[16:00] <ara> o/
[16:00] <cr3> #startmeeting Ubuntu Friendly
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 30 16:00:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is cr3. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:00] <cr3> Hi everyone, welcome to the weekly Ubuntu Friendly meeting
[16:00] <roadmr> hey!
[16:01] <cr3> hi ara and roadmr, anyone else around?
[16:01] <cr3> jedimike: hi there, I was just thinking of you, glad you could join us!
[16:01] <jedimike> hi!
[16:02] <cr3> telepathic ping
[16:03] <cr3> topics for today are:
[16:03] <cr3> * Linking to Ubuntu Friendly after running Checkbox: cr3
[16:03] <cr3> * AOB
[16:03] <cr3> Let's get started!
[16:03] <cr3> #topic Linking to Ubuntu Friendly after running Checkbox
[16:03] <jedimike> o/
[16:04] <cr3> jedimike: 'sup?
[16:04] <jedimike> i think we should link to UF after running checkbox, only if the UF requirements have been met (that is, no tests were manually deselected at the start of the test run) and if the requirements were not met, have a message saying how to participate in UF with future test runs
[16:05] <jedimike> otherwise we might get a lot of incomplete runs that don't make it, and have people wondering why
[16:05] <jedimike> ..
[16:05] <cr3> jedimike: would you mind if I postpone an answer to that until I give a little summary of the topic?
[16:06] <jedimike> cr3: not at all :)
[16:06] <jedimike> i may have jumped the gun a bit there I realise now ;)
[16:06] <cr3> This weekend, I sent a message to the ubuntu-friendly-squad mailing list about linking to the Ubuntu Friendly website on the last screen of running Checkbox.
[16:06] <cr3> In summary, the problem is that the current process is synchronous: http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/launchpad-results/before.png
[16:06] <cr3> The solution is that the process should be more asynchronous: http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/launchpad-results/after.png
[16:06] <cr3> First, this requires uploading submissions to the Results Tracker which would be a proxy to Launchpad for safe keeping.
[16:06] <cr3> Second, this also requires introducing the concept of a message queue to allow checkbox and Ubuntu Friendly to subscribe to message queues.
[16:06] <cr3> jedimike: I was prepared, so we should now address your concern.
[16:07] <cr3> jedimike: I agree with you but I have to admit that no solution comes to mind :(
[16:08] <cr3> jedimike: one solution that just came to mind might be if consumers of the message queue could someone inject their own queues to which other consumers like checkbox could subscribe
[16:09] <cr3> jedimike: I'm not partitularly familiar with message queues nor their best practices, so what would you say if I assign myself an action item to get back to you?
[16:09] <jedimike> cr3: sounds good, I only have minimal experience too
[16:09] <cr3> jedimike: if we solve the problem you raised, that would also solve the other problem I wanted to discuss today:
[16:09] <cr3> The only caveat is the slight delay between the time the user receives a message that the submission has been processed by the Results Tracker and the time Ubuntu Friendly has finished processing the results for that submission.
[16:10] <ara> o/
[16:11] <roadmr> o/
[16:11] <cr3> #action cr3 to explore message queues so that two consumers could commmunicate with each other, ie Ubuntu Friendly to dispatch a message to Checkbox so that it knows the submission is valid
[16:11] <meetingology> ACTION: cr3 to explore message queues so that two consumers could commmunicate with each other, ie Ubuntu Friendly to dispatch a message to Checkbox so that it knows the submission is valid
[16:11] <cr3> ara: the floor is yours
[16:11] <ara> for simplicity, maybe we should only provide the link back to UF to those that are not submitting anonymously, and, for those that provided their launchpad account,  just send them an email when the result made it to UF (with the link) or a message that it ddidn't make it to UF if it didn't contain enough results
[16:12] <ara> ..
[16:12] <cr3> ara: you mean a generic link to UF, not their submission, right?
[16:13] <ara> cr3, their submission
[16:13] <ara> (for those that provided their lp id)
[16:14] <cr3> ara: they just provide an email address so, whether it points to a valid launchpad account or not, you're saying we should email them as a best effort, right?
[16:14] <ara> cr3, from 12.04 they will provide their launchpad id or just submit anonymously
[16:16] <cr3> ara: I'm not sure I understand how we can provide a "link back to UF to those that are not submitting anonymously", are you saying using the message queue I proposed or something else?
[16:17] <ara> cr3, what I am trying to suggest is to avoid putting the information back into checkbox, just keep everything on the server side
[16:17] <cr3> ara: so just email, right?
[16:17] <ara> yes
[16:18] <cr3> ara: ok, that's clear. I'd like to see how others feel about this idea rather than a more elaborate message queue:
[16:19] <cr3> #vote Do you think we should email users instead of providing the feedback directly in Checkbox?
[16:19] <meetingology> Please vote on: Do you think we should email users instead of providing the feedback directly in Checkbox?
[16:19] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[16:19] <cr3> +1 (email seems like an easy first step, message queues can come later)
[16:19] <meetingology> +1 (email seems like an easy first step, message queues can come later) received from cr3
[16:19] <ara> +1
[16:19] <meetingology> +1 received from ara
[16:19] <roadmr> +1 and if the email bounces, we zap the submission :)
[16:19] <meetingology> +1 and if the email bounces, we zap the submission :) received from roadmr
[16:20] <jedimike> +! good solution while we don't have the queues
[16:20] <jedimike> +1 good solution while we don't have the queues
[16:20] <meetingology> +1 good solution while we don't have the queues received from jedimike
[16:20] <cr3> #endvote
[16:20] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Do you think we should email users instead of providing the feedback directly in Checkbox?
[16:20] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:20] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:20] <cr3> awesome, thanks folks!
[16:20] <cr3> roadmr: finally, your turn (I didn't forget)
[16:21] <roadmr> cr3: I'll just post as I had it prepared, but I think the vote rendered it moot
[16:21] <roadmr> Awesome, Ara proposes simplicity, my idea just complicates things more :) maybe checkbox can show a "processing..." progress dialog while UF finishes, and once UF sends the message saying it did, then checkbox pops up the (now functional) link. A safety timeout should be in place to keep users from staring at a checkbox progress bar longer than necessary :)
[16:21] <roadmr> and one question, what tool did you use for the diagrams? :)
[16:21] <roadmr> ..
[16:22] <cr3> roadmr: plotutils package, pic2plot command
[16:22] <cr3> roadmr: if you want the source, replace .png with .pic... and there's also a Makefile in the same directory
[16:22] <cr3> http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/launchpad-results/
[16:23] <cr3> roadmr: your idea of "processing..." only works if the whole process becomes asynchronous, the current synchronous cron process would not lend itself well to interaction with the user
[16:23] <cr3> roadmr: however, the idea of introducing the message queue is exactly to provide the user experience you propose: 1. "processing..."; 2. url to *their* hardware in Ubuntu Friendly.
[16:23] <cr3> anything else on this topic?
[16:25] <cr3> #topic Any Other Business
[16:25] <cr3> anyone have any friendliness on their mind for today?
[16:26] <balloons> quickly in summary, you guys agreed to do away with the launchpad processing queues right?
[16:26] <cr3> balloons: for the time being, seems like everyone would like to see an email dispatched
[16:26] <roadmr> o/
[16:26] <cr3> roadmr: go ahead
[16:26] <roadmr> I'd be kinda curious to see updated UF statistics now that we're deeper into Oneiric's 6 months of fame, are these available anywhere?
[16:27] <roadmr> oops :) if not, can they be generated, would this be of interest?
[16:27] <roadmr> ..
[16:28] <jedimike> o/
[16:28] <cr3> jedimike: your turn
[16:28] <jedimike> we can regenerate the stats we had before with the latest data
[16:29] <jedimike> there was a request for more detailed stats, but we need to do a bit more development to get them
[16:29] <cr3> jedimike: should I add an action item for you?
[16:29] <jedimike> but the simple ones (submissions, etc.) we can get
[16:29] <jedimike> cr3: yep
[16:29] <jedimike> ..
[16:29] <cr3> #action jedimike to regenerate the stats we had before with the latest data
[16:29] <meetingology> ACTION: jedimike to regenerate the stats we had before with the latest data
[16:29] <cr3> anything else?
[16:31] <cr3> seems like we've covered everything...
[16:31] <cr3> Thanks all for attending and for your comments and feedback! Have a great day!
[16:31] <cr3> #endmeeting
[16:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 30 16:31:42 2012 UTC.
[16:31] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-30-16.00.moin.txt
[16:31] <ara> thanks cr3!
[16:32] <roadmr> thanks!
[16:32] <cr3> it was fun :)
[16:33] <greyback> cr3: hey, I'm going to seem like a complete imbecile, but Checkbox is something I know nothing about really. It's a system for manual testing or no?
[16:34] <roadmr> greyback: it can do that, or it can work in automatic, headless mode
[16:34] <cr3> greyback: it's for integrating test suites but also supports manual tests indeed
[16:35] <greyback> roadmr: cr3: hmm, ok. I'm a unity-2d guy, and am interested in how these things can work together. We're  using a ruby-based automated test system, but I'm curious how other people do it, and how they handle manual tests
[16:36] <cr3> greyback: you work with agateau, right? him and didrocks have been working on checkbox-unity which simply checkbox with some unity specific tests
[16:37] <cr3> greyback: it is intended to enable the community to participate in testing which is where manual testing might be handy
[16:37] <greyback> cr3: Sure. I must check out checkbox-unity and see how well it applies to unity-2d (or not)
[16:37] <cr3> greyback: however, if you need a unit test suite, I'd recommend something that is most native to your project. somehow, I'm surprised you chose ruby, what was the motivation for this system?
[16:38] <roadmr> cr3:  because ruby rocks :P
[16:38] <greyback> cr3: we're using a test system called "Testability Driver" which allows inspection of Qt-based applications in great detail. It's scripted in Ruby, so we're using that
[16:38] <greyback> roadmr: never used it til now, some bits wreck my head, but it's nice :(
[16:38] <cr3> roadmr: sure, but forth also rocks and you don't see me using forth test suites :)
[16:39] <roadmr> cr3: heh :) yes, greyback's reply makes more sense than mine
[16:39] <roadmr> cr3: on the bright side, we could all be using java :( and we're not
[16:40] <greyback> roadmr: cr3: thanks for the info, I've something new to check out. If I can make manual-testers' lives easier, it'll be worth it
[16:40] <roadmr> cr3: seriously, maybe they chose ruby because it's good for domain-specific mini-languages (see rails, even puppet)
[16:40] <roadmr> they as in the creators of "testability driver"
[16:40] <cr3> greyback: if "Testability Driver" works for you, I'd suggest you keep using it. if you start needing multiple test frameworks together, then perhaps checkbox might be useful to run them together and unify the test results
[16:41] <cr3> roadmr: I'm all for using the right tool for the right job
[16:41] <greyback> cr3: it's worth looking into. In future there is hope to unify 3d & 2d's test=suites using cucumber/lettuce
[16:41] <roadmr> hm, vegetables
[16:41] <cr3> roadmr: is it just me or does ruby lend itself well to DSLs?
[16:41] <greyback> roadmr: I've no idea why they used Ruby. All the scripts are doing is parsing XML really
[16:42] <roadmr> cr3: not you, it does
[16:42] <roadmr> greyback: well I'd have to look at the tool to see how it's used
[16:42] <greyback> roadmr: sure. I'm no Ruby jockey, am just getting by :)
[16:42] <cr3> greyback: I've been reluctant to jump on the BDD bandwagon so I'll be very interested to hear if you finally adopt cucumber/lettuce
[16:43] <greyback> cr3: Originally I avoided it too, yet another layer of abstraction complicating things. But it might help close delta between 2d & 3d
[16:43] <greyback> It'll be investigated next cycle. Tis all I'm going to push for
[16:44] <cr3> greyback: indeed, I'm seeing BDD as a bridge between people like customer/client or manager/developer, but it might be interesting that it could maybe bridge between technologies or projects too
[16:44] <greyback> cr3: developer/designer was a suggestion too
[16:45] <greyback> cr3: agreed. Personally I'm sceptical, but it's worth a go
[16:45] <cr3> greyback: agreed, but between unity 2d/3d, that's very interesting! I'll have to remember to ping you next cycle about it :)
[16:45] <greyback> cr3: sure thing
[16:49] <cr3> cheerio folks, thanks again for the excellent meeting!
[18:03] <mdeslaur> \o
[18:03] <micahg> \o
[18:03] <tyhicks> hello
[18:04] <sbeattie> o/
[18:05] <jdstrand> hi!
[18:05] <jdstrand> sorry a tad late
[18:05] <jdstrand> let's get started
[18:05] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 30 18:05:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:05] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:05] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:05] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[18:06] <jdstrand> FeatureFreeze is coming in a little more than two weeks (February 16th). Please try to finish any non-bugfix work items that are tied to the release by this date. Please talk to mdeslaur (and optionally me)  soon if there are issues meeting this deadline. This is particularly true for essential and high priority items.
[18:07] <jdstrand> * Thanks
[18:07] <jdstrand> Jame Page (jamespage) provided oneiric debdiffs for Jenkins (LP: #914628)
[18:07] <jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
[18:07] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[18:07] <jamespage> jdstrand, np
[18:07] <jdstrand> :)
[18:07] <jdstrand> ACTION: jdstrand to make sure ubuntu-security gets QRT bug mail: DONE
[18:07] <jdstrand> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
[18:07] <jdstrand> sbeattie: iirc, you did that, right? ^
[18:08] <sbeattie> jdstrand: bah, no, sorry, will do this week
[18:08] <sbeattie> please keep the action around
[18:08] <jdstrand> sbeattie: hmm, I think there might not be any more, but yes, please do. thanks
[18:09] <jdstrand> [ACTION] sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
[18:09] <meetingology> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
[18:09] <sbeattie> well, nuclearbob set the status of those to opinion
[18:09] <sbeattie> which treats them as closed.
[18:09] <sbeattie> Anyway.
[18:09] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:09] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:09] <jdstrand> In addition to updates, etc, last week I focused a lot on improvements to UCT for CVE triage, particularly around triaging the output of the locate_cves.py script that mdeslaur wrote
[18:10] <jdstrand> I've handed off the remaining CVEs to tyhicks, and we will pass the list around til we are caught up
[18:10] <jdstrand> I'm on community this week
[18:10] <jdstrand> patch piloting today
[18:11] <jdstrand> have a lot of audits to do-- didn't do any last week
[18:11] <jdstrand> I would like to finish the essential work items I have that are tied to the release this week. hopefully won't take long
[18:11] <jdstrand> I'll do an update if I have time
[18:11] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:12] <mdeslaur> I'm working at testing a couple of embargoed updates that will be published tomorrow, and will pick some stuff off the CVE list to fix next
[18:12] <mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week, and that's it from me
[18:12] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[18:13] <sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week.
[18:13] <sbeattie> Working on finishing up the openssl and glibc updates I have on my plate
[18:13] <sbeattie> I'll also peek at my work items
[18:13] <sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
[18:14] <sbeattie> micahg: ?
[18:14] <micahg> I'm trying to get a new chromium in precise before alpha2 (unfortunately, just i386 and amd64 ATM), it's Mozilla release week, so we'll be updating all releases to Firefox 10
[18:15] <micahg> Rapid release migration was finished last week \o/
[18:15] <mdeslaur> \o/
[18:15] <micahg> at least for Firefox :), we're considering doing thunderbird during the 10 timeframe though as well
[18:15] <jdstrand> \o/
[18:15] <micahg> I think that's it for me
[18:15]  * jdstrand hugs micahg 
[18:16] <mdeslaur> micahg: did we get any major issues, or did everything go smoothly?
[18:16] <jdstrand> I know that was not the easiest thing, but hopefully now things will get better on the mozilla front
[18:16] <micahg> mdeslaur: mostly smoothly, we missed promoting a lot of stuff
[18:16] <micahg> and there's an ubufox upgrade bug from the stable PPA to the archive which I'll fix when we push out 10
[18:16] <mdeslaur> micahg: ok, minor things...good job!
[18:17] <tyhicks> I'm in the triage role this week
[18:17] <micahg> yeah, we caught the larger regressions in -proposed :)
[18:17] <jdstrand> micahg: nice job
[18:17] <jdstrand> anecdotally, lucid users I know had no issues
[18:18] <jdstrand> tyhicks: sorry, please proceed
[18:18] <tyhicks> no problem :)
[18:18] <tyhicks> I'm in the triage role
[18:18] <tyhicks> I'll be working on triaging the CVE's that jdstrand mentioned above
[18:19] <tyhicks> I didn't get to my update queue like I had planned last week, due to some work items stealing focus, but I completed those and I will focus on my update queue this week
[18:20] <tyhicks> That's it for me - jjohansen?
[18:20] <jdstrand> jjohansen is out today
[18:20] <jdstrand> I know he is working hard on work items and updates as they come up
[18:21] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:21] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:21] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:21] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ocrodjvu.html
[18:21] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libspring-security-2.0-java.html
[18:21] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hammerhead.html
[18:21] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ziproxy.html
[18:21] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smbind.html
[18:21] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:22] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:23] <kalimojo> hi
[18:24] <jdstrand> kalimojo: hi. this is the weekly ubuntu-security meeting. do you have something to discuss with us?
[18:24] <kalimojo> i was looking for help on image editing sw
[18:25] <jdstrand> kalimojo: you would probably want #ubuntu on Freenode
[18:25] <kalimojo> ok
[18:26] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks: thanks!
[18:26] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:26] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 30 18:26:10 2012 UTC.
[18:26] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-30-18.05.moin.txt
[18:26] <tyhicks> thanks, jdstrand
[18:26] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
[18:26] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[18:26] <kalimojo> quit
[18:59] <nessita> hello everyone
[19:00] <dobey> 1 minute still :)
[19:00]  * stgraber waves
[19:00] <dobey> hi stgraber
[19:01] <tumbleweed> hi
[19:01] <stgraber> micahg, tumbleweed, bdrung, Laney, cody-somerville: ping
[19:01] <micahg> o/
[19:01] <bdrung> o/
[19:01]  * tumbleweed was deep in code and almost forgot
[19:01] <stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting
[19:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 30 19:01:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:02] <cody-somerville> Hi
[19:02] <stgraber> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[19:02] <stgraber> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:03] <stgraber> so as you probably noticed, after discussion with the TB, I (with my TB hat on) updated the expiry for the DMB members terms based on what was sent by e-mail to the TB
[19:03] <stgraber> this should be a lot more consistent now than it was before and should make renewing the board easier
[19:03] <stgraber> cody-somerville: and news on your action or should we keep it there?
[19:03] <stgraber> (cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone)
[19:04] <cody-somerville> Nothing new to report. Forgot to get around to it last meeting.
[19:04]  * cody-somerville writes it at the top of his todo list in big letters.
[19:04] <stgraber> #topic Package Sets - Ubuntu One
[19:04] <stgraber> proposal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/UbuntuOnePackageSetApplication
[19:05] <cody-somerville> Is Rodney here?
[19:05] <dobey> hi
[19:06] <cody-somerville> dobey, Hi. Can you introduce yourself and your proposal?
[19:06] <stgraber> I'm failing to see rhythmbox-ubuntuone in the archive (under either name listed on the wiki)
[19:07] <dobey> hi, i'm rodney dawes, on the ubuntu one team, and have been uploading several ubuntu one packages. we want to hae a package set to make it easier to manage the packages we have in ubuntu.
[19:07] <dobey> stgraber: it was dropped in oneiric, and we will have a release of it tomorrow, which should be going back into precise as rhythmbox-ubuntuone
[19:08] <stgraber> dobey: ok, for the record we can't give access to non-existing source packages, so if the package set is approved, you'll have to send an e-mail to devel-permissions asking for rhythmbox-ubuntuone to be added once it's in the archive (no extra meeting needed for that kind of change though)
[19:08] <dobey> stgraber: ok, that is fine.
[19:09] <bdrung> should be magicicada in the package set?
[19:09] <nessita> bdrung, no, thank you, magicicada is a non official project
[19:09] <dobey> bdrung: no, it's not an official ubuntu one package, and is a side project for a couple of the developers
[19:10] <bdrung> k
[19:10] <micahg> dobey: that doesn't technically matter whether it's official or not if it should be part of the packageset, but rather if U1 devs might need to make changes to it and are trusted to do so
[19:11] <dobey> micahg: sure. if nessita wants it added to the package set then we can add it, i suppose. but i'll leave that up to her as it's her project.
[19:11] <bdrung> do we have a description of the proposed package set?
[19:11] <nessita> micahg, thanks for the clarification. The devs involved in magicicada would like not to be part of that package set
[19:12] <dobey> bdrung: beyond what is in the proposal?
[19:12] <stgraber> bdrung: not that I can find (either on the wiki or mailing-list)
[19:13] <micahg> dobey: this is the criteria for which we can add new packages based on e-mails to devel-permissions
[19:13] <stgraber> dobey: when creating a package set we now require a description of the package set that will be used as criteria for inclusion of additional packages
[19:13] <stgraber> dobey: anything matching that description will be added to the package set without the need for a meeting
[19:13] <dobey> stgraber: ah. i wasn't able to find any formal documentation on the wiki on applying for a package set. i just found an old application for bzr, and used it as a template. :-/
[19:14] <nessita> proposed description: "The package set includes those packages that run in the user ubuntu desktop, and is part of the Ubuntu One project (http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone)"
[19:15] <tumbleweed> dobey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#FormingDelegate
[19:15] <dobey> so, let's say "Packages for which Ubuntu One developers will generally need to have upload privileges for, assuming they have been approved by the DMB."
[19:15] <micahg> nessita: it's more a criteria for packages rather than a description
[19:16] <stgraber> micahg: though "Packages that are part of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone and in the Ubuntu archive" sounds like it'd match and is easy enough to check
[19:17] <dobey> tumbleweed: ah, confusion. i was looking at that before, and micahg was saying "what you need is a package set, not a delegated team" and when i searched for "package set" on the wiki, i got no useful results beyond the old bzr application :-/
[19:17] <micahg> meh, some of those seem iffy, like evo-couchdb
[19:18] <dobey> tumbleweed: perhaps we could clarify that messaging somewhat :)
[19:18] <nessita> micahg, "The package X should be part of the package set if is part of the Ubuntu One project and runs in the ubuntu desktop"?
[19:19] <bdrung> suggestion: "Packages from subprojects of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone that are in the Ubuntu archive"
[19:19] <dobey> micahg: i'd say that's only iffy because we will stop supporting it, and probably won't be uploading it anyway. though in the future we'll probably have an evolution-u1db or something to replace it :)
[19:19] <stgraber> nessita: "runs in the ubuntu desktop" doesn't really mean anything, at least not anything we can check. Does run mean doesn't crash, does it mean is seeded in a supported seed, does it mean, it's on a media, ...
[19:19] <stgraber> bdrung: +1
[19:19] <dobey> bdrung: wfm.
[19:19] <micahg> well, I guess if they can break some parts of the desktop, what's a few more :P
[19:20] <micahg> and I guess they are technically upstream for it
[19:20] <nessita> stgraber, right, I was referring to "live" in the ubuntu archive, like bdrung says
[19:21] <stgraber> nessita: ok, that sounds good and is easy to check (as if the package wasn't we couldn't grant you upload rights to it anyway ;))
[19:21] <nessita> :-)
[19:21] <bdrung> we probably could reduce the criteria to "Packages from subprojects of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone"
[19:21] <bdrung> the package needs to be in the ubuntu archive anyway
[19:21] <stgraber> bdrung: indeed
[19:21] <stgraber> are we ready to vote?
[19:21] <dobey> sure
[19:23] <bdrung> stgraber: with the proposed criteria?
[19:23] <stgraber> bdrung: yes, package list that's on the wiki minus rhythmbox-ubuntuone and with "Packages from subprojects of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone" as criteria
[19:23] <bdrung> i am ready
[19:24] <stgraber> micahg, tumbleweed, Laney, cody-somerville: ?
[19:24]  * micahg too
[19:24] <tumbleweed> sure
[19:24] <stgraber> #vote Creation of an UbuntuOne package set with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/UbuntuOnePackageSetApplication as initial list (minus rhythmbox-ubuntuone) and "Packages from subprojects of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone" as criteria
[19:24] <meetingology> Please vote on: Creation of an UbuntuOne package set with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/UbuntuOnePackageSetApplication as initial list (minus rhythmbox-ubuntuone) and "Packages from subprojects of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone" as criteria
[19:24] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:25] <bdrung> +1
[19:25] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:25] <micahg> +1
[19:25] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[19:25] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:25] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:25] <stgraber> +1
[19:25] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:25] <cody-somerville> +1
[19:25] <meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
[19:25] <cody-somerville> (for packages listed on wiki)
[19:25] <stgraber> #endvote
[19:25] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Creation of an UbuntuOne package set with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/UbuntuOnePackageSetApplication as initial list (minus rhythmbox-ubuntuone) and "Packages from subprojects of http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone" as criteria
[19:25] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:25] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:25] <stgraber> ok, I'll create the package set post meeting
[19:25] <nessita> nice!
[19:25] <dobey> yay, thanks guys :)
[19:25] <Laney> yeeps, off by one error
[19:25] <stgraber> #action stgraber to create the UbuntuOne package set
[19:25] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to create the UbuntuOne package set
[19:26] <Laney> which is impressive when you are in gmt
[19:26] <stgraber> Laney: hey there :)
[19:26] <stgraber> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications - Natalia Bidart
[19:27] <stgraber> (I guess we'll need to vote on dobey too as it doesn't make much sense to keep him on PPU now that we have the package set)
[19:27]  * nessita is Natalia Bidart
[19:27] <stgraber> nessita: can you quickly introduce yourself?
[19:27] <nessita> sure!
[19:28] <nessita> hello, I'm natalia, I'm the teach lead of the Ubuntu One desktop+ team. I've been involved with most of the desktop application for Ubuntu One since 2010
[19:28]  * stgraber notes we probably should convert nessita's PPU request to UbuntuOne packageset + PPU to magicicada 
[19:28]  * bdrung nods
[19:28] <dobey> stgraber: indeed
[19:29] <cody-somerville> nessita, How involved with the actual packaging of the UbuntuOne packages are you?
[19:30] <nessita> I've been packaging Ubuntu One packages since 2010, I started with the ubuntu-sso-client and then I included to my packaging list most of the rest of the project
[19:30] <nessita> I'm also familiar with the SRU process, and with all the release schedule
[19:30] <cody-somerville> nessita, Can you give an example of where you fixed a packaging bug?
[19:31] <nessita> I'm still have some things to learn regarding packaging in general, but I'm always eager to read the documentation and to learn from reviews and advices
[19:31] <nessita> cody-somerville, you mean proposing a patch for the package or as a upstream dev?
[19:32] <stgraber> nessita: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce and read it daily (when doing Ubuntu stuff)?
[19:32] <cody-somerville> nessita, An example of fixing a bug with the packaging of the software vs. fixing a bug in the upstream software.
[19:32] <nessita> stgraber, yes, I am
[19:32] <dobey> cody-somerville: i suppose fixing [needspackaging] bugs counts for that?
[19:33]  * micahg would think not
[19:34] <nessita> cody-somerville, so, I have made some packaging fixes with, for example, logilab-common to upload to our Ubuntu One nightlies ppa (I can provide the link to that, let me find it)
[19:35] <nessita> cody-somerville, and this https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/precise/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-2.99.2 the latest package proposal I submitted with upstream fixes in it
[19:35] <dobey> nessita: the logilab-common is a code fix, not a packaging fix
[19:35] <nessita> dobey, I undertood that a packaging fix will be such where a patch is provied to apply to the source :-)
[19:36] <dobey> nessita: packaging being a bug in debian/rules or copyright, or typo in the description, or dependencies and such in the control file
[19:36] <cody-somerville> nessita, No. That is different. A packaging fix is changes to the debian packaging files to fix an issue not with the software but with the packaging of it.
[19:37] <dobey> nessita: the difference between packaging a fix, and fixing the packaging itself :)
[19:37] <nessita> dobey, cody-somerville, right. I don't think I have done a packaging-only fix
[19:37] <nessita> most of my branches were for new upstream releases, or patch added to apply to the upstream code
[19:37] <cody-somerville> nessita, How often do you make changes to files under debian/ ? How familiar are you with those files?
[19:38] <nessita> I've of course modified debian/ files in those, but I have not submitted a branch with only changes to debian/
[19:38] <nessita> cody-somerville, I make changes every time I propose a packaging branch, I usually edit the changelog and very often update dependencies in the control file
[19:39] <bdrung> nessita: are there any plans to get the ubuntuone stack to Debian or to work with Debian developers to get it into Debian?
[19:39] <dobey> cody-somerville: we have a hard release schedule for ubuntu one this cycle, so at a minimum of every 2 weeks, i would say nessita and i both, make changes under debian/ in the u1 packages.
[19:40] <nessita> cody-somerville, I'm familiar with the files in debian/, and I usually check the debian documentation when I have a particular doubt, and if needed, I also check with dobey or someone more experienced than me in that regard
[19:40] <micahg> I think cody-somerville is trying to highlight the difference between being an upstream dev and a distro dev
[19:40] <nessita> bdrung, well, atm there are no plans to getting Ubuntu One into debian
[19:41] <bdrung> nessita: are there any reasons, why?
[19:42] <nessita> bdrung, well, mostly business desicions, but I'm confiming with my manager for specifics. Is worth noting that we help as much as we can to people that wants to contribute doing that (orpackaging to another distro as well)
[19:43] <bdrung> nessita: the overhead to upload a package to debian and sync it to ubuntu isn't that big.
[19:44] <dobey> bdrung: configglue is already in debian. i hope to get dirspec in there in the future as well. as for the rest of ubuntuone, it might only be useful for us to have stuff in sid/experimental, but i don't think we are opposed to getting them there.
[19:44] <cody-somerville> nessita, In what scenario might you need to bump the soname of the libubuntuone package?
[19:45] <nessita> cody-somerville, I'm not 100% sure (my work mainly involves python packaging, but is a good question), but makes sense doing so when there is an API-ABI breakage
[19:46] <bdrung> dobey: sid/experimental are the primary upload targets in Debian
[19:47] <cody-somerville> nessita, Who would you ask if you were unsure?
[19:47] <nessita> cody-somerville, dobey for sure :-)
[19:47] <nessita> cody-somerville, he's our packaging master, and a gnome dev
[19:48] <nessita> he thought me a lot of the things i know about packaging, and he also explains to me some sutil differences between one way or another to do things
[19:48] <stgraber> any other question for nessita or are we ready to vote (for PPU to magicicada and package set upload for UbuntuOne)? (12 minutes left and we still have dobey and cyphermox on the agenda)
[19:49] <bdrung> i am ready
[19:49] <cody-somerville> I'm ready.
[19:49] <stgraber> #vote nessita for PPU to magicicada and package set upload for UbuntuOne
[19:49] <meetingology> Please vote on: nessita for PPU to magicicada and package set upload for UbuntuOne
[19:49] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:50] <bdrung> +1
[19:50] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:50] <stgraber> +1
[19:50] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:51] <cody-somerville> +1 - please take some time to read the Debian Library Packaging guide plus seek assistance from dobey if you intend to touch libubuntuone.
[19:51] <meetingology> +1 - please take some time to read the Debian Library Packaging guide plus seek assistance from dobey if you intend to touch libubuntuone. received from cody-somerville
[19:51] <tumbleweed> +1 [ and please feel free to ask for help in #ubuntu-motu / -devel with tricky packaging issues, such as sonames ]
[19:51] <meetingology> +1 [ and please feel free to ask for help in #ubuntu-motu / -devel with tricky packaging issues, such as sonames ] received from tumbleweed
[19:51] <stgraber> micahg, Laney: ?
[19:51] <micahg> +1 same as comment as cody-somerville and tumbleweed
[19:51] <meetingology> +1 same as comment as cody-somerville and tumbleweed received from micahg
[19:51] <nessita> ack to all comments, and will do
[19:51] <Laney> +1 also the release team for freeze guidance
[19:51] <meetingology> +1 also the release team for freeze guidance received from Laney
[19:52] <stgraber> #endvote
[19:52] <meetingology> Voting ended on: nessita for PPU to magicicada and package set upload for UbuntuOne
[19:52] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:52] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:52] <tumbleweed> phew, we have an uploader for the packageset
[19:52] <stgraber> #action stgraber to grant PPU to magicicada to nessita
[19:52] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to grant PPU to magicicada to nessita
[19:52] <stgraber> micahg: can you make sure to add nessita when you create the team?
[19:52] <dobey> Laney: was that comment based on past history re: u1 and freezes?
[19:52] <micahg> stgraber: yes
[19:52] <stgraber> micahg: thanks
[19:52] <nessita> thanks!
[19:52] <Laney> no not really, just in general
[19:52] <stgraber> #action micahg to add nessita to the ubuntu one upload team
[19:52] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to add nessita to the ubuntu one upload team
[19:53] <stgraber> #topic Upload rights of dobey to the UbuntuOne package set
[19:53] <stgraber> == All rights for dobey ==
[19:53] <stgraber> Archive Upload Rights for dobey: archive 'primary', source package 'icontool'
[19:53] <stgraber> Archive Upload Rights for dobey: archive 'primary', source package 'ubuntuone-storage-protocol'
[19:53] <stgraber> Archive Upload Rights for dobey: archive 'primary', source package 'ubuntuone-client'
[19:54] <stgraber> so I guess the proposal is to drop these two PPU to ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client, replacing them with package set upload right to UbuntuOne
[19:54] <stgraber> any question?
[19:54] <cody-somerville> dobey, Please confirm.
[19:55] <dobey> yes, that's right
[19:55] <cody-somerville> Ready to vote.
[19:56]  * bdrung too.
[19:57] <stgraber> #vote Give dobey upload rights to the UbuntuOne package set (and remove current overlapping PPU)
[19:57] <meetingology> Please vote on: Give dobey upload rights to the UbuntuOne package set (and remove current overlapping PPU)
[19:57] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:57] <Laney> +1
[19:57] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[19:57] <stgraber> +1
[19:57] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:57] <cody-somerville> +1
[19:57] <meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
[19:57] <bdrung> +1
[19:57] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:57] <micahg> +1
[19:57] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[19:58] <stgraber> tumbleweed: ?
[19:58] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:58] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:58] <stgraber> #endvote
[19:58] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Give dobey upload rights to the UbuntuOne package set (and remove current overlapping PPU)
[19:58] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:58] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:58] <stgraber> #action stgraber to update dobey's PPU once he's been added to the ubuntuone uploader team
[19:58] <meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to update dobey's PPU once he's been added to the ubuntuone uploader team
[19:59] <stgraber> ok, we're sadly running out of time for the meeting and quite a few members have pre-alpha2 freeze things to do so I doubt we can easily extend the meeting
[19:59] <stgraber> cyphermox: can you attend our meeting in two weeks for your coredev application? (poke me if you need sponsoring until then)
[19:59] <micahg> dobey: nessita: I would also encourage you if there's another SONAME bump for libubuntuone to try to shepherd the reverse-deps through the other teams that can upload the packages
[20:00] <cyphermox> sure, I can attend in two weeks
[20:00] <cody-somerville> cyphermox, Also, removing your application, please come next meeting with more endorsements! No reason you can't get them. :)
[20:00] <cody-somerville> err
[20:00] <cody-somerville> s/removing/regarding/
[20:00] <cyphermox> stgraber:  ^^ ;)
[20:00] <micahg> cody-somerville: +1
[20:00] <stgraber> cyphermox: I know ;) I just mentioned it on the DMB private channel, I'll have one added on your wiki page by our next meeting  ;)
[20:01] <stgraber> #topic Chair for next meeting
[20:01] <stgraber> so who's turn is it?
[20:01]  * tumbleweed suspects probably me
[20:01] <stgraber> fine :)
[20:02] <stgraber> #action tumbleweed to chair the next DMB meeting
[20:02] <meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to chair the next DMB meeting
[20:02]  * stgraber was trying to find some pattern but couldn't find any obvious one :)
[20:02] <tumbleweed> there was one, but we broke it
[20:02] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[20:02] <micahg> stgraber: alphabetical
[20:02] <Laney> by nick
[20:02] <tumbleweed> yeah, time to kick the election off
[20:02] <Laney> wfm™
[20:02] <stgraber> micahg: right, that was what I was looking for but couldn't find it ;)
[20:02] <tumbleweed> Laney: it was origionally by name
[20:03] <Laney> ah well
[20:03] <nessita1> micahg: I'm having some nets issues, but I know you said something to me and dobey. Would you please repeat?
[20:03] <stgraber> micahg: let's say it's alphabetical but by IRC nickname, then we're almost right :)
[20:03] <tumbleweed> we have two applicants, I'll start the election this evening
[20:03] <micahg> nessita: I would also encourage you if there's another SONAME bump for libubuntuone to try to shepherd the reverse-deps through the other teams that can upload the packages
[20:03] <tumbleweed> s/applicants/nominees/
[20:03] <stgraber> tumbleweed: rocks
[20:03] <dobey> thanks all!
[20:03] <nessita1> micahg: ack
[20:04] <nessita1> thanks everyone
[20:04] <tumbleweed> ajmitch said something about preparing a platform, haven't heard from porthose
[20:04] <ajmitch> right, I'm just at work about to go into a quick meeting, will write something after that
[20:05] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[20:05] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan 30 20:05:31 2012 UTC.
[20:05] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-30-19.01.moin.txt
[20:05] <stgraber> almost on time! :)