[00:02] gah, OLF talk submissions are open. /me ponders [00:03] ok, now that the boy is in bed I get the honor of going out and shoveling the driveway, yay me [00:05] w00t [00:05] Did that already [00:17] http://www.cafepress.com/soullesstees.440929848 [00:19] kind of dark outside [00:32] Indeed, shovel during day! [02:32] 15:30 UTC/GMT is 10:30AM our time, yes? [02:32] I assume that my brain can do math [02:32] But [02:32] You know what they say about those assumptions. [02:33] add 5 hours [02:33] so yea, you're right [02:34] That is when my brief phone call from Matt is [02:35] cool, matt is a good guy [02:42] Hopefully [02:42] He does not tell me my ambitions are larger than the scope of the role [03:16] Phew [03:16] Just finished up the dishes [11:29] morning [12:07] morning [12:35] I <3 BeautifulStoneSoup [12:35] forgot that audacity uses XML files for the .aup file [12:35] and am using that to figure out track starts [12:44] Stone? [12:53] http://www.quora.com/Engineering-Management/Why-are-software-development-task-estimations-regularly-off-by-a-factor-of-2-3 [13:00] http://abstrusegoose.com/432 [13:00] good day for code jokes [13:01] BeautifulStoneSoup is the XML component for BeautifulSoup [13:01] oh, cool. Never used anything but BS [13:05] i believe that [13:05] rick_h: Yeah, it knocks the pants off of anthing else I've used for parsing XML [13:07] http://lxml.de/ is what I usually use for that when I have to [13:12] grpug folks love lxml [13:12] yea, it's got C extensions, fast, and supports more xml bits than others though I don't normally need xpath and all taht [13:14] Adam Williams loves xml, and he loves lxml [13:14] there's always one nut :P [13:30] how difucult is it to remove kubuntu desktop once an alternative is installed? [13:32] http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde [13:34] close, but that [age shows how to remove everything but kde [13:34] oh sorry ;) [13:34] pretty much impossible [13:36] i see that no commands for that? [13:37] you can sudo apt-get remove --purge kubuntu-desktop [13:37] but that doesn't really remove anything [13:38] ok [13:38] n [13:38] so looks like a reload of ubuntu [13:39] it doesn't hurt anything to leave it in [13:56] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/522/ in case you don't follow the CHC mailing list [13:57] rick_h: Was that the show and tell idea? [13:57] snap-l: yea [13:58] Yeah, that looks interesting [13:58] Maybe we could incorporate that into the long-edition? [13:58] I can't decide. On the one hand, sure cool to see real things [13:58] on the other, it's not like showing bookie will do me a ton of good, these guys are already doing their own things [13:58] and how often is the plan to do this, I'll be showing the same thing for the last year lol [13:59] WEll, how much of it is encouragement, and how much of it is navelgazing [13:59] right [13:59] I think it's good to show your stuff when you think it's ready [13:59] yea, definitely [13:59] but that's what I mean I wonder the purpose [13:59] and maybe it's encouraging to have some arbitrary deadline so you have something to work towars. [13:59] if it's for design idea/help? Just to show/motivate others? [14:00] is it just to put the name out there and try to get local business peeps to show off to? [14:00] bingo. [14:00] Sounds like VC fodder. ;) [14:00] which might be unfair to say :) [14:00] but all the business peeps would have to show something too [14:00] but it has that potential [14:01] the "must show" requirement to attend will turn off many people [14:01] brousch: yea, definitely [14:01] a lot of people [14:01] but helps prevent a meeting of 10 people where only one guy gets up to show something [14:01] I can understand it [14:47] http://justinsomnia.org/2011/03/why-does-that-qr-code-take-me-to-justinsomnia-org/ <- Bwahahaha [14:48] widox: http://element34.ca/blog/introducing-phpwebdriver [14:48] O dpm [14:48] I don't know why that strikes me as so wrong...php webdriver ugh [14:48] and ignore the Odpm, that's what happens at a standing desk when you step away and come back to the keyboard just off a key [14:49] oson? [14:49] rick_h: What's so wrong about a PHP web driver? [14:50] I don't know, it just irks...I guess it's like php shell scripting is what is comes down to [14:50] Though PHP should get something like injection testing. ;) [14:50] even when I did php work, using it so script shell stuff was something that set my teeth on edge [14:50] "Your code has 3,203 SQL injection attacks" [14:50] /so/to [14:51] there are php/gtk bindings [14:51] try to beat that level of wrongness [14:51] rick_h: Yeah, I've seen some of those. It does tend to grate [14:52] brousch: One could argue that Javascript bindings for GTK wouold be just as bad, were it not for Javascript's prominence on the server side [14:52] http://zetcode.com/gui/javascriptgtktutorial/introduction/ [14:52] my god, it's nearly February and I still can't register for Penguicon. For a tech-related con, you'd think it was being run by my technophobic grandmother. [14:52] ColonelPanic001: Yeah, there have been some issues [14:53] snap-l: come on, I thought Gnome Shell was all JS [14:53] JS to rule them all! [14:53] snap-l: every year is like this, though. [14:53] It's like I've woken up in bizarro world. [14:53] ColonelPanic001: I liken it to a racecar, on fire, skidding to the finish line [14:54] Somehow it manages to get 1st place, and still be awesome [14:54] but damned if I'd drive it like that [14:54] "You should go to Penguicon, random person!" "Yeah? What's going on there this year?" "I have no f'ing idea! And I won't until the week of the event!" [14:54] It's kinda like the Mystery Dum Dum Sucker [14:54] maybe someone can do a presentation on "How to install a damn wordpress site" [14:55] ColonelPanic001: Actually, waldo323 is working on it [14:55] "lol are custom see-are-m dont work" [14:55] It's not quite as simple as you might imagine [14:55] "THEN JUST INSTALL WORDPRESS OR SOMETHING IT'S JUST A STATIC SITE ANYWAY" [14:55] Be nice. [14:56] :\ [14:56] I'm sure the adage of "patches welcome" would apply. [14:56] I would gladly install wordpress for them. [14:56] ooooooh, ColonelPanic001, benevolent leader snap-l is gonna CoC-slap you! [14:56] haha [14:56] It won't be too traumatizing. I've seen the CoC before. :( [14:56] Nah, not going that far [14:58] It can't be too bad. I go back every year. [14:58] it'd just be nice to know, once, what it is I'm registering for. [14:58] lol [14:58] It's a surprise. :) [14:58] the problem isn't that you don't know what you're registering for, it's that you do know, and it's not the talks [14:58] I don't think half of the presenters know they're presenting yet [14:59] I mean, rick_h doesn't know he's doing some python presentation at Penguicon yet. [14:59] they should just make it a barcamp [14:59] "Surprise! The only things on the schedule are stuff about chakras and auras!" [14:59] snap-l doesn't know I'm not going yet [14:59] to the coffee shop! [14:59] rick_h doesn't know that while he thinks he's not going, he's still going [14:59] nananananananananana code-man! [15:00] any of you losers on Diaspora? [15:01] all of us! [15:01] that's where all of the actual useful content is [15:01] I'm going to add Craig and then talk about nothing but whining about Penguicon [15:03] ColonelPanic001: I deleted my Diaspora account [15:03] it got too mainstream [15:03] hah [15:03] No, unfortunately it didn't really pan out for me [15:03] more popular than identica [15:04] Relaly? [15:04] brousch: POint me to something useful on diaspora [15:04] i can't. you deleted your account [15:04] can't you... [15:04] Feh [15:04] damnit brousch [15:04] I was in the middle of saying that [15:06] brousch: I think you're confusing Diaspora with Google Plus [15:06] It's understandable, though [15:06] http://www.gizmag.com/diaspora-google-plus-resemblance/20638/ [15:09] never signed up [15:09] * snap-l is addicted to Keurig. [15:11] snap-l: hah, yea I used to use the mocha cups when in the office there [15:12] i assumed keurig was a rock band of some sort [15:13] heh, no the famous k-cups [15:13] everyone is making coffee in the k-cups format these days [15:13] it's the perfect example of the razor/razor blades == $$ [15:14] blah, i use a drip machine, bring it in a thermos [15:14] k-cups? [15:14] short for keurig [15:15] http://www.keurig.com/shop/k-cups/all-k-cups [15:15] basically single serve cups of all kinds of variety [15:15] so you stick it in, brew a cup of coffee, toss the cup [15:15] i have used those in hotels [15:15] morpace has them around the office with some certains flavors [15:15] I used to bring in my own [15:15] i like using the machine [15:16] yea, it's a pretty clean/quick way to go but the cost of the cups as a per-serving thing is a bit nuts vs a bag of beans that can last a month [15:16] yeah, was going to say [15:16] sounds great for vareity, but wasteful [15:17] yea [15:18] Well, it's actually pretty effective for a quick cuppa-joe [15:18] instead of trusting a pot indeterminate-origin coffee. [15:18] yea, it's very user friendly. That whole convience thing [15:18] no pot to clean out [15:18] not the best tasting, but passes [15:18] yeah, that part sounds good [15:18] you need a syringe to inject other things into the cartridge before brewing [15:18] but, extra packaging, etc, etc, as opposed to the "usual" way [15:19] ColonelPanic001: right [15:19] it would be *awesome*, though, for just getting a massive vareity of stuff to try [15:19] well if the packaging is all recyclable or biodegradable, who cares? [15:19] didn't notice right away, they have tea, coffee, etc [15:19] brousch: still energy used to make it, and I doubt it is. Maybe though, I didn't look [15:20] They're decidedly not-green [15:20] i just had a hippie idea. sell a kit to turn the used cartridges into tiny desk plants [15:20] brousch: I like it [15:21] a little packet of dirt to mix with the grounds and a seed or two [15:21] someone get the patent office in here [15:21] Save for the hole at the bottom, that's a brilliant idea [15:21] and the filter media [15:21] snap-l: tape or something, maybe? [15:21] ColonelPanic001: Have you ever tried taping a leak? [15:21] yeah, maybe just make the cup so that's easy to remove [15:22] snap-l: yeah, thoguht that as I typed it [15:22] ;) [15:22] maybe special tape [15:22] magic tape [15:22] it needs drainage [15:23] i'll have to look at some cartridges. i think they use it at The Factory coworking place so maybe i can get some today [15:23] maybe the box they come in has a wax coating, and is shaped to hold the cups with a small gap below the cup [15:24] set cup in there, can drain freely into that [15:27] now I'm craving french vanilla cappuccino [15:27] >:-| [15:27] having a vanilla sugar free latte atm :) [15:28] i have switched to soy in my fru-fru coffees [15:28] good stuff [15:28] except for rare exceptions, the only coffee I drink is from a local coffeeshop. I rarely "drink coffee" in the usual sense, like at work or home or whatever [15:29] and even then it's almost always french vanilla cappuccino, etc. Not just "coffee" [15:30] ColonelPanic001: +1 [15:31] I was a mocha guy for a long time but been hunting tasty lower calorie versions of coffee that's not real coffee [15:31] yeah, that keeps me from drinkning it much [15:31] never had mocha [15:31] I haven't been very adventerous [15:32] that's where I found coffee. This place in Flint had a great mocha. whip cream + shaved choc on top [15:32] was almost a hot sundae [15:32] heh [15:33] i drink black decaf coffee 4-5 days a week and biggby decaf soy nutty buddy 1-2 [15:34] Bah, decaf is for wimps [15:34] * snap-l loves dark coffeee [15:34] yea, don't get the point of decaf [15:34] It's like non-alcoholic beer [15:35] snap-l: thought of you the other day, caribou was giving away samples of their eclipse stuff [15:35] I like french vanilla cappuccino, but sometimes I won't want to be up until 3am. Behold, decaf [15:35] :) [15:35] yea, if I go for that second coffee at CHC it goes decaf [15:35] but only then [15:35] I only get one at all decaf [15:36] or I'll be up until morning [15:36] damnit. I need to do something about the light in here [15:36] caffeine gives me angina, so i drink decaf [15:36] it is beyond me why people would just turn on lights on their desk in a overly bright office where the glare already annoys me [15:37] but no, coworker comes in, turns on the under-shelf lights every morning [15:37] THE MONITORS LIGHT UP ON THEIR OWN, SMARTY [15:37] rick_h: Yeah, I want to try that [15:38] brousch: Yeah, I fear for that day [15:38] hypertension, etc. [15:41] i overdid it for a while, super biggby red-eyes with extra shot a couple of times a week. that's 4 shots of espresso in a 24oz coffee. i think i broke something. [15:42] something like 500mg of caffeine [15:43] ouch [15:44] I just seem to be fairly sensitive to caffeine. If I drink a 20oz of Pepsi in the evening, even just 7pm or so, I'll be up until 3am without even realizing it [15:44] I need ot start backing down. I've noticed that for the last few weeks I've gotten a coffee every day of the week here [15:44] man, glad I'm not that bad [15:44] I have a tendancy to stay up late anyway, but it makes it much worse [15:49] yea, was proud of myself. Normally without wifely supervision I end up awake hacking at 3am [15:49] but I was in bed by 11 each night yay! [15:50] of course I've been sick so that helped [15:50] \o/ [15:50] my girlfriend used to complain, now it's just understood when she goes to bed at 9pm, and I say "I'll be right there in a bit", I mean "like hell, I'll be there in a couple of hours" [15:50] ll [15:50] funny thing is that when she's here, I end up in bed before her [15:51] it's a pure mental thing, strange [15:52] JoDee's found out that "in a bit" means anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour [15:52] <- bad boy [15:53] it's partially her fault anyway, going to bed at 9pm. I'm not 12. [15:53] Yeah, I can't go to bed that early. [15:54] Oh, 3.0 release of Virtualenv wrapper! [15:55] heh [16:15] How did we ever do development before virtual machines? [16:15] Man, I love being able to have a machine that I can just put up and rip apart [16:15] and if things go pear-shaped, I can tear it down without a care in the world. [16:16] we did it right the first time instead of just trying it out [16:17] hah, "we were just better" [16:17] pffft [16:18] I think we just did it on production, and hoped to God it didn't blow up [16:18] If you were lucky, you got something called "Staging" [16:18] <_stink_> sadly.... that is still done [16:19] i was gonna say, i still do that [16:19] shame [16:19] wait, i have a development copy of my access db [16:22] but foxpro changes happen in production because it's commercial software [16:22] Ugh [16:22] See, that pisses me off [16:23] not that you're doing the best you can [16:23] all i can do is wreck reports though [16:23] unless i got really stupid [16:23] but that type of software is licensed in such a way that you have to do something sub-optimal [16:24] now that i think about it, if i really tried i could have a development VM for it [16:25] Go forth, then [16:25] but every time i want to change a report i have to kick every one out, copy GB of files to the dev, let everyone back in, muck around in dev, kick everyone out, make the changes, let everyone back in [16:26] <_stink_> ew [16:26] Ahoy [16:28] yaar [16:45] avast [16:59] The interview seemed to go well. [16:59] Definitely not just a dumb helpdesk position, which is awesome. [17:05] You got an interview for Canonical? Awesome! I'm jealous. [17:05] tjagoda: awesome [17:10] http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html [17:15] wolfger: just a short 10 minute thing. I'm supposed to hear in 3 or so days if I get further. [17:22] Huh, hadn't really dug into what Hip Hop (the PHP complier) is [17:23] (was referenced in an article) [17:29] hip hop == "we chose php for our company and come hell our high water we're going to keep using PHP for our code...scale baby scale!" [17:30] Heh [17:30] That's a pretty fair assessment [17:32] heh, "stupid twitter moving crap to the JVM...should have just hired some compiler nerds to make a super ruby->C compiler so that they could just make ruby faster [17:33] snap-l: :) thanks for that AT&T/bin/true link [17:35] that is true. [17:35] objectiveC is evidence that compiled ruby could be FAST [17:35] for really fast php, see phlanger :o [17:36] greg-g: You're welcome. :) [17:40] I'm missing the object-c/ruby connection? [17:47] rick_h: I'm glad I'm not the only one [17:54] maybe he's referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacRuby [17:59] ah interesting [17:59] not looked at that much, heard macruby but figured it was like mac-vim [17:59] ruby with some mac bindings [18:00] then again I guess I knew ironruby wasn't ruby + windows apis so I'm a moron [18:03] Man, all of these trans-compiled languages. ;) [18:04] rick_h: I think you can be forgiven since iron* was targeted to the .net vm [18:05] I wouldn't have guessed that objective C would be a stepping point for Ruby to Mac. [18:21] no, not at all. [18:22] objc/ruby connection because they are VERY similar languages, that is all. [18:23] all I mean is that given how similar objc is to ruby, there is very little reason for objc to be so fast, and ruby to be slow. [18:23] I've not looked at a ton of ObjC but I wouldn't have considered them similar [18:24] certainly not syntax wise, but lang wise it is very similar [18:24] very similar smalltalk inspired object model [18:25] jrwren: Isn't objc compiled? [18:25] gotcha, yea guess as I've never used ObjC I can't really compare at more than superficial levels [18:26] yes, objc is compiled. that is part of my point. compile ruby. any code that isn't in exec() should compile just fine [18:30] jrwren: But then you can't monkey-patch. ;) [18:32] yes you can :p [18:32] in fact objc formalizes it. its call protocols [18:32] err. [18:32] sorry, categories [18:32] but you don't have to formalize it. [18:32] objc even lets you do method missing :p [18:33] its very rubylike AFAICT [18:34] But then if they make it fast, we'll have to start taking it seriously. [18:35] it would be unwise to not take it seriously, as is. [18:35] truth [18:35] I mean... if google can make JS as fast as V8 makes it... no reason ruby can't be just as fast. [18:35] what are we not taking seriously? I've lost track? [18:35] rick_h: ruby [18:35] oh ruby, I keep poking at ruby then realize I can do it in python [18:35] 3.2.1. [18:35] Man, wasn't even fast enough for THAT. :) [18:36] :P [18:36] 3.2.1? rails? [18:36] you can do anything in python [18:36] but I still use other stuff [18:36] ask diana about how I was the typing champion [18:36] jrwren: yea, definitely, I use JS/node for simple socket servers [18:36] and php when I have to [18:36] and wheee make files [18:36] so bash [18:36] lol. [18:37] wait, doesn't make just use whatever shell is /bin/sh? link to zsh FTW! [18:37] but yea, I've not completed one ruby thing that wasn't just some script for checking battery levels/etc [18:37] heh, I can't assume that on the prod boxes [18:37] no zsh ootb with Ubuntu like RH [18:37] :( [18:37] :\ [18:37] cursed production! [18:49] rick so make the first part of every script an installer for zsh [18:52] rick_h: Oh, it's already come up [18:53] snap-l: what's come up? [18:53] zsh? [18:53] poor zsh has no champion any more at morpace now [19:01] rick_h: No, the fact that you bested the resident typing champion [19:02] oh heh :) [19:02] Apparently I'm failing her as a buddy if I can't make keyboards cry [19:02] ;) [19:02] lol, you went clicky right? takes time to build up those finger muscles [19:03] Nah, I went soft. [19:03] I have a quiet keyboard. [19:03] Logitech K520 [19:03] Comes with a M310 mouse [19:03] no Cherry MX? [19:04] ive decided ALPS switches are not good enough. i want Cherry MX [19:04] jrwren: Not to my knowledge. [19:05] Though I might get something different in the near future [19:06] this was a nice $50 combo [19:06] And honestly, it was the least offensive of the keyboards that I tried [19:06] save for the $100 models that felt only a little bit better [19:06] but sadly, none of them have the nice tactile feel of my mac keyboard. [19:07] jrwren: careful, MX feel strange. They're not like the buckling springs [19:07] jrwren: I've got a pair of cherry mx, one blue and one brown [19:07] If they didn't sound like a firing range, I'd love the feel of the buckling springs. [19:07] yea, I miss my buckling springs, I need to sneak that keyboard back from morpace [19:07] Which one? [19:07] ;) [19:08] so I meant to let what's her name "try" it, but seems she thoght I was giving it to her [19:08] and I forget to clear it up before I left [19:08] Oh, the typing champ? [19:08] the person I beat at the typing thing [19:08] yea [19:08] blanking on her name now [19:08] Good luck with that. :) [19:08] heh, yea I've given it up [19:08] She watches Dexter. I'm not trying to take thet keyboard away for anything [19:08] but I've been tempted to go back from cherry MX to buckling springs [19:09] dexter is awesome [19:09] I REALLY wish they had buckling springs that were 10less [19:09] <3 the size of the 10less keyboards [19:11] Dexter is awesome. [19:11] jrwren: impossible. you must contradict me [19:12] i cannot [19:14] S4 was the bizomb [19:15] Where do you even buy a buckling spring keyboard? [19:15] There's das keyboard, but I dont think that's the fancy spring you speak of [19:15] http://pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=PCK&Screen=PROD&Category_Code=UltraClassic&Product_Code=UB40P4A [19:15] I'm getting one right now actually :) [19:15] second hand store near a landfill in china [19:15] they're bought the IBM patents and are the only ones allowed to make true buckling springs [19:16] Oh hello, USB [19:16]