[00:01] <jimmie> That gives me yet another error. http://pastebin.com/ycT5hjng
[00:01] <jimmie> Seemingly /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
[00:03] <jimmie> Are there any commands that let me see which process is using that?
[00:03] <jimmie> Or should I just restart
[00:03] <gord> lsof | grep config.dat should let you know
[00:12] <jimmie> Hurrah. sudo dpkg --configure -a, worked.
[00:16] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] A year goes past - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/01/30/a-year-goes-past
[00:22] <jimmie> sudo apt-get remove sun-java6-jre is now giving this error: http://pastebin.com/pjxp0vTE
[03:16] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Severed Fifth Release Party this Friday in San Francisco - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/31/severed-fifth-release-party-this-friday-in-san-francisco/
[07:24] <shauno> this is just fantastic.  I've been handed a spreadsheet where excel has 'solved' phone numbers. eg, if the numbered was originally +1234-567-8910, it's now "-8243"
[08:03] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:12] <daubers> Morning
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning - chilli isn't it?
[08:22] <popey> Morning all
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Shock, Gasp, Horror! popey reveals he hasn't listened to a podcast for some months!
[08:24] <popey> well, i listen to linux outlaws live
[08:24] <popey> usually
[08:24] <popey> and often listen to bbc comedy, but most others I haven't
[08:24] <popey> i have no commute now
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't listened to one for more months than that...
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> R4 or Screaming wives/children seems to be about my lot
[08:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.quora.com/Engineering-Management/Why-are-software-development-task-estimations-regularly-off-by-a-factor-of-2-3 Flippant and a bit silly but some good stuff in the comments mind.
[08:33] <DJones> Morning
[08:35] <popey> http://www.shopono.com/products/Zenithink-ZT280-C71-7-Inch-Android-2.3-512MB-DDR2-4GB-G%252dsensor-WIFI-Camera-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-Tablet-PC.html
[08:35] <popey> ^^ the tablet that will also be available with KDE plasma
[08:36] <popey> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/reveal.html
[08:37] <popey> 83 quid for a tablet, not bad
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Seems to have gone up in price somewhat when kde is installed though.
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> €200
[08:38] <popey> yeah
[08:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> I hope everyone who has to has submitted their tax return? Although apparently you have +2 days extra this year due to a possible strike by some hmrc dudes/
[08:40] <popey> yay, new toy arrived
[08:40] <popey> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/models/
[08:40] <popey> intensity pro
[08:41] <selinuxium> Morning all   o/
[08:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning selinuxium. popey I am still none the wiser really. What's it for exactly?
[08:42] <popey> video capture card
[08:45] <selinuxium> Hi popey, how do you do the install whilst leaving your /home intact again?
[08:46] <daubers> popey: black magic stuff is nice. Got lots of that around the office :)
[08:48] <popey> yeah, we have one in the office which was bought so we could record that Ubuntu TV demo video you see kicking around
[08:48] <popey> that was a painful day!
[08:49] <daubers> heh :) Lots of professional edit houses uses black magic
[08:52] <daubers> although capture is going out of fashion really quickly
[08:53] <czajkowski> irksome bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/+bug/896445
[08:53]  * daubers ponders wether he should buy a voice recorder thing, or a video camera
[08:55] <popey> czajkowski: they're all doing it wrong
[08:55] <popey> czajkowski: they're all using sudo to start graphical apps and they should not be
[08:55] <popey> they should be using gksudo
[08:56] <czajkowski> I'm not even doing sudo I just turn on my machine and its crashing:/
[08:58] <popey> its not that you're doing sudo now, but that you may have in the past
[08:58] <popey> it's one of those things that people say "well it works for me!" and carry on doing, and then it bites them 6 months later.. like this
[08:58]  * popey leaves a comment on the bug
[08:58] <czajkowski> nods
[08:58] <czajkowski> ok
[08:58] <czajkowski> thanks
[09:03] <czajkowski> hmm something is running not using cpu much but making my fans spin like crazy
[09:12] <popey> woohoo/21
[09:12] <popey> bah!
[09:18] <gord> got my good battery life back, put i915.i915_enable_rc6=1 in /etc/default/grub and turned off bluetooth :)
[09:18] <popey> sweet
[09:18] <popey> my thinkpad has shipped
[09:18] <popey> can't wait
[09:19] <czajkowski> yay NEW TOY!
[09:19] <MooDoo> :D
[09:22] <gord> averaging a little under ten watts idle :) makes gord happy
[09:22] <diplo> Morning all
[09:28] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
[09:29] <funkyHat> Morning!
[09:30] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:43] <danhg_>  /join #canonical
[09:43] <danhg_> hmm
[09:45] <czajkowski> danhg_: hiya
[09:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone familiar with wsgi at all?
[09:49] <danhg_> Hi czajkowski - are you getting my PVT? Not sure what's working today, having issues with X-Chat...
[09:49] <czajkowski> danhg_: aye just saw
[09:56] <popey> daubers: they make nice big videos ☺
[09:56] <popey> I now have a 5 minute video clip which is 20.9GB in size :D
[09:57] <daubers> popey: :) probably mpeg2?
[09:59] <popey> Untitled 01.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 1920 x 1080, ~24 fps, video:, audio: uncompressed PCM (stereo, 48000 Hz)
[10:02] <daubers> Hmm... ok
[10:02] <directhex> popey, uncompressed 1080p?
[10:03] <directhex> actually it seems you have no FourCC identifying the codec
[10:03] <directhex> or file can't handle whatever it is
[10:04] <popey> yeah, will see what ffmpeg thinks it is
[10:05] <popey>     Stream #0.0: Video: rawvideo, uyvy422, 1920x1080, 24 tbr, 24 tbn, 24 tbc
[10:05] <popey>     Stream #0.1: Audio: pcm_s16le, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s
[10:06] <popey> golly they have properly gone and changed the ffmpeg command line now
[10:06] <popey> it's avconv, not ffmpeg
[10:06] <popey> sadface
[10:11] <directhex> 48khz stereo? that's not hd. i demand 192khz 7.1!
[10:12] <directhex> also, sadface. i got my mother an internet-capable blu-ray player for xmas, for iplayer 'n' stuff. but their dsl is too slow to use it
[10:15] <gord> so. i have a javascript face detector that puts moustaches on faces. - i also have uds group photos. had to be done. http://www.easymustache.com/#http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.pixoulphotography.com%2FEvents%2FUDS-Precise%2Fi-TvBwpKk%2F1%2FXL%2F20111102-145457-UDSPrecise-XL.jpg
[10:18] <oimon> gord: genius
[10:19] <popey> haha
[10:20] <gord> i personally enjoy how mark just looks like that one time he didn't shave for a month
[10:22] <popey> pitti looks cool
[10:23] <gord> kenvandine looks cool, i think he should grow a moustache - suits him
[10:23] <AlanBell> czajkowski didn't get one
[10:24] <czajkowski> neither did the guy to the left of colin watson
[10:24] <oimon> pringles moustaches
[10:24] <czajkowski> or chalesK
[10:24] <oimon> or mr pontipine for those parents
[10:28] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/823664/ to reboot or not to reboot, that is the question
[10:29] <AlanBell> oh, actually I spot the problem, it was gord's fault
[10:30] <gord> eh?
[10:31]  * popey wonders why AlanBell is upgrading and not dist-upgrading
[10:31] <AlanBell> oh I did dist-upgrade
[10:31] <AlanBell> just did that again to get the error message to paste
[10:31] <AlanBell> gord: I added /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig: 35: /etc/default/grub: i915.i915_enable_rc6=1: not foun
[10:31] <gord> AlanBell, oh no, you have to add it to the kernel cmdline
[10:32] <gord> not just to the file
[10:32] <popey> gord: got a magic fix for texture corruption on sandybridge? ☹
[10:32] <gord> you also have to have a sandybridge device iirc ;)
[10:32] <gord> popey, turn that ^^^ off
[10:32] <gord> graphics corruption + power savings or no power savings and no graphics corruption
[10:32] <AlanBell> gord: I have a core i3 with integrated graphics, never figured out if it was sandybridge
[10:33] <popey> i dont have it on
[10:33] <AlanBell> yay, works now
[10:34] <gord> ah, that is what works for me =\
[10:34] <popey> oh, you get reduced corruption from that line?
[10:34] <gord> from switching that line off
[10:34] <gord> with it on i get corruption
[10:37] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:41] <oimon> hello brobostigon
[10:41] <brobostigon> hello oimon
[10:59] <davmor2> morning all
[10:59] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[11:05] <popey> UK list is a bit quiet these days
[11:08] <oimon> wasn't there just a big troll-fest last week on there?
[11:08] <AlanBell> that wasn't trolling
[11:08] <AlanBell> just a spirited debate over a pointless issue
[11:09] <oimon> somebody should draw a graph of the bottom/top posting cycle. would be interesting to see
[11:09] <AlanBell> 40
[11:09] <AlanBell> fail
[11:09] <oimon> and also to predict the next phase
[11:09] <daubers> popey: I've seen quite a few lists turn a bit quiet recently
[11:10] <daubers> popey: I've also seen one get quite a bit more active
[11:11] <oimon> i don't subscribe to uk list, but occasionally browse the archives when i remember to
[11:19] <gord> i've stopped liking mailing lists all together - too much anonymizing and opinion spouting. like writing on a bathroom wall
[11:54] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: just a quick note to thank you, I managed to find two of the products from the shop yesterday, one new and one used, I took them both, thank you
[11:54] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: made a big difference
[12:08] <oimon> what useful stuff does google earth add that isn't on the maps.google site?
[12:11] <hoover> hi folks
[12:24] <oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A-vBbqamNBU#! cute Qt on rPi
[12:28] <smittix> Alreet all
[12:29] <popey> nice
[12:37] <oimon> it's too cold to go out and get lunch :(
[12:37] <mattt> who's off to fosdem this weekend?
[12:41] <awilkins> Oh, Belgium
[12:49] <mattt> awilkins: take that as a no?  :)
[12:49] <awilkins> Alas, no. As much as I like mayonnaise on french fries.
[12:52]  * awilkins is on leave for the week and needs to be occupied.
[12:52] <oimon> were you quoting zaphod b?
[12:53] <awilkins> oimon, It was definitely something from Adams
[12:53]  * DJones directs the St Pauls protesters to occupy awilkins 
[12:54] <oimon> there are protesters at st pauls?
[12:54] <awilkins> The ones in Leeds have all gone
[12:54] <oimon> well it got cold again didn't it?
[12:54] <oimon> or they ran out of fags
[12:55] <simondbull> haven't the police cleared the protestors out of St. Pauls yet?
[12:55] <awilkins> Splitters
[12:55]  * popey puts evil nonfree ffmpeg^H libav in his ppa
[12:56] <oimon> nice
[12:57] <aquarius> OK. Looking for recommendations (for a friend of mine) for a machine which looks pretty and runs Ubuntu well, with 15" screen and backlit keyboard, that isn't a macbook.
[12:57] <simondbull> by police, i meant the emergency services, NOT sting and co.
[12:58] <oimon> aquarius: did you see HP are doing a macbook air clone? http://gizmodo.com/5874613/hps-ultrabook-is-made-out-of-glass
[12:58] <oimon> 14 inch though
[12:58] <awilkins> I can just imagine them fleeing in droves "Noooo! Don't play 'Roxanne' again!"
[12:58] <ahayzen> aquarius: System76 laptop are supposed to be good, http://www.system76.com/laptops/ But I've never had one - yet ;)
[12:58] <aquarius> oimon, I did; heard a couple of dudes talking about HP ultrabooks at ces.
[12:58] <aquarius> ultrabooks have too-small screens for this guy, though
[12:58] <awilkins> aquarius, Work just provided a humungous 17" Dell with a backlit keyboard
[12:59] <awilkins> It's pretty - but also pretty heavy
[12:59] <aquarius> I have my doubts about system76, especially since he wants to dual-boot with Windows
[12:59] <aquarius> awilkins, ah, yeah, not too heavy, either.
[12:59] <simondbull> awilkins: they could send a message in a bottle to the protestor's camp asking them to leave ;)
[12:59] <popey> aquarius: thinkpad
[13:00] <aquarius> popey, fails the "looks pretty" test, in his opinion.
[13:00] <aquarius> (and mine, but you know that)
[13:00] <aquarius> First machine I recommended was the x220 (you see how non-partisan I am!)
[13:00] <aquarius> his opinion is that it "looks like an Amstrad" ;-)
[13:00] <popey> lol
[13:01] <aquarius> and my u300s, which is of course the nicest laptop that's ever existed ever, doesn't have a 15" screen.
[13:01] <aquarius> he's not bothered about it being ultrabook-light, just not super-heavy
[13:01] <popey> ok, other lenovos then
[13:01] <awilkins> My biggest difficulty was finding a laptop with more than 768 vertical pixels that doesn't cost stupid money
[13:01] <popey> G series
[13:01] <popey> which are not thinkpad-ugly
[13:02] <aquarius> what's your reason for recommending lenovo particularly?
[13:03] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/288823-lenovo-ideapad-z570-laptop-m556uuk
[13:03] <awilkins> i) They have historically cared about Linux compatibility ii) They have a reputation for being built like tanks
[13:03] <popey> because I have had sony, toshiba, dell, compaq, hp, fujitsu..
[13:03] <popey> they all suck
[13:04] <aquarius> what a festival of plastic death that laptop is ;)
[13:05] <aquarius> OK. Sony are bad for Ubuntu and eye-bleedingly expensive (pretty, mark you). Tosh are just pony. Dells are OK, though? Compaq/HP... seem to be dying in the market. Fujitsu I have the impression are not good with Ubuntu. Do Samsung do full-size laptops?
[13:05] <awilkins> Current machines ; HP G72 - slightly odd ACPI compatibility, not all the keys work, otherwise very nice
[13:05] <popey> dell is least-worst of that list
[13:05] <czajkowski> aquarius: oi tosh are not ponies!
[13:05] <popey> they are poorly constructed plastic crap
[13:05] <popey> with a bios from 1982
[13:05] <awilkins> Compaq (aka HP) 6910p ; compatible, not unattractive
[13:05] <aquarius> my mate is a Mac guy exploring the idea of moving to Ubuntu, so that gives you a sense of his preferred aesthetic.
[13:05] <popey> sony then aquarius
[13:06] <aquarius> czajkowski, counterpoint: yes they are
[13:06] <aquarius> popey, sony have horrible, horrible Ubuntu support :(
[13:06] <popey> I have one that fell apart in 8 months
[13:06] <popey> aquarius: not all
[13:06] <aquarius> o rly?
[13:06] <awilkins> Dell high end workstation laptop (don't know model number) ; 17" Core i7 Quad, 8GB of RAM ; pretty ; but very heavy - compatible
[13:06] <popey> some are all-intel inside
[13:06] <popey> we stuck a USB stick in one at UDS in MTV
[13:06] <popey> in SFO in the computer place remember?
[13:06] <awilkins> Sony ; hate hate hate hate hate
[13:06] <aquarius> can you name a pretty great-Ubuntu-support Sony machine?
[13:07] <awilkins> Awful hardware, concentrate mostly on prettiness it seems
[13:07] <czajkowski> I could never get the sony keys to work under Ubuntu
[13:07] <popey> VGN-Z540
[13:07] <czajkowski> this machine bar a few tweeks  at instal has worked superb on Precise
[13:07] <directhex> vaios are built terribly
[13:07] <popey> oh, thats an old one
[13:08] <popey> yeah, my vaio fell apart too ☹
[13:08] <directhex> there's no such thing as a happy vaio owner, just sad vaio owners and soon-to-be-sad vaio owners
[13:08] <awilkins> Out of all of the lines I've actually tried, I think HP have been the best, but I suspect that's because I never get my hands on Lenovos
[13:08] <awilkins> I would avoid Fujitsu and Sony like the plague
[13:08]  * aquarius cackles. OK, no sonys then :)
[13:08] <popey> so dell
[13:08] <aquarius> So, we're looking at Dell or Lenovo, then?
[13:08] <popey> the one that victorp has is cute
[13:09] <popey> quite robust looking too, bit industrial like a thinkpad tho
[13:09] <aquarius> czajkowski, toshibas are horrible plastic nightmares :)
[13:09] <awilkins> Dell also own Alienware, which are not Mac pretty but can be Ricer Pretty
[13:09] <aquarius> haha my mate is not gonna groove to the Alienware neon vibe, trust me :)
[13:09] <directhex> i liked my last dell
[13:09] <davmor2> aquarius: lenovo, hp, samsung, asus, acer and dell
[13:09] <directhex> honestly, i did
[13:09] <aquarius> I liked my last Dell, too
[13:09] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=relevancy&limit=10&filtercat=10&filterca140=15
[13:09] <directhex> the dell i had before that as built like a tank too
[13:09] <victorp> what.. me .. cute?
[13:09] <popey> only on weekends
[13:10] <czajkowski> aquarius: we can agree to disagree shall we
[13:10] <aquarius> hm, asus and acer. Didn't think of them. Do they do full-size laptops with good Ubuntu support?
[13:10] <aquarius> czajkowski, sounds a fair plan :)
[13:10] <directhex> usually i'd pick a high-end latitude above a thinkpad, given the option
[13:10] <aquarius> victorp, what's your laptop, my man?
[13:10] <directhex> but with an office flooded with thinkpad docks and chargers...
[13:10] <victorp> latitude 2120
[13:10] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/339443-exdisplay-dell-15r-laptop-intel-core-i5-2410m-2-3ghz-4gb-ram-640gb-hdd-ebr1-5110-3663
[13:10] <victorp> dell
[13:10] <popey> bargain
[13:10] <davmor2> aquarius: ignore czajkowski she disagrees with everyone
[13:10] <popey> not a bad spec
[13:10] <victorp> but... not so sure on robustness, I step on it at last UDS and the screen shattered
[13:10] <aquarius> well, she disagrees with *me* a lot, but that's half the fun :)
[13:10] <awilkins> I like Asus desktop-PC hardware but have never tried their laptops
[13:11] <victorp> although I cant blame it
[13:11] <aquarius> victorp, you *trod* on it??
[13:11] <aquarius> not sure anyone's laptop is robust against that test ;)
[13:11] <davmor2> aquarius: samsung, acer and asus all do full laptops, I thought you had a lenovo U300 or am I dreaming?
[13:11] <victorp> aquarius, probably not
[13:11] <aquarius> davmor2, I do
[13:11] <victorp> :)
[13:12] <victorp> aquarius, I must say replacing the screen was easy enough..
[13:12] <victorp> popey, but dell also does a fully rugged version
[13:13] <aquarius> dell website throwing error pags when I try and look at laptops. Useful, Dell.
[13:13] <popey> aquarius: that ebuyer link above...
[13:13] <popey> looked it up on the hardware db, looks good
[13:14] <popey> all intel (bar wifi) inside
[13:14] <daubers> eww, 10/100 ethernet
[13:14] <popey> eww wires
[13:14] <davmor2> aquarius: Wifey had the ubuntu dell machine and has had no issues with it, I have a HP G62 and have had no issues with it after the kernel team enabled the wifi, and I just got an asus mobo in this box if it's build and speed is anything to go by asus lappy should be good
[13:14] <ahayzen> “People liked NASCAR because the constant crashes made it exciting, and this gave me an idea...” ~ Bill Gates on Microsoft Windows
[13:14] <daubers> wires are essential :)
[13:14] <aquarius> dell website is completely spedged. Excellent, not.
[13:15] <davmor2> aquarius: you might want to look at the what hardware works with Ubuntu webpage to help you decide though
[13:15] <popey> ahayzen: from uncyclopedia .. not known for factual accuracy
[13:15] <victorp> aquarius, sorry I am late into the conversation but what are you trying to decide?
[13:16] <ahayzen> popey: It is funny though especially the one on Steve Ballmer
[13:16] <aquarius> victorp, looking for recommendations (for a friend of mine, currently a Mac user) for a machine which looks pretty and runs Ubuntu well (and can dual-boot with Windows), with 15" screen and backlit keyboard, that isn't a macbook.
[13:16] <victorp> aquarius, for a friend of mine... yeah right :)
[13:16] <popey> hah
[13:17] <aquarius> victorp, I have the Lenovo U300s, which is the best laptop in the world. I'm not looking for another one :)
[13:18] <victorp> have you checked out the lenovo x1
[13:19] <davmor2> aquarius: http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/
[13:19] <awilkins> I love the sailor motif
[13:20] <oimon> arggh it is *so* cold outside!
[13:21] <gord> got my laptop up to 9 hours battery :D
[13:21] <directhex> i need to go outside and do some DIY
[13:21] <victorp> http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Special_Edition/ASUSAutomobili_Lamborghini_VX7/
[13:21] <victorp> honestly.. ^^
[13:21] <aquarius> victorp, he thinks that Thinkpads look like an Amstrad :)
[13:21] <awilkins> gord, Precise, one presumes?
[13:21] <gord> well 9 hours if i don't touch it and have it running nothing
[13:21] <gord> awilkins, yup
[13:21] <victorp> aquarius, well.. it is retro-cool :)
[13:21] <popey> wow
[13:21] <awilkins> Hah, that Lambo notebook ;smirk
[13:22] <popey> thats properly the definition of fugly right there
[13:22] <victorp> aquarius,  fader got this but I am not sure how well it runs http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX21E-DH71-11-6-Inch-Ultrabook-Aluminum/dp/B005SY30I2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323104089&sr=8-1
[13:22] <awilkins> I prefer the UX31 ; it has a 1600x900 display
[13:22] <awilkins> But it looks very Mac-Pretty
[13:22] <aquarius> victorp, yeah, they're nice, but he wants 15" screen which rules out al the ultrabooks. And my u300s is nicer than fader's ux31; we had a fight about that at ces ;)
[13:23] <popey> hmm, why did I buy an x220 and not an x1?
[13:23] <oimon> i like thinkpad's but i wouldn't describe them as pretty. some people do :-\
[13:23] <awilkins> I hate chiclet keys
[13:23] <popey> pretty in a way only a mummy could love
[13:23] <gord> the x220 is fairly pretty until you open it
[13:24] <oimon> the bento box design is deliberate
[13:24] <victorp> aquarius, I hope he kicked your ass then
[13:24] <victorp> :)
[13:24] <awilkins> My requirements for laptop : 1) Ubuntu compatible ('natch) ii) Not chiclet keys iii) Vertical resolution of 900 pixels or higher
[13:24] <popey> "My wife is gorgeous until you look at her"
[13:24] <oimon> did someone really say that?
[13:24] <aquarius> victorp, he tried. I had to eventually concede the marvellousness of his purple jacket :)
[13:24] <popey> I just did
[13:25] <dwatkins> Did you get slapped for it, popey? ;)
[13:25] <victorp> aquarius, and why not a mac?  I think support for them is getting better in Ubuntu
[13:25] <victorp> apw ^^
[13:25] <aquarius> victorp, two reasons, (1) popey, (2) he's currently a mac user, and wants to try Ubuntu, and "support is getting better" isn't there yet.
[13:25] <awilkins> That T520 is probably very nice but doesn't meet the "pretty" requirement...
[13:25] <awilkins> http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=37&Code=T520_DISCRETE&current-category-id=96EBC6A8C8EC47A59E95B3D5E300F333&tab=2
[13:26]  * oimon gets great deals on dell kit, shame i can't share them with you
[13:26] <victorp> aquarius, ah
[13:26] <aquarius> why do all laptop manufacturers have such lame URLs?
[13:27]  * daubers wonders what happened to all the independant video games shops
[13:27] <popey> victorp: i just got rid of my mac
[13:27] <aquarius> except asus, it seems. nice one asus.
[13:27] <oimon> daubers: steam?
[13:27] <victorp> popey - well done! did it hurt?
[13:27] <oimon> they evaporated ho ho ho
[13:27] <popey> desura
[13:27] <directhex> daubers, inability to compete with Game
[13:27] <victorp> :)
[13:27] <daubers> oimon: Steam is useless for my type of gaming :)
[13:27] <popey> hah
[13:27] <daubers> directhex: I've been into 4 different Game/Gamestation stores yesterday, nont one had the game I was after
[13:27] <oimon> near me there's a CEX computer exchange
[13:27] <gord> video game shops are basically pawn shops these days
[13:28] <gord> don't bother with them
[13:28] <aquarius> also, stone me, Asus make a lot of laptops
[13:28] <directhex> daubers, you don't matter, since you're not buying battlefield 3 used
[13:28] <oimon> kids play their games and sell  them back to shop after 4 weeks
[13:28] <directhex> daubers, GAME only want to sell you used battlefield 3 and modern warfare 3 for £3 off new price
[13:28] <directhex> anyone else is an outlier and not worth accommodating with shelf space
[13:28] <daubers> directhex: It also annoys me that they unseal all the games before selling them and their refund policy states you can only return them sealed
[13:29] <oimon> really?
[13:29] <oimon> have you requested that they don't do that?
[13:29] <daubers> Yup. They're supposed to put these stickers on them to show they've been resealed, but largley they don't in a few shops
[13:29] <daubers> oimon: They do it to take the CD's out of the boxes that go on the shelves
[13:29] <directhex> they only do it with the fringe games
[13:30] <directhex> for the major games, they have dummy cases and a stack of sealed pristine games
[13:30] <daubers> they do it to annoy me :)
[13:30] <oimon> admittedly i haven't been in game for yonks, and only then to look at wii games
[13:30] <directhex> it's only the games they have 2 or 3 of where they empty the boxes out & use the real cases as dummies
[13:31] <aquarius> hey, Asus, let me say "I want a 15" laptop" without going through every laptop and looking at the sizes, eh?
[13:31]  * ikonia is a dummy
[13:31] <directhex> agreed
[13:32]  * daubers gives up and orders some xbee's from an independant electronics stockist instead
[13:32] <oimon> i bought my laptop from http://www.dell.co.uk/outlet excellent deal
[13:33] <dwatkins> yeah, Dell's outlet is superb, I got a really cheap desktop from there a few years ago
[13:34] <oimon> i also managed to get mine fixed 1 day before the 3yr support ran out
[13:34] <awilkins> I don't really patronise game shops anymore
[13:34] <awilkins> I'll buy big titles at ASDA because they usually set a good price
[13:34] <awilkins> But only if I want them while they are new
[13:34] <ikonia> I need a new laptop but nothing excites me at all
[13:34] <gord> i just use amazon or an online store in canada
[13:35] <gord> for imports
[13:35] <awilkins> I like GOG
[13:35] <awilkins> I have a nasty feeling that I could basically eat all my time if I spent enough money there
[13:35] <ikonia> gog ?
[13:35] <awilkins> They have Baldur's Gate II
[13:35] <gord> GOG is my favourite retailer of games i keep buying but never playing - because i am just buying games i already beat 10 years ago
[13:35] <awilkins> I never completed it because my laptop got nicked with disk 2 in it
[13:36] <dwatkins> gog.com - they adjust games to work on recent operating systems, like Windows 7
[13:36] <gord> oh you should, it only gets better :)
[13:36] <awilkins> But I think I must have spent over 80 hours just to get to disk 2
[13:36] <gord> dwatkins, they just run everything in dosbox ;)
[13:36] <awilkins> So I shudder to think how much time it would consume if I bought it again
[13:36] <awilkins> I suppose the loading delays would be much smaller :-)
[13:36] <awilkins> I never played Planescape : Torment either
[13:37] <awilkins> So there's another huge chunk of time waiting to be eaten
[13:37] <oimon> my laptop suffered a weird exploding pixel issue where i think the lcd leaked onto other surrounding http://ubuntuone.com/0bNET47RVWFkHBmPPoNsgE
[13:38] <awilkins> ikonia, http://gog.com # Good Old Games
[13:38] <awilkins> Oops, already answered
[13:38] <simondbull> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:BillGatesUbuntuLinuxPrpleeeee.png
[13:38] <simondbull> too true^
[13:42] <oimon> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.valvesoftware.android.steam.community << what does this do? seems like a chat client and advertising portal for steam games for now
[13:43] <directhex> oimon, correct.
[13:43] <directhex> oimon, steam chat, and store access
[13:43] <dwatkins> yep, or you can browse screenshots and buy games
[13:45] <oimon> "buy games"..pay money but download later on your pc
[13:45] <oimon> it seems like passwords and security got thrown out of the window with mobile devices.
[13:46] <oimon> it doesn't even seem possible to have user profiles on android tablets
[13:46] <oimon> so my missis and 2yr old have to use my setup?
[13:46] <dwatkins> I thought there was a guest mode for Android
[13:46] <oimon> oh, never seen that
[13:47] <directhex> tablets aren't multi-user, true
[13:47] <directhex> one per family member is the model!
[13:48] <oimon> and yet we keep on complying
[13:49] <directhex> everyone wants a tablet. general-use computers are for chumps
[13:49] <awilkins> So : Phantom Menace in 3D .... MEEEEEH
[13:49] <AlanBell> jar jar binks in 3d \o/
[13:49] <oimon> devices with replaceable batteries are for mugs too :D
[13:49] <awilkins> Jar Jar Binks lifesize animatronic doll that pleads for it's life when you beat it up \o/
[13:50] <directhex> awilkins, i'm not a fan of converted-to-3d-in-post films at the best of times
[13:50] <AlanBell> I am amazed it works at all
[13:50] <oimon> i guess they just draw outlines around the characters
[13:50] <directhex> paralax up in this bitch
[13:51] <oimon> did anyone watch the fan-sourced scene-for-scene copy of EP IV ?
[13:51] <directhex> they already have the foreground and background separately composited
[13:51] <AlanBell> oimon: no it is done with crunchy computers
[13:51] <directhex> so they just shift the focal point on the background comp to add a fake second camera
[13:51] <oimon> ive never seen a 3d film
[13:51] <oimon> i reckon it would make me feel sick
[13:52] <directhex> oimon, fixed focal point. some people can view it, some can't
[13:52] <oimon> even sitting in the front half of the cinema makes me and the missis feel motion sick
[13:52] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2D_to_3D_Conversion
[13:52] <awilkins> I usually feel fine, but I saw some stuff at Disney that made me feel sick
[13:52] <oimon> that's understandable awilkins
[13:52] <awilkins> The worst thing was the Aladdin VR helmet thing
[13:52] <directhex> awilkins, most of disney's tech is ancient
[13:52] <awilkins> I think it was the disconnect between the proprioception in my brain and the 3D landscape
[13:53] <directhex> like 20 years old minimum. it's terrible 3d
[13:53] <awilkins> Yeah, I got the sense that the older 3D is more vomitworthy
[13:53] <awilkins> Had the cold sweats and everything
[13:54] <oimon> offtopic, i've seen a few people posting spam links on facebook today. then they complain they "got hacked" but don't remove the link/status update containing the spam :(
[13:55] <shauno> that one's easily solved; stay off facebook at work :)
[13:55] <oimon> but it's lunchtuime :D
[13:55] <directhex> i have a 3d tv, 3d games, and 3d movies. i get a sense of what sucks and what doesn't
[13:55] <ikonia> directhex: share your views
[13:55] <awilkins> I quite fancy a 3D monitor for my gaming PC sometimes - not sure if my lowly 560Ti can hack it though
[13:56] <davmor2> directhex: Stop calling them 3d they are 2 1/2d at best ;)
[13:56] <awilkins> davmor2, Yeah, but so is our human viewpoint - we perceive a 2 dimensional projection of three dimensions, just like they provide on a screen
[13:57] <awilkins> The only difference being that we can move our viewpoint in the world
[13:57] <ikonia> directhex: are you still dissapointed with content volume /
[13:57] <hamitron> davmor2, 2d*2d = 4d^4
[13:57] <hamitron> davmor2, 2d*2d = 4d^2
[13:57] <directhex> ikonia, mostly annoyed with pricing and exclusivity deals which seem designed to prevent 3d adoption
[13:57] <hamitron> bah :/
[13:58] <ikonia> directhex: have you tried sky's offering at all ?
[13:58] <davmor2> awilkins: Nope because we can walk behind a thing and see the rest of it, bring on the starwars holograms then we are talking proper 3d
[13:58] <hamitron> so it is single point 3d?
[13:58] <directhex> ikonia, i can't fathom how mentally subnormal the studios need to be in order to make a technology a large percentage of the population are kinda leery about orders of magnitude more costly than non-3d, such that only complete berks like me buy into it
[13:58] <directhex> ikonia, i don't have £720 a year for sky3d
[13:58]  * daubers has wondered how long people have been locking at line segments on a screen for
[13:59] <ikonia> directhex: subscription = waste, just curious if you'd seen/tried it
[13:59] <awilkins> I think the BBC showed "Strictly" in 3D on their HD channel
[13:59] <directhex> ikonia, seen it, yes. father in law has it
[13:59] <ikonia> awilkins: nope
[13:59] <awilkins> Flavia's legs in HD / 3D would probably be worth it :-)
[13:59] <ikonia> directhex: thoughts on it
[13:59] <oimon> nice. my vsphere install is failing to update. good enterprise software
[13:59] <directhex> the bbc have shown 3c content on bbc hd, using side-by-side transmission
[13:59] <MooDoo> +1 awilkins
[13:59]  * hamitron wouldn't say "no" to any of them
[14:00] <directhex> i.e. you set your TV to do manual 3d compsiting, and the output is half resolution (920x1080 per eye)
[14:00] <davmor2> So okay guys serious question time,  Who uses an unlimited streaming movie service and would they recommend it?
[14:00] <popey> by "unlimited streaming" do you mean newsgroups?
[14:00] <ikonia> directhex: doesn't sound like it's thought through as a service
[14:00] <hamitron> :|
[14:00] <directhex> ikonia, good 3d content is good. i guess if you already have a reasonably high end sky sub, consider sky 3d. if you're not already paying them a lot, the price jump isn't worth it
[14:00] <ikonia> popey: quote of the day
[14:00] <davmor2> popey: no like love film, net flix etc
[14:01] <popey> netflix have old films
[14:01] <ikonia> directhex: not got a 3d TV, not convinced by the update at this time
[14:01] <shauno> I really want to, but netflix's catalogue is still subpar.  (unless you're a fan of bollywood)
[14:01] <popey> and silverlight
[14:01] <directhex> ikonia, sky's 3d channel is in packed bitframe format, i.e. if you have a full 3d hdmi chain from sky box to tv, then the tv just works, and shows full resolution per eye
[14:01] <awilkins> It's the long tail again ; if you are OK with not talking about the latest content round the watercooler (as geeks I suspect we're not bothered), then a 10 year latency on your media stream is just fine
[14:01] <hamitron> I reckon 3d is still more worthwhile for gaming
[14:01] <directhex> ikonia, bbc hd is a 2d channel, but you can always transmit two 2d signals side by side, and every 3d tv is capable of various recompositing modes, for non-packed-bitframe sources
[14:01] <ikonia> directhex: not quite ready to move onto that band wagon yet
[14:02] <directhex> hamitron is spot on. 3d gaming is the shiznitz
[14:02] <directhex> wipeout in 3d is OMG
[14:02] <ikonia> ahh gaming I could do
[14:02] <hamitron> "in the game", visually must really add to it
[14:03] <oimon> davmor2: i had a link showing which programmes were available on which service, i'll see if i can find it.
[14:03] <hamitron> only thing better, would be to be able to look around
[14:03] <awilkins> Yeah, the problem with looking around is that the screen doesn't move even if you have a head tracking controller
[14:04] <davmor2> oimon: that would be great ta
[14:04] <awilkins> And if you have a head-mounted screen, the latency has to be really low or you puke
[14:04] <hamitron> so not wireless
[14:04] <oimon> it seems you can't search your own g+ feed :(
[14:04] <hamitron> but I'd be willing to pay £500 for a headset
[14:04] <hamitron> if it was decent
[14:05] <hamitron> ideally 3d too
[14:05] <hamitron> :)
[14:05] <hamitron> but 2d would be fine
[14:05] <awilkins> A full HD pair of VRD (virtual retinal display) elements would be super
[14:06] <awilkins> If they also had a full HD LCD mask shutter behind them, even better
[14:06] <oimon> davmor2: http://www.tnl.net/blog/2012/01/21/the-2011-state-of-internet-vod-tv/
[14:06] <davmor2> oimon: ta
[14:06] <oimon> might not be exactly what ur after, but still of interest
[14:06] <awilkins> "New, Reality + head up goggles. Mask out the bits of life you DON'T want to see, and replace them with what you DO"
[14:07]  * hamitron unticks "clothed"
[14:07] <dogmatic69> any tricks to printing to a wifi printer?
[14:07] <czajkowski> dogmatic69: nope should just work
[14:08] <czajkowski> dogmatic69: connect to it on the network and file print
[14:08] <hamitron> but in all seriousness, I'd be happy if I could just look around in a racing game, and experience the feel of 3d
[14:08]  * daubers goes to try and find a windows xp machine in the building
[14:08] <czajkowski> working fine here on a O and a P machine
[14:08] <oimon> davmor2: also this post contains info about films http://www.tnl.net/blog/2012/01/28/streaming-held-back/ << netflix looking pretty lame to me
[14:08] <Darael> dogmatic69: Have one that's not listed in the open printing database as a paperweight.  Otherwise, don't think so.
[14:09] <shauno> the trick with netflix appears to be that if you're "on holiday" in the US, you're "restricted to" the US catalogue.
[14:09] <dogmatic69> czajkowski: I dont see it anywhere, should I add it in printers first?
[14:09] <oimon> " Only 43% of the top 50 British films can be bought or rented online. Similarly, only 58% of the BAFTA Best Film award winners since 1960 have been made available."
[14:10] <oimon> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/ourwork/reports/cant-look-now:-finding-film-online
[14:11] <czajkowski> dogmatic69: you stil need to add the printer to your network like you would do if you were connecting to it directly
[14:11] <czajkowski> dogmatic69: so under printers add a new printer via the network
[14:12] <czajkowski> and add it there
[14:12] <czajkowski> then print once added
[14:12] <dogmatic69> think I just got it sorted.. trying to open 'networks' in nautilis was moaning, had to install gvfs-backends
[14:12] <dogmatic69> now I can open networks window and see something
[14:13] <dogmatic69> thanks, seems to have it. trying to install drivers :S
[14:16] <apw> victorp, mac are always trouble, they change them without warning
[14:17] <czajkowski> dogmatic69: shouldnt really have to add drivers a lot are already there
[14:17] <dogmatic69> not mine :/
[14:17] <dogmatic69> x4875
[14:17] <victorp> apw - bastards!
[14:18] <dogmatic69> (lexmark) there are some x46 somethings
[14:25] <smittix> Yay, my website stats are going up already. which is always a good thing.
[14:32] <oimon> i wish international travel wasn't a requirement for working with canonical
[14:33] <czajkowski> who doesnt like to travel!
[14:34] <davmor2> oimon: why?
[14:34] <oimon> i really don't like flying
[14:34] <oimon> or business travel in general tbh
[14:34] <czajkowski> sladen: ping
[14:34] <ikonia> it can be a real drag oimon I feel your pain
[14:35] <oimon> ikonia: had a lot of bad experiences that kind of conditioned me into hating it
[14:35] <davmor2> oimon: man it's a huge adventure for me everytime I go :)
[14:35] <oimon> e.g. you must achieve this objective in NY within 5 days. no extensions
[14:36] <ikonia> oimon: I had some nice travel and some not so nice travel but the concept of regular travel can be negative depending on your situation at that time
[14:36] <oimon> you have 3 days in italy to roll out this deployment. btw nobody speaks english
[14:36] <daubers> I'd be tempted by any job that meant I didn't have to go into London
[14:37] <oimon> then your plane gets diverted 50 miles away due to fog.
[14:37] <davmor2> daubers: I hate London it's a huge rip off but I need to go from time to time like errrmmmm Friday for example cause that happens to be where the people I need to talk to are and face to face is easier than over the phone
[14:37] <oimon> all the italians wander off than do their thing. english guy left trying to find a bus to the city
[14:38] <czajkowski> oimon: meh maps
[14:38] <awilkins> Are we talking hardware deployment .. I quite like our server infrastructure, with the right passwords you can install an OS from scratch without entering the datacentre
[14:38] <mattt> oimon: hahaha
[14:38] <oimon> pre smartphone days
[14:39] <daubers> davmor2: The vast majority of the UK Media industry are in London, so I have to go there too often to either fix broken things or design new things to fix a weird workflow
[14:39] <czajkowski> oimon: I didnt say a smart phone I said a map
[14:39] <mattt> oimon: i'm with you man
[14:39] <oimon> czajkowski: do i take a detailed map of every possible airport and city we could land at?
[14:39] <czajkowski> I get one at every airport I land in
[14:40] <czajkowski> that is why they ahve them there free for folks to pick up
[14:40] <oimon> this was a backup airfield i think
[14:41] <oimon> i also got chased by sicilian muggers once
[14:41] <mattt> :P
[14:42] <oimon> the company got me a hotel in the grim area of town
[14:42] <oimon> note: jolly hotel is not jolly
[14:43] <oimon> also, glasgow prestwick is not in glasgow
[14:43] <mattt> ha
[14:44] <czajkowski> nope its not but alot of EU counteries have multipe airports and not all are city center
[14:44] <czajkowski> standsted is a prime example of one
[14:44] <oimon> prestwick is about the same distance from glasgow as edinburgh is
[14:45] <oimon> "glasgow edinburgh"
[14:45] <mattt> not all travelling is bad
[14:45] <mattt> but i think some places make it more difficult than others
[14:46] <mattt> "guilty until proven innocent"
[14:46] <oimon> yeah, never wear a casio F91W watch to the US
[14:47] <mgdm> heh heh
[14:47] <oimon> i made the mistake of missing a section of an unclear form in customs and the guy almost wanted to kill me.
[14:47] <mgdm> I have one of those
[14:48] <mattt> or never have cat5 cables hanging out of your bag while going through customs
[14:48] <oimon> he went mental when i returned to my place in the queue to make the 1 line change. "GET TO THE BACK OF THE QUEUE...now NEXT...5 people behind me suddenly realise they have done the same thing on the form as me,...nobody wants to approach the mad guy"
[14:49] <oimon> somebody got sent home from US visit the other day after making a joke on twitter about digging up marilyn monroe
[14:50] <gordonjcp> yeah, I saw that
[14:50] <gordonjcp> I don't think there's anything that could convince me to travel to the US, now
[14:51] <popey> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/red-hat-extends-red-hat-enterprise-linux-lifecycle-to-ten-years/10237
[14:51] <popey> golly
[14:52] <mattt> pity the developer that gets roped into that platform
[14:52] <directhex> i wouldn't want to be the chump supporting 10 year old libs
[14:53] <oimon> i discovered i have 1 RH4 box
[14:53] <oimon> all others are 5 & 6
[14:53] <oimon> 6 has been a bit of nightmare though
[14:53] <mgdm> popey: oh no :(
[14:53] <ali1234> does raspberry pi have an irc channel?
[14:54] <awilkins> ali1234, It seems to have more users than this one #raspberrypi
[14:54] <ali1234> awesome
[14:54] <oimon> its the unofficial one
[14:54] <ali1234> i was just browsing their forums and the types of question i want to ask always get replies like "you shouldn't do that it's too hard lol"
[14:54] <ali1234> and now their database has crashed
[14:54] <czajkowski> yup
[14:55] <oimon> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/592 is interesting post today
[14:55] <ali1234> oimon: we already knew all that
[14:55] <ali1234> standard practice for socs really
[14:56] <oimon> ali1234: nice of them to explain it all to those not so acquainted with ARM SoC though
[14:56] <oimon> like me
[14:56] <ali1234> all you need to know is you need a binary driver to make it do anything video related
[14:56] <ali1234> everything else has open source drivers, but no documentation other than the code
[14:57] <oimon> debian should be possible with binary driver though
[14:57] <ali1234> of course, what i actually meant to say was "standard practice for broadcom"
[14:57] <ali1234> yes, but suppose you have a question like "what is the maximum SPI clock frequency, and where are the registers to set it?"
[14:57] <ali1234> the datasheet would tell you that, if it were available
[14:58] <ali1234> or, "how do i configure overscan on the composite video out?"
[14:58] <AlanBell> ali1234: eben would know
[15:00] <AlanBell> ooh I know what goes in overscan
[15:00] <awilkins> Teletext?
[15:00] <AlanBell> yup
[15:01] <ali1234> actually it doesn't
[15:01] <awilkins> Teletext goes in VBI
[15:01] <ali1234> but regardless
[15:01] <ali1234> having one guy knowing this stuff is going to get old fast
[15:01] <ali1234> we need the datasheet
[15:01] <awilkins> Chain him to a laptop configured to only allow him to i) Watch IRC for questions ii) Author wiki pages
[15:02] <awilkins> For maximum irony, make the computer a Raspberry Pi
[15:02] <gord> i though the raspberrypi used hdmi not composite video out?
[15:02] <sladen> czajkowski: yo
[15:02] <ali1234> gord it has both
[15:03] <ali1234> how they are related is undefined though
[15:03] <gord> hrm
[15:03] <sladen> oimon: I do most of the Canonical business travel /without/ flying!
[15:03] <czajkowski> sladen: shal we be seeing you at FOSDEM this weeekend ?
[15:03] <ali1234> it's not clear if the composite out is just a cheap ass scaler, or an actual real output
[15:03] <sladen> czajkowski: dunno.  Normally I'd say yes, but I haven't arranged anything
[15:03] <oimon> sladen: nice work - eurostar?
[15:03] <gord> wouldn't mind replacing my revos with raspberry pi's
[15:03] <czajkowski> sladen: boooo
[15:04] <sladen> oimon: Hoek-van-Holland to Harwich Ferry yesterday, but yes, frequently the journies in Europe start off with the Eurostar to Brussels
[15:04] <sladen> oimon: and the trip, to Orlando started off with a posh ferry called the QM2 between Southampton and New York
[15:05] <sladen> gord: I have your bottle of shampoo, carefully transported across Europe
[15:05] <gord> sladen, consider it a present, from me, to you ;) (throw it in the bin)
[15:06] <gord> i don't take body wash back home when flying, it explodes too much
[15:06] <sladen> urgh
[15:06] <sladen> er.  ni-ice
[15:06]  * awilkins wonders why Cursum Perficio by Enya has spontaneously arisen in his head
[15:08] <aquarius> update on laptop-for-friend search: current top of the list is the HP Envy 17, and that looks like it has reasonable Ubuntu support according to Google. Any big reasons why not? (Note: I quite like HPs.)
[15:09] <oimon> sladen: you seriously took a boat to the states?
[15:10] <czajkowski> oimon: you've clearly not met sladen
[15:12] <oimon> no. although i'm not sure i could handle the length of the boat journey either
[15:13] <sladen> oimon: just don't go then!
[15:13] <oimon> i don't :D
[15:13] <awilkins> aquarius, I like the potential for 3 displays on that thing :-)
[15:14] <czajkowski> oimon: so no to planes and no to boats, how are you with trains or do you walk most places?
[15:18] <sladen> (it's worth saying that Canonical are accepting and generally accomodating)
[15:18] <sladen> happy people etc
[15:20] <oimon> i used to go abroad more, i just stopped enjoying it a few years ago
[15:20] <oimon> fortunately my wife's ideal holiday is hiding away in devon+cornwall
[15:21] <oimon> i guess i'll have to get over it since my sis lives in denmark
[15:21] <oimon> and she would like a visit
[15:54] <oimon> just got a £2000 credit card bill ...ooof
[15:55] <mattt> oimon: hope the real doll is worth it
[15:56]  * dwatkins is rearranging money to pay off a credit card and overdraft
[16:05]  * czajkowski hugs popey 
[16:10] <daubers> bah, blasted estate agents not updating their websites
[16:13] <dwatkins> daubers: I had that when I last moved house, was immeisely frustrating
[16:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: I think you mean Epic Brian ;)
[16:14] <daubers> dwatkins: I've just asked about 6 properties with an estate agent. All on their website saying "Must be viewed" all sold!
[16:14] <daubers> dwatkins: Chap didn't seem very impressed when I asked if they actually had any properties currently for sale
[16:18] <dwatkins> daubers: yeah, they're still not moving with the times (don't get me started on the film industry...) although there are a few who are better than others.
[16:18] <dwatkins> I gather rightmove and espc are sites that estate agents register with, but they might be worth a look
[16:20] <daubers> dwatkins: They have the same problem but tend to be further out of date
[16:20] <dwatkins> ah that's a shame
[16:20] <daubers> They both depend on the estate agents updating things
[16:23] <popey> odd
[16:23] <popey> my keyboad now has a time delay
[16:23]  * popey pokes gord 
[16:24] <dwatkins> USB or wifi, popey?
[16:24] <popey> usb
[16:24] <gord> hello
[16:24] <dwatkins> I assume you've tried reconnecting it
[16:24] <gord> what did i do?
[16:24] <gord> you can't blame me for that!
[16:24] <popey> wondered if you had done aything to mitigate hud :D
[16:24] <popey> i have dwatkins
[16:24] <popey> reboted and its like tping through teacle
[16:24] <popey> ^ seee
[16:24] <dwatkins> I vaguely remember having something similar a long while back due to a noisy device on the USB bus
[16:25] <popey> hmmm
[16:25] <popey> could be dodgy cable
[16:25] <popey> have moved to directly plugged in, much better
[16:25] <popey> bum
[16:25] <dwatkins> ah, hub was bad?
[16:26] <dwatkins> I have a rather nice R2D2 hub which I barely use, but it sits on my desk and looks neat ;)
[16:26] <popey> hmmm
[16:26] <oimon> i still use hub when i mean switch
[16:26] <popey> its not a hub
[16:26] <popey> its an extension cable
[16:26] <oimon> a coupler?
[16:26] <popey> hmm?
[16:27] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I should get a new testmeter
[16:27] <dwatkins> haha, this pricing is insane for a multimeter: £0.01 + £4.59 shipping
[16:28] <oimon> how much for 2?
[16:28] <dwatkins> heh, strangely the shipping doubles as well, oimon
[16:28] <kirrus> Happens a lot in amazon.. you find books at the same silly pricing, because amazon fix shipping costs
[16:28] <oimon> well i am surprised
[16:29] <dwatkins> quite
[16:35] <popey> hmmm
[16:35] <popey> whole pc feels slow
[16:35] <AlanBell> try upgrading to Ubuntu
[16:35] <popey> it is ubuntu silly
[16:36]  * AlanBell is silly
[16:36] <daubers> popey: Give up the dope?
[16:38] <popey> ooooo
[16:38] <popey> if I have an external display mirrored with internal display it slows the machine to a crawl
[16:38] <oimon> weird bug
[16:38] <popey> disable external display it speeds up
[16:39] <davmor2> popey: what gfx is in it?
[16:39] <popey> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
[16:39] <popey> sandybridge i7
[16:39] <popey> yup reproducable by doing xrandr --output HDMI2 --off
[16:40] <popey> xrandr --output HDMI2 --auto
[16:40] <davmor2> popey: that could be why it's better than the 915 but not miraculous ;)
[16:40] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/824045/
[16:40] <AlanBell> I don'T know why you would ever want mirrored on
[16:41] <popey> because you want to look at your laptop and not break your neck to look at the screen behind you
[16:41] <popey> when giving a presentation
[16:41] <AlanBell> presenter console ftw
[16:41] <popey> who says its libreoffice?
[16:41] <davmor2> AlanBell: presentations, dual tv demos
[16:42] <popey> note internal at 60Hz, HDMI is 24Hz
[16:43] <AlanBell> ok, if doing a demo on a projector and there is no aux monitor output from the projector to put a screen on
[16:44] <popey> my use case is I am recording my desktop with an externel device
[16:45] <daubers> popey: Did you manage to get rid of your tints?
[16:45] <AlanBell> fair enough
[16:46] <popey> no
[16:46] <shauno> recording with an external device?  and I thought I was messy doing demos in VMs so I could let the host record the screen
[16:47] <popey> see my G+
[16:47] <davmor2> popey, daubers: sure just getting a regular hair dye will eradicate popey's tints?
[16:47] <shauno> you rock sometimes.  popey.com/plus was a blind guess
[16:48] <aquarius> popey, did you do popey.com/+ as well?
[16:48] <oimon> finally saw that tv advert with popey in yesterday
[16:49] <daubers> popey: That's a colour negative, not a tint
[16:49] <shauno> the vegas one?
[16:49] <oimon> shauno: i think so
[16:49] <shauno> hm, or maybe not.  google is determined not to let me sign in with two accounts today
[16:49] <oimon> i was talking to my wife during the ad break, and out of the corner of my eye i saw popey throwing cash around
[16:50] <daubers> popey: Can you imagebin the settings you've got for the blackmagic card in control panel?
[16:50] <daubers> popey: Also did you try it with another HDMI source (DVD player or something)?
[16:51] <popey> yes, and no, not yet
[16:51] <shauno> okay, I take back the rocking bit.  popey.com/plus takes me to the wrong popey+ lol
[16:51] <popey> i dont have another hdmi source handy
[16:51] <daubers> Ah, ok :)
[16:51] <popey> shauno: for the migration ☺
[16:52] <daubers> I've asked the people who know more than me and they recon it's either your bm settings or the source
[16:53] <shauno> and yes the fsf spam is annoying.  I specifically cancelled my membership because all I ever see them do is troll
[16:53] <popey> shauno: fixed
[16:53] <popey> daubers: there are no colour settings
[16:53] <popey> its like the least useful control panel applet ever
[16:54] <daubers> popey: Screenshot the lot please :)
[16:54] <popey> ok
[16:58] <popey> done
[16:59] <gord> oh you actually have the x220 now popey?
[16:59] <daubers> Hmmm
[16:59] <davmor2> It's time to play the music.....
[17:00] <popey> no gord
[17:00] <popey> i have an i7 desktop
[17:00] <gord> ah
[17:01] <popey> the x220 left china today
[17:01] <gord> iirc they got it to me the same week i ordered
[17:02] <daubers> popey: Daft question, the machine you're using as the source, does that still have Windows on it?
[17:02] <gord> ha! a patch i wrote for totem fixes a bug on the redhat bugzilla. now they *have* to take it!
[17:04] <popey> daubers: no
[17:04] <daubers> tried the output from that source on a TV?
[17:04] <daubers> (people here think it's probably the source)
[17:04] <popey> well. i can plug that hdmi cable into this screen
[17:05] <popey> and toggle inputs
[17:05] <daubers> That might show if it's the output from that machine
[17:06] <davmor2> gord: don't be daft someone at red hat will just rewrite it ;)
[17:08] <popey> hmm
[17:08] <popey> looks fine
[17:08] <bigcalm> Hi peeps!
[17:08] <daubers> hmmm
[17:08] <gord> davmor2, whatever gets the bug fixed :) but to fix the other bug, they have to fix mine too ;)
[17:08] <popey> but
[17:08] <bigcalm> Amazing how much more productive I am when IRC is hidden from view
[17:08] <popey> its at 1080p24
[17:08] <popey> on the capture card
[17:08] <popey> it's at 1080p60 on the display
[17:08] <daubers> hmm
[17:08] <popey> i have another idea
[17:09] <popey> i am not connecting the output of the intensity to a screen
[17:09] <popey> gonna do that
[17:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: and then you had to come on here and ruin it for every one ;)
[17:09] <bigcalm> \o/
[17:10] <bigcalm> I've had to rebuild a dormant machine just to get windows 2008 server running. All just to run MS SQL Server. I don't like that part of this project.
[17:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm sorry you lost me a windows!
[17:11] <bigcalm> I feel rather lost myself
[17:11] <bigcalm> Buying ram from PC World is a rip off as well
[17:11] <bigcalm> 60 quid for 2 gb :(
[17:13] <davmor2> bigcalm: what ram?
[17:13] <bigcalm> DDR PC2700
[17:13] <bigcalm> 29.99 per 1gb stick
[17:13] <davmor2> That's why
[17:14] <bigcalm> I was in a rush
[17:14] <bigcalm> Aye, nobody uses it any more
[17:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: no it's DDR if it was DDR3 it would of been much cheaper
[17:15] <bigcalm> And yet the mobo wouldn't be able to take it
[17:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm assuming you can expense it anyway?
[17:16] <bigcalm> Well, maybe
[17:17] <bigcalm> Turns out the machine it was for didn't work any better with it anyway
[17:17] <bigcalm> That was my old workstation
[17:17] <bigcalm> I've resorted to using my old mythtv box
[17:17] <bigcalm> Which I haven't used since getting VM cable
[17:18] <daubers> popey: If you're still stuck in the morning I can get through to someone at BM support who's generally quite good
[17:19] <popey> i have sent a support request via their site daubers
[17:19] <popey> but thanks ☺
[17:19] <daubers> Ah :) Chap called Callum we normally deal with
[17:51] <brobostigon> helo everyone,
[17:58] <dwatkins> hi brobostigon
[17:58] <brobostigon> hi dwatkins
[18:00] <dwatkins> I've learned that there are hybrid HDD/SSD drives, and am watching comparisons of them on youtube and reading-up on them, looks like it might be a good compromise between speed, capacity and cost.
[18:03] <directhex> dwatkins, SPOF though
[18:05] <dwatkins> directhex: it's a laptop, though
[18:06] <directhex> hm
[18:06] <dwatkins> I backup the disk to an external device periodically, and anything properly important is also outside
[18:06] <directhex> i guess :/
[18:06] <dwatkins> I just want more gigglebytes on my laptop ;)
[18:52] <brobostigon> it is sad isnt it, when all bbc south have to resort to, is a missing lama, news must be pretty bad.
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "I need more gigglebytes, ROFL"
[18:53] <brobostigon> or news is very scarce.
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: No, all is well in the world. Except for that llama
[18:54] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, ummm, well.
[18:56] <AlanBell> missing llama!
[18:56] <popey> brobostigon: this is why my wife prefers local news to london news
[18:57] <popey> she said to me a while ago she doesn't like london news because it's all rape, murder.. bad news
[18:57] <popey> whereas local news is all "a donkey escaped, but it was found.. here's a donkey picture.."
[18:57] <gord> texas news is the best, its just "who got shot today"
[18:57] <brobostigon> popey: so she prefers less importent, less significant news?
[18:57] <popey> define important/significant
[18:58] <popey> I'd say it was pretty significant to the llama owner
[18:58] <AlanBell> . . . from the perspective of a Llama
[18:58] <brobostigon> but not generally importent nor significant, except for a few enthusiasts.
[18:58] <popey> its interesting
[18:58] <popey> "Oh, didnt know they had llamas there"
[18:59] <popey> "Kids, look its a llama"
[18:59] <brobostigon> hmmm,
[18:59] <popey> "whats a llama"
[18:59] <popey> "Mummy, what's rape"
[18:59] <popey> etc
[18:59] <brobostigon> it is maybe easier to explain what a llama is.
[18:59] <AlanBell> real news like this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16812545
[19:00] <popey> that is indeed "real" news
[19:00] <popey> I am going out for curry tonight
[19:00] <popey> I think this calls for a monster spicy one
[19:00] <brobostigon> enjoy :)
[19:00]  * AlanBell isn't sure if that is news
[19:00] <dwatkins> haha, that's great, AlanBell
[19:01] <AlanBell> my kids call it hedghog bread because they don't think it looks like a tiger either
[19:02] <brobostigon> news, a bread being renamed, hmmm.
[19:02] <popey> i believe these are called "feel good" stories
[19:03] <popey> or "marketing"
[19:03] <AlanBell> taste good stories
[19:03] <brobostigon> yes.
[19:04] <brobostigon> though, it does depend alot on perspective, as popey pointed out, as to what is importent.
[19:05] <AlanBell> it does, all kinds of things can be news or not news to different people
[19:07] <brobostigon> for me for example, the autism part of the DSM being reavaluated, is news.
[19:07] <brobostigon> most people, wouldnt think that is news.
[19:08] <AlanBell> and in other news (or not) Ubuntu Precise Alpha 2 is on Thursday
[19:08] <brobostigon> also.
[19:09] <popey> shave-o-clock

[19:22] <davmor2> so everyone want a laugh what size is you ~/.thunderbird folder
[19:23] <AlanBell> 19G
[19:23] <brobostigon> dont use thunderbird, so ir wont exist.
[19:24] <AlanBell> davmor2: now you show us yours
[19:24] <brobostigon> nope, no such folder.
[19:25] <davmor2> AlanBell: 2.7GB nothing like yours :)  but it is still a ridiculous size considering most people use imap
[19:26] <AlanBell> davmor2: did you think 2.7GB was quite big up to a few minutes ago? :)
[19:27] <davmor2> AlanBell: best of it is there is no backup/restore feature like there is in evolution so you have to move the entire folder from one machine to another or waste days of hdd activity downloading all the mail afresh
[19:27] <davmor2> AlanBell: No I thought it was disgusting that it took up so much room
[19:28] <AlanBell> there are few things cheaper than bits on disks
[19:29] <shauno> I dunno; 19GB would be almost a fifth of my drive
[19:29] <davmor2> AlanBell: I know but still that is a ridiculous amount of space,  evo and claws with the same mail take up less than a 1GB
[19:30] <popey> 8.8G	.thunderbird/
[19:31] <AlanBell> smallest HDD money can buy is 160GB for less than £50, so all my mail is occupying less than £10 worth of disk space
[19:31] <popey> davmor2: even with imap I have it download all mail
[19:31] <davmor2> popey: I have to in order to filter by BODY text
[19:32] <davmor2> popey: if you disable downloading you can't filter by body something evo managed grrr hate Thunderbird
[19:32] <popey> why would you not download?
[19:33] <popey> come on ups, send me my laptop
[19:33] <popey> how far away is china?
[19:33] <popey> sladen: hop on your brompton, there's a good lad, get my laptop
[19:33] <AlanBell> I want all my mail locally and on the server
[19:34] <AlanBell> wish thunderbird had a better full text index
[19:35] <davmor2> My biggest single gripe with TB though is if you hit the N key to go to the next unread email if it needs to change folder it throws up and error window with the error ping asking if you are sure
[19:36] <aquarius> what's the best way to convert video files in mkv to mp4 on a headless ubuntu box? (I'd like to not have to care about words like "framerate" or "keyframes" here, so something which allows me to specify a "preset" or similar, or doesn't need that at all, would be good.)
[19:36] <brobostigon> i am happy with k9 on android, and gmail's web interface.
[19:38] <shauno> I was surprised my laptop only took 3 days to get here from china
[19:39] <davmor2> aquarius: copy it over to a desktop machine modify it and re-upload it?  I'm guessing that isn't the answer you were after though
[19:39] <aquarius> davmor2, it is not, because there are more files than I have disc space.
[19:39] <shauno> I thought I had screenshots of the tracking page, but can't find them now; I remember getting slightly worried when it stopped in kazahkstan for half a day :/
[19:40] <davmor2> aquarius: I'm assuming it will need to be some mencoder gibberish at a guess but I'm sure someone will let you know
[19:41] <etneg_> anyone working on ubuntu artwork
[19:43] <davmor2> aquarius: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MEncoder#Encoding_a_multi_audio_.2F_multi_language_MKV_video_to_an_MP4_with_different_audio_streams
[19:44] <davmor2> aquarius: I'm assuming you might be able to simplify it a little but it should give you a rough idea
[19:44] <etneg_> so anyone?
[19:46] <davmor2> aquarius: or this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1607484  you may want to switch off the delete the mkv file I'm not sure
[19:46] <davmor2> etneg_:  see if there is an  #ubuntu-artwork channel
[19:47] <etneg_> i am there already
[19:47] <davmor2> etneg_: they should be the people to ask then
[19:47] <etneg_> but wnted to see if there was anyone working on anything in here
[19:47] <etneg_> like on vectors and such
[19:47] <davmor2> not me
[19:49] <aquarius> davmor2, all those scripts are horrible things that make me care about stuff :(
[19:49] <popey> aquarius: I have awesome ffmpeg powers
[19:49] <davmor2> aquarius: sorry dude that was the best I could come up with
[19:50] <aquarius> popey, the point is that I do not ;)
[19:50] <popey> i am off out for curry. I will solve your problem tomorrow
[19:50] <popey> *whoosh*
[19:50] <aquarius> heh
[19:50] <gord> and like a leaf on the breeze, popeyman was gone
[19:50] <davmor2> aquarius: just give popey ssh access and let him fix it :)
[19:50] <popey> well, once launchpad builds by sodding ffmpeg
[19:50] <popey> sorry, libav
[19:51] <davmor2> popey: don't break libav again
[19:51] <popey> ttfn
[19:51] <gord> aquarius, because no one has mentioned it i think, Handbrake has presets built in and its job is to convert <thing> to mp4. works well enough for me
[19:51] <gord> has a CLI version
[19:52] <etneg_> alright
[19:52] <aquarius> gord, yeah, I'm just checking handbrake now to see if it's in the repos :)
[19:52] <gord> its not ;)
[19:52] <gord> but they have their own ppa
[19:52] <aquarius> bah. why's it not in the repos? :(
[19:52] <aquarius> ppa, though, so that's not too bad
[19:53] <davmor2> aquarius: not in repos gord didn't know it had a cli base, won't it try and install all the gui stuff it needs too?
[19:54] <aquarius> no oneiric version of handbrake in the ppa :(
[19:54] <gord> can't remember if it has separate packages or not, but generally in those cases, i don't really care if extra gui things get installed at the same time, i have more than 200mb free disk space
[19:54] <gord> aquarius, they basically compile all the libraries in, just run whatever version its built for
[19:55] <aquarius> gord, so just grab the natty deb and dpkg -i it?
[19:55] <aquarius> I mightily fear doing stuff like that
[19:55] <gord> or just run the natty ppa version
[19:55] <gord> or wait for popey tomorrow
[19:56] <gord> its all ffmpeg under the hood
[19:57] <aquarius> well, the natty version installed, anyway
[19:57] <aquarius> let's give it a try :)
[20:00] <aquarius> seems to run, too
[20:01] <aquarius> assuming the result isn't totally pony, looks like handbrake is the way
[20:01] <gord> if the result is crap you prolly just need to select a profile - it has high quality ones, iphone ones, things like that
[20:01] <aquarius> ya. No PS3 profile, sadly
[20:01] <aquarius> I'm trying it with normal profile right now
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> aquarius: PS3 plays High profile MP4 fine
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> aquarius: up to level 3 or 4
[20:02] <aquarius> 15 minutes to do one video, mind, which means that it's gonna take a day and a half :)
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> Time for Ivy Bridge (on-CPU H264 encoding acceleration!)
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> (on-gpu? it's the same chip)
[20:03] <gord> yeah the ps3 does a bunch of formats. even wmv if you enable it. its just picky about the containers
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> I love my TV, it eats mkv :)
[20:05] <gord> i eat ready for breakfast
[20:05]  * gord could sit and quite it crowd all day
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> quite..
[20:12] <zleap> AlanBell, thank you for the e-mail
[20:12] <davmor2> few more kb to AlanBell 's .thunderbird folder :D
[20:18] <zleap> :)
[20:20] <aquarius> bah! handbrake default output not supported on the ps3.
[20:21] <aquarius> aha part (ii): there is a PS3 preset. Win.
[20:22] <aquarius> wish I had an ubuntu tv :)
[20:22]  * aquarius wants *another* 15 minutes
[20:37] <dwatkins> aquarius: I ended up using fuppes to serve video to my PS3
[20:37] <aquarius> nfi what fuppes is. :) I'm using rygel.
[20:38] <dwatkins> fair enough
[20:38] <dwatkins> same kind of thing, by the look of it
[20:39] <directhex> i serve straight to my TV
[20:40] <dwatkins> yeah, I do that too, directhex, with serviio
[20:40] <directhex> sadly you can't use the same upnp server to serve a samsung tv and a ps3, because upnp is bullpoop
[20:40] <dwatkins> it requires transcoding, though
[20:40] <gord> xbmc is what i've settled on, serves all my needs well, has a python plugin api so i write plugins to play internet vidoes too :)
[20:40] <dwatkins> gord: I look forward to getting myself a Raspberry Pi on which to run XBMC.
[20:41] <directhex> sony and samsung require slightly different incompatible http headers in their upnp payloads, or they refuse playback
[20:41] <aquarius> grargh! handbrake cli with PS3 preset still not working on my ps3!
[20:41] <aquarius> "the data type is unsupported".
[20:41] <aquarius> off to google
[20:44] <directhex> aquarius, it is probably rygel and not the file that's at fault
[20:44] <aquarius> what's the point in having a ps3 preset that doesn't work on the ps3?? why? why would you do this?
[20:44] <smittix> Evening all
[20:44] <aquarius> directhex, hm.
[20:44] <aquarius> directhex, surely rygel isn't altering the file?
[20:44] <directhex> aquarius, to test, put it on a usb stick & try to play from there
[20:44] <aquarius> directhex, I mean, other stuff from rygel is working perfectly
[20:44] <directhex> aquarius, doesn't matter what the file content is. matters what bollocks http headers get sent along with it
[20:45] <aquarius> rygel is happily sending a zillion other files correctly, so it's not broken always
[20:45] <aquarius> maybe I should encode to something other than mp4 and see if that helps
[20:46] <directhex> aquarius, i get that error message on my ps3 when mediatomb is set to send extra samsung-required headers. but it's fine if i set the sony headers back. chances are it's lying when blaming the file - more likely it's the metadata
[20:47] <aquarius> right
[20:47] <aquarius> what throws me, though, is that rygel's fine on all the other files
[20:47] <aquarius> so it's not just bust
[20:47] <directhex> what mimetype is it sending for the mp4?
[20:49] <aquarius> don't know
[20:49] <aquarius> how does one establish this?
[20:49] <directhex> packet sniffing! \o/
[20:49] <directhex> upnp is bullshit
[20:52] <aquarius> I need a upnp browser which prints out the urls it's using I think
[20:52] <aquarius> and the only one I have is gupnp-av-cp, which does not
[20:56] <aquarius> is upnp all over udp? rygel doesn't seem to have a port open
[21:00] <zleap> what does XBMC stand for ?
[21:00] <mgdm> X-Box Media Centre, originally
[21:00] <mgdm> since that's what it ran on to start with
[21:00] <zleap> and its now ported to Linix
[21:00] <mgdm> I'm not sure if they've done an MMX and said "It doesn't actually mean anything any more", though
[21:01] <gordonjcp> well
[21:01] <zleap> ah okj
[21:01] <mgdm> well, it always ran on Linux, on the original XBox
[21:01] <gordonjcp> since it no longer runs on Xboxes...
[21:02] <zleap> i just keep seeing it mentioned and then try and work out how it relates to discussions on Linux forums
[21:02] <ali1234> upnp is a mix of udp broadcasts and http for the actual file serving
[21:02] <zleap> ah so it ran on LInux anyway so look ing at the above they are makingone for the raspberry pi
[21:03] <ali1234> they already ported it
[21:06] <gordonjcp> mgdm: I thought it ran on the Xbox OS on a "real" Xbox?
[21:06] <mgdm> gordonjcp: Oh - i had assumed it was on Linux - probably wrong
[21:07] <directhex> i think xbmc was compiled with a stolen xbox sdk
[21:07] <directhex> hence why it was only downloadable in binary form from dodgy sites
[21:09] <gord> mgdm, yeah they have, its just "xbmc" now, it doesn't stand for anything
[21:09] <gord> which is why i prefer to pronounce it zuhbuhmuc
[21:09] <ahayzen> Hi ... I'm having a problem where my system locks up and freezes when 'processing triggers for hicolor-theme' occurs via updating. I have been plagued with HDD errors before and suspect something has corrupted. However all the icons in the launcher are now confused and I cannot run update manager as it freezes the system (HDD goes 100% and system locks up). Any ideas? Many thanks Andy
[21:10] <ali1234> time to buy a new hard drive?
[21:10]  * bigcalm pokes spotify and virginmedia
[21:10] <gord> ahayzen, yeah it does sound like your hard-drive is dead, done a file system check?
[21:10] <bigcalm> One of them is not behaving
[21:10] <ali1234> check dmesg for ata errors
[21:10] <ahayzen> ali1234: tried that ... and that one also corrupted
[21:11] <gord> changed the sata cable? reseated it?
[21:11] <ali1234> bad ram or power supply then
[21:11] <ahayzen> it said that my filesystem was already mounted :(
[21:11] <ali1234> or possibly video card
[21:11] <ahayzen> ali1234: replaced both RAM and power supply before and i think it is the SATA controllers
[21:11] <smittix> ahayzen: Tried looking at the SMART Data in Disk utility?
[21:11] <ali1234> unlikely
[21:12] <ali1234> possible i suppose
[21:12] <ahayzen> I had this problem before where the HDD corrupted but i solved it before... however just after running update manager everything froze and HDD went to 100%....
[21:12] <ahayzen> all i want is for the update manager to actually work and my icons to return to normal... any ideas?
[21:12] <ali1234> what video card is it?
[21:13] <ahayzen> Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS 320 MB
[21:13] <ali1234> oh...
[21:13] <ali1234> are you using the nvidia driver, or nouveau (the default one)
[21:13] <ahayzen> smittix: in SMART it says everything is fine
[21:13] <ahayzen> ali1234: Running Nvidia driver
[21:14] <ahayzen> how do you do a filesystem check on a mounted volume?
[21:14] <ali1234> you don't
[21:14] <ahayzen> so how do u check the root partition?
[21:14] <ahayzen> livecd?
[21:14] <ali1234> sudo touch /forcefsck
[21:14] <ali1234> then reboot
[21:15] <ahayzen> ah ok
[21:15] <ali1234> at least that's how it used to work
[21:15] <ahayzen> so the 'processing triggers for hicolor-theme' is there anyway to remove and reinstall this? ... Cause it becomes stuck at this point
[21:16] <ali1234> sudo apt-get purge hicolor-theme
[21:16] <ali1234> but i very much doubt that will help
[21:16] <ahayzen> ok i'll try it ... if i disappear it cause the PC has frozen ;) lol
[21:16] <ali1234> and it will probably try to remove all of ubuntu-desktop or something
[21:16] <ahayzen> hmmm ...really?
[21:16] <gordonjcp> ah
[21:16] <ali1234> hang on
[21:17] <gordonjcp> the Debian Descent Into Madness
[21:17] <gordonjcp> when the package manager gets a little confused and goes on a shotgun rampage
[21:17] <ali1234> !info hicolor-theme
[21:17] <ahayzen> 'apt-cache depends hicolor-theme
[21:17] <ahayzen> E: No packages found'
[21:17] <ali1234> huh.
[21:17] <ahayzen> must be called something else?
[21:17] <ali1234> does it actually say hicolor-icon-theme
[21:17] <ali1234> !info hicolor-icon-theme
[21:18] <mgdm> gordonjcp: given that it deals with packages, I'm sure there's a "going postal" pun in there *somewhere*
[21:18] <ali1234> that would explain why your icons went funny
[21:18] <gordonjcp> mgdm: well yeah
[21:18] <ahayzen> well when i fire up nautilus it doesn't use the normal home folder in the launcher... it creates another icon with the nautilus icon
[21:18] <ali1234> and yes removing that package will remove ubuntu-desktop and a load of other stuff
[21:18] <ahayzen> ok
[21:19] <ali1234> like unity
[21:19] <ali1234> metacity... light-themes... pretty much everything really
[21:19] <ali1234> you'll be stuck at a shell prompt so don't do that
[21:19] <ahayzen> i get 'E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem. ' at the moment after running 'sudo apt-get update' ... but when i run that it then becomes stuck at the processing section
[21:20] <ali1234> andnothing on dmesg?
[21:21] <ahayzen> erm maybe?
[21:24] <ahayzen> ali1234: I've found a bit tht doesn't look too healthy ... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/824448/
[21:24] <ali1234> ata errors
[21:24] <ahayzen> ali1234: Bad right?
[21:24] <ali1234> yep, your harddrive is bad, or the cable, or the motherboard or power supply
[21:24] <ali1234> or maybe the RAM but that's very very unlikely
[21:25] <ali1234> or alternatively there's a bug in the driver for your chipset but tht is rather unlikely too
[21:25] <ahayzen> well i replaced the RAM recently after having an issue with it (it had some errors so i got it replaced and new is fine)
[21:25] <ahayzen> i think either HDD, Cable or SATA Controller
[21:26] <ahayzen> so is there no easy way to solve the hicolor issue? ... other than formatting and starting again?
[21:26] <ali1234> even that won't help
[21:26] <ali1234> it will just happen again
[21:26] <ali1234> you have a hardware error there
[21:27] <ahayzen> :(
[21:27] <ahayzen> it really odd how it is completely fine until that specific process is run though
[21:31] <ahayzen> ali1234: Thanks for your help :)
[21:32] <ali1234> well if you have just a few bad sectors then nothing bad will happen until you try to read or write them
[21:32] <ahayzen> can i like block the OS from using them?
[21:32] <ahayzen> if i could find the range of the bad blocks
[21:33] <ali1234> yeah. just format the drive and it will hide them. then some more break and it will happen again
[21:33] <gord> you can use the program "badblocks" to find and mark them
[21:33] <gord> the OS will then ignore them
[21:34] <ahayzen> ok... so the data inside the bad blocks is 'dead' ...
[21:34] <ahayzen> gord: can badblocks scan over a partition?
[21:35] <gord> its been a while since i used it, you'll have to do some research i'm afraid
[21:35] <ahayzen> gord: Ok thx :)
[21:37] <ahayzen> what about 'smartctl'?
[21:37] <ahayzen> hmm but how do i install another app if my apt has mucked up?
[21:41] <ahayzen> 'sudo badblocks -v /dev/sda1 > bad-blocks' seems to be doing something ... ali1234: gord: Thanks for your help, I'll see if I can solve the isssue :)
[21:44] <jacobw> 'apt-get -f install'
[21:44] <gord> ahayzen, i think you might want the fsck version of badblocks
[21:44] <gord> ahayzen, so it marks the blocks as broken
[21:44] <gord> i think its a command line option of fsck that runs badblocks itself, then uses the output to mark the filesystem
[21:45] <ahayzen> i was thinking of running
[21:45] <ahayzen> 'sudo fsck -t ext3 -l bad-blocks /dev/hda1'
[21:45] <ahayzen> but for ext4 after and sda1?... apparently it reads the file output for the errors and then fixes them.... but the blog may be wrong...
[21:47] <ahayzen> gord: Thanks for the guidance
[21:48] <gord> np
[21:49] <ahayzen> ok so say i do manage to fix the bad sectors .... then what would I do to fix the dpkg errors?
[22:08] <ali1234> just do what it said before
[22:08] <ahayzen> ali1234: Ok ... and will it sort it out even if the file like half exists?
[22:08] <ali1234> maybe
[22:08] <ali1234> it will only deteriorate over time anyway
[22:09] <ahayzen> ali1234: I see ... The only slight flaw in the plan is that i haven't found no bad sectors yet (only scanned sda1 though [root partition] still got to scan sda6 [/home])
[22:10] <ali1234> i dunno
[22:10] <ali1234> i'd just chuck that drive
[22:10] <ali1234> or at the very least format it 8 times
[22:10] <ahayzen> ali1234: Got another 'dead' HDD in the PC so may switch the SATA cables over and see if i can resurrect that disk
[22:10] <ali1234> in a different computer
[22:10] <ali1234> and if i got no errors on any of the 8 formats, i might consider reusing it
[22:11] <ahayzen> ali1234: Ok
[22:13] <ahayzen> ali1234: Thanks for ur help again. I'll have a think about the options and see if i can debug anything at my end. But in the meantime i'll get back to doing coursework :(
[22:14] <czajkowski> .c
[22:21] <AlanBell> uddles
[22:22] <AlanBell> ftfy
[22:22]  * brobostigon haz chocolate milkshake, with abit of rum,
[22:32] <directhex> rum \o/
[22:32] <directhex> i have no rum :'(
[22:32] <brobostigon> :(
[22:32] <brobostigon> good night,
[22:36] <bigcalm> Why's the rum gone?
[22:37] <bigcalm> Oh great. This OLD version of PHPMailer doesn't know what to do with SSL. Lets hope the client doesn't give me SMTP details for an SSL connection
[23:32] <popey> pip pip
[23:37] <bigcalm> Wot ho
[23:39] <popey> i may be a ickle nit tiddly
[23:40] <bigcalm> That's a good state to be in on a Tuesday evening
[23:41] <popey> mmm
[23:41] <directhex> time for rayman. sonic pissed me off
[23:42] <bigcalm> So glad I started playing rayman at last
[23:42] <bigcalm> directhex: it's quite enjoyable on the Wii
[23:48] <directhex> bigcalm: it's a beautiful game. 480p wouldn't do it justice IMHO. nothing shows off HD like cel-drawn animation
[23:50] <bigcalm> CBA to re-buy it ;)
[23:50] <directhex> grrrrrrrrrrrrr
[23:50] <directhex> see latest tweet
[23:51] <bigcalm> o.O
[23:52] <bigcalm> I recall playing Thief for a little bit, it crashed, I never revisited it
[23:52] <bigcalm> I do like sneaking about
[23:53] <AlanBell> directhex: I think you will have to speak to your mummy or daddy to get that fixed
[23:54] <bigcalm> Heh
[23:54] <bigcalm> It bugs me that my VM boxes still pester me for the parental PIN now and then
[23:55] <AlanBell> I fully intend one day to find out what the pin is on my sky box so I can watch films before 9pm
[23:55] <bigcalm> 1234 is the standard on VM
[23:56] <ali1234> gee, i sure would like to try unity 5.2
[23:56] <ali1234> unfortunately my apt is totally screwed and crashes when i try to update
[23:57] <ali1234> but the bug cannot be reported because i have out of date packages
[23:57] <gordonjcp> ali1234: it's the Debian Death Spiral
[23:57] <ali1234> does debian even use apport?
[23:57] <ali1234> i thought it was an ubuntu thing
[23:57] <gordonjcp> if Ubuntu used a sane package management system that would happen less frequently
[23:58] <ali1234> like what, rpm? LOOOOOOOOL
[23:58] <gordonjcp> as it is we're stuck with reinstalling weekly because apt drops its guts
[23:58] <gordonjcp> this doesn't happen with ports
[23:59] <hamitron> .txz ;/
[23:59] <directhex> pfft ports
[23:59] <directhex> AlanBell: i *am* mummy or daddy. why can't i see what games i'm forbidding to my almost-child?