[00:00] directhex, you still not worked out if you are mummy, or daddy? [00:00] :| [00:00] i'd like to know in advance which game is the story of a plucky woman's adventures in the underground of an oppressive dictatorial space army, and which one is a side-scrolling homoerotic ps1 game. it seems if you enable parental controls, you can't know what a game is until you launch it [00:01] what games are those? [00:02] metroid and streets of rage? [00:02] directhex: they both sound okay actually [00:02] directhex: ps3 roulette [00:02] I reckon "parental controls" just cause more problems than they solve [00:03] parents like to think they are in control [00:03] surely you do that by actually watching your children [00:03] gordonjcp: note they are not called "child controls" [00:04] AlanBell: a long time ago when a friend of mine was getting pressure to set up a PC for his two stepsons, one was 9 and one was 13 or so [00:04] and all the web filtering stuff he had found was crap, and mostly didn't block objectionable content and *did* block CBeebies [00:04] so we set him up with a transparent proxy [00:05] my kids have no filtering and each have a computer [00:05] i was building my own computers at 13 [00:05] and the house rules were, stay off things you think mum and dad would be annoyed about, and it's all logged [00:05] I can ssh into their machines and do "sudo halt" remotely [00:05] of course if they figured out how to crack root and destroy the evidence, fair play to them [00:05] shows initiative [00:05] agreed [00:06] or activate a firewall [00:06] ;) [00:06] "if not duffers then won't drown" and all that [00:06] ali1234: beyond good and evil hd, and cho aniki [00:06] I liked Ikaruga [00:06] I never get drunk enough to play it any more though [00:07] Hekki. [00:09] cho aniki is the same kind of genre. but with more of this: http://v2.onipepper.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/choaniki_011.jpg [00:10] Haha, I remember that [00:13] right, restart for new unity time :) [00:17] [Jono Bacon] Unity 5.2: Testers Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/01/unity-5-2-testers-needed/ [00:17] too sloooow man [00:18] Fnar [00:19] I have a feeling this "push into the edge" is going to break my Synergy setup [00:20] My desktop breaks over the left edge to my Windows box [00:20] it's already annoying the hell out of me [00:20] the stickyness between monitors is really high [00:21] Isn't there a tweak UI for it? [00:21] at least i can start things on the second monitor now, that's an improvement [00:21] Looks like I'll be xfce for a long time yet then [00:21] it would be much better if the launcher was on the outside edge of each monitor though [00:21] Maybe it would be good if "super" summoned the launcher and not just opened the dash [00:21] it does. hold it down [00:22] lol now it also opens a huge windows with a list of keyboard shortcuts [00:29] O [00:29] M [00:29] G [00:29] My schema created tables correctly [00:29] I'm one step closer to going to bed! [00:35] this checkbox tool could really use a progress bar that tells you how many more tests are left [00:40] Ominous. Main RaspberryPi website (.org) has gone down. [00:40] * Oli smells a launch afoot [00:40] Now I *can't* go to bed. [00:40] it's been going down all day [00:41] You would say that... You just want me to go to sleep so you can buy my Raspi [00:42] i'm going to get a maple mini or a beagle bone instead [00:47] The bone looks interesting but they (BBB, Arduino, et al) are all so cut-down [00:47] my final verdict as far as parental controls go: 360 > wii > ps3 [00:47] Oli: at least the beaglebone is a real cpu, unlike pi [00:47] although the gpu is weaker [00:47] and it comes with documetation [00:47] omap4? [00:47] Pah. I'll take drivers over documentation any day. [00:47] the pi actually is a real CPU [00:48] oh, sorry, yes, the pi has the screaming power of an *iphone 1* as its main processor [00:48] but the CPU is a proprietary broadcom design which runs rtos, and linux only has access to virtual devices [00:48] the core that runs linux is slow, the "GPU" is actually a full CPU and is probably more powerful, but you can never use it [00:49] BCM2835 is a GPU with enough leftover silicon to implement a low-end armv6 core [00:49] that's is absolutely not true [00:49] i spent a few hours today hexdumping the "GPU" driver [00:51] it runs ThreadX rtos, has full access to all hardware, and present software virtual drivers to the arm core through a mmu mapping interface [00:53] practically every one of the open source drivers in the arm kernel is a MT_DEVICE coupled with a user space library that serialises high level API calls [00:53] and there is not even documentation of these high level interfaces [00:53] broadcom don't do docs. [00:54] i have no idea how anyone decided to buy their crap [00:54] you are effectively running user mode linux [00:54] i've said before & i'll say again that pi's cpu choice is a joke [00:54] beaglebone proves it [00:54] agreed [00:55] it's a pity the beagle bone doesn't have video out, but meh, i have a computer with a fast graphics card that poops over any of this stuff [00:55] from the general-purpose perspective, they'll just see pi back-to-front. i.e. the ARM1176JZF-S with some magic black-box gpu at the back [00:56] despite the gpu being in charge of everything including the proprietary bootloader [00:56] the one good thing about it is it is utterly impossible to write software that isn't standards compliant [00:56] you *have* to use opengl etc because there is literally nothing else at all [00:57] I think you're being a little harsh against it, given the price is that of a fairly mediocre pub lunch + pint. ~£20 for something that can run XBMC. [00:57] so it will be real easy for someone to make a clone with a totally different chip :) [00:58] Oli: a house brick is even cheaper and about as useful to me [00:58] Oli: but it won't boot ubuntu, so offtopic in #ubuntu-uk :p [00:58] i would happily pay 4x or more for the exact same thing, except with documentation [00:59] ali1234: i'd pay much closer to £100 if it had an OMAP4 or similar cortex-a series CPU [00:59] although i already have an efikamx on my desk [00:59] and i.mx53 is full of freescale fail [00:59] well, that's one of the beagle series... [01:00] there are already more powerful boards, if you are willing to pay more? ;) [01:00] it's not about power, that thing is *really* powerful [01:00] but the architecture is designed so that broadcom can cripple features with the blob [01:00] hamitron: i don't want *much* more powerful. i just want a better general-purpose cpu core than the iphone 1 had [01:01] i just want to twiddle the hardware registers and make it do cool stuff [01:01] tbh, I think I'd choose an i3 on some ITX board [01:01] ;) [01:01] don't care if the cpu is worse [01:01] well, there is talk of changing resistors to fix the fault [01:01] whut [01:02] I heard something has been changed since the beta board, which has broken some function [01:02] that's just one of the SPI ports [01:02] or I2C, i forget [01:02] yeh [01:02] but it has like 3 [01:02] that's not the point [01:03] not really something I want tbh, rather have a fpga I think [01:03] the point is: imagine you have a dual core computer that is running windows 7 with a locked EFI bootloader and the only way you can run linux is by running it in virtualbox/vmware and dedicating it one CPU core [01:03] that's the raspberry pi [01:04] he pi has less cpu power [01:04] Sleeeeeeeeeeeep [01:04] ;) [01:04] the* [01:04] I wouldn't care if that was what I expected. And I do and I'm happy with that because it's an iPhone for £20 [01:04] yes, and instead of windows you have express logic threadx [01:05] i'll probably still buy one anyway [01:05] lol [01:05] haha [01:05] but i doubt i will use it for anything [01:05] pretty much all it can do is opengl and video [01:05] Well if you ever get bored of it, I'll happily take it off you [01:05] I'm not gonna rush, if everyone else wants one so badly ;) [01:06] I did wonder if it would be a good replacement for a load of my old comps [01:07] once there is no restriction on the number ya can buy [01:07] Depends on their purpose. I wouldn't use it for a multi-purpose desktop but for silly things like torrentboxes, home-automation, etc, they'd be ace. [01:08] it would make an awful torrent box, it only has 256 mb [01:08] and it's slooooow [01:08] torrents would be ok wouldn't they? [01:08] and you have to plug in a usb hard drive, which is slooooooow [01:08] but agreed, not the best thing for the task [01:09] ali1234: since when did torrents need RAM? rtorrent piddles away like 20MB [01:09] and for video, I'd get something like this: http://www.saverstore.com/product/20216880/Sumvision-Cyclone-Micro-3-HD-HDMI-1080p-Upscaling-Multi-Media-Player-Adaptor--Black [01:09] i had to buy a router with 256mb ram because just all the torrent connections were killing the old one that only had 32 mb [01:09] and that's when the torrent program is running on a different computer [01:09] my router with 16MB ram is fine [01:09] :/ [01:09] And USB is faster than my internet connection so that's not a problem. [01:10] the r-pi is basically good at one thing: and that is being a set-top-box [01:10] that's what it is designed for (not mobile phones) [01:10] and cheap to learn basic programming ;) [01:10] ok, *maybe* mobiles as well [01:10] you do not learn basic programming on this. BASIC maybe. but not basic. only high level stuff [01:11] I was thinking, C upwards [01:11] yeah, there's no point using C on this [01:11] ? [01:11] because there's nothing on it that you can use with C [01:11] but good for a new little cheap device for someone who can't afford a full comp [01:11] everything has to be done through library calls [01:12] nothing can be done on the ARM cpu? [01:12] :| [01:12] all the arm chip can do is make RPC to the GPU [01:12] which is done through libraries [01:12] or through the kernel interface in a few instances [01:13] well, still think you are been a little harsh..... even if it is higher level stuff only [01:13] you should really only be using C to write device drivers, and this thing doesn't have any devices [01:13] it only has RPC mailboxes [01:13] you can use C to learn to code simple apps [01:13] if you want to make, say, a media centre front end, it is perfect for that [01:14] that is what it is designed for [01:14] but you wouldn't code that in C because it would be buggy as hell [01:14] or if you want to make the front end for your home automation system, it's great [01:14] I know you wouldn't..... but someone could try and learn a lot [01:14] ;/ [01:15] QML is a perfect match for it [01:16] i'd get one to mess about with QML, if i could get a nice small OLED screen for it [01:16] touchscreen ofc [01:18] way I feel atm, will stick with existing x86 machines [01:18] :) [01:18] makes sense [01:20] the only good thing I can see, if it became big, it is a standard hardware setup [01:20] actually it isn't [01:20] oh? [01:20] the hardware is all virtualized so it can change any time the blob changes [01:21] but the high level interfaces are so simplistic that it doesn't really matter [01:21] I just thought, if everyone ran r-pi, it may create a nice large community [01:21] a slim distro [01:21] <- mer is that way [01:21] it run on x86 too [01:22] i don't know of any raspi specific distros [01:22] not linux anyway [01:22] not yet ofc [01:22] most people will just use fedora or debian [01:22] people that want a slim distro will use mer [01:23] it basically runs anything [01:23] I suspect it may encourage people to like slimmer software [01:23] surely a good thing? [01:23] lolno, it will just encourage people to upgrade to a "real" computer [01:23] haha, true [01:23] :) [01:23] I guess in reality, people won't put up with slow [01:24] yep [01:24] and ubuntu won't be on it anyway [01:24] Not to begin with, at least [01:24] not ever [01:24] nope. [01:24] ever. [01:24] well, i guess hardy [01:25] tbh, ubuntu isn't everything ;) [01:25] !hardy [01:25] Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on May 12 2011, Server support continues until 2013. See !upgrade, !lts and !eol for more details. [01:25] * hamitron hides from the comebacks [01:25] still a year or so left :) [01:25] but ubuntu requires armv7 with thumb2 support [01:25] yeah and i don't see that requirement getting any lower [01:25] it will almost certainly go up [01:25] no, ubuntu is for cutting edge [01:26] so you run Mer ali1234 ? [01:26] no [01:26] mer is only about 100 odd packages [01:26] if i ran it, i'd boot up to a shell prompt [01:27] is that bad? ;) [01:27] um.................................. yes? [01:27] Isn't Mer what was on the Noka "tablets" (Nxxx series)? [01:27] no [01:27] mer is a fork of that [01:27] well it was [01:27] now it's a fork of meego [01:28] soon it will be a fork of tizen [01:28] :) [01:28] then a fork of ubuntu? ;) [01:28] no, they already tried that [01:28] haha [01:28] nothing pleases me now, so I've given up looking [01:29] basically it's the community edition of "real mobile linux" ie mobile linux with gnu utils and X11 [01:29] as opposed to linux [01:29] so they'll pull in whatever [01:29] as opposed to *android i meant [01:30] there's a load of openmoko people working on it [01:30] people from maemo, meego, moblin [01:30] probably good if you like to mess around with mobile gadgets [01:30] yes, anything arm, low powered, but with a nice gpu [01:30] You're starting to make me want to move back to my N900. [01:30] I've always wanted a N900 [01:31] :) [01:31] the N900 is great apart from that damn resistive touch screen, it's so horrible to use [01:31] just little too expensive still [01:31] you could have got one for the price of a ticket to amsterdam :) [01:31] It's okay with the stylus but yes, it's nothing on modern capacitive screens [01:31] ali1234, I could? :| [01:31] £28? [01:31] plane ticket. yeah. the conference was free :) [01:32] :( [01:32] Nokia was the worst thing about the N900. If they could find a way to screw things up, they did. [01:33] I reckon they want to "nearly go bust", so they can buy back most of their shares [01:33] ;) [01:33] why else do what they are? [01:33] While we're muttering about the N900, here's my review of it after using it for a year: http://thepcspy.com/read/my-n900-review/ [01:34] i've had an n900, n9, and pre3 as work phones [01:34] n900 lasted about a day before i rejected it [01:34] blasphemy [01:35] tbh, I want a n900 to basically use as a comp..... I should just stick to my comp [01:35] I still use mine to SSH into my computer when X locks up. [01:35] * hamitron uses another comp [01:35] what is all that crud on your n900? [01:35] lack of google contacts is a HUGE issue for me [01:36] i don't think that's a design flaw, i think that's just you :) [01:36] COOKIE CRUMBS [01:36] ;) [01:36] ali1234: well quite - read the blurb next to it. That was after a few days of being in my pocket and it's not like I fill my pockets up with sand on a regular basis [01:36] ah google contacts... but the skype integration is great! [01:36] i still use it for that [01:37] I keep meaning to use my PSP for skype [01:37] also... i'm sure mine has synced google contacts [01:37] beacuse there'sa bug where it gets everyone's birthday a day late [01:37] from google [01:37] :/ [01:37] beacuse it doesn't support timezones properly [01:37] I guess I really just miss the slide out keyboard. Typing commands into SSH on my SGS2 with Swype is a pain in the face. [01:37] ali1234: it works for some people maybe ish if you configure google as a microsoft exchange server, not as a gmail server [01:38] oh wait, it's because you have to use google's exchange sync service [01:38] brb, coffee [01:38] yeah, now i remember [01:39] IMHO the n9 does more things as intended than the pre3. it's less buggy, in that the functions it implements go wrong less. but what it implements is usually worse [01:39] i could write pages about the n9's boneheaded design decisions [02:46] whew, i think i finished all the tests [02:47] and i found a bug in the test program :S [02:56] make that two :/ [07:24] morning [07:24] hi TheOpenSourcerer [07:24] Morning [07:24] Are you dressed and ready Mr AlanBell? [07:27] I am decent [07:27] just fed the chickens [07:28] OK - Will be along fairly shortly then. [07:38] uuuuuuugh [07:38] o/ popey [07:39] head like a box of frogs [07:41] ribbit [08:03] morning all [08:05] Aloha [08:09] \o [08:34] Morning all [08:45] Morning [08:45] good morning [08:47] -6. Sun is shining. Time for a run :) [08:48] Morning [09:05] "Package data processed by brokerage. Waiting for clearance. / Released by Clearing Agency. Now in-transit for delivery. " [09:05] \o/ [09:05] apt-get install ..? [09:06] (with ACTA in place) [09:13] 'ello peeps [09:14] popey: frogs will visit those who drink on a school night :P [09:14] Personally I was up 'til 1am working on database designs [09:15] <- knackered [09:25] Hi, does anyone know where to find information _why_ a particular package is not contained in the current release? In my case I wonder why http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/imapsync is no longer shipped. [09:32] imexil: it got renamed imapcopy by the look of it [09:32] no that is a differen program as far as I can see [09:32] imapcopy does not do/support what imapsynch does [09:33] or did [09:34] imexil: looks like imapsync was dropped in debian [09:34] i use offlineimap [09:34] which is probably why it was dropped in ubuntu [09:34] Don't suppose anyone is after one of these? http://www.myadventvega.co.uk/ [09:35] but is there any kind of traceback of *why* it was dropped? [09:37] smittix: I've recently bought myself a Xoom, so I'm happy :) [09:40] bigcalm: which android is on it? [09:41] Honeycomb (ICS if you're in North America) [09:41] bigcalm, Can I ask how much you paid for it ? [09:42] diplo: 249.99 from the Carphone Warehouse (no longer offered) [09:42] I really would like to get one, dubious about spending the money as I'm rather short of cash most of the time [09:42] oh :/ [09:42] Liking it ? [09:42] Yeah, I spotted the offer on twitter and gave in :) [09:42] diplo: yes, very much [09:42] I also would love to know what it's like for reading books, instead of getting a kindle + tablet [09:42] Was debating about just a tablet [09:43] I have both, so tend to use the kindle for books [09:44] I find the tablet is handy as a reference manual display while I'm working [09:44] diplo, kindle on a tablet is decent, but if you read a lot I would recommend a 7" [09:45] The Xoom is quite weighty [09:45] I read lot's of normal books at the mo, borrow my mates sony ereader and decided i liked it, also dad just for a kindle and uses it all the time [09:45] You wouldn't want to hold it for too long in bed [09:45] but a decent price right now [09:46] just not going to be able to afford both, think a tablet would be best option for now as kids could use it a lot [09:46] My brother bought an iPad and the kids loved it. [09:46] Get a tablet then if you can only get one [09:46] an original Tab, or a Flyer would be ideal [09:47] I got my kids Advent Vega's and they love them [09:47] imexil: http://old.nabble.com/situation-of-imapsync-and-Debian-%28was%3A-Re%3A-Bug-609845%3A-huge-memory-leak-when-syncing-large-mailboxes%29-td30744498.html [09:48] Will take a look ubuntubhoy thanks [09:48] popey: cool thank ! [09:48] how did you find it? [09:49] bigcalm: Nice, I have Honeycomb on this Vega. I don't use it at all though so it's just sitting there. [09:49] google [09:49] So wish i wasn't so tight on money :/ [09:49] oh that one ;) [09:49] debian bug 609845 [09:49] Debian bug 609845 in ftp.debian.org "RM: imapsync -- ROM; no longer distributable" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/609845 [09:50] diplo, the other option is a Kindle Fire [09:50] yeah, been looking at them.. was waiting on XDA peeps to unlock it nicely :) [09:50] Then make it kid friendly, give that to the kids and get something for myself [09:53] any Android Tab is kid friendly really [09:54] daubers: no reply from black magic yet ☹ [09:55] the Humble Bundle is on again with an Android bent with World of Goo... [09:58] diplo: i find my tablet useful to take to meetings. often there's 10 PDFs which are referred to in a meeting, and some people print them out just for the meeting, then throw away afterwards [09:59] I like that idea oimon, luckily new job means not to many meetings now but I do like that idea. [09:59] and i only paid £90 for my HP tablet [10:00] you have a touchpad ? [10:00] yes [10:00] then why do you need another tablet [10:00] get CM9 on it [10:00] me? i don't [10:00] Ohh, wrong person [10:00] oops [10:00] :D [10:00] haha [10:01] hmmm.. amount of spam received lately has doubled at least [10:01] work and personal [10:03] ha. usually we give linux boxes to new staff, but after a couple of days, one guy demanded a windows box. ever since then he's been asking for stuff that comes standard on linux machines, and takes one of our team 15-30 minutes to sort out on a windows machine each time. [10:03] FAIL [10:04] popey: :( [10:07] popey, now I come to you for your m4d ffmpeg sk1llz [10:10] aquarius: what you gonna play the converted videos on? [10:10] a kindle? ☺ [10:10] popey, ps3 [10:10] not a kindle. :) [10:10] video on kindle. It'd work for stop-motion stuff :) [10:11] what codecs does the ps3 support? [10:11] no idea. [10:11] if I have to spend the rest of my life finding that out then I wouldn't need your help :) [10:12] it plays downloaded .avi files, which means nothing, and allegedly it supports mp4 as well but not what Handbrake outputs [10:12] I can find a file that I know works and then inspect it in a way of your choosing, if that helps [10:12] get a video it plays and install ffmpeg then run "ffmpeg -i video.mp4" [10:12] and that will tell you what codecs it uses [10:13] Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 624x352 [PAR 1:1 DAR 39:22], 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc [10:13] Stream #0.1: Audio: mp3, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 192 kb/s [10:13] A [10:14] diplo, http://recombu.com/news/spark-linux-based-tablet-for-200-166-runs-kdes-plasma-active-interface_M16655.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=share&utm_campaign=website [10:15] aquarius: is the goal to save space? [10:15] popey, nope. Don't care about space [10:15] whats the goal? [10:15] (well, within reason. I'd rather a 500MB mkv doesn't become 4GB or anything [10:16] goal: convert a bunch of mkv files which won't play on my ps3 to something which will. [10:16] then delete the mkv files :) [10:20] ubuntubhoy, Sorry ueah i saw that the other day.. keeping an eye on it [10:20] Be good for me, not so sure for kids. [10:20] true [10:21] I'm gonna have a look at compiling it and throwing it over KDE to see if it runs [10:21] being so short on cash and none of my friends having any android tablets to play with I've held back because I don't want to make the wrong decision [10:24]