[01:23] <pleia2> added the Quick Links to the sidebar of the pages
[01:24] <knome> micahg, ?
[01:24] <knome> pleia2, :)
[01:24] <pleia2> knome: are we done? :)
[01:24] <knome> we should add some archive-browsing links in the sidebar
[01:25] <pleia2> k
[01:25] <knome> let me quickly set up a proposal
[01:27] <micahg> knome: ?
[01:27] <knome> micahg, was wed a good/bad day for you?
[01:28] <micahg> for what?
[01:28] <knome> meeting
[01:28] <micahg> what time?
[01:28] <knome> 17utc or earlier
[01:28] <knome> or 18utc
[01:28] <micahg> umm, not good for me next week, should work this week
[01:29] <knome> you mean, today? :P
[01:29] <knome> what about friday this week, about same time
[01:29] <knome> or nvm.
[01:29] <knome> let's have a meeting this wed and next wed.
[01:29] <micahg> umm, I'm still on Tuesday ;)
[01:29] <knome> heh ;)
[01:30] <knome> pleia2, i think that should do
[01:30] <pleia2> knome: looks good!
[01:36] <pleia2> knome: we can formally decide we're ready to switch over at the meeting tomorrow
[01:36]  * pleia2 will sleep on it
[01:36] <knome> yup
[01:41] <knome> errr
[01:41] <knome> d'oh
[01:43] <knome> okay, the meetings are in the fridge calendar
[01:46] <knome> pleia2, i fear we're going to have to go through the xubuntu wiki pages too in the future...
[01:47]  * pleia2 nods
[01:47]  * knome is thinking of deleting most of them
[01:47] <knome> ;)
[01:47] <pleia2> that's how I've been "handling" the news team wiki pages lately
[01:47] <knome> yeah
[01:47] <knome> there's a bit too much stuff in there
[01:48] <knome> and some of it would do much better in the website
[01:49] <pleia2> yeah, the contribute stuff in particular is all strangely scattered between the site and wiki
[01:49] <knome> yeah
[01:49] <knome> another thing that has been under discussion much is the strategy document
[01:50] <knome> there are things i'd like to review, and generally, i think it could do better if it was a tad shorter
[01:50] <len_> Hey, Len from Ubuntu Studio. Just installed todays iso. Two comments.
[01:50] <pleia2> yeah, I'm glad we have one but it needs review periodically to make sure it remains useful and accurate
[01:50] <knome> keeping it up-to-date is a monstrous job if it's too long
[01:50] <pleia2> welcome len_ 
[01:50] <knome> hey len_ 
[01:51] <len_> The slide show has some outdated slides in it
[01:51] <pleia2> I'm still getting over this flu, so I'm going to go zone out to some TV for a bit, talk more tomorrow :)
[01:51] <knome> len_, we're working on that
[01:51] <knome> pleia2, yup, get well soon :)
[01:51] <len_> About how 11.10 is the latest and greatest
[01:51] <knome> pleia2, see you at the meeting at latest! :)
[01:51] <knome> len_, yes, it's known and it is WIP
[01:51] <len_> I don't know if there is supposed to be a progress bar on the bottom,
[01:52] <len_> But I can't see it.
[01:52] <knome> maybe somebody who does the tests can tell if that exists for other flavors
[01:52] <len_> Other than that it seems to work well.
[01:53] <len_> Well in US there is a progress bar at the bottom... when it still worked :-)
[01:53] <len_> Well even when it doesn't.
[01:53] <knome> FYI, i'm also working on the new US slideshow
[01:53] <knome> so if you want that to be visible, i need to investigate that
[01:54] <len_> It is nice to know things are moving. There is a kernel bug right now that makes me no net.
[01:54] <knome> err, if US wants that to be visible ;)
[01:55] <len_> so when xubuntu was trying to download stuff things just stopped but there was no progress bar so I didn't know if it had stopped or was doing something.
[01:55] <len_> I had to tail the syslog to see what was happening.
[01:56] <len_> I am using a netbook, BTW
[01:56] <knome> right, well i know very little of that kind of technical things
[01:57] <len_> So the bar may be below what I could see.
[01:57] <astraljava> len_: Because I very rarely use desktop images, were you able to Alt + F1 like one could on alternate installers, to see what's going on?
[01:57] <len_> There is no logging on VT4
[01:57] <len_> (or any other)
[01:58] <knome> len_, so did maybe-ubiquity work as expected? is there something that is ubuntu-branded that should really be xubuntu-branded?
[01:58] <astraljava> len_: Alt + right-click to move a window by dragging, might work on ubiquity.
[01:58] <knome> astraljava, you too if you know ^
[01:58] <astraljava> knome: Ehh... WTF is maybe-ubiquity?
[01:58] <len_> The window was already as high as it could go.
[01:59] <knome> astraljava, hahah, it's the thing that asks you whether you want to install or try live
[01:59] <astraljava> knome: Oh okay.
[01:59] <len_> Last I saw US didn't have that
[01:59] <astraljava> Never heard that name before.
[01:59] <astraljava> len_: Oh yes it did.
[01:59] <knome> i've NEVER *seen* it ;)
[01:59] <len_> Just the boot screen
[01:59] <astraljava> WHA?!
[02:00] <len_> Xubuntu has it though
[02:00] <knome> i mean, maybe-ubiquity was added for xubuntu in precise
[02:00] <astraljava> The screen which provides you the options to go live, install without trying, and all extra kernel options and the like?
[02:00] <astraljava> Oh.
[02:00] <astraljava> Strange.
[02:01] <knome> "enable hidden-timeout splash mode for Xubuntu"
[02:01] <astraljava> Well, I may have to have a look. Once the new images are done.
[02:01] <knome> was the message that fixed this.
[02:01] <knome> bug #720652
[02:04] <len_> Hmm, I also notice that lightdm works on xubuntu without the /usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop file.
[02:06] <micahg> IIRC, we use lightdm-set-defaults
[02:08] <len_> Does Scott know?
[02:09] <len_> How would I check that?
[02:09] <knome> he most probably does
[02:09] <knome> asking him is a good choice
[02:11] <micahg> len_: take a look at the postinst and postrm in xubuntu-default-settings
[02:13] <len_> Ok, I'm posting the questions to Scott as well.
[02:15] <knome> BOO for taking >2months to review merges :((
[02:16] <len_> micahg: thanks for the help.
[02:17] <micahg> knome: who's taking >2 months to review a merge?
[02:17] <knome> micahg, https://code.launchpad.net/~simon-steinbeiss/unico/fix-resize-grip/+merge/83929
[02:17] <knome> it's even trivial
[02:18] <Unit193> Those take the most time
[02:18] <micahg> ask cimi?
[02:19] <knome> not online
[02:19] <len_> I going to vanish now ... thanks again.
[02:19] <knome> will poke him soon
[02:26] <knome> nighty!
[15:36] <GridCube> iim failing to install today's image
[15:37] <GridCube> :/ first trying to launch the intaller directly, not going to live, but it goes to live session
[15:37] <GridCube> then it doesnt have mouse integration with vbox, wich its a first
[15:37] <GridCube> then it doesnt launch the installer from the desktop
[15:38] <GridCube> and it doesnt recognizes the vbox network either
[15:38] <charlie-tca> There was an issue with the mouse in vbox yesterday too
[15:40] <charlie-tca> GridCube: trying to launch the installer directly == from the cd menu or from "try Xubuntu" "install Xubuntu" ?
[15:40] <GridCube> yes
[15:41] <GridCube> i choosed the Install, not the try
[15:41] <GridCube> but i will send me to the live, not the pure installer
[15:41] <charlie-tca> okay. The install from desktop is going to need a bug filed
[15:42] <GridCube> im making a bug report from outside the installer
[15:42] <charlie-tca> That's okay
[15:42] <GridCube> but i cant get logs from the vbox because i dont have network
[15:43] <GridCube> today's image still being alpha2?
[15:43] <charlie-tca> yup
[15:43] <charlie-tca> all images until tomorrow when alpha2 releases
[15:43] <GridCube> ok
[15:44] <GridCube> charlie-tca, should i do a single bug report with all the issues or should i do separated reports for each one?
[15:44] <charlie-tca> separate
[15:44] <GridCube> ok
[15:45] <charlie-tca> I will try to reproduce the issue with the desktop installer on hardware. That is a big one, if we can not install from the desktop
[15:46] <GridCube> charlie-tca, http://imagebin.org/196727
[15:47] <charlie-tca> no network connection?
[15:47] <GridCube> no
[15:47] <charlie-tca> If it is not connected to the internet, it won't allow the bug to be filed
[15:48] <charlie-tca> That's normal
[15:50] <charlie-tca> GridCube: we think they are going to respin the desktop images again
[15:51] <GridCube> ok
[15:52] <GridCube> #924931
[15:52] <GridCube> bug 924931
[15:52] <GridCube> mmm i cant report another empty bug
[15:52] <charlie-tca> No point in it
[15:53] <charlie-tca> I will try here on hardware and see what happens, as soon as the test running finishes
[15:54] <charlie-tca> If I read this right, you choose "try xubuntu" and can't install from the desktop, but if you choose "install xubuntu" it goes to the desktop and the installer works?
[15:54] <GridCube> no
[15:54] <GridCube> neither works
[15:55] <GridCube> if you just try to install from the direct install, no live session, it will load the desktop with 2 bug reports
[15:55] <charlie-tca> I will give it a try then.
[15:55] <charlie-tca> 386 or 64bit?
[15:55] <GridCube> one being ubiquity failin, and the other being ...
[15:55] <GridCube> 32bits
[15:56] <GridCube> i get you my old bug reports for past week
[15:57] <GridCube> here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/920639
[15:58] <GridCube> ok
[15:58] <GridCube> i have to go to work now
[15:58] <GridCube> see you in a few hours
[16:07] <kurapika> helloooo
[16:38] <knome> xubuntu community meeting in about 20
[16:46] <astraljava> Are you guys able to install apps in a live session of A-2?
[16:48] <charlie-tca> Will try, 386 or 64bit?
[16:48] <charlie-tca> Oh, think it depends on the day of the week, too
[16:48] <astraljava> 64-bit
[16:48] <astraljava> I tried on last night's, so 20120201
[16:48] <charlie-tca> I tried a couple of weeks ago, and it failed once and worked once
[16:49] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Oh, and this is Studio I'm talking about. Just wondering whether it works for other derivatives.
[16:49] <charlie-tca> Okay, spinning up now
[16:49] <charlie-tca> When I got it to install gedit, it failed trying to run the installer without rebooting
[16:50] <astraljava> weird
[16:50] <charlie-tca> As I recall, I ran apt-get update and then the application installs failed, but just running software center without updating worked
[16:51] <astraljava> Interesting, I gotta try other front-ends too.
[16:51] <charlie-tca> Waiting for the desktop
[16:51] <knome> pleia2, you ready to rock? ;)
[16:53] <charlie-tca> astraljava: any app or ?
[16:54] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I tried lshw
[16:54] <astraljava> But I can try others, if you like.
[16:54] <charlie-tca> already installed in Xubuntu
[16:55] <charlie-tca> Trying to install gedit using software center
[16:55] <charlie-tca> did not run apt-get update
[16:55] <charlie-tca> it's installing
[16:55] <charlie-tca> will try in terminal next
[16:59] <knome> are we ready to start the meeting? :)
[16:59] <astraljava> I thought you were about to rock.
[16:59]  * knome plugs the guitars
[16:59] <knome> ;)
[17:00] <astraljava> h*ll yeah!
[17:00]  * pleia2 waves
[17:00] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  1 17:00:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <knome> #topic Business carried on
[17:00] <knome> #subtopic Review the 'default shortcut keys' -blueprint
[17:01] <knome> since Sysi has been busy with army, we have partly taken care of this with ochosi 
[17:01] <knome> we are most probably going to postpone most xfce-shortcuts until P+1, but there are some application shortcuts we'd like to introduce
[17:02] <knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
[17:02] <knome> see bottom of the page
[17:02] <charlie-tca> Does anyone besides Unity use Super key shortcuts?
[17:03] <knome> i don't know. that's one of the controversial things about the xfce-shortcut keys, but i think super would fit well for application shortcuts
[17:03] <kurapika> super+T for terminal is so great ;)
[17:04] <knome> you don't "miss" anything even if you didn't have the super key
[17:04] <knome> and, the idea is of course to bind the keys to exo-launchers, not the specific apps
[17:04] <charlie-tca> But if you used ctrl or alt, anyone would have them?
[17:04] <knome> so they will follow the default apps
[17:05] <knome> charlie-tca, sure, except those keys might have overlapping shortcuts, like alt+f opens the file-menu
[17:05] <kurapika> oups :P
[17:07] <knome> anyway, one more week for feedback
[17:07] <knome> #info Anyone: give feedback about proposed default shortcuts
[17:07] <knome> we aren't in hurry with decisions, but i wouldn't want to postpone this over and over again
[17:08] <knome> #topic Team updates
[17:08] <knome> #subtopic Packaging and Development
[17:08] <knome> micahg, mr_pouit 
[17:08] <knome> (and please use #info)
[17:10] <knome> #info The Shimmer Project themes are about to be moved from murrine-themes to shimmer-themes
[17:11] <micahg> #info mr_pouit fixed some xfce4-power-manager bugs
[17:12] <micahg> #info there's an updated synaptic with some bug fixes from Debian, but it failed to build, I'll fix it after alpha2
[17:12] <micahg> #info new ristretto with bugfixes syncd
[17:13] <micahg> #info if there are any package version  updates people want, Feature Freeze is Feb 16, so ideally we should do it before then
[17:13] <micahg> ..
[17:13] <knome> thanks micahg :)
[17:14] <knome> #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing and Documentation
[17:14] <knome> charlie-tca, Unit193 
[17:15] <charlie-tca> Testing the Alpha2 milestones this week
[17:15] <charlie-tca> Desktop images are being rebuilt now. Alternates may be rebuilt yet
[17:15] <knome> #info Testing the Alpha2 milestones this week
[17:15] <charlie-tca> Need help getting these tested as they rebuild. The newest ones should be 20120201.1
[17:16] <knome> #info Desktop images are being rebuilt now. Alternates may be rebuilt yet
[17:16] <knome> #info Need help getting these tested as they rebuild. The newest ones should be 20120201.1
[17:16]  * astraljava will try to help with that
[17:16] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:16] <knome> charlie-tca, is there anything you need help from the developer/artwork/etc side?
[17:16] <astraljava> ..
[17:16] <Unit193> Just synced them tooll {..}
[17:17] <knome> charlie-tca, also, is maybe-ubiquity ubuntu-branded? (do you need that to be xubuntu-branded)
[17:17] <charlie-tca> We need help getting the tests done. I don't think anything matters much if we don't get them tested
[17:17] <charlie-tca> We don't need anything changed until after alpha2 now. Then, yes, maybe-ubiquity is purple
[17:17] <knome> yeah, agreed. are you far behind?
[17:18] <charlie-tca> We are at no tests done if everything gets rebuilt
[17:18] <knome> mmh :/
[17:18] <knome> true
[17:18] <knome> #action knome to look at maybe-ubiquity retheming
[17:18] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to look at maybe-ubiquity retheming
[17:19] <charlie-tca> and we have until what, about 3AM UTC to be done
[17:20] <knome> mmh
[17:21] <knome> i'm trying to get maybe-ubiquity rethemed before FF, can't promise more
[17:21] <knome> so before that, no need to worry about that
[17:21] <scott-work> mr_pouit: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/xubuntu-default-settings/precise/view/head:/debian/xubuntu-default-settings.preinst
[17:21] <scott-work> mr_pouit: shoudl the last section see if "12.04" is the equivalent release?
[17:21] <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Artwork and Website
[17:21] <knome> pleia2! :)
[17:21] <pleia2> oh goodie :)
[17:22] <pleia2> so, big news on the website front!
[17:22] <knome> use #info please ;)
[17:22] <pleia2> #info knome and I have finished up the edits required to go live with the new wordpress website
[17:22] <pleia2> #info there are some content edits we may want, but I don't want to wait on those because there will probably always be content edits
[17:23] <pleia2> so it's time to decide, want to go live with wp.xubuntu.org replacement for the old drupal xubuntu.org? :)
[17:23] <pleia2> not sure if we should discuss, vote, or what
[17:23] <knome> #info some content edits todo: developertools/, press/, about/
[17:23] <knome> if anybody has objections, please let them out now
[17:24] <knome> if there is no objections, we will let the IS move the site to production
[17:24] <charlie-tca> Is it really a question, since we have not been updating the current site awaiting the new one?
[17:24] <pleia2> charlie-tca: I've kept up with important edits on both sites
[17:24] <knome> not really, except if there is some clear shortcomings on the new site
[17:24] <knome> or bugs that need fixed
[17:25] <pleia2> (bug fixes have gone to both, for instance)
[17:25] <knome> but there should be none, unless we've both missed them
[17:25] <charlie-tca> But we have been waiting a year or so to get the new site up?
[17:25] <knome> yes, and now we're finally pretty much bugfree and ready ;)
[17:25] <pleia2> we've been working on it for over 8 months, yeah
[17:25] <knome> i'm all for pushing it to production
[17:26] <charlie-tca> +1
[17:26] <knome> #action pleia2 to create a ticket in RT for releasing the new website!
[17:26] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to create a ticket in RT for releasing the new website!
[17:26] <pleia2> great :)
[17:26] <knome> pleia2, if you have time after the meeting, we could go through some issues with the site
[17:26] <knome> (content)
[17:27] <pleia2> maybe
[17:27] <knome> ok :)
[17:27] <pleia2> are we doing an alpha2?
[17:27] <charlie-tca> Doesn't that depend on getting it tested?
[17:27] <pleia2> if so, we need at least some very basic release text for the site
[17:28] <knome> i can help working on that text
[17:28] <charlie-tca> We do not have time to run upgrade tests and all the mandatory tests required, since it will be an hour minimum before we have the images now
[17:28] <pleia2> and a2 is tomorrow
[17:29] <knome> hmm. what do you think?
[17:30] <knome> what was it why we had the respin?
[17:30] <charlie-tca> Must be done by 1400 UTC 2 feb
[17:30] <pleia2> we can continue this discussion later, I was just bringing it up from site/marketing side since I'd need text if we are releasing
[17:30] <knome> pleia2, you free to work on the text as well?
[17:32] <pleia2> ok
[17:32] <pleia2> I mean yeah
[17:32] <knome> #action knome and pleia2 to prepare writing an alpha2 release announcement with others if needed
[17:32] <meetingology> ACTION: knome and pleia2 to prepare writing an alpha2 release announcement with others if needed
[17:32] <knome> so, artwork
[17:32] <charlie-tca> o/
[17:32] <knome> charlie-tca, m?
[17:33] <charlie-tca> for the release notes... Installing from the cd menu is failing, however, allowing the cd to spin until it stops at "try Xubuntu" "Install Xubuntu" lets it work
[17:33] <charlie-tca> for the desktop images
[17:33] <charlie-tca> ..
[17:33] <pleia2> thanks charlie-tca 
[17:33] <knome> thanks :)
[17:34] <knome> #info there is a wallpaper draft at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft9.png
[17:34] <knome> #info any feedback is welcome in the following week
[17:35] <knome> #info if everything seems fine, we'll formally decide about using the wallpaper in the meeting next week
[17:36] <knome> #subtopic General updates
[17:36] <knome> any general updates?
[17:38] <knome> ok, none
[17:38] <knome> #topic Announcements
[17:38] <knome> #info Xubuntu LTS proposal for 3-year LTS releases is accepted.
[17:38] <knome> #topic Other business
[17:38] <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
[17:39] <knome> #action GridCube to gather a list of problems with QA tracker
[17:39] <meetingology> ACTION: GridCube to gather a list of problems with QA tracker
[17:39] <knome> is there any, since there hasn't been an update?
[17:39] <knome> #info This action item will be removed in the next meeting if no issues are raised.
[17:41] <knome> #info knome to keep investigating possibilities of getting Ubiquity "application sets" included is done - astraljava is working on it
[17:41] <knome> #action micahg or mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise
[17:41] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg or mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise
[17:41] <knome> i suppose we know this soon...
[17:41] <knome> #action micahg to look at the thunderbird button issue
[17:41] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at the thunderbird button issue
[17:42] <knome> #action ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
[17:42] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
[17:42] <knome> carried
[17:42] <micahg> I don't think we have a choice but to use 4.8.x
[17:43] <knome> ...aaaand the website stuff is sorted out :)
[17:43] <knome> micahg, i suppose ochosi wanted to know some specific lib versions, but he can follow-up with you on that
[17:43] <knome> any other business we'd like to raise?
[17:44] <knome> err, right
[17:45] <knome> #info Meeting next week is postponed to 18UTC.
[17:45] <knome> #action knome to inform the devel ML about the changes
[17:45] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to inform the devel ML about the changes
[17:45] <knome> -s :P
[17:45] <knome> #nedmeeting
[17:45] <knome> #endmeeting
[17:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  1 17:45:29 2012 UTC.  
[17:45] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-02-01-17.00.moin.txt
[17:45] <knome> #nedflanders
[17:45] <knome> thanks
[17:45] <pleia2> :)
[17:45] <charlie-tca> Thanks for chairing, knome 
[17:45] <madnick> :)
[17:45] <knome> thanks for attending
[17:45] <knome> madnick, heh, hey
[17:45] <Unit193> Now he shows u[
[17:45] <madnick> i was here all along lol
[17:46]  * knome will update the minutes
[17:46] <Unit193> I made a comment, or two
[17:46] <astraljava> Hey! I was here, too. Put that up there, as well!
[17:46] <knome> :P
[17:46] <knome> astraljava, you contributed two lines
[17:47] <astraljava> Oh.
[17:47] <astraljava> dang
[17:47] <Unit193> Unit193 (1)
[17:48] <Unit193> Well, going to resync the images soon enough it seems
[17:54] <knome> meeting minutes are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[17:56] <pleia2> ticket submitted :) #19245
[17:57] <knome> yup! great
[17:57] <knome> pleia2, so, http://wp.xubuntu.org/press/
[17:57] <knome> pleia2, you okay with changing that to have subpages, like http://wp.xubuntu.org/press/11.10/ ?
[17:58] <pleia2> aaand meeting notes tweeted
[17:58] <pleia2> knome: oh yeah, that's fine
[17:58] <knome> (i can do that, just wanted to check with you)
[17:58] <knome> okay great
[17:58] <knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/developertools/ still needs reviewing/feedback
[17:58] <knome> haven't had much time to think about it
[17:58]  * pleia2 nods
[17:59] <pleia2> I need to run downstairs for some breakfast, brb
[17:59] <knome> and what about http://wp.xubuntu.org/about/ ? should we take some time in the near future to review the draft by beardygnome
[18:12] <pleia2> it'll need to be expanded upon a lot, there is only a very basic draft before the proposal about comparing to proprietary OSes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Drafts
[18:13] <GridCube> hello charlie-tca 
[18:13] <GridCube> so you can not install xubuntu in any other language than english then?
[18:14] <charlie-tca>   No, when the cd stops, you can pick a language, then pick whether to try or install
[18:15] <charlie-tca> You just don't go to the cd menu anymore
[18:15] <GridCube> oh... ok
[18:15] <GridCube> will try it again then
[18:16] <charlie-tca> When you pick a language on that screen it stops at, the installer changes to the language picked
[18:16] <GridCube> i dont understand
[18:18] <charlie-tca> Let it go until it stops, then pick the language on the left side. That should change the installer language
[18:18] <GridCube> it just boots into the live cd
[18:19] <GridCube> there are no options if i dont press any key on the cd
[18:19] <GridCube> there is this keyboard icon next to an accessibilty logo, then waits then boots the live session
[18:20] <knome> pleia2, press/ done :)
[18:20] <charlie-tca> don't hit any keys on that screen. It should stop in a minute, with languages on the left, and two choices, try or install
[18:21] <pleia2> knome: much better!
[18:21] <knome> yeah
[18:22] <GridCube> charlie-tca: nope, it goes to a >Xubuntu 12.04 [· · · ·] and stays like that for a long, long time
[18:23] <GridCube> and now it got to live session
[18:24] <charlie-tca> it should stop. it does go to Xubuntu 12.04... for a while, yes. but it should have stopped 
[18:26] <GridCube> ooooo D: 
[18:27] <GridCube> 10 minutes to get the same as the thing you got in 5seconds of booting before
[18:27] <GridCube> this is progress!
[18:28] <charlie-tca> yup
[18:28] <charlie-tca> if it doesn't stop before the live desktop, that is a bug in VBox
[18:28] <GridCube> ok i got to the selection thing now, it did not happen last week
[18:29] <GridCube> but its really slow
[18:31] <charlie-tca> GridCube: might have to increase the video memory or ram
[18:32] <charlie-tca> I been running hardware tests here. My VBox machines use 64MB video and 500mb ram
[18:34] <charlie-tca> alternate images are up, still waiting for new desktop images
[18:36] <GridCube> im zsyncking alternate now, but its slow, the old desktop images do not have network on vbox
[18:36] <GridCube> charlie-tca: i gave this box almost 1gb of ram
[18:38] <charlie-tca> should be working then
[18:40] <GridCube> oh, but i have only 12mb of video ram :P
[18:41] <charlie-tca> That's the slowdown then :(
[18:42] <Unit193> I found it actually faster since it bypasses maybe-ubquity :P
[18:43] <charlie-tca> Unit193: but GridCube has not been able to get the installs to work by using the cd menu
[18:43] <GridCube> i don't like this thing, this mayby ubiquity
[18:44] <Unit193> I didn't get it with that little VRam
[18:44] <olbi> hello :D
[18:44] <GridCube> hola olbi :)
[18:44] <olbi> who will be on FOSDEM? :0
[18:44] <Unit193> I'm not really fond of it either, it's basically the same as the old system just has added resource usage
[18:45] <olbi> I fly at Friday evening
[18:45] <olbi> and want make interview with you guys :D
[18:46] <olbi> in front of camera :)
[18:46] <charlie-tca> olbi: I don't know that we have anyone scheduled for FOSDEM
[18:47] <GridCube> olbi: i think people at xfce will be going
[18:48] <astraljava> ochosi will be there.
[18:49]  * Unit193 will not be
[18:51]  * charlie-tca will not be, either
[18:51]  * GridCube lives in argentina, and has no idea what you people is talking about
[18:51] <charlie-tca> pleia2: release note: Xubuntu upgrade testing not done for alpha2 
[18:54] <pleia2> ok, started collecting notes for the announcement here: Installing from the cd menu is failing, however, allowing the cd to spin until it stops at "try Xubuntu" "Install Xubuntu" lets it work
[18:54] <pleia2> gah
[18:54] <pleia2> Installing from the cd menu is failing, however, allowing the cd to spin until it stops at "try Xubuntu" "Install Xubuntu" lets it work
[18:54] <pleia2> fail at paste
[18:55] <pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LAJrffm6R63TIGnNBKaBpDMaAevAScIrzNw1ibBpEjI/edit
[18:55] <charlie-tca> yup
[18:55] <pleia2> there we go
[18:55] <pleia2> anyone should be able to edit that
[18:55] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will try to remember to add anything else there
[19:34] <charlie-tca> new desktop images are up
[19:38] <GridCube> im still installing the old ones :(
[19:38] <GridCube> so i cannot report them?
[19:39] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Apparently ubiquity crashing at installation makes further package installations not working, too. A fresh live session is able to install packages.
[19:40] <charlie-tca> GridCube: need to sync again
[19:40] <GridCube> :(
[19:40] <charlie-tca> reporting bugs with them will make the bug people ask if you will try the latest image
[19:40] <GridCube> see this is a problem for the qa tracker
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Why? it shows the latest image
[19:41] <GridCube> i already started the install, it takes hours to zsync
[19:41] <GridCube> and to install
[19:41] <charlie-tca> That is not a tracker issue, though
[19:41] <GridCube> but im doing a test on an image and then i can not report it because it has changed
[19:41] <charlie-tca> I have the same issue here. Respins do happen often during the milestone testing
[19:42] <GridCube> i have a eta of 300minutes for the alternate image now
[19:42] <charlie-tca> That is not a tracker issue, though. Any time the image changes, the report is invalid
[19:43] <GridCube> yeah, well, but then what we do is useless
[19:43] <charlie-tca> It doesn't matter where it is tracked, reports using the old image don't count
[19:45] <GridCube> alkisg: it might just take a long long time
[19:45] <charlie-tca> We have always tried to get most of the serious bugs fixed for milestones. Daily testing is different, and we don't push new images with each fix
[19:45] <GridCube> also today's images have been updated for some reasons so you might need to update them and try again
[19:46] <alkisg> GridCube: I think I'll try starting over with alpha-1, and upgrading from there...
[19:46] <alkisg> I just downloaded the daily CD an hour ago - you mean I should wait until tomorrow?
[19:47] <astraljava> GridCube: That is called a QA process. And you're starting to get a feel of why coders loathe QA folks with a passion. :D
[19:47] <astraljava> j/k, of course
[19:47] <GridCube> :D
[19:47] <alkisg> About the time, it's been 20 minutes already, in a single step, with no cpu/disk/network use at all, so I suspend it's just blocked
[19:48] <alkisg> I also tried clicking on the [Skip] ubiquity button, but it's not responding
[19:49] <GridCube> alkisg: update the image to the latest one, it got realeased i guess a few minutes ago
[19:49] <GridCube> alkisg: you know how to use zsync?
[19:50] <alkisg> GridCube: I've used it in the past, but I think it'll take me more to set it up again than to re-download from scratch :)
[19:50] <GridCube> not really
[19:51] <GridCube> alkisg: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/206/builds/11157/downloads
[19:51] <alkisg> Ty, let me try it...
[19:52] <GridCube> anyway i just killed my test install and im zsyncking again, withmy speed, its eta is 405 minutes
[19:52] <charlie-tca> I don't know if you can get the link if you are not signed into qa tracker, but the images are at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[19:53] <charlie-tca> I know.
[19:53] <charlie-tca> GridCube: this is why there will be no upgrade tests for us this time, too
[19:53] <alkisg> ETA: 2 mins instead of my usual 15, much faster :)
[19:53] <charlie-tca> I don't have 12 hours to run the upgrades
[19:54] <GridCube> charlie-tca: im not signed in and i got the links
[19:55] <charlie-tca> Oh, okay. Wasn't sure that would work
[19:56] <GridCube> :)
[19:56] <charlie-tca> and, yes, it is a constant battle to keep up to date during these milestone testing days
[19:57] <charlie-tca> I have burned 16 cd-r's now in two days
[19:57] <charlie-tca> for 4 images
[20:00] <GridCube> jajaja
[20:00] <GridCube> the problem comes when you top 70kbs on the best case scenarios
[20:01] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I know. Maybe you could limit it to either alternate or desktop ?
[20:01] <charlie-tca> At least get one of them, instead of trying for both?
[20:02] <GridCube> im trying to do desktop because its the one giving more problems and knome asked to check ubiquity to see wrong stuff to report
[20:03] <GridCube> i don't understand the rationale behind the change of the language selection taken from boot to after it
[20:03] <charlie-tca> Okay. I am starting with the alternate images, let's see what we can get done on them.
[20:04] <GridCube> but i understand tho, that its pretty much the same, you just have to wait 10 minutes for it to load, but its the same
[20:06] <astraljava> Y U NO USE CD-RWs?
[20:14] <GridCube> \o/ believe it or not it suddendly went to 300kbs and syncked in less than a minute
[20:15] <charlie-tca> astraljava: because I haven't found anything reliable to reburn them more than one time
[20:18] <astraljava> Oh. That sucks. I've used this one DVD since Sept. '10. I consider myself real lucky, then.
[20:18] <charlie-tca> yup
[20:18] <charlie-tca> I can burn a cd-rw two times, then it is dead
[20:19] <charlie-tca> and that makes cd-r cheaper
[20:20] <astraljava> Crazy.
[20:25] <charlie-tca> GridCube: stopped another respin for ltsp installs
[20:26] <GridCube> you did?
[20:26] <GridCube> the new image still has the no mouse integration and no network on vbox
[20:28] <alkisg> The new daily live didn't help either, still stucks at "removing coflicting OS files"... /me will try with alpha-1
[20:29] <alkisg> Ah, or let me try vbox first, if that works I can just rsync the installation...
[20:29] <charlie-tca> That's a bug installing using VBox then. It works on hardware
[20:29] <GridCube> alkisg: alpha1 is deprecated, you should not install it
[20:30] <GridCube> charlie-tca: i think its the standard vbox integration thats broken
[20:30] <GridCube> because of the bug on the network too
[20:30] <charlie-tca> That's possible, the main thing is it will work on hardware
[20:31] <GridCube> oh, yes, i see what you mean, you can forceit to work in vbox too, it will take your mouse and keyboard, and you will need to recall it with the left ctrl but it works
[20:37] <alkisg> Hehe vbox mouse doesn't even work with the vbox embedded RDP server + ubuntu rdesktop client :D
[20:39]  * alkisg tries disabling the "[ ] Enable absolute pointing device"...
[20:40] <alkisg> Yeah it works fine that way
[20:40] <alkisg> And paravirtualized networking works too
[20:42] <charlie-tca> GridCube: alkisg seems to have the fix you need to test in VBox?
[20:43] <alkisg> ...and it passed the part where it hanged before. Maybe something in my partitioning made it hang.
[20:48] <GridCube> where is that option alkisg ?
[20:49] <GridCube> enable absolute pointing device?
[20:49] <GridCube> oh i see
[20:49] <GridCube> its greyed because im using that box now
[20:49] <alkisg> Under "System"
[20:49] <GridCube> but its installing
[20:49] <alkisg> Yes, you need to turn it off first
[20:49] <GridCube> yep
[20:49] <GridCube> well will try it later
[20:50] <alkisg> I'm trying that, and paravirtualized networking, both work fine
[20:50] <alkisg> It appears like I'll have a successfull installation in a few minutes, will need to transfer it over the network afterwards to the real hardware... :-/
[20:51] <GridCube> alkisg:  alpha2 its not proper for a daily use, you do know that?
[20:51] <alkisg> GridCube: I'm using ubuntu precise myself from alpha1 without any serious problem, is xubuntu in a much worse state?
[20:52] <alkisg> Because of the desktop environment changes in gnome, I want to test different environments on a daily basis, to decide which will suit us better (about 250 schools)
[20:52] <GridCube> no, its just not a good idea
[20:53] <charlie-tca> As long as you use it knowing it could break bad anytime, it's fine
[20:53] <GridCube> when 12.04 comes out yes, but it changes everyday a lot
[20:53] <alkisg> We need to decide that first, then debug our programs on that environment, and be ready for release... so it needs to be done before release
[20:53] <alkisg> Yeah sure no problem
[20:53] <GridCube> oh okay then :)
[20:53] <alkisg> I know what alpha means :)
[20:53] <GridCube> :D just making sure, you never know
[20:54] <alkisg> Indeed :)
[20:55] <charlie-tca> I agree with GridCube . We have too many installing alpha releases and complaining when they broke for more than a day
[20:55] <alkisg> How receptive is upstream xfce for small changes requested by communities? E.g. in LTSP we need "reboot" to set an xprop, if it detects "LTSP_CLIENT" in the current environment... LXDE accepted a patch we sent, gnome-session didn't...
[20:56] <charlie-tca> um, ltsp is broken on the images today, should be fixed by Friday's daily, though.
[20:56] <micahg> alkisg: upstream I think is pretty accepting
[20:56] <charlie-tca> Sometimes Xfce is very receptive, and sometimes not so much
[20:56] <micahg> but mr_pouit would know best
[20:57] <alkisg> Sounds nice. charlie-tca yes ltsp is broken in all daily cds
[20:59] <alkisg> Nope, got bitten by LP bug #870643
[21:01] <GridCube> flashplugin killed ltsp? O_O
[21:02] <alkisg> No no I meant in my xubuntu installation :D
[21:03]  * alkisg needed to put an empty paragraph between the two sentences to emphasize they're unrelated :D
[21:04] <alkisg> Although it's true that flash is one of the worst enemies of LTSP, it requires the most bandwidth + cpu
[21:04] <GridCube> i could imagine that, does html5 help there?
[21:06] <alkisg> The main problem is youtube... google-chrome has a nice decoder and can play the videos with low CPU, but firefox suffers
[21:06] <yofel> hi, how does xubuntu set the gtk3 theme? I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that for kubuntu and would like to know what the other DE's do
[21:07] <GridCube> yofel: don't really know, ochosi does that things :/
[21:11] <micahg> alkisg: umm, firefox should be able to play youtube HTML5 videos just fine
[21:12] <alkisg> micahg: I tested html5 about half a year ago, flash cpu usage = 40%, firefox usage = 45%, google-chrome cpu usage = 10%
[21:13] <alkisg> I don't know if there were any changes recently
[21:13] <micahg> there have been lots of changes in Firefox in the past 6 months
[21:13] <alkisg> Sounds good... I'll try it again when I get a chance
[21:13] <GridCube> at least 28 version numbers as well :P
[21:14] <micahg> alkisg: if there's a disparity, Mozilla would be interested in that, it's also easier to get fixes as anything that lands on trunk barring regressions is in the public's hands within 18 weeks
[21:16]  * alkisg visits youtube.com/html5 to test again... :)
[21:17] <alkisg> Nope, 50% cpu usage for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt8d3Shlfrg with html5 activated, on my lucid + firefox 9
[21:18] <alkisg> (without counting xorg)
[21:34] <micahg> alkisg: which version of chrome has better performance?
[21:35] <alkisg> micahg: google-chrome, I think, but it's been months since I did proper testing, so I'm not sure about the details, video format etc
[22:03] <baizon> Firefox 10 + youtube html5 is pretty nice :)
[22:35] <GridCUbe> ok
[22:35] <GridCUbe> updated the tracker
[22:36] <GridCUbe> it installed :)
[22:57] <ochosi> ahoy
[22:57] <ochosi> i guess i missed the meeting :)