... not sure they have power chords [19:06] thanks jcastro , I think we have a few who can help, probably need to open a team on LP [19:06] http://www.guitaralliance.com/guitar_lessons/power_chords/ [19:06] :-) [19:07] jono: the branch merge thing asks me for another branch [19:07] so I think yes? [19:07] thanks for the links... will study up [19:07] want me to propose something to see how it works? [19:07] cprofitt, if you end up like me it will take forever to get the basic chord shapes.. barring for a chord will be out of the question.. Then one day finger strength will take over and you'll be all set [19:07] jcastro, yeah, could you branch my branch, edit something, and then propose it [19:07] call it "test" or something [19:08] it was a elliptically progression [19:11] balloons: yep -- I am doing some exercises on the guitar as well to be able to work on chords and finger placement [19:11] I hope strength will get there before arthritis :-) [19:11] jcastro, any luck with it? [19:12] jono: incoming document shares.. [19:12] balloons, oooh [19:15] balloons, cool, will check them soon ready for our call [19:16] jono: ok I can't figure out how to propose my branch to yours [19:16] in your branch page, click the Propose For Merging link [19:16] I don't get one [19:16] because it forced me to do a +junk branch [19:16] bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~jorge/ubuntuaccomplisments/test-push/": : Project 'ubuntuaccomplisments' does not exist. [19:16] hmmm [19:17] that should work shouldn't it? If I push to ubuntuaccomplishments [19:17] no [19:17] oh hang on [19:17] ok, so do this: [19:17] bzr branch lp:~jonobacon/ubuntuaccomplishments/ubuntu-community [19:17] no change something in there, or touch a few files to add to it [19:18] then do: [19:18] bzr add [19:18] bzr commit [19:18] hmm maybe this isnt possible [19:19] jono: where can I find members of the ARB? [19:19] mhall119, app-review-board@lists.ubuntu.com [19:19] thanks [19:20] balloons, mind if we push our call back by 30 mins, I am going to pass out if I don't eat something soon [19:20] jono, lol :-) I'll just be typing along on this, so yea.. I'm open all afternoon [19:21] thanks balloons [19:21] jcastro, so when you have updated to branch can you: bzr push lp:~jorge/ubuntuaccomplishments/my-new-branch ? [19:22] yeah that doesn't work [19:22] hmmm [19:22] it gives me that error [19:22] which makes no sense to me [19:22] that's weird [19:22] it should work [19:22] but this has to be possible, it's like a fundamental part of DVCS, heh [19:22] let me test [19:24] jcastro, works for me, but I am not sur eif this is because I am ~jonobacon [19:27] it lets me push to +junk all day, but then of course I can't propose merging back [19:27] this question feels james_w-ish ... [19:28] jcastro, and you originally branched my ubuntu-community branch? [19:28] yep [19:29] and I just did a MP to the juju docs before you pinged me, so I am pretty sure I'm not totally messed up [19:31] weird [19:31] worse case scenario I will set up a new project [19:42] jcastro, aq got it working [19:42] thanks for trying though [19:46] o_O? [19:46] what did I mess up? [19:47] * jcastro sadtrombones [19:52] jcastro, not sure [19:52] ok, so lp is nice to people on birthdays [19:54] haha it seems so [19:54] I am glad that people can propose merges into it though [19:54] as it means all the different accomplishments collections can be part of the same project [19:54] with different owners [19:54] czajkowski, is the FOSSevents Calendar still being populated? Are you still involved in that? [20:00] balloons, all set? [20:00] yep yep [20:00] sending a hangout invite [20:02] mhall119, btw, I don't think we need download stats as so much ratings and reviews popularity [20:02] an app with 600 ratings is more interestingthan an app with 6 ratings [20:03] ok [20:03] but an app can get a lot of use without getting many (or any) ratings [20:07] jcastro, 'ubuntuaccomplisments' has a typo :-) [20:10] * jcastro corrects and hits enter. [20:10] jono: I should be fired. [20:11] jcastro, agreed [20:11] lol [20:22] jcastro: what state has the most canonical employees? [20:22] no clue [20:22] confusion [20:23] :) [20:23] +1 [20:23] sounds like something we should know [20:24]