=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [00:09] oh, i have broken packages [00:58] hello === ant__ is now known as Ubunterrific [02:07] bugs bugs bugs [02:08] ali1234, in 12.04? [02:08] yes [02:09] it's not bad for 3 months out though [02:10] only three bugs filed so far in the 5 hours i've been using it :) [02:10] and nothing has randomly crashed while i wasn't even doing anything yet [02:11] in comparison, i filed 4 bugs against 11.10 on monday [02:12] er... thursday [02:12] I'll probably try it after release [02:12] :) [02:13] oh cool affecting bugs is now an official part of the launchpad UI [02:13] i wonder if it is available in the API yet [02:15] hey guys [02:15] do any of you help in terms of contributing to ubuntu? [02:16] if you count bug reporting and triage [02:16] then yes [02:16] because I want to get more involved [02:17] and the occaissional very obvious patch [02:17] but I don't have much technical knowledge [02:17] when I triage stuff, all I'm looking for is the amount of detail in the bug reports [02:18] so yeah, I'm a newbie :) [02:18] my bug reports are getting shorter and shorter [02:19] oh dear [02:19] this is one of the ones i just made: http://pastebin.com/6Bim3QtB [02:19] i would link it, but it is private [02:19] looks good enough [02:19] (yes, it contains full backtrace from apport) [02:20] that's all you need :D [02:20] really, there is nothing else to say :) [02:20] so if you're doing triage you can't really be a newbie [02:20] what are you looking to move in to? [02:20] well my background is.. [02:21] am I even allowed to say that here? [02:21] i dunno? [02:21] is it illegal? [02:21] if not then you are probably ok [02:21] should be ok [02:22] I'm a 3rd year software eng. student [02:22] now I'm desperately craving IT experience [02:22] o_O [02:22] so I'm doing everything I can this year [02:22] why wouldn't you be allowed to say that? [02:22] anyway [02:22] anyway [02:23] so yeah, I need to just do everything and anything [02:23] so you might like to work on bite-size bugs, if you can find any [02:23] stuff like memory leaks and segfaults [02:24] sounds good [02:24] I want to start working towards ubuntu membership [02:24] the skills you need for this are: knowledge of GDB and debugging symbols, and knowledge of valgrind [02:24] i don't know anything about ubuntu membership, i haven't even signed the CoC [02:24] may I know about your background ali? [02:25] I don't even know what GDB and debugging symbols are [02:25] or even valgrind [02:25] i'm a CS graduate, currently self-employed [02:25] that sounds awesome [02:25] you must know what a debugger is? [02:25] entrepreneurial spirit? [02:25] not really, just can't get a proper job [02:26] oh really? I must try even harder then.. [02:26] all I know about debugging is [02:26] when you set breakpoints using an IDE [02:26] and do stepping forwards/backwards [02:28] right [02:28] that's what GDB does [02:28] it's the gnu debugger [02:28] I see, I'm not much of a programmer [02:29] what is software engineering anyhow? [02:29] basically CS with less theory [02:29] it seems [02:29] doesn't that mean more programming? [02:29] some courses cover up the internals of the tools :/ [02:30] yes it does, but let's say i'm not in a great uni [02:30] plus the usual student procrastination [02:30] my knowledge goes as far as basic OOP [02:31] learn C [02:31] (not C++) [02:32] I'm not sure if i'm a coder really [02:32] to be honest [02:32] more specifically, learn what is bad about C [02:33] I guess it depends what sort of things you are wanting to do? :) [02:33] things like buffer overflows and segmentation faults: they all come back to C's use of pointers [02:33] new-fangled languages try to hide that from you [02:34] ah I heard about those buffer overflows [02:34] but in the end it's how computers work so all they really do is move the problem [02:34] hamitron, I guess that's the main problem, I need to experience a range of different real world IT work [02:34] there is IT and there is IT [02:34] so many different areas [02:34] :/ [02:35] it would be good if you can share IT stories of your own [02:35] if you don't want to do programming, you could always become a community "flag-waver" [02:35] sorry to change this channel topic to careers [02:35] but that's not really something that interests me [02:35] haha flag waver [02:35] sounds like you've been taught to churn out applications using languages for faster development [02:36] you mean advertise Ubuntu? [02:36] well, sort of [02:36] i dunno what those community people do :) [02:36] there's other stuff I checked out [02:37] like documentation, testing etc. [02:38] there is documentation? [02:38] yeah basically all the wiki stuff [02:38] there's a WIKI?? [02:39] I'm sure you know? [02:39] next you'll be telling me we have forums [02:39] oh please [02:39] adult rated too? ;) [02:39] you don't know about forums? [02:39] askubuntu.com is pretty good [02:39] i prefer it to forums. a lot. [02:41] never been on askubuntu [02:41] but is the job market very tough at the moment? [02:41] or did you not manage to get IT experience during your studies? [02:43] it's hard to say [02:43] i don't have anything to compare it with [02:44] everything is tough I'm finding [02:44] i hear a lot of companies are hiring at the moment [02:44] but then they are always hiring [02:45] i've no idea how many people are chasing those jobs [02:45] I am looking at graduate schemes at the moment [02:45] but have not applied anywhere yet [02:45] except IBM, actually [07:49] morning all [07:55] morning [07:55] \o [07:56] Morning [07:57] moaning [08:14] Morning o/ [08:15] morning [08:20] qMorning all [08:52] * smittix want's a tux droid [09:12] Morning all [09:14] \o [09:26] morning [09:28] * oimon is in quite a good mood considering it's monday [09:30] Didn't yOu hear oimon? It's Happy Monday today! [09:31] i felt it in my bones [09:31] I'm going to see if I can get through this snow [09:36] Good morning all! [09:37] hello all [09:39] hey guys , anybody coming to fossdem next weekend ? [09:41] where is it ? [09:41] Brussels [09:41] agh... lolz nope ... if in the uk then yes but doh... would have gone [09:44] Anyone know if Debian/Ubuntu are going to do the /usr merge as Fedora is? http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge [09:46] TheOpenSourcerer: maybe after fedora do it [09:47] and after 12.04! [09:47] popey: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0OTY [09:47] yup, not done yet though [09:48] what is usr short for? [09:48] nice to see fedora doing vaguely controversial stuff, not just us [09:48] TY popey - I'm not convinced myself, I kind of liked the separation but do get the rationale for the merging. [09:48] fedora is where all of lennart's code lands [09:48] allegedly unix system resources [09:49] so fedora is where all the crazy stuff lands first [09:49] network-manager, pulseaudio, systemd [09:49] fedora is rhel beta [09:49] Neoti_Laptop: What's wrong with Brussels? [09:49] its not Lennarts proposal [09:50] he's just championing it [09:50] popey: interesting, thanks. I always thought it was "user" with an AS/400 like dropping of the vowels which I considered a bit odd because it is nothing to do with user stuff [09:53] AlanBell: Me too, but FHS just calls it a secondary heirarchy: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html [09:54] The main diff was/is that /bin /sbin should be there always from boot. whereas /usr can be mounted from a different filesystem subsequently. [09:55] jpds nothing wrong just im in the uk and can not get to brussels etc... doh! [10:01] Good morning peoples [10:04] morning all [10:10] i don't think my browser rendered this page correctly: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/fromphone/5702799951558140866 [10:11] oimon, that link just takes me to my own photos ;) [10:11] Was about to say :) [10:12] oh [10:15] http://ubuntuone.com/0nu7uVuv3IIl1Si7jcPcjz [10:16] Hmm a tad bit of curruption there :) [10:18] That's pretty! [10:19] in an unuseful way [10:22] morning UGT [10:30] feeling like switching back to firefox from chrome, its missing all those little things [10:31] http://www.lexaloffle.com/voxatron.php [10:31] love the look of that game [10:31] i feel like i am required to point this out ;) http://www.3ddotgameheroes.com/ [10:33] Myrtti: UGT? ubuntu's got talent? [10:33] oooo [10:33] looks like tilt-shift [10:34] oimon: Universal Greeting Time [10:36] oh, it was in a humble bundle [10:36] not one I bought ☹ [10:37] which one? i thought i got all the humble bundles [10:38] oh was a special one dedicated to that game, weird [10:38] i'm done with buying games before they come out ;) [10:38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humble_Indie_Bundle#Humble_Voxatron_Debut [10:44] i'm done with buying indie bundles and never playing the games [10:45] just downloading winscp on a windows laptop. 500k downloads of the sponsored installer versus 500k downloads of the normal installer. hmmm [10:45] the definition of above average and below average tech intelligence [10:46] Ooo, update to Spotify. Wonder if it gives the full Windows experience now [10:47] No :( [10:47] Now includes 'Top Lists' [10:47] does it include "more ads"? [10:48] that's why i moved to grooveshark [10:48] I pay the monthly tax, so shouldn't see ads [10:48] the audio ads became extremely common [10:48] every 2 songs i think [10:48] MartijnVdS: are you there ? [10:52] good morning everyone, [10:53] Hi brobostigon [10:54] hi bigcalm [10:56] Scratching my head here. I've been using google calendar with thunderbird for some time. Now I have a need to add a 2nd google account to the calendar yet it won't show it. Just has a yellow warning triangle and the message "The calendar foo.bar is momentarily not available". This is despite setting it up in the same way as the 1st one [10:56] Would be nice to have more information behind the warning [10:58] bigcalm: you mean lightning addon? [10:58] Yes [10:58] maybe it is momentarily not available :) [11:00] I just made it work via this method: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=247486#c41 [11:00] Which is very silly [11:00] Mozilla bug 247486 in Provider: ICS/WebDAV "can't load several calendars with different passwords on same server/realm" [Major,Resolved: fixed] [11:00] czajkowski: prod, happy monday [11:01] morning all [11:01] davmor2: hello you [11:01] Hi davmor2 [11:02] davmor2: had a great weekened recovering from http://pix.ie/czajkowski/album/432520 [11:02] morning davmor2 [11:03] morning bigcalm MooDoo, czajkowski yes swanning off to Gay Paris :) [11:04] new system is performing nicely considering [11:04] considering you put it together? ;) [11:12] Howdy All [11:12] any London meetups planned anytime soon? [11:13] gord: I'm a certified IT Technician I'll have you know, No I meant in comparison to my old one :) [11:18] davmor2, that means nothing, you have a keyboard designed by the mad hatter. you can not be trusted [11:19] :D [11:20] gord: there is nothing wrong with my keyboard layout that a few minutes using it wouldn't solve :P only weirdo wusses would say other wise :P [11:38] http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2722444/size/800 highbrow cultural visit I see [11:38] Fnar fnar [11:39] it is OK, it is art [11:39] I see! [11:42] bigcalm, AlanBell: Which artist thought it would be fun to plaster a pair of ear muffs and call it art? [11:43] bigcalm: With regards to your Lightning, multiple calendar thing, the other way is to share those calendars from a different google account "through" the other google account so you have edit rights etc. [11:44] TheOpenSourcerer: ug, I guess that's a way around it. Not one I like the thought of though [11:44] That's how I do it right now. I share some calendars from my Google Apps account through my gmail account. [11:44] TheOpenSourcerer: I fell out with lightning after being without the Google Calendar plugin for months due to upgrades in versions to thunderbird [11:45] I've never used the Google calendar plugin - just use CalDAV. [11:45] Same here [11:45] I even wrote about it as I have a terrible memory: http://www.myrant.net/2011/11/18/google-calendar-in-mozilla-thunderbird-on-ubuntu-11-10/ [11:47] The 'fix' of using two different URLs is good enough for me. I only have 2 calendars - work & personal. If I need more from other accounts, I guess I could always share though one or the other [11:50] I shall update the page! [11:57] I need to get writing up a guide for using the templates folder. [11:58] AlanBell: aye was in the old roman section === nothingspecial is now known as angela-android === aquarius_ is now known as aquarius [12:27] "Ubuntu 12.04 will be the first Ubuntu release to be offering a 64 bit ISO as the default download. " interesting [12:28] Good [12:29] It needs to stop pandering to the old hardware market and move forwards. Otherwise what progress will there be? [12:30] i can see this causing problems, with people who dont know the difference between 32 and 64bit. and getting the standard, and it failing. and then them complaining. [12:30] brobostigon: 64-bit has been supported on CPUs for a long time now [12:31] except Atoms [12:32] MartijnVdS: true point, yes, however i still see certain issues, related. however yes, you have a good point, about machines from the last few years, but certainly older machines, i see issues. [12:32] brobostigon: I'm sure they'll revert if there are too many complaints [12:33] MartijnVdS: yes, i agree, [12:33] Also, if they explain it right, it shouldn't become a huge problem [12:33] i installed 32bit 10.04 on my core2duo in 2010 because adobe were still fannying around with 64bit versions of their stuff [12:33] I find it interesting that we assume people buying windows 7 will know the difference between the two architectures, but don't credit linux users with the same knowledge. I never thought I'd see that day [12:33] shauno: win7 users usually buy OEM [12:34] I know plenty that have bought it. and ubuntu is aiming for oem markets to satisfy those that don't need to know the difference too [12:34] matlab have decided they only support 64-bit versions for mac. however we have quite a few 32bit users [12:35] most people will agree it's a good move to go 64-bit by default now [12:35] oimon: Time for 128-bit CPUs! :) [12:35] at worst, it's just another iso to download, or carry in your pocket [12:36] I think it should have been done a long time ago. I think so far, it's mostly been nervousness over various non-free binaries (as you point out with adobe), rather than any real technical consideration [12:36] 64-bit even has some benefits [12:36] >4G RAM support isn't as hacky [12:37] address space randomization has more space to randomize in [12:37] what year did 64-bit become popular on laptops and PCs? [12:37] i will still put 32bit on my live usb, as if i put 64bit onto it, and i still see quite a few 32bit machines out there, i would be stuffed. [12:37] (so smaller chance of exploits still working) [12:37] oimon: My first machine at my current job was my first 64-bit machine [12:37] oimon: late 2005 [12:37] consumer 64-bit is a decade old [12:37] directhex: Intel/AMD or Alpha? :) [12:38] which intel chips? [12:38] xeon? [12:38] MartijnVdS, how many consumers ran alpha? [12:38] directhex: good point [12:38] my last 3 laptops have been c2d or later. 2006 onwards. [12:38] athlon 64 shipped in 2003 [12:38] Apple's G5 (PPC970) as well [12:39] rule of thumb may be, if it's too slow to run unity, is probably 32bit [12:39] pentium 4f shipped in 2005 [12:39] directhex: I had a 4D with 64-bit, late '05 [12:39] hum, question: how does http://www.royalmail.com/postcode-finder/ look like to you? I can't see anything underneath the input box for building number [12:39] i have some mac mini's here that won't run 64-bit lion [12:40] oimon, core 1 solo? or not enough ram? [12:40] directhex: not sure, i asked my colleague to upgrade the machine, he said, not possible [12:40] possibly firmware [12:40] iirc the very first generation of intel mac mini were core solo / core duo (not core2), so didn't offer 64bit [12:41] that may be it [12:41] (and lion doesn't support ppc, so the generations previous don't work either, but that's kinda outside the scope of this :) [12:41] they were intel ones [12:41] oimon, mac mini became 64-bit in mid 2007. they became intel in early 2006 [12:42] model Macmini2,1 and above [12:42] that's 5 years ago [12:42] also remember, 12.04 = LTS = long support [12:42] Imagine where we'll be in 5 years time [12:42] on irc debating the same thing [12:43] popey++ [12:43] friends and colleagues are buying 8gb RAM PCs mainly it seems [12:43] popey: Yay! [12:44] hopefully i will have kicked the irc habit by then# [12:44] oimon: we love you too :/ [12:44] :P [12:45] if i get moved into open plan office then will be tricky to justify (even if my lunch hour like now) [12:45] MartijnVdS: have you got 5 minutes, I had an odd request which I think you may be able to help with [12:45] our main company comms is via irc :p [12:45] same here ☺ [12:45] oh, an ikonia [12:45] huh [12:46] hello [12:46] oh - they use Javascript for some part of the page so it doesn't display right unless javascript is on :-| [12:46] so - nevermind [12:46] just got press-ganged into a project that will last a year so prob won't be around much anyway [12:50] the curse of being great [12:52] oimon: hmm, so you won't be around anymore? [12:52] ikonia: What's up? :) [12:52] \o hi all btw ^_^ [12:52] HazRPG: dunno [12:52] depends how crazy the workload is [12:53] hey, just plugged in the charger to my touchpad and it rebooted...hmm [12:53] Cray Z? [12:53] oimon: so far most IT jobs I've had, I've managed to justify being able to use IRC ^_^ [12:53] HazRPG: it hampers productivity though, depends how crazy your job is and how much you are micromanaged [12:53] HazRPG: "It's for.. research. Purposes. Yes that's it. Research purposes.' [12:53] MartijnVdS: can I drop you a pm as it's simple but a bit tricky to explain [12:54] ikonia: sure [12:54] all my non IT colleagues are busy on yammer now [12:54] MartijnVdS: indeed :P [12:54] oimon: this is true [12:54] has anyone used Plasma Active ? === angela-android is now known as nothingspecial === nothingspecial is now known as coffeecat === coffeecat is now known as nothingspecial === chalced is now known as chalcedony [13:54] oimon, until you wrote Yammer and I googled it I can't say I've heard of it. [13:54] * diplo crawls out from beneath the rock i must have been under :) [14:05] hmm, when did ubuntu stop mounting drives in /media/ that were accessed through nautilus? [14:05] ie founded 2 x samba drives, and theye not showing in df [14:05] but I can browse them in nautilus [14:07] diplo: the website is indetical to facebook in every way [14:08] is there any way i can collect history of mentions/irc notifications using xchat, rather than scrollback through history looking for highlightas [14:09] I'd like that oimon if you work it out :) [14:09] Never got round to looking into it [14:09] :/ [14:10] Does anyone else get blurry window captures with "Shutter" [14:10] "shutter"? [14:11] The Screen Capturing software [14:11] * MartijnVdS just presses Print Screen [14:12] I was struggling capturing context menu's with the print screen button. [14:12] andylockran, smb mounts are via gvfs [14:12] smittix: gnome-screenshot --delay=2 (seconds delay) [14:12] andylockran, so try ~/.gvfs [14:14] smittix: i use shutter, no probs here [14:15] oimon: Weird It looks all blurry for me. [14:15] MartijnVdS: I will remember that one. [14:16] using v0.85.1 on lucid [14:16] MartijnVdS: Did a little tip on nixaddict.com for the Templates folder stuff. [14:19] smittix: not blurry here either [14:20] Ahh, Within the shutter preview screen it looks blurry. When I go and preview the actual image it looks fine. [14:25] ah, ok [14:41] smittix: it'll be the compression on the frame size due to the frame being way smaller than most applications/screen sizes [14:41] directhex: thanks [14:41] that worked [14:42] MartijnVdS: you there again please ? [14:42] ikonia: Yes? :) [14:42] any chance of a quick translation again please. Google gives me the idea but want to make sure I'm spot on [14:42] ikonia: sure [14:43] I'll send you the URL [14:53] davmor2: I thought it might have been something like that. [14:55] what's the best best i can allow a particular user to add applications to the tomcat apps directory? [14:55] directory is not group-writable ..wondering whether OK to change [15:15] sweet jebus what is going on in that annoying irritaint mbr thread! [15:16] gah, I thought we had settled on sandwich posting [15:17] I've just clicked delete all [15:17] crazy stuff [15:19] * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a "bottom posting only" ink stamp [15:19] davmor2: i do and I snip [15:20] * davmor2 continues to prod czajkowski with the aforementioned ink stamp [15:20] * czajkowski hugs davmor2 [15:21] * czajkowski gives daubers some cake [15:22] czajkowski: I'm down your way Friday [15:22] davmor2: not thursday? [15:23] AlanBell: normally I go down on a Thursday but I need to meet up with someone whose more easily available on a friday [15:23] davmor2: bah I'm gone friday!!FOSDEM! [15:24] so come thursday evening, drink beer, stay somewhere (loadsa park benches) meet someone on friday [15:24] AlanBell: Train is prebooked down friday am and back friday night === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [15:33] AlanBell: to be fair I'll almost certainly be down again at some point, I'd like to try and get down for the release party this time too as I'm hoping to be less swamped [15:33] great [15:34] I am actually in London on Friday too as it happens [15:34] and release party is another thing [15:34] ooh, whatś happening Friday? [15:34] * andylockran is now in London and really for some geeky socialising [15:35] I emailed Marianna at Canonical about it, asking if they were up to anything and she emailed back asking if the LoCo was up to anything [15:35] andylockran: there appears to be a small crowd assembling at the Cask in Pimlico on Thursday [15:36] ☹ I have another thing to go to on thursday in london [15:36] might go there for a bit then come over to the cask [15:37] http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/alerts/sudo_debug.html [15:38] doesn appear to be ubuntuś current version [15:38] popey: we booked you first :p [15:38] friend is leaving the country [15:39] :( [15:40] Agernoon [15:41] * AlanBell sends daubers to Ager management classes [15:42] \o daubers [15:42] AlanBell: Could do with them right now :( [15:43] Excellent - I should be able to make the Cask [15:44] yay [15:44] * AlanBell wonders if ikonia can make it too [15:44] the joys of living joys of living in Brixton [15:47] * davmor2 listening to cd's for the first time in ages 3 cd set called I grew up in the 80's it has some classic tracks [15:54] czajkowski: might have to have a quick one and then come over to the cask [15:56] BEER? did i hear someone mention beer? [15:56] hmm beeeeer [15:56] hmm, we have a -uk team meeting scheduled for Thursday [15:56]