[12:23] <snap-l> New case is in. It's sharp
[12:24] <snap-l> and by sharp, I mean it's going to cut me at some point during this build
[12:24] <mydogsnameisrudy> hmm sounds orgazmic
[12:24] <snap-l> haven't had a case like that in a while.
[12:49] <brousch> fun times with the subaru
[12:58] <rick_h> brousch: yea?
[12:58] <brousch> transmission issues
[12:58] <brousch> looks like a common problem on this era of subaru
[12:59] <brousch> it hit 123456 miles last night!
[13:01] <brousch> but it has trouble shifting into drive
[13:01] <rick_h> yuck
[13:03] <mydogsnameisrudy> change the filter and oil lately?
[13:15] <brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: it has regular maintenance from a mechanic
[13:16] <rick_h> brousch: what year is it? I took my last one to 180k <3
[13:16] <brousch> i found a forum with many others having this exact same problem, but the only solutions are transmission flush and filter (gives you 6 months of usage) or transmission rebuild
[13:16] <brousch> 2000 forester
[13:16] <rick_h> ah, outback for life!
[13:17] <rick_h> brousch: yea, I've heard of some of that from the early 2k models
[13:17] <brousch> i liked the outback better, but this is the wife's car so she had final say
[13:17] <rick_h> when I got my 99 I test drove both and the forrester feels roomier, but the outback is more solid/quiet
[13:17] <brousch> we got it in 2003 with 19k miles, so it's had a good run
[13:18] <rick_h> yea, nice thing is that fix the tranny and it's still got another good life in it
[13:20] <brousch> tranny fix is $2000+, car is worth $3000
[13:20] <brousch> $3000 if it's working ;)
[13:21] <brousch> also we've put a grand into it in the last 6 months with the first time this happened, broken shift cable, and burst radiator, so it's not feeling like something that will last will another 50k miles
[13:24] <rick_h> brousch: ugh, sucky
[13:47] <snap-l> brousch: Sorry to hear that.
[14:09] <Wolfger> brousch: Which gear is "drive"? 1st? 5th?
[14:09] <Wolfger> 1st gets me going, but 5th is what I spend most of my time in...
[14:09] <brousch> 1st
[14:09] <brousch> automatic
[14:09] <Wolfger> But I generally find that any one gear is skipable.
[14:10] <Wolfger> Well there's your problem! :-)
[14:10] <rick_h> hard to skip 5th
[14:10] <brousch> but trying to go using 1,2 or 3 has the same result
[14:10] <Wolfger> bah
[14:11] <Wolfger> rick_h: I can skip (forgo) 5th if need be, but MPG would suffer
[14:12] <rick_h> skip != forgo :P
[14:12] <brousch> real cars have 7 forward gears
[14:12] <Wolfger> but skip =~ forgo
[14:12] <brousch> you wimps and your 5
[14:13] <Wolfger> real drivers shift their own gears, not leave it to the whims of a mechanical device
[14:13] <rick_h> yea, <3 my stick
[14:13] <brousch> yeah, i kind of miss that
[14:13] <rick_h> but it does suck that it's hard to get the nice upgrades since sticks are usually saved for the lower end builds
[14:13] <brousch> but then i spend 75% of my time on city streets with stop lights and signs every 1/2 mile
[14:15] <Wolfger> at any rate, sorry to hear about your costly repairs :-(
[14:16] <Wolfger> FWIW, my Jeep is approaching the quarter-million mark on the odometer, no major issues other than the radiator rusting out last year.
[14:16] <brousch> yeah, jeeps last forvever
[14:17] <brousch> fall apart bit by bit from the outisde in
[14:18] <Wolfger> Yeah, I'm getting some water inside when it rains... but I don't consider that a major issue for some reason :-p
[14:18] <Wolfger> inside -> the rugs get wet, not inside -> raining on my head
[14:19] <Wolfger> I'm sure the body will rust completely away before I have powertrain issues
[15:25] <rick_h> just keep telling myself "doing this nasty hack in your code is ok...it'll let you get to fix it...it'll be ok"
[15:27] <brousch> hehe http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/stewart-michigan.png
[15:29] <_stink_> hah
[16:00] <Wolfger> brousch, snap-l: we should incorporate that into the LoCo logo
[16:01] <Wolfger> rick_h: hack code is fine... for now...
[16:01] <Wolfger> What are the odds it will ever bite you in the butt? ;-)
[16:03] <rick_h> heh, I'm proud, I've not blown up and quit yet. :)
[16:26] <Wolfger> uh-oh
[16:26] <Wolfger> trouble in Canonical paradise?
[16:27] <rick_h> let's just say that it's a compliment to my will power I've not begun a man hunt for the people that did the JS work in LP :)
[16:29] <_stink_> hah
[16:34] <Wolfger> LOL
[16:35] <rick_h> I know that they say "you don't need ruby experts, you need programming experts!" but some damn good programmers can write some HORRIBLE javascript!
[16:39] <Wolfger> It's comforting, somewhat, to know that bad code infiltrates every company to some degree. At least... comforting for as long as I don't change jobs.
[16:44] <brousch> ohman, google groups pages are much easier to use than facebook
[16:44] <brousch> switching is really easy
[16:46] <Wolfger> woot
[16:47] <Wolfger> I have really come to loathe
[16:47] <Wolfger> Facebook
[16:50] <brousch> adding manager is simple too
[17:02] <snap-l> rick_h: I did some code wrangling yesterday that made me feel like I needed some lysol afterward
[17:02] <snap-l> rick_h: Also, Javascript is not regular programming
[17:03] <snap-l> Normal programming makes some assumptions which are patently false in Javascript.
[17:03] <Blazeix> like what?
[17:03] <snap-l> scope rules
[17:04] <snap-l> Conventions for hiding or containing scope
[17:04] <snap-l> prototyping vs. OO
[17:05] <snap-l> JAvascript reminds me of C++ in many regards, because your preconceptions can get you into some deep trouble
[17:06] <Blazeix> scope i'm not so sure about. python scope is funky as well
[17:06] <snap-l> Well, in a way, yes
[17:07] <snap-l> Python's scoping is more geared towards making sure you're explicit when using globals
[17:07] <Blazeix> and variables leaking out of if/while blocks
[17:07] <snap-l> Javascript encourages global usage
[17:08] <snap-l> s/encourages/sends out invitations, and has a party whenever there's/
[17:08] <Blazeix> yeah, binding to the global object is stupid
[17:08] <Blazeix> as in a stupid language design deecision
[17:08] <snap-l> (I know it's not that bad, but it seems like every Javascript book I've read, without exception, starts off with "Here's how to avoid global scope")
[17:13] <Blazeix> i guess i'd argue that js differences aren't that large, when compared to differences between other languages
[17:13] <Blazeix> i'm bristling at "not regular programming" being used as an excuse to not learn a language
[17:13] <Blazeix> though I know that's not what you were going for :)
[17:13] <snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, no, that's not it at all
[17:14] <snap-l> More that "if you're not programming for Javascript, you'll be in for a world of hurt"
[17:14] <snap-l> If you treat C++ as C with nicer malloc, you're also in for a world of hurt
[17:15] <snap-l> Of course, that's almost true of any language, now that I think about it. ;)
[17:16]  * snap-l gets ready to restate his null hypothesis
[17:16] <snap-l> Perhaps Javascript isn't approached as a new language, but more as "web glue", and that's where it gets folks into trouble
[17:16] <snap-l> they only learn enough for their project, not to really understand it
[17:17]  * snap-l waits for _stink_ to yell at him for using the phrase "null hypothesis". ;)
[17:18] <rick_h> the thing with JS is that it's bolted on a lot of things
[17:18] <rick_h> like in Launchpad
[17:19] <rick_h> which then means as it grows, you have to unbolt it and start to make sense of it, get it under tests that didn't exist, break assumptions, functionality that was done server side since the server side code was generating hte JS code
[17:19] <rick_h> which is where I'm at, trying to wrangle years of bad practice into good practices, but as you start to do it, you break so much code that you have to go back, implement bad things before you can start to fix them
[17:20] <rick_h> maybe shell is the only thing that tend to get abused so much because you can just do quick things with it and it's not really part of hte main app
[17:20] <rick_h> so it ends up not tested, no one knows how it works, etc
[17:21] <brousch> shell scripting is a great analogue
[17:21] <brousch> it's the bash of the web
[17:22] <snap-l> brousch: rick_h ++
[17:27] <rick_h> except in JS you can start to turn that bash code into a full application now
[17:29] <brousch> i'm sure you can make a real application in bash
[17:30] <rick_h> I'm sure it's possible
[17:30] <rick_h> but not common as making a reall app in JS is becoming common
[17:31] <brousch> that's just because Google hasn't shown you how yet
[17:32] <rick_h> lol
[17:33] <Blazeix> next google blogpost "we're sunsetting this whole 'web' thing"
[17:34] <rick_h> naw, "bash for App Engine support! with a new sdk we call BwT!"
[17:35] <rick_h> ksh users everywhere cry out "Why doesn't Google love us?!"
[17:44] <Wolfger> psh
[17:45]  * Wolfger wonders why he has never actually installed perl shell... it only seems natural...
[17:47] <jrwren> anyone know how I can get bash to show me readline variables, like completions-ignore-case
[17:51] <snap-l> Wolfger: Because you're not that masochistic?
[17:52] <brousch> snap-l: come on, look who you're talking about
[17:52] <brousch> there must be some other reason
[18:39] <brousch> oh no! the choo-choo train! http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/se_mich/amtrak-train-crash-in-jackson-county
[18:40] <jrwren> O_O
[19:00] <snap-l> Ugh, not cool.
[19:14] <snap-l> I love that during the recording of The Gates of Delerium by Yes, a rack of automobile parts fell during the drum take
[19:15] <snap-l> and they left it in.
[19:16] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gates_of_Delirium
[19:47] <Wolfger> snap-l: Me, not masochistic? I've been a contractor at Chrysler for nearly 11 years now.
[19:47] <Wolfger> brousch: the reason is laziness
[19:48] <snap-l> Wolfger: Heh
[19:48] <snap-l> Wolfger: Sadly I think there are contractors at Chrysler that have been there longer than most full-time folks.
[19:49] <snap-l> So dippy.
[19:49] <Wolfger> ...
[19:49] <Wolfger> I think snap-l just called me dippy.
[19:49] <snap-l> Um, no
[19:50] <snap-l> I mean Chrysler's whole hiring practices
[19:50] <Wolfger> :-)
[19:51] <Wolfger> They're actually hiring pretty decently lately
[19:52] <Wolfger> but I lack the requisite 4-year degree to continue doing what I've been doing the past 11 years if I attempt to hire in.
[19:55] <Blazeix> my boss (who codes) joined the company 4 years ago, and he doesn't have a degree. so it's still possible.
[19:55] <Blazeix> just maybe not at chrysler
[19:59] <Wolfger> Yeah, problem with big companies is that they tend to adopt arbitrary rules and adhere strictly to them.
[20:01] <Wolfger> There's a massive disconnect between the HR dept and the people who actually conduct interviews
[20:04] <jrwren> yet another reason to not work for a bug company
[20:09] <brousch> yeah, also, the bugs
[20:09] <brousch> man, they're killers
[20:10]  * krondor won't even talk about the depressing government hiring process
[20:18] <snap-l> Blazeix: Chrysler is blazingly stupid about their degree requirements
[20:18] <snap-l> krondor: One of my friends keeps sending me job reqs for the state of michigan
[20:19] <snap-l> unless they could guarantee a frat-party every single day, I think I'd want to kill myself.
[20:51] <brousch> quick and dirty logo. thoughts? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/grmobiledev-logo-400px.png
[20:56] <snap-l> INteresting start
[20:57] <brousch> i think it's all there. maybe just mess with fonts and finger thicknesses
[21:02] <krondor> hmm, I'm not sure I like the gray for the fingers instead of black
[21:03] <brousch> everything black, or gray phone, black fingers?
[21:03] <krondor> everything black I'm thinking
[21:04] <krondor> or make the colors a more obvious difference.  The gray is too similar to the black
[21:04] <brousch> they are pretty close
[21:13] <brousch> hm, a dark yellow hand works well too
[21:14] <Blazeix> what about android green?
[21:14] <Blazeix> would that be too light?
[21:49] <krondor> I'd make the four fingers shorter and fatter and more evenly spaced across the phone.  I'd make the thumb maybe come up midway to the edge of Dev
[21:50] <krondor> Fills in the logo a bit more, and play with some fonts (Ubuntu font might look nice)
[21:51] <krondor> Also I'd androidify it a bit more :)  Green Blazeix++ and get rid of that iphone circle for a home, back, switch icon
[21:51] <krondor> but that's because I'm biased
[22:00] <brousch> :P
[22:00] <brousch> the green is so glaring
[22:00] <brousch> oh crap, gotta run
[23:19] <tjagoda> Terrible suspense is terrible
[23:19] <tjagoda> I think tomorrow or Friday is when I'm supposed to hear back from Canonical